Mini-Normal 2070 is done

[John Pierce Gantt]

Greetings. If my name is too long for you to type, you may call me JP Gantt or just JP.
Just don't call me JPG because I am a real life human being, not some pixelated piece of art.

With that said.

@Inferno390

, why are you bothered about the miller claim now instead of few hours before, when you placed a vote?

[John Pierce Gantt]

@JP: That was a throwaway vote to get into the RVS and the game. I had some stuff to do this morning, so I didn’t really have time to think about what was going on in-game and analyze the game state. I saw that there was a miller claim and it threw me a little, but I didn’t want to comment on it and start doing analysis that would push out if RVS until I had gotten a chance to look at everyone’s response to it.

Hmm, this awfully sounds like you were just testing the water.
How would people talking about miller claiming early help you figure out their alignments? Assuming that you intended to hold your analysis for this reason.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I’m confused by this question. How does people talking about ANYTHING early help figure out alignments other than by looking at how they respond? Isn’t that literally how you play this game?
And I actually analyze voting patterns and talking patterns. The miller claim itself is not what I would look at, but how people interacted with each other regarding it and what voting patterns emerged.

I was being specific about the whole miller situation. You saw the miller claim, and how people reacted to it already - either agreement or disagreement with the claim. Did you expect people to say other things than agreement/disagreement or the whole "miller claims at Day 1" theory?

(we lost a town game where this very thing happened)

I guess this explains Vorkuta's behavior.

At this point, NotAnAxeHole is close from being lynched, and if I understood correctly, for being a Canadian. Must be a rough life being a Canadian.

However much this sounds like parroting Tchill, refusing to speak your mind when we’re all trying to sort and analyze just looks like you’re trying to look active without doing anything. Which does not earn you town-points. It’d be one thing if you were trying to get a reaction out of people. But right now you’re just calling attention to yourself and then not following up on it. Not great.

I don't like this post, especially the "However much this sounds like parroting Tchill" part. It sounds like he is worried about his actions looking bad. I think town wouldn't care as much about what they say as long as they get their points accross?

Ok I see how it is
I called you out on your BS confscum claim and so you try to apply pressure to me
Lovely

When people have real reasons for calling me scum, let me know. I’ll be here waiting when they do.

Ah, the great "I'm not guilty; you have no proof."
This usually comes from guilty people.

VOTE: Inferno390

[John Pierce Gantt]

I gotta head out now so I'll address the rest later.

1) see, this is where I’m confused. I said in my very first response to you that I hadn’t address the miller claim yet because I hadn’t gotten the chance to read what everyone else had said in response to it. In case you missed it, there are a wide number of opinions right now as to whether it was true or not and/or why. What did I do wrong here?

I was asking you how would looking at people's opinion about the miller claim help you with sorting people, when the discussion is going to be all about theories, which doesn't give out people's alignments.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Other than RC I don't think anyone has a VALID reason.

[John Pierce Gantt]

2) Tchill just literally posted the same thing that my above post did, but in less words. I was recognizing that fact. I would understand if I had said “I don’t want to parrot people, but...”. That’s not what I did. If I was so worried about parroting people. I wouldn’t have said it at all?

It's not about the wording though. It's the fact that you had to say something about your action looking like parroting.
That shows self-consciousness, and I think that's more of a trait of Mafia than a trait of Town.
Also, you could have said it to look like Town, so talking about whether you would have posted that in the first place is moot.

3) This is a misrep of the situation. I called RC out on being vague and unhelpful play. He responds with quipped remark and what amounts to an OMGUS vote. Axe jumps on the wagon with nothing more than “Oh, RC is correct.” It’s not a matter of proof, it’s a matter of people trying to get a ride out of me instead of having a reason to vote me. This is me calling it out and saying I’m not going to take a crap wagon on page 4 seriously.

And this time it's about the wording. I think town would have worded what you said differently other than being overly cheeky about it.

[John Pierce Gantt]

This interaction pinged me, although I dont know what it pinged or who pinged it

Maybe it pinged for you because you viewed the whole post as an interaction when it really wasn't one?
Except for the first quote, they were just comments.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Okay, this makes sense.

Ah, the acceptance of defeat.
Guess I'm doing pretty well for my first game.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I'm taking a closer look at John Pierce Gantt's push there and I get the feeling he's trying to make Inferno look guilty rather than trying to figure Inferno's alignment out

I would say "making Inferno look guilty" is not really a right word but yes, that is basically what I'm doing.
If I think someone is Mafia, what is the point for me to have an argument with him otherwise?
I am doing it so that others can see my points and either tell me that I'm wrong (hopefully with a good reason) or agree with me.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Making someone look guilty means your're pushing fabricated evidence/points to fit your false narrative/end goal so I'm not sure if that's the word choice you want to go with @JPG, just saying.

I did say that it is not a good word to describe what I'm doing.

I think it's too early in the game to lock someone in as mafia and not want to talk to them.

I think Inferno can be town who made some suspect posts early on, that you quickly jumped on - in that case trying to argue about you if you're right that he

could

be mafia for those posts, or that it's more likely to come from mafia etc. is a waste of time. I thought the post he made talking about Vorkuta being town and the few after that looked more like town than scum.

There is no such thing as "too early to make a solid decision." It is all based on the contents given in the game, and I think there was enough contents for me to make a decision.
With that said, did I misread what you posted or are you saying that my points doesn't matter because you townread some of his posts?

When someone quotes a post, that is an interaction. Axe interacted with you and either their interaction or your original response pinged me. Not sure yet why

Ok, we had a different definitions of term in mind.

It kind of feels like John Pierce Gantt is softly defending Axe

?
The only time I mentioned Axe was that one joke thrown at him in my "interactions."

Actually, no. This looks bad. Why did you jump to me accusing you of scum interaction?

You said you couldn't figure out where and why my post felt weird so I was lending you a hand. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[John Pierce Gantt]

Admission is what I meant.
I don't know why I wrote acceptance, lmao.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Meanwhile:

I think Inferno's doing too much if he is scum at this point. he's protesting too hard, seems too annoyed by the process of it all. That's just the feeling I'm getting.

D1, 5, almost 6 pages in, I'm finding it hard to believe that we've got scum already, we'll see though. Could be wrong but all I have is my opinions at the moment.

I've read the argument/thoughts of how little value his posts have, slightly hypocritical considering a few of us fall to that at the moment. I'm guessing you've played with them before, is this what they do?

I would explain it but it's late night and it should be obvious what I'm trying to say with these quotes.

[John Pierce Gantt]

It's kinda funny because people are going "RC I don't believe you" and yet

none

of them bothered to respond to what I said about Inferno.

[John Pierce Gantt]

You know it's bad when even his kin ditches him.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Anyway

Davesaz and ruirui have no business pushing JPG right now as scum

Well I believe dave is voting me because he abhors Gantt chart.

[John Pierce Gantt]

@Axe, your PoE is coming from a already biased viewpoint. You’re clearly fitting the evidence (or lack of any) to validate what you want to believe.

You are trying to discredit Axe's opinions by calling his method faulty via bias, but calling him biased like that means you are viewing him as town though.
Mafias do not bias themselves; they lie and fabricate.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Admittedly it confuses me a bit that he said there is no point in having an argument with Inferno, when he is actually having an argument with Inferno, but maybe that was just wording (or wording fail on my side).

I think you missed my "otherwise" in that post.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I don't want to triple post but I can't not say this.

Why are people having so much problem with "confirmed scum" word? I took it as "This man is so scummy that he is basically confirmed scum" and everything falls into places very nicely.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I see it as being essentially the same as rc’s. You point out some word choices, right?

Word choices were only the starting part of my analysis. If I had to summarize my entire points with one sentence, it would be "Inferno is not reacting like how town would react in multiple given situations."

[John Pierce Gantt]

Well that's a weird series of replace outs.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Do you disagree with any of his townlist then?

[John Pierce Gantt]

Seems like axe and RC really tried to take control of the game with their push on inferno and then used ego to put those down who didn't see the "obv scum".

I think this is a bit too over-generalized view of the game. RC really only called one other person Mafia (you), and Axe stated very clearly that many of his reads were achieved via process of elimination.

RC sticks his neck out FIRST. axehole is right behind him after getting a few votes on himself and is JUST AS confident as RC. it's odd...

Neither player should be that confident. Then both agree that the only player pointing out they shouldn't be that confident that early is scum.

(when you result to "he's obv scum" after getting pressed for more explanation when you've only explained it once... Yeah, not a whole lot of reason there)

I, too, am very confident on my Inferno Mafia read. I just happen to list out my reasons.

Also is Stefan the only person axe has given a TR with not so good justification? Is that the plan? Tell everyone inferno is obv scum. Call anyone scum who opposes that theory then call everyone else town so you can lynch the opposed?

Again, overly generalized.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Axe is coming off as egotistical, refuses to go in depth about reads, scoffs at those who don't see how obvious things are and has handed RC a hard TR due to (well its a bad look if inferno flips town which would keep RC from doing this, regardless of how confident RC is in his own reads) then has proceeded to hand TR's out among others who fit the narrative based on PoE and mostly gut read material.

Also I think this post lacks a conclusion.
Does this make Axe town or Mafia?

[John Pierce Gantt]

Meanwhile, I am very sad that I am being called JPG despite this:

Greetings. If my name is too long for you to type, you may call me JP Gantt or just JP.
Just don't call me JPG because I am a real life human being, not some pixelated piece of art.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Day 2 is going to be very interesting.

[John Pierce Gantt]

This is very true. I'll make sure to give Cowbells the stinkeye if Inferno flips town.

What is your stance on Inferno?

[John Pierce Gantt]

Any idea on a 3rd scum JPG? Because your erza case caught my eye and I liked it.

This is funny, because that Erza "case" was the one that I did not write any explanation about.

Anyway, I don't know yet. I have some potential candidates, but they are not solid at all.

With that said,

I'm fine with an inferno lynch today.

Then you should vote Inferno too.

[John Pierce Gantt]

poor choice of terminology

I doubt it, because

a) Inferno was very clear on his trajectory, and it was clearly about Axe being biased.
b) Inferno was very heavy on using various terminologies. I doubt someone who likes using heavy terms will make a poor choice of one.

My conjecture on this is that Inferno got caught up on discrediting Axe so much that he didn't think through what he was posting.

Also his string of posts from 219 to 223 doesn't read to me like scum who's in anti-spew mode.

219-222, maybe, although I can see both ways.
223 is literally mudslinging, however.

[John Pierce Gantt]

To elaborate on 219-222 being seen both ways, Mafia in that situation would be desperate enough to look like town as much as possible to get out of a lynch. Town would do that too, with exactly the same reason sometimes.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Well I figured that you were doing something like that but I do think Inferno is Mafia so you'll have to explain it to me a bit about it.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Can you visualize that a bit for me?
Because I find it hard to believe.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I will, once I try and get people to believe in my JP wagon.

Upon rereading his ISO, I find myself shaking my head at every other one of his comments, WHICH IS BAD because he's also mostly engaging Tchill and Inferno.
Like I don't understand how I like my scumreads' answers/defense more than JP's posts/questions.

If I spent most of my time engaging Tchill and Inferno as Mafia, what would be the reason?

[John Pierce Gantt]

what would be the reason?

Do I look like someone with enough experience/creativity to properly answer that question?
I'll try though. Off the top of my head:
-This bussing thing that people like to do.
-Distancing, so that when/if either of the wagons diffuse, you can safely keep on ignoring them while trying to push mislynches
-Gambitting (I actually don't know what the word means, but it seems like a good answer)

Hmm, I see.
Now my next question is: during my time I was active, who could I have interacted with?

[John Pierce Gantt]

By the way I am currently thinking of {Inferno, Erza, one of chenn/dave}.
I will also quote this after the game ends if I'm correct on all three.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Jp I dunno.. again mostly tone plus have they actually brought anything other than parroting?

This is actually very sad to hear because I'm pretty sure I gave people inspirations which is the direct opposite of parroting.

[John Pierce Gantt]

*looks at your ISO*
I mean... you quote people's arguments when you reply to them... so am I missing the question here?

Yes. I want you to read the context around the time I was making posts. Look more than my ISO. Who were around when I was posting?

[John Pierce Gantt]

.bmp

Joint Photographic Expert Group.

OK, I give up.
Call me whatever you people want to call me.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Who were around when I was posting?

I mean what's your point?
I don't see how the potential lack of real-time interaction that you're alluding to takes away from my case.

I'm assuming you have a follow up or you are waiting for me to discover something along the lines of "oh JP and inferno were never online at the same time"?

Not quite that (also that would not prove anything at all) but you are indeed correct that I want you to discover something.
You are better than I initially thought.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Anyway, I'll cut to the chase.
Basically, aside from Inferno, which I clearly did to make his Mafia-ness known, I have engaged with pretty much everyone who threw something at me. That's why I told you to look around the time when I was active.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Let's all be nice folks. I don't want to see the game go downhill.

I'll post something later that can hopefully dissuade this playstyle clash.

[John Pierce Gantt]

The last few pages are very very spicy.
I will process them soon.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Oh yeah, I have a question for both of you, Tchill and Axe.

Who are your guesses on team right now?

[John Pierce Gantt]

+ How confident are you on them right now?

[John Pierce Gantt]

+ How confident are you on them right now?

My top scum reads are milkcarton and Tchill13

What about Erza?

[John Pierce Gantt]

Didn't you agree with my case?

[John Pierce Gantt]

Who's Tyrion?

[John Pierce Gantt]

Oh yeah, I have a question for both of you, Tchill

and Axe

.

Who are your guesses on team right now?

+ How confident are you on them right now?

[John Pierce Gantt]

What happened to your Mafia-read on Inferno?

[John Pierce Gantt]

What happened to your Mafia-read on Inferno?

It vanished. *poof* no the way RC played that changed my read on inferno.

That's interesting.

Because

I think Inferno's doing too much if he is scum at this point. he's protesting too hard, seems too annoyed by the process of it all. That's just the feeling I'm getting.

D1, 5, almost 6 pages in, I'm finding it hard to believe that we've got scum already, we'll see though. Could be wrong but all I have is my opinions at the moment.

I've read the argument/thoughts of how little value his posts have, slightly hypocritical considering a few of us fall to that at the moment. I'm guessing you've played with them before, is this what they do?

There is one prerequisite in order for this post to be posts from Mafia.

• Inferno390 is Mafia

[John Pierce Gantt]

Anyway, I got what I want, so I'll actually read the last few pages now.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Oh, in 490, I meant that in order for Erza needs to be Mafia, Inferno needs to be Mafia too.
Basically pointing out the faultiness of Tchill's reads.

[John Pierce Gantt]

i mean

axehole is scum

Yeah he's not even trying right now.
You weren't kidding when you said he was "openwolfing."

[John Pierce Gantt]

I'm cop, lynch me.

Ok.

Vote: NotAnAxehole

[John Pierce Gantt]

I'm fairly certain theres at least 1 scum between jp, rc, axe, and tchill. So that's great. If I had to vote one of them right now it would be axe, but I dont trust my read there because its influenced by tone and theres a few things that dont match up with my internal logic. I dont think inferno has absolutely screamed scum since their first few posts but they havent pkayed well as town either. I do think they over reacted to their push, but that's nai atm. Will probably influence my read later post someone flipping. Honestly, I dont get the push on tchill. Seems more actually annoyed town than inferno did and RC tred inferno for that. Jp I dunno.. again mostly tone plus have they actually brought anything other than parroting? If they were lurking that would be one thing, but they post a good bit. Vork, what have they said scummy, someone whose tring them, what do you find good about them?

I think this post was a pretty decent towny post. He definitely misrepresented me there, but I simply don't feel like he've done it on purpose.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Number of people in the pool literally does not matter.
It's his streamlined thought process that counts.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I don't really think Vork is Mafia.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Vote: Tchill13

[John Pierce Gantt]

I don't really think Vork is Mafia.

Why? What makes you think he is town?

I had a brief interaction with him earlier.
(From here to here)

It stemmed from this post he made.

I will, once I try and get people to believe in my JP wagon.

Upon rereading his ISO, I find myself shaking my head at every other one of his comments, WHICH IS BAD because he's also mostly engaging Tchill and Inferno.
Like I don't understand how I like my scumreads' answers/defense more than JP's posts/questions.

Which, by the way, is a direct counter to those who are arguing that he is just sheeping the seal.
He formed his own read and although it was a terrible one, actually attempted to case his read before sheeping the seal.
I think that's towny.

With that said

were scum.

Can confirm, and hence my

somewhat

unwavering faith and loyalty to your crusade.

Anyway, I'll cut to the chase.

I concede.
I blame the fact that I wasn't there for the interactions, but had to quickly scroll through them when I got online.

I don't think this is how Mafia would drop their case. Once proven wrong, he dropped it clean, and admitted his wrongness. I think Mafia would try to be more resilient about it?

Although even without this, his sheeping of a player he admires and his very early miller paranoia just bleeds town.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Any competent group of town makes sure the

Miller

Ascetic is lynched before lylo if we ever reach that point. I propose we carry on as normal and if we're pushed to that brink THEN we with it.

Yes it's essentially dead man walking.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Oh look mod took a pagetop.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Ok, serious purely theoretical question. No snark, no implied reads, no nothing.

Why are you in such a rush to lynch obv scum? If I'm obv scum ppl will figure it out before the end of the day phase right?

You are, using your own terms, a dead man walking.
Is there a reason why we should not lynch you?

[John Pierce Gantt]

Thanks.

@Axe:
.|.

I have a better one to use.

凸

Unfortunately, you'll have to copypasta it.

[John Pierce Gantt]

@Mod

literally nobody voted since last page. Like why even VC

Chill out, dude. Let him do his job in peace.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I do think it's pretty weird that he waited this long, but also I think ascetic is a weird fakeclaim as scum here (but maybe that's why he would make it)

It does make sense for him to hold it for this long.
He thought ascetic claim would clear (or "clear") him.
It's just that it doesn't.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Dude it wouldn't matter WHO you were pushing. I've already pointed out that you get town points for pushing this so hard once one of us flips town. Because scum wouldn't be so loud day one on an ASSOCIATION push of all things. This is why you're pushing it the way you are. You're scum wanting town cred for doing something scum wouldn't normally do. You could do this push on inferno, RuiRui or whoever. I'd still be singing the same song.

Question.
You're stating that the seal is doing bunch of town looking things as mafia for town credit.
Why can't the seal just be town?

[John Pierce Gantt]

RC just said "everything else is obv fake claim I HAD to fake ascetic"

Actually he've been stating that your ascetic claim is real.

[John Pierce Gantt]

So what do I gain by claiming ascetic as scum?

Because it was clear that you thought claiming ascetic would give you townpoints?

[John Pierce Gantt]

Nah, it's a lynch.

Inferno390(2)-John Pierce Gantt

You see this, right?

[John Pierce Gantt]

Anyway, I was just kidding.
That 2 was a mod error.

Shh, no need to point out how shitty I am.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Maybe you should have let it play out a bit more?

Mod posted a votecount.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Well that's a real hammer.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Greetings. I have been quite busy today but I did read up, and there was one thing that caught my eyes.

@Inferno:
Why did you leave your vote on Axe after his cop claim?

I believe this is not what town would ask.

VOTE: Skellen

[John Pierce Gantt]

I still think Vorkuta is town because I think if he was Mafia he still would have tried to kill the seal despite what happened yesterday.
Of course, the other explanation is "they are Mafia together," but I highly doubt it because I think the seal is quite transparently town.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Simply put, I thought your reaction test made sense, I like how you approached tchill + axe case, and your entrance to Day 2 didn't come off as Mafia-apologetic-in-attempt-to-preemptively-thwart-suspicions to me.
Also, why can I not call you a seal when you have been calling me many different names?

[John Pierce Gantt]

I would quote and stuff but I'm just really tired tonight.

EDIT: because your avatar is a seal.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Why do you think this is worth a vote on Skellen? How is it not something town would ask?

The question is fishing for cop, but blatantly.

Why is Vorkuta more likely to kill RadiantCowbells than any other player?

Because I believe that Vorkuta's crazy strong admiration of the seal is real.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Sorry, that should be "but not blatantly."

[John Pierce Gantt]

I don't see how this is rolefishing. Axe claimed cop. What normally happens in a scenario where someone claims an important role like that is everyone unvotes them. I didn't. It's a fair question.

In normal situation, it would be correct.
However, the situation this time was different.
Axe was clearly lying about being a cop, and you were not the only person who voted him after his cop claim.
I found it weird that she decided to focus on you for that as well.

[John Pierce Gantt]

My apologies. I had a busy weekend.
I will read up shortly.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Fair point. Basically I agree with that. My assumption however was that scum would also like to get a PR lynched, particularly if he played as terrible as Axe did at the end of D1, so I was looking for noticable changes between the Axe and tchill wagons knowing that both were town. When Axe was with 5:3 in front, so an Axe lynch was more likely, Inferno was still on Axe as scum and tchill as frustrated and honest town. Later he was sold on scum!tchill after tchill also had roleclaimed and it was 4:4, but ultimately hesitated because of RC's gambit earlier. Since a cop would probabaly have for scum higher priority than an ascetic it looked to me like he was trying to have it both ways as long as possible, therefore I asked specifically Inferno.

Ok. I will withhold my answer until I check something.

=============================================

Ok that logic debacle was painful to read.

I read that Skellen is somewhat confirmed town so I will unvote.

UNVOTE:

So if I didn't miss anything, then the somewhat confirmed people (and thus I shouldn't need to worry about today) are {Skellen, Egix96, Jingle?}
My strongest townread in this game is {seal}
I strongly townread {Vorkuta}

=============================================

I believe chennisden is one of the hot topic right now

so I shall discuss him as well.

On the hindsight, there is actually not much for me to comment on, other than his progress of this game today which I can see as him doing it as any alignment.

Jingle and Milk scum are two different worlds. Of course they aren't scum together

That said tmck has been more scummy

VOTE: themilkcartonkid

@chennisden

When did you arrive at this conclusion, by the way?

==============================================

themilkcartonkid is also a hot topic so I read his posts today in more detail. Overall, he was arguing sematics(?) with chennisden mostly, but I did find this post towny.

Eh, fuck lowkey reactions.

Egix crumbed loyal hard and I want to see if he dies tonight because of it.

one person was voting him

you did NOT need to out like that

Both me and my neighbor noticed it immediately. It was a sloppy crumb.

Dont add me to the neighborhood then...

I wish I had words to describe how this post looked townish while chennisden's "stop outing power roles" did not (not calling that post mafia posting; just not townish).
I guess "sincere" would be a correct word to use in this scenario?

[John Pierce Gantt]

Also funnily enough, even though the seal being wrong on both yesterday should have made my mafia read on Inferno stronger than yesterday, I'm just not feeling it today.
I think I did like his #955 and that's maybe why I don't feel strong on my Inferno read from Day 1.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Why do you think that Jingle is confirmed? Just curious

I thought he said he was. I actually wasn't quite sure so I put a ? next to his name so I can double check after posting it.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Hmm, I guess I saw a mirage. I thought I read something about him being confirmed as well.

Although, I think of him as slight town as of now due to how he handled the whole neighbor thing.
Also I don't think mafia Jingle would blatantly out the Egix royal crumb like that when he could have just posted that to his Mafia buddies.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Hmm, if I count out everyone who I think are town even slightly, I get {Ruirui, davesaz, chennisden}, unless Skellen is actually not confirmed. I see no value in continuing with Skellen if they are softly confirmed however.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Hmm if people are reaching similar conclusion as mine, then this game may be this easy.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Okay, the only thing that makes me hesitate about JP is the question mark thing with jingle. That seems like something someone without actual info would do. I'm feeling chen, inferno, jp as my associative team. If anyone flips town in that then screw all of that. But for vanity sake I'm calling it

I have no info on Jingle, so don't let it hesitate your thoughts.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I am shurgging off the "safe reads" part since I believe I explained my townread on everyone else not on the list beforehand and I haven't been questioned for them.

[John Pierce Gantt]

(Well, some reads were based on that they are somewhat confirmed and not based on my pure reads, but they still count as townreads for me.)

[John Pierce Gantt]

Ha

[John Pierce Gantt]

I've prodded Skellen. Look at me, doing mod stuff.

How about dave?

he was on v/la till Sunday so his prod timer is different.

[John Pierce Gantt]

There's moderate suspicion on chen/JP.
Chen suspects you and me.
RC suspects me.

And I somewhat suspect chennisden.
This completes the circle, I believe.

I think jpg is scum

I don't think he is Mafia, but I admit, I may be more than slightly biased with this opinion of mine.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Hmm it may be fun to ask this question.

@themilkcartonkid

, let's suppose that I was lynched and was revealed as town. How much would your list change from your current one?

[John Pierce Gantt]

Let's hear about those theories. It would be more interesting to read than your current "I think these people are Mafia and none of their alignments were revealed yet."

[John Pierce Gantt]

I took out everyone who I've townread even the slightest and was left with {Ruirui, dave, chen}.
I am voting neither currently because I have plenty of time and I want to verify my "leftover list."

[John Pierce Gantt]

Tier 0 - No Description Needed

• John Pierce Gantt

Tier 0.5 - Soft Confirmed

• Skellen
  
• Egix96

Tier 1 - Strongest Townread

• Seal

Tier 2 - Strong Townread

• Vorkuta

Tier 3 - Decent Townread

• themilkcartonkid
  
• Jingle

Tier 4 - Weak Townread

• Inferno390

Tier 5 - The Leftovers

• chennisden
  
• RuiRui
  
• davesaz

[John Pierce Gantt]

Note: Without the "Soft Confirmed," Skellen would be in Tier 5 and Egix96 would be in Tier 3.

[John Pierce Gantt]

If you're going to push me as conftown l will just selfvote and play in other games.

Color me confused.

[John Pierce Gantt]

[John Pierce Gantt]

That means he reads the bottom three as town and the rest as mafia.

[John Pierce Gantt]

One of them is considering you as a Mafia.
What do I process that information with what you just said now?

[John Pierce Gantt]

How do I*

[John Pierce Gantt]

I think I waited long enough for an answer but he's not showing up here despite posting elsewhere last night, so I'm going to

Vote: chennisden

[John Pierce Gantt]

I don't really think Vork is Mafia.

Why? What makes you think he is town?

I had a brief interaction with him earlier.
(From here to here)

It stemmed from this post he made.

I will, once I try and get people to believe in my JP wagon.

Upon rereading his ISO, I find myself shaking my head at every other one of his comments, WHICH IS BAD because he's also mostly engaging Tchill and Inferno.
Like I don't understand how I like my scumreads' answers/defense more than JP's posts/questions.

Which, by the way, is a direct counter to those who are arguing that he is just sheeping the seal.
He formed his own read and although it was a terrible one, actually attempted to case his read before sheeping the seal.
I think that's towny.

With that said

were scum.

Can confirm, and hence my

somewhat

unwavering faith and loyalty to your crusade.

Anyway, I'll cut to the chase.

I concede.
I blame the fact that I wasn't there for the interactions, but had to quickly scroll through them when I got online.

I don't think this is how Mafia would drop their case. Once proven wrong, he dropped it clean, and admitted his wrongness. I think Mafia would try to be more resilient about it?

Although even without this, his sheeping of a player he admires and his very early miller paranoia just bleeds town.

[John Pierce Gantt]

try to sound like he is doing at least some stuff

The important fact is that he did it

unprovoked

- on his own pace, without being pressured by anyone to do so.

He doesn't even really work together with RC.

Different people work in different way. I think Vork's way of working with the seal is by sheeping him.

How would you react?

This is my first game and I'm town here, so I have no clue, to be honest.

I kind of felt that your questions to Vork were less about you trying to sort him and more about trying to do something about his read on you. It's like you were playing him, even saying "you're better than I thought" in one of your posts.

It was both, actually. I was leading him so that he can find the contradiction to his case on his own (persuasion tends to be more effective when the audience reaches the conclusion on their own), and I have worded my interaction in specific way to read his reaction.

[John Pierce Gantt]

1. He feels pressured to prove that he is town

I don't know if someone who is feeling pressure to look like town would blatantly sheep the seal like that.
Also, the way he've been doing things didn't feel forced.

I believe there was a post of his when he said "I will sheep you but I want to convince people why JP is Mafia" when the seal asked him "why are you not voting the person I've voted?"
That post is one of the reason why I don't think Vork is faking anything.

[John Pierce Gantt]

The idea that working with someone involves sheeping them, especially given the way D1 went

If by D1 you mean the whole seal vs tchill, the things I mentioned happened beforehand.

“This is my first game and I’m Town” feels like a LAMIST response to your question.

I mean that's the only reason why I don't know how I as Mafia would react on things. And I was asked a question.

The idea that Gantt would call his interaction with Vork as “leading” bothers me.

I said I was leading because that's what I did? It is certainly weird that you are bothered by the word choice, mot the fact that I led him (which could be seen as manipulative).

[John Pierce Gantt]

Why not chennisden then?

I see JPG Vork rn.

Milk didnt help push my mislynch despite MANY MANY chances. That's part of the reason for the unvote.

I think it doesn't take that much to figure out that this reasoning is straight out of his rear end.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I am still not sold on Vork-Mafia by the way.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Why not chennisden then?

I see JPG Vork rn.

Milk didnt help push my mislynch despite MANY MANY chances. That's part of the reason for the unvote.

I think it doesn't take that much to figure out that this reasoning is straight out of his rear end.

This post seems kind of scummy to me, because I thought what chenn was saying in 1325 was okay

This post seems kind of scummy to me, because I disagree with this post I quoted.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I mean jp no offense, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't thinking of this on his first game.

You underestimate me then.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Not only that it was a blatant flattering, but also he chose something that should actually scumread you with.
Like, someone is calling someone the highest chance of being a Mafia and yet that person never even placed a vote on him. I would not see that as town, and I don't think it'd be just me either.

[John Pierce Gantt]

And considering that his reads turned 180 degrees to me and Vork, who were just recently gotten in bigger heat (resulting in him being in lesser heat), I don't see that as town move in any way.

[John Pierce Gantt]

And considering that his reads turned 180 degrees to me and Vork, who were just recently gotten in bigger heat (resulting in him being in lesser heat), I don't see that as town move in any way.

I do agree with you, it's just a matter of whether you have actual logic behind your read or you're able to see his scumplay better because you're bussing.

Thank you for the compliment.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Is there anyone that DOES NOT think that Vorkutta is scum?

Hi.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I don't think anyone thinks Vork is town as hard as I do in this game.

[John Pierce Gantt]

It's like when some good scum is being read by everyone else as town, but his partner comes and say "no, X is 100% scum" or when everyone is reading some lynchbait as scum and the true scum comes and say "nah guys, that's town for sure".

Fortunately for you, this won't be the case in this game in any way, since I've been reading him as town since Day 1 when many people read him as town too.

Then I think a cork flip is needed. If town, then jp has another strike. I dont know though, I feel like were being talked out of a good lynch

This sentence holds zero value when you would give me a strike regardless of what Vork flips anyway.

[John Pierce Gantt]

What happened happened.
Let's drop the subject now.

[John Pierce Gantt]

VOTE: davesaz

I believe this is the correct next lynch.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I agree, although I'm not as sure.

EDIT: Regarding Buki, that is.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Tier 0 - No Description Needed

• John Pierce Gantt

Tier 1 - Strongest Townread

• Seal
  
• Vorkuta (↑) - With how chennisden suddenly had him as a Mafia read, I believe even more that this slot is Town.

Tier 2 - Strong Townread

• Jingle (↑) - First pusher of chennisden

Tier 3 - Decent Townread

• Inferno390 (↑) - Only a relative increase. The actually read strength did not change.

Tier 4 - Weak Townread

• themilkcartonkid (↓) - His read on Vork kinda suddenly flipped when his wagon gained traction. Had chennisden as a strongest Mafia read and yet never voted him until very later.

Tier 5 - The Leftovers

• RuiRui
  
• davesaz
  
• Skellen (↓↓↓↓↓) - With Egix actually not confirming him as town, I have no reason to put him in 0.5 tier anymore.

Tier 6 - Confirmed Mafia

• chennisden (↓) - Revealed Mafia. Ha.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I want vork next.

I don't.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Tier 0 - No Description Needed

• John Pierce Gantt

Tier 1 - Strongest Townread

• Seal
  
• Vorkuta (↑) - With how chennisden suddenly had him as a Mafia read, I believe even more that this slot is Town.

Tier 2 - Strong Townread

• Jingle (↑) - First pusher of chennisden

Tier 3 - Decent Townread

• Inferno390 (↑) - Only a relative increase. The actually read strength did not change.

Tier 4 - Weak Townread

• themilkcartonkid (↓) - His read on Vork kinda suddenly flipped when his wagon gained traction. Had chennisden as a strongest Mafia read and yet never voted him until very later.

Tier 5 - The Leftovers

• RuiRui
  
• davesaz
  
• Skellen (↓↓↓↓↓) - With Egix actually not confirming him as town, I have no reason to put him in 0.5 tier anymore.

Tier 6 - Confirmed Mafia

• chennisden (↓) - Revealed Mafia. Ha.

X

X

[John Pierce Gantt]

Jingle, are you confident that your neighborizer is town?

[John Pierce Gantt]

Wait, that doesn't even matter.
The game is already over.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Hmm actually it's not 100%. It kinda hinges on lynching correctly if the neighborizer is 100% town.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Oh well, I practically claimed already.

I'm cop, and seal and Vorkuta are both confirmed town.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Well, after Day 1 I expected people to go after you, so I wanted to know your alignment 100% so I could see what would be the correct scenario when that happens.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I can hear disappointment for not being able to lynch Vork already.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Isn't a cop and an odd night loyal neighborizor too much power?

Well I plan to check that said neighborizer tonight.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Like, if we correctly lynch today, we can't lose.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I mean Jingle already revealed him - Inferno.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Conftown- Me.

Towncore- Buki, Neighbor, TMCK.

{RuiRui, RC}
{Vork, img, dave}

[John Pierce Gantt]

Let's lynch davesaz. No one objects, right?

[John Pierce Gantt]

Well Jingle, do remember that if Buki is your neighborizer, he is confirmed Mafia.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Oh yeah.

As a cop, yesterday was really a fun day for me.
"I don't like JP's tone."
"I don't like JP's post."
"JP is mafia with {player's mafia reads}"

[John Pierce Gantt]

"JP definitely bussed chennisden"
"JP is totally mafia with Vorktua"
"Vorktua is magicall Town if seal is Mafia"

[John Pierce Gantt]

What rolecop?

Chennisden was revealed as MafiaRolecop.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Just because you claimed miller that doesn't mean you're confirmed as one. Which is why I'd like the said neighborizer to check you, if the neighborizer is town.
Honestly, I doubt that you're Mafia. But 100% confirmation is better than my opinions.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Deadline is 1 day, 22 hours, 54 minutes

People, I believe we have to decide on our lynch quickly.

[John Pierce Gantt]

You would check me over a someone who can only be confirmed by the neighborizer?
Also, I'm fine with that order.

[John Pierce Gantt]

rc then vork

[John Pierce Gantt]

Also

You might not realize it, but this is exactly the type of thing you want people to say about you as a cop.

I did say I had fun.

[John Pierce Gantt]

i'm actually pretty salty

because we'd have essentially autowin if someone who wasn't me was copped

The way to cure saltiness is to drink lots of water until you're no longer salty enough to be salty.

[John Pierce Gantt]

did you realize when i started copreading you

Kinda. When you kept calling me a bad lynch.
Although I wish it wasn't the case and you made a full case on me, because it would've been amusing to read.

it was really obvious

but then again i know how to pr hunt and most people don't, so.

Yes, I admit that it was somewhat obvious.
But I really did want people to read it off easily just in case I was killed Night 2.

All of these roles have restrictions except "cop"

Yes. Because if cop was loyal, it would be very useless.
Plus my role was countered by ascetic and a miller if you are town, unlike other roles which countered themselves with loyal modifier.

[John Pierce Gantt]

If every investigatives were loyal, miller would serve zero purpose in this game.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I explained the seal.
Vorkuta for similar reason as well.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I did think about checking Jingle Night 2 just so I could tell the seal that he's town if he was, but I decided that that was too much of a personal reason and went with Vorkuta to see 1) if I was wrong on my read and 2) if he is indeed town see who jumps on him Day 3.

[John Pierce Gantt]

That was because I practically claimed while jumping the gun on my autowin theory.

[John Pierce Gantt]

And given how widely townread I was in this game, delaying my claim after that would have drawn unnecessary fire onto me and I would have lost my credibility of my claim.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot.

Why not chennisden then?

I see JPG Vork rn.

Milk didnt help push my mislynch despite MANY MANY chances. That's part of the reason for the unvote.

I think it doesn't take that much to figure out that this reasoning is straight out of his rear end.

This post seems kind of scummy to me, because I thought what chenn was saying in 1325 was okay

Do explain to me how chennisden's 1325 was okay to you.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Well, that's everyone claimed and the neighborhood is missing.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Reads wise I still think dave is Mafia so

[John Pierce Gantt]

If neighborizer is not claiming I don't want Vork to claim either.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I have a wild, wild theory.
Should I bother presenting it?

[John Pierce Gantt]

How can the neighborizer claim when if we mislynch we'd be in night phase?

[John Pierce Gantt]

I am ready to trigger half of the thread by saying two words.

EDIT: oh, you mean if neighborizer claims now.

[John Pierce Gantt]

It's just my wild theory summarized in two words.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Can I say my til foil theory now?

[John Pierce Gantt]

Tin foil theory, I meant.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Serial killer

[John Pierce Gantt]

That is 1/8 people triggered.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Tell me why it can't exist.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Tell me why it can't exist.

Because as far as I’m aware
You can’t have an SK in a mini normal.

Oh. Yeah I just checked the wiki and it indeed can not exist. My apologies.

or Werewolf group (of at least two members). In mini games (at most 13 players), there must be exactly one such group, with no third parties.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Why would I ever have holster the kill yesterday if I was Serial Killer anyway?

You could have shot Egix too.
But oh well, serial killers literally can not exist in this game.

[John Pierce Gantt]

If cop and neighborizer are confirmed town, then the game is literally over since 5 clears.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Yeah, that.
Although I want dave first.

[John Pierce Gantt]

Can we still lynch dave though

[John Pierce Gantt]

Why milky over dave?
If it literally doesn't matter, let's lynch dave.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I may or may not check seal again tonight to double check my result.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I mean if whatever the fancy mechanical plan fails, there is this thing called "actually play the game with reads."

[John Pierce Gantt]

Don't recheck RC, that's dumb. Target inside of the lynchpool.

I was kidding.

[John Pierce Gantt]

People, I was clearly joking.
I'd like to think that I am at least capable of basic logics.

[John Pierce Gantt]

This site is weird.

[John Pierce Gantt]

VOTE: milky

I really don't think milky is Mafia here but.

[John Pierce Gantt]

VOTE: dave

[John Pierce Gantt]

I think if we lynch davesaz > Inferno > Ruirui > Fumuki in order, we can't lose.

[John Pierce Gantt]

I see that town won the game. Nice work, people.

First of all, my apologies for my sudden replace out like that. I had a sudden travel plan that was going to keep me occupied for a long duration of time. Unfortunately, (or fortunately, rather) it was cancelled.

Reading up on the game, I see that most of my suspicions were on spot. But then, I got distracted by false leads. For my cop actions, on hindsight it probably would have been better for me to just check my Mafia reads (Inferno Night 1, Skellen Night 2). I actually checked my targets because while I had a decent amount of confidence, deep down I feared that I would be wrong and I could have made a fool out of myself.

Few people mentioned my tone being weird. I hope it does not put me in any unnecessary trouble in my future games.

Apparently tchill seems to be quite mad over being mislynched in Day 1. Sorry about that. But as a cop, I struggled to find a reason to keep your role alive. When I asked you in Day 1 why I should not lynch you for your role, it was a genuine question.

I was wondering why RuiRui seemed to avoid interacting with me, but I guess it all makes sense now with her role.

Overall, it was a fun game and I wish I could have stayed until the end of the game.