Mini Normal 2067: Musicals [Endgame]

[Ausuka]

hi

VOTE: rcenigma

rce can you please elaborate on what about SS's opening was wolfy to you?

[Ausuka]

hi

VOTE: rcenigma

rce can you please elaborate on what about SS's opening was wolfy to you?

He just did this as scum in a game where someone else replicated a recent scum opening and was townread for it. They were town but that isn't the point.

Having selfvoted as scum in a previous game where somebody else in this game was present, why do you think he would presume that he'd be townread for it again?

Why'd you put a vote down before you had an answer to your question?

I found it somewhat suspicious that you jumped on the SS wagon and acted like it was because he had a wolfy opening (but didn't specify why his opening was wolfy at the time) and made this post:

SS I....I can see you...

Which definitely looks like posturing to me.

Just generally, your early game felt really unnatural.

[Ausuka]

Umlaut and SS feel towny and gamesolvy so far. Nobody else looks all that town.

I selfvoted because i could, because it sparks discussion, and because, aside from conspicuously not voting at all, its my mo

Fine enough.

VOTE: ausuka - time to activate.

Why?

Did you understand 22?

I still have no idea what it means.

I think it means that you were online at the time RCE wrote that post, and RCE wanted to call you out for not posting. However I think that's somewhat disingenuous considering he didn't really give you anything to respond to at the time.

[Ausuka]

Yeah idk then.

[Ausuka]

I've noted a number of red flags coming from hitalt more than other players.

What are these red flags?

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:

yeah I'm not really comfortable with my vote right now - it's not that i've suddenly lost all faith in my train of thought but i feel like rce is being way too legitimately gamesolvy outside of that to continue focusing on him.

VOTE: Siv36

i'd rather do this instead and the more i think about it there's not really any point waiting for siv to respond to vote him.

I have a slight suspicion on S_S however. Contrary to Umlaut's thinking that S_S and hitalt couldn't be together, I think it's plausible that they are. Mafia could also be putting in extra effort to make it seem that they are not on the same team, and would probably work on that right from the beginning of the game. But, I'm also a newbie compared to you guys, you know each other a lot better than I.

This specifically just feels fake. Sure, what he mentions is certainly a possibility, but I don't see any evidence that this actually happened rather than Hitalt legitimately just forgetting about S_S's vote. The last sentence just feels slimy tbh.

He also says he's voting Hitalt because there's a number of red flags but for whatever reason doesn't specify what those red flags are.

I'm definitely not townreading Baezu either tbh.

[Ausuka]

Fine with me guys, as is always my luck I come across scummy af when I’m town and vice verse...let it be known that this ^^^ smells of scum to me and I would like to officially place a vote down before I go...

VOTE: hitalt

FWIW I also support a Siv36 wagon, though Civ6 is much better! Lolololol

Kinda having trouble understanding your reads here - what's so scummy about Saudade's replacement, why do you scumread Hitalt, if you're only unvoting because they don't have a wagon why aren't they in your list of players you'd vote if there was a wagon there, and like what exactly do you think of Siv? There's a small wagon (2 votes) there already and you listed him as someone you'd be willing to vote but you're not voting for anyone.

[Ausuka]

Why?

Because I want you to be involved in the game.
I believe in your ability to scumhunt.
And because it's been a while since I've played a game with you.

Still paging Ausuka.
Hope they get more active as the game progresses.
If not, we should lynch that.

I mean as far as I'm concerned I am involved in this game. I'm interested and I've made multiple pushes on people and it's been like 30 hours since the game started. I'm not sure what kind of meta you're using that says that I make more than 6 posts in a RL week day during the school term, but it's outdated and if I did the posts were a lot shorter than they are here.

[Ausuka]

Are you conf!town yet? Or will it take like 5 more posts until you reach that conclusion?

He's been confscum since 133

All the gas we needed to get this wagon rolling.

I agree - that slot is looking scummier by the second...

VOTE: flavorleaf

Ya humor doesn’t translate well...

UNVOTE: flavor leaf

VOTE: Baezu

What does post 156 mean exactly?

[Ausuka]

{rce, hitalt, ss}
{alchemist, fuscosco}
{cbynumber, Flavor leaf, umlaut}
{vorkuta}
{baezu, siv36}

My reads feel a bit too popular which is slightly concerning but other than that I'm fairly comfortable with them. Umlaut was town to me earlier but I ISO'd him and I actually don't see anything that scum couldn't do.

[Ausuka]

He seems gamesolvy and genuine.

[Ausuka]

Generally in his ISO, especially in his Baezu push and I like 129.

I'm pretty suspicious of your game so far. Where exactly do you expect all these questions to lead?

[Ausuka]

You're asking for elaboration on reads but there's plenty of content already in the thread, right? What do you think of Baezu and Siv for example?

[Ausuka]

{rce, hitalt, ss}
{alchemist, fuscosco}
{cbynumber, Flavor leaf, umlaut}
{vorkuta}
{baezu, siv36}

This is, like, startlingly close to sorting by postcount.

This makes sense imo. This was early enough in the game that I wasn't going to townread any players with low postcounts very much, regardless of alignment. Outside the top five you just kind of had a poe of which Baezu and siv were the most scummy.

[Ausuka]

Siv has replaced out now so I can't press him any further on this but:

I've noted a number of red flags coming from hitalt more than other players.

What are these red flags?

Below is what I had noted at the time. For some reason, I thought I had more.

@Fuscosco - are you an alt, or new on site?

Might help me understand you better

.

I would have probably looked over this easily, but then HitAlt tacks on at the end "It might help me understand you better", which struck a LAMIST chord with me. A normal town seeking to understand someone's previous identity wouldn't try steering the town's perception that it's a scum-hunting intent.

Btw, I have seen Something_Smart both as scum and as town before, and I have to admit that I can not read their tone correctly. Ever.

I haven't played this game very often, but from what I've observed so far, town-players tend to fall prey to a dunning-kruger effect. I'm suspecting that if a town player has a lot of information on someone, their confidence in their read would be really high. Having a low confidence read like above really doesn't make sense to me.
(maybe i'm reading too far into this one.)

I’m confused here. He self-voted in response to someone making what was really an NAI play?

If I understood him correctly, he means that S_S selfvoted as scum in a

This is a personal quirky read, so I apologize if this read seems really weak.

Alchemist was drilling RCE that question. HitAlt wooshes in offering a helpful answer of his own. In my experience, I keep confirming scum wooshing in to other people's Q+A's.

It's hard for me to empathize with this because as town, I see the importance of people sticking up for themselves above anything. Because answers to these questions provide a lot of information. When mafia wooshes in, it seems like they want more spotlight on them so they can clear their name. Maybe there's a slight buddying bent in there also.

These reasons seem kinda weak (it's not unusual for somebody to be open about why they're asking a question, a low-confidence read like isn't scummy at all and I can't grasp the thought process that it is, the third point I feel doesn't really apply here - Hitalt isn't really answering a question meant to grill RCE, they're explaining a point that had confusing wording). I'm not exactly sure to what extent I should consider the Siv slot scum for this, but I feel like it's plausible he went with a Hitalt push because he had to more than anything else; he didn't see anything scummy but felt like he had to make some kind of push so he went with Hitalt and kind of formed the reasoning afterwards.

Pedit: Why should I have scumread any of them?

[Ausuka]

What kind of cologne would you wear in that scenario? Would you say you’re at least casually knowledgeable about different fragrances?

VOTE: Slaxx

Hey, bud. Excited to play with you.

Also, my cologne gambit is gonna have to wait now.

ScumSIV got scared and couldn’t handle it.

[Ausuka]

Looking over the entire thread, Alchemist has mostly had short comments and questions here and there so I don’t feel a real solid towniness from him. The fact that he agreed with umlauts conclusions raises him up a few townie points for me because umlaut is a TR in my mind.

Why is this worthy of a townread?

This post in particular pings me the wrong way...it almost feels like she’s trying to distance herself from RCE.

What part of this makes you think I'm distancing myself from RCE? I'm expressing a townread from him.

And if she didn’t really know who else to vote for, why put a vote on Siv? Simply because they have not responded?

"This specifically just feels fake. Sure, what he mentions is certainly a possibility, but I don't see any evidence that this actually happened rather than Hitalt legitimately just forgetting about S_S's vote. The last sentence just feels slimy tbh.

He also says he's voting Hitalt because there's a number of red flags but for whatever reason doesn't specify what those red flags are."
You quoted this post; what happened? Do you think it's not reasoning for my Siv vote?

Ausuka seems to me like someone playing scum really well

Can you provide evidence for this. What exactly in my play makes me "scum playing really well" rather than town? You mentioned me distancing myself from RCE, sure, although I don't see how that happened at all; is there anything else at all or is this it?

Honestly, the post from hitalt makes a lot of sense to me reading back over the thread. When I first read hitalt’s posts as he was writing them, they came across as scummy but I believe him when he said that he didn’t see SS’s self vote and his posts generally seem towny

I selfvoted because i could, because it sparks discussion, and because, aside from conspicuously not voting at all, its my mo

Fine enough.

VOTE: ausuka - time to activate.

What about 59 makes Hitalt town? It seems very NAI to me. Why did you even scumread them in the first place?

This post from RCE really rubs me the wrong way...a lot of his posts don’t have much content and again, he goes from voting me to voting Siv, whom I feel is the other easy mark.....not feeling crazy town vibes from RCE

If he's done scumhunting (which he has) does it matter so much if a few of his posts don't have much content? I don't really understand.

I understand why Siv made this vote- he himself had said before that hitalt was pinging him with red flags, but reading over it again, it seems like he might be buddying up to me because hitalt’s posts aren’t particularly scummy when you look at the entire thread...

You say you understand why Siv made this vote but you also seem to be saying you don't understand why Siv made this vote. I don't really understand this at all.

The other thing that bothers me about Siv is that he’s doing “well enough” and by that I mean, trying to seem just towny enough to get by. Kind of a lesser version of what ausuka is doing

Can you elaborate on how I'm just trying to seem towny enough to get by?

Why do you think voting Siv is an "easy mark" -> an easy ML but also think he's scum?

[Ausuka]

I’m really upset, guys. I had some real stuff to dive into SIV from that post, and I don’t feel like giving Slaxx the Third Degree Boon.

Ausuka, what day you? Who’s off to you?

Sorry if I'm being dense but I don't understand this.

Pedit: Why should I have scumread any of them?

Well, you scumread some people, so it'd be quite the coincidence if your townreads on the higher posters had nothing to do with their activity.

I only townread five players, and I think high-end activity players are a bit more likely town anyway, so it's not that much of a coincidence.

[Ausuka]

Assuming you're talking about my reads -

Baezu is the primary scumread right now and I want her lynched. The partner(s) is likely in {cby, slaxx, vorkuta} (and I think it's 2 scum because this was a pre-designed setup by schadd who is a modern user and generally speaking is going to mod 13 player setups. if this setup has one less mislynch i think it's because he wanted a balanced two-scum game. additionally 11/12 confirmations seems a bit excessive compared to site standard and I think it's likely to come from the desire to have at least one scum in the game from the start. this is all just speculation though.)

[Ausuka]

ausuka’s playstyle is almost too perfect...

what do you think i would do differently if i were town here?

[Ausuka]

I’m gonna laugh so hard when they lynch your scummy slot slaxx

mmm

[Ausuka]

I’m gonna laugh so hard when they lynch your scummy slot slaxx

mmm

I see you've already made up your mind about me, and so everything I say you're using to support your theory, which is fine, but I would encourage you to take those lenses off and actually read the content of my bigger posts

Why did you write 257 then? How did I write 285 if I haven't read any of your bigger posts?

[Ausuka]

I just think it's pretty funny that I point out that I think ausuka is scum and everyone jumps down my throat

You were the leading wagon before you expressed any suspicion on me and as far as I can tell you recieved one vote since then. That was from a replacement who replaced in after your post.

And if so many people were convinced that Siv was scum, why arent there more votes on slaxx?

I don't think that many people thought Siv was scum?

[Ausuka]

It felt to me like distancing because there was no real legitimacy or explanation for the unvote except for the fact that you were doubting your previous feelings

Why is doubting my previous feelings, thinking RCE is town for being gamesolvy, and having a better target for a vote not a legitimate reason to unvote?

I think it is a good reason, but you didn't cite that as your reason

It is though? Like I said it in that post:

This specifically just feels fake. Sure, what he mentions is certainly a possibility, but I don't see any evidence that this actually happened rather than Hitalt legitimately just forgetting about S_S's vote. The last sentence just feels slimy tbh.

He also says he's voting Hitalt because there's a number of red flags but for whatever reason doesn't specify what those red flags are.

I originally scumread him for his posts on self voting when he was only addressing one of the self votes. But him voting for you (someone who hadn't been targeted until them and has played very towny) actually upped my towny read of his

This read is based on me being scum right?

originally, I understood why he had made this vote but rereading the thread it seemed oddly out of place

I feel as if this still doesn't make sense? What do you mean by out of place exactly?

If ausuka does end up getting lynched and she does happen to be town, I'm pretty much getting lynched Day 2.

While you're correct, I don't think this is a valid point because I think it's very unlikely I get lynched today as things are and I think there's a good chance you knew that when you first made your vote.

Baezu: I'm finding it hard to parse your scumread on me. As I see it your points are: 1) I didn't have enough reasoning for unvoting RCE and 2) I didn't have enough reason to vote Siv. Is there anything else?

You thought he was scum,

{rce, hitalt, ss}
{alchemist, fuscosco}
{cbynumber, Flavor leaf, umlaut}
{vorkuta}
{baezu, siv36}

My reads feel a bit too popular which is slightly concerning but other than that I'm fairly comfortable with them. Umlaut was town to me earlier but I ISO'd him and I actually don't see anything that scum couldn't do.

FL thought he was scum,

VOTE: Slaxx

yet not all those people are voting for him

Hey, bud. Excited to play with you.

Also, my cologne gambit is gonna have to wait now.

ScumSIV got scared and couldn’t handle it.

hitalt agreed

Not saying anything about your upper brackets yet, but I think I agree with your bottom 3.

RCE thought so

Hmm maybe not VOTE: Siv

Hello, I am one of the people.

I haven't done a readslist in awhile so, why not.

(Ausuka, Alchemist, SS, Umlaut, Vorkuta)
(HitAlt, FL, Cbynumber)
(Fuscosco, Baezu, Siv)

3 of those are voting your wagon and had you as a scumread; it makes sense they'd wagon the person with the more votes. I can't say I really understand FL's trajectory yet but that was still based on the whole cologne thing I think.

[Ausuka]

Alchemist how are your reads looking right now?

[Ausuka]

Rn I think Baezu is scum because:
1) I think her early game was kinda trying to blend in more than anything without much desire to scumhunt.

S_S and Fuscosco are obviously not scum together. Likewise S_S and HitAlt.

Why'd you put a vote down before you had an answer to your question?

Weird question. Why wait? When should someone put a vote down?

I found that weird also...It’s RVS why does he need to wait to cast his vote for you?

UNVOTE: umlaut

Liking his posts

I’m happy considering SS, ausuka and especially umlaut towny for now

In other news, methinks hitalt is seeming pretty scummy

She echoes Umlaut's question, unvotes him and gives pretty plain reads on the rest of the players. Like there isn't much scumhunting intent behind these posts and they look more like "I'm trying to post stuff that looks normal" than "I'm trying to find and lynch scum."

2) 146 and 156 seem weird to me. Like she just kind of votes FL and then unvotes? I feel like she's just trying to hop on the wagon and then unvotes once she realizes it's a serious thing?

3) Her scumread on me imo makes no sense. I'm trying to distance myself from RCE in a post where I unvote him? I don't think she's reading my posts that carefully if she's asking why I'm voting Siv; I made that clear in the same post that I voted him in the first place. These are the only two real points I see; anything else is kinda vague. She says that I seem like someone playing scum really well - but apparently this is just a compliment and not a point at all, so I think this is it, other than that my playstyle is "too perfect" - which just seems nonsensical. What even is a perfect playstyle anyway?
My suggestion as to why she'd do this as scum instead, is that she's being wagoned up and needs something to change. Her partner(s) may be lurky or have given up already. So, seeing herself in a tough spot, she may attempt to push a player she sees as obviously town, and then say this as a defense:

If ausuka does end up getting lynched and she does happen to be town, I'm pretty much getting lynched Day 2. As scum, I would not feel comfortable going after someone whom everyone sees as "so town" - losing a scum day 2 would seriously cripple the scum team. If I were scum, I'd put my vote where the majority of votes are going so as not to draw attention to myself

I think this is a more likely thought process than any town thought process behind her push.

I’m gonna laugh so hard when they lynch your scummy slot slaxx

mmm

I see you've already made up your mind about me, and so everything I say you're using to support your theory, which is fine, but I would encourage you to take those lenses off and actually read the content of my bigger posts

This also doesn't seem like something you say to your top scumread.

4) She seems very postury at points. Specifically:

I’m gonna laugh so hard when they lynch your scummy slot slaxx

This honestly just screams fake to me.

Well, sounds like there’s a consensus. So why haven’t I been lynched yet? Make it happen, guys. I’m not going to vote myself. Wouldn’t everyone rather have actual concrete information with which to work tomorrow?

This isn't as fake as the quote above but I'm a little wary about how she seems to change to and from this mindset so quickly.

5) She says things like "I'm gonna laugh so hard when they lynch your scummy slot slaxx" and Slaxx is the more scumread of me and him I think. She even says at one point there should be a wagon on slaxx - why doesn't she ever try and make one happen?

6) Her mini-push on RCE is weird and doesn't feel like it comes from a town mindset. Like she says that he's likely to be scum because a lot of his posts don't have much content - I think this is a strange way to look at RCE rather than judging him by how much scumhunting he's done overall. She says this is subjective but like I don't really see how it is? Perhaps more importantly, she calls voting Siv an "easy mark" but she also has Siv as her second top scumread - surely she should be understanding where RCE is coming from on this rather than criticizing him for it? Like I don't get the attitude of calling a scumread an easy mislynch.

Can someone who townreads Baezu tell me why? If anyone explained it already I totally missed it but I don't think they have.

[Ausuka]

Slaxx - what happened to your sr on Baezu? It was, like, really extreme. She's still the top wagon and if you were scumreading her I presume you'd still be voting her, so what changed?

[Ausuka]

RCE what do you think of Baezu now? You sounded like you scumread her but you've voteparked Slaxx for a while now.

[Ausuka]

Ausuka I'm kind of inclined to think Baezu was a designated buss (which means more than 2 scum) or the scumteam is passively hoping the wgaon falls off. The third alternative being Baezu is just drowning town.

Yeah I agree with your first option mostly. If Baezu is scum, scum either bussed or lurked heavily (read volxen slot tbh) through the Baezu wagon.

I could see Baezu being town without solid reasoning for their reads and they are just forcing the content because they've been put on the spot. Which makes it inconsistent.

@baezu: do you think this is an accurate description of your posts?

But to be honest the main reason is the AtE just got to me.

Well, sounds like there’s a consensus. So why haven’t I been lynched yet? Make it happen, guys. I’m not going to vote myself. Wouldn’t everyone rather have actual concrete information with which to work tomorrow?

assuming you're referring to this - even if it's genuine what makes it town? if she's been bussed especially, and she feels like everyone thinks she's scum, i think she's likely to make this post, right?

[Ausuka]

I guess I misunderstood her whole post the first time I read it.

When she said 11/12 I thought she meant 11/12 not 11 or 12. Yikes. That’s bad on my part.

I meant eleven out of twelve (to be more specific, requiring eleven confirmations of the twelve players we have in this game is unusually large and I thought that the reason why it was so large was because of Dann's desire to have at least one scum present at gamestart.)

[Ausuka]

I like Auks two scum spec a lot less now that it’s actually more possible there’s only two scum.

Well no, because had there been 13 players it would have been obviously bullshit but now it's actually a reasonable thing to think about.

I don’t want to get too caught up on it because I think she’s town still.

But the point is the confidence and tone in which she said it, with my perception of it still being likely three, made her super Townie because she lacked info. You gotta think fmpov reading it and just figuring it’s three/thirteen, I’m kinda laughing like why would there be two, she must be town.

I guess if there are two scum Slaxx is town for this. I don't feel like this is faked.

[Ausuka]

yet no one is coming up with an equally good counter wagon that I can get behind.

Why haven't you begun one then? If you don't have reads, couldn't you try to ISO-dive people and see if you can get reads out of that? At least can you tell me why 420 is wrong? Same sentiment to SS.

[Ausuka]

Ok so let’s say I’m scum- who is the other scum?

Cbynumber/vorkuta/slaxx seem like viable options to me personally. I guess I understand the sentiment that vorkuta and slaxx were pushing your lynch so they'd be unlikely to be your partner but I think in a gamestate where none of them were being especially townread - this applies especially if Slaxx, the second most scumread slot at the wagon's conception, is actually scum - scum would be more likely to bus in order to generate towncred from that and salvage the game.

hi volxen - looking forward to seeing you produce content

Pedit: Ok thanks Baezu. How do you feel about Slaxx rn?

[Ausuka]

Can we get a tally of how many people have accepted ausuka's '2 scum premise'?
Like if I'm going to try and dig through people by what their reads on baezu are, I'd

naively

think that

-in a 2 scum setup, I'd think that remaining scum can't afford a scum!Baezu lynch= not on the wagon
-in a 3 scum setup, scum has some leeway so my guess is 1 scum on the wagon, 1 off.

Then baezu threw out

Yes there are definitely two scum on my wagon

Is that 2/2 or 2/3?

So I would like to know the setup spec (or rather what we think the setup is) before even trying to speculate.

I feel like this is the wrong way around? There's no way to be certain on d1 whether we have 2 or 3 scum; we can speculate but we can't be confident enough that we base our game off of it. If you get a solid scumread it doesn't matter if there are 2 or 3 scum, they're likely scum anyway, right?

I know I was kind of the one who brought it up so it might be my fault but I feel like this 2/3 scum thing is becoming a big distraction.

[Ausuka]

Because honestly the scum team would be doing a terrible job of it were me and one of you

I buy "too bad to be scum" actually.

So I think what I'm getting at with my previous posts and this is:

REGARDLESS of how BS/how much I disagree/how scummy Baezu pings me, I'm worried that this is lynchbait and actually good!scum

TM

is doing work.

I'm also deciding whether there's one or both in FL & RCE, but that's what I want to focus on AFTER the slots with little content make their catchup posts.

Is there a reason why scum isn't playing badly in your eyes?

Ftr I think even if Baezu is scum, scum aren't even doing badly - I'd say they're doing rather well; Baezu has convinced most players she's town and now we're in a rut. Most people believe Baezu is town and seem relatively unshakeable on that belief, and the momentum is highly against that wagon, but at the same time, there is no solid push on any other player, leaving us in a place of stagnation.

[Ausuka]

Dunno how j feel about this

-we have a notoriously good player that will screw up our game if he's scum
-scum!RCE: Fear not mere mortals! Just let me get to D3, then I will solve this problem!
-rest of town: believes in this
-scum!RCE: survives to D3
-scum!RCE: says literally anything
????
-Profit

I can see this playing out.

Which would mean that I can drop the FL association and try and read into RCE more.

But RCE isn't under any pressure. He is widely townread and if he's scum he has one leg in d3 already. Why does he even bother doing this?

pedit: meh I don't think I'm going to see eye to eye with you about this in any way.

[Ausuka]

Also, I don’t know the exact dates or confirmation yet, but I’ve been in a super rockin’ place emotionally and mentally lately. This past month has been some kind of awesome, which is really strange for the inner angsty optimistic but entirely depressed rags life I’ve lived most of my life, and I’ve literally gone from essentially nothing living in a small mountain town to being able to support myself living in the SF area by myself, and I don’t know if you all know this, but I’m an actor (also writer, trying to work on my own projects to get funded) and I just found out today that an audition I did recently, I’ll be getting flown out to LA to talk, and it’s a lead role for an upcoming pretty big film set for a 2020 theatrical release that’ll be filmed in 25 different countries, and I’m sad that if this happens, my July-October mafia career will be drastically halted. I’m technically not supposed to say any of this, but it’s totally anonymous here on MS for the most part, and I had to shout it out somewhere, and I enjoy a lot of you guys in this game a lot.

And if I ever do make it big, y’all best believe I’m going to find someway to create some kind of televised mafia thing much better than any YouTube mafia players, as I haven’t found a single mafia YouTube group that I think can light a candle to the players on this site, or the mods on this site.

Sorry for my overshare, but yeah. This place is a big part of my life, so if I disappear for a while, don’t think I’ve just left it behind.

congrats FL

Slaxx seems town. The only post I didn’t like from him was 249 because if he is scum and he doesn’t get lynched then scum wins but it’s certainly not a scummy comment...the other things that was offputting was the aggressive stance he took but again, not scummy per se

What happened with 251 to 257 - what changed since then?

[Ausuka]

if anyone else tr'ing Baezu would like to comment on 420 that'd be great - I understand SS because his towntells are my scumtells apparently but I don't get anyone else.

[Ausuka]

if anyone else tr'ing Baezu would like to comment on 420 that'd be great - I understand SS because his towntells are my scumtells apparently but I don't get anyone else.

uhh this comes off wrong; I'm not saying my reads are totally infallible or whatever I'm just saying I want to hear exactly why my reasoning is wrong.

{RCEnigma, Fuscosco} -> Fusc read is new and will probably be remarked on: I think stuff like how he struggles with getting reads but still makes a clear effort to sort people and how he seems to be thinking about what's best for town even when there's not really any agenda to play towards is towny. Like I think his read reversal on me and push on vorkuta doesn't have much of a point as scum. Also he just sounds genuine.
{Hitalt, something_smart}
{Alchemist21, Umlaut, Flavor Leaf}
{volxen, vorkuta, Slaxx}
{Baezu}

[Ausuka]

I don’t reply well to direct and aggressive confrontation with males...it’s my damage from all my years of being spat at in the corporate world for being female- I’ll try to control my temper in the future

This explains your tone but like I don't think it explains how you call him scummy in 257? You also seemed to scumlean on Siv earlier.

Yeah I'm really 14.

[Ausuka]

I think Slaxx is scummy (not fullon scumread exactly but kind of a scumlean) is partially based on the points vs Siv I brought up earlier in 108 and a bit in 281 and also because I dislike him (Slaxx now)'s interactions with you;

231 is so damn ugly because it also downplays the content generated so far. It’s just so not town in every way.

Bwahaha

You’re the only person with whom I’ve ever played that has ever insinuated that being on the fence on day 1 page 10 is anti town

Also, care to explain how in your entire read through you kept saying baezu town baezu town and then you vote for me?! Wut?

231 is so damn ugly because it also downplays the content generated so far. It’s just so not town in every way.

Bwahaha

You’re the only person with whom I’ve ever played that has ever insinuated that being on the fence on day 1 page 10 is anti town

Also, care to explain how in your entire read through you kept saying baezu town baezu town and then you vote for me?! Wut?

I understand the hyperactivity because I caught you and I’m really sorry I had to come in and ruin your fun.

But I think said you had a minor town indicative post and then one other Townie catchup. I also said like two-three of your posts were gross and explained, quite clearly, why.

Yea that “ausuka is playing scum well” shit is ugly. It sets a bar for other people where if ausuka plays Townie she’s mafia and can’t win either way. I don’t know how logically you can purport to know who is playing scum well but not be able to name those who aren’t. Beazu flips scum at least twice as often as rand.

Oh yes, here it is. My thought process laid out plain as day, in the post after I voted you.

156/157 beazu gross

Baezu minor town for 62

231 is so damn ugly because it also downplays the content generated so far. It’s just so not town in every way.

Damn Bae look at all those posts I said you were scum in!

156/157 beazu gross

Baezu minor town for 62

231 is so damn ugly because it also downplays the content generated so far. It’s just so not town in every way.

Damn Bae look at all those posts I said you were scum in!

I’m gonna laugh so hard when they lynch your scummy slot slaxx

When I first read this interaction I was almost certain it was S/S just because of how fake and theatrical it looks to me. To some extent I still feel the same way.

Slaxx's scumread on you felt like super extreme and then he jumped off the wagon because he wanted to pressure Fuscosco a bit. He voted back when I pointed this out to his credit but like the point I'm trying to make is that I feel his earlier vigor for a Baezu lynch is potentially fake and his enthusiasm had a dropoff ever since a Baezu lynch became non-inevitable.

I don't think it's

just

Baezu/Slaxx though so I don't want to dwell too much on this read until a later date.

[Ausuka]

Hi vedith!

volxen has been online multiple times elsewhere since he replaced in.

Baezu is still my top scumread but momentum is so against that wagon rn that I don't think it would accomplish much to keep voting her.

VOTE: volxen

[Ausuka]

Meh that's good enough for now honestly.

VOTE: Baezu

Vedith there were no claims or anything. Baezu was wagoned, people decided she was town, and then nothing important really happened.

[Ausuka]

Meh that's good enough for now honestly.

VOTE: Baezu

Vedith there were no claims or anything. Baezu was wagoned, people decided she was town, and then nothing important really happened.

What’s good enough for now?

Volxen promised a lot of content soon because he's reading through the game rn. I'm fine with that, so long as he delivers.

Pedit: He was referring to the entire game thread rather than Umlaut's ISO I'm almost certain.

[Ausuka]

Subject: Gameshow Mafia: Mafia PT

If I were town I’d say I’d be the scummiest if all of us, but I’m scum and people seem to think I’m town when I play scum...let’s see how this plays out but I do kind of like momo’s gambit

Ok so I might be being stupid but like I think this makes Baezu waay more likely to be town? Because this was on April 2, and I don't think she has much reason to say this specifically as scum and kind of misinform her team-mates?

UNVOTE:

[Ausuka]

VC 1.06

King of New York - Newsies

votes

[5] Baezu

:

Alchemist21 107 Vorkuta 112, HitAlt 122, Ausuka 168, Slaxx 424

[1] Vorkuta

:

cbynumber 14

[1] Ausuka

:

Baezu 222

[1] Slaxx

:

RCEnigma 96

[1] Something_Smart

:

Something_Smart 7

[3] Not Voting

:

Flavor Leaf 250, Umlaut 272, Fuscosco 377

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

The Day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-04-09 19:50:20)

Mod Notes

: cbynumber has been prodded.

This game made soo much more sense when I thought Baezu was scum though. The Baezu wagon just stagnated at ^ this point, why did it do that, why didn't scum push it through? They could have thought town would push it through but at that point that should have clearly not been the case. It must have been because scum was already on the wagon or just absent (volxen/vedith) right? This makes me want to rule out {RCE, Fusco, SS, FL} for now if we accept the premise Baezu is actually town here.

[Ausuka]

I thought you were scumreading Baezu?

I think I'll just wait for volxen's catch-up.

[Ausuka]

Do I need to lynch Ausuka?

I don't know, do you?

RCE what are your reads right now?

[Ausuka]

hi i'm here!

VOTE: volxen

i've really been unimpressed with his posting here considering that he's read the entire game. I feel like his posts are fake and there's no actual desire to sort the game behind them. {Ausuka, RCE, Fusc, Bae} are all quite non-controversial townreads that he opens with. His push on Slaxx is just Siv's earlygame, which is like fine I guess but it's not something he can pursue, he's not even going after Slaxx for this, and it's his only scumread.

I townread slaxx now. For d1 at least I'm willing to trust him on the Alchemist read since he says he's really confident and I presume there's a very good reason for it that he can't tell us.

@volxen: what do you think of umlaut/vedith and ss?

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Baezu
Very likely scum.

Hmm maybe not VOTE: Siv

I really like this from RCE; it mirrors my thoughts at the time which is nice and I think the voting and then immediate change of vote indicates a town thought process; as scum a push on Baezu is perfectly fine, he's showing a tendency here to think about and constantly reassess his reads which I think is town indicative.

[Ausuka]

What kind of re assessment on his reads do you think he had within 2mins that early on?

I don't understand what you mean by this? He changed his reads in a short period of time; I think this shows he was thinking about the game after his vote and about which of his reads were more likely to be scum. I think this mindset is town-indicative. Does this clarify what I mean?

[Ausuka]

i think that flipflopping is a very different thing from fencesitting or being uncommitted. i also think that flipflopping requires going back and forth a lot of times on a lot of reads in a way that indicates that you're switching your read towards what is more beneficial for a scum agenda. i think that fencesitting is refusing to take stances on players. being uncommitted is not a term i've really seen having much use in mafia, so I'm not sure what it means exactly, but not being committed to one vote isn't a scummy trait to me. i don't think RCE's posts would fit any of those criteria.

pedit: sure!

[Ausuka]

The votes on Baezu I'm not a fan of are Alchemist and Vorkuta. Alchemist has the mysterious town thing going for him so I don't want to pursue that d1 even though honestly I'm not a fan of his ISO at all.

Vorkuta is mixed feelings because his entrance was a vote onto the main wagon and a tr on the four most active players. 120 was quite genuine though.

Are you conf!town yet? Or will it take like 5 more posts until you reach that conclusion?

He's been confscum since 133

All the gas we needed to get this wagon rolling.

I agree - that slot is looking scummier by the second...

VOTE: flavorleaf

Baezu can you explain your thought process here please.

Thought - is it at all possible the mafia PT stuff was wrong? Like the thought process could have been that she wanted to exclude ongoing games, or that most of the time she was townread as scum? If I had all these reasons to sr Baezu and I gave it all up because of an incorrect reason I'd be really disappointed in myself tbh. I think I'll meta Baezu a little further.

[Ausuka]

as is always my luck I come across scummy af when I’m town and vice verse

This type of AtE always pokes at me, and seeing as I have nothing else to go on but arbitrary scum points:
VOTE: Baezu

My two cents:
RCEnigma and SSmart are both doing what they did last game w/ me so townpoints.
Ausuka and Umlaut are trying to solve

and are explaining the game to me

- townpoints galore

cynumber is a filthy casual

I don't know how I feel about self-votes during RVS especially from players I've never seen before, so I have nothing to say about that.

And uhh.... yeah that's it for me

After reading Baezu's games I have concluded this is neither her towngame or scumgame and am somehow more confused than I was before.

[Ausuka]

that q+ was not intentional and to be honest I have no idea how it happened I'm not even on mobile this time.

[Ausuka]

as is always my luck I come across scummy af when I’m town and vice verse

This type of AtE always pokes at me, and seeing as I have nothing else to go on but arbitrary scum points:
VOTE: Baezu

My two cents:
RCEnigma and SSmart are both doing what they did last game w/ me so townpoints.
Ausuka and Umlaut are trying to solve

and are explaining the game to me

- townpoints galore

cynumber is a filthy casual

I don't know how I feel about self-votes during RVS especially from players I've never seen before, so I have nothing to say about that.

And uhh.... yeah that's it for me

i meant the Baezu wagon and you're right oops

But like considering the circumstance even if you were the 2nd actual vote I think the vote was a fairly safe one. RCE voted for her and then unvoted, and me and Fusco expressed some level of support for the wagon.

[Ausuka]

i'm alive but have a maths exam tomorrow.

the volxen wagon feels all wrong but i don't like have a solid better alternative. will try again monday evening unless something comes up.

UNVOTE: for now.

fl's claim i'm pretty sure is literally impossible under normal rules and idk why people are discussing it as if it's real?

[Ausuka]

if i'm wrong i'll probably figure it out tomorrow. volxen is like the only wagon right now and i think scum are likely letting it happen - nobody is expressing any resistance since vedith's random 180 iirc especially if baezu is town, it seems likely town has just been selfdestructing all day. additionally volxen's recent posting doesn't feel like it spews, like, anyone as anything upon his flip (so i don't really understand the explanation he's obfuscating associations), and just feels genuine more than anything else. like 1101 seems like a real post.

also the fact that i'm being painted as scum simply because i have concerns about the volxen wagon only makes me think this is the correct take.

like i pushed cby immediately upon entrance, i randomly shaded the slot, and voted on the wagon knowing how popular it would be, and generally have not been acting like a volxen partner. i unvote volxen, and not even in a way that's likely to prevent his lynch, and i'm suddenly scum with him? lol

@vedith: day-specific modifier isn't whitelisted unless i missed something

[Ausuka]

the wiki says "Usually, the confirm-upon-request version is used, although the other variations are acceptable."

this i think is mostly referring to the variant of the ic where they are always conftown from the game's beginning. for an ic power to activate on a specific day, they would have to have a day-specific modifier, which isn't whitelisted.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: baezu

[Ausuka]

Lmao Vedith what are you even saying? If they fit neither of their metas that's just NAI. Why should something NAI prevent me from voting her?

[Ausuka]

No? That comment was related to meta. If I don't meta sr someone I can still sr them based on this game.

[Ausuka]

Rn I think Baezu is scum because:
1) I think her early game was kinda trying to blend in more than anything without much desire to scumhunt.

S_S and Fuscosco are obviously not scum together. Likewise S_S and HitAlt.

Why'd you put a vote down before you had an answer to your question?

Weird question. Why wait? When should someone put a vote down?

I found that weird also...It’s RVS why does he need to wait to cast his vote for you?

UNVOTE: umlaut

Liking his posts

I’m happy considering SS, ausuka and especially umlaut towny for now

In other news, methinks hitalt is seeming pretty scummy

She echoes Umlaut's question, unvotes him and gives pretty plain reads on the rest of the players. Like there isn't much scumhunting intent behind these posts and they look more like "I'm trying to post stuff that looks normal" than "I'm trying to find and lynch scum."

2) 146 and 156 seem weird to me. Like she just kind of votes FL and then unvotes? I feel like she's just trying to hop on the wagon and then unvotes once she realizes it's a serious thing?

3) Her scumread on me imo makes no sense. I'm trying to distance myself from RCE in a post where I unvote him? I don't think she's reading my posts that carefully if she's asking why I'm voting Siv; I made that clear in the same post that I voted him in the first place. These are the only two real points I see; anything else is kinda vague. She says that I seem like someone playing scum really well - but apparently this is just a compliment and not a point at all, so I think this is it, other than that my playstyle is "too perfect" - which just seems nonsensical. What even is a perfect playstyle anyway?
My suggestion as to why she'd do this as scum instead, is that she's being wagoned up and needs something to change. Her partner(s) may be lurky or have given up already. So, seeing herself in a tough spot, she may attempt to push a player she sees as obviously town, and then say this as a defense:

If ausuka does end up getting lynched and she does happen to be town, I'm pretty much getting lynched Day 2. As scum, I would not feel comfortable going after someone whom everyone sees as "so town" - losing a scum day 2 would seriously cripple the scum team. If I were scum, I'd put my vote where the majority of votes are going so as not to draw attention to myself

I think this is a more likely thought process than any town thought process behind her push.

I’m gonna laugh so hard when they lynch your scummy slot slaxx

mmm

I see you've already made up your mind about me, and so everything I say you're using to support your theory, which is fine, but I would encourage you to take those lenses off and actually read the content of my bigger posts

This also doesn't seem like something you say to your top scumread.

4) She seems very postury at points. Specifically:

I’m gonna laugh so hard when they lynch your scummy slot slaxx

This honestly just screams fake to me.

Well, sounds like there’s a consensus. So why haven’t I been lynched yet? Make it happen, guys. I’m not going to vote myself. Wouldn’t everyone rather have actual concrete information with which to work tomorrow?

This isn't as fake as the quote above but I'm a little wary about how she seems to change to and from this mindset so quickly.

5) She says things like "I'm gonna laugh so hard when they lynch your scummy slot slaxx" and Slaxx is the more scumread of me and him I think. She even says at one point there should be a wagon on slaxx - why doesn't she ever try and make one happen?

6) Her mini-push on RCE is weird and doesn't feel like it comes from a town mindset. Like she says that he's likely to be scum because a lot of his posts don't have much content - I think this is a strange way to look at RCE rather than judging him by how much scumhunting he's done overall. She says this is subjective but like I don't really see how it is? Perhaps more importantly, she calls voting Siv an "easy mark" but she also has Siv as her second top scumread - surely she should be understanding where RCE is coming from on this rather than criticizing him for it? Like I don't get the attitude of calling a scumread an easy mislynch.

Can someone who townreads Baezu tell me why? If anyone explained it already I totally missed it but I don't think they have.

This is the meat of it. I think 1159 is an opportunistic swing on a read for shaky reasons. At this point I've decided that, although the pt quote is quite strongly town indicative, there's still enough reasons to sr Baezu to kind of override that.

[Ausuka]

Anyway, I give ausuka more and more townpoints as the game goes on because she’s doing research, asking questions, waffling and overall trying to figure things out. Now that my paranoia about that slot is gone, she’s my actual #1 town read

[Ausuka]

I just quoted the part where it does? Even if there was literally nothing there the 1159 honestly still justifies a vote there imo.

[Ausuka]

@Slaxx, You have Ausuka as a strong townread. Aside from you and Ausuka, {Alchemist, Vork, and HitAlt} were also on Baezu's wagon. Assuming there was scum on Baezu's L-2 wagon, which of those three do you think would be the most likely scum?

I'm not completely convinced that you are scum. Your predecessor had some questionable things in his ISO, and I'm trying to determine if it comes from a scummy mindset or if he just has a... awkward way of conveying his thoughts. That's why I'm engaging with you right now to try and help me determine your alignment.

Also, what do you think of FL's sudden 180 on me? He went from this:

Don’t assume it’s 10v2. This site’s been having some weird stuff lately.

I just won a 9v4 scum game, 9v3 is still viable. Maybe 9 v 2.5.

I had a theory that Cby was just scum, but Volxen post was really townie to me.

Pointing out Ausuka doesn’t likely link that as scum is townie. I don’t see a reason to comment on that either way if Volxen was scum.

Like I said, I’m starting this whole chain of actions way of finding scum, but that single chain strikes blue.

To this:

VOTE: Volxen

He made the big one post, and I think it was a scum play now.

Scum like to break apart the Vorkuta-Flavor combo.

(Aus, Vedith, Alch, RCE)
(Vork, FL)
(Fus, HitAlt, Baezu)
(S_S)
(Volxen)

VOTE: Volxen

I don’t like that all Volxen has done so far is pry a bit at me and call Ausuka town. I slept on it and I don’t like the wagon directing either. I also don’t like how’s he is subtly reframing things people are saying. Like, when I said I was concerned that his only content was Ausuka related he switched that to me discouraging him from sharing reads. There’s a piece of me that thinks maybe I could have been more explicit about it but I feel like what I said was fairly self-explanatory.

S_S is probably a pretty malleable read, I go back and forth.

Both these players I feel like I have to pull teeth to get content from and I’d be surprised if they were both town. I know people are less confident on Alch than I am but trust me there.

I claim VT.

I think Slaxx is very likely scum here. Not only has he hydra'd with me before in Lynchpin (link: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=78192), but he has seen town!me as well in Kids with Guns (link: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=78188) and Lovers and Losers (link: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=78159), and he knows I'm a heavy analytical/mechanical player. It shouldn't surprise him that I would do VCA like that, even on a day one wagon before any flips have taken place, and yet he thinks I was being scummy/opportunistic with the VCA. I do this kind of VCA a lot as town, because I think it's probable that either Baezu is scum or at least one of the five people on her wagon is scum. Slaxx apparently thinks that's not a reasonable conclusion for town!me to come to based on Baezu's wagon.

I have a hard time buying that he is as convinced about me being scum as he claims to be based on our history together. And if he has looked at some of my other town games besides the two that we have played together, he would also know that I usually don't become strong town or obvtown until day two or later. I frequently get wrongfully accused of being scum on day one. If he is scum, it makes sense that he would want to push me as a day one deadline lynch, when it would still be "easy" to get me mislynched. The one thing that is giving me pause is that I observed his town game in Forest Fire (link: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=78729), and he was wrong in a lot of his reads in that game. But his push on me just doesn't seem genuine; it doesn't come across like wrong!town.

He starts out by calling me underwhelming. I then point out some of his predecessors posts which pinged me. He says I am "dancing around" a scumread on him, and then when I actually try to engage him he doubles down on scumreading me and votes me for me. He has made next to no effort at engaging with me, but he is fully content with me being lynched today. It feels like he was going to "arrive" at a scumread on me regardless of how I reacted towards his slot. I don't get the sense that he is someone who is really trying to determine my alignment, because I think he already knows my alignment.

Ausuka has played with me before, and I'm a bit surprised at her quick jump on to my wagon considering she saw me get mislynched as town in Purgatory (link: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77737) because I "didn't have a lot of posts". However, she doesn't have the kind of firsthand experience with me that Slaxx has, and I still think her ISO is overall towny and she is likely just wrong!town.

VOTE: Slaxx

Volxen, why are you claiming at L-2? Also, I really agree with Slaxx’s recent reads list- I think SS and Volxen are the scummiest people here

Why not claim at L-2? I probably will get up to L-1 at some point. I don't think I can realistically stop my lynch anyways -- I just claimed VT, and if we wagon someone else, they may claim a town power role. So there is risk in starting another wagon against someone else. I also don't have the "standing" to push a Slaxx lynch through. But I am convinced that Slaxx is scum, so if I am going down today then the best thing I can do between now and the end of the day is to try to appeal to the vig (if there is one) to shoot Slaxx on night one so we can go into day two with a scum flip. That way on day two we are already down one scum and you all can start looking over Slaxx's associatives to look for his partner(s). Any town mislynch is not good (even a VT mislynch), but if scum!Slaxx gets vig-shot during night one that at least somewhat offsets the damage caused by my misylnch. So my goal for the remaining time that I have left in this game is to make the case for scum!Slaxx.

In case I do get quickhammered, these are my suggestions to our town power role(s) for their night actions:

1) Vigilante: Shoot

Slaxx

. I STRONGLY believe that he is scum.

2) Investigative/Cop: Investigate either Flavor Leaf or Baezu. There is a good chance that one of them is scum.

3) Doctor: Protect Ausuka or RCEnigma. They are both likely targets.

Yes, we can catch scum!FL because he slipped up and gambitted a roll that's not allowed. Naive.

Observation about Ausuka- in addition to my suspicions and issues with some of her arguments which I outlined in #1013, I noticed that she's the one REALLY focused on the mechanical aspects of the game (FL's role/setupspec/meta-vs-nonmeta-reads). This pings scum to me, so I'd like some Meta feeback for this.

So far the case I have for a scum!Ausuka:
-Early questions/reads/mechanical analysis to get universal town points, AND to make town waste posts/discussion on topics that are... for lack of a better term "unproductive" by throwing a wrench in the works.
-Mid D-1 lowest-hanging fruit (Baezu) wagon and quite the tunnel on her.
-Late D-1 "reluctant" switch to Volxen
-Almost-end-of-D1 "disruption" and organizing chaos while trying to prevent/delay the hammer.
and otherwise maintaining a quite a low presence in between.

This could stand regardless of how Baezu and Volx actually were to flip.

My biggest issue with making her my scum!suspect #1 is that there was probably a better way to get off the volxen wagon than the way she did.

Why would you think that Ausuka is likely to be scum regardless of my flip? If I get lynched today and flip town, I think that pretty much confirms beyond any reasonable doubt that Ausuka is town, regardless of whether she rejoins my wagon or not. If I am town and Ausuka is scum, what is her motivation in leaving my wagon at this point? If she is scum and wants to avoid my wagon for VCA purposes, I don't think she would join it to begin with. I don't really see a scum motivation in joining my wagon, allowing me to get up to L-1, and then leaving my wagon and putting her vote back on Baezu. All it's done is open her up to criticism, when it would be easy for scum!her to just "go with the flow" and stay on my wagon.

Please... don't have her as your number #1 scum suspect, or as a scum suspect at all.

these are all townposts.

[Ausuka]

I don't want to nolynch. I think there's a decent chance we have a role, like a 1-shot vig, which would take us back to odds, or a protective/roleblocking role could do the same. Besides, I kinda want two flips to help d2.

[Ausuka]

1. HitAlt
2. Flavor Leaf
3. Baezu
4. Fuscosco
5. Slaxx SIV36
6. Vorkuta
7. Alchemist21
8. Ausuka
9. volxen
10. RCEnigma
11. Vedith
12. Something_Smart

{Ausuka, volxen, RCE} are town. If there's scum here I am deeply pocketed.
{Slaxx, vorkuta, SS} are probtown. Alchemist can go here too because I guess he's town conditional on Slaxx being the same. Hitalt has always been kind of gut town but I don't really feel strongly about that read anymore.
Fuscosco is null to me. I'll iso him later but rn voting there would just feel like a compromise lynch.
Baezu is scummy but unlynchable and I keep having doubts about her anyways so.
I'm probably voting FL or Vedith today, unless something changes.

RCE how sure are you exactly that FL is town?

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Vedith

[Ausuka]

we're not going to miss the deadline.

[Ausuka]

If we're going to have game related conversation can I get people's opinion on Vedith?

We're not going to no lynch guys. If Vorkuta doesn't hammer I will.

[Ausuka]

Have any of you actually played against scum me?
Actually wondering.

Yeah.

[Ausuka]

There’s a very specific reason I think Alch is town that I don’t want to reveal yet, but I’m very confident.

[Ausuka]

FL Vork Baezu
Not lynching.

I'm thinking Alch scum here.

FL Vork Baezu
Not lynching.

I'm thinking Alch scum here.

I'll return to this after a good nights sleep.
Not arguing on the potential of your Alch-read.
But both of Vork/Baezu as town?

Im tiwn
.

hit/alch/3

I'm thinking that scum came into today wanting to lynch Alchemist right now.

[Ausuka]

Also I'm a town 1 shot investigative and I have a result on somebody which I'll out later today.

@Baezu I think we'll lynch scum today so don't worry.

[Ausuka]

Vorkuta
HitAlt
Baezu
Alchemist21

Vedith
Fuscosco

Ausuka

RCEnigma

Are you saying that volx was an all town wagon?

[Ausuka]

only other possible wagon after that unvote is Ausuka now, but I’d rather go Volxen. We don’t need another claim this day phase. Volxen claimed VT, it’s the best route to go.

Flavor explain this read please.

Your D3 IC is a real claim if you're town right?

[Ausuka]

@Ausuka - do you think our protective should be on you over Boon tonight?
Interested to hear your opinion.

The protective can target whoever they want but yes I think I'd make a better target than FL.

[Ausuka]

I'm going to claim my result later. I think that, if I reveal it now, we might lose out on how scum plays around a slot that is confirmed to be innocent or guilty. So in the long run, I think that for now it's better to hide it. I'm definitely going to reveal it on d2 far away from deadline, though.

[Ausuka]

So I don't really buy into the FL-Slaxx scum team based on how 1,2,3 their interactions are. So I don't see them going hard 1v1 with each other sure (not saying they did here, just saying I think it's too basic for it to be the play) and they way they interacted was :

Slaxx: you aren't flipping your reads like you would as town.
FL: -flips reads-
Slaxx: well he did that thing I said he does as town.

FL wouldn't let scum theatre like that fly he would drive his partner into the dirt over it.

FL/Slaxx is never 2 scum. 1 between them I could see, it's still a weird interaction imo in isolation.

Incredibly easy to make case that ends up being complete fluff once one of us flip and while knowing we are both green.

Or he's just town and genuinely believes this and wants to put it out there.

FL shouldn't be investigated as he resolves himself. I have a solid read on him already but it won't matter till tomorrow and even then it's going to be largely ignored because he claimed for day 3 so people are gonna defend with that.

Protective should probably be on him though.

This is actively making sure an investigative doesn’t target me to clear me so there’s still that Flavor Leaf paranoia in the game.

Case in point, I am always a solid investigation for Night 1, no questions about it. RCE is the type of player who wouldn’t argue this as town, but could get away with it as scum.

Or he's just town who realized that

you shouldn't investigate a D3 IC claim

? Like, I had that exact same thought process too.

Pre-final read: FL is doing a lot of small town in things and I want to scumread him for every one of them.

This is a hatchet to halt any momentum townie things I’d be doing.

Or he's town and genuinely believes it.

FL what changes in your reads if Volxen flips town?

TMI

Or he just realized volxen was town and was planning for that.

Volxen is town, Ausuka is town, FL is town and scum biased but he'll figure it out. Alchemist would have been a way better Lynch today.

Setup for a future Alchemist lynch without hard pushing.

Or he believes Alchemist is scum because he hasn't really done anything, like a lot of people today.

This makes me want to rule out {RCE, Fusco, SS, FL} for now if we accept the premise Baezu is actually town here.

If these are all town slots, whew. Ausuka/FL/SS townblock would make me sweat as scum. Sorry fusco I think you're town I just don't know you as a player.

This is actually the most telling considering SS was killed. SS might not have been killed for a Vig crumb. I didn’t pick it up. Ausuka and I were just setup to be more targetable, and we were of this dangerous town block.

Also, the fact he made this list while omitting himself is scum indicative.

If we were pondering the Ausuka/FL/SS all town, he would also be a part of that block this he should have put himself in there as well. Even if you say he’s being hypothetical, he brings up it would make him sweat as scum, and it

did

make him sweat as scum. That’s why he killed SS. That’s why when you look in his ISO he has played completely in a way to simply survive a political game with Ausuka and Myself in this game, 2 of his self claimed threats to scum of town. He’s been pseudo defending us to keep us nice and not pushing him, while making sure he can turn on us if need be.

RCEnigma is scum.

Or he's just town and thinks Ausuka/FL/SS are experienced and therefore dangerous.

[Ausuka]

Baezu is town.

[Ausuka]

That information is valuable because it means we know for sure that both of the main d1 wagons were town. From this we can imply scum were secure. Vorkuta wagon was smaller than those two and I think vorkuta is town anyway.

So, scum probably did some distancing and had a kinda carefree attitude as they weren't under threat.

Unrelated mostly:

Volxen red flip means we lynch Ausuka tomorrow.

only other possible wagon after that unvote is Ausuka now, but I’d rather go Volxen. We don’t need another claim this day phase. Volxen claimed VT, it’s the best route to go.

I hate hate hate the attitude in these first two posts I've quoted here and I think it's fairly likely to be scum-motivated. As soon as I unvote volxen I'm accused of being his scumbuddy? Just for thinking he's town or what? This sort of posting advances a scum agenda because it discourages discussion ("if you disagree with us you must be scum so your concerns aren't valid"), is really lazy (even if volxen was red, town can defend scum) and lines up mislynches. Like, nobody here decides to try and convince me that volxen is town or anything, I'm just scum for even questioning his scumminess. I think scum were driving the gamestate in general late d1.

Ausuka probably scum regardless of flip after that post. "Town has been self descructing all day" seems to come from a scum mind set knowing who town is.

You mean from a post waaaaay before any of this?
No, it does not justify the vote here

I think this is Vedith trying to set me up as a viable mislynch because I don't think it makes sense for town to do this, like at all. I doubt Vedith has never seen people make general assessments of the gamestate without exact alignment knowledge. And the second post is just ???. Do reasons have Best Before dates now?

If me Ausuka and Volxen are all alive tonight then Vig shoots in these 3.
Then we lynch in these 3 until there are 2 red flips.

Fuck, I'm good at this game.

He is way more confident in this than he should be at this stage.

Ausuka is literally like the most obvtown player in this game at this point. If Ausuka is scum and her goal was to get multiple townies up to L-1 and force out multiple claims, then why did she derail the original Baezu wagon (which only got up to L-2/five votes)

BEFORE

getting a claim out of Baezu? If she is scum, she could have easily kept the pressure on Baezu until she claimed. If Baezu had claimed a town power role, her wagon would have dissolved on its own. If Baezu claimed VT and scum!Ausuka wanted to run another person up to L-1 to force out another claim, then she could have waited until

AFTER

Baezu claimed to quote that post from the GameShow Mafia game to help dismantle the Baezu wagon post-claim. If Ausuka is scum and her goal is to force multiple townies to claim, then she sabotaged her own efforts by dismantling Baezu’s wagon at the time that she did (assuming the scenario where Ausuka is scum and Baezu is town).

So the scenario of scum!Ausuka, town!Baezu, and town!Volxen simply makes no sense. Her trajectory of being on Baezu’s L-2 wagon, dismantling her wagon before she claims, joining my wagon, and then putting her vote back on Baezu after leaving my wagon doesn’t make sense if she is scum.

Scum post

I don't understand why 1276 would ever be a scumpost. Volxen is literally thoroughly arguing a point with his own townflip as a prerequisite. How is that scummy? At this point I think Vedith is just scumreading Volxen for whatever he posts. This could be tunneled town I guess but even in a tunnel I don't understand how you could think 1276 is scummy rather than NAI, especially when he was like:

Volxen is a bad lynch here at all times

a few days ago.

[Ausuka]

1. HitAlt
2. Flavor Leaf
3. Baezu
4. Fuscosco
6. Vorkuta
7. Alchemist21
8. Ausuka
10. RCEnigma
11. Vedith

{Ausuka, Baezu} are conftown fmpov.

I think {RCE, Vorkuta, probs Alch} are town.

{Flavor Leaf} is definitely not a townread but also not our lynch today specifically due to his claim.

Fuscosco needs to start playing and could be scum.

I'm not a big fan of Hitalt rn.

Vedith is my top scumread and although things could still change I think he's the lynch I want today.

VOTE: Vedith

[Ausuka]

Also - it feels very good to feel very good about Ausuka.

I wish I felt good about you

if vorkuta is town who do you think is scum?

pedit: lol

[Ausuka]

I'm thinking Alch scum here.

Hitalt RCE Fus?

Okay let's see it.
I have a soft guilty on Ausuka and his push means scum.

1 v 1 time.

VOTE: Ausuka

[Ausuka]

HitAlt’s is seducing me off his partner. This is like hatcheting, but instead of discrediting me while I’m pushing a partner, he’s working with me, and AtE’ing, and pulling on my strings to get me to move off his partner.

presumably, working from this, it means to discredit someone while they're pushing your partner.

[Ausuka]

Guys Vedith is never scum here. Trust me on this one.

Please can you clarify this.

[Ausuka]

Guys Vedith is never scum here. Trust me on this one.

Please can you clarify this.

No, that’s why I’m telling you to trust me. Call it gut if you want but it is what it is.

Unrelated, I’m not opposed to a fus wagon and we do need a good wagon going so

VOTE: Fuscosco

Oh nvm I thought it was a role claim.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Fuscosco

I think that the scum in this game, as long as FL is town, are probably Vedith, Fuscosco and Hitalt.

Baezu isn't scum. I feel like RCE, Vorkuta and Alchemist are town here. RCE because he feels genuinely scumhunty, Volxen thought he was town really strongly to the point where he called doc on him, and besides he backed me up on volx before anyone else did so I want to believe he's town here. Vorkuta's case on me feels genuine in that he put in lots of effort into a case that wasn't convincing and wasn't towny; it just seems like a town-motivated thing to do, and he feels genuine here lately also. Alchemist because Slaxx had a real, substantial reason according to him Alch was town and I've no reason to doubt that, and literally every one of {Hit, Fus, Vedi} said he was scum and the lynch coming into today so of the four of course I'm going to believe that he's town.

That leaves Fuscosco, Hitalt, and Vedith. Fuscosco hasn't done much except selfvote constantly and lecture me about claiming. Hit pushing lynches in {Baezu, Vorkuta, volxen} feels suspicious considering volxen and Baezu are both town confirmed and their pushes have been confined to those three for quite a while now. I mean, even if Vork is scum there are still two scum outside of that right? And I've ISO'd them and I can't see their case, to be pushing on Vork so strongly. Vedith I've already talked about enough.

I'm not, like, totally convinced this is the solve, but I feel decent about it for now, and Fuscosco makes a good wagon as things stand.

[Ausuka]

I should've warned about L1, sorry - I knew Vorkuta and Alchemist were voting him but failed to take the selfvote into account.

[Ausuka]

Ausuka, thoughts on the hammer?

idk. I fell into the same trap of forgetting that Fuscosco is permanently selfvoting for basically no reason at all so it'd be a bit hypocritical of me to sr it.

[Ausuka]

Vorkuta what precisely do you want me to talk about?

I think this will flip red - that shouldn't be a surprise since I read the wagon as all-town. If it

doesn't

flip red, and the mod doesn't conftown FL d3, I have no issue with you guys lynching him.

[Ausuka]

Vorkuta what precisely do you want me to talk about?

You claimed a 1-shot investigative result.
The day is over(?), and you might die before sharing that result.

I already said that I have an innocent on baezu?

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Vorkuta

We're massclaiming today. This is the day before lylo (this power minus probably 1 fakeclaim is what I'd expect. It's super suspicious that he still refuses.

[Ausuka]

Then we can wait for Vedi I suppose although I think it'd be better if you just claimed now so we can finish this quicker.

UNVOTE:

[Ausuka]

@vedith; we're massclaiming and you're meant to be next, so you should claim too.

i don't necessarily disagree about FL actually but I want to finish the massclaim before jumping to any conclusions.

[Ausuka]

Vorkuta, I think you should claim now while we wait for Vedith.

Town loses if the vig dies tonight

What makes you think this? How do we know there's another vig at all?

[Ausuka]

Vork should claim. It's too late to cancel massclaim. Even if we do lynch scum in FL today we should be able to look at its results before scum can eliminate one of us tonight. I realize Vorkuta is most likely a VT anyways but I think we should get full information.

[Ausuka]

There is a need for more information because that's how we solve the game.

[Ausuka]

i didn't want to say this but i've noticed something about the claims that makes me want to get the full picture; vorkuta's claim will likely help us, even if it is VT like I'd expect. also, i think it'd be helpful to co-ordinate actions, so just let me have this.

[Ausuka]

Flavor Leaf (n2 vig)
Baezu (vt presumably)
Vorkuta (vt presumably)
Alchemist21 (2-shot doc)
Ausuka (1-shot invest)
RCEnigma (loyal doc)
Vedith (role that can generate soft-guilties)

[Ausuka]

Why can't we have two doctors here? Like, people seem very willing to believe we have 2 vigs, in a 12 player game, which could result in d2 mylo, but not two doctors when one of them is gated with two-shot and our vig is macho?

[Ausuka]

Hit was the least suspicious one. He was even voting Vorkuta yesterday.

What do you mean?

[Ausuka]

the least suspicious teammate on our team

Where are you getting this from? Why do you think Hit was the least suspicious player on your team?

[Ausuka]

i'm 99% sure nobody was townreading hitalt; any towncred they had was burned out by how they kept going on about how scum was definitely in {Baezu, Vorkuta, volxen}. If we lynched you d3, I would've voted for them d4 and I don't think I'd be the only one to do so.

I seriously don't understand how you can claim here that you're not suspicious at all. There was no scumkill present on n2, you didn't shoot n1, Hitalt had become an useless role and wasn't actually doing anything, you could have skated to endgame based on that claim, our vig already flipped - and a full vig- and we could have had MyLo on day 2 if you were town and shot somebody n1. Like I don't even plan to lynch you today rn, because tonight you have a chance to prove yourself by making an unique kill, but you're not towny.

[Ausuka]

Vorkuta not claiming even though he was online this morning makes me suspicious. Like, I said that I had specific thoughts about the setup that made his claim (vedith i'm taking to be a vt claim based on his awful pr fakeclaim earlier) necessary and I feel like he should be more cooperative about this.

Also I've seen scum kill themselves before, twice.

Baezu, it's true that I'm not conftown if FL is scum, nobody has said that I am. I guess you just have to ask yourself if you really think I'm scum here.

[Ausuka]

how on earth is flavour leaf confirmed town

[Ausuka]

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=71908

Scum (Syndesis) kills scum (Vedith).

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=63582
Scum (Davsto) kills scum (Sound of Silence)

[Ausuka]

Who claimed protection last night?

According to claims, I was protected by RCEnigma and Alchemist, so if scum attempted to kill anybody it would have to be me.

The claims are:
Vorkuta (vt until otherwise)
Vedith (unclaimed but probably VT fakeclaiming)
FL (1-shot vig)
Ausuka (1-shot invest)
RCEnigma (Loyal Doctor)
Alchemist21 (2-shot Doctor)
Baezu (VT)

[Ausuka]

We can lynch you and lynch confirmed scum.
Tomorrow you claim a roleblocker or something stupid and I don't trust the players in this game considering you wasn't lynched already.

I have a hard guilty on you though.

You don’t.

And wanna know the best part about why this makes you scum.

You have to claim a guilty on me because you thought I had an extra night kill.

I’M A FUCKING 1 SHOT!!!

Flavor Leaf (n2 vig)
Baezu (vt presumably)
Vorkuta (vt presumably)
Alchemist21 (2-shot doc)
Ausuka (1-shot invest)
RCEnigma (loyal doc)
Vedith (role that can generate soft-guilties)

I’m 2 shot, not night 2, but this is its

[Ausuka]

5x VT
1x 2shot Doc
1x Loyal Doc
1x 1shot Vig
1x 1-shot Invest
1x Macho Vig
2x Mafia (Goon/Roleblocker/1-shot Strongman ?)
1x Mafia multitasking 2-shot doc

I'm not a balance expert but I think we have one fake claim here (removing Vedith.)

[Ausuka]

Also lol Vorkuta logged on at 5pm apparently.

VOTE: Vorkuta

[Ausuka]

Yep, we have three doctors if all the claims are true. One of them is a scum doctor though which makes it a bit less awful because town doc + scum doc play mostly like different roles.

[Ausuka]

Anyway I don't want to analyze the setup too closely yet because, as I said, I've noticed something is amiss. And I'll be able to press on with that once massclaim is done, which is why I'd like Vorkuta to just confirm he's a VT.

[Ausuka]

Doesn't really matter what my specific role is but sure I'll claim after vork does.

pedit: If he's town fakeclaiming, does that make you town?

[Ausuka]

I’m fucked, if there are two scum, whichever wagon I jump on has the potential to quickhammer

Ausuka, what should I do?

If you're unsure, you don't have to vote at all yet. We have 11 days.

[Ausuka]

Vork if you're a PR somehow (what is this game even if that's true) RCE is a doc or scum claiming doc. If he's doc then if you have an important role he will protect you. If he's scum he outs himself by killing you right?

I literally just want to finish the massclaim.

[Ausuka]

It is.

do you have arguments other than "scum wouldn't kill one of their own players to claim vig"?

[Ausuka]

Yes, in the first one.

[Ausuka]

There were 8 players alive 5v3. It would be 4v3 if they killed town. That's the same situation as here.

It became 5v2. They got a ml through with the vig claim towncred making it 3v2. They were caught because there were too many PR claims and their play was quite scummy so town figured out that scum killed their own.

Also I Ctrl+F'd the normal game archive. I found three 13p games with an odd night and even night, one with a n2 and n3 and one with a 1s dayvig and 1s nightvig.

But nothing comes close to a 12p game with a FULL vig and 1/2 shot vig.

[Ausuka]

Fl why exactly did you shoot Hit?

[Ausuka]

It's true that they softed doc (they also repeatedly asked who a protective should target) but I don't understand how that follows into them being a scum doc specifically.

[Ausuka]

Yes we can but it becomes Lylo.

[Ausuka]

Fl/Alchemist is kinda the obvious solve here yeah. As I said though there's something off that might change things - which is why we shouldn't lynch yet and Vorkuta just needs to claim already.

[Ausuka]

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=75391

This is also evidence related to FL. Specifically I'm talking about the part where he kills Tchill who is a free mislynch essentially.

[Ausuka]

Subject: Mini Normal 1996: Mafia Hideout

Well, Tchill’s gotta die or else I have no chance at living. The town stated I have to shoot Tchill.

This has close parallels to the situation even if it's not exactly the same. Since his partner Mumble was mostly townread, the best thing would've likely been to take another kill and FL and Tchill would both be lynched. However he killed Tchill to back up a vig fakeclaim and town lynched both scum from that point forward. This casts doubt on the claim that he'd always prioritize his scummates I think.

[Ausuka]

Nope, town won.

[Ausuka]

FL how did you know there was a protective?

I get most of your thoughts but I don't get really how they link to Scum!Hit other than the part where you townread Vorkuta. Like, Vedith is scum and that means Hit is the doc? Idgi.

If we lynch FL sure I'm down for that.

[Ausuka]

I am a Town 2 shot Neapolitan.

On Night 1, I targeted Baezu, as I said, and found her as a VT. In case I died, or people wagoned Baezu, I wanted to out this.

On Night 2, I targeted Vorkuta. He is not a VT. He therefore is lying scum.

VOTE: Vorkuta

[Ausuka]

I think the scumteam is Vorkuta and Alchemist. I would've had trouble choosing between FL and Alch, but I thought FL's analysis was actually really genuine.

[Ausuka]

Vedith claimed rolecop who got a vanilla result on FL eventually but I think it's transparently a fakeclaim just like his d2 "guilty" on me.

[Ausuka]

Alchemist is 2 shot.

[Ausuka]

Besides if FL has another shot I think it would be better to let it go through to confirm him as town.

[Ausuka]

Vorkuta never pushes me like that with Alchemist as his teammate.

That’s a Vedith play

Why not? Vorkuta pushes you, Alchemist just pops in and makes posturing comments about how you're town. When you're lynched Alchemist looks towny for being the only one who defended you.

[Ausuka]

My main concern with Vedith/Vorkuta is:

VT
VT
VT
VT
Town 2 shot Neapolitan
Town 2 shot Doctor
Town Loyal Doctor
Town 1 shot Vigilante
Town Macho Vigilante

Is this a real town?

One more VT seems likely right? You get that with any other team.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Alchemist21

[Ausuka]

If I'm scum I could literally just have won yesterday with FL's plan?

[Ausuka]

? I'd literally have to be a gamethrower to be scum here? Nobody suspected me or Vork to any extent. Lynch FL, kill Baezu, lynch Vedith, win.

The setup makes sense with Alchemist as scum, imo.

Loyal doc, macho vig, 1s vig, 2s neapolitan vs goon, doctor, 1s strongman or whatever they have, works.

[Ausuka]

Idk, does Vedith sit at his computer and think "you know who I should try to mislynch today? the investigative who just claimed a guilty on scum."

[Ausuka]

Oh that's a hammer wtf.

Yeah I'm definitely planning on it

[Ausuka]

the nokill points to rce but evidence is still overall against alch and honestly after that shitshow of a d4 I just want to end it.

VOTE: Alchemist

[Ausuka]

be more specific. what is the writing on the wall?

[Ausuka]

be more specific. what is the writing on the wall?

Go read my posts.

I did and I still don't understand what you're getting at.

[Ausuka]

all that information was available d4 and yet you voted vedith for flimsy reasoning. why?

[Ausuka]

Ok FL if you want to fight this you're probably town so let's talk about this. Why do you think it's RCE rn?

The points I'm mostly thinking about are that

1) RCE has just felt like town this entire game (vedi thinking this too improves the strength of this read)

2) the way rce played d3 was a lot townier than Alchemist. rce engaged with d3 on a way better level like he cared about what was happening. he doubted your claim but also gave you the benefit of the doubt and didn't want to lynch you. he considered positions more and felt more genuine. in comparison alch just kept making empty useless posts like 1971 and 2043 and 2073. He never actually entertained the idea of FL being scum. He'll argue this is because he was obvtown for killing scum but since so many people sr'd FL you'd think he'd at least entertain the possibility he was scum. he didn't even read the games I linked when scum killed scum before I pointed out that one of those situations was parallel to our situation and, even after that, he didn't seem to reconsider his position whatsoever.

Subject: Mini Normal 1996: Mafia Hideout

Well, Tchill’s gotta die or else I have no chance at living. The town stated I have to shoot Tchill.

This has close parallels to the situation even if it's not exactly the same. Since his partner Mumble was mostly townread, the best thing would've likely been to take another kill and FL and Tchill would both be lynched. However he killed Tchill to back up a vig fakeclaim and town lynched both scum from that point forward. This casts doubt on the claim that he'd always prioritize his scummates I think.

He made a bad kill on Town as scum, therefore he would kill his partner as scum? That makes no sense.

This I think is an argument in bad faith.

3) his Vedith vote is horrible. Vedith's push on me and the unvote were extremely obvtown and he jumped on it, saying that it makes sense if he saves alch vs rce to lylo because that's the only way he wins? what on earth? that makes no sense. if it's a 1v1 he just lynches both alch and rce and wins. on the other hand; if he pushes rce today and presents it as a 1v1 he doesn't get to save it for lylo. getting the vedi ml first makes more sense.

4) his 100% certainty that RCE is "outed scum" d3 and then decided out of nowhere to vote Vedith is really scummy.

[Ausuka]

alchemist didn't vote vedith for faking a guilty. alchemist voted vedith for this.

...

Vedith what is it with you and pushing the people who have actually bagged scum?

I’m actually thinking you’re scum now because it works out perfectly for you if the 1v1 between me and RCE lasts until 3-p Lylo because that’s the only way you scrape by.

You were the only one pushing the idea that 2 Docs could exist here too so maybe you knew that was true because you knew RCE and I are both Town.

he voted vedith because he pushed a really obvtown player who couldn't be mislynched - that's not scum indicative at all. his narrative also doesn't explain why Vedith went from voting FL to me.

also the "pushing 2 docs is TMI" argument is really reachy. like, sure, it's possible it could be TMI. or he's town and just reasoned that if 2 vigs can exist (which a lot of people accepted completely without question including Alch) so can 2 docs.

[Ausuka]

fl are you trying to talk to me or drown me out so you can get your way?

[Ausuka]

Ok, thank you. I can't type as fast as you can and I can't keep up with you right now so if that's ok it'd be great if you could slow down a little. you're pumping out a lot of things very quickly.

When I made the comments about RCE and Vedith both trying to appease and Vig hunt, RCE even admitted to doing it, but in a different way. Vedith didn’t even comment on it really. Vedith is now flipped town.

RCE’s ISO when you put in Hit and Vorkuta are both scum show their cohesion and their trajectory, and how he was containing everyone.

2 days ago, RCE kept staying out of the hard discussion, and said things like “If it’s Alchemist and FL...” which is what vedith was pushing without saying until afterwards. Vorkuta hard pushed me. Hard.

There wasn’t a bone in my body that felt Alchemist would have voted me there that day either, but I was feeling like RCE was acting like he wasn’t going to, but would have “compromised”.

That then would have setup a Flavor-Vedith or Flavor-Alchemist mislynch path which was victory for Vorkuta/RCE.

RCE also said he’d dig into me if this was my scum game; I have had scum say this to me before in the exact same scenario, so that set me off. It was a way to gain my trust, which it does, but scum do that. I’ve seen it. ZZZX did it to me years ago, and in reverse, and post game he felt so bad. It’s why I like to keep my Moral playstyle for mafia, because you can play a little rough and rowdy, but don’t Heel it up that hard.

1) Vedith and RCE could have reacted differently to you for a lot of different reasons, for example their situations being very different genuinely. I don't see any reason to assume the difference is alignment indicative.

2) Okay I'm going to be honest. Their ISO is 538 posts. This is going to take a very, very long time to confirm and even then there is no guarantee I'll see what you're getting at. If you actually read through their joint ISO can you point me to key points in the game that illustrate the point you're making?

3) You think so? I don't think RCE did anything like that. He talked about keeping you alive due to sorting for night actions, and considered you being scum without talking about being 100% levels of sure like here:

You can straight face 100% say that I, as scum, chose to shoot my partner, not go to Lylo today, all for the chance I’d just live?

Um...yes. it's the flashy play. It's the play you brag about post game and tell everyone you can't believe it worked. RC does the same thing and gets frustrated that people factor things like this into his range. It comes with the reputation.

Honestly I think this play is MUCH better than Alchemist coming in and asserting you're town without really doing anything to prevent your lynch at all.

4) You're very likely right Alchemist wouldn't have voted you, he didn't really need to. I don't see how that makes him town, though. FL-Vedith is a winning path for Vork-Alch, too. Even if Alch wouldn't vote you, you were the only real lynch candidate at that point and his help wasn't needed.

5) I think either alignment could do that and don't really see how it points to RCE!scum.

Alchemist had zero reason to defend me the way he was.

RCE would have voted me. It’s obvious by the way he was posting that day. He was just posturing.

If I were to have been lynched, Alchemist would have won, even if he ended up going down.

What does get me is he did call Vorkuta more likely stubborn town than scum, but I thought that too.

Does he need a reason to defend you? Like, as an example, when I play scum, I don't immediately think, "I should call the most suspicious person scum"- I consider defending them too because it makes me look better on the flip. Once Alch commits to that I don't think he'd change his mind as scum. RCE said he could sort you at night and pleaded with me to vote Alch so I don't think he was just posturing. While you're right that Alch would've won if you were lynched, again his vote was in no way needed for that.

RCE is the one that pushed the 2 docs is TMI thing by Vedith

RCE brought it up. Alch adopted it and used it to justify his Vedith push, with an actual vote. RCE didn't vote Vedi.

[Ausuka]

I don’t think they all were on that Baezu wagon alone.

Why not? That's one of the things that gets me actually; the Baezu wagon was strange. It built very quickly and then just stagnated. Why didn't scum jump on the wagon? Doesn't it actually make sense, if the answer all along was that they all decided to hop on it at the start? I mean, iirc you voted with your buddies as an unit in penguin mafia, right?

Also RCE- could we hammertest FL? If we're all wasting our time I'd prefer to find out now, than in two weeks time.

[Ausuka]

i mean if they team up twice isn't that more likely to be a direct result of them teaming up rather than a coincidence? idk

[Ausuka]

I'm still around but my vote's still on so I don't really need to be.

[Ausuka]

Alright so FL's town. That's good.

[Ausuka]

Ausuka why do you think I would be content keeping my vote off FL but feel a need to vote Vedith? Do you think I would see the guy who killed my partner and claimed he could kill again become a viable lynch and be like “nope i’ma keep this person in the game”?

I mean RCE specifically told us not to lynch FL and said he could sort him at night so like I think this argument would apply to both of you?

[Ausuka]

i mean, i didn't believe your d3 ic either and we can't both be scum.

[Ausuka]

i'm not scumreading you because you townread FL; i'm townreading you because i think the way you went about it was scummy.

i've been scumreading you since the later half of d3. i ranged between null and town before that.

[Ausuka]

I don't like that you wasted our time even if it was quite a small amount but gg. You played well.

[Ausuka]

fl i hate you

[Ausuka]

that was a lie i don't actually hate you but please don't do that to me ever again.

gg everyone and thank you very much for modding dannflor. i enjoyed this.

[Ausuka]

FL out of curiousity why did you decide to hammer Alch?

[Ausuka]

Well thank you very much

Sorry for pushing you d3. I was probably way more paranoid of you than I should've been because I saw close parallels there to a situation before where I'd been mislynched as a consequence of scum's decision.

[Ausuka]

because scum have done that before?

[Ausuka]

i don't get your point vorkuta. even if you think the idea is suboptimal, it's something scum players have proven they have done, so it has to be taken into consideration when there's a vig claim and no mafia kill.

[Ausuka]

i think you should consider the idea, yes. although to be honest it's not that likely of an occurrence and the only reason i thought it was quite likely here was that we already had a full vig flip.

I wouldn't do it but scum, like town, make bad plays sometimes.

[Ausuka]

Why wouldn't it be?

[Ausuka]

I might be biased but I think I'd probably win that 1v1, given that you were going to give exactly zero results that would be risky as scum, I conftowned Baezu earlier, and I was quite well-townread.

the doc claim would have been hilarious

[Ausuka]

Would have been funny if Vork also claimed doc

Simple Doctor? A doctor that can only target Vanilla players.

Or an informed n3 + n4 doctor

[Ausuka]

It was nice playing with the two of you, as well.

I remember that I thought that post was quite funny when I read it just because SS and FL and I have really different play styles and it was an ironic coincidence

[Ausuka]

I think my pool would probably be something like Vorkuta/alchemist/slaxx/HitAlt

Oh yeah I forgot about this post from d1. Well done RCE.

[Ausuka]

I mean then the next best thing would be to somehow "play" in a way that does not warrant an investigation from the Ausuka.
@Ausuka- WHY ME????
And wtf even is this line- it threw me way off and I "KNEW" (check scum PT) that you had more than one shot

even if it is VT like I'd expect

I started doubting if it was really wise to townread you. If the team was Hit and Vedith and Alch we'd win so my invest had to cover other players, and you seemed quite vanillaish, and FL claimed IC so I couldn't target him. So, you were the best target in my eyes. I don't know what you could've done to avoid it really. 9v3 is scum sided naturally so the PRs have to do stuff to balance it out.