Mini Normal 2071 (Game Over!)

[skitter30]

Hey all!

Hi luv! I think its been a while since i played with you!

@mod: regular vla fridays and saturdays, semi-vla this whole week. (I will def be able to post between now and friday but not necessarily regularly)

I thinj garmr's opening post probbaly(?) doesnt come from scum

VOTE: urap

[skitter30]

(I'm a she btw)

I dont think scum starts the game calling literally everyone town (including people who havent even posted yet!)

Its almost too audacious and has like none of the awkardness i associate with scum in rvs; that's coming from someone who feels very comfortable posting rn

(Also its not actual readslist, he literally calls everyone some flavor of town, its pretty obviously an rvs post/segue into making his rvs vote)

[skitter30]

VOTE: ruirui

This is the kind of rvs post i can see scum making ^^^^

(i'm not explicitly calling her scum for this rn, but noting that it comes from scum more than town imo)

[skitter30]

Town AGAIN? Really? Sigh...

VOTE: Ausuka

No naked votes allowed reeeeeeeee

i don't particularly like this post, the first line kinda feels like you felt the need to randomly share that you're town which feels a little ????? and meh

VOTE: ruirui

This is the kind of rvs post i can see scum making ^^^^

(i'm not explicitly calling her scum for this rn, but noting that it comes from scum more than town imo)

What do you mean by this? How come it comes from scum more?

i've noticed that scum sometimes find trouble figuring out what to say or do in rvs, and that instead of engaging with *already existing content* will sometimes pop in and make an empty vote; i find making an empty rvs vote in lieu of engaging with content that already exists to be scum-indicative, and have seen scum do this more than once. ausuka's rvs kinda looked like that to me

Why wouldn't you vote for Ausuka here instead of keeping your vote on a random person who hadn't yet posted?

idk
i usually don't switch my vote from rvs until i have a solid scumread; i don't have one rn and it didn't occur to me to switch my vote there

i think i can sort urap fairly easily which is why i put my rvs vote there

==

VOTE: ruirui

This is the kind of rvs post i can see scum making ^^^^

(i'm not explicitly calling her scum for this rn, but noting that it comes from scum more than town imo)

VOTE: skitter

it's literally just a naked vote and my standard entrance. why are you not explicitly calling me scum for it? if you think it comes from scum more than town, and the average player has a 1/4 chance to be scum, that's great odds on page 1. it feels as if you're afraid of entering a confrotantion so early more than anything else.

i don't think you're inherently scum for it, but i think that post comes from scum more often than town (which is not at all the same thing as thinking you're scum)

i don't think i've played with you much recently and i don't remember offhand what your regular rvs looks like

and i'm not afraid of entering confrontation (lol). i'm also not going to call you scum for making an rvs post that i disliked. it felt weird, so i noted it. it generated discussion (which i'm always a fan of in rvs!). do i think it's a bad post? yes. am i calling you scum and seriously pushing you for that? no.

i don't think that having an awkward entrance inherently makes you scum, it makes it something worth noting and to use to start generating discussion

==

i think inferno may be town

[skitter30]

i think i can sort urap fairly easily which is why i put my rvs vote there

orly

ok, do you think i'm being overconfident? lying about my ability to read you? something else?

[skitter30]

(I won't be continuing this discussion any further, though, as it's only likely to be a distracting theory debate and I've long since accepted that nonsense viewpoints on how to early-game are not a scumtell. Skitter's reaction to my vote is disappointing but not particularly indicative of scum.)

i mean i'll drop this too if you like but i disagree that i have a 'nonsense viewpoint' on how to earlygame

[skitter30]

fair enough

[skitter30]

VOTE: Exilon
I’m off-put by the tone here. Seems weird.
Skitter feels pushy
Sash feels reachy
Egix is NAI I think

egix partner

@urap is this a serious read?

[skitter30]

VOTE: Unvote

hey bob!
nice to meet you!

how much mafia experience do you have, may i ask?
why'd you unvote here?

[skitter30]

i think i can sort urap fairly easily which is why i put my rvs vote there

orly

ok, do you think i'm being overconfident? lying about my ability to read you? something else?

I think you read me correctly in both of our games, but in the second one you reversed and lynched my replacement, ya?

but I was really just puffing my chest a little ;P

I'm excited to play with you again!

excited to play with you too!

(i maintained that your slot was town throughout that whole game (and got flak for it!), got spooked off your slot's lynch about four times, and only ended up voting there as a compromise to make a lynch happen)

[skitter30]

Nice to meet you too

Use to play mafia on with a few people a year ago in a forum of a browser game but the after a while there wasnt enough people to make a full game.

Unvoted, as im testing the tags as its teh first time ive played mafia on this forum. I see peopel are usign one that makes unvote is that UNVOTE: . also does it need teh name of who we where voting for

the unvote doesn't require a name, voting does

do you have any thoughts on the game? any idea wrt who may be town? scum?

(@exilon i'm a she btw)

[skitter30]

Yeah, it's serious. Obviously not super strong yet

ok, why do you think inferno might be an egix partner?

==

This to me is a scumread, how could it not be? If you think someone's only post so far is more common from scum than from town, you think that person's scum.

because i can think that individual posts are scummy without thinking someone is holistically scum. i don't think that a bad rvs post makes someone scum. i think it means they made a scummy rvs post that requires further probing before i can make a determination wrt their alignmnet.
or to say it another way: it was scummy, but not *scummy enough* to make you a scumread

(and i think holistically your reaction was kinda townie too btw)

Okay, can you please explain why they're not the same thing? Because I don't see the difference when that's my only post in the game.

it was a bad post, sure, but not strong enough to make you holistically a scumread

or i guess another way ill try to explain: rvs posts in my mind don't carry enough 'weight' so to speak to call someone a full-blown out scumread over them. i'll call the post bad, sure, but i don't think it's a strong enough reason to call someone scum at that point in the game; it's something worth investigating further but not inherently damning

idk if i explained that better but i'll try again if you want me to

[skitter30]

hey exilon, do you have a read on me?

==

Also if I get the feelign mafia in there arguments would prefer to hide there arguments in group. By making it appear that thre arguments are in harmony with anotehr player that they virtue of being mafia know is town . Ive seen a few examples of that but nothing realy note worthy, just somethign givign me sligth feeling

can you show me an example of where you think this might be happening?

==

@skitter The first post I think is independently scummy. The second feels like redirect of of Egix. And the interaction between them goes no where. whole thing just feels wrong.

i don't think i'm seeing what you're seeing here; this read feels a little reach-y imo

also urap and bob probably (?) aren't partners together imo

oh wait reading more i think i'm mixing up egix and exilon; i can kinda see your thought process for egix/inferno but i don't particularly agree with it

==

inferno i think is town

==

78: First is my posting style and NAI, second is not simply “shade,”. It’s laying out my thoughts and sorting people, and I am not dismissing the reads on Egix, third, where else were you expecting that conversation to go on my end and where did I ever say I was now town reading skitter. I can scumread more than two people at a time.

so why didn't you mention skitter in your scum team?

? people can have scumreads and not teamread them (esp. early day1!)

==

Inferno you're moving a little too fast with your reads imo

ya think? recent posts are not from a town perspective

kinda disagree. don't think scum!inferno posts 89, for example
kinda think you might be scum here actually

==

This post feels weird and self aware. Coming out of a scumgame myself, this sounds like something I would say. (You know what I’m talking about Rui and Egix, the whole parroting thing.) But asa whole it doesn’t read as bad as I thought it did on first glance.

it was self-aware, i knew quite well that if i didn't put in the parenthesis people would ask why i wasn't voting there (hint: i wasn't actually scumreading her, it was a natural progression from the previous post - i showed an rvs post that i liked (garmr's) and then showed one that i didn't (ausuka's) )

[skitter30]

critic here, if that was your goal I would of phrased it differently Like in my post above it seems like preemptive defence and cuts a conversation line. If you are town you pretty much soured the bait if people thought that was the bit that was scummy. Unless your going for some sort of slayers gambit.

i don't really 'bait' people to do things

==

i think bob is kinda townie
atm townreads: bob, inferno, maybe garmr, maybe cdb

==

72 comes from town I think.

Like it actually looks scummy af but I think it actually reads townie from some new players.

Elaborate?

there's a nuance of thought-process there that i would be slightly surprised to see coming from new-scum

==

My thoughts exactly. The timing of it feels weird as well. I hate the term LAMIST but that’s how it comes across. As opposed to a sudden eureka moment.

what's 'it' referring to in this post?

[skitter30]

i'm getting some buddying-y vibes from you

[skitter30]

i'm getting some buddying-y vibes from you

@exilon

==

also i dont' think that scum!inferno really thinks to randomly make that post about uzi there really

[skitter30]

hey cdb, do you like town or scum more? which alignment do you think you're better at?

[skitter30]

you fall into that group of people that i want to townread for arguing well and for making sense, which is a bit of a blindspot for me
not entirely sure how i'll sort you

[skitter30]

i'm getting some buddying-y vibes from you

@exilon

I don't know what kind of comment you want on this

also i dont' think that scum!inferno really thinks to randomly make that post about uzi there really

My point was precisely that it wasn't rational (let me post this here), it was emotional ("I want to post about something else that lets me feel closer to town")

Anyway, does it invalidate the remaining case?

a) idk would you agree with me that my assessment of how you're interacting with me is accurate? do you think i'm mischaracterizing what you're doing?

b) i don't think it was a rational post, no. my point is that i think it's a post that is more like to occur to town!inferno, i'm not sure that scum!inferno would even be thinking about the game in those terms (and would be kinda surprised that if he was he'd even post it tbh)

c) i don't particularly like your case. it's a very ~logic~ oriented case, which is fine and all. the thing is that i'm not sure that *inferno* is such a logic-oriented player, so i'm not sure he's approaching the game from the same logical pov that you're analyzing his posts with. i kinda feel like you think you caught him in a logical gotcha! when i'm not sure that's how he thinks about the game at all. i'm also not sure if the contradiction you highlighted is even, like, scummy. i also think that it relies on some assumptions that aren't, like, necessarily true (namely that all of your scumreads don't have to form a teamread, esp. not at this stage of day1!)

i'm basically rn trying to decide if this is scum!you fabricating a case or if this is how town!you approaches the game. at the moment i'm leaning towards the former but i'm not sure yet

[skitter30]

a) eh fair enough. i do feel a bit buddied (namely in how you were defending me earlier) tho

b) yeah town!inferno is notation for 'inferno when he's playing as town'; scum!inferno is notation for 'inferno when he's playing as scum', and so on (pr!inferno is 'inferno playing as pr' etc)

c) you said this:

He seems to misunderstand the question and answers in Post 83with "because she's scumreads independent of Ur2 and Exi",

which only makes sense if you're assuming there's more than one anti-town team,

which .... okay, but it seems like a slip up, because, wouldn't wording it as "Exi and urap2 are scum together" be faster, more organic, and natural?

which i understood to mean that you're objecting to the fact that inferno was not scumreading me as being part of a team with his other scumreads urap and exi. i.e. that you think having scumreads but not reading all of them together as a team is problematic - that independant scumreads aren't a thing

i'm saying that i fundementally disagree with that (especially at this stage of the game) - i think it's entirely possible to scumread multiple people without viewing them holistically as a team

(fwiw mini normals are not allowed to have multiball these days btw)

what i mean by incorrect assumption is that you used that to build your case, and i'm saying that i disagree with this pov to begin with

[skitter30]

72 comes from town I think.

Like it actually looks scummy af but I think it actually reads townie from some new players.

i don't think this is the kind of post scum makes about their partner who's playing a surface-level scummy game thus far who'm nobody really shared reads on at that point - it's a dangerous position to take without knowing how the rest of the thread will perceive him.

if people decided to scumread bob (he's been getting some townreads instead) this would have been a ~risky~ position for urap to take on his partner

[skitter30]

VOTE: exilon

i think i want to go here

[skitter30]

As in: if there's only one team of scum, and if you think three people are scum, you're not going to say "the scum team is these 2 people", right? That's how I read it.

i think it's fine to say this at this stage of the game tbh

==

Skitter (mainly for peoples reaction to her than anything she has done herself.)

oh this is interesting. elaborate?

[skitter30]

No offence but early on you kinda looked weak. But as soon as you put up some fight people backed off. If you were scum I would see your scum mates trying to stick for you a little longer. Now everyone seems to be kissing ass except Ausuka. Ausuka reaction seems somewhat emotional to your accusation, Don't think it's a scummy one through because I don't see why scum would get emotional at that point.

oh no offense taken; i was mostly asking because i'm really interested in how people form reads on me, i find it fascinating

==

kinda think urap might be scum tbh
i dont' particularly understand his sash vote either

==

After some time thinking to myself I couldn't really form any strong scumreads in my mind, so I decided I might as well commit to voting Deli and see what came of it.

not sure scum says this really

==

Don’t get the point of this post. What incentive does Exil have to buddy you considering this is his first time playing with you?

idk if he has any particular incentive to do so as scum, but i did feel like the way he was defending me was kinda buddying-y

i kinda wanted to see if he would have any sort of interesting reaction to me saying that (like getting defensive or something or idk) but he didn't so that line of inquiry kinda fizzled out

Can you and/or Rui talk about experiences with Inferno as scum?

exactly none, it's based on my vibe for his personality/playstyle in this game thus far and elsewhere on site (ie speakeasy). i can absolutely be mistaken on this. still doesn't feel like a post i see him faking tho

I think the people I have struck out are town. I want to town read Rui. I want to town read Skitter but I can’t shake my paranoia.

that's ok, i'm kinda operating under the assumption that people being paranoid of me is a thing these days

==

current town list: bob, inferno, cdb, maybe egix, maybe ausuka

==

I think I'm going to quit playing Mafia, I always end up being lynched in the first days and that doesn't help town at all.

this ate is awful actually. i'm not sure it's scum-indicative but it's pretty bad irregardless of alignment
have i ever played with town!you?

[skitter30]

kinda want to go back here actually
VOTE: urap

[skitter30]

have you guys read sashadin's iso? Way better vote than exilon who is probably not trying to powerscum in the first ten pages and who is taking oddball views on things than the rest of the thread

VOTE: sashaddin

egix still scummy i think

inferno probably town

skitter probably town

Am i supposed to be understanding why you're voting sash from this?

I dont think any of the votes there are particularly compelling, but i kinda understand them. I really have no idea why you're voting rhere rn

[skitter30]

i'm not actually scumreading you inherently for your sash vote
idk if i actually have a good have a good reason (ie one i can articulate rn) for thinking you might be scum; atm it's largely a gut read. like i read your posts and think they feel ????? weird and wrong.
like weirdly timed. making weird observations. idk just feel weird.
your sash vote/post was one such post. it's not inherently scummy but it's another post that feels kinda off, and you've made a whole bunch of them.

like i don't follow your reasons for voting sash. i don't know what prompted you to read sash's iso there. i don't like how you started the post with 'hey anyone else read sash's iso?' ; it feels like you're trying to drum up support for a read that i don't really feel you necessarily ~have~ so much as trying to get momentum for this push

i can give you the weekend, sure, the game is early (by weekend i mean probably until like monday since i'm at least semi-v/la until then)
i'm going to circle back to this then tho

when u do have a chance:
1. why is sash's iso scummy af?
2. why is the ate-y reaction townie?

idk let's go here for now
VOTE: ruirui

pedit @urap

[skitter30]

72 comes from town I think.

Like it actually looks scummy af but I think it actually reads townie from some new players.

i don't think this is the kind of post scum makes about their partner who's playing a surface-level scummy game thus far who'm nobody really shared reads on at that point - it's a dangerous position to take without knowing how the rest of the thread will perceive him.

if people decided to scumread bob (he's been getting some townreads instead) this would have been a ~risky~ position for urap to take on his partner

That's interesting, cause it pinged me in the exact opposite way

Huh. I dont really see it as being partner-indicative really. Can you explain why you think it might be?

[skitter30]

Also i think cby may be town too

[skitter30]

If you don't lynch me first I'm sure I can appear towny

[skitter30]

none of the things you've described here feel scummy to me really

==

hey u2 it's the weekend, can we talk about how you feel weird now?
or at least answer the points i left in my last post for you?

==

1-scum have day chat (noticed that due to what I thought excellion gamble was)
2-No one has calling sash town
3-The generic response I don't know if I want to jump on the wagon. With no reason not to scum read sash or town read them.
4-Been ages with out a meaningful post
5-wagon starts to gain steam out of no where.
6-A lot of my town reads are on sash wagon including confirmed town and myself.

May be a bit premature but with all these points combined I think scum stayed silent on the sash wagon to see if it would dissolve naturally and rui rui was their planned counterwagon in their day chat.

a) wrt point 2: that's fallacious; a lack of being townie (or being called townie) != being scummy.

their reaction was bad and ate-y, sure, but i don't know that's inherently scummy. and nothing you cited earlier as a reason to scumread him has been particularly compelling to me. and none of the things you've listed here describe scummy play from him either really, so much as a describing a gamestate that you think points to sash!scum. i don't particularly agree with this analysis

b) who exactly are sash's partners that are pushing the planned counterwagon of rui?

==

But does scum ever say this?:

good point actually, i'm not sure that scum says this
also garmr + exilon prob not scum together

==

Hi guys, I don't think that Sash is mafia. I do think cby is suspicious or at least needs more sorting, and I find it weird that people are jumping on me without also considering him

VOTE: cbynumber

why should people consider him in particular before jumping on you?
also why is he suspicious?
(also going to point out that i'm on you and also have given a read on him so)

==

Um, hello. Sorry for the absence, I thought of quitting then I thought how I hate when someone quits on games I like, so here i am.

has town!you ever gotten this worked up about being wagoned before?

==

kinda think inferno v garmr is tvt

==

i like ausuka's 274

[skitter30]

It does to me.

it's not scum-indicative to sheep someone without explicitly calling them town
nor is not being obvious/explicit about planning on sheeping day1
nor is pushing two scumreads that nobody else are pushing

==

On a individual player yes 2 may be considered but when you get a whole group that shows a pattern. But yes this is a game state argument which has my own veiws factored in.

hmm I thought at the time CDB and egix which were my scum reads at the time (2 scum reads jump on the counter wagon of another scum read kinda leaves a impression.) But i'm not as sure on CDB anymore. So Sash,inferno,(egix or cbd being my stabs at the third scum).

i understand that you're saying that you see a pattern emerging wrt sash's position in the gamestate.

for me tho i don't really read sash's play as being particularly scummy rn, and i dont' find a gamestate read particularly compelling when it doesn't really correlate with my actual reads on people.

also i'm voting rui rn btw

i was kinda checking if you had someone particular in mind wrt the rui wagon or if you were just like generically shading the whole thing; i don't think you were doing that.

are your reads often dependant on associatives?

==

Sure you can but I thought I answered you and you acknowledged it. But how do I feel weird for you (also it's not my weekend I work hospitality so i'm always juggling a saturday or sunday.)

this was addressed to ur a person 2

[skitter30]

I feel complete apathy wrt the sash wagon. Like it just kinda is, dont really get why it happened

I think ausuka is town now

@exilon ur post just above feels kinda exactly like what a partner would say

Also i want to sort urap

[skitter30]

has town!you ever gotten this worked up about being wagoned before?

Very honestly no, this was atypical of myself. It's just that I don't seem to have that kind of problems in minis, only in larges. Plus, I had another game going on that wasn't too pleasant either. And some non-mafia related problems, to think of it. Maybe now I can see better in this one since my two previous things are gone.

Ok, the next question is have u ever reacted this way as scum?

[skitter30]

Bob is town too i think

I dont have a lot of scumreads honestly but i have a surprisingly large number of townreads

[skitter30]

I feel complete apathy wrt the sash wagon. Like it just kinda is, dont really get why it happened

I think ausuka is town now

@exilon ur post just above feels kinda exactly like what a partner would say

Also i want to sort urap

So I would guess that the reason behind your apathy is that there isn’t a real reason behind the wagon. At least that’s what I understand from the narrative surrounding the wagon.
I also agree on Ausuka!Town. But don’t worry about sorting UR2 because he’s scum.

Yeah i just dont get why its a thing really

[skitter30]

Yeah this probably makes Exilon the most suspicious of the Ruirui wagon; it feels like upon being associated to Sasha his reaction was that he had to disprove what I was saying.

This. Or like he wanted ro loudly declare his support for the sash wagon, and make sure everyone saw it, without actually doing anything about it

[skitter30]

How do you make a link back to prevous post. Like the ones when you click it, it links to the forum post of that number

I think this is what u mean?

[post]100[ /post]

Will link back to post 100 if u type yhat without the space between the '[' and '/'

[skitter30]

I feel complete apathy wrt the sash wagon. Like it just kinda is, dont really get why it happened

I think ausuka is town now

@exilon ur post just above feels kinda exactly like what a partner would say

Also i want to sort urap

was up super late last night. give me a bit more to wake up and i'll jump in. say like 30-60 minutes

Fair enough! Might not be around then, but i should be around this afternoon at some point, i'll be back to regular access on tuesday

[skitter30]

your sash vote/post was one such post. it's not inherently scummy but it's another post that feels kinda off, and you've made a whole bunch of them.

if a wagon hadn't formed immediately after my Sash vote, would that change how you perceive it?

no, why would it?
the point is that it felt to me like you were trying to get a wagon to form; whether or not you succeeded isn't particularly relevant to anything

(ie my point is that your intent is that matters here, not the outcome of the action)

==

146 it seemed off that they were surprised to get a town read on someone, I disagree on Bob, and I don't like that you're sitting here with your shiny new banner (grats btw) and they didn't think their town read on you even needed explaining in contrast to the other reads that were explained.

a) tyty
b) why is being surprised to have a townread on someone scum-indictive? (if anything i feel like that's probably an emotion that *doesn't* come from scum in this context)
c) why aren't you more paranoid of my shiny new banner? (wrt 318). i guess what i'm getting at why are you calling sash out for townreading me when you're pretty confidentally calling me town too?

His entrance (11, 16, 90 I think was an attempt to pocket you by pressuring you and then calling you town. I just don't believe that anyone thinks an rvs vote and a single shade post is going to rattle a scum-tell out of you at the start of the game, and 90 posts in I don't think you had really town-told yet, so I don't believe the progression.

don't think taht was a serious attempt to pressure me, or to pocket me. i can see the argument that he wasn't sure how to enter the game so he just threw the first vote down that he could think of.
don't really see ur argument tho. like why does he even start this game trying to pocket me, idk if he even remembers me from the one game we played together

i don't particularly see town in sash.
i also don't really see scum in him either

==

honestly not entirely sure why you're so confident in town!me rn; you're kinda talking like u know i'm town ...?

[skitter30]

This urap2 / Inferno390 exchange is so TvT I can't even
u guys pls

y is urap town?

[skitter30]

This is so WIFOM it hurts.

I'm suspicious even if I don't say anything, so I'd rather put it out there what my feelings are on the subject.

not really but ok
it was a showy post
it basically was there so people knew what ur feelings on the sash wagon were *without doing anything about it*

[skitter30]

c) why aren't you more paranoid of my shiny new banner? (wrt 318). i guess what i'm getting at why are you calling sash out for townreading me when you're pretty confidentally calling me town too?

I have a ridiculously inflated sense of my own abilities =) seriously, though, reasons~[/quot]

we can circle back to this at some point

[skitter30]

don't think taht was a serious attempt to pressure me, or to pocket me. i can see the argument that he wasn't sure how to enter the game so he just threw the first vote down that he could think of.
don't really see ur argument tho. like why does he even start this game trying to pocket me, idk if he even remembers me from the one game we played together

I don't have the understanding of him necessary to try and figure out why he targeted you if there was a reason, but I do think it looked like a weak attempt at pocketing you. It's more though that I don't understand the purpose of the posts from a town-mindset. It wasn't a real attempt to sort you, and if it wasn't that, then what was it?

voting someone in rvs semi-seriously is a weird way to try to pocket someone; idk why he'd want to lolpocket me either
you also realize that lack of inherently townie motive is not the same thing as scum motivation, right?
it's fallacious to push that imo, and that's basically what you're saying here - look, his posts aren't townie, so they must be inherently suspect

[skitter30]

honestly not entirely sure why you're so confident in town!me rn; you're kinda talking like u know i'm town ...?

I mean, your eye had turned towards me, and I had been and continued to give every opportunity for shade and a town read, but rather than take the bait you felt like you were trying to coax me into participating.

I think if you were scum, coaxing me into participating without pressuring me is probably the only way you could have played it that would be entirely outside your scumrange.

We both know I can be loud in a thread.

If you were scum here that knew I was town, you're not going to gently prod me into engaging and solving this game

no i probably wouldn't be, that's fair

ngl none of this has really reassured me of you being town, and i'm also a little paranoid because i don't think that scum!you tries to mislynch me here like ever; i think you nearly always try to pocket me till u can nk me so when i see you hard-townreading me and trying to get me to townread you i get a little nervous

[skitter30]

you rn

[skitter30]

i'm trying to figure out whether or not i want to vote you atm

[skitter30]

i wonder why

not really feeling town!you still
your posts just feel ~weird~ still
kinda paranoid you *are* trying to pocket me

pedit no i townread channel? why channel

[skitter30]

you fall into that group of people that i want to townread for arguing well and for making sense, which is a bit of a blindspot for me
not entirely sure how i'll sort you

this is probably a better way of describing my read on him ^^^^
idk if i actually townread him but i read his psots and agree with his logic and kinda want to townread him and i don't think anything you pulled out is really scummy either

this might be me falling into a blindspot but like for today/day1 i'm kinda content just townbinning him and reassessing later on

not really interested in wagoning there today

[skitter30]

bleh idk everything you're saying feels kinda reachy
like you're looking for things to push but like don't really believe it idk

[skitter30]

I'll see if I can actually find words for 382 tomorrow instead of just rolling my eyes at it. Yeesh.

like, this is clearly a guy hamming it up rn.

town can be dramatic, but it's gotta be scum indicative over all, ya?

like no why is this scum indicative
like if i don't think about it sounds good but if like i actually think about it ... why is this obviously scum indicative?

[skitter30]

VOTE: urap

sorry if i'm wrong, but i don't see town!you rn really :/

[skitter30]

like no why is this scum indicative
like if i don't think about it sounds good but if like i actually think about it ... why is this obviously scum indicative?

I think over reactions probably come from scum more than town?

I really don't think this is controversial, and I didn't say it was damning. I said that town can be dramatic, but that it's probably scum-indicative in the aggregate and I think that's absolutely true?

i dont think this is necessarily a thing really, i think this is more personality dependant than anything else

[skitter30]

VOTE: urap

sorry if i'm wrong, but i don't see town!you rn really :/

It's okay. We're all wrong sometimes. If you do manage to push this through, which I don't think will happen, promise me you'll reconsider on Channel?

def will, it's more like i'm fine townbinning him for *today*, if i'm around later (lol) i'll def reconsider it; i always do as the game progresses

this post feels kinda townie. or, at the very least, is something u know town says so you're saying it

[skitter30]

VOTE: urap

sorry if i'm wrong, but i don't see town!you rn really :/

It's okay. We're all wrong sometimes. If you do manage to push this through, which I don't think will happen, promise me you'll reconsider on Channel?

def will, it's more like i'm fine townbinning him for *today*, if i'm around later (lol) i'll def reconsider it; i always do as the game progresses

this post feels kinda townie. or, at the very least, is something u know town says so you're saying it

actually i want to untownbin him today
it's not so much that i actually scumread him so much as i remembered yet *another* time i fell into this blindspot and i want to be more cautious

[skitter30]

See after all this I really can't see urap2 being scum, it's a lot of self-exposition

and tonally it feels town to me.

but I'm going to need some time to chew through all these last pages properly.

i don't see it

[skitter30]

well I'm going to actively discourage your lynch, so if you are lynched and flip town, I will hold no blame.

I regret considering you as town already, this just looks bad and not from a town motivated view.
At this point there's no threat to this lynch happening but you are already writing it off as a town with very little doubt, and already preparing for the town credit on a town flip.

hi, can i interest you in the urap wagon?

[skitter30]

well I'm going to actively discourage your lynch, so if you are lynched and flip town, I will hold no blame.

I regret considering you as town already, this just looks bad and not from a town motivated view.
At this point there's no threat to this lynch happening but you are already writing it off as a town with very little doubt, and already preparing for the town credit on a town flip.

i mean, if you take it out of context and hide how i'm matching his language, sure

Hide how you’re matching Bob’s language?
That’s your reasoning?

Why would you even try to “match his language?”

To mock him? (Not saying your post style is mockable Bob, but this is a really really weird turn of phrase)
And why is this reasoning coming up now and not when I pointed out this post?

tbf i do this a lot too
not to mock really, more like a tongue-in-cheeck reaction
or i'll do it for emphasis, to indicate that i strongly agree or disagree with the bit that i'm replicating

[skitter30]

I sometimes still think I'll quit after I'm done here. I suck and I don't help my team much.

I decided to stay and play in newbies for a while. Might get me better faster. Anyone has another hint?

sash, i don't think you're nearly as bad as you're making yourself out to be?
or, at least, i'm not entirely understanding why you're so defeatist here?

[skitter30]

Sorry, I got distracted by a thing this evening. I can live with a Sash lynch (pending claim, I guess) because it feels like a slot on which we're not likely to get a great deal more data as time goes by. There's such an aversion there to committing to anything that could plausibly be either alignment but certainly

benefits

scum regardless.

Do still fully intend to drop a full would/would not lynch list but it looks like that's going to have to be tomorrow.

yeah i changed my mind, i don't townread this anymore

[skitter30]

it's not the sort of read i want to lynch today tho; i need to sit on it a bit while i think about it

still want to lynch u tho

[skitter30]

ooops got slots confused cancel that

? u were pushing channel yesterday?

[skitter30]

let's just lynch sash

^^^^^ bad reaction
especially in the event of town!sash

[skitter30]

Like, it's entirely reasonable to have me in a 'not sure, would lynch' pile right now. I would expect most people to have me around there right now. What's not reasonable is total confidence that you can PoE everyone on Day 1 and then go dig up a bunch of absolute nonsense to support an answer you already decided must be true.

So then why aren't you voting me

I HAVE LITERALLY ALREADY SAID THAT THIS KIND OF AWFUL EGO COMES FROM TOWN QUITE A LOT. READ MY POSTS RATHER THAN TRY TO PICK HOLES IN THEM FOR ITS OWN SAKE

this was town tho

right, this was a thing

who did you mean in 469?

and you and channel probably (?) aren't partners?

[skitter30]

lol

only been on this slot like a tic from lynch for days and days

Also, it's clear you need to work on your meta profile for me if that post pinged you

i actually did momentarily forget u were on the sash wagon
not sure how i forgot that, whoops

still don't like the post

[skitter30]

who did you mean in 469?

I can't answer this question

fair enough

[skitter30]

sash, i don't think you're nearly as bad as you're making yourself out to be?
or, at least, i'm not entirely understanding why you're so defeatist here?

Bipolar type A in a down phase having a bad streak at this game. I'm usually more cheerful and happy. I always get scumread first on large games, that's why I assumed I was doing something wrong.

hope ur down phase ends soon

[skitter30]

let's just lynch sash

^^^^^ bad reaction
especially in the event of town!sash

I'm town and I have the same reaction.

I think u actually think he's scum tho

[skitter30]

What do you like about Asuka’s 274?

Its sufficiently nuanced in a way that i thinj is hard (but not impossible) for her to fake

[skitter30]

This feels like a game where i'm getting townread by scum

[skitter30]

skitter - Paranoid in all the right places. Strong townread.

^^^ like this
What exactly does this mean and where am i doing it?
Dont really like ur readlist at all actually

[skitter30]

The only reason I would want to delay a hammer is so high risk can catch up.

^^^ dont end the day before this happens ty

[skitter30]

Anyway, in regards to the bolded quoted text, I don't really know what type of answer you're looking for? Besides what's been mentioned, anyway.

I don't know how someone we know is green can have more importance than anyone, Day 1 especially, since no one has had time to use thier powers yet.

Idk if scum says this really

[skitter30]

Honestly, it's mostly in your read on me. I've been expecting you to suddenly have serious doubts about me ever since you said early on that I seemed like a blindspot kind of player for you.

? Why would u townread this? For all u know i'm scum who said that to give myself room to reverse rhe read if i wanted to

Like its not that this reaction can't come from town!me but (it is) but from ur pov i dont know why u think it's *more likely* to come from town!me

Pedit eh fair. Dont particularly like it still

[skitter30]

More detail if u want later (ie prob after work when i'm at a pc) but it feels kinda pontificating-y and looks like readslist i make when i'm scum and feel like i need to give reada on everyone
There's a lot of words that feel like they're ~there~ to be there so that People See You Have Reads (tm)

Kinda hard to explain (esp without pulling individual quotes up) but i'll try again tonight if i did a bad job explaining this

[skitter30]

What do you like about Asuka’s 274?

Its sufficiently nuanced in a way that i thinj is hard (but not impossible) for her to fake

What do you think about the gross misrepresentation she made about Sash’s interactions and thoughts on Inferno?

I acknowledge that i see this but i need to get back to work so tonight

[skitter30]

More detail if u want later (ie prob after work when i'm at a pc) but it feels kinda pontificating-y and looks like readslist i make when i'm scum and feel like i need to give reada on everyone
There's a lot of words that feel like they're ~there~ to be there so that People See You Have Reads (tm)

Kinda hard to explain (esp without pulling individual quotes up) but i'll try again tonight if i did a bad job explaining this

who is this talking about?

Channel's readslist
Gotta bounce now!

[skitter30]

What do you like about Asuka’s 274?

Its sufficiently nuanced in a way that i thinj is hard (but not impossible) for her to fake

What do you think about the gross misrepresentation she made about Sash’s interactions and thoughts on Inferno?

I acknowledge that i see this but i need to get back to work so tonight

I dont particularly agree with her saying that sash is bussing inferno (ie i dont see it) but i also wouldnt really call it a gross misrep either

I think she made some decent points in that scum!inferno would be behaving differently if he were partners with sash (ie hopping on the rui wagon to give it some momentum, and that scum!inferno would probably be cogent of the fact that he'd look bad on a scum!sash flip given how he's been behaving thus far)

[skitter30]

@channel:

i totally get wanting to be understood and being verbose in an attempt to making yourself understood (i'm usually a wallposter, i guess i'm in a pithy posting phase rn). it wasn't exactly that you were verbose, more that it felt ~insincere~ in some way, kinda like making a post about the reads was more important to you than the reads themselves if that makes sense.

like i said before ur player profile (kinda similar to my own, uses a lot of logic) is in my blindspot because i want to townread people that make sense and you're reminding me a lot of scum!versions of other players that i know have trouble reading for just this reason (specifically scum!seph in this game). obvs you're a different player than him but a lot of how i play is by drawing comparisions to things i've seen before to try to gauge what's happening *here* and that's what i'm being reminded of rn.

i'm aware that this is a ~vibes~ sort of read and that there isn't that much for u to respond to really but i'm trying to listen to my gut more and that post just reminded me a lot of the readslist i make as scum

[skitter30]

Now lets say that UR2 is town either a power role or scum. Bang scum know 3 roles lynched one and can just leave Sash a wifom bait. A player as exprienced as you should at least know that much right?

r u arguing that we shouldn't wagon urap lest town!him is forced to claim and scum will now know three roles?
or did i misunderstand and you're saying something else?

[skitter30]

c) why aren't you more paranoid of my shiny new banner? (wrt 318). i guess what i'm getting at why are you calling sash out for townreading me when you're pretty confidentally calling me town too?

I have a ridiculously inflated sense of my own abilities =) seriously, though, reasons~[/quot]

we can circle back to this at some point

@urap can we talk about the reasons now?

[skitter30]

@urap fair enough wrt ur read on me. still a bit cautious in believing it's a real read tho cuz i think there's scum in the people townreading me this game, as i'm not getting mislynched here cuz of my ~presence~ as u so aptly put it

i think your play this game looks a lot more like schadd's game than nsg's game (or the newbie)

ur scumgame has improved *a lot* since the last time i meta-d u

[skitter30]

Now lets say that UR2 is town either a power role or scum. Bang scum know 3 roles lynched one and can just leave Sash a wifom bait. A player as exprienced as you should at least know that much right?

r u arguing that we shouldn't wagon urap lest town!him is forced to claim and scum will now know three roles?
or did i misunderstand and you're saying something else?

Basically but it's more that skitter already revealed their role(fakeclaim) and by the off chance he is town he is still mislynch bait latter on. If they are scum we should just lynch them anyway. But to be honest it's obvious the slot is scum.

a) he's not obvious scum
b) i think the fact that he's claimed already is a weak argument against wagoning other people (who actually are scummy!)

[skitter30]

ur towngame was like .... hilariously obviously different than ur first scumgame; i don't think i can say that wrt your last scumgame

so i'm making my best guess, which is that this game looks like schadd's game

you don't have the same ~conviction~ that you had in nsg's game. or you do but it doesn't feel as real idk hard to put into words. like you don't believe the things you're saying the same way you do in your towngame. your thought processes were clear and genuine and ~real~ in your towngames; i don't track ur thought process here at all

pedit dont' be silly. i'm not advocating mass-claim, i'm saying that being afraid of someone else claiming if they get run up is a ridiculous reason to object to other wagons forming at this stage

[skitter30]

i mean sure, but nothing like that happened in this game

well maybe your channel read switcheroo but it didn't feel the same really

[skitter30]

i acknowledge that there may be some universe where i'm tunneled here btw

[skitter30]

i'm not townreading him so much as i think that everyone's reasons for scumreading him are bad

also i think his utter confusion as to why luv's reads should have more ~weight~ is kinda townie (or, well, not weight exactly, but should be given more credence since we *know* he's town); i don't think that scum really forget the ~importance~ of an ic or are like obvlivious to that sort of thing or like try to shade him that way

[skitter30]

i mean you have been trying to get a wagon going on him repeatedly so
(i forgot u were on the wagon because i hadn't had much sleep i think; it didn't have much to do with what you actually did or didn't do in the game)

i don't think his garmr read is particularly a reach; i was in the game he was scum with garmr. sash was *a lot* more confident as scum there (i was hard-townreading him for a while iirc), and garmr looks kinda simialr, so i'm not surprised he feels this way

idk if inferno is tunneled really, and idk why it hsould give me pause that only one other person is scumreading you (idk if i'm willing to concede the point that he's over-scumreading you; i kinda disagree that he is)

i'm debating whether or not i think channel's outburst is scummy; i'm still thinking about it
i think it's fakeable in real time for some people

[skitter30]

okay, I

agree that looked kind of townie, but what about their most recent posts

? The two scum reads are obviously fabricated. I don't think it's fair that I've tunneled on them. You even forgot I was on their wagon at one point, lol. I forget what the other one was off the top of my head but I remember thinking it was a reach, too.

we're what, 3 days out? I could compromise onto ruirui

I know you're paranoid of me but I'm sure you can see how tunneled inferno is. The fact that the only other person pushing that read is at best (fypov) over-scum reading me should give you pause.

I disagree with you on channel. I see why you're scum reading there. I was scum reading there (for basically the same reasons, which you didn't like at the time =/ ), but I think that frustrated outburst was super town-indicative. It would have been hard to fake in real time I think.

Also bolded feels like ur conceding the point that he's been townie and then redirecting me towards something else u can try to convince me is scummy

[skitter30]

idk if inferno is tunneled really,

you really are tunneled if you don't see it.

do you remember the part where he made like 5 posts saying that I was scum because I felt the need to produce content in response to you saying you wanted to sort me?

I mean yeah it felt like u were/are teying to get me to townread u, he was right. Like i said there i was a little dubious of that convo because u were talking to me like u know i'm town and like u wanted me to think u were too

It felt kinda buddying-y

[skitter30]

i don't think his garmr read is particularly a reach; i was in the game he was scum with garmr. sash was *a lot* more confident as scum there (i was hard-townreading him for a while iirc), and garmr looks kinda simialr, so i'm not surprised he feels this way

that's right. it wasn't a reach so much as it was easily faked

It could be faked, sure, but i can also see why town!him would feel this.

I guess my overall vibe is that you're attributing things to scum!sash that i'm not sure are inherently scummy, things that i can see coming from town too

Like i'm not sure why u thinj this is inherently faked and not considering that town might feel this way too

[skitter30]

I reread a bit. I really am fine with Sash's lynch.

i'm debating whether or not i think channel's outburst is scummy; i'm still thinking about it
i think it's fakeable in real time for some people

this is weird to me.

Is the outburst in itself possibly scummy to you (but genuine) or can it be scummy *because* it could be faked?
If the latter, why would you fake an outburst?

I maybe described that wrong/badly. I don't know if the outbursr is inherently ai. I can see scum faking it, ir actually feeling that way and being frustrated.

I dont think it's a reason to townread *or* scumread him

[skitter30]

Also bolded feels like ur conceding the point that he's been townie and then redirecting me towards something else u can try to convince me is scummy

yeah that's exactly what I was doing because scum makes townie posts, and i'm not going to argue that they're scummy. that would diminish from stronger arguments, like how sash's recent posts are scummy

i disagree that his recent posts are scummy. i really don't see a reason to vote him tbh, and i thought those posts were kinda townie

[skitter30]

that would diminish from stronger arguments, like how sash's recent posts are scummy

Scummy by Nature is my garage cover-up band.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idx3GSL2KWs

like seriously do you see scum!him saying this as a response?

[skitter30]

i don't think this is a wagon on scum
the gamestate is too ~complacent~

it feels like scum are just content to let the clock wind-down and let people vote for their favorite compromise wagon (ie sash, as multiple people have said) and they don't have a problem with that so they're just letting it happen and taking it easy

i don't think i'll vote there today

[skitter30]

uh ... nobody's talking?
the same like four people keep talking to each other, otherwise it's been a really quiet game. things aren't really happening

you keep trying to push the lynch back to sash (and to get me to vote there!)

and while high risk gamble's lack of catching up is awful, so is suggesting a wagon on him, the slot has been *empty* for like forever and has no content, and i don't want to lynch it before we force content out of it
compromise-lynching an empty slot is just like ...... ok i guess but like we can do better? like why settle for that?

[skitter30]

yes, and i think we live in the latter universe
except that there's scum already on the wagon

if this just like isn't happening then
VOTE: ruiruin

pedit i am

[skitter30]

well now i'm getting spooked that you're suggesting this wagon too so

[skitter30]

no the compromise wagon in that post is referring to high risk gamble, not sash

when i called sash a compromsie wagon earlier i meant that there's a bunch of people scumreading him and voting him, and there's at elast two other people (inferno, channel) willing to vote him

[skitter30]

but actually if sash is scum, skitter might actually be scum here because I don't see it being you and I'd be surprised if my wagon was clean there either

lol

[skitter30]

still don't see see u being town, and i can't fake being stubborn like this, and scum!me is good at making associatives look ~very~ good; we wouldn't be having this conversation if i was scum with him

[skitter30]

why is inferno town?

[skitter30]

it's crazy to me that you don't see how tunneled he has been and i really just don't see it coming from town.

i don't think he's tunneled, i think he has a very sensible read.
if anything *i'm* tunneled.

i kinda wanted to check why you have him as stronger town than me but eh

[skitter30]

Sigh
UNVOTE: URAP2

sigh

[skitter30]

Hopefully not, Sashaddin is probably town IMO

Do you want to start elaborating on like everything?

They just never looked like mafia to me

idk if this really comes from scum tbh
idk where to vote rn really either

[skitter30]

i still want urap
if that isn't going to happen i guess i'll vote rui given the wagons but i don't partiuclarly want to
i don't think i'm voting sash today

there's a few other people i would compromise on to prevent a no lynch

[skitter30]

also scum!sash unvotes his cw because .....

[skitter30]

luv can i interest u in the urap wagon?

[skitter30]

in an ideal universe i'd prefer the slot to catchup but i'm willing to compromise there i guess

[skitter30]

Sigh
UNVOTE: URAP2

sigh

(Hushed voice) But he made two really townie posts lately...

which ones?

[skitter30]

i'm not actually scumreading you inherently for your sash vote
idk if i actually have a good have a good reason (ie one i can articulate rn) for thinking you might be scum; atm it's largely a gut read. like i read your posts and think they feel ????? weird and wrong.
like weirdly timed. making weird observations. idk just feel weird.
your sash vote/post was one such post. it's not inherently scummy but it's another post that feels kinda off, and you've made a whole bunch of them.

like i don't follow your reasons for voting sash. i don't know what prompted you to read sash's iso there. i don't like how you started the post with 'hey anyone else read sash's iso?' ; it feels like you're trying to drum up support for a read that i don't really feel you necessarily ~have~ so much as trying to get momentum for this push

i can give you the weekend, sure, the game is early (by weekend i mean probably until like monday since i'm at least semi-v/la until then)
i'm going to circle back to this then tho

when u do have a chance:
1. why is sash's iso scummy af?
2. why is the ate-y reaction townie?

idk let's go here for now
VOTE: ruirui

pedit @urap

I really liked this post up until the vote.
It just doesn't follow a line of thought of voting scum. I'm not sure if it's scum going for an easier target or not though.
Regardless this should be pressured more in think so I may re address this after catch up.

i wasn't particularly trying to vote scum there, i was trying to find somewhere to vote and most other votes didnt' feel right so i voted there

[skitter30]

Skitter just really pings me with their posting and just feels like a lot of empty posting.

oh? do tell

show me some examples of empty-posting

(inb4 you point to this one. before u tell me this is an empty post, it isn't)

[skitter30]

The current RuiRui wagon looks all town other than Skitter. Skitter is just looking for a lynch rather scum hunting and their voting patterns/reasons show this.

it's not like i've said i have significantly more townreads than scumreads or anything

i've also, you know, repeatedly tried to wagon the one scumread that i have but that hasn't exactly taken off

and yeah the rui vote was a compromise vote (ie and not on someone i'm really scumreading), i 100% agree. it's getting close to eod and i don't really see the point of no-lynching

[skitter30]

Skitter what

i don't understand the question, sorry

[skitter30]

So this is where I'm at after the catch up fully.

URA is obvious town right now and the fact his wagon started is really bad.
I'm feel less like Sash scum with the VT claim and even though VT lynch / scum lynch isn't a bad choice day 1 I don't think Sash flips scum here.

I don't think that URA's wagon was all town either so Skitter, Inferno or RuiRui have 1-2 scum.

The current RuiRui wagon looks all town other than Skitter. Skitter is just looking for a lynch rather scum hunting and their voting patterns/reasons show this.

If it comes to it I'll vote RuiRui over Sash and URA but I think Skitter is just out right scum and it doesn't look like bussing.

VOTE: Skitter

Yeah I can agree with this.

VOTE: Skitter

Don't really have much to add other than I been feeling off about skitter for a while which is why I don't list them as town.

I don't like the fact Skitter ignored my post (663)

So if we really have to compromise on a lynch I think skitter the best one.

a) explain how i feel 'off'

b) you do realize you're complaining that i didn't respond to a post that you explicitly *did* not address to me, right?

@URAP2 and Sash

c) so you're leaving your biggest scumread (which multiple peopel have expressed an interest in voting) in order to be the second vote on a wagon on me .... right before eod? do u really think a wagon on me is more viable than the sash wagon rn???

[skitter30]

what do you mean? there's been plenty of counterwagons propped up throughout the day: ruirui, u r a person 2, then back to ruirui. the gamestate doesn't feel like this at all.

there were a few irl days (like sunday - like tuesday) where very few people were talking. heck, i wasn't even around on friday or saturday and like .... a page and half happened in my absence.

things are moving very glacially, and there isn't really momentum behind like *any* of the wagons besides sash. the gamestate feels incredibly quiescent and like complacent

[skitter30]

Yes scum would most definitely be defending a scum lynch on the first day! Why would they shoot themselves in the foot by not trying?!

i mean scum!me wouldn't but as a generic statement this is true

[skitter30]

i will vote sash before i go to sleep tonight if the wagons look similar to how they are now; i don't think he's going to flip scum but no-lynching day1 is dumb

[skitter30]

which ones?

592, 632 and 635
You tell me if they are town to you...

Dont like the first post, the second two are nai imo

VOTE: sash

^^^^ entirely a compromise eod vote. I dont scumread him and i dont think he's flipping scum

[skitter30]

and everyone off the rui wagon should be asking themselves why they aren't on the rui wagon with such little time left

..... like why tho
I have no idea why u think this or where this is coming from

[skitter30]

yeah my gut said that was a good vote at the time, that's really why i voted there; i had no other reason for it

i feel like a sash compromise wagon is more likely to happen than a rui one given people's stated preferences and i really dont' like the idea of no-lynching and i'm kinda v/la on fridays and i don't know how much i'll be following tomorrow before deadline and i don't want my vote to make it a bajillion times harder to make a lynch happen

also high risk gamble pulled out some of the original rui votes in his catchup and looking at them again ... they're just meh; it's not a very compelling wagon

[skitter30]

lack of being town is a fallacious argument for voting someone
(and it's scummy that you're pushing this and we should really be voting u but whatever at this point in the day)

on balance i feel like sash is a better compromise wagon

(both in terms of likelihood to happen + i'm kinda gut-town on rui whereas sash i just don't think is scum; which is not at all the same thing as thinking he's town. he made a few townie posts, sure, but none of the reasons people are scumreading him are good and holistically he's like .... null)

[skitter30]

Ngl i kinda think both wagons are going to flip town

[skitter30]

VOTE: Sashadin

Hey garmr, i dont like the fact that u ignored my post (734)

[skitter30]

VOTE: RuiRui

Don't just lynch Sash because of the time. There's plenty of time to vote RuiRui up, get a claim and decide from there.
RuiRui has a lot more potential than Sash to flip scum here.

No offense but expecting a claim with less than a day before deadline from the chronic lurker (who, you know, is getting wagoned at least in part for not doing anything) seems kinda optimistic and not entirely realistic

[skitter30]

Town cares. Town tries. That's the baseline deal we all make with each other when we sign up for these games.

If RuiRui feels differently, the very least we ought to do is run her up and make her fight to justify her place.

Wow, 757 stinks really badly.

I mean theoretically town cares and tries but like .... lack of doing this isnt scum indicative, town flake out all the time

[skitter30]

Are you seriously trying this on with me? 'Play to your win con' is a core rule of this game. Getting lynched because you didn't try not to be is breaking that rule.

Obviously I have encountered lots of people who were blasé about the idea of being lynched over the years. You know what they did? They showed up and said "I don't really care if you lynch me, sheep me when I'm dead" or variations thereof. Because that's all they had.

RUIRUI IS TRYING TO BE IGNORED

Uh flaking isnt the same thing as tryinf to be ignored

[skitter30]

Ngl i kinda think both wagons are going to flip town

Ok have to go back to work and didnt really read the last page and a half but i'll try to check wagons after work if o can and will vote qhichever to make a lynch happen

At this stage i would prefer sash simply because he's claimed already and like idk if we can depend on rui to claim in the next ten hours (and i wont be here at deadline either to change my vite id she claims right before) and mislynching flaking!town!pr is worse than no-lynching

[skitter30]

Flaking usually comes with an "sorry I'm really busy right now catching up"

Source: I used to flake a loooooooooot

Not for everyone, sometimes people just site-flake with no warning (tbf i havent checked her sitewide activity)

Source: have played many games

[skitter30]

if you're town, voting ruirui is way more plus town than getting lynched.

All right, but I think she's

L-1

.
Intent to hammer!

From everyone not sash's pov this isnt true given that he's claimed and rui hasnt

[skitter30]

Gotta bounce, sorry

[skitter30]

VOTE: Sashadin

Hey garmr, i dont like the fact that u ignored my post (734)

Garmr if u dont answer this today we *will* be having a convo about it tomorrow

[skitter30]

I will admit that percolating on it all today has made me less certain than I was. However, I do feel pretty good that Sash is town

I dont think either are flipping scum, at this point i kinda think we have to cut out losses and go with the least-bad option

[skitter30]

but guys is it really relevant if ruirui's behaviours come from scum or not the main argument in favor of her lynch is that she hasn't even tried to help town?

I kinda fundementally disagree that this is a good reason to lynch people (esp day!)

[skitter30]

VOTE: Sashadin

Hey garmr, i dont like the fact that u ignored my post (734)

Garmr if u dont answer this today we *will* be having a convo about it tomorrow

Would you believe Gamr is scum?

Yes

[skitter30]

VOTE: Sashadin

Hey garmr, i dont like the fact that u ignored my post (734)

Didn't see it tbh but sure we can have this convo tommorow. We can vote each over it be fun.

Kinda prefer if u answered it today

[skitter30]

sash was *always* a better lynch yesterday than ruirui (for everyone other than sash obvs), just from a purely mechanical perspective given that sash had claimed, rui hadn't, and rui was a lurker who was, at least in part, getting wagoned for lurking and it was not at all guaranteed that they'd come and claim before eod (and, guess what, they didn't)

there's for sure scum on that wagon, and i was going to start the day pushing channel but that apparently isn't a thing anymore so

still think urap is scum

i'm kinda dubious of high risk gamble's vote (esp. since he had criticized the formation of the wagon earlier?)

ausuka is prob town i think?

i'm a lot less confident on town!sash (or, more accurately, i am considering the possibility of scum!sash; the way he danced around the rui hammer was kinda bad and kinda felt like he was asking permission to hammer and i just ... eh don't like the way he acted around it)

also would be p. surprised if all of {rui/sash/urap} are town so

urap why did u pull out that vc?

[skitter30]

also channel is a bizzare af nk tbh

[skitter30]

*only* thing i can think of is that he was kinda going after garmr at eod and scum!garmr wanted to nk him over that but that feels ... reachy and i think garmr is better at this game than that?

kinda surprised they didnt' try to nk you, maybe they thought you'd be protected in some way?

my other guess is they thought he was a pr but i didn't pick up any pr tells from him so idk

[skitter30]

also channel is a bizzare af nk tbh

I thought Garmr would be nightkilled.

??? that would also be a bizarre af nk

[skitter30]

so do u still think there's scum on ur wagon?

[skitter30]

VOTE: sash

[skitter30]

what i'm trying to get at is why u no longer think there's scum on that wagon

[skitter30]

i'm a lot less confident on town!sash (or, more accurately, i am considering the possibility of scum!sash;

the way he danced around the rui hammer was kinda bad and kinda felt like he was asking permission to hammer and i just ... eh don't like the way he acted around it

)

urap what do u think about this?

[skitter30]

also i want to try to sort egix and exilon today because i don't really have reads on either (and i also keep confusing them, which might be part of the reason why i don't have reads on them idk)

[skitter30]

Hey sash, what fo u think of the fact that i'm voting u?

[skitter30]

There's going to be scum in the players trying to push a narrative on the NK.

I think it's sash

[skitter30]

i'm kinda dubious of high risk gamble's vote (esp. since he had criticized the formation of the wagon earlier?)

I made it clear before my vote that I would vote RuiRui over Sash instead of just wasting my vote of no one followed.
This is just typical shade for someone who just skimmed events of yesterday.

My scum read still hasn't changed on Skitter and I'm going to address your questions from yesterday later.
The fact I posted though between you questioning them and now without calling me out for not answering tells me that they are empty questions.

A) i would characterize calling how i interacted with the thread yesterday to be skimming as shade

B) what do u mean by 'wasting my vote if no one followed'?

C) no, i kinda just took note that u didnt answer it but given how u interacted with the thread yesterday i dont particularly expect u to. Like i'd be pleasantly surprised if u did, not surprised if u don't, and if u didnt at some point i's point out that you'd been ignoring me. Just cuz i didnt explicitly point out that you didnt answer doesnt mean i didnt notice that u didnt

Also my questions aren't empty. They lead somewhere useful for *me*, even if you don't see how/why and even if i dont explicitly say how/why in thread

[skitter30]

Oh also skitter if you wanna sort me and Egix and by that I mean stop confusing us, please by all means interact with me so that we can get to know each other well enough that I don't lumped with someone else. kthx

Sorry, not trying to,for some reason i keep getting ur usernames confused.

Can i interest u in joining the sash wagon?

Do u have any spicy reads?

[skitter30]

Hey sash, what fo u think of the fact that i'm voting u?

sash are you ignoring me on purpose or .... ?

[skitter30]

That sounds like scum being all giddy about a mislynch to me tbh.

Sure, I could see that.

I quoted those posts because Skitter had asked me if I thought it was suspicious that Sash seemed to be dancing around the hammer. I found that not very compelling because Sash had basically given RuiRui a 30 minute window to come to the thread and claim, and for all I know would have hammered at that time had I not asked for them to delay.

But, yes, the twice used "this is fun" line did ping me a tiny bit, as well.

not so much dancing around hammer so much as asking permission to hammer? like he felt self-conscious about hammering in the face of people opposing it, he was kinda waiting for people to give him permission so to speak.

like this exchange:

Spoiler:

I know I'm green. From my pov, voting Ruirui makes some sense strategically then. However, I don't see much scum in her 11 posts. What's the best option for me here?

if you're town, voting ruirui is way more plus town than getting lynched.

if you're town, voting ruirui is way more plus town than getting lynched.

All right, but I think she's

L-1

.
Intent to hammer!

Brb in 30 minutes, this is fun!

@Sash you can give it a hot minute before hammering in case they are around to claim.

10 hours til deadline, so maybe as late as you are comfortably sure you can come back to hammer.

I'm comfortable lynching this sans claim over sash, if it comes down to it, though

@Sash you can give it a hot minute before hammering in case they are around to claim.

10 hours til deadline, so maybe as late as you are comfortably sure you can come back to hammer.

I'm comfortable lynching this sans claim over sash, if it comes down to it, though

I'll be back for a hammer later, I won't let the day pass without a lynch, his or mine. Well, his preferably since I'm having a lot of fun here lately.

she's at l-1. he asks what to do. you tell him to vote. he gives intent
like it feels like he's too self-conscious to do it by himself

i was thinking the two of you were partners but the mroe i think about it i think this exchange is probably not partner indicative? unless there isn't daytalk?

[skitter30]

i mean i was kinda expecting some kinda of response to the fact that i voted you, or to the fact that i don't like your hammer, or that i don't like your hypothesis about the nk

but you didn't say anything to any of that so i asked and you didn't respond to that to, so it did kinda seem like your'e ignoring me

anyways yes that about sums to my point, what do you think of the fact that i'm pushing you for these things?

[skitter30]

I know I'm green. From my pov, voting Ruirui makes some sense strategically then. However, I don't see much scum in her 11 posts.

What's the best option for me here?

i'm concluding it from here in particular, supported by the convo u had with urap after

[skitter30]

actually i'm back at town!garmr and that inferno v garmr is tvt

[skitter30]

that's ok, i'll try to ask again

what do you think of me wrt to my alignment given how hard i'm pushing you?
do you think i really believe the read? am i scum trying to get in a mislynch?

should i be scumreading you here?

[skitter30]

@ high risk gamble

Spoiler:

Up to page 9, what made RuiRui stand out as a vote that felt right?
I'm not expecting you to have straight up solid reads by this point but you're saying that voting majority players felt wrong but RuiRui was acceptable?

yep, pretty much
before you ask, i absolutely do not know how to articulate that any better

==

39 Is basically a mixture of following popular opinion without actually making a stance, empty shading followed by an over explanation towards Ausuka with a comment resulting of "You may or may not be scum." You are trying to over justify your read (or what should be the read) to look like you're active hunting. The issue I have with this is you leave little no space for read progression with your reason and it's basically a halted read.
Your maybe town read of Inferno has no justification to this point other than you're trying to divert from the negative opinion Inferno has on you there. Once again, it's an empty read and the way you added it into a wall post means it's empty and just there to make you look like you're trying more.

a) i know ur an alt but have u ever played with me before?
b) that post was not empty by any means
c) i mean i guess you can characterize the ausuka read that way, but that's not really what it felt like to me. basically what i was saying is that her entrance felt like a scummy post, but i don't think it made her scum. it was something worth notinb but not something worth condemning her over. i also do think i progressed on the read, even a few pages later (on like p7 or so? maybe earlier? actually it was literally on the next page in a post you say i'm giving another baseless read of 'you may or may not be scum' ) i say that i think her reaction to this was townie
d) i was already writing a wall, making a separate post for the inferno read would have felt silly and like a waste of a post when i could just include it in a post that i was already writing. also it didn't really have justification, it was gut.

69 First question to URA I'm in favour of, but again concerning Ausuka you give another baseless read of "You may or may not be scum." with no option for progression. It's noise to be noise. You're just trying to tred lightly at this stage to give further options.

if u notice i actually say that i think ausuka's reaction to this was townie ~in this very post~. so like saying my stance has 'no options for progression' and is 'noise to be noise' is kinda ridiculous given that the ver interaction you're critiquing helped me form a read on her

92 Is actually a good post, but again the read on Inferno seems forced here and is an entirely empty read from a town perspective.
What experience have you got with Inferno as like I said already, it just seems that when Inferno has a negative opinion on you, you try and divert it.

a) read on inferno was entirely gut (do u think town players don't have baseless gut reads or ...?)
b) exactly no experience with inferno, it's an assessment based on his personality and how he's thinking abou tthe game
c) wasn't diverting his opinion on me at all

110 Another empty post. Starts with worthless self meta, a town read list with no reasoning to why other than safe town reads, and worthless "new scum/town do this" opinion that again, has no progression options.

a) these posts aren't empty. idk if this is a playstyle clash but i wouldn't classify *any* of these posts as being empty; just because you disagree with the worth/value/rightness of my opinions doesn't mean they don't exist
b) fair enough wrt self-meta, feel free to ignore it
c) readslist have to have reasons to be valid or 'non-empty' ...?
d) i honestly don't remember if the reads were safe at that point or not but if they were you can have this point, sure
e) i disagree that 'new scum/town do this' thing is useless; i've correctly read people off of this sort of thing before

By this point, given that I'm expecting you to claim that your wall posts are the more useful posts, do you notice what's lacking like I do?
That's right, scum reads or actual pushes. Majority of your questions are generic, sit back and see how wagons fold questions.
At this stage of the game we have the following reads from you "townreads: bob, inferno, maybe garmr, maybe cdb" "Ausuka may or may not be scum."
If you or anyone feel that this kind of ISO or reads come from anything other than empty posting, then explain why I'm wrong.
Your ISO rarely gets better either, which I can go through more of your "informational" posts if needed.

a) didn't have many scumreads at that point, which i do believe i've said more than once
and before you tell me: 'town needs to look for scum! not having scumreads is scum-indicative or at best not town-motivated', my response is that sometimes i just have games where i don't have scumreads. this is one of those games.

b) the questions aren't empty. i use them to sort people and to try to understand what people are thinking and to get in their head and to try to understand how they're approaching the game in order to try to determine if they're actually thinking real thoughts (ie approachign the game with a coherent adn townie thought process) or are just making shit up as they go along

c) i also like to believe that people can understand my reads without me having to explicitly say 'hi i think garmr is scum' or whatever based on how i'm interacting with them in thread

But the "repeatedly" tried to wagon the scum read of yours is actually really bad here considering you voted URA twice outside of RVS with 194 where you waited a whole 7 posts to vote back to RuiRui and 398 where you vote URA and even apologies during the time with your only push to vote URA is with, once again, empty shading and just being a voice to show you have "a read". Just posting "vote this player", or "that's a scum post" is not you genuinely believing URA as scum. Scum do this as a tactic all game, sit and call X scum to show that their voice was loud on a player that's not overly likely to be lynched early.

i think this is a playstyle clash
i would call how i voted urap and repeatedly called him scum and repeatedly asked other people to join me and/or to share their reads on him to be repeatedly trying to wagon him. the key bit being the last part - trying to get other people to join me. i only have the one vote, and i can't make a lynch happen by myself, i need to work with other people. to me, trying ot get other people to join the wagon (by trying to understand other people's reads on him and trying to get them to join me on him) is trying to get him lynched.
and if i'm scum why am i making a show about trying to lynch urap but not actually doing so instead of taking the multiple other lynch optinos available to me (sash, rui)?
and i can be nice to someone i think is scum and apologize for voting them, esp. if i'm friendly with them and i don't want to be wrong. why does scum!me even say that there?

C) At what stage did I give the impression that I would ignore questions to me for you to expect me not to respond? Just because I was posting and logging on with a slower rate doesn't mean I was ignoring things in the game, so your wording here pings me really hard. This basically reads as, you forgot you asked questions because you didn't actually want answers so instead you wanted to use them for late game to shade me.

just that. you post and logged in at a slower rate, and when you do post you don't post ~comprehensively~. based on how u were posting before i wasn't really expecting u to answer everything addressed to you, and at some point i would have circled back to trying to sort u again

Tell me, why do you think Sash is scum here?
You seem to have wanted to test the view on Sash before putting a vote down.

a) bad interaction with the rui wagon. don't like how he was asking other people to hammer
b) his speculations about the nk feels kinda he's sharing his reasons for murderizing channel in the night
c) still doesn't really have reads
d) a lot of his posts in general are pinging me
e) he always mechanically should have been the lynch yesterday and the fact that it swung towards rui for really meh reasons is supicious
f) also just like saying things that are like the exact opposite of what i'm thinking ot the point that i'm having trouble understanding them as a real thought process. like saying garmr should have been nk'd .... just doesn't make sense in the gamestate either

i voted after his nk speculation

859 is dreadful if town. You spent majority of yetserday calling Sash town why they were the leading wagon. Then when RuiRui looked like the promising wagon you move over to Sash and say that you think that they are both town. This is standard scum play to be off the lynch and explains the change of heart. It also doesn't match up to how you ended the day and started the day with the reads. Not to mention your vote on Sash was an obvious in favour of no lynch over lynching.
Always the better wagon was wrong, when Sash looks town. The flipped reads are just forced.

at the time i thought sash was town so didn't want to vote there.
rui was an acceptable cw (i've always agreed that i wasn't scumreading her, i was voting her because i didn't know where else to vote and i wanted to pressure her a bit )
after sash claimed and there was like a day to deadline i switched to sash - i felt like expecting rui to show up before deadline was otimistic and without a claim it was always better to vote sash there mechancially, and no it wasn't trying to make a no-lynch happen - at least seven different people were either on the sash wagon or stated they'd be willing to hammer and i repeatedly pointed out that this was a better options given the fact that rui hadn't claimed.

and now i think sash is scum

I'm going to post on Bob shortly, and I feel that Skitter/Ausuka were scum theatre.

oooh this is spicy, do tell

[skitter30]

that's ok, i'll try to ask again

what do you think of me wrt to my alignment given how hard i'm pushing you?
do you think i really believe the read? am i scum trying to get in a mislynch?

should i be scumreading you here?

Aaaaaahh! Thanks for being precise, I really thought I had answered well in 1000...

1. I think you are probably town. You picked on something and won't let go. I can call this a strong town. If not, you are good...
2. You give solid reasons, this does not look faked, maybe a little reaching with the hammer dance but overall you got the situation well. I don't think you are scum here.
3. Probably... I appear scummy naturally to many people and made questionable moves, so suspicion is natural. Plus I was having a bad Day 1 so it pretty easy to mislynch me today. But you could townread me for a better result! I'm sure I got town stuff in my iso.

ok. from ur pov your town. how do u think scum are interacting with ur wagon rn? are they voting you? staying off? both?

[skitter30]

And i think this little proding has drawn out sash sucm partner.

It ceratinly explains why chb was killed rather than some off teh wagon

Looks like high risk gambler is sash partner

elaborate?

[skitter30]

i think bob is town

[skitter30]

UNVOTE: till we get a vc

[skitter30]

the sash 'asking people whether i should vote or not' thing happened before that

[skitter30]

wasn't particularly directed at you, was kinda talking to myself and i'm still mulling it over

i think on balance that exchange probably was not-partner indicative

there's daytalk,i checked the op after i posted that

[skitter30]

sometimes i just have games where i don't have *many* scumreads. this is one of those games :p

[skitter30]

it's ok, i meant it tongue-in-cheek
it might be working, i might be changing my mind on my read on you
i'm still thinking about it and mulling it over

[skitter30]

VOTE: Sash
How do you feel now?

I think that if you are voting me on the basis of that single post, you are indeed scum occupying the 4th slot... Now I know you were scumreading me before this, but it looks opportunistic as f. I think you are just trying to make me talk so you can pin me with whatever you want to see.

When you want to kill your dog, you say it has rabies

. That a French saying...
You sure act like town a lot, but some of your actions and words give me a bad feeling about you. About your play, I mean.

if he's scum why does he make a vote that he knows u will call scummy?

[skitter30]

let's just lynch sash

^^^^^ bad reaction
especially in the event of town!sash

I'm town and I have the same reaction.

Debatable

Glad it is, that means I can play the game longer because being the first night kill always sucks.

also channel is a bizzare af nk tbh

I thought Garmr would be nightkilled.

Me too tbh. But if you thought i'd be the night kill why are you voting me fraudulent slip?

@Skitter: It seems both Garmr and I thought he wouldn't survive the first night. How is my assumption that bad if the supposed target thought my way too?

it was a bad assumption from both of u

[skitter30]

I'm afraid to make mistakes as town (only rolled scum twice and I found it way easier) so I guess I'm naturally wishy-washy.

ftr i actually think ur play here looks *drastically* different than the scumgame i played with

if this is ur townplay u look a lot scummier as town than as scum

[skitter30]

Skitter: Has CDB as possible TR then has no hesitation about her read. So far, Skitter has the best to get from that NK. Problem is that I am TR Skitter...

i actually dropped the townread at eod

[skitter30]

i would not have nk'd cdb last night
i think he was semi-lynchable

[skitter30]

This is very valid. I just don't know how likely it is! But I personally would give someone town cred if a scumread of them, especially someone if they were pushing (which isn't the case, but anyway) was NK'd.

why would u give someone towncred here

[skitter30]

Bob is town.

Yeah Bob is town here.

i think bob is town

Whatever you three are seeing, I'm not seeing it...

feels like a real thought process

[skitter30]

hey ausuka what's ur read on exilon?

(other people are welcome to answer this too)

[skitter30]

i can track his thought process from post to post and his posts holistically make sense as a whole
like i feel like i can understand how he's approaching the game

[skitter30]

sorry maybe i explained wrong

egix is asking me (and inferno and garmr) what i see in bob
i'm saying that bob's posts feel like real thougth processes (that i imagine would be kinda hard for newbscum to fake)

i'm not commenting on egix's thought processes, i don't think he's said much unfakeable really

[skitter30]

What do u think of exilon?

[skitter30]

y town?
i have him somewhere around nullscum rn

[skitter30]

~null i think
i was guttonreading him earlier i think but i have no memory of why at this point

[skitter30]

huh

i don't really get that vibe off of him much at all really.

his posts feel very ~thorough~ and analytical-y, like from a very *logical* pov. almost to the extent of iioa

[skitter30]

:/

well i've kinda come around and i'm not convinced ur scum anymore. i kidna think ur town now. i also changed my mind on sash

i don't know where scum is rn
i don't like exilon's posts. like i can tell he put a lot of ~effort~ into them but i can't tell if what he's writing is what he actually ~believes~

[skitter30]

Doesn’t feel like scum are being wagoned right now.

Kinda agree

[skitter30]

for my own reference, this post is referring to bob, correct?

Yep

[skitter30]

Usually, I'm not expecting scum to decide to nightkill someone that they've been pushing for during the day. a) They prove their read wrong; b) they force themselves to find other targets to push and fake more reasoning and scumreads. So yeah, I'd give someone twoncred for that if it happened.

Ok fair enough. I was kinda thinking that if someone's scumread got nk'd that meand their reads are bad kinda holistically so i wouldnt really give them towncred for having wrong reads.

I don't know if i would give people towncred for this really.

Exilon how were u reading channel at eod?

[skitter30]

VOTE: Skitter

This is where we really should be lynching today.
And I don't want to vote outside of Skitter, Bob, and Ausuka either.

I kinda feel like this stems from a playstyle clash more than anything else, but go for it

[skitter30]

It's as if you're saying posting a lot of supportive evidence is easily faked.
And yet I never fail to post an analysis and conclusions I reach from the information I gather, and at the very least I also follow up on it.

As opposed to, you know, fencesitting all day.

I think this is a personality/playstyle thing. For some people, posting an analytical post like that as scum would be close to impossible, and they may prefer to interact in real time.

For other people (cough me cough) it's about a bajillion times easier to interact with the thread as scum with those sorts if posts.

I dont know u. I dont know ur playstyle. I'm saying that i do think scum can write those kinds of posts and that those posts are fakeable for some people, and that they read similarly to posts i make sometimes as scum.

They're high-effort and a lot of words and some scum use this sort of thing to interface with the thread

[skitter30]

EBWOP: And putting your money where your mouth is
damn

Not fence-sitting. Changing my mind. On balance i don't think this looks like sash's scumgame, even if he is being kinda scummy in a vaccum. + the vast support is making me a bit wary/spooked too.

So now i need to start broadening my search for scum and i'm doing that by focusing on people i haven't really sorted yet

[skitter30]

@exilon i see ur post but it's the kind of post i need a pc to answer, so later today, sorry.

Inferno, i hope ur dog is ok

[skitter30]

Ok; I get it; I do have one question though.
And this feels a bit like day1 deja vu but:
you once again react to a post of mine by latching more to its form rather than its content, but then you don't do much with the content itself, which I feel isn't aligned with your claimed willingness to sort people and broaden your search.
And by that I mean, what do you think of the points I raised about Egix?

sometimes to me the form/tone/timing/writing style of the post is just as important (if not more important!) than the actual content of the post. for that post the tone stood out to me

wrt to the content -

i don't know. it just kinda ~is~
i don't find much of what you said to be compelling or convincing, and like i said, a lot of it feels iioa to me. like you're summarizing his posts and trajectory more than anything else? idk.

and I get what CDB is going for here and reading him as bullheaded town but I'm not so sure right now especially considering where Egix decided to go instead (inactives).

Nvm the fact he manages to keep his SR on CDB and keep his vote on him

while at the same time quoting him for truth (in 165, as mentioned previously) which I find quite ironic.

i feel like u kinda assume that if egix didn't explicitly state a change of read on cdb (or doesn't unovte him) he's still reading him the same way and you use this to highlight the oddity of egix qft'ing cdb while at the same time scumreading him.
i'm not sure egix was still scumreading him in 165; it doesn't quite feel like a post someone usually says to a scumread

so like i don't particularly agree with this observation, because it's based on an assumption that i don't think is necessarily true

Like I'm not saying scum can't have genuine scumreads but if you're not sure of who's scummy (as Egix had stated previously), you're probably not going to give as much credit to your top suspicion's scumreads.

same with this ^^^^ i don't know if cdb is still egix's top suspicion's scumread at that point, he isn't really acting like he is really

By this point Sash's wagon starts picking up and Egix points out in176 that he doesn't see sash as scum.

iioa

205 and 206 are extreme fencesitting (still no unvote from CDB), and currently read to me as someone who is trying to set up a move to an eventual Rui wagon;

fence-sitting, sure, but i can see town making those posts too

233 is just amazing where egix follows CDB's suggestion and moves his vote over to Rui. See how his reasoning didn't actually evolve from 205 and 206?

again, this s=isn't like impossible for town to do; town do this all the time
like yes, you can look at this from a scummy angle, but it's not an inherently scummy action

347 sees Egix completely drop his SR on CDB without even a single mention to that change, or where it came from. In here, the main SRs are Rui and CBY, and suddenly Urap2 shows up as "third, I guess..."

But then Egix also drops this read on Urap2 in 503

iioa + town does this

In the eve of these great wagons, Egix changes a read on Inferno in 603; in 702 however he leaves quite explicit that RuiRui is the "closest thing to a scumread", which seems contrarian to his opinion on Inferno which at the very least had more substance to it than the reasoning he had for ruirui.

Jump forward another 200 or so posts and in 909 you get what could be an attempt to further analyse Inferno? 910 also does the same, but it's funny because it seems to me that Egix misreads Ausuka here, as Ausuka points out soon after. Egix doesn't bother following up on this.

There is some back and forth here between Egix and Inferno which isn't really accusatory in any way and is very dialogical between one or the other (see 959, and omce again I'm left to wonder if the scumread on Inferno was also dropped without real mention.

more iioa. and why does 959 imply that the scumread on inferno was dropped

In summary, Egix's reads have been made for show,

are non-commital, weak, and inconsistent between themselves.

His voting (and lack thereof) supports a scum agenda.

i still don't know if this is inherently scum-indicative really
i'm also not sure i agree with u that egix' reads ahve been made for show

so like overall i'm ehhhh about the content of this post; i don't find it very compelling. i feel like u summarize egix' iso and describe how his reads change as being scummy when i don't think it inherently is

so like idk. the content just kinda is. i can tell u put a lot of time/effort into it but like i don't agree with most of it or find it novel or an interesting approach to the game.

i do think the way you approached it looks liek the way i post as scum sometimes tho, which is why i hgihlighted that to begin with

[skitter30]

So, if I'm reading you correctly, the result of your analysis is that you think Ausuka is scum?

I'm not trying to be dismissive, it's just a little tough for me to locate your conclusions

same, can you maybe summarize it again @bob

[skitter30]

On balance i don't think this looks like sash's scumgame, even if he is being kinda scummy in a vaccum.

Stealing this gem for my signature!

(i think u need to wait till the game is over)

[skitter30]

kinda want to go here

VOTE: exilon

[skitter30]

ok, why?

[skitter30]

His attitude changed a lot towards me in Day 1.

He wanted my lynch, for info he said, but was still defending me against the pushes of others (Garmr and Bob). He ended up on Ruirui's wagon but still wanted to lynch me. His actions seem more town to me. I don't see scum playing like this, it doesn't pass my smell test.

Against others, his posts were rational and inquisitive. Another town trait to me.

I could write a few sentences more but I gotta run, I hope this is enough for you to see my point.

this doesn't seem townie to me?

[skitter30]

UNVOTE: Skitter

why don't u think i'm scum anymore?
what do u think of exilon?

[skitter30]

and drawing conclusions, obviously.

a) i'm not gaslighting you, that's kind of a weird thing ot accuse me tbh? like why do you think i'm lying to you about your motives/analysis instead of just ... sharing what i think about it?

b) no offense but i don't think any of the conclusions you draw are really like ... noteworthy, or indicative of original town thought. they're all a lot more summarize-y than anything else

YOUR OWN assumption is also not necessarily true, especially because two posts later in 167 his words are still aligned with a CDB scumread. And still voting for him.

my assumption might not be true, sure. yours might not be either, that's thing.
you'll also notice that i didn't say that egix said he wasn't scumreading channel anymore, but that i said i *coudln't tell* if egix was still scumreading channel. my point is that i couldn't tell what egix's read was and that i thus couldn't tell if whether or not your assumption was valid

Even without regarding the above, the worst part to me is how you ignore Egix's own words about the subject:

...
you do realize that 1130 is after 1128, right?
i hadn't read that far yet

What do town do often? Sheep a wagon from their previously top scumread?
At that point IIRC Egix had been voting CDB, and his suspicion had been fading, but then he sheeps that vote? Like there aren't only 3 people in this game. Either CDB went from top scumread to top townread or something along those lines, and everyone inbetween was null and not worth trusting,

or Egix's own suspicion wasn't even that strong to begin with.

Which is fine and possibly town, but it's still a terrible look for him.

i think it was the bolded. and sure, it's a terrible look. i don't think it's inherently scummy tho; i think town do this sort of thing too (esp. in rvs when reads aren't necessarily established yet)

Bolded is analysis and interpretation, very obviously, so I don't even know what you're looking at here that makes you say that. You keep invoking this IIOA thing without regard to the purpose of the information which is really dismissive and akin to a fallacy fallacy.

it feels like a summary more than anything else to me

And now you're strawmanning. My main conclusion is that the way he's been playing supports a scum agenda, which justifies a vote. It's literally there, written just outside of your bolding.

I do hope your vote isn't the byproduct of your projecting.

i disagree that anything you've written proves that egix's reads are just for show
you've shown that he's doing things that scum can do, sure. most of the things you've highlightd i also think are *entirely* possible to come from town, and i don't see any particularly reason to believe why it's more likely these things came from scum!egix than town!egix.
i don't think you've demonstrated scum motivation here (ie specifically in the sense of showing why you think this is *more* likely to come from scum than town).

what exactly do u mean by 'supporting a scum agenda'?

[skitter30]

i can track his thought process from post to post and his posts holistically make sense as a whole
like i feel like i can understand how he's approaching the game

I feel like I can understand it too but I don't understand how that makes him town? Like, I think scum could easily decide to approach the game from an angle of "let's lynch sasha, and while we're at it i can tie people (hrg) to him to make it look less like i'm tunneling and more like i'm gamesolving."

that's a fair pov
i don't really know how to elaborate on what i'm feeling tho, i'm sorry
if i figure out how to articulate it i will do so

[skitter30]

hey skitter,

Do you remember how I played D2 as scum last game when I was flailing trying to find direction?

See anything similar here?

Does it matter that scum wouldn't be solo at this point in the game like I was?

? not sure what you're referring to here
(i mean, i do remember u day2 last game i think but i'm not sure who you're talking about really)

[skitter30]

back to were i was

So atleast one of the three sash, Ausuka and urp2 have to be scum. All three coudl be or just one. From the simple logic

If the first 5 to vote sash were town and sash was town. Then why didnt 2 scum finish him off?

So either atleast one of the 5 was scum or sash was. Would they have joined a counter wagon or finished him off.


So that leaves me with ( urp2 and ausuka) vs sash (not excluding the possibility that sash is scum with scum bussing on him)

So now that we have the condition. I will no think on who of the 3 i think is most likely scum

this might be a weird thing to say but this logic is so ???? that i think it's hard to fake?

[skitter30]

oh got it
i do think that the logic has made a lot less sense in the past couple of pages and i'm like rereading posts and going ????? what do you possibly mean by this

i'm not sure if he's flailing tho; i think he kinda (maybe?) believes what he's saying even if idk what he's trying to say?

i think scum are more likely to flail when they're under pressure and i don't think he was under that much before starting his analyisis thing
not sure if being solo would matter as much. i guess i think solo scum feel like they have more of a responsibility to direct/impact the game than not!solo !scum since they're the only ones who can purposefully push a scum agenda

now that i thinka bout it if bob is town scum would prob perceive him as lynchbait and i haven't really seen a concentrated push on him, which is a bit suspicious actually

also if he's scum i think scum would try to distance from him (unless he's like the strongest pr) which i also dont' particularly see happening

[skitter30]

ah ok; didn't realize that that was specifically what u were referring to; i def picked up on you doing that last time (also pointing this out here is probably kinda townie)

i can kinda see it idk

if there happens to be a vig i do think this sort of slot would be a good vig shot btw

pedit: i want to wagon exilon rn
still working on sorting hrg; i'm kinda profoundly null on them; i do kinda feel like bob is a mislynch tbh; don't really have thoughts on egix, which is problematic

what do u think fo ausuka?

[skitter30]

i've skimmed hrg's and cby's isos, and i kinda think the slot is town tbh

not really feeling a vote there rn