Ansy to see if you can pull this off? =PIn post 1249, Ankamius wrote:eventful game
At first I thought this was a likely town role because of the strangeness of the double investigative, but it always had to be scum.In post 1150, Ankamius wrote:That essentially is it
I can see if someone can kill
I can see if someone can stop night actions and strongwilled neighborize them
first was on Gemini
Second was on Jungle
Both were negative results and Jungle joined my neighborhood
This turnaround doesn't make sense from town. Ank was pretty solidly reading JM as town. Additionally, if ank was town, she would have been motivated to use her neighborize on the person she was most confident was town because hitting scum confirms her as a pr. So JM starts to lurk, just like he did at the end of day 1, and that reverses her top town read? Ank never cared who the lynch was all through d2In post 1203, Ankamius wrote:Jungle is like 80% the last scum here due to the disinterest
Draco is about 15%
Vedith 5%
This is all nonsense wifom. Ank is basically trying to meta-read the mod here talking about how all town roles would likely have the same format. I know it's wrong, but it's also not in good faith. It's worse than trying to analyze flavor. If alignment could so easily be determined by roles, we'd see people calling for D1 mass claims in closed games.In post 1238, Ankamius wrote:Btw I am just going to note
Every single town PR has had complexity and multiple parts to it.
You can see my claim is genuine because of Jungle not saying any of my claim was wrong (meaning I DID neighborize them and their turnaround on Gemini at the start of day two is strong evidence of knowing about the innocent result). I never once was called out by them for fakeclaiming, instead I was outright called and treated as conftown by them until the very end.
Note that this exact trend is NOT KNOWN during day one because our only points of inference from there is rosters double role and merrys single role. It's reasonable to expect that roster has a role that is not indicative of what town has in the setup because the night action is very weak and the vengeful is just as likely to be antitown than protown.
Now.
Draco claimed a watcher. We can believe this is the entirety of his role because he was pushing so hard for fullclaims towards the middle and end of yesterday. Now look at Merry And Pippins role. These are very interestingly similar are they not?
note how ank is calling a venge shot anti-town =/ That takes serious suspension of disbelief. It's not like a normal vig, either. The person shooting gets to have just watched their mislynch get pushed through and is more likely to be in a position to clearly see who was acting in bad faithIn post 1239, Ankamius wrote:Vengeful + Redirected Detector
Jailkeeper + One-Shot Doctor
Kill Ability Detector + Action Failing Ability Detector Strongwilled Neighborizer
Named Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
vs
Bus Driver
Watcher
sounds really elegant doesn't it
The cop role can only get a positive on town for the second role, which helps potentially disrupt the two from working together despite the neighborize ability (ESPECIALLY if the neighborize was his driven away) which helps keep the two roles in check
having two strong PRs is kept in check by the vengeful potentially removing a mislynch, the bus driver causing people's actions to be moved around (with the vengeful there to make this public info), and the watcher to catch one of the uses of the role.
all this is evidence of is Ank successfully pocketing JM. He also called Ank locktown, but he had no good reason to do so. His bad play yesterday is not a reason to make a bad play today.In post 1240, Ankamius wrote:You cannot use this argument anymore, Jungle proves via their actions towards the start of the day that I claimed my Gemini result near immediately to them. Draco and Jungle together PROVED my neighborhood ability is genuine.
I originally was going to lie about my role and Jungle claimed my result for me while locktowning me. That is strong evidence of us talking together in the neighborhood and me claiming there is more to my role than the neighborhood.
This is enough proof that I have an investigative role, so scum have an investigative regardless of who is scum here. This type of reasoning no longer works.
You saw me play on that account in CatloavesIn post 1251, Draco Lucky wrote:My understanding of Ank's town play, as described by Ank is that she tries to manipulate the game state in such a manner that her town reads find their way to the scum reads that ank thinks are correct
This was not the style we got this game. D1, she posted one read list and a couple of questions and then made this "oopsy" post at the start of day 2 which pings me in retrospect.
Spoiler:
it was becauseIn post 1252, Draco Lucky wrote:Her instinct during D2 is again very passive. Ank fence sits on her reads, and makes no moves to push the game in the direction they prefer.
Spoiler:
umIn post 1253, Draco Lucky wrote:This absolutely contradicts ank's later claim. I wish I had seen it sooner.
Spoiler:
UNVOTE: DracoIn post 1250, Draco Lucky wrote:Vedith, I'm a bit worried that you've already made up your mind and this is for nothing, so I hope that's not true.
incorrect.In post 1254, Draco Lucky wrote:At first I thought this was a likely town role because of the strangeness of the double investigative, but it always had to be scum.In post 1150, Ankamius wrote:That essentially is it
I can see if someone can kill
I can see if someone can stop night actions and strongwilled neighborize them
first was on Gemini
Second was on Jungle
Both were negative results and Jungle joined my neighborhood
Think about the possible setups
Jailkeeper
Watcher
traffic guru with venge kill
neighborizer + kill check (supposedly)
Bus driver
Scum has two prs and one of them bus, driver, is strong, but countered by confirmed!town traffic guru and jailkeeper. The neighborizor ction is confirmable and nothing about the role makes it red checkable by any of the other roles, so there is a good balance. One role can be countered pretty heavily but is strong. The other can't be countered, but is weaker. The utility is entirely based in the ability of the scum to use the neighborize to their benefit.
Consider if ank is town
Jailkeeper + traffic guru with venge + neighborizer that can check for the ability to roleblock + a check on the ability to kill vs watcher and bus driver
How does this make sense? The bus driver would not only be countered by the traffic guru and jailkeeper but also by both investigative actions from ank's slot, and the scum!watcher would be checkable by ank's slot, and the jail keeper's slot. The watcher ability, if it got a result, would have a 1/3 chance of pushing scum to lynch the venge slot (bad for scum), while a false positive from town!ank would also result in the free venge for town. It's simply too much town power + the ability for prs to confirm one another
This game is clearly more balanced with town watcher rather than town whatever ank is claiming.
I switched to scumreading Jungle on a dime because the sudden burst of effort looked town enough and it made me realize that jungle had said very little despite a reasonably strong start to day 2 (and even later said that they weren't following along with the game when I posted in there that I was suspecting gemini of being a traitor)In post 1255, Draco Lucky wrote:This turnaround doesn't make sense from town. Ank was pretty solidly reading JM as town. Additionally, if ank was town, she would have been motivated to use her neighborize on the person she was most confident was town because hitting scum confirms her as a pr. So JM starts to lurk, just like he did at the end of day 1, and that reverses her top town read? Ank never cared who the lynch was all through d2In post 1203, Ankamius wrote:Jungle is like 80% the last scum here due to the disinterest
Draco is about 15%
Vedith 5%
schadd's oddball setups, in my experience, are very deliberately made.In post 1256, Draco Lucky wrote:This is all nonsense wifom. Ank is basically trying to meta-read the mod here talking about how all town roles would likely have the same format. I know it's wrong, but it's also not in good faith. It's worse than trying to analyze flavor. If alignment could so easily be determined by roles, we'd see people calling for D1 mass claims in closed games.In post 1238, Ankamius wrote:Btw I am just going to note
Every single town PR has had complexity and multiple parts to it.
You can see my claim is genuine because of Jungle not saying any of my claim was wrong (meaning I DID neighborize them and their turnaround on Gemini at the start of day two is strong evidence of knowing about the innocent result). I never once was called out by them for fakeclaiming, instead I was outright called and treated as conftown by them until the very end.
Note that this exact trend is NOT KNOWN during day one because our only points of inference from there is rosters double role and merrys single role. It's reasonable to expect that roster has a role that is not indicative of what town has in the setup because the night action is very weak and the vengeful is just as likely to be antitown than protown.
Now.
Draco claimed a watcher. We can believe this is the entirety of his role because he was pushing so hard for fullclaims towards the middle and end of yesterday. Now look at Merry And Pippins role. These are very interestingly similar are they not?
@ank what are you basing this meta read on?
this really should just say it all right hereIn post 1257, Draco Lucky wrote:In post 1239, Ankamius wrote:Vengeful + Redirected Detector
Jailkeeper + One-Shot Doctor
Kill Ability Detector + Action Failing Ability Detector Strongwilled Neighborizer
Named Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
vs
Bus Driver
Watcher
sounds really elegant doesn't it
The cop role can only get a positive on town for the second role, which helps potentially disrupt the two from working together despite the neighborize ability (ESPECIALLY if the neighborize was his driven away) which helps keep the two roles in check
having two strong PRs is kept in check by the vengeful potentially removing a mislynch, the bus driver causing people's actions to be moved around (with the vengeful there to make this public info), and the watcher to catch one of the uses of the role.note how ank is calling a venge shot anti-town =/That takes serious suspension of disbelief. It's not like a normal vig, either. The person shooting gets to have just watched their mislynch get pushed through and is more likely to be in a position to clearly see who was acting in bad faith
you can say I pocketed jungle all you like, the sudden switch on Gemini is still evidence that IIn post 1258, Draco Lucky wrote:all this is evidence of is Ank successfully pocketing JM. He also called Ank locktown, but he had no good reason to do so. His bad play yesterday is not a reason to make a bad play today.In post 1240, Ankamius wrote:You cannot use this argument anymore, Jungle proves via their actions towards the start of the day that I claimed my Gemini result near immediately to them. Draco and Jungle together PROVED my neighborhood ability is genuine.
I originally was going to lie about my role and Jungle claimed my result for me while locktowning me. That is strong evidence of us talking together in the neighborhood and me claiming there is more to my role than the neighborhood.
This is enough proof that I have an investigative role, so scum have an investigative regardless of who is scum here. This type of reasoning no longer works.
