Mini Normal 2071 (Game Over!)

[ChannelDelibird]

Feeling pretty iffy about RuiRui so far. Most of her posts so far are pretty surface-level stuff ("Inferno, you're moving too fast with your reads" without really talking about what that might mean, or "well now nobody can use that for info" after the comment about reactions to LUV) without truly engaging in anyone's alignment. Need to see more evidence of desire to actively uncover the scum rather than just reacting blandly to a random post here or there.

[skitter30]

hey cdb, do you like town or scum more? which alignment do you think you're better at?

[ChannelDelibird]

Town and town, respectively. I find it much harder to keep up the energy required to look convincingly town when I'm scum, though occasionally I can make it work.

[skitter30]

you fall into that group of people that i want to townread for arguing well and for making sense, which is a bit of a blindspot for me
not entirely sure how i'll sort you

[Exilon]

i'm getting some buddying-y vibes from you

@exilon

I don't know what kind of comment you want on this

also i dont' think that scum!inferno really thinks to randomly make that post about uzi there really

My point was precisely that it wasn't rational (let me post this here), it was emotional ("I want to post about something else that lets me feel closer to town")

Anyway, does it invalidate the remaining case?

[Exilon]

UNVOTE:

ok I thought about it and I think I understand what skitter is saying now.

@Exilon: I still don't understand what about my push you don't think comes from town here.

Well, like I said:

Feels like poor reasoning and a bit forced in order to justify a vote on skitter.
The question here seems unnecessary and loaded (assumes Skitter finds Ausuka scummy, which is incorrect), especially considering that skitter's own bolded words invalidate that same question.

So I thought it was written with intent to vote rather than genuine analysis and didn't give him much of a benefit of the doubt.

From your answers and my own analysis, feels to me like you went in with an assumption that wasn't exactly correct (but legitimizes your push imo), and it seems like you've come to an understanding. As such, I'm not scum reading it anymore.

[skitter30]

i'm getting some buddying-y vibes from you

@exilon

I don't know what kind of comment you want on this

also i dont' think that scum!inferno really thinks to randomly make that post about uzi there really

My point was precisely that it wasn't rational (let me post this here), it was emotional ("I want to post about something else that lets me feel closer to town")

Anyway, does it invalidate the remaining case?

a) idk would you agree with me that my assessment of how you're interacting with me is accurate? do you think i'm mischaracterizing what you're doing?

b) i don't think it was a rational post, no. my point is that i think it's a post that is more like to occur to town!inferno, i'm not sure that scum!inferno would even be thinking about the game in those terms (and would be kinda surprised that if he was he'd even post it tbh)

c) i don't particularly like your case. it's a very ~logic~ oriented case, which is fine and all. the thing is that i'm not sure that *inferno* is such a logic-oriented player, so i'm not sure he's approaching the game from the same logical pov that you're analyzing his posts with. i kinda feel like you think you caught him in a logical gotcha! when i'm not sure that's how he thinks about the game at all. i'm also not sure if the contradiction you highlighted is even, like, scummy. i also think that it relies on some assumptions that aren't, like, necessarily true (namely that all of your scumreads don't have to form a teamread, esp. not at this stage of day1!)

i'm basically rn trying to decide if this is scum!you fabricating a case or if this is how town!you approaches the game. at the moment i'm leaning towards the former but i'm not sure yet

[Exilon]

a) I don't agree nor disagree? I mean you're sharing how you feel, so it's true to you. How am I to say what you feel is wrong? Maybe I'm missing something

b) oh I get it when you say scum!inferno you mean his metagame specifically.

c) I don't understand part of this. The contradiction not being a scum tell I get, but could you elaborate further on incorrect assumptions?

Logic oriented is my approach to mafia in general. I don't think I have enough forum mafia games to have a specific scum or town style.

[skitter30]

a) eh fair enough. i do feel a bit buddied (namely in how you were defending me earlier) tho

b) yeah town!inferno is notation for 'inferno when he's playing as town'; scum!inferno is notation for 'inferno when he's playing as scum', and so on (pr!inferno is 'inferno playing as pr' etc)

c) you said this:

He seems to misunderstand the question and answers in Post 83with "because she's scumreads independent of Ur2 and Exi",

which only makes sense if you're assuming there's more than one anti-town team,

which .... okay, but it seems like a slip up, because, wouldn't wording it as "Exi and urap2 are scum together" be faster, more organic, and natural?

which i understood to mean that you're objecting to the fact that inferno was not scumreading me as being part of a team with his other scumreads urap and exi. i.e. that you think having scumreads but not reading all of them together as a team is problematic - that independant scumreads aren't a thing

i'm saying that i fundementally disagree with that (especially at this stage of the game) - i think it's entirely possible to scumread multiple people without viewing them holistically as a team

(fwiw mini normals are not allowed to have multiball these days btw)

what i mean by incorrect assumption is that you used that to build your case, and i'm saying that i disagree with this pov to begin with

[Inferno390]

also i dont' think that scum!inferno really thinks to randomly make that post about uzi there really

My point was precisely that it wasn't rational (let me post this here), it was emotional ("I want to post about something else that lets me feel closer to town")

I don’t like this. I feel like it’s circular logic. And what about my post was not rational, exactly?

[Inferno390]

I will agree that I am not a completely logical player. While I do try to use it as my most powerful tool in my arsenal, I am an emotional person and that carries over into my playstyle.

[cbynumber]

Also if I get the feelign mafia in there arguments would prefer to hide there arguments in group. By making it appear that thre arguments are in harmony with anotehr player that they virtue of being mafia know is town . Ive seen a few examples of that but nothing realy note worthy, just somethign givign me sligth feeling

@skitter The first post I think is independently scummy. The second feels like redirect of of Egix. And the interaction between them goes no where. whole thing just feels wrong.

i don't think i'm seeing what you're seeing here; this read feels a little reach-y imo

also urap and bob probably (?) aren't partners together imo

Could you elaborate on this?

it was self-aware, i knew quite well that if i didn't put in the parenthesis people would ask why i wasn't voting there (hint: i wasn't actually scumreading her, it was a natural progression from the previous post - i showed an rvs post that i liked (garmr's) and then showed one that i didn't (ausuka's) )

VOTE: ruirui

This is the kind of rvs post i can see scum making ^^^^

(i'm not explicitly calling her scum for this rn, but noting that it comes from scum more than town imo)

Personally I wouldn't of put this point down. You could of left it to see if someone did have that reaction and have them sort out their alignment.

The fact you put that there feels like your cutting off a potential conversation line and seems a bit like a preemptive defence. I'm still deciding if that's scummy or null so

critic here, if that was your goal I would of phrased it differently Like in my post above it seems like preemptive defence and cuts a conversation line. If you are town you pretty much soured the bait if people thought that was the bit that was scummy. Unless your going for some sort of slayers gambit.

This doesn't make sense, if you scumread CDB, what exactly are you critiquing if you caught him off of this?

[cbynumber]

Exilon is still scum, btw. Why would he make an in depth post in 113 about how CDB's wagon is 'weird' only to go and case someone else immediately?

[Exilon]

Exilon is still scum, btw. Why would he make an in depth post in 113 about how CDB's wagon is 'weird' only to go and case someone else immediately?

Because it was something I noticed and felt it was important to address. I also wanted to address Inferno390.
Where's the problem here exactly

[skitter30]

72 comes from town I think.

Like it actually looks scummy af but I think it actually reads townie from some new players.

i don't think this is the kind of post scum makes about their partner who's playing a surface-level scummy game thus far who'm nobody really shared reads on at that point - it's a dangerous position to take without knowing how the rest of the thread will perceive him.

if people decided to scumread bob (he's been getting some townreads instead) this would have been a ~risky~ position for urap to take on his partner

[skitter30]

VOTE: exilon

i think i want to go here

[Exilon]

a) eh fair enough. i do feel a bit buddied (namely in how you were defending me earlier) tho

b) yeah town!inferno is notation for 'inferno when he's playing as town'; scum!inferno is notation for 'inferno when he's playing as scum', and so on (pr!inferno is 'inferno playing as pr' etc)

c) you said this:

He seems to misunderstand the question and answers in Post 83with "because she's scumreads independent of Ur2 and Exi",

which only makes sense if you're assuming there's more than one anti-town team,

which .... okay, but it seems like a slip up, because, wouldn't wording it as "Exi and urap2 are scum together" be faster, more organic, and natural?

which i understood to mean that you're objecting to the fact that inferno was not scumreading me as being part of a team with his other scumreads urap and exi. i.e. that you think having scumreads but not reading all of them together as a team is problematic - that independant scumreads aren't a thing

i'm saying that i fundementally disagree with that (especially at this stage of the game) - i think it's entirely possible to scumread multiple people without viewing them holistically as a team

(fwiw mini normals are not allowed to have multiball these days btw)

what i mean by incorrect assumption is that you used that to build your case, and i'm saying that i disagree with this pov to begin with

As in: if there's only one team of scum, and if you think three people are scum, you're not going to say "the scum team is these 2 people", right? That's how I read it.

I understand later this point is expanded into "these 2 people are scum by association" (=they're a team); but the justification of this (it's chainsaw) also applies to skitter, whom he said he was reading scum for something else. (which leads to the contradiction). Later he removes scumread on skitter. But the accusation of chainsaw defense remains.

So he says urap2 is scummy because his attack is chainsaw-y, which would make me and skitter is scumbuddies. Since we know he thinks skitter is townie and I'm scum, this can't be the only reason why he feels scummy about me. But he hasn't elaborated on what it could be.

also i dont' think that scum!inferno really thinks to randomly make that post about uzi there really

My point was precisely that it wasn't rational (let me post this here), it was emotional ("I want to post about something else that lets me feel closer to town")

I don’t like this. I feel like it’s circular logic. And what about my post was not rational, exactly?

I don't think there's anything circular about it. I'll try to express the idea differently:

The timing of the post felt relevant when put together with the previous posts where you seem to backpedal on something that was putting an hypothetical scum in a tight spot.
As part of a feeling of being encroached and under pressure, the post emerges as an attempt by scum to find mental common ground with town.

[Inferno390]

See your not addressing why I think your logic is circular.
The reason I think your logic is circular is because you’re using the fact that you think I’m scum to say that my post was aimed to look Town.
X is scum
Therefore this thing X did is scum motivated or is done because of scum reasons
So X is scum. Die, scum!

Or something like that.
And what would make you think I felt encroached and under pressure. There wasn’t a wagon on me, the two people scumreading me I’m already interacting with, and no one is pushing me except my scumreads. What pressure?
And what exactly am I backpedaling from?

[Exilon]

See your not addressing why I think your logic is circular.
The reason I think your logic is circular is because you’re using the fact that you think I’m scum to say that my post was aimed to look Town.
X is scum
Therefore this thing X did is scum motivated or is done because of scum reasons
So X is scum. Die, scum!

Or something like that.
And what would make you think I felt encroached and under pressure. There wasn’t a wagon on me, the two people scumreading me I’m already interacting with, and no one is pushing me except my scumreads. What pressure?
And what exactly am I backpedaling from?

I think I get it. But it's still not circular; it's not feeding itself. It's complementing the conclusion (which is scumread), in consequence to the posts before.
I understand it isn't, in itself, worthy of a scumread.

To me, it's when you put everything I've pointed together that a scummy mindset emerges, not with each individual piece.

I said I thought you felt encroached and under pressure at that moment for recognizing the skitter read being wrong (which is what I mean by backpedaling), in conjunction with urap2's callouts, as well as my own posts on the matter. This would be enough for me and the general tone in your posts seemed to convey a level of antsiness. From what you're saying, it seems you weren't in fact feeling this type of pressure. Is this right?

[Garmr]

s like your cutting off a potential conversation line and seems a bit like a preemptive defence. I'm still deciding if that's scummy or null so

critic here, if that was your goal I would of phrased it differently Like in my post above it seems like preemptive defence and cuts a conversation line. If you are town you pretty much soured the bait if people thought that was the bit that was scummy. Unless your going for some sort of slayers gambit.

[/quote]
This doesn't make sense, if you scumread CDB, what exactly are you critiquing if you caught him off of this?[/quote]
Because it could catch town as well if she is town because of how defensive it is. The reasoning cbd was caught out isn't the same reason why I was complaining about it. Makes sense if you sit and think about it for 2 minutes.

[Sashaddin]

Can you explain this further please? Like, what about Inferno's analysis is great? I'm not seeing your pov here.

The game started hard and fast. My vote on Skitter was pure RVS but I sensed town in her, so I wanted to unvote and settle elsewhere.
Of all the posts I found that far, this was the post that was telling me the most. I was feeling what was being said real good: the yikes 40 , the convenient 76, the free shade on 42... since we are early I decided not to be inactive and sheep a bit. I know taking someone else's reasoning is not the best move, but it's a start. People tell me I'm inactive Day 1 so I try to get away from that image now.

[Sashaddin]

- I'm not touching the Inferno-Exilon feud with a ten-foot pole for now.
- Garmr and I were scum partners once, he hasn't done much but I'm getting the same vibe. I'm watching this slot.
- ChannelDelibird is surprisingly coming very townie to me. I saw a couple of people voting him while skimming the thread, but after reading his ISO I couldn't tell why. Townlean for me.
- Skitter seems town.
- Bob seems nervous scum, like post 97 below
The others don't have enough posts or impact on the game yet.

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