UK Eastermeet Invitational (Game over)

[Fenchurch]

Oh god oh god. Oh god. This game.

I’m a townie. CES what’s your plan?

[Fenchurch]

Why did we choose to play this game??

2 scum down, 10 to go. But I guess I can't tell you who.

[Fenchurch]

Klick: It doesn’t seem like the correct play here to give my reads, as then scum know 1) whether it’s safe to lynch me, or 2) who to leave alive if scum get lynched.

Normally agreed best play in JoB is to lunch the second-most scummy person, but that seems way harder to identify within 12 players.

Oh I guess I can vote already though? Let’s do it.

VOTE: CDB

[Fenchurch]

Spoiler: neither scum nor the second scummiest person is going to get lynched.

Why not? What’s your plan?

Myko: gut. But not specifically 2nd scummiest.

Klick: what made you ask that question of Primate?

I have 4 scummy reads now. Why am I the only one voting?

[Fenchurch]

The other townie (hopefully you, Klick) should talk to me. We're about halfway through the grace period.

Why?

[Fenchurch]

Patrick

: Wenna hasn’t even posted yet. If she hasn’t picked up her PM, might be worth prodding her on Facebook?

[Fenchurch]

I'm weirded out by her trying to vote.

So, I had forgotten it, but if the scum plan is to quicklynch a townie as soon as they get a chance and hope that townie shoot wrong, then it definitely is bad for me to give full info about my reads. But voting is a way that I can still project some of what I'm thinking and add pressure to someone.

This game is horrible. I don't know how I'm meant to demonstrate my towniness to the other townie without being able to give thoughts and reads.

I have 6 people as possible town currently, and luckily I don't think any of them have me as scum either, so that's something, I guess.

[Fenchurch]

If everyone would like to answer one question for me it's this: how does this game currently make you feel.

Just so I'm 100% clear - does the townie seriously have to shoot 9 out of 10 scum in order to win the game? Has this ever been successfully done before?

[Fenchurch]

11 out of 12, even...

[Fenchurch]

It would be super bad if the other townie is Wenna.

Xtoxm, Kyrion, Poro, Nexus, Cpol. Of the people who have posted, you all have the least content which makes me feel able to reading you. In itself that could say a lot, but. If you're town, please make sure you do something about it in the next day before the deadline.

[Fenchurch]

or the other towie is lynched and I have to hope that they see through the nonsence.

So... you currently think that another townie would be able to correctly identify you as town?

[Fenchurch]

1. Anyone who has a vote on another player in the first 24hrs after the 72 window lifts is scum to me regardless of reason.

Why this? Even if scum go for a quicklynch in town, what is the harm in town trying to get scum lynched with their vote?

[Fenchurch]

UNVOTE:

I can now think of a reason not to be voting, but Primate I’d still like to hear what yours is.

~~~~~~

Two-ish answers to my question so far, one good one bad. Everyone: how would you describe your current feelings towards this game?

[Fenchurch]

I have scum reads on everyone who has scum reads... Like.. Wha? Other than a couple of people who made fairly obvious scummy posts, it seems pretty odd to get reads off a few lines...

a) everyone has a baseline 90% chance of being scum.
b) if someone is doing something that seems awkward, weird, illogical etc, and seems like they might be scum. Then they very probably are. Doesn’t mean I won’t change it if new information trumps the old read. But I have to start somewhere.

[Fenchurch]

Poro: why do you have me as not town?

Wenna: I’m town. But I think it’s unlikely that you are. If you are this game is actually kinda hilarious for the last 2 days.

[Fenchurch]

Okay... well I thought I’ve already explained reasons for everything you’ve quoted Poro.

It’s anti-town if I give my reads list, because if scum are looking to kill a townie, then it tells them which of the townies is better to kill. I’ve given my number of reads instead because:
a) at least then I’m sharing

something

. It gives an indication to the other townie of what I am thinking and how I am processing the game, which might match their experiences. It might also make scum feel uncertain about lynching me. Especially as you could perhaps infer some of my reads based on who has posted and what they have posted.
b) If we get to Day 2, and I’m not a confirmed townie, then I will be able to go back through the game and explain in full what I was thinking at each stage and what the reads were, and it will make sense, and hopefully I can then demonstrate that I’m the other townie.

I voted for CDB at that point because: I felt a single vote doesn’t give away so much of my reads to be a big risk, whilst still conveying a bit about how I was feeling, and maybe push CDB to react. I also hoped it would prompt other people to vote, in general I think people voting each other would give more information away, as scum are forced to interact with and react to each other even more.

CDB was my first scumread, his entrance to the game just seemed awkward and weird. I actually don’t feel as strongly about it now, he’s more in the middle of my pack - this is part of why I retracted my vote.

I also felt, initially, that that there was no real harm in town having a vote on scum, and thus perhaps having some control of the lynch. The main thing that led me to unvote was, I realised that in the event that my scumread was wrong and I had landed a vote on the other town, that would be so incredibly damaging for the game and basically guarantee a town loss.

You’re last two quotes are repeating the same stuff I’ve already addressed. I have changed my mind on some people as the Day has gone on, and that’s something I’ll talk about in Day 2 if it’s needed.

[Fenchurch]

First person to read this gets to have a guess why this rule was made.

I assumed it was in response to Kyrion's question in 41. Why do you ask? There's been no quicklynch yet so maybe scum had some kind of plan to wait it out?

[Fenchurch]

I had somewhat been looking forward to a weekend full of mafia.

Did you mean this game, or playing mafia on skype or something?

[Fenchurch]

I'm on your townlist then, Fenchurch?

Why would you ask this? Are you expecting me to answer?

I'll give you my thoughts on you, but not whether I'd shoot you or not.

To start with a plus: you're one of the few people still talking even now when things seems to have really slowed. Scum play generally takes more effort, and is probably hard to sustain in a game like this, so posting is a town-tell imo.

On the other hand, although you've been posting a lot, I didn't feel you had given any real reads or anything akin to a read... your posts contained a lot of chit chat but I didn't get a sense of you giving any thoughts on the game or even hinting at reads. Looking back, I guess there is a bit more there than I remembered, and some that I agree with (e.g. Davsto lock-scum within the first 2 pages).

You also seem very cheery, whereas I'm somewhat dreading the prospect of having to shoot correctly. Although also just accepting it; it's a silly game I guess. I have a shortlist, and I'll also have more information from the lynch itself, but there are a handful of players who I just don't feel that confident in being able to read correctly.

[Fenchurch]

no one's said either "CESscum is trying to portray Klickscum as town" or "CESscum is trying to trick Klicktown"

So which of these is it?

What made you so focussed on Klick the whole game?

[Fenchurch]

Kyrion and Wenna barely being here makes this all pretty difficult. . .<snip>. . . Gonna reread tomorrow

Well... that sounds rather like scum trying to arrange a quicklynch.

[Fenchurch]

WOAH, okay. I only have 5 minutes before work, so I can't post everything I'd like to. Myko - I'm the other townie.

I'm just gonna dump my notes, although they're not super current...

Spoiler: reads list

Scum:
Lianne - weird and awkward
Davsto - weird and awkward and then really fake calling me scum
CDB - no effort, nothing town
Myko - weird and awkward
Nexus - no effort, nothing town
Xtoxm - all just nonsense drunk posts
Primate - defence about the galaxy brain thing seemed weird
CES - low effort posts, bit manipulative

Null:
Kyrion - one post… no effort
Cpol
Poro
Wenna

Town:
Klick?

I kinda stopped updating these after page 4 or so - in the early game there is more to keep track of. I had Klick as most likely town based on how CES seemed to be fixated on convincing him, and based on his reaction to CES' question, although the fact he hasn't posted in 2 days now wasn't so good. Then I had Primate as my next pick because his feelings about the game most closely matched mine ('dread' at having to shoot correctly). Poro and Cpol went down to scum now for not being active at all. Jack has been active but I still thought was scum based on her consistently calling me scummy for no reason.

People I felt most uncertain about being able to read correctly were: CDB (I generally always find him scummy even when he's town), CES, Myko. My shortlist as of last night of who I would save was Klick, Primate and Myko, of course factoring in extra information from the lynch. I guess based on my post Myko just now Tom felt it safest to trigger the lynch there.

Myko - where are you at? Do you have any questions about my play?

[Fenchurch]

Dammit I don't have my phone at the moment and I couldn't log on from work so haven't been able to post all day!

Myko

it's not Primate or CES or Poro,

it's me

. Primate has given very little info and it makes no sense for him to not realise there's no harm in giving his reads now. CES' play is harder to pin down which is why I had him in my 'unconfident about reading' pile but it is still his typical scum-play; low key and logical, but also low energy. Poro is just... continuing to act like he's not sure who the other townie is, wtf? Even if it's not 100% confirmed as you, there's no reason to operate otherwise right now.

I feel like two things are likely:
a) scum were hesitating about pulling the trigger on the lynch because so many of them are inactive.
b) Tom got worried when we made a connection yesterday and decided that it was necessary to try and cut it short

[Fenchurch]

I would also point out that as per Fenchurch's reads, her claimed most likely scenario was essentially Klicktown being manipulated by the scum and she took no steps to remedy that - a hypothetical Fenchurch-Klick town would have surely lost with a Klicklynch

Maybe, but I've been struggling this whole game with how to demonstrate my towniness without being able to give reads.

Also I'd like to point out that a bunch people have been throwing suspicion at me, but nobody has given reasons why, which is exactly what happens when the majority of players are scum and I end up getting mislynched (or mis-shot in this case).

[Fenchurch]

I would also point out that as per Fenchurch's reads, her claimed most likely scenario was essentially Klicktown being manipulated by the scum and she took no steps to remedy that - a hypothetical Fenchurch-Klick town would have surely lost with a Klicklynch

And I was taking steps, those steps were just to generally be as active and open as I could be. My approach was to be town, not just towards one person.

[Fenchurch]

I think the Klick thing was always about CES. If CES is town, he'd never give away the game as easy as that and mark who has to be lynched (and then has to cope with the eternal doubt that CES is playing him). I think he'd always have the hope to get lynched somehow, so "getting it all wrong" helps in that sense. And it's a forceful move, together with his "plan", getting people to move around him so he could observe.
Should CES be scum, it's a fake trail. Klick hasn't done anything on his own merit, so it's not even a gamble whether CES is double bluffing.

Myko - I can't really follow your reasoning here - what are you saying that you CES' supposed plan was? Who has to cope with the doubt?

So who are we blaming for our loss if I happen to shoot badly?

Don't shoot badly

[Fenchurch]

I don't think that's been happening. Just had a look through searching for "Fen" and the only person throwing shade at you I found have been me, just now, and Poro, both of us explaining why.

I've done the same search and I get Jack, CDB, Poro's 108, etc etc, and only one reason there which is in Jack's post, which I addressed myself.

Poro's reason just now is that my posting my reads list ruins my defence. That's just nonsense; there was a clear, pro-town reason I was cagey earlier, but now once a lynch has been determined and it's not me, then it really matters very little.

Your reason is because I didn't direct myself at Klick enough, I've given my reason for that too.

[Fenchurch]

etc etc

Full disclosure... I stopped searching here, these etceteras are for rhetorical purposes.

[Fenchurch]

Okay so, my thoughts I've had throughout the game, spoilered for space.

Spoiler:

2 scum down, 10 to go. But I guess I can't tell you who.

At this point it was CDB (gut read, based mainly on the flying saucer image) and Davsto (mainly 25, combined with his other two nonsense posts).

I've been through my reasons for placing a vote... at the time, because of the grace period, I figured it was safe and made sense as a way of conveying some info on my feelings about the game, without giving a full reads list which is what I would normally do.

Klick: what made you ask that question of Primate?

I have 4 scummy reads now. Why am I the only one voting?

So, I did try and engage Klick here, because of the way CES was treating him already made me think perhaps he was the other town. My four reads here were really more like 2 full reads and a bunch of half reads...
Davsto as even more sure scum for his reaction my vote
CDB based on the same gut-read
Myko for a bunch of short joke posts and questions that sounded kinda fake/anti-town
Nexus for just doing mostly nothing
CES for his smug 'I have a plan' and the way he was treating Klick
Kyrion for having just one post and it being a joke
Lianne for hanging back a bit

A bit later I asked CES why he was focussing purely on Klick. I asked this because I was trying to get a handle on what that interaction was, whether Klick was town and CES was hoping to fake a connection, whether it was just a scum-bluff, or even a mistake.

I also thought

It would be super bad if the other townie is Wenna.

Xtoxm, Kyrion, Poro, Nexus, Cpol. Of the people who have posted, you all have the least content which makes me feel able to reading you. In itself that could say a lot, but. If you're town, please make sure you do something about it in the next day before the deadline.

I actually also thought the possibility of Wenna being town was kinda funny, with me there in a pool of scum, just looking for the one town who didn't exist. But I also hoped that she understood the game enough to recognise the importance of participating if she was town, and that her lack of posts was just an indication that she was scum.

I called out this group because I felt like all their posts so far had been silly joke posts, which in the context of this game probably means scum, but coming from these players, there was a chance one of them would be playing that way as town (e.g. as in that wereleg game where Chris did a bunch of crazy stuff and used his commute). And it did help clarify things, e.g. Nexus continued to post nothing but 'you're scum' - and CDB's reaction made me feel a bit more confident in him being scum too. Kyrion's question about how people could have scumreads seemed pretty fake. Cpol was less helpful but his insistence on being unhelpful was made clear.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also in looking back I've remembered this interaction, which at the time struck me as scum-scum:

A small part of it also was that I thought Primate's "galaxy brain" thing seemed unlikely to be intended to appeal to me which suggested that the other townie would be more appreciative of memes, but that's not really an angle I'd like to rely on.

all my posts are designed solely to appeal to me.

CES accusation is such a strange and stretchy one to make - it's clearly just the kind of thing that Primate says - and so both the accusation and defence just seem very fake and awkward.

[Fenchurch]

I'm not even sure where to begin on Poro. I think I've responded to Poro's case against me in 138, but hopefully now it is even more clear why there was value in me posting information about my reads even without a full list; it's because I can demonstrate afterwards that those posts were genuine. It's true that I made a mistake about the standard JoB play being to lynch the second-most townie player. And I'm not sure even now what he means by 'if you have to ask' about why it's bad for a townie to vote. It seems completely contradictory to his position now that the wagon might be on scum....

183 is just bizarre. I've posted my historic reads to evidence that I have been having them throughout the game, even though I haven't been posting them. However, giving *current* reads is just meaningless, as well as suggesting that he'll re-read Myko's post. Either Myko is town, in which case the very most important thing is that he shoots correctly. Or Myko is scum, in which case we will get to Day 2 anyhow (and for this reason, I'm almost certain Myko is town, as there seems no benefit to scum lynching one of their own... they simply lose an opportunity to win by mis-shooting).

[Fenchurch]

gg, well done primate!
i thought for sure town had this when myko started calling CES town for his entrance plan.

Thank you so much for actually starting the speedvote btw, stepping up and actually making the call. I was apoplectic during sunday that no-one was starting a wagon. I was considering outing myself in order to get people to do things, but like my position at that point was pretty good so I was hating it.

Same.

I had huge regrets for having cast doubt on the speedlynch in the mafia thread. It's a bit tricky living with CES and not playing from work, meant I only had 5 minutes of alone time in which to read my PM and spew some thoughts into the thread, and I had spent all my pre-game thought time trying to get into a townie mindset and not really paying any heed to the correct scumplay.

During the game I realised that the speediest speedlynch was absolutely the best play, but by that point it was too late to express it. And then I was also afraid of having the wagon be comprised of only the active players, and Myko only having to choose between CES coherently non-voting and a bunch of players who weren't around - which caused my own hesitation in joining, although I think it would have been better to havae CDB, Jack or Klick off the wagon than me.

gg, well done primate!
i thought for sure town had this when myko started calling CES town for his entrance plan.

And this. Well done to CES for standing out as town amongst all the nonsense, and to Myko for identifying that and correctly shooting 11 players in the game. By rights I feel like a game like this should never get to Day 2, but the both of you played scarily well so that it did.