One Night Ultimate Werewolf [Over]

For completed/abandoned Mish Mash Games.
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Post Post #20  (isolation #0)  » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:19 am

You sure you are allowed to do this? You should ask the site mods if you have not already

If they say yes, then I'm /in

May want to message the people that joined in February to make sure all is still up for the game
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Post Post #26  (isolation #1)  » Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:27 pm

So how shall we go about mass claim?

Claim in order of which your role acts at night or some other order?
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Post Post #34  (isolation #2)  » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:33 pm

StarwingBeauvoi wrote:I do not know what I a doing here, why I am doing here, or even who I am doing here. How do we play?
In post 26, PokerFace wrote:So how shall we go about mass claim?

Claim in order of which your role acts at night or some other order?

First question is comprehensible. The second I do not follow.

Some character actions resolve before other people's actions at night. Everything does not happen at the same time

Based on the outlined roles I believe our action resolution order at night is Seer, then Robber, then Troublemaker. Hunter, villager and werewolves won't claim actions

I was suggesting we go seer, then robber, then trouble BUT if seer checked the center then it better to go robber, trouble, seer. Robber stealing from scum is bad to deal with. Having them claim first to avoid that is often good. Trouble should not go before Robber since Trouble acts after robber during the night and is the main counter to a robber that becomes scum. Trouble can turn them back to town or be used to combo us toward scum.

With all this in mind I think if you are a villager you should claim first. Lock you in to doing nothing so you can't say you are something more useful later like a lying wolf. Then we have robber. Then we have seer or trouble pending if seer saw center or someone else's. Maybe we have seer always go after trouble? Not sure

I don't think hunters should claim at moment, wolves knowing who is hunter is bad. So if you are one of those, I guess you should claim villager. A villager changing their claim to hunter isn't a problem since we will just lynch the hunter anyway. And if they real hunter hopefully they can take the wolf with them to their grave
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Post Post #35  (isolation #3)  » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:35 pm

By the way just cause i suggested it, does not mean you should out yourself as villager now before everyone can way in on if my plan is the right idea or not.

If my plan is not the right idea then you claiming before we discuss the plan could be bad
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Post Post #38  (isolation #4)  » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:37 pm

It matters for basically the same reason it matters in most games. If town Y can counter or ruin a scumy claim from wolf x, then y should claim after x

Otherwise if x gets to hear y's claim first, then x can adjust their claim so y does not catch x

Trouble can out a fake robber and or a robber that steals from scum, so trouble should claim after robber
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Post Post #40  (isolation #5)  » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:21 am

If scum wants to fake claims robber, there's a risk they have to take. Trouble acts after robber. Scum can say they were robber and stole from a player. BUT as trouble acts after that, trouble could have made them a completely different player later on. The guy that thinks he is scum, may actually now be town.

If a real robber steals from scum, thus becomes scum, there's a risk they have to take. Trouble acts after robber. Robber may have become scum, BUT is he still scum? Trouble could have switched the scum back to town.

Trouble maker doesn't give direct info, it gives indirect info. It says where a role has gone, not what a role is. Let's say Adam is a villager. Bob is a robber. Carl is a wolf. Doug is a trouble maker. Eric is the hunter. The robber steals from the wolf during the night. So Bob is now scum. He plays the game to his new win condition. Adam has already claimed villager. So Bob claims robber but lies and says he stole from Adam. Doug claims and says he switched Bob with Eric. Bob now realizes he is no longer scum, he is Eric's role. And Eric became scum. Bob comes forward with this new info. Town lynches Eric for the win.

As things stand someone that started the game as scum or as robber, doesn't truly know what their alignment is right now. They could be anything if the trouble maker switched them. If you don't know what role you are, will you take a big risk or a little risk with your claim? What benefits any player the most is the tell the truth so people can figure out who is what correctly and lynch the right person.

With this in mind do we want to claim role names first in any order? Then claim targets in order of robber, trouble, seer? Or would claim targets in order of robber, seer, trouble be better?
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Post Post #43  (isolation #6)  » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:51 am

Thought about things some more. If everyone says only what they are before seer comes forward, its a good thing. (Don't say what you did targetwise last night)

If seer later says they checked a person or they checked the center, what the seer saw could out a liar from the previous name claims.

Something else of note a solo wolf can easily fake seer since a solo wolf gets to see one of the center cards.

With that in mind I think we give names only. Then we go robber, seer, trouble with target info.

In case you could not guess by all my talking. I am the trouble maker.

Me saying my name before we know if there is a seer is good for the town as I can't lie right now about being the trouble maker.

Allomancer and StarwingBeauvoi need to give names only
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Post Post #52  (isolation #7)  » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:30 pm

That's a shameless page move

@Allomancer, that quote in your sig about a hydra, is that about some other account you share with someone or is that actually about your Allomancer account?
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Post Post #56  (isolation #8)  » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:54 pm

may want to pm that to korina
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Post Post #63  (isolation #9)  » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:29 pm

yes please give role name only
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Post Post #67  (isolation #10)  » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:28 pm

Yes^

Robber needs to give actions first based on what I said earlier

I "think" seer should go before trouble. Not sure, let me know if you disagree with this
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Post Post #68  (isolation #11)  » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:57 pm

Looked back on what I wrote before and remember now. The reason I think seer needs to go before trouble is as follows.

Seer is a role a solo werewolf can fake fairly easily. A solo werewolf gets to check a single card in the center so they can fake seer by lying about what the second card is.

Also let's say the seer checked another player and saw another player as wolf. If the trouble claims first and says they switched the seer with the wolf player, the seer will realize they are now scum and lie about their real night actions. This lie could ruin the town's chances big time.

As things stand a solo werewolf that faked seer and an actual player that started as seer doesn't know if they still are what they started as until the trouble says who they switched. Because that player doesn't 100% know what they are now, its better trouble goes after them so we can catch them in a lie, in the event of the previous scenarios.

A seer that became wolf could now be found out. And a wolf that became town will immediately out what they were so we can catch the new wolf.
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Post Post #70  (isolation #12)  » Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:22 pm

Well I claimed troublemaker before everyone had claimed. Before robber and seer had claimed. If I started the game as wolf, that means I took a risk claiming before any other power had been outed

If two wolves I took a risk that no one would claim trouble or seer moving forward since those could out me.

If I started as a solo wolf that looked at a card in the center and saw trouble maker, then I took risk that there was no seer. Or seer didn't see the same thing I saw in the center

Also if I am a solo wolf, its very possible the robber stole from me. I could be town right now without knowing it.

The only way I'd be taking no risk at all, would be if I was wolf with both chem and Allo and since that's against the rules. I would have had to take one of these risks as wolf.

I don't like taking risks. Telling the truth is best way for me to avoid risk. Especially since a wolf me could be town right now without knowing it.
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Post Post #72  (isolation #13)  » Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:21 pm

Unless you disagree with my logic, yes you should claim
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Post Post #76  (isolation #14)  » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:06 pm

Chemist needs to claim targets and results then
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Post Post #77  (isolation #15)  » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:41 pm

@Korina, can we get some prods and or more time?
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Post Post #82  (isolation #16)  » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:43 am

As looking at the center results in seeing 2 cards and looking at a player results in seeing 1, I always go for the 2 when I am seer. Especially since the player could get their alignment changed by other roles.

Guess its my turn. I switched BuJaber and Allomancer

Because of the robbing
Allo became what TK was
And TK became what Allo was

After the trouble making
Allo became what BuJaber was
and BuJaber became what TK was

So currently
Allo => Bujaber => Villager
TK => Allo => Robber
BuJaber => TK => Villager
This assumes^ the 3 of you all told the truth. If 1 of the 3 of you lied and started as a wolf, then you are now town and need to tell us who became wolf

Since all 3 of you couldn't have started as wolf, we should now either have 3 confirmed town or a confirmed wolf because of someone's lies. So did you all tell the truth or not?
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Post Post #84  (isolation #17)  » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:14 am

to clarify, you are saying you told the truth?
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Post Post #86  (isolation #18)  » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:37 am

Waiting on allo and TK to clarify the same then

If they do then unconfirmed players are me, chem, and the center (Its possible all wolves are in the center, but I doubt that)
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Post Post #90  (isolation #19)  » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:15 pm

Odd, so you are saying BuJaber started the game as wolf, you became wolf, and now you are not wolf?

if BuJabber started the game as wolf then why did he not claim he was wolf and say tk was now a wolf after I claimed my actions?

He had the opportunity to do that in post 83 or 85? So why didn't he?
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Post Post #91  (isolation #20)  » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:16 pm

That's obviously directed at Allomancer^
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Post Post #93  (isolation #21)  » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:28 pm

PokerFace wrote:Odd, so you are saying BuJaber started the game as wolf, you became wolf, and now you are not wolf?

if BuJabber started the game as wolf then why did he not claim he was wolf and say tk was now a wolf after I claimed my actions?

He had the opportunity to do that in post 83 or 85? So why didn't he?

Actually I confused myself. That should read

PokerFace wrote:Odd, so you are saying BuJaber started the game as wolf, you became wolf, and now you are not wolf?

if BuJabber started the game as wolf then why did he not claim he was wolf and say Allo was now a wolf after I claimed my actions?

He had the opportunity to do that in post 83 or 85? So why didn't he?

based on what I wrote in viewtopic.php?p=10899827#p10899827
Allo would become what Bujaber was

BUT given you robbed someone else and outed it first, I am inclined to believe that BuJaber is now the wolf
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Post Post #95  (isolation #22)  » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:18 am

In post 94, BuJaber wrote:Allo couldn't have taken a wolf from me because I wasn't a wolf.
So if he is claiming that then either he and chemist are lying or he and poker are lying.

Poker could have made up some other lie if he wanted to kill me so badly, so I think it's Allo and Chemist.

Could you explain how it could be both of them?

just to be double sure of somethings

@Korina, can you confirm that you are using the standard role resolve order for this game?

Like can you give the order at which things act during the night such as X goes first, then Y goes, etc
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Post Post #97  (isolation #23)  » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:25 pm

@Chem, any idea why you saw 1 players card instead of 2 in the center?

@BJ, so you are saying Allo was never robber. You are saying he started as wolf.

I find this to be more likely since BuJaber did not out Allo in 83 or 85

BUT if Allo did start as wolf, then I still troubled you two. And BuJaber would now be wolf and Allo would be villager
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Post Post #101  (isolation #24)  » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:22 pm

Chemist1422 wrote:
In post 97, PokerFace wrote:@Chem, any idea why you saw 1 players card instead of 2 in the center?

@BJ, so you are saying Allo was never robber. You are saying he started as wolf.

I find this to be more likely since BuJaber did not out Allo in 83 or 85

BUT if Allo did start as wolf, then I still troubled you two. And BuJaber would now be wolf and Allo would be villager

Nope

This is why I hate subbing in

I was hoping you would say something akin to "Dang I guess I didn't realize I could look at 2 in the center" Forget you subbed in, stick to your guns with a fake claim and thus out yourself.

But that doesn't matter, action order suggests BuJaber is wolf, only need to find one wolf. Anything else you all feel we should talk about?

Considering action order
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Post Post #102  (isolation #25)  » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:23 pm

that third line should not be there, bad copy paste
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Post Post #108  (isolation #26)  » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:47 am

<<staying active

I don't have anything new to say. BuJaber is wolf

Only reason I not voting to skip is I want to give Chem chance to say something if they want to. Otherwise I think we are done here
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Post Post #117  (isolation #27)  » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:03 am

Makes sense^ given your play. GG.

Chemist's claim made me think he was wolf with how 'safe' he made his lie. A solo wolf gets to see a card in the center while two wolves don't. So it makes sense Chem would also be a wolf.

Night actions really controlled the games outcome. Kinda funny that I switched things back to catch BuJaber. I think it would have been funnier if I switched Allo and Starwing/Chemist. Yes, that would result in them both being wolves. BUT neither would have known that for certain or known the other was also a wolf. Allo could have thought he was really a seer and outed chemist. Chemist could have thought he was a villager(tk) and outed Allo. Chaos would have ensued!
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Post Post #119  (isolation #28)  » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:01 am

That^ is not entirely true if you are the trouble maker. As you can not make yourself wolf or have someone else make you a wolf, you can't change alignment during the game

As the trouble maker the correct play is to claim trouble early and give actions late. If you are not counter claimed or you are confirmed town by other actions, you may lie about your targets. If there is at least 1 claimed robber you should say you switched the robber even if you did not. Say you switched them with the scummiest other player or say who you really switched them with. If done effectively, you should be able to determine if they robbed a wolf during the night. If they robbed a wolf, figure out who currently is wolf and lynch that player. If they did not rob a wolf, then if necessary, tell the truth to find out who really is a wolf and lynch that player.

Now that I have realized this^ I think correct play would have been lying that I switched Allo and Chem. BuJaber's play was fine while Chem's fake claim was scumy. Getting Allo and Chem to out each other would have been correct move. Bujaber 'should' have then corroborated that Chem started as scum and that there were two scum. Once all that info was out in the open, I would not need to say I lied about who I switched. TK and myself would vote Chem. Allo would vote me or chem. Chem would vote me or Allo. Bujaber thinking himself as town would now vote either Allo or Chem. Ideal town play dictates that you should lynch as may players as possible. Killing a town player does not matter as long as you also kill a wolf. 4-2 votes would be on Chem. 2-0 votes would be on me. 2-0 votes would be on allo. Chem would have most votes or tied for most so they would be lynched and town would win.
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Post Post #121  (isolation #29)  » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:52 am

I think that^ is only true if you start as wolf

If you start as some town role with an actual power, its better to lie about your actions than to lie about your role
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Post Post #123  (isolation #30)  » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:06 am

That^ sounds about right

Is the group you play with online or in person? If they are online, you may pm me about it
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Post Post #126  (isolation #31)  » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:11 pm

oh well.
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