Are endgamed players dead

callforjudgement · Post Post #11 (isolation #0) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:35 am

I normally use the "will inevitably win" win condition for scum. That means simulating how the rest of the game would play out (which normally involves all the townies dying).

If the scum are defined to win at 50%, then the remaining townies would still be alive.

There are some special cases (e.g. 1 Mafia Goon vs. 1 Bulletproof Townie) where I have a special case in the rules to resolve the endgame situation. In my case, the townie is counted as dying (rather than just losing) just in case it happens to be multiball. In a single-ball game, though, it would be reasonable to count the townie as losing but not dying (after all, scum can neither lynch nor nightkill them).

callforjudgement · Post Post #15 (isolation #1) » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:20 am

When the game ends I move everyone into a single "results" spoiler. There's no real sense in having them separate at that point.

callforjudgement · Post Post #39 (isolation #2) » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:22 pm

The reason mods stop the game when the result is inevitable is to avoid wasting the players' time playing it out. Mafia games last long enough as it is; you don't want to put a lot of commitments on your players' activity when there's no reason to do so.

callforjudgement · Post Post #42 (isolation #3) » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:50 pm

Unjester and Jester can both definitely be endgamed, it's right there in the definitions on the wiki.

A Survivor can be thought of as a player who wins from being endgamed. (In practice, mods tend to play a situation like 2 scum + 2 town + 1 survivor out, but IMO they shouldn't; this is just a straightforward scum win, as scum have the numbers to lynch all the townies – the survivor has no wincon reason to stop them.)

callforjudgement · Post Post #44 (isolation #4) » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:11 pm

Playing for a town win in this situation would violate the Survivor's win condition, as they have no way to guarantee they won't be killed overnight (and scum won't believe they're a Survivor, because if they were they would vote with scum for the win).

callforjudgement · Post Post #46 (isolation #5) » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:28 pm

But endgaming in, say, the 2 scum 1 town case also relies on scum playing to their win conditions. If they didn't, they could quicklynch each other and then the remaining scum could NK themself overnight.

I don't see how 2 scum 2 town 1 survivor is any different; if every player plays to their win condition, scum will win, and if players aren't playing to their win condition, they're cheating.

callforjudgement · Post Post #48 (isolation #6) » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:36 pm

OK, that's a good point. If the survivor doesn't know there's 2 groupscum, they'll stay silent and try to stay alive. So the Survivor can lose if they get lynched that day, and if scum is lynched that day instead, we reach an endgame where the survivor votes someone at random, asks the nonvoted player to hammer for the win, if they don't (say they're town who don't believe the Survivor claim) the Survivor changes vote and asks the other player for the win. So no faction has an inevitable win in that situation.

(Agonising over which faction to give the win to as a Survivor is one of the worst things you can do in a 1:1:1 ending, because it casts doubt on your Survivor claim. Just keep voting people until someone quickhammers.)

callforjudgement · Post Post #56 (isolation #7) » Wed May 08, 2019 5:11 am

In post 54, BNL wrote:Oh, and the fact that Survivor can win with Mafia is proof that endgame townies are considered alive, or the role wouldn't make sense.

Why

would

the Mafia want to kill a Survivor? The Survivor doesn't block their win condition. If they don't want to kill a Survivor before the game ends (and they typically don't), they shouldn't want to kill the Survivor afterwards either.