Mini Normal 2071 (Game Over!)

[ChannelDelibird]

Hi everyone! For those who haven't played with me before (which is most of you - it's been a long time!), please note that my username is commonly abbreviated as CDB.

VOTE: ruirui

This is the kind of rvs post i can see scum making ^^^^

(i'm not explicitly calling her scum for this rn, but noting that it comes from scum more than town imo)

VOTE: skitter

Why wouldn't you vote for Ausuka here instead of keeping your vote on a random person who hadn't yet posted?

[ChannelDelibird]

UNVOTE: Skitter

If you're not willing to trade up your 'random' vote for something more relevant the instant that it is possible to do so, then making a random vote at all seems pretty pointless. Either you think a vote is a useful pressure tool or you don't!

(I won't be continuing this discussion any further, though, as it's only likely to be a distracting theory debate and I've long since accepted that nonsense viewpoints on how to early-game are not a scumtell. Skitter's reaction to my vote is disappointing but not particularly indicative of scum.)

Very mild townlean on Inferno.

VOTE: Egix

If you were town, I would find it pretty hard to believe that you were genuinely astonished to be so (you know what the odds are every time you join a game!), especially given that apparently you've been scum in other game formats anyway. Maybe there'd be a "huh, OK then!" to yourself upon reading your role PM but caring so much that you brought it into the thread in such an overblown "wow, can you believe it!?" sort of way? No, it doesn't feel right.

[ChannelDelibird]

Remind me to talk about it after the game if you want to go into it any further. I really doubt it's worth our time otherwise.

[ChannelDelibird]

VOTE: Unvote

Hey, Bob. What do you think about stuff?

[ChannelDelibird]

Exilon, I assume you're just about to call me scum as well along with Ausuka, given that Ausuka's reason is pretty much exactly why I voted for skitter too. (And honestly rereading Ausuka's post just makes me want to vote skitter again, even though my brain knows that she's already responded to it in a sigh-and-stop-voting way.)

@Bob: You don't need to name the player you're unvoting, no. Nice to have you aboard, though be warned as we're not in a specific Newbie game there may be some learning-as-you-go to do.

[ChannelDelibird]

Is there an acronym for "quoted for absolute agreement"

There is! It's QFT (Quoted For Truthery).

Source: I am an old

[ChannelDelibird]

OK, well, in my mind, "why didn't you move your vote to somebody for whom you just gave a decent reason why they might be scum" contains a certain level of "if you think this post matches scum behaviour why wouldn't you try to push that a bit further rather than backing away from actually calling the person in question scummy" baked into the concept, but I can see where you're coming from here. I very much feel like Ausuka has latched onto the same sort of vibe that I did.

[ChannelDelibird]

The fact you put that there feels like your cutting off a potential conversation line and seems a bit like a preemptive defence.

I'm still deciding if that's scummy or null so

Garmr, I thought the thing that you were deciding if it was scummy or not was the bolded behaviour, rather than the 'naked vote and nothing else business'. If you had been clearer that you thought the naked vote was likelier to come from scum than town (which it doesn't seem like you particularly did, given that you hadn't yet decided if it was scummy or null), then I might have criticised you for not trying to push it harder too.

[ChannelDelibird]

I made my opening line OTT on purpose because I knew that people would react to it, and I hoped to gauge people's alignments early on based on said reactions. So:

- skitter's reaction reads slightly towny to me, my gut tells me it's more like awkward town than waffly scum

- urap2's is null I'm afraid

- But CDB feels like he's being too aggressive here. Not sure if the overexplaininess (my laptop redlines that, is that even a word?) is normal for him but to me it feels like scum taking the bait. Like, if he's scum, he's probably thinking "oh, awkward town, better push on him".

So, to recap, your thought process here:

>You make a post that purposefully exaggerates how you feel
>I express doubt that what you typed is actually how you feel
>This is a problem for you

At best, it seems like, because you made a post to try to get reactions, you've decided that one of the reactions you got must be from scum. Like, you say I'm being too aggressive, but you have explicitly confirmed my stated reason for voting for you, which was that what you said didn't accurately reflect how you were feeling. If anything, this should make you think I'm town, because you found me trying to analyse your truthfulness.

[ChannelDelibird]

Bob, would you mind getting an avatar of some sort? A splash of colour would help me read your posts.

[ChannelDelibird]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Delibird

whats your reason for voting for him. As it appears to be alittle bit of naked vote. True you made a post about you think he was agressive but at teh same time you were hedging your bets if that meant he was town or scum


I just get the vibe your trying to quietly jump on what you hope will turn into bandwagon.

UNVOTE:

Bob, did you consider voting for Egix in this post? Your reasoning here doesn't seem any weaker than the reasoning for your previous vote on me.

[ChannelDelibird]

also i dont' think that scum!inferno really thinks to randomly make that post about uzi there really

This is a compelling reason for Infernotown.

[ChannelDelibird]

Feeling pretty iffy about RuiRui so far. Most of her posts so far are pretty surface-level stuff ("Inferno, you're moving too fast with your reads" without really talking about what that might mean, or "well now nobody can use that for info" after the comment about reactions to LUV) without truly engaging in anyone's alignment. Need to see more evidence of desire to actively uncover the scum rather than just reacting blandly to a random post here or there.

[ChannelDelibird]

Town and town, respectively. I find it much harder to keep up the energy required to look convincingly town when I'm scum, though occasionally I can make it work.

[ChannelDelibird]

You're clearly reading in order; why did you not respond to #121?

[ChannelDelibird]

UNVOTE: Egix

I'd pretty much convinced myself as of my own #121 ('Egix decided he'd done a clever and useful reactions test, therefore assumed one of the reactions to it must have been from scum' is a reasonably common town thought process and the one that made the most sense to explain #104), and his responses just now all fit with a pretty solid 'bullheaded town' mindset. I think scum would have been more likely to concede me a point over #121, but Egix is sticking with his (misguided) thought process while still being able to open-mindedly address other issues like my calling out of RuiRui. Not lynching here for now.

VOTE: RuiRui

[ChannelDelibird]

My impression of Sashaddin so far is not yet fully formed, but I think RuiRui looks clearly worse at this stage. I don't hate the wagon for existing, but I wish it were on RuiRui instead.

[ChannelDelibird]

Slow down there, cowboy, you ain't dead yet.

[ChannelDelibird]

If you don't lynch me first I'm sure I can appear towny

:vomit:

Please do anything.

[ChannelDelibird]

FYI, I'm going to be limited to phoneposting until Sunday evening.

Those squeamish about the Sash wagon should come hang out on the infinitely more wholesome RuiRui wagon, which grows more righteous with every passing minute since her last (awful) post.

[ChannelDelibird]

yeah just going to note down these points

1-scum have day chat (noticed that due to what I thought excellion gamble was)
2-No one has calling sash town
3-The generic response I don't know if I want to jump on the wagon. With no reason not to scum read sash or town read them.
4-Been ages with out a meaningful post
5-wagon starts to gain steam out of no where.
6-A lot of my town reads are on sash wagon including confirmed town and myself.

May be a bit premature but with all these points combined I think scum stayed silent on the sash wagon to see if it would dissolve naturally and rui rui was their planned counterwagon in their day chat.

Even speaking as someone who thinks the RuiRui wagon is the best one currently available, I really like your thinking here. Well, most of it. I agree that a lack of townreads on Sash would normally be a good indicator but Sash has done pretty much nothing so far, so not really anything for scum to feel like they need to townread yet.

So I'll take you for town for now, and still want to see where this RuiRui wagon goes, but I'm keeping my eyes open. What do you think of RuiRui's iso, Garmr?

[ChannelDelibird]

I disagree that one's iso is null and the other's is scummy; it's the opposite way round for me. Can't quote it up on my phone but for time being would point to the post where I first expressed my suspicion of RuiRui for why I think her iso is explicitly nontown. I don't think it's just 'casual', it's lazy and afraid to push out the boat.

[ChannelDelibird]

I got prodded - sorry about that, phoneposting this weekend has been super difficult. Will be home in a few hours and post then

[ChannelDelibird]

RuiRui, you seem bizarrely uninterested in your own wagon.

Will put together a Would Lynch/Would Not Lynch list tomorrow with a view to us coalescing towards a lynch. Feels like a lot of people have competing 'pet votes' at the moment.

[ChannelDelibird]

Urap: I've already pretty much answered your question to skitter earlier, but: I would describe myself as a competent-but-unexceptional player who is capable of occasional great scum games but usually is noticeably worse at it than town.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'll see if I can actually find words for 382 tomorrow instead of just rolling my eyes at it. Yeesh.

[ChannelDelibird]

Skitter, urap has decided he can pick the entire town on day 1, PoE'd me as scum, so has found some nothingy reasons to call me scum.

What annoys me most atm is that it's not even that scummy; town players like this have existed forever. It's just straight-up bad.

[ChannelDelibird]

The fun part is where you get to interpret anything I say as scummy because you've already decided I'm scum because you've decided all your other reads are perfect.

[ChannelDelibird]

Like, it's entirely reasonable to have me in a 'not sure, would lynch' pile right now. I would expect most people to have me around there right now. What's not reasonable is total confidence that you can PoE everyone on Day 1 and then go dig up a bunch of absolute nonsense to support an answer you already decided must be true.

[ChannelDelibird]

Skitter, urap has decided he can pick the entire town on day 1, PoE'd me as scum, so has found some nothingy reasons to call me scum.

What annoys me most atm is that it's not even that scummy; town players like this have existed forever. It's just straight-up bad.

I will agree that on its own it’s NAI
But have you put it in context of his ISO?

Not yet, I haven't read urap too closely before this evening and am not trying to right this second (I was already trying to go to sleep and just quickly checked the thread when I was struggling to do so). Like I said earlier, planning to work out general positions on everyone tomorrow.

It's entirely possible he's scum, but I haven't got much of a previous read to compare this thing in question to.

[ChannelDelibird]

Like, it's entirely reasonable to have me in a 'not sure, would lynch' pile right now. I would expect most people to have me around there right now. What's not reasonable is total confidence that you can PoE everyone on Day 1 and then go dig up a bunch of absolute nonsense to support an answer you already decided must be true.

So then why aren't you voting me

I HAVE LITERALLY ALREADY SAID THAT THIS KIND OF AWFUL EGO COMES FROM TOWN QUITE A LOT. READ MY POSTS RATHER THAN TRY TO PICK HOLES IN THEM FOR ITS OWN SAKE

[ChannelDelibird]

None of what I am angry about is necessarily coming from a scum player. I have played a lot of mafia over the years and I couldn't count how many players I have lynched for being this bad and then found out they were just this bad. I am just trying to get you to realise that you are being ridiculous

[ChannelDelibird]

Cool. Coolcoolcool

Going to bed, I'll work out shit like I said tomorrow

[ChannelDelibird]

Sorry, I got distracted by a thing this evening. I can live with a Sash lynch (pending claim, I guess) because it feels like a slot on which we're not likely to get a great deal more data as time goes by. There's such an aversion there to committing to anything that could plausibly be either alignment but certainly

benefits

scum regardless.

Do still fully intend to drop a full would/would not lynch list but it looks like that's going to have to be tomorrow.

[ChannelDelibird]

Would Lynch:

RuiRui

- I've made my feelings here clear. RuiRui seems to be posting just barely enough to not get prodded too much, and what she does say seems to betray a frightful lack of interest in the game at large. It's all the lightest of brushes against the surface level, to the extent that she isn't even reacting to any suspicion on her at all. Pressure must be applied here to force some kind of commitment to anything at all.

High Risk Gamble

- By no means a lynch I particularly intend to pursue right now, but it is one on which I would compromise if necessary. I thought CBY seemed alright until they disappeared, but the disappearance does sort of remind me of the times when I thought I had the energy to play scum then realised that I didn't. Gamble's start looks promising so far, though, so my preference is to wait and see here.

Egix96

- Struggling a little bit here. I liked him for bullheaded town earlier but he hasn't really got his teeth into the game quite as much as I would have expected from my impressions of his style. Gave a Sash townread for (as he himself acknowledged) pretty shruggy meta reads, then hasn't said much about the wagon at all, despite it being the major one for a few days now. I'd lynch most of the other people in this section before I lynched Egix, but I can't quite make my previous townread stick for the time being.

bob

- I find Bob's posts literally quite difficult to read, which makes evaluating his alignment tough. I think I'd rather get a couple of flips and then see how other players have treated him over the course of the game to get a better sense of it that way, but I don't really feel much either way so would compromise here if necessary.

Sashaddin

- The 'I'm so awful, always get lynched, going to quit' stuff happens on all levels of the alignment spectrum, which is not helpful. He hasn't got many stated reads, but of those stated reads his Urap read (and vote) seems to be entirely based on sheeping some really pretty uninteresting 'analysis' from Inferno very early, and his RuiRui townread came out of nowhere and has NEVER been explained. He just doesn't seem able to muster up anywhere to push that he genuinely cares about, either. This could all be explained by 'player having a tough time generally in a little over his head', but you'll note that explanation doesn't necessarily require Sash to be town. So I don't know. Any scum vibes I'm getting are pretty weak, but at this point I do think the wagon will be an interesting one to analyse regardless of the flip, and there is an at least middling chance of it turning up scum.

Would Not Lynch:

Exilon

- Close to the other category, but I feel like I'm still working out how to read Exilon and it might click with some more time. So far I have very little either way, but the fact that he doesn't seem like a realistic lynch Today anyway makes me happy enough to indulgently put him in this category.

Garmr

- I don't necessarily agree with many of his conclusions but he seems to be thinking proactively, confidently and fearlessly. Strong townread.

LUV

- Obviously.

Ausuka

- Her reactions to some of the early nonsense seemed to mirror mine a fair bit, which is a good sign. Her vote on Sash reads well, although she is a little too quick to work out what her plans are post-Sash-lynch for my tastes. There's not been a lot of urgency on her part to push the lynch through, which might make me paranoid if Sash turns up scum, but for now I think this would be a pretty bad place to start.

urap2

- I really, really wish I could say that I'd be happy to lynch them just to stop dealing with them but, gun to my head, I think this kind of behaviour is more likely to come from town than scum. Most of the things that they say are a complete mess, but they're argued with conviction, which makes me believe that it makes sense in their own head.

skitter

- Paranoid in all the right places. Strong townread.

Inferno

- Playing in such a carefree way that I am inclined to townread him, and the fact that he is so deep in the tunnels on a player like urap reads as pretty solidly town to me (though I have absolutely zero interest in ego crap like 'I have a really good record of hard tunneling scum').

----

Ordinarily I'd just hammer Sashaddin right here to get on with it but I'm happy to leave it for Inferno (or just me a bit later) in case anyone wants to talk about this post or catch up on things in general (I remember at least Exilon was planning to reread some bits).

My preferred lynch remains RuiRui, but I can live with this.

[ChannelDelibird]

Looking at that list now, I'm reasonably sure that I'm giving at least one of my 'would not lynch' list too much credit somewhere, but working out where my blind spots have been is what flips are for.

[ChannelDelibird]

Whoa, actually, waiting til Friday morning seems like a long-ass time. I initially read it as a much shorter window that Inferno was proposing (probably projecting my own reaction onto him!). I'm likely to hammer much sooner than that.

[ChannelDelibird]

Solid D1 poe, mate. Well done

You'll note that I've simply grouped people into whether or not I'd lynch them on Day 1, rather than decide that I've nailed the scumteam and then go on to create reasons why they must be scum.

[ChannelDelibird]

The only reason I would want to delay a hammer is so high risk can catch up.

Agree that this is the best reason

[ChannelDelibird]

Apologies for misreading you (I may or may not have been inclined to think worse of your intentions given our interactions the other night).

[ChannelDelibird]

OK, well, let me put this slightly differently for you. Could you briefly explain why you think RuiRui is town?

[ChannelDelibird]

Honestly, it's mostly in your read on me. I've been expecting you to suddenly have serious doubts about me ever since you said early on that I seemed like a blindspot kind of player for you.

[ChannelDelibird]

Specifically, I would expect scum!skitter to stick with the 'townbin him for now' read for at least all of Today rather than start suggesting that I am scum earlier on. So when 468 came around it seemed like a townping, because I'm happy to admit that the post can be interpreted pretty poorly and I think town is more likely to change their mind this comparatively early.

[ChannelDelibird]

Pedit eh fair. Dont particularly like it still

That's fine. I would be perturbed if this one conversation snapped you back into a full townread.

What are your problems with the rest of my list?

[ChannelDelibird]

More detail if u want later (ie prob after work when i'm at a pc) but it feels kinda pontificating-y and looks like readslist i make when i'm scum and feel like i need to give reada on everyone
There's a lot of words that feel like they're ~there~ to be there so that People See You Have Reads (tm)

Kinda hard to explain (esp without pulling individual quotes up) but i'll try again tonight if i did a bad job explaining this

I understand the general idea, no worries.

I can appreciate why you might take it that way, but I'd like to note a couple of things in response:

1) You are not the first one in this game to suggest that I'm explaining my thought processes too much, as if worried that people won't be able to clearly see me doing town things. To be clear: this is what I am like as a person. I am verbose, and I want to be sure that what I am saying is not misunderstood, because misunderstandings happen easily over text communication and they don't help the town. It's also often true in my experience that if you are having discussions with another player because you think they might be scum, you need to frame that discussion towards other players every bit as much to the person that you are investigating. After all, getting scum lynched doesn't work by convincing the scummy player that they are scum. You have to convince the rest of the town. So they need to be able to clearly look at the conversation and understand why I'm asking what I'm asking and how it's relevant.

2) I

did

feel like I had to give reads on everyone, because I had been busy and therefore quiet for a few days and not been able to say much more than 'RuiRui is scummy' and 'Urap is annoying me'. It's unusual for me to be in a forum game where I pretty much have no experience with any of the other players, and it means that there is a certain pressure to do more work to be readable without a lot of shared history that makes it easier for people I know to sort me based on less information.

I also firmly believe that Day 1 is a bad time for townies to get fixated on their personal wagons of choice, with compromise usually the order of the day. So, if the RuiRui wagon doesn't get going, or the Sashaddin wagon collapses, it's helpful for people to know where I stand on everyone (even if that answer is 'I don't have much of a read') so that the town can better come together on a lynch with which the most people are okay.

[ChannelDelibird]

I could really do with a vote count to see what our options are with deadline approaching.

I expect that I will vote Sash before too long, in the interests of getting on with it and having an interesting wagon to analyse later.

[ChannelDelibird]

RuiRui - I've made my feelings here clear. RuiRui seems to be posting just barely enough to not get prodded too much, and what she does say seems to betray a frightful lack of interest in the game at large. It's all the lightest of brushes against the surface level, to the extent that she isn't even reacting to any suspicion on her at all. Pressure must be applied here to force some kind of commitment to anything at all.

Why does that make you want to lynch me? Just a policy thing?

No, not policy, I believe that this is alignment-indicative. Town cares, town has to try. Town has to fight for a good lynch because any old lynch is unlikely to work out for them. Scum is reluctant to engage because engagement is dangerous for them, it opens them up to getting caught.

You've never given the appearance of giving a shit, and haven't done a single thing that has helped town find scum. You're just trying to be ignored. So you probably aren't town.

[ChannelDelibird]

RuiRui > Sash > Gamble

Gamble's initial burst of activity then failure to finish catching up sucks but is not particularly more likely to be from scum than town - merely very mildly. Would rather get info on a more prominent wagon. Would rather lynch likely scum over both

[ChannelDelibird]

So to you I'm more probable than Gamble to be scum?

Maybe slightly. I don't have a strong feeling on either of you. I'm much happier on RuiRui, who I strongly feel is likely to flip scum.

However, if I had to choose between you and Gamble, this is why I would opt for you:

You: You don't seem to have much you're passionate about pushing on in terms of a scum lynch (which I would expect to see from town) but you also seem like a relatively unusual player which makes that harder to judge. The 'I'm awful, I'm clearly going to get lynched' is a weird grey area that feels like it should be indicative but is hard to pin down. Also, you have been a major wagon for all of Today, with various people coming out for and against your lynch at different times, so if you were to be lynched and we were to find out your alignment, we would have a lot of other people's behaviour to look at that would help us work out whether they already knew what your alignment was.

Gamble: CBY posted almost nothing that was truly readable, and Gamble's enthusiasm upon replacing in was initially positive but any goodwill there has eroded from their failure to complete their catch-up. But personally I don't think that's very alignment-indicative. So ultimately Gamble would be a shot-in-the-dark lynch based on having a lot of townreads elsewhere, but unlike your lynch there's been very little chance to talk about Gamble so it'd be harder to get information from other players' stances on them.

[ChannelDelibird]

Not at all happy about the way this is now swinging towards Sash. I don't think anyone can give me a good reason why RuiRui should make it to Day 2.

At this point, Sash voters have to move back to RuiRui in order to have any chance of a non-Sash lynch, but I'm not hammering yet. Very strongly skeeved out now. Will hammer later if I must, but I think the reluctance to vote RuiRui is not a good look.

[ChannelDelibird]

Sash voters, please ask yourselves this.

If you are a town player who's barely posted on Day 1 - hey, it sucks, but that can happen - but you've read enough to know that there's at least one vocal scumread on you (see quote below), you surely have read enough to know that you are one of the only wagons remaining as the Day approaches deadline.

Does a response anywhere below "everyone, I'm really sorry I haven't been here much, I don't have strong reads but I think I can be useful in later Days" come into play as a possible town reaction? Like, come on, even apathetic town realises they might get mislynched here and says something.

Instead, this is what we get:

RuiRui - I've made my feelings here clear. RuiRui seems to be posting just barely enough to not get prodded too much, and what she does say seems to betray a frightful lack of interest in the game at large. It's all the lightest of brushes against the surface level, to the extent that she isn't even reacting to any suspicion on her at all. Pressure must be applied here to force some kind of commitment to anything at all.

Why does that make you want to lynch me? Just a policy thing?

This, as the sum total of RuiRui's reaction, isn't town. There is no concern here. It's below the bare minimum engagement, but it is still meant to look like engagement.

RuiRui isn't just not here. RuiRui is trying to be ignored. And it's fucking working.

[ChannelDelibird]

Why should Sashaddin make it to d2 then?

Sash is visibly trying to adapt his style and be useful, engaging and open when scum in his position would have given up. I am solidifying into a townread, between the energy required for Sash to do that and the way in which people insist on compromising towards him over RuiRui.

[ChannelDelibird]

Power roles also care if they get mislynched because then they can't use their fucking power role.

If RuiRui just generally didn't care about the game that much, she would have failed to post one of her last empty-ass posts and been replaced.

That's a bunch of really shitty excuses, Garmr.

[ChannelDelibird]

Town cares. Town tries. That's the baseline deal we all make with each other when we sign up for these games.

If RuiRui feels differently, the very least we ought to do is run her up and make her fight to justify her place.

Wow, 757 stinks really badly.

[ChannelDelibird]

Are you seriously trying this on with me? 'Play to your win con' is a core rule of this game. Getting lynched because you didn't try not to be is breaking that rule.

Obviously I have encountered lots of people who were blasé about the idea of being lynched over the years. You know what they did? They showed up and said "I don't really care if you lynch me, sheep me when I'm dead" or variations thereof. Because that's all they had.

RUIRUI IS TRYING TO BE IGNORED

[ChannelDelibird]

The absolute best-case scenario for your argument here is 'well, maybe RuiRui's not scum I guess'. In which case quite frankly you should be voting for her anyway.

[ChannelDelibird]

No, not at all directed at anyone here. Just plenty of bad attitudes over the years.

[ChannelDelibird]

Ruis not scum unless sash is so why would I vote rui over sash?

This awful assumption is yours, not mine, and I will judge you for it accordingly when Rui flips scum and Sash flips town.

[ChannelDelibird]

Also not caring about being lynched like that would go against scums win condition as well. Why does it make them scum and not just a policy lynch?

a) The baseline for 'scum who don't care about being lynched' is still, just as with town, to show up and say 'I don't care about being lynched', except less convincingly because they're scum so it tinges their viewpoint regardless. That's why RuiRui is explicitly scummy here, because she hasn't done even that. She's just tried to skate by without drawing any additional attention to herself and hoped to get away with it. I'm pretty sure you are arguing in favour of a hypothetical RuiRui who doesn't actually exist in this thread; she hasn't given us any reason to believe she is the person you are suggesting she might be

b) It still wouldn't be a policy lynch, I think RuiRui's posting has been reluctant to go below the surface, which looks like an unwillingness to actually scumhunt, which is a scum trait

[ChannelDelibird]

A. So in your opinion rui is even breaking the code that scum have to follow? So why wouldn't rui break it as town as well. That's why I find your logic flawed. It doesn't rule out the possibility of town not being invested enough. It just slaps intent on a action with out considering other possibilities.

No, it is not that. Listen to me.

If all that is going on with RuiRui is that she doesn't really care if she gets lynched, even though she knows she's one of the major wagons, if she truly is just chill with being lynched as either alignment, she would just rock up and say so. A carefree townie says it. Scum who is either carefree or wants to look like carefree town says it.

By not speaking up, by posting just enough to try to look engaged without actually digging into anything, it is

more likely

that RuiRui is scum trying to be ignored than it is that she simply doesn't mind if we lynch her.

[ChannelDelibird]

but guys is it really relevant if ruirui's behaviours come from scum or not the main argument in favor of her lynch is that she hasn't even tried to help town?

It is important to me, because I believe in this lynch based on RuiRui's posting all Day. I'm not just saying 'welp, dunno, she's not been any help I guess', although that is definitely a reason why people should jump on. I think her behaviour is indicative of scum, and I think people should vote for her because she is likely to be scum. Just saying 'lurker lol' will do for my purposes of getting scum lynched, but I don't want this wagon devalued.

[ChannelDelibird]

To the point you raised here, Garmr...

I think it's pretty much the opposite. A scum Rui rui has had all day to jump on the sash wagon if sash was town.

...I do think that this is a decent argument, although I would note that if RuiRui has gone to ground as scum then she needs to be careful about what she reappears to do. If she skirts by then tries to drop a vote on Sash, and Sash flips town, I think that looks really really bad for RuiRui, and she may have been conscious of this, hoping that we would do that part of the job for her.

[ChannelDelibird]

Eh, I don't know about that. I think if you're not going to attack somebody, a half-hearted defence isn't much different than simply ignoring it (especially if you're hoping for towncred when they eventually get lynched anyway).

[ChannelDelibird]

Flaking usually comes with an "sorry I'm really busy right now catching up"

Source: I used to flake a loooooooooot

[ChannelDelibird]

I will admit that percolating on it all today has made me less certain than I was. However, I do feel pretty good that Sash is town