[SETUP] Guns & Roses

[FakeGod]

Everyone chooses a day and either a

gun

or a

rose

. This decision is sent to the mod and kept secret.

During their chosen day, players are revealed to have a gun or a rose.

People with

guns

have double-vote during their day, and 1-shot vig during their night.
People with

roses

have lynch immunity during their day, and night-kill immunity during their night.

I'm thinking a 3 Mafia vs 14 Town setup.

[FakeGod]

Yes, they kill as normal.

[FakeGod]

Oh, I don't know.

Do you think they should be gated?

[FakeGod]

[FakeGod]

It's true that if the players decide to collude, scum is in trouble.

Maybe I won't declare who picked what. Lynchproof and doublevotes are now invisible.

[FakeGod]

Invisible doublevotes sound like pain in the ass to mod.

What alternatives do you guys recommend?

[FakeGod]

I could randomize the days, but then I feel like the whole point of the setup is undermined.

I'll keep thinking.

[FakeGod]

That is very interesting.

It does add an additional bit of overhead for the mod, to keep track of which player got what vs what mafia guessed, but it does solve the game-solve of d1 all guns.

However, I don't think it's a perfect solve, since I think the dominating (but not perfectly dominating) strategy becomes mafia to intercept d1 guns for every player, and every player to pick d2 guns.

[FakeGod]

Interesting. Do you believe that invisible roses are better for town?

I'd predict that there are many more town-controlled vigs running around than scum controlled ones.

[FakeGod]

Reimagined:

Everyone chooses a day and either a

gun

or a

rose

. This decision is sent to the mod and kept secret.
Mod tellies up the choices, and the day that the largest number of players picked is blocked. (the players who picked that day receives neither a gun or a rose)

During their chosen day, players are revealed to have a gun or a rose.
If it's the blocked day, it is instead revealed that this day is blocked.

People with

guns

have 1-shot vig during their night.
People with

roses

have lynch immunity during their day, and night-kill immunity during their night.

I'm thinking a 3 Mafia vs 14 Town setup.

[FakeGod]

Reimagined again:

Everyone chooses a night and either a gun or a rose. This decision is sent to the mod and kept secret.

During their chosen day, players are revealed to have a gun or a rose.

People with guns have 1-shot vig during their night.

If there are no town-aligned player with a rose, mafia wins, even if there are no mafia aligned player remaining.

[FakeGod]

I assumed the whole game as well. "Mafia needs to kill all the town rose players".

Top [mafia + 1] people on the playerlist pick a rose.

If anyone else has a rose, they're scum.

I think you crafted this strategy assuming roses still have vig-immunity.

[FakeGod]

If top 4 players pick rose and rest of the players pick day 1 guns, then mafia has enough shots to kill all rose players on night 1 and win, assuming mafia wasn't lynched on day 1.

[FakeGod]

I'm toying with the blackout mechanic (day that is most picked = no reveal + guns do nothing) to reduce swing, but I'm not sure what the town's optimal strategy is in the first place here.

If top 5 slots pick rose and rest of the players pick day 1 gun and kill each other, then mafia wins 77%ish which is the chance of top 5 containing at least one mafia member.

Perhaps there is no optimal strategy and it's up to town to pick some mix of roses/guns and varying days?

[FakeGod]

Hmm... I need a way to incentivize roses from picking day 10000.

There has to be a gamble option for picking early day rose. Thoughts?

[FakeGod]

Right. Roses would just pick day infinity to avoid being outed as a rose.

Can you think of anything that would incentivize roses to pick an earlier day?

[FakeGod]

Or maybe just accept it as part of the game?

You pick a night + Gun or rose.

[FakeGod]

Hmm, so if rose/gun are not revealed, then mafia needs to solve the game old-fashioned way, which can be ok. Scum being bulletproof will only fix the N1 cheese I guess, since the vig will just tell people that "hey this guy was bulletproof last night - he's mafia".

I think I want to explore some other options though.

[FakeGod]

I slept on it, and I think a more elegant solution may be:

NO reveal on rose/gun - only when the player flips, they will be revealed their role
Guns pick a night and can shoot during that night
Rose pick a night and is bulletproof during that night

[FakeGod]

I think the setup is still missing something.

What if I made the number of town roses alive public?

[FakeGod]

Setup

• 9
  Town players
  vs 2
  Mafia players
  
  
• All players must secretly pick either a
  gun
  or a
  rose
  .
  
• All players must also secretly pick a night.
  
• A player who picked a
  gun
  is a
  1-shot vigilante
  during his/her
  chosen night
  .
  
• A player who picked a
  rose
  is
  immune to night kills
  during his/her
  chosen night
  .
  
• Upon
  death
  , it will be revealed whether the
  dead
  player picked a
  rose
  or a
  gun
  .
  
• Number of remaining
  Town
  -aligned
  rose
  players will be announced at the
  beginning of each day
  .
  
• If there are no
  Town
  -aligned player who picked a rose,
  Mafia
  immediately
  wins
  the game, regardless of whether there are any living
  Mafia
  members in the game.

[FakeGod]

I can run some EV calculations as soon as I know what kind of assumptions I can make.

I'm testing with low numbers to see the setup in action.