Mini Normal 2075 - Game Over

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Bambi Jay

Elsa’s given me a lot of trouble so I’m taking it out on you.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Skygazer

Let’s do this instead.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Skygazer

Let’s do this instead.

Only once before has someone voted me in rvs because "they aren't a person" but I can't for the life of me remember if they were scum or what game it was in.

I remember thinking it was scummy at the time tho.

~useless post

Honestly I think putting the jay wagon to L-1 this early was kinda scummy.

But there are 2 other vocally advocating for the D1 quicklynch so I don’t know what’s going on.

[Alchemist21]

i'm not an alt btw?

i came from calipunk forum (spanish), but it got closed down

i've read a fair bit of games here though

i thought it would be /notcool to play in the newbie queue

VOTE: rainn

Why was this worth a vote?

[Alchemist21]

Why was this worth a vote?

too cool for school, i don't care how many games they read

thus, lynch all liars

Lying about? Not being an alt? That claim is plausible tbh.

[Alchemist21]

alch i feel like i'd be a very easy push for scum you to do here tbh which worries me

I could have either stayed on Jay or pushed Rain if I wanted an easy push.

[Alchemist21]

I thought being worried early was scummy?

going for a player just because they made an L-1 vote (esp when that player doesn't like having attention drawn to them as scum) is concerning, no? seems like a very easy push to make without getting any blowback and that's what I remember from alch's scum MO from sneks and noodles

Why did you put the wagon to L-1 in the first place? Were you not worried about a derp/lol hammer?

[Alchemist21]

I thought being worried early was scummy?

going for a player just because they made an L-1 vote (esp when that player doesn't like having attention drawn to them as scum) is concerning, no? seems like a very easy push to make without getting any blowback and that's what I remember from alch's scum MO from sneks and noodles

I'm failing to see the connection, but it sounds like you have a better handle on Alch as a player than I do

alch i feel like i'd be a very easy push for scum you to do here tbh which worries me

I could have either stayed on Jay or pushed Rain if I wanted an easy push.

don't see how Jay was anything more than a meme push so i disagree with you there

why do you think Rain would be an easy push?

Very vocal about pushing the quicklynch for no reason and the rest of their posting wasn’t contributing anything. That sort of player is easy to push and could be claimed as a “cut the crap” wagon.

Also you have seen my scumgame before so you’re the last person I’d want to push based on that. Calling yourself an easy push isn’t really a good defense of yourself either because you’re not doing anything to refute the actual scumread on you, you’re just trying to play the victim.

[Alchemist21]

That U2 quite shouldn’t be there.

[Alchemist21]

Why did you put the wagon to L-1 in the first place? Were you not worried about a derp/lol hammer?

nah not really, don't see most of this player-list derp hammering after i announced L-1 or lol-hammering as town

and the slots i was unsure about were already on the wagon

The game had just started. You should be unsure about ALL the other slots, not just who’s on the wagon.

[Alchemist21]

Why did you put the wagon to L-1 in the first place? Were you not worried about a derp/lol hammer?

nah not really, don't see most of this player-list derp hammering after i announced L-1 or lol-hammering as town

and the slots i was unsure about were already on the wagon

The game had just started. You should be unsure about ALL the other slots, not just who’s on the wagon.

unsure in terms of who would quickhammer

How many people here have you played with before?

[Alchemist21]

btw it's not impossible that insomnia is purposely trying to play around urap by acting this way

but later we'll see

i'm fine with my poe right now

Insomnia and URAP having vastly different takes on how URAP should be reading him is odd. Maybe not playing around him per se but definitely worth keeping an eye on.

[Alchemist21]

implying dayvigs can be in normals

Can they? Neither wiki page is clear on that.

[Alchemist21]

Wtf is this game?

[Alchemist21]

Is it? I can’t take anything you say seriously right now.

[Alchemist21]

CJ’a scumreading me because I got annoyed with the shot that’s going on in this game. I still can’t tell if he’s actually serious or not either.

[Alchemist21]

Has anyone given a reason for Mon?

[Alchemist21]

Insomnia are you willing to vote Skygazer?

[Alchemist21]

Me and Elsa have different tells, dum-dum.

You’re similar enough on this account to make me think this isn’t true. I’m inclined to think you’re Town based on the Elsa games I’ve seen.

[Alchemist21]

Let me do an iso check

Am I ever going to get this?

[Alchemist21]

Alright then.

VOTE: Insomnia

I want this more than Sky now.

[Alchemist21]

Everyone shall refer to me as Super Kami Guru.

[Alchemist21]

Skygazer are you willing to vote Insomnia?

[Alchemist21]

I’m not going to do any ISOs unless you say “Please daddy insomnia”

In that case we're lynching you because I think you're simply trying to copy your "town meta" because Urap2 is here

So if I don’t oblige I get lynched.

If Bambi doesn’t oblige it’s pro-town behavior.

Kek this lobby

If it makes you feel better the Bambi stuff isn’t really why I’m scumreading you and I get that Jay is annoying to most people.

[Alchemist21]

If it makes you feel better the Bambi stuff isn’t really why I’m scumreading you and I get that Jay is annoying to most people.

Why are you wolf reading him in that case?

A good part of it is how he’s treated URAP and the more they interact the more I lean scum. But my reachout asking him to vote Sky was the deciding factor. They had no mention of Sky in their ISO so I asked them to vote with me to see if they would or wouldn’t. The “I’ll have to ISO them” followed by a refusal to do just that reads like they don’t want any kind of interaction with that slot and I’m suspecting they are a scumteam.

Sky willing to vote Insomnia makes me question them being a team but I think she’s smart enough to have already realized what I was doing so she won’t get as many Town points on an Insomnia red flip as Insomnia would have had if he voted Sky and she flipped red.

[Alchemist21]

UNVOTE: insomnia

I'll give the space for a town!insomnia to begin doing something other than complain for now, I expected wolf!him to react a bit different to this push, but maybe he is in a lol wolf expansion so I'm keeping my eye on him.

Back to the original wagon.

VOTE: Montosh

How did you expect him to react as scum?

[Alchemist21]

@Rainn well I don't know most of the people on site so I doubt it'd help me much. I just wanted to know why you were saying you weren't an alt when you obviously were. Trolling is an answer but I'm finding it tough to separate your trolling posts from "serious" posts.

Alt or not I don’t think it was that hard to see Rain’s serious posts, at least regarding their reads.

[Alchemist21]

Insomnia’a case on me is absolutely terrible. I’m pretty sure the only reason he’s making all these posts attacking me is because he doesn’t think he can actually defend himself otherwise. Part of his case is trying to say I vote parked on Sky and another part is complaining that I moved off Sky. It can’t be both ways. And if my vote on Sky was so scummy why does he wait until I’m voting him to say something? He actually quoted the post where I explained my vote and why I appealed to both him and sky but instead of realizing that line of thinking comes from Town he just uses it to attack my intelligence. He’s most likely scum who knows he’s caught and is just trying to shout the rest of the thread into submission.

[Alchemist21]

i mean alch

you can argue about the reaction being fake

you can't argue that he is "caught" and "desperate" though

his wagon disappeared

Yeah it disappeared because people read his rage as Towny, which I don’t see.

And by caught I mean the fact that I’m scumreading him.

[Alchemist21]

That line of thinking is shallow and associations don’t work like that. You’re basing it off of Sky gazer being scum, her being able to read the whole thread’s mind prior to anyone expressing any scum read on me or willingness to push me, etc. So it’s faulty.

Your refusal to engage me on Sky at all was scummy regardless of Sky’s alignment.

[Alchemist21]

In all my years on this site nobody has attacked my intelligence or accused me of having a big ego. And in just one game you’ve done both. That’s actually kind of impressive.

[Alchemist21]

insomnia and alch,
i want you both to sheep me onto mon, please

I never got that wagon.

[Alchemist21]

In all my years on this site nobody has attacked my intelligence or accused me of having a big ego. And in just one game you’ve done both. That’s actually kind of impressive.

I was actually talking about the other players that were voting me

Oh

No you weren’t. Idk how you can even try to deny it.

[Alchemist21]

it would also make insomnia calm down if he flips town, so we can insta-lynch mon tomorrow

Insomnia will probably just go back to yelling at Bambi after I flip.

[Alchemist21]

it would also make insomnia calm down if he flips town, so we can insta-lynch mon tomorrow

Insomnia will probably just go back to yelling at Bambi after I flip.

i don't care for what insomnia does tbh

all i care is about the gamestate

people are sheeping him right now

if you flip town urap is going to gain more creditibility and push mon tomorrow

and people will feel more inclined to sheep

A 1v1 between him and Jay will clutter the thread and be bad for the gamestate.

In all my years on this site nobody has attacked my intelligence or accused me of having a big ego. And in just one game you’ve done both. That’s actually kind of impressive.

I was actually talking about the other players that were voting me

Oh

No you weren’t. Idk how you can even try to deny it.

Well, you are saying that I’m really pressured that you gave me a vote. Why do you think i’d be scared of you? Should I?

Especially when you don’t have a case, you’re voting just because I didn’t do your homework, it’s kind of like I’m the nerd in gymnasium and you’re the bully and you make me do your homework or else you beat me. Translation : I don’t make sky to look scummier based on her latest posts, you push me

You’re a newer player. Panicking over a single scumread is a noobscum tell. And considering I usually have scum in my early-mid D1 reads I think I’ve hit the mark here.

Also you could’ve ISO’s and Townread sky and it would have made me feel better. At least I would know you were engaging in good faith.

[Alchemist21]

You know that wasn’t a hammer right?

[Alchemist21]

was it not a hammer? im not going back to count

The post just before had the count.

[Alchemist21]

You know that wasn’t a hammer right?

It’s like you’re asking for it

alch i'll give you one last chance to save yourself or i'll go back to vote you tbh

vote mon with us

Threatening me isn’t going to make me vote the way you want me to.

[Alchemist21]

Legend has it Bambi’s lurking

Alch, why the defense on Bambi?

Why didn’t you ask him to express his read on Sky? He didn’t do anything this game.

I’ve seen Jay as scum 3 times and my secret meta tell is that they try to make false associations and force a lot of WIFOM into the thread. I don’t see any of that in this game.

[Alchemist21]

How about some chicken nuggets?

Dammit how did you know my weakness!

[Alchemist21]

Legend has it Bambi’s lurking

Alch, why the defense on Bambi?

Why didn’t you ask him to express his read on Sky? He didn’t do anything this game.

I’ve seen Jay as scum 3 times and my secret meta tell is that they try to make false associations and force a lot of WIFOM into the thread. I don’t see any of that in this game.

And you’re relying on experience in a game with someone that says “I change my play style according to the player list”

I don’t think it changes that much. They don’t even seem different between the two accounts imo.

[Alchemist21]

Idk URAP. That could just be their playstyle to just ask questions. I used to be the same way.

[Alchemist21]

I’m too lazy too, I’m just giving benefit of the doubt because it’s not something I see as inherently scummy.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Insomnia

[Alchemist21]

So scum shot Rain. Hmm. Guess of everyone around he was doing well trying to lead the town.

Oh yeah - Won't say who did it yet, but since unlike Alch I'm not getting killed before I reveal it, I got Neighborized last night.

Also: Alch, you know I'm up for his death too, but any reason besides the death tunnel on me? Does he seem like a partner to Mon? Insomnia seems like the easiest policy in the world atm.

There’s no reason why he can’t be a partner to Mon. This vote is a continuation of yesterday. If you want my reasons then ISO me.

[Alchemist21]

Does he seem like a partner to Mon?

More on this, I would explicitly rule out you and URAP as partners - I don’t think URAP harbusses nor do you quickhammer a buddy D1 in a game this size.

I want to say Ceejay is Town for how he joined the wagon but I’m not as confident on it.

The other 2 get no Towncred for the flip.

[Alchemist21]

Scum’s in ceejay / roster

Why Ceejay over Sky?

What happened to your scumread on me?

[Alchemist21]

Yes. It wouldn’t load on my phone for wifi but when I switched to mobile data it started working right. Now it’s working for me on wifi again.

[Alchemist21]

Yes. It wouldn’t load on my phone for wifi but when I switched to mobile data it started working right.

Now it’s working for me on wifi again.

Nope. Wifi is messing up again.

[Alchemist21]

Town Even-Night Multitasking Fruit Vendor

I imagine there’s a role cop I’m a miller to.

Insomnia/Skygazer/Roster

Scum’s in those 3. I’m pretty sure it’s Insomnia. Yesterday he didn’t push me until I got a wagon on him, was still voting me at EOD, but then suddenly he just dropped the read. I don’t buy that his read just disappeared into thin air. And then when I call him on it instead of explaining it he just votes me. Y’all lynch him tomorrow.

[Alchemist21]

That’s why I think I’m a Miller to a role cop, because it doesn’t make sense for me to have it. At first I thought there was an inventor that could give me other Night Actions but then part-way through D1 I saw Inventor isn’t a Normal role.

[Alchemist21]

If you’re unvoting me then vote Insomnia.

[Alchemist21]

Does he seem like a partner to Mon?

More on this, I would explicitly rule out you and URAP as partners - I don’t think URAP harbusses nor do you quickhammer a buddy D1 in a game this size.

I want to say Ceejay is Town for how he joined the wagon but I’m not as confident on it.

The other 2 get no Towncred for the flip.

If Alchemist is a weak roll, that only has an action on night 2, then why would he be entertaining the possibility that there are 3 scum? 3 scum would mean that there was a chance that the game could end with a d1 and d2 mislynch (10->8->6, which would be 3v3).

In that world he's, for all intents and purposes, just a miller. Do you really think that town!alch looks at his role and the vig shot and thinks, "yeah town probably has enough power to make 3 scum in a 10p makes sense"

That post isn’t me entertaining the idea of a 3-man scumteam, it’s entertaining the idea that I could be wrong on Insomnia.

More on this, I would explicitly rule out you and URAP as partners [to Mon]

^Does that clarification help?

[Alchemist21]

@Alch

What do you think went wrong in your reading of Montosh yesterday. In other words, what mistake in your analysis of that slot do you think led to you not scum reading him?

I told you yesterday why I wasn’t. His play looked a lot like the way I used to play so I chalked it up as a playstyle thing.

[Alchemist21]

I just don’t think scum claims all that. IDK.

i dunno man, it's wifom as to whether or not scum!alch would make that claim

and, it's a role that never gets night killed.

so doesn't seem like a terrible claim to me

I wouldn’t claim multitasking as scum because I know how bad it would look. And if you think I’m not a fruit vendor, that’s easily confirmable.

[Alchemist21]

@alch who did you want to lynch yesterday, again?

Insomnia. And then he wanted me lynched. But somehow by Daystart his read on me suddenly disappeared and he only came back to me when I called him on it.

[Alchemist21]

@Skygazer, Because by the time I realized it it would have been too disruptive to claim it. I wanted everyone to focus on actual scum hunting instead of setup spec.

[Alchemist21]

And with Town!Alch?

[Alchemist21]

Wrong.

[Alchemist21]

with town!alch, I'd say insom or maaybe CJ

But if CJ isn't a role that interacts with your role, you're scum 100% of the time.

If that’s what you want to think then fine. When I flip promise me you’ll actually look at Insomnia.

[Alchemist21]

I just said if you're town, insomnia is likely scum, and I've been saying it all day, so that comment feels like you're just trying to present as not being survivalistic

I’m saying it because I feel like people are dismissing my posts about him and then will probably forget them by tomorrow. Hell, you already forgot what I said about him D1 and had to ask again so why should I have any faith that you or anyone really will listen to me posthumously?

[Alchemist21]

I just said if you're town, insomnia is likely scum, and I've been saying it all day, so that comment feels like you're just trying to present as not being survivalistic

I’m saying it because I feel like people are dismissing my posts about him and then will probably forget them by tomorrow. Hell, you already forgot what I said about him D1 and had to ask again so why should I have any faith that you or anyone really will listen to me posthumously?

I mean, my very first posts of this day showed that I rememberd your reasoning. I was just giving you an opportunity to add to it and show yourself as town, but you didn't take the opportunity

The only thing to add is to explore

why

his scumread on me magically vanished. From what I see, he knows if people start lynching off the wagon he’s dead in 2 Days. He can’t push me without addressing the fact that I was off the wagon and everything you could say about me applies to him so when I’m dead it would all point right back to him.

Like you actually had to ask who I was voting for yesterday so why would I assume “URAP’s giving me a chance to add to my case” rather than “URAP completely forgot about my push on Insomnia”?

[Alchemist21]

Well one of them is a Vigi and the other is a Neighborizor, so... Yeah I'll just come out and claim the last 2/3 roles.

Ceejay is the Neighborizor. And I'm our lovely Vigilante (one-shot. Good guess URAP).

Sky's the only unknown here.

Just to add to this.

I'm a

One-shot Loyal Neighborizer

so Bambi is confirmed town to me.

They should just make Masonizer Normal. It’s even easier to type out.

[Alchemist21]

Yeah just hammer. Go for Insomnia tomorrow.

[Alchemist21]

Alch is that gg?

No.

[Alchemist21]

I wouldn’t claim mult-tasking as scum unless I have a reason to think a role cop exists. Nothing about a scum FV + Encryptor would imply that.

[Alchemist21]

Wtf is this game?

Before I go I need to get this off my chest. Every Townie that thought I was scum for this post should feel bad.

[Alchemist21]

It might be.

Could be that it was meant to keep me from self-clearing with my Fruit Vendor role if a scum flipped since we basically have a Masonizer in the game.

[Alchemist21]

This twilight’a probably gonna last a while. Skitter doesn’t seem to pop in until 10:00 EST.

[Alchemist21]

You want us to go after Insomnia tomorrow yeah?

Yes. That’s obvious at this point.

[Alchemist21]

If I am somehow wrong on Insomnia then I’d guess Skygazer. What I said earlier wasn’t just bluster; I really do usually have scum in my early-mid D1 reads and I’d be surprised if neither is scum.

There’s a very small part of me squinting at Ceejay’s claim but I don’t want to get too wrapped up in paranoia. If Masonizer isn’t Normal for a reason then I doubt a Loyal Neighborizer passes the review process. It seems more likely to me that the people making the Normal list forgot about it. I’ll look to see if I can find discussion on it.

[Alchemist21]

Town Loyal Neighborizer

The role has been thought of before. Though this wasn’t a Normal.

[Alchemist21]

Ok that settles that then.

Couldn’t find anything else in Mafia Discussion. Doesn’t seem like anyone’s publicly questioned why Masonizer isn’t Normal in MD.

[Alchemist21]

Accept your fate tomorrow.

[Alchemist21]

Sure, Jan.

[Alchemist21]

No, and you continually saying I am isn’t making you look any Townier.

P-edit: Exactly.

[Alchemist21]

Good game everyone.

[Alchemist21]

I'm bad at setup spec, and I'd never seen a hint like that before

and everyone looked townier than him by play

According to Mastina my role wasn’t a hint of anything, it was a red herring and a say to keep me from being clear since we had a vig + Loyal Neighborizer.

[Alchemist21]

Thank you for modding!