[MAY CHALLENGE]

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #10 (isolation #0) » Thu May 09, 2019 1:04 pm

Post by popsofctown »

I really love Temporal Lich's setup but I can't figure out whether it's actually a good setup or I am wooed by the flavor.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #14 (isolation #1) » Fri May 10, 2019 4:44 am

Post by popsofctown »

Titanzar Mafia V3

Semi-open
1
Town Voting Captain

2
Voting
Captains
of
Random
Alignment
: Town, Scum, Spaceship Lyncher, or Spaceship Unlyncher
8 Town Passengers

2 Scum Passengers


Evil saboteurs rigged the engine of the Titanzar cruise spacecraft to explode soon! Captains must go down with the ship, but some passengers can be saved in the limited escape pods. A good captain would help save the passengers that aren't part of the organized crime that ruined the engine... but it's not clear all of our captains are good..

Each day, all players collectively vote one player to grant an escape pod key. The voted player will receive the key and be scheduled to escape when the ship is going to explode. A captain can never escape in an escape pod, they must go down with the ship. They can vote, but can't be voted.
When six escape pod keys have been distributed each passenger holding a key gets into an escape pod. Then, one of the town captains yanks one escape pod passenger back into the ship and sets the autopilot of the escape pod to a well-known comet instead. (The survivors will never be discovered and rescued unless we make something noticeable happen in this star system, too bad if that means one fewer pod!)

Then the pods land on a nearby desert planet, and the space ship explodes killing and flipping all 3 captains and the 5 remaining passengers.

Each captain beyond the first has a randomized alignment, decided by a d18.
1-9 Town
10-12 Scum
13- 14 Evil Spaceship Lyncher
15 Good Spaceship Lyncher
16-17 Evil Spaceship Unlyncher
18 Good Spaceship Unlyncher

Lyncher and Unlyncher do not receive their "good" or "evil" flavor in their role pm, only in their flip. Spaceship Lynchers win the game if their target dies in the spaceship explosion and lose if their target survives the spaceship explosion. Spaceship Unlynchers win the game if their target survives the spaceship explosion and lose if their target dies in the spaceship explosion. "Good" flavored roles are targeted in a way that benefits the town win condition.
When Lynchers and Unlynchers flip, the survivors learn whether they were Good or Evil, but the survivors do not learn who the target was.
After escaping the explosion, the five players living on the desert planet play a standard game of mafia with nightkills.
Last edited by popsofctown on Thu May 16, 2019 7:10 am, edited 42 times in total.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #16 (isolation #2) » Fri May 10, 2019 6:59 am

Post by popsofctown »

That seems like a good improvement, the BP outcome seemed pretty awkward.

omg I was trying to look at the criteria and figure out why Lich's was ok.

I realize now I made my setup meet all the criteria, but I only had to meet two of them. I thought nsg seemed demanding :lol:
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #22 (isolation #3) » Sat May 11, 2019 9:44 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 20, Jingle wrote:
In post 14, popsofctown wrote:
Titanzar Mafia

VTs and Goons: 5-3, 8-4, or 11-5

A formshifting member of the Skalg alien race is found in the engine room destroying the cooling core and engine shutoff switch. This luxury spaceship is going to explode, and there's not enough escape pods, so the captain keeps chanting "Humans and human children first!"

Each day, players vote for someone to escape. A player with majority or deadline plurality vote jets off in an escape pod and lands on the nearby desert planet. They lose access to the spaceship thread and gain access to the desert planet thread. Later escapees can summarize discussions on the ship but cannot quote it, like neighborhoods.

The mod has secretly chosen a population size for the desert planet before the game. When the desert planet has 4 + 2z players, the captain admits there is only one escape pod left and suggests that someone use the ship's DNA radar to help use that pod wisely. The vote for the last day is to elect a DNA radar operator. Once elected, the DNA radar operator becomes mute and learns the alignment of every player on the desert planet. Then she selects one last escapee. She may not select herself as the escapee, unless she is scum, then she may.

Then the space ship explodes killing all occupants. The residents of the desert planet panic. They play a standard game of mafia complete with factional nightkill.
Perished players still win with their faction regardless of where they perished.
Seems likely to be broken by designating an order before sending the first player. You don't actually get information from who leaves, so picking all of the 'saves' before voting just makes sense. If you pick the radar op first, it becomes autowin if town AND town has a majority on the planet. So basically its just a flipless game of vote for town that all happens on D1.
I suppose I'd need to put back in a night phase and NK for the spaceship, which removes the former issue as far as I can tell. My reason for not including one is for the setup to reach down to lower player counts, since it seems like no one wants to run an open setup unless it's small :/. The player count already has to be high for there to be a game followed by a subgame.
Then with the kills it's flavory enough I don't see need for the radar operator, which I already had concerns about, I just wanted something that resembles flips before the second game (everybody on the exploded ship should flip, which I forgot about somehow, that is nice. It seems just strictly better for the mod to post that information on the desert planet).

I'm highly likely to submit an entirely different setup after learning there are half the restrictions I thought there were.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #25 (isolation #4) » Sat May 11, 2019 11:36 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 23, Jingle wrote:Actually, just getting rid of the Radar operator is probably enough to make it not broken. It's a group decision in a mini on who plays the micro, basically. (obviously not necessarily a mini and a micro, but w/ever)
But then it's just half vote the town mafia, followed by a half of vote the mafia mafia.
The neighborhood mechanic is necessary for the setup to not be 8 ounces of diet coke mixed with 8 ounces of coke and you've made a pretty colorable argument the neighborhood mechanic can be thwarted.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #27 (isolation #5) » Sat May 11, 2019 2:09 pm

Post by popsofctown »

I can't figure out how the dragon should play.
That seems like a good thing.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #31 (isolation #6) » Sun May 12, 2019 8:54 am

Post by popsofctown »

I think NKing or lynching the dragon should result in the capture mechanic dropping out of the game. The scum lose their benefit from the capture mechanic and that seems "fairer", I don't like penalizing the scum that strongly for taking a mislynch because the mislynch is easy and/or NKing the dragon (losing their imprison is already lots of disincentive)
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #38 (isolation #7) » Mon May 13, 2019 1:25 pm

Post by popsofctown »

It's ok for third parties to have a low win %. Being third party is so fun people often don't care anyway.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #44 (isolation #8) » Mon May 13, 2019 2:13 pm

Post by popsofctown »

(Desubmitted)
Reversi Mafia


X White-face-up Reversi tiles.
Y Black-face-up Reversi tiles. 7/2 or 10/3.
Nightless. All scum have constant daytalk.
A reversi tile consists of an initial player, and a tag-team alternate player. The "white" player is town and the "black" player is scum.
On days not divisible by three, the town votes for a tile to flip that wasn't flipped yesterday. When the tile is flipped, that player is set aside from the game and the "reverse side" player is brought into the game. A tile that has been flipped once may later be flipped again.
On days divisible by three, the town selects a tile to lock into place. That tile cannot be flipped again. Its alignment is revealed and it becomes a nonvoting tree-stump (or just a dead player, up to mod).
Both day decisions are compulsive.
The town wins when all unlocked tiles are town.
Last edited by popsofctown on Wed May 15, 2019 6:12 am, edited 5 times in total.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #45 (isolation #9) » Mon May 13, 2019 2:14 pm

Post by popsofctown »

Jingle pls smash
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #47 (isolation #10) » Mon May 13, 2019 2:30 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 46, Jingle wrote:Broken by no flip.

If you just never flip a tile, you run 0 risk of an increase in scum players.
I realized that now.

And then if you give ties to scum, the town just have to flip a tile, lock it, see that the new result is town, then no-flip.

I edited it to a different probably still broken setup now.

EDIT: The new one is still terrible. I give up completely.
Last edited by popsofctown on Mon May 13, 2019 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #59 (isolation #11) » Tue May 14, 2019 7:02 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 55, Rainn wrote:Thanks for the review Jingle, and yeah, Baron is a bit problematic right now but I felt he was a good balance for town to not win so easily. However now i noticed he is kind of only dragging the game for longer because town might get cold feet and just crown him to counter a scum win.

I might either modify the role or remove it yes.

About the escape mechanic if we're only talking about the numbers yes, it's suboptimal to escape, however considering the strategic plays and the fact that a weak buddy might be getting in the way of a win, it has value in leaving it there I guess.
I find post 52 very attractive. edit: 58 looks great too. It looks fun to play and pretty balanced.
I am angry other people are so much better at setup design than I am. It's ok, I can be good at other things. I'm good at my career. Not really. I'm good at Puzzles and Dragons. There's that.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #70 (isolation #12) » Tue May 14, 2019 11:15 am

Post by popsofctown »

I really like V2 better, V2 is something that isn't being run all the time.

Like, if people play V2 and somehow decide the problem with it is it feels too mountainous (???) or V2 becomes the hot super popular setup to run over and over and then people want to play V2 but with a twist, that's when you'd need to add a baron role. But it seems like V2 already has a lot going on. Especially since the Baron doesn't "fix" any shortcomings of the setup as far as I can tell.

But like this is the thread where I think submitting a setup where everybody but N players dies on D3 is crazy and then Jingle tells me it's too mountainous so maybe it's just a me thing.


Do the anarchists know who the revolutionaries are?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #75 (isolation #13) » Thu May 16, 2019 6:58 am

Post by popsofctown »

Are semi-opens allowed? My post 14 has mutated into one.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #79 (isolation #14) » Thu May 16, 2019 7:51 pm

Post by popsofctown »

I can go with the convention of reposting.
This is what I currently favor the most as a submission.

V2 was the same as this, but with secret captains and key re-gifting. Bad idea.
Titanzar Mafia V3

Semi-open
1
Town Voting Captain

2
Voting
Captains
of
Random
Alignment
: Town, Scum, Spaceship Lyncher, or Spaceship Unlyncher
8 Town Passengers

2 Scum Passengers


Evil saboteurs rigged the engine of the Titanzar cruise spacecraft to explode soon! Captains must go down with the ship, but some passengers can be saved in the limited escape pods. A good captain would help save the passengers that aren't part of the organized crime that ruined the engine... but it's not clear all of our captains are good..

Each day, all players collectively vote one player to grant an escape pod key. The voted player will receive the key and be scheduled to escape when the ship is going to explode. A captain can never escape in an escape pod, they must go down with the ship. They can vote, but can't be voted.
When six escape pod keys have been distributed each passenger holding a key gets into an escape pod. Then, one of the town captains yanks one escape pod passenger back into the ship and sets the autopilot of the escape pod to a well-known comet instead. (The survivors will never be discovered and rescued unless we make something noticeable happen in this star system, too bad if that means one fewer pod!)

Then the pods land on a nearby desert planet, and the space ship explodes killing and flipping all 3 captains and the 5 remaining passengers.

Each captain beyond the first has a randomized alignment, decided by a d18.
1-9 Town
10-12 Scum
13- 14 Evil Spaceship Lyncher
15 Good Spaceship Lyncher
16-17 Evil Spaceship Unlyncher
18 Good Spaceship Unlyncher

Lyncher and Unlyncher do not receive their "good" or "evil" flavor in their role pm, only in their flip. Spaceship Lynchers win the game if their target dies in the spaceship explosion and lose if their target survives the spaceship explosion. Spaceship Unlynchers win the game if their target survives the spaceship explosion and lose if their target dies in the spaceship explosion. "Good" flavored roles are targeted in a way that benefits the town win condition.
When Lynchers and Unlynchers flip, the survivors learn whether they were Good or Evil, but the survivors do not learn who the target was.
After escaping the explosion, the five players living on the desert planet play a standard game of mafia with nightkills.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #80 (isolation #15) » Fri May 17, 2019 11:28 am

Post by popsofctown »

Undertale mafia seems like it has lots of even player number days in it.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #83 (isolation #16) » Fri May 17, 2019 11:46 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 82, Jingle wrote:
In post 80, popsofctown wrote:Undertale mafia seems like it has lots of even player number days in it.
It shouldn't, no. It still has a Lynch/NK, it's just that some of the lynched players can come back later.

Only reason you have evens is pacifist ending (in which case it's just MYLO, unless pacifist becomes nightless), successful Doc or Successful JK. Which is fine.
Genocide route is also evens, isn't it?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #85 (isolation #17) » Fri May 17, 2019 11:55 am

Post by popsofctown »

Oh.
That sounds boring.

It'd take a lot of work and maybe be impossible, but maybe the Named Townie issue could be removed from the setup by making a full setup of characters with fully or mostly mutually exclusive triggering conditions, and no guarantees about their alignment. So you know there's a Sans in the game, you know he will kill someone if you take the genocide route, but you have no info regarding whether Sans is town or scum. And then you engineer it to not be too rolemadnessy, Sans can't actually kill anyone unless Papyrus was Killed, and wouldn't you know it, Papyrus is the other guy with a genocide route ability, etc.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #90 (isolation #18) » Fri May 17, 2019 6:02 pm

Post by popsofctown »

I don't like for the lynchers to claim day 1. (actually, I can imagine a setup where I would like it, just not this one)
I set it up the other way, any given lyncher has a 1/3rd chance that their target is scum because the lyncher has a 2/3rds chance to be born evil. But actually that is still higher than 1/5, now that I look at it..

The unlynchers work, there is a 2/3rds chance they are trying to save only part of the scumteam, revealing they are trying to save a 67% scum amongst a town of 20% scums does not make their target attractive for reeiving a key.

I like the lynchers way less anyway, so I'm inclined to just cut them.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #92 (isolation #19) » Sat May 18, 2019 10:39 am

Post by popsofctown »

Ooooh I didn't think about that.

I do like the setup a lot just with straight town and scum captains, I don't think the unlynchers or lynchers were critical.

I'll simmer a bit about other elements too for my next revision.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #100 (isolation #20) » Tue May 21, 2019 2:39 am

Post by popsofctown »

Titanzar Mafia v4

Spoiler: Setup
2
Town Captains
1
Mafia Captain
8
Vanilla Townies
2
Mafia Goons


Someone has sabotaged the Titanzar luxury spacecraft, and in five days it will explode! The captains and passengers are prioritizing escape pods for the nearby, safe desert planet, but not everyone has the same criteria.

Each day, all players in the game collectively vote for a noncaptain player to receive an escape pod key (captain status is public). That player will be scheduled to escape the spaceship safely after day 5.

There are no nights on the spaceship.

After 5 escape pod keys have been granted on day 5, the escapees depart and the spaceship explodes, killing and flipping all captains and 5 players. The 5 escaped players land on the nearby desert planet and play standard game of mountainous mafia with a factional nightkill.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #104 (isolation #21) » Thu May 23, 2019 6:47 am

Post by popsofctown »

Titanzar Mafia v5

Spoiler: Setup
2
Town Captains
1
Mafia Captain
8
Vanilla Townies
2
Mafia Goons


Someone has sabotaged the Titanzar luxury spacecraft, and in five days it will explode! The captains and passengers are prioritizing escape pods for the nearby, safe desert planet, but not everyone has the same criteria.

Each day, all players in the game collectively vote for a noncaptain player to receive an escape pod key (captain status is public). That player will be scheduled to escape the spaceship safely after day 5.

There are no nights on the spaceship.

After 5 escape pod keys have been distributed, the players with keys escape towards the desert planet in escape pods. However, if at least 2 escape pods are manned by mafia, a terrible thing has happened. The mafia have enough pods to fly up against the other pods and ram them from both sides in a pincer action that can destroy the other 3 pods. The town loses.
If no mafia are in the escape pods, a beautiful thing has happened. A foundation of trust on the desert planet allows a garden of eden start to a new world, and they populate the planet with a wonderful, peaceful society. They don't even care about being rescued. Town wins.

If exactly one mafia are in the escape pods, something strange happens. The engine stops burning. Maybe someone had to spray oil on it every night for it to keep going or something. Both the escapees and the passengers use genetic scanning equipment, curious about the other group of travelers.

The game forks into two separate threads. The desert planet players can no longer talk to the ship players, and are informed of the alignment of all of the ship players. The ship players can no longer talk to desert planet players, and are informed of the alignment of all the desert planet players.
The scum captain immediately kills a captain. Both sets of 5 players play independent games of mafia, but the shipboard set has a scum treestump and town treestump in the form of the captains. Both games have a factional nightkill. Town wins only if they win both games of mafia.



I think this maybe needs a town PR
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #108 (isolation #22) » Thu May 23, 2019 7:51 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 106, Something_Smart wrote:@Pops-- What is the point of the captains in that setup?
Odds tbh. Having an even number of passengers allows the concurrent games to run on as similar a schedule as possible after the game is split. But I feel like mafia games tend to play out better when there's an odd number of players around. It's not even strictly speaking the case of ties, just the dynamics of cliques forming and one click being bigger than the other clique necessarily and stuff.

Possibly we could have the captains become players in phase 2? But I would want to add some kills to the ship to keep it on pace with the desert planet. in that case.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #111 (isolation #23) » Thu May 23, 2019 10:47 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 109, Jingle wrote:I think I preferred Titanzar with the variable number of town/scum captains and the yanking a player mechanics, tbh.

Both flavor wise and mechanically.

You could just do 0-2 Scum Captains and 1-3 Town Captains. Weight the two random alignment ones however you want.

And the 6, but town captain yanks one idea was pretty cool, tbh.

The new setup is very similar to BNL's branching mafia, which wasn't a bad setup by any means, but wasn't good enough to need the variation. Also, the whole first phase is pretty pointless, AND requires you to have 5 days that might as well not be there.
The yanking was actually specifically in there so that an unlyncher who has already given a key to a player has to continue to play to win. I recognized that I kinda liked the yanking mechanic in its own right but wasn't sure it was worth the extra day. Especially when you cautioned about too much gameplay without flips. But I kinda like the yanking a lot too. Being able to yank the day 1 key recipient after how they played later is pretty cool.
I really like unconfirmed alignment captains too.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #112 (isolation #24) » Fri May 24, 2019 11:20 am

Post by popsofctown »

Spoiler: Titanzar Mafia v6
8
Vanilla Townie Passengers

2
Mafia Goon Passengers

1, 3, or 5
Randomly Aligned Captains
(80/20, fully independent rolls)

Someone left the starboard side crew-only area unlocked last night, and in the morning, it was discovered that every starboard escape pod's fuel cell had been tossed into the engine in a nasty, unstoppable fire.
It's up to everyone on the ship to decide who lives and who dies. Captains must go down with the ship, but which passengers deserve to live? Surely not the arsonists.

Each day, all players collectively vote for one non-captain player to receive an escape pod key. That player will be scheduled to safely depart the ship to a nearby desert planet when the engine explodes. A player who has received a key continues to vote for other players. There is no night. The spaceship does not rotate about an axis, or manage any sort of movement at all;the engine is on fire, silly goose.

When six passengers have received keys, a random town aligned captain selects one escape pod to have its autopilot reprogrammed to an intersect with Haley's comet. When Haley's comet doesn't show up in the next star system people will realize something is up and send a rescue team. It is rather unfortunate for Haley's comet though. Oh, and the dead passenger. That too.
In the event there are no town aligned captains available for this step, the mod will promote a keyless town passenger to captain at random.

The five escapees land on the desert planet and all other players die, revealing their alignment. Then the five escapees play a standard game of mafia with a factional nightkill. Players who died on the spaceship are still able to achieve their wincon posthumously.

Here is where I'm at with it.
You could ban hydras from the passenger slots but not the captain slots, if you wanted to.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #117 (isolation #25) » Thu May 30, 2019 4:02 am

Post by popsofctown »

Here is a cheat sheet of all submissions. I don't think I missed anybody. In most cases this was the latest submission any player gave, but in Rainn's case s/he posted a v1, 2, and 3 and agreed with comments about v2 being the best submission then became kind of scarce, so voting on v2 seems most appropriate.
Spoiler: Something_Smart
In post 115, Something_Smart wrote:Oh yeah, I should post the updated version of my setup:

Undertale Semi-Open
2 Mafia Goons

8 Vanilla Townies

1 Town Character
(One randomly chosen out of six options that will be explained later)

Each day, town must vote to
Kill
one player (HURT: or VOTE: ) or
Spare
one player (HEAL: ). Votes are made to either Kill a specific player or Spare a specific player, and a player can only have one vote total across both options. Players may vote to spare themselves. (They may also vote to kill themselves, if you're into that sort of thing.) This is mandatory so if no majority is reached on either option by deadline, plurality wins out. The mafia can kill a player each night, prior to Night 4. (Obviously, this does not count as a capital-K Kill for any other mechanics.)

If a player is
Killed
, their role is revealed and they take no further part in the game.

If a player is
Spared
, their role is not revealed, and they are temporarily removed from the game and added to a separate Spared PT. However, they may possibly rejoin the game, if the
Core
is reached. If a mafia member is spared, they may continue to talk in the mafia chat in addition to the Spared PT.

If both mafia members are Killed, town immediately wins. If both mafia members are Spared before the
Core
, mafia immediately wins. Otherwise, the
Core
is reached immediately after the end of Day 4. At this point, one of three things will happen:

Pacifist Route:
If no players were Killed, the game enters the Pacifist Ending. There is no Night 4 kill. If all four Spared players were town, town immediately wins. Otherwise, all players still in the game must vote to Spare a fifth player, after which all the non-Spared players are immediately removed from the game without flipping, and the Spared players are returned to the game. The mafia kill one (Spared) player, and then the game then continues with only the remaining Spared players alive.

Neutral Route:
If at least one player was Spared and at least one player was Killed, the game enters the Neutral Ending. All Spared players rejoin the game, and the number of Spared mafia members (but not their identities) is revealed. The mafia get one kill on Night 4, plus one more if a mafia member was Spared. If this causes mafia to gain parity they win immediately, otherwise, the game continues with the previous living players and the Spared players both alive.

Genocide Route:
If no players were Spared, the game enters the Genocide Ending. The player with the most LOVE-- that is, the player who was on the most wagons that led to a Kill-- is determined, and the alignment of this player is publicly revealed. (For tiebreaks, see the footnote*) There is no Night 4 kill. The game continues with no further change.

After the
Core
is reached, regardless of the ending, the game will continue as a normal game of mafia, with lynches and nightkills, and no-lynching allowed. Mafia win at parity, town win by eliminating all mafia. (In the Pacifist Route lynching can be reflavored as
Saving
because, you know, Pacifist.)


The possible Town Characters are:
  • Toriel: As long as no player has been Killed, Toriel can protect another player from a kill each night before the
    Core
    is reached. If Toriel protects a player from a kill in this way, she can no longer use her ability.
  • Alphys: If the
    Core
    is reached in a Pacifist Route and Alphys is still in the game or has been spared, she can choose another player still in the game to be Spared during the same phase as the mafia are choosing their kill, causing the Pacifist Ending to be played out with five players instead of four. If Alphys was Spared but is killed during this phase, her action fails. If the second mafia member is spared this way, or if a mafia member is spared upon reaching the
    Core
    but Alphys is in the game and not dead, it does not cause an immediate mafia win.
  • Papyrus: On each even night, if at least one player has been Spared and at least one player has been Killed, Papyrus can target a player and learn their alignment.
  • Asgore: If the
    Core
    is reached in a Neutral Route and Asgore is still in the game, he may jailkeep one player each night (starting Night 5).
  • Undyne: On Night 2, if no player has been Spared, Undyne may choose any player, including herself, to be permanently bulletproof. They are not informed of this. This goes away if a player is ever Spared, or when the
    Core
    is reached.
  • sans: If the
    Core
    is reached in a Genocide Route and Sans is still in the game, he can immediately kill one player, after the player with the most LOVE is determined but before their alignment is revealed.

*LOVE tiebreaks between players on the same number of wagons are: Lowest sum of their positions on the wagons -> On the earliest lynch wagon -> On the earlier position on the earliest Kill wagon they are on. This should resolve all LOVE ties.

Spoiler: cfj
In post 102, callforjudgement wrote:
Connections
  • 6 Townies, 3 Mafia, no roles.
  • Nightless (also pretty much single-day; eliminations don't affect anything other than the player eliminated, so they play out more like a dayvig than a lynch).
  • No normal votes or lynches. Instead, players can "connect" with each other by mutual agreement (each connection has two players in, so a connection is formed when both players in it agree to it).
  • Connections are permanent once formed. A player can be in at most four connections.
  • When there's only one player left who's in 0 connections, that player is eliminated ("lynched") and flipped. Then the same applies to 1 connection, then 2 connections, (and then 3 connections, but at that point a win condition has necessarily been achieved).
  • If exactly two players are left at the minimum number of connections (e.g. two players left at 0 connections each), they are not allowed to connect with each other (and thus screw up the elimination schedule).
  • Connections to eliminated players are still valid, and can be used towards town's win condition, but eliminated players cannot form new connections (even if they haven't been flipped yet due to the moderator being offline).
  • Town wins (as a whole) if any of the six townies manages to connect with four other townies (i.e. survive to the end, using all of their four allotted connections on town). The Mafia win if this is no longer possible.

Spoiler: Irrelephant
In post 96, Irrelephant11 wrote:
chaos vs. order5 Order Goons
6 Chaos Townies

During the day, lynch a player
During the night, if Order is equal to Chaos, one goon must flee. Otherwise mafia nightkill a townie.

Chaos town wins by consecutively lynching 3 players of alternating alignments
Order scum wins by consecutively lynching 3 players of the same alignment.

In a draw, the team that was lynched more often loses.


Is this more balanced? Working on it...


Spoiler: BulletNLynchproof
In post 74, BNL wrote:Gonna try a simple setup, modified from one I’ve used:
The Defender2 Mafia Goons
7 Vanilla Townies

Every Day, apart from voting for the lynch, players can also vote for a Defender. The Defender becomes a Bulletproof deflector for the Night.


Spoiler: Rainn
In post 52, Rainn wrote:
Coronation Ceremony V2
11 players


7 Monarchists

2 Revolutionary Lovers

2 Anarchist Lovers


The game is nightless, and there is no factional kill.

During the the first, second and fourth day, majority lynches may happen.

During the third and fifth day, a coronation ceremony may happen and is decided by majority voting
or
plurality voting, effectively crowning a player.

If no one receives a crow (no votes), the anarchists wins, and if the members of the anarchist faction are no longer alive, the revolutionaries win. If there is a equal amount of votes to different players, the first one to achieve that number of votes and that has maintained it since achieved is the one effectively crowned.

If a monarchist is crowned, they are effectively turned into an innocent child and confirmed to be aligned with the town. If either a revolutionary or anarchist is crowned, their respective faction wins and end the game.

A player/slot cannot be crowned twice.

Lovers are confirmed to have day chat.

The Monarchists win when either all anarchists
and
revolutionaries are dead,
or
when two
monarchists
have been crowned (the player most voted during a ceremony day).

The Anarchists or Revolutionaries win either if one of them is crowned, or when the number of members of the anti-town factions are equal or higher than the number of pro-town players alive.

During the
duration
of any day (between the day start until the deadline/last vote for a majority vote), any anti-town faction that still have
both
members alive can request and name one of themselves to escape the country. If there is such request, if the player is still alive during the start of the
next
day, he "escapes", effectively leaving the game. Only one member of each anti-town faction may escape.

If a request for escape is requested, it
cannot
, under any circumstances, be retracted
or
modified/changed.

Any request for escape when sent to the moderator must already have selected a name or it's considered an invalid request.

Spoiler: Jingle
In post 51, Jingle wrote:
Hidden Reversi Mafia3 Goons
10 VT

Each day, players choose White or Black. Standard lynching. All players with the more popular choice are lynched and all choices are revealed at the beginning of the next day. Each night, scum chooses a player to nightkill. White Flag.

Spoiler: TemporalLich
In post 35, TemporalLich wrote:
Dragon Capturer v3
11 players


1 Dragon

2 Mafia Goons

8 Vanilla Townies


In addition to voting for lynches, the Town must also vote to Capture (jailkeep) a player. Capturing is by plurality vote and is decided when the lynch is decided.

A Capture vote can either use bold e.g.
CAPTURE: TemporalLich
or hurt tags e.g. HURT: TemporalLich

You can't vote to lynch and Capture the same player.

In addition to the factional nightkill, the Mafia may attempt a factional Capture. The mafia may multitask.

If the Mafia Captures the Dragon with the factional Capture, the Dragon exits the game in a loss and the Mafia gets a 1-shot daykill to be used in the Mafia PT.

The Dragon instantly loses if Captured. The Dragon wins if the game ends before this happens or the Dragon dies.

Mafia win when they outnumber Town or equal Town.

Town win when the Mafia are dead or the Dragon is Captured by the Capture vote.

Mafia may privately communicate at any time.

Spoiler: NotKnown15
In post 33, Not Known 15 wrote:
Wolves
10 Vanilla Townies

3 Werewolf Goons

1 Evil Townie

Every day, the Town selects an executioner, and a Guard.(they cannot select someone for both)
Guards are only guards for one night.
The votes for Executioner are public, and plurality-based. The votes for Guard are private, and majority-based(no majority no guard)
The executioner selects the lynch target, and a second guard(privately).
If the lynch target and the executioner are both werewolves, the lynch fails.
Each night, the werewolves attack. The Evil Townie turns into a Werewolf when attacked at night instead of dying. However, Town will be informed about the identity of the former Evil Townie next day... unless the Evil Townie was a Guard.
The Guard will defend themselves if they are visited, resulting in the death of both the Guard and the Werewolf, unless they are the Evil Townie, who gets recruited into the Werewolves without being outed. If this happens to the Guard selected by the executioner, then they cannot be replaced.
If two guards are Werewolves(Evil Townie doesn't count) the Werewolves win.
The Evil Townie wins with the Werewolves.



Spoiler: Ircher
In post 17, Ircher wrote:
Setup: Will of the People

6x Vanilla Townie

2x Mafia Goon


This setup is nightless. Therefore, the EV is exactly 50% according to the Nightless Expectation Rule.

Instead of the typical majority lynches, lynches are decided by using the condorcet system; see this link for more information. Basically, the Condorcet winner is the one who wins the most 1v1 matches against the other candidates. One of the advantages of this method over simple majority voting is that it accounts for 2nd, 3rd, etc. picks as well as one's top picks. So if you think Tom and Jerry are both scum, you don't have to choose to vote one over the other. (You still have to rank them, but inverting 1st and 2nd place is probably not going to make a huge difference in the long-run.) Instead, you can simply have both towards the top of your list, and you can rest assured those preferences are being accounted for.

(Note: As determining the winner is generally tough, you don't have to do it yourself. There should be online calculators for this thing; here's one I found from Googling.)

Because attempting to track all of these votes as the game progresses by hand is rather annoying (and difficult), the moderator instead only tracks the number of players who wish to end the day earlier. Once the day is over, the game enters a special Twilight phase where players send the moderator a ranked list of their choices for the lynch, including themselves (i.e.: it must have the entire player list), (with the person they want lynched most at the top). Players that fail to submit a list in time rank players in the order of the player list (i.e.: not random). The moderator then determines the Condorcet winner (likely using a calculator of some sort) and posts the lynch as well as everyone's lists. In the case of a tie or an undeterminable winner, no lynch occurs, but the moderator should still post everyone's lists. Then, the next day begin. Standard win conditions apply.

If 50% EV is too high, we can change the setup's composition. We could do something like 7 town and 3 scum, which has an EV of 40% according to the Nightless Expectation Rule.


In post 112, popsofctown wrote:
Spoiler: Titanzar Mafia v6
8
Vanilla Townie Passengers

2
Mafia Goon Passengers

1, 3, or 5
Randomly Aligned Captains
(80/20, fully independent rolls)

Someone left the starboard side crew-only area unlocked last night, and in the morning, it was discovered that every starboard escape pod's fuel cell had been tossed into the engine in a nasty, unstoppable fire.
It's up to everyone on the ship to decide who lives and who dies. Captains must go down with the ship, but which passengers deserve to live? Surely not the arsonists.

Each day, all players collectively vote for one non-captain player to receive an escape pod key. That player will be scheduled to safely depart the ship to a nearby desert planet when the engine explodes. A player who has received a key continues to vote for other players. There is no night. The spaceship does not rotate about an axis, or manage any sort of movement at all;the engine is on fire, silly goose.

When six passengers have received keys, a random town aligned captain selects one escape pod to have its autopilot reprogrammed to an intersect with Haley's comet. When Haley's comet doesn't show up in the next star system people will realize something is up and send a rescue team. It is rather unfortunate for Haley's comet though. Oh, and the dead passenger. That too.
In the event there are no town aligned captains available for this step, the mod will promote a keyless town passenger to captain at random.

The five escapees land on the desert planet and all other players die, revealing their alignment. Then the five escapees play a standard game of mafia with a factional nightkill. Players who died on the spaceship are still able to achieve their wincon posthumously.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #118 (isolation #26) » Thu May 30, 2019 4:03 am

Post by popsofctown »

It looks like Jingle voted on Coronation 3 though
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #120 (isolation #27) » Thu May 30, 2019 5:04 am

Post by popsofctown »

Undertale
Coronation Ceremony V2
Connections
Dragon Capturer
Titanzar Mafia v6
Will of the People
Hidden Reversi
Defender
Wolves
Chaos vs. Order
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #126 (isolation #28) » Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:15 am

Post by popsofctown »

Who's the one who actually knows how to resolve concordet voting?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #129 (isolation #29) » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:40 am

Post by popsofctown »

Wow, last? I thought it was okay...

Nice to see innovative setups in the top 3 and something very simple at 4.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #132 (isolation #30) » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:40 am

Post by popsofctown »

This is the first time I participated.

Maybe I'm obnoxious
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Post Reply

Return to “Open Setup Discussion”