[MAY CHALLENGE]
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I really love Temporal Lich's setup but I can't figure out whether it's actually a good setup or I am wooed by the flavor."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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Titanzar Mafia V3
Semi-open
1Town Voting Captain
2VotingCaptainsofRandomAlignment: Town, Scum, Spaceship Lyncher, or Spaceship Unlyncher
8 Town Passengers
2 Scum Passengers
Evil saboteurs rigged the engine of the Titanzar cruise spacecraft to explode soon! Captains must go down with the ship, but some passengers can be saved in the limited escape pods. A good captain would help save the passengers that aren't part of the organized crime that ruined the engine... but it's not clear all of our captains are good..
Each day, all players collectively vote one player to grant an escape pod key. The voted player will receive the key and be scheduled to escape when the ship is going to explode. A captain can never escape in an escape pod, they must go down with the ship. They can vote, but can't be voted.
When six escape pod keys have been distributed each passenger holding a key gets into an escape pod. Then, one of the town captains yanks one escape pod passenger back into the ship and sets the autopilot of the escape pod to a well-known comet instead. (The survivors will never be discovered and rescued unless we make something noticeable happen in this star system, too bad if that means one fewer pod!)
Then the pods land on a nearby desert planet, and the space ship explodes killing and flipping all 3 captains and the 5 remaining passengers.
Each captain beyond the first has a randomized alignment, decided by a d18.
1-9 Town
10-12 Scum
13- 14 Evil Spaceship Lyncher
15 Good Spaceship Lyncher
16-17 Evil Spaceship Unlyncher
18 Good Spaceship Unlyncher
Lyncher and Unlyncher do not receive their "good" or "evil" flavor in their role pm, only in their flip. Spaceship Lynchers win the game if their target dies in the spaceship explosion and lose if their target survives the spaceship explosion. Spaceship Unlynchers win the game if their target survives the spaceship explosion and lose if their target dies in the spaceship explosion. "Good" flavored roles are targeted in a way that benefits the town win condition.
When Lynchers and Unlynchers flip, the survivors learn whether they were Good or Evil, but the survivors do not learn who the target was.
After escaping the explosion, the five players living on the desert planet play a standard game of mafia with nightkills.Last edited by popsofctown on Thu May 16, 2019 7:10 am, edited 42 times in total."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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That seems like a good improvement, the BP outcome seemed pretty awkward.
omg I was trying to look at the criteria and figure out why Lich's was ok.
I realize now I made my setup meet all the criteria, but I only had to meet two of them. I thought nsg seemed demanding"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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I suppose I'd need to put back in a night phase and NK for the spaceship, which removes the former issue as far as I can tell. My reason for not including one is for the setup to reach down to lower player counts, since it seems like no one wants to run an open setup unless it's small :/. The player count already has to be high for there to be a game followed by a subgame.In post 20, Jingle wrote:
Seems likely to be broken by designating an order before sending the first player. You don't actually get information from who leaves, so picking all of the 'saves' before voting just makes sense. If you pick the radar op first, it becomes autowin if town AND town has a majority on the planet. So basically its just a flipless game of vote for town that all happens on D1.In post 14, popsofctown wrote:Titanzar Mafia
VTs and Goons: 5-3, 8-4, or 11-5
A formshifting member of the Skalg alien race is found in the engine room destroying the cooling core and engine shutoff switch. This luxury spaceship is going to explode, and there's not enough escape pods, so the captain keeps chanting "Humans and human children first!"
Each day, players vote for someone to escape. A player with majority or deadline plurality vote jets off in an escape pod and lands on the nearby desert planet. They lose access to the spaceship thread and gain access to the desert planet thread. Later escapees can summarize discussions on the ship but cannot quote it, like neighborhoods.
The mod has secretly chosen a population size for the desert planet before the game. When the desert planet has 4 + 2z players, the captain admits there is only one escape pod left and suggests that someone use the ship's DNA radar to help use that pod wisely. The vote for the last day is to elect a DNA radar operator. Once elected, the DNA radar operator becomes mute and learns the alignment of every player on the desert planet. Then she selects one last escapee. She may not select herself as the escapee, unless she is scum, then she may.
Then the space ship explodes killing all occupants. The residents of the desert planet panic. They play a standard game of mafia complete with factional nightkill.
Perished players still win with their faction regardless of where they perished.
Then with the kills it's flavory enough I don't see need for the radar operator, which I already had concerns about, I just wanted something that resembles flips before the second game (everybody on the exploded ship should flip, which I forgot about somehow, that is nice. It seems just strictly better for the mod to post that information on the desert planet).
I'm highly likely to submit an entirely different setup after learning there are half the restrictions I thought there were."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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But then it's just half vote the town mafia, followed by a half of vote the mafia mafia.In post 23, Jingle wrote:Actually, just getting rid of the Radar operator is probably enough to make it not broken. It's a group decision in a mini on who plays the micro, basically. (obviously not necessarily a mini and a micro, but w/ever)
The neighborhood mechanic is necessary for the setup to not be 8 ounces of diet coke mixed with 8 ounces of coke and you've made a pretty colorable argument the neighborhood mechanic can be thwarted."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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I can't figure out how the dragon should play.
That seems like a good thing."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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I think NKing or lynching the dragon should result in the capture mechanic dropping out of the game. The scum lose their benefit from the capture mechanic and that seems "fairer", I don't like penalizing the scum that strongly for taking a mislynch because the mislynch is easy and/or NKing the dragon (losing their imprison is already lots of disincentive)"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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It's ok for third parties to have a low win %. Being third party is so fun people often don't care anyway."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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(Desubmitted)
Reversi Mafia
X White-face-up Reversi tiles.
Y Black-face-up Reversi tiles. 7/2 or 10/3.
Nightless. All scum have constant daytalk.
A reversi tile consists of an initial player, and a tag-team alternate player. The "white" player is town and the "black" player is scum.
On days not divisible by three, the town votes for a tile to flip that wasn't flipped yesterday. When the tile is flipped, that player is set aside from the game and the "reverse side" player is brought into the game. A tile that has been flipped once may later be flipped again.
On days divisible by three, the town selects a tile to lock into place. That tile cannot be flipped again. Its alignment is revealed and it becomes a nonvoting tree-stump (or just a dead player, up to mod).
Both day decisions are compulsive.
The town wins when all unlocked tiles are town.Last edited by popsofctown on Wed May 15, 2019 6:12 am, edited 5 times in total."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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Jingle pls smash"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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I realized that now.In post 46, Jingle wrote:Broken by no flip.
If you just never flip a tile, you run 0 risk of an increase in scum players.
And then if you give ties to scum, the town just have to flip a tile, lock it, see that the new result is town, then no-flip.
I edited it to a different probably still broken setup now.
EDIT: The new one is still terrible. I give up completely.Last edited by popsofctown on Mon May 13, 2019 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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I find post 52 very attractive. edit: 58 looks great too. It looks fun to play and pretty balanced.In post 55, Rainn wrote:Thanks for the review Jingle, and yeah, Baron is a bit problematic right now but I felt he was a good balance for town to not win so easily. However now i noticed he is kind of only dragging the game for longer because town might get cold feet and just crown him to counter a scum win.
I might either modify the role or remove it yes.
About the escape mechanic if we're only talking about the numbers yes, it's suboptimal to escape, however considering the strategic plays and the fact that a weak buddy might be getting in the way of a win, it has value in leaving it there I guess.
I am angry other people are so much better at setup design than I am. It's ok, I can be good at other things. I'm good at my career. Not really. I'm good at Puzzles and Dragons. There's that."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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I really like V2 better, V2 is something that isn't being run all the time.
Like, if people play V2 and somehow decide the problem with it is it feels too mountainous (???) or V2 becomes the hot super popular setup to run over and over and then people want to play V2 but with a twist, that's when you'd need to add a baron role. But it seems like V2 already has a lot going on. Especially since the Baron doesn't "fix" any shortcomings of the setup as far as I can tell.
But like this is the thread where I think submitting a setup where everybody but N players dies on D3 is crazy and then Jingle tells me it's too mountainous so maybe it's just a me thing.
Do the anarchists know who the revolutionaries are?"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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Are semi-opens allowed? My post 14 has mutated into one."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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I can go with the convention of reposting.
This is what I currently favor the most as a submission.
V2 was the same as this, but with secret captains and key re-gifting. Bad idea.
Titanzar Mafia V3
Semi-open
1Town Voting Captain
2VotingCaptainsofRandomAlignment: Town, Scum, Spaceship Lyncher, or Spaceship Unlyncher
8 Town Passengers
2 Scum Passengers
Evil saboteurs rigged the engine of the Titanzar cruise spacecraft to explode soon! Captains must go down with the ship, but some passengers can be saved in the limited escape pods. A good captain would help save the passengers that aren't part of the organized crime that ruined the engine... but it's not clear all of our captains are good..
Each day, all players collectively vote one player to grant an escape pod key. The voted player will receive the key and be scheduled to escape when the ship is going to explode. A captain can never escape in an escape pod, they must go down with the ship. They can vote, but can't be voted.
When six escape pod keys have been distributed each passenger holding a key gets into an escape pod. Then, one of the town captains yanks one escape pod passenger back into the ship and sets the autopilot of the escape pod to a well-known comet instead. (The survivors will never be discovered and rescued unless we make something noticeable happen in this star system, too bad if that means one fewer pod!)
Then the pods land on a nearby desert planet, and the space ship explodes killing and flipping all 3 captains and the 5 remaining passengers.
Each captain beyond the first has a randomized alignment, decided by a d18.
1-9 Town
10-12 Scum
13- 14 Evil Spaceship Lyncher
15 Good Spaceship Lyncher
16-17 Evil Spaceship Unlyncher
18 Good Spaceship Unlyncher
Lyncher and Unlyncher do not receive their "good" or "evil" flavor in their role pm, only in their flip. Spaceship Lynchers win the game if their target dies in the spaceship explosion and lose if their target survives the spaceship explosion. Spaceship Unlynchers win the game if their target survives the spaceship explosion and lose if their target dies in the spaceship explosion. "Good" flavored roles are targeted in a way that benefits the town win condition.
When Lynchers and Unlynchers flip, the survivors learn whether they were Good or Evil, but the survivors do not learn who the target was.
After escaping the explosion, the five players living on the desert planet play a standard game of mafia with nightkills."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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popsofctown SheSurvivor
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Undertale mafia seems like it has lots of even player number days in it."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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Genocide route is also evens, isn't it?In post 82, Jingle wrote:
It shouldn't, no. It still has a Lynch/NK, it's just that some of the lynched players can come back later.In post 80, popsofctown wrote:Undertale mafia seems like it has lots of even player number days in it.
Only reason you have evens is pacifist ending (in which case it's just MYLO, unless pacifist becomes nightless), successful Doc or Successful JK. Which is fine."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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Oh.
That sounds boring.
It'd take a lot of work and maybe be impossible, but maybe the Named Townie issue could be removed from the setup by making a full setup of characters with fully or mostly mutually exclusive triggering conditions, and no guarantees about their alignment. So you know there's a Sans in the game, you know he will kill someone if you take the genocide route, but you have no info regarding whether Sans is town or scum. And then you engineer it to not be too rolemadnessy, Sans can't actually kill anyone unless Papyrus was Killed, and wouldn't you know it, Papyrus is the other guy with a genocide route ability, etc."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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popsofctown SheSurvivor
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I don't like for the lynchers to claim day 1. (actually, I can imagine a setup where I would like it, just not this one)
I set it up the other way, any given lyncher has a 1/3rd chance that their target is scum because the lyncher has a 2/3rds chance to be born evil. But actually that is still higher than 1/5, now that I look at it..
The unlynchers work, there is a 2/3rds chance they are trying to save only part of the scumteam, revealing they are trying to save a 67% scum amongst a town of 20% scums does not make their target attractive for reeiving a key.
I like the lynchers way less anyway, so I'm inclined to just cut them."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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Ooooh I didn't think about that.
I do like the setup a lot just with straight town and scum captains, I don't think the unlynchers or lynchers were critical.
I'll simmer a bit about other elements too for my next revision."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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Titanzar Mafia v4
Spoiler: Setup"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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Titanzar Mafia v5
Spoiler: Setup
I think this maybe needs a town PR"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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Odds tbh. Having an even number of passengers allows the concurrent games to run on as similar a schedule as possible after the game is split. But I feel like mafia games tend to play out better when there's an odd number of players around. It's not even strictly speaking the case of ties, just the dynamics of cliques forming and one click being bigger than the other clique necessarily and stuff.In post 106, Something_Smart wrote:@Pops-- What is the point of the captains in that setup?
Possibly we could have the captains become players in phase 2? But I would want to add some kills to the ship to keep it on pace with the desert planet. in that case."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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The yanking was actually specifically in there so that an unlyncher who has already given a key to a player has to continue to play to win. I recognized that I kinda liked the yanking mechanic in its own right but wasn't sure it was worth the extra day. Especially when you cautioned about too much gameplay without flips. But I kinda like the yanking a lot too. Being able to yank the day 1 key recipient after how they played later is pretty cool.In post 109, Jingle wrote:I think I preferred Titanzar with the variable number of town/scum captains and the yanking a player mechanics, tbh.
Both flavor wise and mechanically.
You could just do 0-2 Scum Captains and 1-3 Town Captains. Weight the two random alignment ones however you want.
And the 6, but town captain yanks one idea was pretty cool, tbh.
The new setup is very similar to BNL's branching mafia, which wasn't a bad setup by any means, but wasn't good enough to need the variation. Also, the whole first phase is pretty pointless, AND requires you to have 5 days that might as well not be there.
I really like unconfirmed alignment captains too."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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Spoiler: Titanzar Mafia v6
Here is where I'm at with it.
You could ban hydras from the passenger slots but not the captain slots, if you wanted to."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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Here is a cheat sheet of all submissions. I don't think I missed anybody. In most cases this was the latest submission any player gave, but in Rainn's case s/he posted a v1, 2, and 3 and agreed with comments about v2 being the best submission then became kind of scarce, so voting on v2 seems most appropriate.
Spoiler: Something_Smart
Spoiler: cfj
Spoiler: Irrelephant
Spoiler: BulletNLynchproof
Spoiler: Rainn
Spoiler: Jingle
Spoiler: TemporalLich
Spoiler: NotKnown15
Spoiler: Ircher
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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It looks like Jingle voted on Coronation 3 though"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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Undertale
Coronation Ceremony V2
Connections
Dragon Capturer
Titanzar Mafia v6
Will of the People
Hidden Reversi
Defender
Wolves
Chaos vs. Order"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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popsofctown SheSurvivor
- popsofctown
She- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 12356
- Joined: September 23, 2008
- Pronoun: She
Who's the one who actually knows how to resolve concordet voting?"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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popsofctown SheSurvivor
- popsofctown
She- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 12356
- Joined: September 23, 2008
- Pronoun: She
Wow, last? I thought it was okay...
Nice to see innovative setups in the top 3 and something very simple at 4."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- popsofctown
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popsofctown SheSurvivor
- popsofctown
She- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 12356
- Joined: September 23, 2008
- Pronoun: She
This is the first time I participated.
Maybe I'm obnoxious"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?" - popsofctown
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