GuyInFreezer's Mini Normal Review, April 2019

[mastina]

Yeah only one VT in this setup is a hard-veto.
Setup might technically follow Normal guidelines, but this is absolutely more of a theme game.

[mastina]

Is that up to date nowadays

Actually no, the best source is implosion's thread in tandem with the list, because implosion's thread has content that the list does not. The list SHOULD be the best source...but ISN'T because people are a bit lazy and haven't updated it.

(The main reason I haven't is because I'm always concerned that me updating the list could be directly correlated to games I reviewed, e.g. me updating the list now could be seen as something specifically tied to this review.)

[mastina]

Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Town Mason
Town Mason Multitasking Compulsive-Fruit Vendor Visitor
Town Multitasking Compulsive-Fruit Vendor Visitor
Town Multitasking Compulsive-Fruit Vendor Visitor
Town Tracker
Town Doctor
Town 1-shot Vigilante


vs

Mafia Neapolitan
Mafia Nurse
Mafia Multitasking Compulsive-Fruit Vendor Fruit Vendor and Visitor Enabler

By the way, for clear role wording:
If both the fruit vend and visit are meant to be compulsive, I'd put "Compulsive fruit vendor, Compulsive Visitor" to clarify.
I'd also make the Mafia Multitasking Compulsive Fruit Vendor, Fruit Vendor/Visitor Enabler similarly clarified as,
Mafia Multitasking Compulsive-Fruit Vendor Fruit Vendor Enabler Visitor Enabler.

Normalcy wise, this is more in the zone of acceptable and not a theme game. It's still clearly thematic, but I'm not going to outright veto this because it's a step in the right direction.
Balance-wise, it's also a step in the right direction.

It'll take me a little bit of time to number-crunch it and run the mental math to see if it's actually balanced, but eyeballing it, it's PROBABLY within the 50%-give-or-take-10% range, albeit likely not dead-50%. (At a guess, probably ~57% scum? Like I said, need a little time to think it over.)

[mastina]

hmm

as a secondary reviewer should i do something here

Well your feedback helps refine my thoughts here. For instance, thinking that the town might have one too many fruit vendors (I'm not opposed to having multiple fruit vendor visitors in a game) right now.

Or maybe dropping the enabler altogether, so that it's something there the whole game.

I don't think that the setup needs fundamental revision because it in spite of being thematic is within the basic range of a Normal. (For instance, I ran a Normal with four town JOATs and a scum JOAT: thematic, but still Normal. That's what I mean.)

I do think that the finer points of it, the details, could be tweaked, and that's what you can help with.

I'm fine with thematic, as long as it's not TOO themed. Thematic can give the game a flair; THEMED belongs in a different queue.

The game as is, I'd call closer to thematic than Themed, but I'm still a bit hesitant. Also, balance doesn't quite seem "on the mark", even if it's close.

[mastina]

So, would this be what we're working with then?:
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Town Mason
Town Mason Multitasking Compulsive-Fruit Vendor Visitor
Town Multitasking Compulsive-Fruit Vendor Visitor
Town Tracker
Town Doctor
Town 1-shot Vigilante


vs

Mafia Neapolitan
Mafia Nurse
Mafia Multitasking Compulsive-Fruit Vendor Fruit Vendor Enabler Visitor Enabler


If so, then I'm okay with the Normalcy and would just need to get further refinement; since the 1x vig would get the game on evens unless the doctor/nurse protected successfully (an event unlikely to happen), I'd recommend bumping the vig up to 2x for balance.

With that change, I'd call it as close to the mark as you'll get; you've got a weak investigative, a decent protective, a decent killing role, and masons, against a now-not-useless Neapolitan investigative, Enabler that weakens the tracker, and Nurse.

It'd just be refining the details as I mentioned;
Is both the fruit vend and visit compulsive, or is only the fruit vend compulsive?

[mastina]

Is both the fruit vend and visit compulsive, or is only the fruit vend compulsive?

Both

Alright, then, for clarity I'd recommend specifying that in the wording:

Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Town Mason
Town Mason Multitasking Compulsive-Fruit Vendor Compulsive-Visitor
Town Multitasking Compulsive-Fruit Vendor Compulsive-Visitor
Town Tracker
Town Doctor
Town 1-shot Vigilante


vs

Mafia Neapolitan
Mafia Nurse
Mafia Multitasking Compulsive-Fruit Vendor Fruit Vendor Enabler Visitor Enabler

[mastina]

Mafia Multitasking Compulsive-Fruit Vendor Fruit Vendor Enabler Visitor Enabler

And speaking of which: is the lack of 'Compulsive Visitor' here intentional?

[mastina]

Alright, good, just checking!

[mastina]

So this is done?

No we need role PMs and such, but the balance/Normalcy is.

[mastina]

If you are the last remaining member of your faction, you may use your ability and nightkill simultaneously.

I'm not sure if this is Normal or not. Gimme a lil' bit to check on that.

[mastina]

It's not.

Well that saves me the effort of looking.

Soyeah, need to change that.

[mastina]

Final thing to ask for and then we're good; can I get the formatting of your Tracker/Neapolitan result PMs? (Including a hypothetical No Result PM even though this setup doesn't have a way for that result to exist.) Want to make sure they're Normal, just in case.

[mastina]

There needs to be a Target Did not Visit result, since No Result is specifically for FAILED actions; a player not visiting is NOT No Result in Normals.

Would that be, "Target visited nobody"? If so, then /pass. Just need to make sure that that's the case.

[mastina]

also technically a result for visiting multiple players since that's the whole point of the setup

Yes, that too.
I assume that it's "Target visited player and player"?

[mastina]

Yep!
That's a /pass.