Mini 2074: Madness at Port Arthur (Game Over)

[Persivul]

First!

[Persivul]

VOTE: Fuscezu

For having a name too close too fuscosco.

[Persivul]

Persivul you town?

Yep. You?

[Persivul]

Ye
Gonna lovktown you for now because I really do struggle to read you and randomness is on my side
Nobody touch Persivul he’s our D1 IC

I endorse this product or service.

And I miss farside...

[Persivul]

Yoooooo.
Something that maybe needs to be said: We are a 5-people hydra, and we don't plan on signing our actual usernames, and use magical girl code names instead, hopefully that won't be a problem. We're cool though, I promise. Also It's not exactly hard to find who the five of us are.

Anyway, I believe the only person I played with before is Chara, so, hello hello to people, this is Cure March. I'll leave the RVS to the other girls.

- March

How do you feel about policy lynches on hydras with >4 heads?

No particular reason I asked, just making RVS conversation...

[Persivul]

VOTE: skitter

[Persivul]

There are two Jailkeepers. I suggest that the Town try and keep them alive.

Interesting!

Also note that this game has

plurality lynching

.

[Persivul]

VOTE: skitter

@mod I’m on v/la this week

I should maybe do the v/la tags huh

VOTE: skitter

@mod I’m on v/la this week

I should maybe do the v/la tags huh

Oops this should have been a PM huh
Well whatever functionally I’ll probably still make time to show up all week tbh

The first post pinged me as self-conscious, but first post so whatever.

Talking about it AGAIN so soon...pretty sus.

[Persivul]

I am town.

You announced that because...?

[Persivul]

It was a sort-of apology to funkybike because you pointed out something from a mod post so I read through all the words of the mod posts and i noticed the rule about PMing the mod if you’re v/la which is already done wrong

That's not a bad answer.

[Persivul]

mmmmmmmmy only idea of Percy comes from replacing in for him in Zulfy's game. I also expected him to immediately shush and table the role-fishing Town JK discussion because of his "by the book" playstyle that Vedith described.

I didn't see any rolefishing. That was setup spec, which in a semi-open is fair game according to the book.

My top of the head thoughts on it: JKs are town. At some point they can claim and thereby conftown themselves, as a fake claim would presumably be CC'd. PLUS, they can protect each other that night. If they can avoid being NK'd or run up and forced to claim, they should probably claim a day before potential lylo.

Percy in post 23 should have voted elephant since he is the type to hop on players like skitter for pressure in the first place anyway I also got a bad feeling from elephant's first few posts in the same way that I did on Flavor Leaf in that game.

I considered voting there, but I have experience with him and gave him opportunity to explain, and as noted in my follow up, I was satisfied with the explanation. Although I didn't go back and read the rules to verify, which I probably should.

[Persivul]

What posts of elephant’s ping you? He seems to be interested in pushing skitter at the moment,

Why do you read a RVS wagon as a serious push? Lots of people do that just to see what happens. It rarely goes to lynch.

[Persivul]

but still encourages early role discussion felt counterintuitive to me.

I get that if someone does nothing but setup spec it's scummy, but aside from that - what do you have against it?

Site meta lately is premature ejaclaimation. People can't keep their mouths shut. If proper use of known roles is to wait until later before claiming, pointing that out seems appropriate.

[Persivul]

And all of you seem to know each other. I feel left out

Everyone started that way...

[Persivul]

Vedith meta is catching on and I like it.

Why?

[Persivul]

No, not much similarity between me and Vedith.

[Persivul]

Persi!!!! Long time no see

Uh, aren't you supposed to be in a hydra?

[Persivul]

If we're going to talk about awkward entrances, this is the most awkward of them all! I love awkward people, they're funny! But this is no fun, this is scum!

VOTE: Baezu

I'm glad to help y'all!

You didn't help, as Baezu isn't actually in the player list.

[Persivul]

why did you mention her?

Because she used to say the product or service line I used. That's where I got it.

[Persivul]

So far tris is playing nothing like she did in Room Odds, in which she was town.

[Persivul]

So far tris is playing nothing like she did in Room Odds, in which she was town.

This is accurate.

Why the change?

[Persivul]

i'm pretty sure the rules say that v/la should be pm'd and not posted in thread; it kinda makes sense for this to follow your post pointing out that this game has plurality lynching - he probably went back to read the rule post and then saw the thing about v/la so mentioned it

That's either an uncannily keen observation...or you read ahead and are only pretending to be doing a post by post catch-up.

[Persivul]

i kinda feel like the op meant for the jk's to be alignment neutral, but the below kinda slipped/insinuated by mistake taht they're town-aligned (or, at the very least, that the jk's being alive is helpful to town which would imply that they're probably not scum). i'm not sure if we were supposed ot have that info tho

I don't get this. I don't see how mod accidentally typed the sentence, or why you would even speculate about that.

[Persivul]

I'm surprised at you handing her a townread so easily after that last newbie game

Why, did she play a good scum game? What number was it?

[Persivul]

Feels like a lot of the experienced ones are debating mafia theory rather than anything about this game too so I'm kinda just hoping for a brainwave rn.

This feels like an excuse not to post. There's been some setup spec, but not that much. And personally when I was a newbie I was pretty interested in role mechanics. Why aren't you?

[Persivul]

Debating theory/outguessing the mod always tends to be a thing in these games. It very rarely works.
The text of the OP regarding the Jailkeepers was intentional; this is

not

a confirmation that both are Town.

Oh come on. You mentioned it publicly for a reason.

[Persivul]

Debating theory/outguessing the mod always tends to be a thing in these games. It very rarely works.
The text of the OP regarding the Jailkeepers was intentional; this is

not

a confirmation that both are Town.

VOTE COUNT

7 of 13 votes are required to lynch.

Shiidaji (3):

Chara, Irrelephant11, tris

skitter30 (2):

Persivul, insomnia

Irrelephant11 (2):

Shiidaji, RCEnigma

Fuscezu (1):

Smile

Miss Kobayashi Maru (1):

ClearlyClarity

ceejayvinoya (1):

skitter30

ClearlyClarity (1):

Miss Kobayashi Maru

Not Voting (2):

Fuscezu, ceejayvinoya

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-05-22 12:00:00)

Can someone make a scum case on ceejay? I thought his unvote looked townie, I don't get all the votes on him

All the votes? There's one. Someone's not reading the thread, but trying to act all townie by challenging a (nonexistent) wagon.

VOTE: insomnia

[Persivul]

Spoiler:

tris — thoughts on this after skitter posted and MKM still has not?

even if you took that seriously I'm really confused what thought process led to this post

VOTE: Clarity

delayed OMGUS ftw

I feel like this is a safe spot where scum would park their vote for a while, I'm getting weird vibes off of this.

VOTE: Miss Kobaamwgmagmwam [/v]

VOTE: Miss Kobayamfasmmwaghoahwpa

there ya go

I'm waiting for a little more content as I don't like your posts thus far

One could say exactly the same about your push and vote above.

[Persivul]

Because I didn't post for 6 minutes?

[Persivul]

as an identically new player I'm interested in the setup stuff but don't really feel like I can participate in it or constructively comment on it, so I can understand it contributing to newbie stage fright

Fair enough. I used to talk out the mechanics even though I was frequently wrong, but that's me I suppose.

[Persivul]

I am actually quite interested in the mechanics of this game, though. What's the usual meta for Mini Theme games that have a closed setup?

Not exactly sure what you're asking, but FWIW: tomorrow someone will likely push for massclaim, but most will say no and it won't happen until D3 or D4. I have no clue why, but a lot of people think they can solve a closed game from the claims. IMO it usually just makes it easier for the scum to pick their NKs. BUT, this is semi-open, and although mod is now denying it, I think the JK info can be used to our advantage.

[Persivul]

Hellooo I'm here and this is completely unrelated but I just became a corporate slave wooooohoooo

catching up

btw Cure Happy's busy lately but she'll show up.

- Cure March

Hey, another useless post from the hydra. Imagine that!

[Persivul]

Game-Specific Information and Role Interactions
37. This is a closed setup... for the most part. Some elements of the setup are public and listed below.
38. There are two Jailkeepers in this setup. The first time they both target each other, they are both protected. The second and subsequent times, they are both roleblocked and not protected.
39. The Mafia is the only groupscum faction in this game. There may or may not be additional scum or third-party factions.
40. There are no bastard elements in this game; I will never deliberately lie to you outside the bounds of normal gameplay. All investigative roles are Sane unless they are explicitly told they have a chance to be non-Sane.
41. There are no Cults, Survivors, Jesters, or Unjesters. The role you receive is the role and alignment you will have for the entire game unless your role PM specifically tells you otherwise.
42. This game begins on Night 0. No killing actions may be taken on Night 0, but all other Night actions may take place.

K so I have a couple questions regarding this:

- I saw the speculation on the alignment of the double JK earlier but I've never suspected that they could be any alignment other than town. If mod wanted roleblocking scum, wouldn't they just make them Mafia RB? Unless mod wanted to purposely misread town by making one scum JK?
- If mafia is the only groupscum faction and there's additional scum, does that mean that scum is in a third-party? Are they the only scum of that hypothetical third-party?
- Third-party factions indicate roles like SK or Survivor iirc? I haven't ever played in any games with those roles, what's the meta?

JKs can be scum too, but since mod said we should keep them alive, that pretty much means that they're town, unless mod royally screwed up.

There's only one scum faction (i.e. team), but there could be a 3P, which would probably be a SK.

[Persivul]

skitter you should come vote shiidaji

I feel left out.

[Persivul]

Do you town read skitter or just not scum read her?

[Persivul]

So Persivul are you going to hop off already or what?

I thought you were going on with a push.

Why are you so different here from last time I played with town!you and it was a total shitshow?

[Persivul]

To elaborate more on Smile townlean which is pretty much the sole read I’m slightly sure about: I feel like their scattered thoughts and reads are more town-indicative because as scum they’d be more likely to collaborate on their posts so that they’re not likely to contradict each other. That they’re just throwing out their individual thoughts without much consideration vibes town to me

Yeah...but their individual thoughts add up to a whole bunch of not much.

[Persivul]

Dead game. Looks like 4 people need prods.

[Persivul]

VOTE: shiidaji

[Persivul]

he placed a vote for something that is shallow af

It was still early in the game - far too early for a position that was deep and nuanced.

[Persivul]

How about shiidaji? Made a couple decent posts but then went silent. I've been noticing lately scum who can do a decent job of faking scum hunting, but only in small doses. I think that's what we're seeing here.

[Persivul]

Are you trying to convince me? ...I'm the reason you're voting shiidaji, I thought?

It's been so long since a VC I don't know what the votes are like.

I agree shii's posts are sorta scummy. Pretty sure shii's been absent sitewide though, so idk how AI that is

I've gone dark sitewide to lose heat, so that doesn't mean much to me.

[Persivul]

Cool, actual competing wagons.

[Persivul]

Why has Baezu not been replaced yet?

-Beauty

Because he's not in the game as Baezu. He's in the fuscezu hydra.

[Persivul]

LHF wagons are really bad for vca

Scums literally as likely to defend LHF with minimal content as attack it.

Maybe you should actually vote then, and start a good wagon.

[Persivul]

Im sorely tempted to vote irre the more of him i read.

I don't think that's a good vote.

[Persivul]

Irrelephant11 - Hate it, but guttown it.

That's better.

[Persivul]

Yeah this is also how I'm feeling about the game rn. I normally don't lurk as much as I have this game as town but the environment of this lobby is completely different from that I've been used to from games I usually am in. Every post I've seen so far feels the same, like I'd read through 5 pages of the game and get absolutely nothing out of it. I'm probably just bad at the game or w/e but I'm entirely lost

Yep, I've been feeling the same way. I'm frequently somewhat rude/aggressive on D1 in order to generate content, but no one seems to understand that method on this site and I get scum read for it. I'm tired of spending the game defending, so I'm purposely backing off in this game. The downside is that nothing much is happening.

[Persivul]

Percy why did you drop your push on insomnia, when we could have gotten something going
especially when the new vote is shiidaji which fundamentally does nothing

- March

Could have gotten something going? It was going nowhere. It was a waste to have it there. shiidaji otoh is a viable wagon and whatever happens with it, we'll get some info out of it.

[Persivul]

You say something like this, but you're vote is on a slot that's probably going to be replaced.

Have you ever replaced into a scum slot with a wagon already on you? I have. It's not fun. A vote there was much, much more productive than no vote at all.

[Persivul]

I'd much prefer you being aggressive than not engaging like you've been.

OK - stop making bad comments like the one above.

[Persivul]

For some reason it seems like no one's really expressed a read on me. Does anyone want to give it a shot?

Sure - scummy side of null. Your ISO is a bunch of questions without pushes. You occasionally put a post in tags and say you don't like it but don't give specific reasons.

[Persivul]

I have reason to believe ceejay may be town

Do you want to say more on this?

@tris can i interest you in joining the rce wagon?

Yeah, VOTE: RCEnigma I'll have a bit more to say in a moment.

Actually, I don't really have much more to say.

town

Why?

And...you keep on doing it.

[Persivul]

Irrel in particular, I haven't gotten anything that tells me he's town.

How about the fact that he's one of the few who's interested in actually keeping the game moving?

[Persivul]

Could have gotten something going? It was going nowhere. It was a waste to have it there. shiidaji otoh is a viable wagon and whatever happens with it, we'll get some info out of it.

Rather shii

was

a viable wagon at the time of my vote. Looks like people are waiting for the replacement. In the meantime:
VOTE: tris

[Persivul]

Pretty sure this game is actually bastard, by the way. Just a heads up to not be surprised later.

Rule 40 specifically says it isn't, so you threw that out there because...?

[Persivul]

41. There are no Cults, Survivors, Jesters, or Unjesters. The role you receive is the role and alignment you will have for the entire game

This of course would be non-bastard.

unless your role PM specifically tells you otherwise.

Reading this, OK, if it's in the game that's bastard or close enough to it.

[Persivul]

Disagree. Irrelephant’s actually my first scum read.

I'm pretty sure he's town, and I've played with him as scum before.

[Persivul]

I’ll quote Nero Cain “In my experience, gambity Boon is town Boon.”

In my experience, you gambit as scum too.

[Persivul]

you gambit as scum, too.

LOL, you beat me to it.

[Persivul]

I don't recall if it's already been pointed out, but FWIW note that this is plurality voting. Might become an important point if activity doesn't pick up.

[Persivul]

@Persivul
What do you think of Smile?

Difficult to read due to the hydra factor - probably better sorted via night actions.

[Persivul]

I just basically also win with town, so yeah, I’m town siding, just don’t screw me over, and I won’t screw you guys over, we end together.

I'm agreeing with insomnia here. If you're with town, then fully disclose your role. Otherwise, 3p is anti-town, and you're the default lynch since no one is blatant scum so far.
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Persivul]

Put a vote on him.

[Persivul]

Later in the game,

When?

[Persivul]

Honestly, I’m most truthful when I’m scum.

So you're less truthful now. Got it.

[Persivul]

LYLO? WTF, that was exactly the wrong answer.

[Persivul]

b) if you are 3p idk what your wincon and idk if 'not screwing you over' will lead to *everyone else* getting screwed over

This.

I played a game on another site in which a player claimed survivor D1. I gladiated her. She pulled some AtE and I was unliked anyway since I was a Christian on an atheist site, so they killed me. I checked back at the end of the game. I forget the details of her role, but she was a 3P and she won alone. I got a bit of schadenfreude out of that, and also learned to be wary of claims of harmless 3P.

[Persivul]

Since we can't agree on who's scum, we could, you know - lynch the claimed 3P who we're eventually gonna have to lynch anyway.

If you're not wary of Flavor and this claim - you should be.

Do you see him doing any analysis and trying to lynch scum?

[Persivul]

I could settle for a Flavor lynch but if he's really 3P my internal setup spec-ometer (which is not reliable) says killing him D1 makes the setup an uphill battle for town.

Why?

I'm not saying you're wrong, just want to understand.

As I see the gamestate: I have my personal reasons for reading you as town. Aside from that, everyone's been pretty bland. There's no strong reads either way. There's a lot of lurking and we're probably going to end up with a plurality lynch, so we won't get much info from the wagons. So, we lynch a 3P who claims that he'll need to be lynched later anyway (at LYLO, which is way suspicious - no coming back if he's lying), and give the PRs a night for actions.

[Persivul]

I think I figured out Flavor. Not precisely, but in general.
UNVOTE:

[Persivul]

How do you read Smile, Persivul? Do you agree/disagree with my recent posts about them?

I agree, and also agree with skitter in 913. Also I read their full ISO (and fuscezo's). I was giving them a bit of a pass because I think a 5-headed hydra would likely look bad/strange regardless of alignment (and was pointing PRs to them for that reason), but yeah, they're pretty bad.
VOTE: Smile

People should vote for smile or fusc, or if another wagon is desired, start it ASAP.

[Persivul]

Actually sheeping brown eyes is 90% of the reason I want fusco. I don't know why you think I wouldn't? Read undertale, she tends to just have the best reads. Its almost like she is the type of player that would win awards for her townplay. I guess some of the rest will of what I said wasn't that compelling because sheeping brown eyes is literally where I started.

Brown Eyes has all of 3 posts. You can't possibly be confident she's town at this point. Why would you sheep someone if you're not pretty sure they're town?

[Persivul]

Did you want to tell Smile that Brown Eyes' vote was a holdover from their predecessor or should I?

Holy crap I missed that. Good catch.

[Persivul]

And why would that make me scum pers?

It shows you're not paying attention to the game (a point I made on you guys earlier in the game re: baezu). TBF in this game I doubt that all the people who aren't paying attention are scum, but still, in my experience that's more likely to come from scum than from town.

[Persivul]

To be honest I didn't even plan to read day 1 at all, I only started playing because the other heads except march flaked

So read and make cases. There's almost a day left.

[Persivul]

Yeah your read on me is usually wrong so nothing new there

That might mean something if I knew who you were. Playing in an anonymous hydra but then appealing to meta is ridiculous.

[Persivul]

Persi what is your read of relly rn?

RTFT. I very recently said that he's my strongest town read (my only real town read actually).

[Persivul]

Yeah and yet that's the other 50% of relly's case on me. So why are you sheeping meta cases on people who you don't even know who are?

Viable wagons rn are you and fuscezo. I read both your ISOs and fusc's is a lot better than yours.

Like I said, if you're town, try to catch up and make a case or two. I gathered that the hydra fizzled and I feel bad for you, but just attacking me and irrel isn't helping.

[Persivul]

Have you played with relly before?

Yes, we had a pretty intense T/T game, and a little later we were S/S. My read on him is based largely on personal insight from those experiences.

[Persivul]

Ok what metrics do you use to read him? What are those insights?

That can come out later, but for now it's private. If you want votes on irrel, look elsewhere.

[Persivul]

So you're unwilling to towncase your strongest townread who you are also sheeping?

Yep.

[Persivul]

I have carried you as town so yeah I think you know how strong my townplay can be when I actually bother to play

Just tell us your fucking main if you want meta to count. The hydra's garbage anyway. I doubt you'll ever want to use it again after this shitfest.

[Persivul]

I'm back from camping. Will catch up today if possible, tomorrow at the latest. Happy birthday Skitter.

[Persivul]

Persivul, where you at?

Succinct/CJ might have a town in it and if so that player needs to step it uppppppp by a lot

Here and caught up.

No one seems to care about the NK. I see no reason for FL to have been killed due to his claim - just the opposite. Note that near end of day he made two posts scum reading Skitter.

[Persivul]

i agree about the FL kill. it surprised me, but also sort of made me happy, since i wouldn't need to worry about him anymore. (sorry FL, i still really like playing with you.)

Yeah, I'd be pushing him now if he were still alive. He was mislynchable, so it seems there's another reason for his death.

[Persivul]

Percy, since you're caught up, would you give your opinion on my reads up there? it'd be appreciated before i do my thing.

I mostly agree. I'd have fuscezu in the lynch pool, but that might be more a playstyle thing than real scumminess.

[Persivul]

VOTE: skitter

L-2

[Persivul]

Starting a tunnel on posts from the first calendar day?

[Persivul]

I will eventually for other people's sake, but I think you're already in a death tunnel. Consider:

This is exacerbated by how he referenced this progression in 48, which is evidence that he's specifically paying attention to how he looks in the game.

I offered rebuttals to charges against me in 48, and you spun it as scummy.

[Persivul]

Your initial post made no indication that you were looking for an explanation, and the second post gave no indication that you were putting any thought into your read on him.

And?

It was page 2. You're right - I wasn't putting any thought into any reads (with one mechanical exception) at that point. I rarely do.

You're apparently the type that thinks you can get good reads out of the first few pages. I'm not. You're considering my actions relative to what you would do personally, rather than to my meta.

[Persivul]

I’m on vacation but this one seems mechanically solves tbh so just let me know where to vote

Can/will you explain why you gave me the D1 IC pass? Was there more to it than what you said? I read more into it, but now I'm having second thoughts.

[Persivul]

I did that to start the game moving, to see how people would react, and because I did have a hard time sorting you. Your reaction showed me you believed I was sifting a mechanical clear, which scum would not ever believe, so then you became my strongest townread. I did not have a mechanical clear on you, though, no.

Yes, since we've been suspicious of each other ever since scumming together, I figured you were a cop or similar and had a N0 inno on me. Chara's flip made that a lot less likely.

Can you check Chara beginning of D1 and D2 for inno crumbs? I have, but not seeing anything crystal clear.

[Persivul]

Starting a tunnel on posts from the first calendar day?

I did VCA and you look bad in it.

First, the post you quote was to Bella. Why did you think it was to you?

Second, care to share the VCA? Also, what other conclusions did you come to in the VCA?

[Persivul]

Persivul is town

Persivul isn't town.

This is a little strange, but considering my role, it might be best for town if I

am

lynched today.

[Persivul]

You'll have to quote that at me, because I don't understand where that even comes up.

11 - Irrel says I'm D! IC in his eyes. Irrel and I played as S/S once and easily won, so we respect each other's scum game and tend to be suspicious of each other. I poked at him a little after that, but really I concluded (incorrectly) that he was a cop and had investigated me N0. Obviously I didn't want to explain that completely and put a target on his back, so there were posts like 990. Then, with Chara flipping cop, it was unlikely that he was also cop, so I'm no longer hesitant to talk about it. Now there's the chance that he's scum pocketing me, but considering his overall play I doubt that's the case.

p-edit: ninja'd

[Persivul]

Well now you have to explain??

I'll claim at some point today (no reason not to - you'll see), but there's wording in it that's somewhat ambiguous and I have a request for clarification in to mod.

[Persivul]

Persivul's posting never improved. I'm getting no indication whatsoever that he's legitimately attempting to sort the game, just going through the motions while everybody else plays the game. His responses to my case are also horrendous, he did nothing but cherrypick a point of mine and responded to it in two separate instances.

ceejayvinoya is a pretty stale townread. I'd like ceejay to fullclaim all relevant information about their role to confirm something, but otherwise he's mostly in my PoE list for not especially towntelling this game.

There's an aspect of mafia that you're missing. When people have roles that can conftown them, or near to it, they sometimes don't bother towntelling.

I figured ceejay was the second JK from his hammer. To me, that's the sign of someone who knows they won't be lynched due to their role.

I also know I won't be lynched today, so I'm not particularly concerned about living up to your expectations.

[Persivul]

You don't need to try to towntell in order to towntell.

Yeah, you can town tell by lynching scum and 3Ps.

[Persivul]

Which, btw, shame on you all for that skitter lynch.

suboptimal as hell

Did you notice she killed our cop?

[Persivul]

Yes, they dodged the point. A 3P poisoner was lynched, and they're casting shade on the lynch wagon. She was a nerfed SK. She killed a cop. Since when is it a bad thing to lynch a SK?

[Persivul]

Blake’s reaction to being “dayvigged” is pretty good so I’ll town BB slot again

Do you really think anyone believes dayvig posts? Particularly from you, after you've already admittedly been throwing things out in this game for reactions.

[Persivul]

Right

Well heres the thing.

Either youre not town by our prot of you, or ceejay was the nk

We are a disloyal doctor.

What makes you think I was the NK target? Blake has pointed out, and I've agreed, that I haven't obvtowned myself this game.

[Persivul]

No, ceejay is cleared by his claim. As I noted before, a good player could have concluded from the hammer that ceejay was the second JK.

[Persivul]

I think that Succinct has been in bad places, and that irre is townier than percy.

I think we can lynch down the line of

RCE
Percy
Succinct

And win

~fus

I thought this before I played color-by-numbers, but this helps.

If you want to lynch me tomorrow, you're going to have to lynch me today.

[Persivul]

I was being polite. Youre not playing mafia youre trying to stave off your lynch and blend in.

I'm trying to stave off my lynch by saying

lynch me today

?

[Persivul]

Irrel, is your Blake vote stale now?

[Persivul]

And, besides, shouldn't Percy be mechanically confirmed if Fus healed him?

But explain how the disloyal thing works for me, i'm confused

Their action, if they're telling the truth, doesn't mean much of anything.

If a town disloyal doctor targets another town, the protection fails. That tells nothing, as odds are someone else was the NK target anyway.
If a town disloyal doctor targets scum, the protection works. So, the scum would be protected against town vigs, SKs, etc. Again, you can't conclude anything from it.

[Persivul]

it heavily implies a second 3p

How so?

[Persivul]

how not?

WTF, seriously, an argument from ignorance?

It's a mini. We've had a 3P flip. Per site meta it's very unlikely that there's another.

[Persivul]

42. This game begins on Night 0. No killing actions may be taken on Night 0, but all other Night actions may take place.

[Persivul]

Yes, I can claim. I've been holding off to use myself as bait, see who jumps on my wagon.

I'm a 1X Governor and can self target. In my opinion that's town 99% of the time.

The way it's worded it seemed to me that once I governed, day would continue and another person could be lynched. So, I thought if I got run up I could prove my role without costing us a lynch. But, that's not typical, so I asked mod. I was wrong - once I govern, day is over, and there's no lynch. So, I could prove it, but that's probably not good strategy.

There's a time restriction on it, but I'm not saying what it is.

[Persivul]

Nice
I’m the vt

Yeah like I believe that. No offense (well maybe a little) but you're becoming like A50 with all the fake news reaction tests.

[Persivul]

Fair enough.

[Persivul]

For a direct correlation to how he is playing from a scum mindset, keep in mind that he has recently admitted to gambiting a wagon on himself, but has given no indication that he has legitimately gotten any reads on anybody from that gambit.

I've also admitted that I'm not being transparent with my thought processes. Yet, I'm 2 for 2 on lynches. Again, I haven't felt the need to obvtown, as I can self govern, and up until today I thought Irrel was a cop with an inno on me.

Yet all the same, people are jumping on him saying offhand once that he is okay with being lynched as a reason to call him town.

People understand that a governor who can self-target is highly likely to be town.

That isn't a reason to call him town because there is no bite behind that statement. He's posturing so that people lynch somebody else today.

Nope. Go ahead and lynch me. That will be good for me personally, as it will prove my claim.

From a scum perspective, lynching me today:
- makes me lynchable tomorrow, as I'm 1X. So, a NK doesn't need to be wasted on a weak utility town role
- it probably puts the game in evens, which generally sucks for town

[Persivul]

He hasn't been sorting.
he hasn't been looking to lynch scum.
There's no ferver behind his solving, like he doesn't even care.

I've lynched two scum.

I'm not being transparent with my thought processes, but at the end of the day, my vote is in the right place. The results speak for themselves.

[Persivul]

I believe his claim is NAI.

I really doubt that you think governors are 50/50 town/scum. It's this kind of statement that shows you're not being honest, and you have an agenda.

[Persivul]

Me pushing Blake's predecessor before Smile and skitter became bigger targets. May be the reason she came in gunning for me.

Spoiler:

So far tris is playing nothing like she did in Room Odds, in which she was town.

So far tris is playing nothing like she did in Room Odds, in which she was town.

This is accurate.

Why the change?

For some reason it seems like no one's really expressed a read on me. Does anyone want to give it a shot?

Sure - scummy side of null. Your ISO is a bunch of questions without pushes. You occasionally put a post in tags and say you don't like it but don't give specific reasons.

I have reason to believe ceejay may be town

Do you want to say more on this?

@tris can i interest you in joining the rce wagon?

Yeah, VOTE: RCEnigma I'll have a bit more to say in a moment.

Actually, I don't really have much more to say.

town

Why?

And...you keep on doing it.

Could have gotten something going? It was going nowhere. It was a waste to have it there. shiidaji otoh is a viable wagon and whatever happens with it, we'll get some info out of it.

Rather shii

was

a viable wagon at the time of my vote. Looks like people are waiting for the replacement. In the meantime:
VOTE: tris

[Persivul]

ISO the mod and check the VCs. You have years of experience - pretty sure you know how to do that.

[Persivul]

So, number 4 slot doesn't count as being on the lynch? Or is it anyone after 3?

[Persivul]

Spoiler:

VOTE COUNT

7 of 13 votes are required to lynch.

Smile (3):

insomnia, tris, Chara

Fuscezu (3):

Brown Eyes, ClearlyClarity, Smile

ClearlyClarity (2):

skitter30, Irrelephant11

tris (1):

RCEnigma

RCEnigma (1):

Fuscezu

Irrelephant11 (1):

Flavor Leaf

Flavor Leaf (1):

Persivul

Not Voting (1):

ceejayvinoya

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-05-22 12:00:00)

Only 24 hours remain until the end of the first Day. I'm sure none of you need to be reminded, but it's a plurality lynch, No Lynch if there's a tie.
Brown Eyes and ceejayvinoya have each received their second prod.

VOTE COUNT

7 of 13 votes are required to lynch.

Smile (4):

insomnia, Chara, Irrelephant11, Persivul

Fuscezu (3):

Brown Eyes, ClearlyClarity, Smile

ClearlyClarity (2):

skitter30, tris

tris (1):

RCEnigma

RCEnigma (1):

Fuscezu

Irrelephant11 (1):

Flavor Leaf

Not Voting (1):

ceejayvinoya

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-05-22 12:00:00)

Why did the game suddenly become more active when we hit Twilight? It's one of life's great mysteries.

VOTE COUNT

7 of 13 votes are required to lynch.

Smile (7):

insomnia, Chara, Irrelephant11, Persivul, tris, ClearlyClarity, RCEnigma

Irrelephant11 (2):

Flavor Leaf, Smile

Fuscezu (1):

Brown Eyes

ClearlyClarity (1):

skitter30

RCEnigma (1):

Fuscezu

Not Voting (1):

ceejayvinoya

Smile has been lynched. They were a

Mafia Voyeur

.
It's difficult to find one other person to agree on something with you, much less four others as in the case of this five-headed hydra.

It is now Night 1. For the first time, there may be kills tonight. Night will take roughly 48 hours unless I need to replace someone.
Even if you don't have an action, you can PM for a fast night. If everyone does so, the remaining time will be cut down.
For those I have prodded twice, you have until the end of the Night to avoid being replaced.

Edit: Succinct has replaced Brown Eyes; the game will resume shortly.

Fuscezu, check the VCs above and consider:

- When I got on the Smile wagon,

you

were the counter wagon. You both had 3 votes. Your wagons were equal, and I tipped the scales away from you, and onto scum. I noted that I read both your ISOs before making my decision - see 941. Yet, you revise history and misrep me by saying that I was "jumping on a sinking ship."

- In the 912 VC, tris (Blake's slot) was on Smile, then tried to defuse it by moving onto Clearly in 946, then moved back when irrel and I had pushed it to 4. That's what jumping on a sinking ship looks like.

I doubt that you and Blake are S/S, as such a bold and concerted push seems unlikely. More likely one of you is scum, one is tunneling town.

[Persivul]

I just reviewed all of D3 and while there are a number of votes on Succinct, I don't see any serious case on him.

I also read his ISO. His D2 was decent. Today he's just posted once.

Is there a case on him other than current inactivity?

[Persivul]

Firstly, if you believe there is a cop in the game with an innocent result on you, wouldn't your first instinct be to protect the cop from nightkills over the governor?

Of course. That's why I didn't say anything about my belief that irrel was a cop until the real cop flipped.

Secondly, I'm going to state for the record that I will only buy the claim when it is confirmed.

If the claim is confirmed, will your read on me change?

[Persivul]

1. Then why did you not play like town to protect the cop rather than like scum because you can protect yourself?

Irrel hasn't been killed, so...what are you going on about?

2. No.

Then why do you bring it up?

[Persivul]

Why does Irrelephant not having died yet have any impact on my question?

It shows that he wasn't playing like an important PR, and so there was no need to try to somehow protect him from the NK. Remember, my belief he was cop came from our personal background. Why would I think that someone else would pick up on it?

I bring up not believing your claim because it is unproven, yet you've already been making arguments like you should be town for it.

I'm arguing - correctly - that this role is town the vast majority of the time. People can test it if they want. Want me to vote for myself?

You're arguing - disingenuously - that such a role, even if proven, isn't AI.

[Persivul]

Ah, now the backpedal to town leader.

Do you think your slot did all it could to try to protect the night leader from NK? How about other players with lesser PRs? Why are you only pushing me for it?

Also...how would you best make use of governor with ability to self-target? I'm pretty sure it's not by playing so townie you're never in danger of being lynched.

[Persivul]

Here I am!

VOTE: Persivul

I've PM'd mod that I'm governing myself. That's my one shot, even if I'm not lynched today (losing it's a risk, but if I'm not around after a lynch and die with it in pocket, that's obviously worse). So, you guys may as well lynch me today.

[Persivul]

I doubt I'd ever override the majority vote. And I think you're saying evens where you mean odds. But my vote's not moving, and I'll be a little pissed if I used my govern for nothing.

[Persivul]

This alt was never secret.

I changed accounts because I'm changing my playstyle.

Seems pretty hypocritical.

[Persivul]

Either way, after I lynch Succint,

Lynch me today please.

[Persivul]

Either way, after I lynch Succint,

Lynch me today please.

Why?

So Blake can't continue casting shade at my claim tomorrow.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Blake

[Persivul]

Soooooo
How does that indicate an irre clear from chara N0?

How would insomnia have known they moved a cop clear before knowing there was a cop?

WHY DOES INSOMNIA THINK CHARA CLEARED IRRESLOT?

Try reading the thread instead of shouting. After Chara flipped I asked irrel if he saw a soft on a clear (I did, but wanted to see what he would say), and he made a pretty good case that he was the N0 investigation.

[Persivul]

Im just trying to untangle a clear mess.

I think your governance could have been better implemented.

I'm never going to override the majority vote. Blake was riding me and wasn't going to stop. Governor in general is usually town, and with self-targeting and considering current site meta on making things easy for towns, there's no way scum gets that role. So, I think it was a pretty good idea to prove my role (also it expired today anyway). I don't like being in evens, but there was also a chance of a blocked kill keeping us ion odds. I'm somewhat surprised that the JKs didn't target each other last night.

[Persivul]

I think RCE tracked Percy and got a no detection result.

No I was explicitly told I motion detected myself and that no other actions were taken on me.

Interesting. Need to think on this one.

[Persivul]

Pseudo-clear?

JKs don't clear unless there's only one scum, and that's unlikely. In minis with a 3P, every one that I've played was 9:3:1 except for one 10:2:1, and a number of people complained that was townsided (including town). Blake is pushing the one scum left scenario, and she requested to be jailed last night.

[Persivul]

But continue with your awful push by all means. Also Fusc is confirmed scum in ANY world of 2 remaining scum.

How do you figure that?

[Persivul]

Establishes a pair that couldn't kill but I get your point.

Yeah, they couldn't be scum together, but either one could be scum with a different partner.

[Persivul]

What were all your targets and results?

[Persivul]

This is an interesting take, considering that there was talk of jailing me before I ever mentioned anything about it.

Fair enough, but note that you didn't quote anyone when you said that so in your ISO it looks proactive.

[Persivul]

No I was explicitly told I motion detected myself and that no other actions were taken on me.

N0 Skitter - no motion
N1 MKM/Succinct - redirected and targeted self (no further motion on or by me)
N2 Tris/Blake - motion(claimed visitor)

N3 no result

Are the boldeds referring to the same night?

[Persivul]

Or no, 2006 refers to N1, correct?

[Persivul]

Just moving this up to the same page

For me night one is the first night, language barrier.

But yeah, night one for me = night 0

N0 - Percy with Irrelephant
N1 - Percy with RCEnigma
N2 - Myself with Blake
N3 - Ceejay with Blake failed

[Persivul]

I think RCE tracked Percy and got a no detection result.

With a standard bus driver, that's not how it works. The driver switches actions taken ON the two players, not actions taken BY them. So, RCE targeted a mirror and it got reflected back to himself. You didn't switch that part. RCE saw no action on himself. But, you say you took an action on him.

Looks like one of you are lying.

[Persivul]

UNVOTE:

Due to the above, and because I'm going on VLA later today and through the weekend.

[Persivul]

So the first move was made because you guys kind of talked with each other and I figured "If one's scum then they'll probably target the other" so it was more of a protection swap I guess you can call it? (Irrel - Percy)

Am I missing something? The first one was N0 - before the game started.

[Persivul]

Nope, not missing anything. Where's the VC on insomnia? I'm going on VLA shortly.

[Persivul]

probably persivul is the last scum if the game doesn't end here
the fake claim seems generated to save persivul

You really think I'd let my partner fuck up a claim like that? As I recall we were pretty well coordinated as a scum team.

[Persivul]

mod, I'm on VLA until Monday 6.17

I might be back on Sunday if weather is bad. I'm going camping and will have no connectivity.

[Persivul]

I sat around and played with my gavel.

[Persivul]

I was actually going for the masturbation humor more than accuracy.

[Persivul]

Probably scum no killed so the person who was jailed would look like scum.

[Persivul]

Thats actually not implausible.

I kind of think thats what happened.

VOTE: succinct

LMAO I didn't think anyone would buy that for even a second, but you gotta play to wincon.

Speaking of which, what's with scum ceding? Why do people mention that lately? Seems like that would be against the rules.

[Persivul]

I don’t see why Insomnia makes that fake claim unless Persivul is the partner

I warned him that bus driver would be too much to explain, but I didn't fight it because I didn't care about this game at that point. Shame though, since he was so strongly town read.

[Persivul]

BTW I'm fine with mafia thread being opened.

[Persivul]

I signed up to rerun The Purge - Everyone Gets a Gun. Based on the movie, everyone is a vig. It's a bloodbath. PM me if you'd like to pre-in. It will be a blitz, probably 5-day day phases.

[Persivul]

Yeah if insomnia had picked a simpler claim, I'm pretty sure he could have ridden it out. I guess no one checked his meta, because this was nothing like his town game.

Not sure this game was balanced. At best it's swingy. I was powerful, but goon and voyeur are nothing, vs. 2 JKs and a cop. Now, if I had been investigated by the cop, that would have made a huge difference. I really thought irrel investigated me at first, so I was kind of cruising.

[Persivul]

but only if insomnia dodged the remaining jk, and an inno or two would have been generated along the way

Insomnia presumably kills the remaining JK. There's nothing to stop it.

[Persivul]

Aha. This is why I incorrectly townread you in chain of command.

Yeah, I figured that was the case. Really though neither of these games were very good play by me. I'm on a streak of rolling scum and that always affects my scum play negatively.

[Persivul]

JK/JK/Cop were the only strong Town power roles (Visitor is useless, LyLo Vengeful is too situational, Motion Detector in a Role Madness game doesn't prove much, and Disloyal Doctor and Broken Mirror were negative utility), but a Mafia of GF/Voyeur/Goon wasn't nearly powerful enough to balance it in retrospect, especially considering the Night Start. I was considering swapping the Goon out for another weakish scum PR; I probably should have.

Yeah, IMO when there's JK who isn't X-shot (and particularly TWO such), scum should get at least one strongman kill.

Of course, we should also consider that Smile was pretty much DOA. If they survive even a day, that's a big help.

[Persivul]

pedit: why the kill on flavor leaf?

Since he was saying it might have bastard elements, I thought he might be a 3P JK who could win with town.

[Persivul]

blake and I are conftown, and insomnia has to get two mislynches in on fuscezu/rce/succinct
Maybe he does it, maybe he doesn't,

All he needs to do is remain town read, and the rest works itself out.

[Persivul]

I really didnt want u lot to kill fl - i was kinda counting on him getting a lot of flak for the extra deaths

You were done once you claimed fruit vendor. People would have eventually put together that those receiving fruit were dying.

[Persivul]

eventually someone was going to put together that everyone who got fruit died, so i felt kinda boxed-in by my role; i didn't really feel like there was much i could claim that would be 'safe' so to speak

Hadn't seen this yet. Yeah, you needed to claim something else that moved at night and hope for the best.

p-edit: yeah, especially since we already had a visitor. You were in a bad spot from the start.

[Persivul]

I wanted to go over night actions with Persivul though, because I wanted to save him and I was sure he was getting pushed that day.

Don't sacrifice yourself because a buddy is under pressure. It only takes one for the whole team to win.

But yeah, I should have been more active in the mafia thread. Frankly, the big delay in the one day phase opening took me out of this game. I probably should have replaced.

[Persivul]

funky, in the future, when RL intervenes, just take a minute and make a post saying RL has intervened and you'll be a few days late.

[Persivul]

BTW, I'm not complaining about the setup, just talking. I get pissed when a normal is unbalanced, but going into a role madness I assume it's gonna be unbalanced to some extent.