Mini Normal 2071 (Game Over!)

[skitter30]

Go for it. Prob won't be able to respond till tonight tho (i.e. after work)

[Garmr]

Go for it. Prob won't be able to respond till tonight tho (i.e. after work)

That's chill gives me time to play mhw

[Exilon]

If you want a line-by-line response i can do that, but not till i'm at a pc(much) later today

I think that you're basically using this argument with me as a way to stay engaged with the thread and to look busy - since this argument started this is basically what you've been posting about, and what your content is about.

But despite this, you're not actually doing anything about it - vote me if you think i'm scum, don't spend a week writing walls in my direction and dancing around the read.

I am doing something about it, I'm talking with you about things I find extremely relevant to get a better read on you. I've said this before too, I wouldn't lynch you right now over Egix, as I find he's more likely scum than you are, taking into account his answers. If I were scum trust me I would have changed my vote already instead of spending time discussing your mindset.

(I believe there's scum in exilon/garmr byw)

Also a lot of the things you're calling me out on a personality thing; we have very different definitions of pushing (as i went over already with hrg iirc)

See this is extremely relevant to me especially in conjunction with Urap2's insight wrt your playstyle.

Kinda hard to interact with ausuka more when she hasn't really been posting. And of course i voted ausuka cuz i think she should be pushed, why would you say i voted hef 'not because she's scummy or should be pushed'? And yeah i at least partially switched off of you since it wasn't getting traction. Thjs is scummh because ....

I also don't think it's fair to attribute the stall in the game to me given that i'm easily one of the most active players ffs.

It is also very hard to interact with someone without sending some questions or talking points their way, yet here we are

Also; contributing != attributing

[Garmr]

1.

The jump to rui

so if you think sash is town, let's vote ruirui because I don't think you or inferno are scum and if scum is complacent, I don't think my wagon is clean.

yes, and i think we live in the latter universe
except that there's scum already on the wagon

if this just like isn't happening then
VOTE: ruiruin

pedit i am

This is where it seems weird to me. Skitter is responding to URAP2 here and jumps on the Rui wagon. At this moment from her reads we see

VC 1.08

Sashaddin (5):

u r a person 2 159, Ausuka 162, bob3141 180, Exilon 360, Garmr 456

These are the people on the wagon

Bob is town too i think

I dont have a lot of scumreads honestly but i have a surprisingly large number of townreads

We can see that Town read continue on into day 2 as well. So bobs not scum there.

I think ausuka is town now

This town read continues so Ausakas not the scum on her list.

That leaves two slots
Urap2 and exil. Exil she has shown some doubt through out that point but never outright called him scum. urap2 was the wagon she was pushing.

So as town, Why would you sheep a scum reads vote urap2? Sure she was scum reading rui rui earlier but when another wagon you are scum reading jumps on you at least think about it. The entire There's literally no doubt at all in her decision while sheeping this. This isn't trying to solve the game behaviour this is just looking for a lynch.

[skitter30]

I am doing something about it, I'm talking with you about things I find extremely relevant to get a better read on you. I've said this before too, I wouldn't lynch you right now over Egix, as I find he's more likely scum than you are, taking into account his answers. If I were scum trust me I would have changed my vote already instead of spending time discussing your mindset.

Ngl i did tell garmr to vote me at least in part to see if you'd hop on; the fact that you didnt is +town imo

What do u think about ausuka btw?

[skitter30]

@garmr after work

[Garmr]

well now i'm getting spooked that you're suggesting this wagon too so

Actually just wanted to add this in. Was wrong about her not questioning it but she still literally jumped on with no hesitation and only after does she make a comment as if to cover herself.

[Exilon]

I am doing something about it, I'm talking with you about things I find extremely relevant to get a better read on you. I've said this before too, I wouldn't lynch you right now over Egix, as I find he's more likely scum than you are, taking into account his answers. If I were scum trust me I would have changed my vote already instead of spending time discussing your mindset.

Ngl i did tell garmr to vote me at least in part to see if you'd hop on; the fact that you didnt is +town imo

What do u think about ausuka btw?

I need to give both her and Bob a reread. Ausuka's interactions with Day 1 had me townleaning on her, Day 2 so far hasn't been productive in that regard.
Wrt Bob, I want to take Urap2's comment into account and check for a scum fit.

I'll try to do this in the next 24 hours if possible.

[Garmr]

i think inferno may be town

inferno i think is town

kinda think inferno v garmr is tvt

idk if inferno is tunneled really, and idk why it hsould give me pause that only one other person is scumreading you (idk if i'm willing to concede the point that he's over-scumreading you; i kinda disagree that he is)

Everypost mentioning inferno is talking about how inferno is town or defending infernos actions

Urap2 calls inferno town

why is inferno town?

it's crazy to me that you don't see how tunneled he has been and i really just don't see it coming from town.

i don't think he's tunneled, i think he has a very sensible read.
if anything *i'm* tunneled.

i kinda wanted to check why you have him as stronger town than me but eh

Immediately jumps on urap2 for ruling out inferno as a scum read on his wagon. Despite urap2 calling inferno town since post my back and forth with inferno and explaining his reasonings prior. I find it funny how skitter doesn't question Urap2 reasoning scum read on rui rui but when it comes to his town read on inferno it raises alarm bells.

This is just a observation but as town I see townies tend not to ask as many questions on mutual town reads if they have reasoning behind them and some people just get accepted. Two examples this game would be Bob and Exilon the people that town read them just accept it and haven't really questioned each other on why we town read them. But the people who scum read them tend to stand in objection.


She argues back on Urap2 reasoning to town read inferno and what I find interesting is she says "I'm curious as to why inferno is townier than me" as if she is conscious of her appearance. This also strikes accord because she doesn't question other peoples town reads of bob and joins in with bobs town. If you have been pushing some as town, why are you trying to counter someones town read on them when they explained it well.

Also she plays the this card "in this his not tunneled i'm tunneled. " This shows she is she's trying to weasel herself into the position infernos in Urap2 mind and the people who agree with urap2 reasoning.

[Ausuka]

kinda. i'm not sure that's the best path to take but i do think they need to be resolved before lylo after everything; idk if there's any way to do that in this game outside of a lynch

at the same time i don't think he's actually flipping scum but i do think the slot is going to be a distraction until it flips

couldn't you say this for literally every wagoned slot ever? you're not even voting sashaddin; when do you plan to do this?

[Ausuka]

If Sash is town then asuka was prime real estate for being scum. He switched his vote for rui in such a way that it felt scum trying to hide his move by saying he was trying to avoid a no lynch. Felt to me like a smart move from scum. He either got his sach lynch if he waited, as it was only clear it wasn't going though shortly before he hopped on to rui.

Added to that i felt he tried to over explain his action and I do feel a slight Omgus in his reaction. To what amounted to an indirect question to him about first him trying to keep a hand in both rui and sach lynch. Secondly his rather early assessment of sashs lynch.


Finally is sach was town and both urp2 and ausuka are town. Then I can't imagine why mafia simply didn't hammer sach.

if i'm scum why do I want to move to ruirui? since in this scenario sasha is town, the wagons on sasha and ruirui would be t/t. what motivation do i have to move to the ruirui wagon here? i wouldn't particularly care if we no lynched.

Bob is saying I'm omgus'ing but this is false; it's clear that I was suspicious of him before he started pushing me based on 968 and 1181.

Mafia may not have hammered Sash when he was at l-1 at the end of today because the alternative lynch was RuiRui, who we now know was a townie. What difference does it make to mafia which townie gets lynched?

[Ausuka]

i still like my ausuka vote i think

Around the time you said:

she's kinda ~null)

just before voting me. You also claimed that you were unsure where scum were. Why are you still saying you "still like" your push on me when you've never given a reason for it and you've even given indication that you didn't like your push yourself?

[Ausuka]

If you want a line-by-line response i can do that, but not till i'm at a pc(much) later today

I think that you're basically using this argument with me as a way to stay engaged with the thread and to look busy - since this argument started this is basically what you've been posting about, and what your content is about.

But despite this, you're not actually doing anything about it - vote me if you think i'm scum, don't spend a week writing walls in my direction and dancing around the read.

(I believe there's scum in exilon/garmr byw)

Also a lot of the things you're calling me out on a personality thing; we have very different definitions of pushing (as i went over already with hrg iirc)

Kinda hard to interact with ausuka more when she hasn't really been posting. And of course i voted ausuka cuz i think she should be pushed, why would you say i voted hef 'not because she's scummy or should be pushed'? And yeah i at least partially switched off of you since it wasn't getting traction. Thjs is scummh because ....

I also don't think it's fair to attribute the stall in the game to me given that i'm easily one of the most active players ffs.

you've made no attempt to interact with me: you simply parked a vote on me. I don't need to be active for you to do that. You just need to post something in the thread and when I'm here I'll respond to it.
Also, you voted me on the 12th of may. I had posted that day, the day before, and the day before that. If you actually wanted to interact with me and sort me that way you could very easily have done so.

[Detective Pikachu]

Ausuka, scum wants to look townie, not lynch town, on day 1. I'm struggling to buy that town you asks as weak of questions as you do in 1410. "why did scum do the thing?" " to look townie"

Saying why would scum do that almost always is answered by that, and I feel like you know that

[Ausuka]

VOTE: skitter30

i think her recent play has been decently scummy and i don't want to be wagoned to a claim here, so with consideration to how detective pika pika has skitter as a sr and how the wagon seems much more likely to form than if it was on bob. obviously if bob is being wagoned i'll switch back but.

[Ausuka]

Ausuka, scum wants to look townie, not lynch town, on day 1. I'm struggling to buy that town you asks as weak of questions as you do in 1410. "why did scum do the thing?" " to look townie"

Saying why would scum do that almost always is answered by that, and I feel like you know that

i think you're completely misunderstanding what i'm saying. i'm not arguing i'm town for voting ruirui. bob is saying that scum!me would be more likely to do that but the scum motivation isn't really there for that. sure, scum could do that, but so could town, and i don't think it makes sense as a reason for scumreading me.

[Detective Pikachu]

I think I just get pinged whenever someone says "if I'm scum why would i do x" so the way you worded that post really bothered me.

"Town also does that" is a fine rebuttal I guess

I kinda wish HRG had a bit more presence

[tris]

VC 2.07

Ausuka (3):

skitter30 1264, Egix 1270, bob3141 1336

skitter30 (2):

Garmr 1399, Ausuka 1414

bob3141 (1):

u r a person 2 1257

Egix96 (1):

Exilon 1043

Garmr (1):

Sashaddin 860

Not Voting:

Detective Pikachu, Inferno390 1030, High Risk Gamble 1170

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-05-17 19:00:00)

[bob3141]

Of note is the "real time" analysis he did where he kept posting before finishing his whole thought process which I thought couldn't possibly come from scum (especially new scum), but I'm very open to different interpretations of this.

Like I was discussing with skitter earlier, the open ended analysis done over time (and with little-to-no strongly held conclusions at the end) was precisely how I played my second scum game.

Obviously, my meta isn't his meta, but I don't think it's town-indicative

That is bit of logical fallacy. Just because you can do it as scum doesn't mean town can't do it. In fact your argument itself admits that its unreliable to judge me on your own meta. When you admit you do not know my meta.

The most you could actually push you argument would be that my post NAI. Since you once attempted to fake such a style as mafia. So that I could be genuine town or be from scum.

Instead you try discredit the hole thing. And say that it is evidence that im scum?

[Garmr]

Bob we have cookies on the skitter wagon.

[Exilon]

Of note is the "real time" analysis he did where he kept posting before finishing his whole thought process which I thought couldn't possibly come from scum (especially new scum), but I'm very open to different interpretations of this.

Like I was discussing with skitter earlier, the open ended analysis done over time (and with little-to-no strongly held conclusions at the end) was precisely how I played my second scum game.

Obviously, my meta isn't his meta, but I don't think it's town-indicative

That is bit of logical fallacy. Just because you can do it as scum doesn't mean town can't do it. In fact your argument itself admits that its unreliable to judge me on your own meta. When you admit you do not know my meta.

The most you could actually push you argument would be that my post NAI. Since you once attempted to fake such a style as mafia. So that I could be genuine town or be from scum.

Instead you try discredit the hole thing. And say that it is evidence that im scum?

Bob, it seems you keep skewing and recontextualizing what others are saying in order to serve your own interests. This is the second time you've done this that I've noticed right away. The first time you didn't address it again.

So to put this back into its context, saying it is NAI is precisely what he's doing here. He's not discrediting you. The post you quoted is a reply to me where I said that it was town-indicative, and he said "no, scum also do that".

Where does he even say that it is evidence you're scum??

[bob3141]

Of note is the "real time" analysis he did where he kept posting before finishing his whole thought process which I thought couldn't possibly come from scum (especially new scum), but I'm very open to different interpretations of this.

Like I was discussing with skitter earlier, the open ended analysis done over time (and with little-to-no strongly held conclusions at the end) was precisely how I played my second scum game.

Obviously, my meta isn't his meta, but

I don't think it's town-indicative

That is bit of logical fallacy. Just because you can do it as scum doesn't mean town can't do it. In fact your argument itself admits that its unreliable to judge me on your own meta. When you admit you do not know my meta.

The most you could actually push you argument would be that my post NAI. Since you once attempted to fake such a style as mafia. So that I could be genuine town or be from scum.

Instead you try discredit the hole thing. And say that it is evidence that im scum?

Bob, it seems you keep skewing and recontextualizing what others are saying in order to serve your own interests. This is the second time you've done this that I've noticed right away. The first time you didn't address it again.

So to put this back into its context, saying it is NAI is precisely what he's doing here. He's not discrediting you. The post you quoted is a reply to me where I said that it was town-indicative, and he said "no, scum also do that".

Where does he even say that it is evidence you're scum??

see the bolded bit in usp2 post. Thats not the same as saying that it doesnt indicate alignment but that says its does not indicating town. The two are massivly different. One says it is neutal and teh other has the implication that one is scum because one isnt town.

Posts 1273 he says it means im scum. Tryign to imply a im failing rather than doing my usual logical appraoch to day 2. Post 1188 he start sayign hey doenst this look liek scum me in that game.


Finally The question you seem to jump on was direct question to him. So it would be undenialable what he was driving at. Whether he thought it meant im scum, town or that its not tellign either way.

[bob3141]

Bob we have cookies on the skitter wagon.

town cookies are certainly the best. I always wondered why teh town had all these wagons. I never knew it was form of voting before

[u r a person 2]

So to put this back into its context, saying it is NAI is precisely what he's doing here. He's not discrediting you. The post you quoted is a reply to me where I said that it was town-indicative, and he said "no, scum also do that".

You're right about what I said - that scum does it, too - but let me be clear.

I think the motivations for this kind of play

-analysis without conclusion
-drawn out over time
-without wanting to discuss it before it's "finished"


all comes from scum more often than town. I AM saying I believe it to be scum-indicative.

[skitter30]

So as town, Why would you sheep a scum reads vote urap2? Sure she was scum reading rui rui earlier but when another wagon you are scum reading jumps on you at least think about it. The entire There's literally no doubt at all in her decision while sheeping this. This isn't trying to solve the game behaviour this is just looking for a lynch.

a) iirc i'm pretty sure i said shortly thereafter that the fact urap wanted it made me a bit wary. also at that stage of the game i don't inherently believe that i should stay away from a pressure wagon at all costs because a scumread is on it (esp. one where i'm townreading other people on it?). i wasn't voting her to lynch her at that point; i'd be a lot more wary if i was on a wagon that i wanted to lynched

b) i've also said more than once that i wasn't really scumreading ruirui, i was trying to pressure them and to find a place to vote, yes. i already admitted to trying to look for a place to vote because where i wanted to vote wasn't taking off. looking to place a vote (even on someone i don't scumread) != looking for a lynch, esp. at that point in the phase (relatively early day1). i think it's fallacious to argue that i was trying to lynch her at that point

well now i'm getting spooked that you're suggesting this wagon too so

Actually just wanted to add this in. Was wrong about her not questioning it but she still literally jumped on with no hesitation and only after does she make a comment as if to cover herself.

oh good you did point it out

you do realize that the post i voted ruirui in happened at *literally* the same time that urap suggested voted rui, and that i didn't even see he suggested it until a p-edit? and that in my next post (ie the one that you quoted right here), i noted that urap suggesting the wagon made me wary - literally a minute after i voted?

like it's kinda icky that you're suggesting that i made this specifically to cover myself for voting on a wagon with a faked scumread when the timestamps pretty clearly indicate that i said this literally immediately after i voted, simultaneous to urap pushing it

She argues back on Urap2 reasoning to town read inferno and what I find interesting is she says "I'm curious as to why inferno is townier than me" as if she is conscious of her appearance. This also strikes accord because she doesn't question other peoples town reads of bob and joins in with bobs town. If you have been pushing some as town, why are you trying to counter someones town read on them when they explained it well.

Also she plays the this card "in this his not tunneled i'm tunneled. " This shows she is she's trying to weasel herself into the position infernos in Urap2 mind and the people who agree with urap2 reasoning.

well it's not so much that i was questioning urap's townread on inferno so much as wondeirng why it was stronger than his townread on me - i felt that at that point i'd been sufficiently townie in ways he could read that i should have been a stronger townread; i was a little dubious that he may have been underselling the strength of the read

the townread on bob really had nothing to do with it, it was specifically that he listed inferno as being a stronger townread than me

i don't get what you're saying about the tunneled bit, sorry

was that the whole case or was there going to be more?

also why didn't you bring all of this up .... two weeks ago? have you been sitting on this the whole time?