Mini Normal 2071 (Game Over!)

[skitter30]

cby's posts were pretty nuanced for that stage of the game

(i don't think the flaking was ai)

i think hrg sincerely believes his case on me; he picked up on the fact that i was kinda looking for a place to put my vote for a lot of the day which i tought was kinda insightful, it indicates he's reading the motivation behind my posts.

The fact I posted though between you questioning them and now without calling me out for not answering tells me that they are empty questions.

this is kinda a weird thing for scum to say; i don't know if i can articulate why

VOTE: Skitter

This is where we really should be lynching today.
And I don't want to vote outside of Skitter, Bob, and Ausuka either.

I kinda feel like this stems from a playstyle clash more than anything else, but go for it

Possibly so.
I'm currently in the middle of reading 2 scum games with you in.

i also think that me calling this a playstyle clash prompting him to read some of my old games and then ultimately leading to an unvote is townie - if he's scum like why go to this effort (and it's a weird thing for scum to think to say, that they're going to read some of my old games) to unovte. why not just continue pushing me?

[skitter30]

uh not that great really
i don't really have scumreads rn

that's why i'm pushing on my nullreads

although my read on exilon has worsened during this last exchange with him .... i'm kinda weirded out that he called my post gaslighting?

[skitter30]

UNVOTE: Skitter

why don't u think i'm scum anymore?
what do u think of exilon?

Well I still a few marked up to read but you seem very one tracked minded and a lot more direct as scum. I'm sure the effort if pit in 100% but you come off as less caring to how the game state is as scum.

Here although I'm disagreeing with a lot of what your saying the posting style is very different and although I think the questions look/appear like they lack genuine attitude you're not just sitting on a read and trying to skim by.

I'm confident enough to not vote you for now.

Exilon I really like as town.

@urap like this is kinda what i was expecting him to say when i asked him why he unvoted me - this just isn't the sort of read reversal taht comes from scum ^^^

[skitter30]

a) #ISaidIFelt
What I meant is I feel you're dismissing the analysis in a way that comes across as a bit dishonest to me. At certain points you agree with the analysis I make but you still don't see the conclusions as more likely and while it's all a a bit ambiguous (in the sense is actions can be mostly seen from both perspectives it seems), your conclusion to the content is basically "well I can see town doing that, sooooooooooooo"
Which is basically the argument you bring up for me, "I can see myself making posts like that as scum, sooooooo", (which is already terrible enough on its own, re: projecting) and then you vote for me, and not him, so it all feels like unfairly biased for what is essentially you being arbitrary about it. If we're both nullreads to you, what is tilting you to be pushing me instead of him? Projection? Bias? What am I missing here?

i didn't really agree with your analysis so much as saying that i don't know if it's wrong but i don't see any compelling reason why i should believe your pov more than my own

and most of what you're drawing out i don't think is ai here so like ... why should i find your case compelling

i don't entirely understand the dichtomy you're drawing (ie why you're saying i'm being unfairly biased in voting you over him)

i don't see any reason to scumread him. i think you're trying to make him look scummy off of things that arent' ai. so i'm voting you.

His latest post confirms my interpretation and denies yours. Essentially, he was sheeping his top scumread. Town does this??

tbh yes sometimes
but yes, i agree, his sheeping does look worse in that context

To reiterate, I post a summary + analysis;
You say it's information instead of analysis, which is a content-argument;
I apply that logic to show it's not, disproving your claim, which should force you to reconsider it instead of dismissing it;
You change into an emotion-argument to keep dismissing it.

My point here isn't what is or isn't, it's how you're doing it.

i mean it was always an emotion-argument, sometimes i just actually attach words to the emotions instead of just declaring things to be bad on gut

i read it multiple times. i don't think it's really analysis beyond summary

By supporting a scum agenda I mean his actions have been harmful to town.

taht's what i thought but i wasn't sure
and my counterargument is that town do that sort of thing too - if only scum did things harmful to town the game would be remarkably easy.
you haven't shown why it's *more* likely that what he did came from scum than town

[skitter30]

ooooh it is ausuka scum, huh

VOTE: ausuka

I dunno how i missed the over-explaining

but this would also make a shit ton of sense for how I'm interpreting this gamestate rn

yeah idk i'm thinkign this might be a thing too

[skitter30]

(not the overexplaining so much as idk where scum is so i feel like i should put more of an effort into trying to firm up my read on ausuka and atm she's kinda ~null)

[skitter30]

What I find interesting is the wagons are spread out which could mean a number of things. It's quite a contrast to yesterday where their was like 2-3 wagons where everyone was.

yeah this feels like we aren't anywhere close to getting a scum lynch today

i kinda want to wagon exilon still but if i can't make that a thing for some inexplicable reason i'll try this

VOTE: ausuka

@hrg why is exilon town?

[skitter30]

Detective Pikachu replaces Lil Uzi Vert

hello!

wrt the game:
ikd the game feels weirdly stalled
sash was pusehd for most of the day yesterday (with rui and urap counterwagons) and for reasons quite beyond me rui got lynched over sash (since sash had claimed vt and rui hadn't claimed and was a lurker i felt like sash was always the correct lynch there)
i kinda think that sash is lynchbait at this point
channel inexplicably died last night (over your slot even, which is really fucking weird)

i don't know where scum is rn

[skitter30]

i feel like i have no thoughts on this game

[skitter30]

I haven't read inferno's posts but he does have a very townie avatar.

Does anyone dislike inferno for town?

i'm pretty sure inferno is town; that's one of the reads i'm actually fairly confident on

[skitter30]

Tomorrow I will read. I'd like everyone soon to post three scumreads and the lynch order they would have for those scumreads. Why would also help.

Definitely a lot of inertia in this game but we're going to break that. I believe in us townies. I believe we can be the very best, like no one ever was.

this is a surprisingly difficult question :/

atm probably somewhere around exilon/ausuka/egix; but this doesn't feel ~right~ and the fact that egix is voting ausuka makes this not super likely. i'm mildly townreading a while bunch of people for a whole bunch of reasons and i'm not sure where i'm going wrong rn

i really don't understand the townreads on exilon tbh

[skitter30]

-Sash is a policy lynch more than anything, but I think there’s a chance he flips scum here. He should have been flipped yesterday, but at this point I’d be willing to take the L so we have the info to move forward.

i actually kinda feel this too but i don't think he's flipping scum
i do think that leaving him unflipped at this point will be a distraction until he *does* flip irregardless of his alignment given yesterday and how today started

and if he's town i'd rather flip him like today than closer to lylo

[skitter30]

Tomorrow I will read. I'd like everyone soon to post three scumreads and the lynch order they would have for those scumreads. Why would also help.

Definitely a lot of inertia in this game but we're going to break that. I believe in us townies. I believe we can be the very best, like no one ever was.

Bob -> egix -> skitter

I'm aware this is my wagon but idk who else to sr outside of this. I don't think sash and bob is s/s. Also in a recent mini normal I played the scumteam voted as a block of three twice so... It's possible?

[skitter30]

Okay making some progress. I was going to try going through the thread chronologically but got a bit frustrated a few pages in with how many different people were pinging me so I think I'm switching to isos for the moment.

I don't see Exilon in any of the scum lists so far. Who currently opposes Exilon being included in the townblock?

:raises hand:

[skitter30]

This reads very slightly fake to me given I don't see why skitter takes a stance like this off a fairly NAI post

atm it felt townie to me
reading it again in retrospect it doesn't feel that townie as strongly anymore

inferno is kinda that i have a hard time seeing scum!him approach the game the way he is rn. he feels too guileless/nuanced/solve-y i think for him to be scum

[skitter30]

kinda. i'm not sure that's the best path to take but i do think they need to be resolved before lylo after everything; idk if there's any way to do that in this game outside of a lynch

at the same time i don't think he's actually flipping scum but i do think the slot is going to be a distraction until it flips

[skitter30]

i'm also reconsidering the garmr townread i had earlier btw

[skitter30]

i'm not saying we should lynch him today. i'm saying i don't want the slot in lylo

[skitter30]

PS:Skitter don't complain about sash not getting lynched when you play a big part of it by pushing both of sash's counter wagons and when I pointed out something you.

i mean i wanted him lynched at eod yesterday and tried pushing it when it was still viable, but sure

[skitter30]

Skitter walk me through, what is the basis of your scumread on exi?

his posting feels like it's ~there to be there~. i don't really feel like he really ~believes~ most of what he's saying (or, in other words, i feel like a lot his posting is iioa)

[skitter30]

Cause you have no better options at the moment should be a fairly compelling reason. Like, if everyone's a nullread to you, you have to make some concessions on what you're willing to scumread. Otherwise, you're just going to fence sit and that's guaranteed to not lynch scum. I recognize this as obvious to you so I don't know why you're not pushing more, instead of saying you're trying to.

...
that's why i'm pushing you?

i'm aware that i don't have enough scumreads, and i'm aware that i have too many nullreads; in fact, i'm pretty sure i explicitly said this was why i was pushing you, more than once

and i'm a little wary of people in my 'would lynch' group pushing other people in my 'woud lynch' group

But to jump from there to "I think you're just intently trying to paint him in scummier light" is your own bias interjecting; to use your own words, you've provided no compelling evidence for why that interpretation is more likely than me having a genuine scumread and trying to build on it.

i mean, again, most of what you're calling him out on isn't ai

so yeah, when i read a big post calling him out for nai things, i think that you're trying to paint him in a bad light. that's why i'm having trouble seeing your case being townie.

i don't think the scumread is genuine because the things you're calling him out for aren't actually scummy

Let me put it another way:
How much more likely is it that this comes from town than scum?

honestly, i don't know
i do think that town does this
i also think, now that we've clarified that he was in fact still scumreading cdb, that it is more likely to come from scum, and that you do have a point here

I'm over this. Your subjective opinion is irrelevant to what is an objective argument and you shouldn't be mixing both, but whatever.
If you don't feel the analysis is substantial, then that's valid.

ok

[skitter30]

First the main thing is a structural shift, from doing multiquotes in the early game to more doing pithy posts and then getting into 1v1 walls with exilon. Feels like she switched from presenting analysis to playing the room.

There's also a few odd repetitions -- "inferno may be town" --> "inferno is town" without a lot of development on either read as though she forgot she already said inferno town

she also repeats she's a she but doesn't call exilon out on not reading her posts immediately, even though she does come to scumread him

I don't like the 'iioa' charge in the long multi part response to 1043 and 1160 feels weird after the massive wall post in tone

even the rvs posts with the backpedal on ausuka bother me

a) i've been in a pithy posting phase these past couple of weeks. i have been switching back to walls if i felt lik a post/point needed it

b) it's not that i forgot that i'd said inferno was town so much as i'm kinda affirming the read and giving an update (albeit the update is that it hadn't changed much)

c) sorry, i'm not sure what the third paragraph (the one about exilon) is referring to at this point

d) i felt like his posts are/were iioa and that he's using that to engage with the thread

e) i think 1160 was in the same spurt of posts as the wall and once i'd finished catching up i put down the vote (ie as opposed to doing it in the same post; i don't like to vote in middle of catchups when i don't know what happened in the unread posts)

f) it wasn't really a backpedal - i thought the post was scummy, but i didn't think it was a reason to inherently townread her

[skitter30]

I don't think 1157 not striking me as a townie case on exilon is a personality trait

ok why was it not a townie case?

[skitter30]

I don't think 1157 not striking me as a townie case on exilon is a personality trait

I agreed with her that his analysis was heavy on the iioa, so i don't think that's wrong. What makes it not a townie case? I think that entire post and case is well within both of skitters ranges (town and scum)

Can you point to an example where skitter scumreads someone for an excess of iioa as town?

i can't think of an example offhand; if i remember one i'll post it

[skitter30]

that I'm voting here day 1

who wants to play "is this a townslip?"

does scum forget that we're on day 2? lol

urap is town for many reasons, but this is not one of them

[skitter30]

i still like my ausuka vote i think

[skitter30]

If you want a line-by-line response i can do that, but not till i'm at a pc(much) later today

I think that you're basically using this argument with me as a way to stay engaged with the thread and to look busy - since this argument started this is basically what you've been posting about, and what your content is about.

But despite this, you're not actually doing anything about it - vote me if you think i'm scum, don't spend a week writing walls in my direction and dancing around the read.

(I believe there's scum in exilon/garmr byw)

Also a lot of the things you're calling me out on a personality thing; we have very different definitions of pushing (as i went over already with hrg iirc)

Kinda hard to interact with ausuka more when she hasn't really been posting. And of course i voted ausuka cuz i think she should be pushed, why would you say i voted hef 'not because she's scummy or should be pushed'? And yeah i at least partially switched off of you since it wasn't getting traction. Thjs is scummh because ....

I also don't think it's fair to attribute the stall in the game to me given that i'm easily one of the most active players ffs.

[skitter30]

So wagon me

[skitter30]

Go for it. Prob won't be able to respond till tonight tho (i.e. after work)

[skitter30]

I am doing something about it, I'm talking with you about things I find extremely relevant to get a better read on you. I've said this before too, I wouldn't lynch you right now over Egix, as I find he's more likely scum than you are, taking into account his answers. If I were scum trust me I would have changed my vote already instead of spending time discussing your mindset.

Ngl i did tell garmr to vote me at least in part to see if you'd hop on; the fact that you didnt is +town imo

What do u think about ausuka btw?

[skitter30]

@garmr after work

[skitter30]

So as town, Why would you sheep a scum reads vote urap2? Sure she was scum reading rui rui earlier but when another wagon you are scum reading jumps on you at least think about it. The entire There's literally no doubt at all in her decision while sheeping this. This isn't trying to solve the game behaviour this is just looking for a lynch.

a) iirc i'm pretty sure i said shortly thereafter that the fact urap wanted it made me a bit wary. also at that stage of the game i don't inherently believe that i should stay away from a pressure wagon at all costs because a scumread is on it (esp. one where i'm townreading other people on it?). i wasn't voting her to lynch her at that point; i'd be a lot more wary if i was on a wagon that i wanted to lynched

b) i've also said more than once that i wasn't really scumreading ruirui, i was trying to pressure them and to find a place to vote, yes. i already admitted to trying to look for a place to vote because where i wanted to vote wasn't taking off. looking to place a vote (even on someone i don't scumread) != looking for a lynch, esp. at that point in the phase (relatively early day1). i think it's fallacious to argue that i was trying to lynch her at that point

well now i'm getting spooked that you're suggesting this wagon too so

Actually just wanted to add this in. Was wrong about her not questioning it but she still literally jumped on with no hesitation and only after does she make a comment as if to cover herself.

oh good you did point it out

you do realize that the post i voted ruirui in happened at *literally* the same time that urap suggested voted rui, and that i didn't even see he suggested it until a p-edit? and that in my next post (ie the one that you quoted right here), i noted that urap suggesting the wagon made me wary - literally a minute after i voted?

like it's kinda icky that you're suggesting that i made this specifically to cover myself for voting on a wagon with a faked scumread when the timestamps pretty clearly indicate that i said this literally immediately after i voted, simultaneous to urap pushing it

She argues back on Urap2 reasoning to town read inferno and what I find interesting is she says "I'm curious as to why inferno is townier than me" as if she is conscious of her appearance. This also strikes accord because she doesn't question other peoples town reads of bob and joins in with bobs town. If you have been pushing some as town, why are you trying to counter someones town read on them when they explained it well.

Also she plays the this card "in this his not tunneled i'm tunneled. " This shows she is she's trying to weasel herself into the position infernos in Urap2 mind and the people who agree with urap2 reasoning.

well it's not so much that i was questioning urap's townread on inferno so much as wondeirng why it was stronger than his townread on me - i felt that at that point i'd been sufficiently townie in ways he could read that i should have been a stronger townread; i was a little dubious that he may have been underselling the strength of the read

the townread on bob really had nothing to do with it, it was specifically that he listed inferno as being a stronger townread than me

i don't get what you're saying about the tunneled bit, sorry

was that the whole case or was there going to be more?

also why didn't you bring all of this up .... two weeks ago? have you been sitting on this the whole time?

[skitter30]

urap remind me of your ausuka read?

[skitter30]

I'll try to do this in the next 24 hours if possible.

ok please do so, it's getting close to eod

[skitter30]

kinda. i'm not sure that's the best path to take but i do think they need to be resolved before lylo after everything; idk if there's any way to do that in this game outside of a lynch

at the same time i don't think he's actually flipping scum but i do think the slot is going to be a distraction until it flips

couldn't you say this for literally every wagoned slot ever? you're not even voting sashaddin; when do you plan to do this?

i could, and have said this about other people in other games. i've never actually voted someone over this tho, so much as kinda mulled the possibility over to myself

[skitter30]

i still like my ausuka vote i think

Around the time you said:

she's kinda ~null)

just before voting me. You also claimed that you were unsure where scum were. Why are you still saying you "still like" your push on me when you've never given a reason for it and you've even given indication that you didn't like your push yourself?

cuz at this point i townread you the least
i don't entirely understand what you're pushing here?

'still like' = i've been voting you and i think it's my best vote rn, and see little reason to change

p-edit i don't know where to vote then
and i don't think she's town really

[skitter30]

If you want a line-by-line response i can do that, but not till i'm at a pc(much) later today

I think that you're basically using this argument with me as a way to stay engaged with the thread and to look busy - since this argument started this is basically what you've been posting about, and what your content is about.

But despite this, you're not actually doing anything about it - vote me if you think i'm scum, don't spend a week writing walls in my direction and dancing around the read.

(I believe there's scum in exilon/garmr byw)

Also a lot of the things you're calling me out on a personality thing; we have very different definitions of pushing (as i went over already with hrg iirc)

Kinda hard to interact with ausuka more when she hasn't really been posting. And of course i voted ausuka cuz i think she should be pushed, why would you say i voted hef 'not because she's scummy or should be pushed'? And yeah i at least partially switched off of you since it wasn't getting traction. Thjs is scummh because ....

I also don't think it's fair to attribute the stall in the game to me given that i'm easily one of the most active players ffs.

you've made no attempt to interact with me: you simply parked a vote on me. I don't need to be active for you to do that. You just need to post something in the thread and when I'm here I'll respond to it.
Also, you voted me on the 12th of may. I had posted that day, the day before, and the day before that. If you actually wanted to interact with me and sort me that way you could very easily have done so.

ok fair enough.
hi ausuka, i feel like you've been skating by this game for quite a while, and id ont' have a good sense of your read or for what you're thinking this game.
i think your stated scumreads lining up exactly with the people on your wagon is quite awful

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter30

i think her recent play has been decently scummy and i don't want to be wagoned to a claim here, so with consideration to how

detective pika pika has skitter as a sr and how the wagon seems much more likely to form than

if it was on bob. obviously if bob is being wagoned i'll switch back but.

i have thoughts on this that i want to share later i think

[skitter30]

@skitter prob egix, bob both good choices.

gamr or exilon not bad choices

im not getting on ausuka because I don't understand why he gets bussed over just pushing you

and I'm not town reading egix or bob, so I really don't want to vote there

i could vote garmr actually
i think exilon *not* voting me earlier was kinda townie

i just don't have good reads on either egix or bob
i was gut-town on bob but not really anymore and honestly i can't read his posts anymore

ausuka is a she. can you say the bit about ausuka agian, not following what you're trying to say exactly

[skitter30]

it's getting kinda close to deadline and teh game feels a bit ~stagnant~ still imo

[skitter30]

... i am voting ausuka?

[skitter30]

no that's a weak something i think? huh

[skitter30]

*not voting Garmr

cuz i can't tell if what's bothering me is a playstyle conflict or actually scummy

i do think he misrepresented me tho, but i can't tell if that's because he didn't look at the timestamps or not

also idk if garmr was (or would have been at the time i wrote 1424) viable and it's close enough to eod that i want to try to start consolidating

[skitter30]

if you get shot could that interfere with the result on inferno?

[skitter30]

let's do ausuka!

[skitter30]

if you get shot could that interfere with the result on inferno?

really depends on the number of deaths

if he's the only death what does that imply?

[skitter30]

@urap i'd vote egix too i think

[skitter30]

if you get shot could that interfere with the result on inferno?

Not that I know of. A weak hider dodges bullets and can't be roleblocked.

i always forget how weak hiders work - if you get shot you don't die, right?

i'm pretty confident that inferno is town actually

@pikachu i don't really care if garmr does it on me

[skitter30]

garmr sorry, you're claiming weak hider?

[skitter30]

can we go back to what a weak hider is

[skitter30]

well it's more that i don't understand the wiki page on hiders so i'm trying to figure out what it does

[skitter30]

ok
and that's considered 'normal'? (normal in the sense that we're playing in the normal queue? that's why the wiki page is confusing me)

[skitter30]

i'm not really doubint the claim; i'm more just confused because i thought this variant wasn't considered 'normal' and that the other variant was 'normal'

[skitter30]

Hider: target a player. You will be protected from kills, but if that player dies, you will also die. This version is essentially the inverse of babysitter, and is what will be considered the normal version of hider. if you want the most common variant of hider, use a weak hider. The variant which causes the hider to be targeted by all abilities that target the person they hide behind, and other variants, are not normal.

ok no longer confused, sorry

[skitter30]

But scum hider/scum visitor can also claim weak hider if they are expecting a tracker/watcher.

i don't think this is a thing really

[skitter30]

i actually didn't go back to check
but if he made it up he's been working on it since at least n1 and ... weak hider is a pretty ~brazen~ thing to make up as scum? he'd have to provide an inno every night or explain why he isn't dead yet and that makes a really really realy difficult gamstate for scum i think

[skitter30]

But scum hider/scum visitor can also claim weak hider if they are expecting a tracker/watcher.

i don't think this is a thing really

The worst claimed weak hider as a scum goon last year I think. It didn't work well for him but it's not an unheard of scum fakeclaim

huh
i didn' tknow that was a thing
i still don't think most scum od this really; tw is not really the average scum player

[skitter30]

am i just missing something painfully obvious:
scum can shoot garmr to get a false guilty on inferno or am i not understanding soemthing

[skitter30]

can we go back to what a weak hider is

A Weak Hider has two options:

1) Hide behind the least likely town kill, becoming unkillable for that night and confirming that person as town.*

2) Hide behind the player most likely to be scum: and make no secret that if you end up dead, that is what likely happened during the night phase. This can effectively be a guilty on a player.

Option 1 is in my opinion the best option.

I mean I made it clear I known bob is town and being trying to make it obvious since the start of day 2.

Bob is town.

Bob is town.

I was super duper ready to vote him, too.
Dang.

It's ok you have me to set you straight.

Looks at the bob votes then looks at the rui wagon yesterday.

oh wait lmao this wasn't even at daystart

[skitter30]

Hider: target a player. You will be protected from kills, but if that player dies, you will also die. This version is essentially the inverse of babysitter, and is what will be considered the normal version of hider. if you want the most common variant of hider, use a weak hider. The variant which causes the hider to be targeted by all abilities that target the person they hide behind, and other variants, are not normal.

ok no longer confused, sorry

never mind, i'm really confused again

[skitter30]

garmr why did you pick bob n1?

[skitter30]

can yo eli5 why it's correct to lynch garmr tomorrow under those conditions?

[skitter30]

ok thank you

[skitter30]

VOTE: egix

i have some more thoughts on the setup but i'm still trying to process things

[skitter30]

can i have a pass for now?

[skitter30]

i wish i had a better sense of nsg's mod meta

i don't think that ic + weak hider feel quite right

i also don't think that scum claim that here

[skitter30]

yeah setup spec was i'm kinda dubious of the claim
play-wise it feels kinda wrong for scum!him to claim that here

so idk

i'm not advocating we lynch him or anything; i'm noting my suspicions

[skitter30]

oh i forgot that was a thing that happened; i think i was dead already adn didn't pay super much attention afterwards

he claimed md on irrel iirc, and i died, but irrel knew that i visited him since i was loud

but inno-ing lynchbait seems really fucking weird to do as scum so yeah

[skitter30]

No offense but that's a pretty awful take

[skitter30]

Gamma Emerald replaces High Risk Gamble

Hey gamma, it's been a while

[skitter30]

Also, while Skitter appears more towny, she could easily be deceiving us by being scum.

It's specifically this bit, you're effectively saying you're ok with a paranoia lynch on someone you think is townie

(The fact that it's me isnt particularly relevant)

Also if peopke want to wagon me i'd prefer it happen today than friday or saturday because i can't necessarily follow along on those days and won't be able to claim if i need to

[skitter30]

I wasn't able to get to Bob yet and that's probably only happening tomorrow real time.

i know you'll prob jump on me for this but i actually like your ausuka case

[skitter30]

altho tbh that is a kinda wifomy way to respond to his claim lol, someone makes a mech claim and your first thought is what protectives should do, not whether you buy it or not?

i was thinking this too

[skitter30]

i'm kinda gut-town on gamma but i don't have a great track record reading him historically

but hrg was town tho so i'm prob just going to stick with that

[skitter30]

ah ok. i was actually trying to determine whether you had changed the writing style there and i think i settled on 'yeah probably' but didn't try to figure out exactly how, just kinda continued reading

it really changed the way i felt about it tbh

[skitter30]

VC 2.10

Egix96 (3):

Exilon 1043, u r a person 2 1455, skitter30 1497

Sashaddin (3):

Gamma Emerald 1541, Garmr 1546, bob3141 1547

Ausuka (1):

Egix 1270

skitter30 (1):

Ausuka 1414

Garmr (1):

Sashaddin 860

Not Voting:

Detective Pikachu, Inferno390 1030

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-05-18 19:00:00)

enough that when i looked at this vc i thought i liked the wagon comp of the wagon i'm on
if garmr's claim is true i'm actually really confusing where scum are because that means i'm either townreading and/or mechanically clearing everyone voting the top two wagons except for maybe exilon, which doesn't feel quite right

[skitter30]

skitter, why did your read on me go from scum to town again?

I can't remember

uh idk
the tunnel kinda got lessened over a bunch of days and at some point i realized i was townreading you
i don't think i could point to aparticular post or anything, it was a gradual process

[skitter30]

for latching on to you 'feeling weird' and getting stuck seeing your posts taht way and not getting over it for like a week

[skitter30]

i mean that's kinda it, not sure how to elaborate exactly?

your early posts felt weird, i got tunneled on that for quite a while, i thought you were scum, i eventually got untunneled and realized you didn't feel like your scumgame, i thought you were town

i'm not sure what else you're looking for

[skitter30]

sorry, just not entirely sure how to explain that better, it was kinda a mindset that changed over a period of time more than anything else

[skitter30]

Skitter wanted to lynch me exactly for info Day 1, so what's the difference here?

this isn't true; i wanted to lynch you day1 since at that point i felt like you were the least-bad option

[skitter30]

...
Did you think i was trying to lynch you for info this whole time? Because i never said that and i said something similae to the post you quoted at least four different times

[skitter30]

I do in like an abstract sense but i dont think i would actually vote someone for that reason

Like it's something i want to happen but i've never been able to actually vote someone i don't scumread for a reason like this, even if i think that's the optimal move in a theoretical sense

Idk i hope i explained that better

[skitter30]

garmr, who's scum now that it's been proven that sash was a mislynch?

[skitter30]

i'm rereading the last few pages of day2 since i wasn't really around for it.

assorted thoughts:

1. ausuka is still kinda scummy imo.

2. i'm still not sure what a weak hider does exactly

3.

Tbh the "it seems more correct to lynch sasha as claimed vt" is some of the scummy logic that made me want to lynch skitter in the first place and the dude looks like mislynchbait to me so I kinda don't care whether his wagon has momentum or not, ausuka jumping on the leading wagon doesn't make me feel any better about it either. I think there is scum in either ausuka and skitter and both are pretty ok with sasha going down.

this is always the mechanically correct play; i don't really care if you scumread me for saying so. sash should have been lynched over rui day1 always given that he claimed and rui was a lurker who was unlikely to show up in time to claim

and yes, i was ok with sash going down but i didn't really scumread him at that point (at either eod1 or eod2) and i said that numerous times as well

4.

If the target lives, yes. If the target dies he always dies.

is this true? than why isn't garmr dead ....

5. gamma's town

6.

Exilon! You may ask, why it's pretty simple. Skitter is acting to strongly about Exilon being town read and she's fighting against it. If skitter is scum and exilon is town why would she fight the lynch? It's because exilon is scum. She's had plenty of time to confirm her opinion to town collective opinion or not push it to dodge criticism about exe being town blocked. She must know she will flip soon being at the bottom of everyone's scum list with no town reads. So she's pushing Exe knowing it won't get a mislynch to make him look better when she flips. If he was town she could just shoot him during the night phase.

can we assume that i know how to distance properly, thank you?
my scumgame sucks in many ways. that is not one of them

What do you think about the fact that skitter has a high amount of scum reads on skitter yet a wagon hasn't formed on her?

people perceive me as hard to lynch/mislynch

I think no one wants to mislynch the top poster, which suggests people are over-valuing activity as being alignment indicative.

it's ai for me

Basically in that scenario skitter and sash are going to lynched and resigned to their fates. Skitter is prepping the best possible position for you as scum to reach the end game. Skitters basically over done it through and botched up. That's the basic version of post 1669.

again, i distance a lot better than that, thank you

7.

sorry urap but your time is up. we lynch you d3.

uhhhhhh why?

8.

I'd say it's Garmr, Bob and one of Ausuka or Skitter. Because scum has to have a girl, right?

i think this is kinda sexist, just saying

[skitter30]

because i wanted to say that i thought his statement was sexist in case he was still reading

[skitter30]

i don't really believe that garmr/bob are masons; not in a game this size with an ic
i also don't know if i believe that scum!bob goes along with a mason gambit as s/s

[skitter30]

eh maybe there's a few things pointing to this to be legit; i'll think about it tomorrow

pedit i'd be shocked if town's power amounted to 2masons + ic in a game this size

[skitter30]

I'm an odd night neapolitan. On n1 I got hrg as vt.

I thought with weak hider, that this setup had a theme of 3 clearing prs and maybe a scum one. But with 3 conf from gamestart my role seems really weird.

Bob, if this is a lie please say so.

@skitter: the urap line was just a joke.

Uhhhhhh i'm even-night detective

(I checked ausuka last night, she has not tried to kill anyone)

I caught that you were softing yesterday, which is why i very randomly and abruptly switched my vote from ausuka to egix and wouldn't say why @detective pikachu

From my pov:

1. Scum nea is about 6000% more likely than town nea
2. Scum probably doesn't check their partner so ausuka's either lying about who they checked or hrg is not aligned with ausuka
3. There's at least one, if not two, scum in peopke who havent claimed (exilon, egix, urap), with egix being the most likely imo

[skitter30]

@garmr: yeah, weak hider didnt fit my understanding of what the setup would look like *at all* which is why the claim confused me - i was half-expecting a vigi, since it's a miller of sorts to me, but weak + detective is just ????

@exi:
A) i don't crumb usually, i forget to do so most of the time
B) why did u ask me this (and not, say, ausuka who apparently didnt crumb an inno)?

@exilon: what are you thinking of urap and gamma rn?

[skitter30]

middle question was to egix the last one was to you

[skitter30]

I get names with a lot of similar letters in them mixed-up sometimes (e, i, and x), sorry, i'm def not trying to do it on purpose

[skitter30]

I think scum are getting screwed here poe-wise (from everyone not the ic or masons there's 5 slots to hold 3 scum) and prob should have killed the ic n1. 4 vts have died so there basically has to be at least 2 scum in the unclaimed, with either ausuka as the last or 3 scum in 4 unclaimed

I'll look at channel's reads again later when i have a chance, there had to have been a compelling reason for them to kill him

VOTE: ausuka

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:
Eh that's l-1, don't want to guve an opportunity for a self-hammer

[skitter30]

I want gamma + urap to say things before the day ends because from my pov there's only not scum in that group if both {egix/exilon} are town

[skitter30]

And I haven't had an opportunity yet to look back through the game really. My first post was at like half eleven when I was really tired and the rest have been on mobile.

Unsure what to make of skitter's claim. Why did you target me? If you got a guilty it didn't matter coz you were gonna lynch me anyway.

Targeted u cuz i thought u wre scum. If u notice, i didnt actually vote you until *after* the claim - i wasn't sure where to vote at daystart or if i wanted to push u or not

Also i guess now the scum who does the nk will be chosen arounnd my reads; i was trying to figure out who did the nks n1 and n2 but didnt really feel like one person was substantially more likely to perform the kill than other people

[skitter30]

VOTE: egix

I buy ausuka claim

Busy until about noon pst

Oh i am very interested in this

[skitter30]

It doesn't make sense from a balance perspective at all
(Well, not at all from my pov, and it should be at least straining credulity for everyone else)

She wasn't trreating gamma's slot as town, she should have crumbed the inno, she just hasn't been playing townie, and if she's town there's 3 scum in 4 vt claims / unclaimeds (i'm assuming vt) which is ?

[skitter30]

Can you talk me through the balance problems behind the claims as presented?

I'll go look at the rest later when not on mobile

Egix has been scummy independent of claims all game but we can't get a wagon on him. Probably scum regardless

If all claims are true and town we can have 4 clears day2 and 5 day 3.

I mean, does this sound reasonable to you?

[skitter30]

also am I supposed to claim right now? honest question

Given what's claimed u might as well

[skitter30]

Vt except for the bit where i was really confused by the hider claim; there were a couple of places i did similar 'softs' to what ausuka did (ie strongly indicating i wanted to claim before getting lynched)

Other than that vt; i mostly don't believe in playing different as a pr

[skitter30]

If all claims are true and town we can have 4 clears day2 and 5 day 3.

I mean, does this sound reasonable to you?

so 13 player start, by day 3
1 clear immediately (IC)
2 clears from masons
1 clear w/ potential for false guilty from neapolitan on d2
1 Low chance (1/8 or 2/8 if scum spreads their kills over two nights) of a guilty from detective

so yes, 5 by d3 is possible, but it's a dramatically more likely that it would be 4 by d3, and possible that it would be 3 by d3 and a false guilty

that's not feeling outrageous from my perspective, but like I said, it's not my area of expertise

sorry, i meant 5 clears day4, (ie one n1 and one n3); i'm not getting clears n2; at best i can get a soft-guilty around the strength of a tracker-guilty (although in this setup given that there does not seem vig it would be slightly stronger i think)

once there's one scum alive i can get real clears

but i think 4 potential clears day2 is kinda ridiculous and i'm having a hard time believing that the reviewers would be cool with that

[skitter30]

One thing that never felt right with me was skitter pushing teh lynch rui yet ending up on sach lynch after it had died. My gut instinct of skitters vote record is one of avoiding teh lynchs to look towny.

Also it never felt right when skitter said bobs town.

again, for the 4000th time, it's always mechanically better to lynch a vt claim than someone who didn't claim (and given the lurking probably wouldn't). that's the main reason i was on sash day1 - i didn't think he was scum

and you just felt like newtown

[skitter30]

@pikachu remember that i'm only even-night (ie can't check anyone till n4)
i think a detective is closer in strength to a tracker than a motion detector actually

also i'm rethinking the urap townread; don't like how sold he is on ausuka!town

i'm assuming that bob + garmr are real and ausuka isn't scum with gamma. so to me there are at most 1 scum in {ausuka/gamma} - very much probably ausuka, and 2 scum in {urap/egix/exilon}

i do think that egix is the most likely scum in that group. i'm undecided between urap and exilon but i'm tending towards town!exilon rn

[skitter30]

because i don't think scum!ausuka gives her partner a fake-clear like this

[skitter30]

1 scum in {ausuka/gamma} - very much probably ausuka

I mean, there's no way for it to be gamma and not ausuka, right? Did you think this through?

right. they're either s/s or ausuka scum/gamma town. or t/t

t/t and all the claims being true mean that it's exactly you/exilon/egix so
i don't think that's particularly likely. i think that the most likely universe is ausuka scum/gamma town

do u believe my claim? do u think i'm scum here?

[skitter30]

ok
why?

[skitter30]

why is your townread on ausuka so strong?

what is it based on exactly?

why do you think bob/garmr are more likely lying than one of {me/ausuka}?

[skitter30]

@ urap:

1. i would like to hear those reasons for townreading ausuka, yes - from my pov she's pretty likely scum and the fact that you've been defending her is :/
i also wonder if you *would* be defending her this strongly if you would be partners with her; i feel like ur more self-aware than that and prob wouldn't

2. balance-wise i think that ic + masons + odd night nea + even night detective is ridiculous, no matter what scum have (prob. some sort of roleblocker if this was the town line-up i'd guess? idk). even if you think i'm lying - ic + masons + odd night nea is still ridiculous, just slightly less so. setup spec is *not* your forte (cough mini 2075 where you lynched the loyal neighborizer ...), and if you don't beleive me cuz you don't trust my alignment, listen to pikachu, who thinks ausuka's claim is the weakest.
in contrast, ic + mason (+ even night detective) makes some amount of sense with scum odd-night nea - scum can use it to the find the masons or ic (or me)
(imo i think it's still slightly scumsided but it's like within the realm of normalcy)

3. i'm p. sure the masons claims are real - there's * a lot* of subtle things throughout the game pointing in that direction (like all the crumbs garmr pointed out; all the times that bob sheeped garmr or they voted together and/or agreed with each other, like exilon pointed out, etc). the sum total of all these does not look like scumpartners imo (garmr would have had to have started planting a mason claim in literally his first post)

and nobody has pointed this out: even if they are scum - ic + odd night nea + even night detective is ..... never enough power for town in a 3:10 game, and the only person who hasn't claimed is gamma but if we live in this world he has to be a vt because of ausuka's result

the *only* universe where this makes any sort of sense balance-wise or play-wise is if we're living in 11:2 and bob/garmr are scum buds pretending to be masons (i'm actually giving this theory some thought given the claims)
(this only even crossed my mind because i was looking at some old normal setups and saw an 11:2 game .... ausuka may have run it even actually? i might have remembered that wrong idk)

4. i don't know if i scumread you so much as ... you're very squarely in my poe rn just mechanically/logistically so i need to go back and reasses your alignment, esp. since you're defending someone that i don't think is town. playwise i *do* think this looks a lot more like town!you than scum!you (specifically idk if scum!you appeals to me to lynch bob over the fact that you think his game here looks like your game in the last game - it would draw my attention to your scumgame and you'd have to be hoping i wouldn't compare that feature of your scumgame to your play *this* game which feels a little risky coming from scum!you who had just been partnered with me)
but like ... idk where scum is so the fact taht you're in the poe means i have to try to firm up this read. there basically has to be scum in the vt claims so if you're town i need to make sure i can see that

also i don't have an explanation for switching randomly to a townread. at some point i realized you just didn't feel scummy anymore (if you want i can point to a place town!me did this; i don't think scum!me has ever done this)

5. i was on egix at eod yesterday, thank you

6. actually the more i write this am i crazy for thinking this is 11:2? it would make *a lot* of sense and explain a lot about the gamestate i think (also my reads ... i only actually scumread 2/5 people in my 5 person poe that has to contain 3 scum if we accept the mason claim)

i rambled a lot as i wrote this, sorry

[skitter30]

although claiming masons in 11:2 is kinda crazy because you *both* have to survive like i think five mislynches and if either of you get lynched it's game over; it basically turns it into a white-flag varient and you ahve to explain why neither of them died (.... although that would at least partially explain why the ic slot is still alive - it's slightly less weird if masons are alive if the ic-revealed-since-gamestatrt is also alive)

idk i might just be in conspiracy-theory land
but ic + odd night nea + even night det vs 2 scums feels the most balanced way of spreading around the power to me idk

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=77289
eh scum would need a lot more power in 11:2 i think. this was actually 9:2; i was mistaken

[skitter30]

ok, what modifier do u think scum!her has?

[skitter30]

well i think that claiming odd-night kinda parallels the fact that i'm even-night, and she did claim it before me so i'm inclined to believe the modifier

i know; i thought i remembered an 11:2 game but i was mistaken, it was 9:2, sorry

[skitter30]

No, i didnt try to dumbtell, thank you

And no, this isn't what me/urap look like as svs

[skitter30]

Also i would be *shocked* if nrg ever passed ic + 2masons as the sum total of town poeer in a 13p game

[skitter30]

No, i didnt try to dumbtell, thank you

And no, this isn't what me/urap look like as svs

I've noticed most of your defences this game is I'm not that stupid.

It annoys me a lot when people decide my actions stem from stupidity or incompetance. Idk if it's a defense so much as I'm kinda annoyed that someone would think I would fake dumbtell ... and do it badly

I see ur other post but it's the sort if thing i need a pc for - after work

[skitter30]

tbh, a lot of those vote counts become easier to read once im confirmed town

from any perspective but mine im probably a decent lynch. I'll take that one for the team if I can get a guarantee on an egix lynch tomorrow.

Actually i don't think scum says this ^^^^

[skitter30]

I don't scumread enough people really

[skitter30]

I do think Ausuka is capable of giving Gamma a fake clear.
That just makes Gamma's alignment (when based on Ausuka claim) WIFOM for me

Why do u think she might fo that

Also exilon doesn't make sense with egix i'm pretty sure

Like the possible number of svumteams is pretty small rn

[skitter30]

idk i might just be in conspiracy-theory land
but ic + odd night nea + even night det vs 2 scums feels the most balanced way of spreading around the power to me idk

what about this same idea, but also scum!egix, making it 10:3

because that's my favorite world.

I'll go back through ausuka early tomorrow morning before work

Ok, why are bob/garmr fake-claiming masons here, and not some other permutation of scum - remember this seems to have been decided in like pregame if they're doing this

And, again, ic + odd night nea + even night detective is not enough against 3 scum

[skitter30]

from my pov it's ausuka, egix, and one of {gamma/exilon}

(i don't really scumread either gamma/exilon but i scumread everyone else even less so; i think gamma is more likely but i'm not sure )

i've only kinda skimmed the last few pages but i'm *very* confident urap is town again

ok reading now

[skitter30]

Not shooting thet IC was a serious blunder.

yep

[skitter30]

yep

[skitter30]

from my pov it's ausuka, egix, and one of {gamma/exilon}

well this or {bob/garmr + one of exilon/egix/gamma} but i think that's fairly significantly unlikely

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?f=123&t=76884

^^^^ this is partly where my sense of balance for mason games comes from btw, if anyone cares to read

[skitter30]

@ garmr i actually odn' thave much to say about your vca; from your pov i can understand why i'd look scummy there and idk what scum were doing all game tbh

(i'm kinda mystified that there were no scum on the rui cw when sash/rui were tvt. although tbf that's assuming that you/bob are masons)

[skitter30]

and skitter from a setup perspective, I'm not sure how likely I think it is that detective is real over nea in this instance. nea is a stronger investigative, with an earlier check. the idea that the only investigative doesn't get a result til start of d3, most likely gets a worthless result, and then doesn't get another result until d5 seems really really weak. It's barely better than getting just the ic + masons. It's basically a named townie that can't confirm themselves in MOST instances, because you're unlikely to EVER hit the person who made the night kill.

so a pure setup spec argument here just isn't resonating

Let's lynch egix for his scummy play

i'm just going to point out that i *never* asked anyone to believe my claim was real

what i have done is explain what the poe looks like from pov

i also never claimed that it's a strong pr; odd night nea is significantly stronger than even night det; i will happily concede that

even-night nea is like the kinda of role the nrg throws in when they feel town needs * a little bit* more power but not too much, i think

i think the clears in this game for the most part dont' come from investigatives, but rather roles that are inherently town-confirming; even-night nea can't get a real clear till n4 at best

[skitter30]

@skitter can you take a look at my thought process for the world where both you and ausuka are scum?

Like, I know you'll agree with me that it wouldn't be balanced, but could you walk through why I'm right for me?

i'm reading in order, but i will when i get there

[skitter30]

I'm not even sure that the premise, that IC + odd nea + even detective vs 3 goons isn't balanced. It actually seems kind of in line with one shot FV (with multitasking to get him mislynched) + 1 shot loyal neighborizor + vig vs a goon and a follower

1 real check, 1 vig which is only somewhat pro town, and a named townie with a role that nearly ensures they get mislynched is pr

relative power doesn't feel that off between the two games

I'm also not convinced that gamr couldn't have started planning this the moment bob made his first post which was so yikes I basically gave it a too scummy to be scum read

those are different size games, with a different number of players; i think that changes how many real checks are needed; vig is also confirming because games that size don't have sk's and vigi's can only be town

ic + odd nea + even detective is not enough tpr for a 13p game i'm preeeety sure

[skitter30]

yeah the masons are real imo

[skitter30]

The thing is though that I don't really see what motivation scum!skitter would have for counterclaiming you, considering that:

- Her claimed role is not the same as yours; it's not a direct counterclaim

- It's not MyLo/LyLo yet so scum!skitter can't yet win the game by winning a claim duel with you.

Not only that, but I find it implausible for there to be that many potential clears at this stage (IC + 2 Masons + Town Neapol + VT checked by Neapol) as that's far too townsided imo. (Scum achieving two mislynches but getting borked out of a win because they missed the PRs... doesn't seem like good balance philosophy at all to me.)

a) you agreeing with me is pinging me

b) i didn't really directly cc so much as express my incredulity that her role is town. i think she probably is a nea, just a scum one

[skitter30]

Her role not counterclaiming me does NOT in any way make her townier. In fact I think that it makes her scummier! At the time of this claim the masons were under a lot of doubt - I think that it's reasonable to say that, after the lynch on me went through, skitter could go after the claims in Mylo. Although ic + even night detective is not enough town power I think that, if she claimed full detective (quite easy to justify, "I investigated cdb n1 so i said i was even-night, that way scum wouldn't kill me n3 after we lynched scum aus") and maybe got a scumbuddy to claim tpr (although we massclaimed and they went with VT, I do think it's possible that either skitter missed this or thought exilon was towny enough that he could get away with retracting a vt claim; i have actually seen town do something like that once.)

i don't understand why claiming makes me scummier

[skitter30]

The egix line is super stretchy. Egix doesn't make it to endgame because he's compromise bait. I'm pretty sure that nobody was really townreading that slot, and it seems very likely that at some point he would get lynched.

For example, Egix is a strong lynch candidate right now,

and I very strongly believe that he would still be so if it weren't for that case. What on earth are you trying to imply here? Egix is a suicidal goon and that's why he can't make it to endgame?

ngl the fact that you're aware of this makes me think you think he's a good bussing candidate for rn

[skitter30]

bob, again, i'm a she

[skitter30]

Ausuka + Gamma + Egix
Ausuka + Gamma + Exilon

also part of scum's problem here is that ausuka gave a clear on gamma

so my poe is a little bit different but i was kinda running through this in my head and i settled on the above; i don't think the game is mechanically solved from my poe? or if it is i haven't gone through all the options; my poe is also based on reads, not just mechanics

i'm going to assume that dp + bob/garmr are town
i know i'm town
if ausuka is town gamma must be also (this is the other contstraint that scum added to the mix)
(they can be svs, scum!ausuka v town!gamma, tvt)


that leaves me with:
gamma + ausuka + egix
gamma + ausuka + exilon
gamma + ausuka + urap

ausuka + egix + exilon
ausuka + urap + exilon

egix + exilon + urap

and i think that's everything from my poe?

if i remove the ones with urap i'm just left with 3 options so if i assume bob/garmr are masons ausuka's actually confscum to me

i guess i should have realized that already but i hadn't explicitly gone thru the math yet

so it's either: ausuka + gamma + {egix/exilon} or ausuka + egix + exilon
from my pov givne the givens ausuka is confscum; we have one extra mislynch so lynching through {gamma + egix + exilon} wins the game

[skitter30]

That doesn't account for the possibility that you are lynched. I know that the pool contains four. Let me find the truth tonight and you can lynch me d4. If we lynch scum Egix today that's auto.

Det, garmr, bob and gamma replacement you four at least should listen, they can't get the lynch without you.

uhhhh did gamma get replaced?

[skitter30]

IC + Masons vs 3 goons would be somewhat similar to 10p mountainous with 3 goons without the drawback of playing days with even numbers, and with the added benefit of having a higher town:scum ratio (meaning harder for scum to derail lynches, and also giving town an extra 2 lynches)

Mountainous ev rates can be found here

It looks to me like adding an innocent child at higher slots (8:3, 9:2, etc) adds little to no expected value to town's winrate

adding 2 masons at lower slot numbers (7p, 5v2) increases town win rates significantly, but given how they are expecting the games to play out and by my own intuition, the value of masons to town ev should decrease as player count increases.

So I think that means it's not balanced at ic + masons vs goons

i actually have no idea; this isn't really how i think about balance; i don't do it in terms of math or ev, it's a lot more gut-based, or comparing a given setup to things i've seen before and how i expect games to play out

like the starting assumpting that this is similar to 10p mountainous with three goons is strange to me, why would we not compare this to 10:3 mountainous instead of 7:3 mountanous; where do you even see 7:3 mountainous on that page?

but yeah i don't think that ic + masons v 3 goons is balanced

[skitter30]

5x vt
1x on nea
1x en det
2x masons
1x ic

1x goon
1x rolecop
1x roleblocker

uh are you trying to argue that both me *and* you are town?

[skitter30]

yay caught up

[skitter30]

also
@tris i'm going to be sem-v/la through monday because of the holiday weekend

[skitter30]

VOTE: ausuka

l-2 btw

[skitter30]

Oh ffs

[skitter30]

The thing is though that I don't really see what motivation scum!skitter would have for counterclaiming you, considering that:

- Her claimed role is not the same as yours; it's not a direct counterclaim

- It's not MyLo/LyLo yet so scum!skitter can't yet win the game by winning a claim duel with you.

Not only that, but I find it implausible for there to be that many potential clears at this stage (IC + 2 Masons + Town Neapol + VT checked by Neapol) as that's far too townsided imo. (Scum achieving two mislynches but getting borked out of a win because they missed the PRs... doesn't seem like good balance philosophy at all to me.)

a) you agreeing with me is pinging me

b) i didn't really directly cc so much as express my incredulity that her role is town. i think she probably is a nea, just a scum one

a) You don't think that scum!me would try to downplay your claim though?

b) Do you think that you'd have been able to "express your incredulity" (as you put it) without hardclaiming?

a) i think that you're probably scum and that if you are, you need to distance from ausuka rn
b) eh fair enough

[skitter30]

Ive come to conclusion that the reason the day one sach lynch failed was simply because mafia either had 2 poeple on it or simply did not want to expose themselves hammering.

In addition to posts between urp2 and exilion to me looking very much like mafia distancing themselves from each other

Plus my original day 2 logic that one of urp2, ausuka and sach had to be scum. Sach is confirmed town and I belive ausuka to be town.

VOTE: urp2 [/urp2]

My money is on exilion, urp2 and skitter << just for when its over to see how close i was

a) i'd bet on this group containing at *most* one scum
b) i highly doubt i'm voting urap in the near future

[skitter30]

hey sky!
catching up, so i ddin't see whether this happened yet - did you claim (ie confirm ausuka's result on you?)

[skitter30]

That doesn't account for the possibility that you are lynched. I know that the pool contains four. Let me find the truth tonight and you can lynch me d4. If we lynch scum Egix today that's auto.

Det, garmr, bob and gamma replacement you four at least should listen, they can't get the lynch without you.

uhhhh did gamma get replaced?

ausuka how did you know that gamma was replacing?

[skitter30]

then claim first before i answer please

[skitter30]

then claim first before i answer please

sorry did you disappear or ...?

[skitter30]

ooooh ok this is spicy
wait who's the other person with modifiers .... me + ?

[skitter30]

scum blundered by never hitting a pr with nk, and choosing not to kill ic

which is why we're in a great position after a couple mislynches

well and the fact that ausuka claimed a vt result on gamma

is she not a nea then? or does informed return as vt?
also this makes more sense wrt balance imo

[skitter30]

well ausuka claimed odd night; i'm even night so ....

[skitter30]

yeah idk i'm confused a bit, let's wait for tris

[skitter30]

my *guess* is that you return as vt becuase wtf would she make this up as scum

[skitter30]

yeah that's basically kinda where i'm circling back to but why does scum!sky implicate herself in this here? just claim vt and be done with it?

[skitter30]

yeah basically
unless ausuka is town and scum is claiming vt? so i can see scum!sky doing this to try to semi-clear ausuka maybe? not sure this is in her scumrange tho?

[skitter30]

i'm not even sure what kind of modifier dp can even have here? unless the masons are like encryptor-mason or something? idk i'm out of ideas

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

l-1 i think; want to make sure none of the clears have a modifer

[skitter30]

yeah basically
unless ausuka is town and scum is claiming vt? so i can see scum!sky doing this to try to semi-clear ausuka maybe? not sure this is in her scumrange tho?

not sure what you're saying here but

if dp doesn't have a modifier
and neither bob or garmr haven't claimed a modifier
and egix, me, exilong have claimed vt with no modifier

than for sky to be telling the truth, you and ausuka must be town

and that's not possible in a world where bob and garmr are both town because there are 3 scum left and I am town

thus, either sky is lying, or bob and garmr are scum

and that's not a hard call to make fmpov

well i'm not playing from your pov, from my pov it's possible (well up until the point where it was determined that ausuka would have had a not-vanilla result on sky's role) that ausuka is town, i'm town, and scum is lying about the modifier, yielding i guess exactly 3 scum in {you/exilon/egix/sky} if masons are true

[skitter30]

actually nm i'm not even sure i'm thinking about this right

[skitter30]

i think simplest explanation is ausuka + sky + one of {egix/exilon}, probably exilon

but why claim a vt result on your partner ... ????????
and we're just assuming sky made up {two town modifiers} out of whole cloth?

[skitter30]

i'm also kinda confused that scum!sky doesn't know about all of this by reading the scum pt before?

[skitter30]

you asked her to claim, and in an attempt to pocket you and keep ausuka alive, she claimed that 2 town had modifiers (which would make both you and ausuka town)

yeah this is what i was thinking kinda? i guess? makes the most sense i think?

[skitter30]

I mean from your piv she's just scum, she made up a result on you

I want to wait for everyone to definitively claim modifiers but i think we just lynch ausuka here

[skitter30]

She isnt confscum because of the modifer thing but because she made up a role

[skitter30]

She isnt confscum because of the modifer thing but because she made up a role

*made up a result

Also just going to point out that i pushed ausuka waaaaaaay before it was cool

[skitter30]

I mean from your pov i could be the scum with the modifier

I thinj this is prob a real role (if sky's scum i think the role is basically real, but some of the details have been modified); this feels like something mastina would suggest - she made a similar suggestion in the game design pt of my normal that sky and urap were both in

[skitter30]

Also urap did u just win approx 98 towngames over the weekend or?

[skitter30]

oh wait is that you?

huh

gg everyone

thansk tris for modding!

[skitter30]

yeah i was just like ... wait a second that doesn't make sense lol