Mini Normal 2071 (Game Over!)

[Detective Pikachu]

I'm pretty sure scum is on the leading wagon. OR scum is on the other wagons. OR scum is not voting. Or scum isn't voting. Or there is no scum! Wait, no, that last one doesn't work at all

Anything interesting I should know? I somehow didn't even know I was IC before taking the slot lol

[Detective Pikachu]

This is true. I am hoping to be able to properly focus on the game on Monday, in the mean time I'm mostly hoping to see who people will suggest we lynch to someone with a completely fresh perspective that has not (and will not, until Monday) read the game

[Detective Pikachu]

Why? Is bob your uncle?

[Detective Pikachu]

I haven't read inferno's posts but he does have a very townie avatar.

Does anyone dislike inferno for town?

[Detective Pikachu]

Inferno what do you think? Is there a chance you are an evil twin? Or that I am your evil twin? Or that you are a Ditto only pretending to be a pikachu? Or that I am a ditto only pretending to be a pikachu? Or that we're both dittos pretending to be pikachus? How do you respond to bob's questioning of your towniness as a pikachu-avatar having account?

[Detective Pikachu]

Tomorrow I will read. I'd like everyone soon to post three scumreads and the lynch order they would have for those scumreads. Why would also help.

Definitely a lot of inertia in this game but we're going to break that. I believe in us townies. I believe we can be the very best, like no one ever was.

[Detective Pikachu]

Okay making some progress. I was going to try going through the thread chronologically but got a bit frustrated a few pages in with how many different people were pinging me so I think I'm switching to isos for the moment.

I don't see Exilon in any of the scum lists so far. Who currently opposes Exilon being included in the townblock?

[Detective Pikachu]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Exilon
I’m off-put by the tone here. Seems weird.
Skitter feels pushy
Sash feels reachy
Egix is NAI I think

egix partner

72 comes from town I think.

Like it actually looks scummy af but I think it actually reads townie from some new players.

so then here's where we're at, order not important

town:
Garmr (unless scum with exilon)
Lil Uzi vert
Ausuka
Urap
Skitter
Egix
Inferno
Bob

not town
exilon
ruirui
cby
Channel
Sashadin

Even speaking as someone who thinks the RuiRui wagon is the best one currently available, I really like your thinking here. Well, most of it. I agree that a lack of townreads on Sash would normally be a good indicator but Sash has done pretty much nothing so far, so not really anything for scum to feel like they need to townread yet.

This feels like a pocket attempt

town:
Garmr (unless scum with exilon)
Lil Uzi vert
Ausuka
Urap
Skitter
Egix
Inferno
Bob
Channel

not town
exilon
ruirui
cby
Sashadin

dark green

= conf!town

light green

= town read

red

= probably scum

Please let me know if I got your alignment wrong. Thanks!

Sashaddin (5)

:

u r a person 2 159

,

Ausuka 162

,

bob3141 180

,

Exilon 360

,

Garmr 456

u r a person 2 (4)

:

Inferno390 79

,

skitter30 398

,

RuiRui 484

,

Sashaddin 501

RuiRui (2)

:

ChannelDelibird 174

,

Egix96 233

Exilon (1)

:

High Risk Gamble 24

Not Voting: Lil Uzi Vert 538

I don't think I'm settling on a read for urap this rl day, but I don't think he's today's lynch rn

I don't like 42 but 75 seemed slightly townie

I'm not really in love with the reads lists in 343 and 418 and I need to decide if the progression to the list in 855 are due to anything other than his two previously list scureads flipping town.

Need to reread what moved Exilon from leanscum to leantown

[Detective Pikachu]

I have the post I was working on when I did chronological but I don't know how much I'm committing to those early reads but I guess I'll post it here

I'm slightly worried that I will end up shading slots I later end up townreading but hey, I'm IC so I guess I don't need to be concerned with consistency

Spoiler:

1. Exilon town
2. Garmr town according to my role pm
3. RuiRui could be town
4. cbynumber probs town
5. Lil Uzi Vertpopsofctown confirmed town
6. Ausuka i would say town
7. u r a person 2 and u can be a townie too
8. skitter30 town
9. Egix96 I'm getting to lazy town
10. ChannelDelibird town
11. Inferno390 town
12. bob3141 is town
13. Sashaddin that leaves you


VOTE: Sashaddin

Hey all!

Hi luv! I think its been a while since i played with you!

@mod: regular vla fridays and saturdays, semi-vla this whole week. (I will def be able to post between now and friday but not necessarily regularly)

I thinj garmr's opening post probbaly(?) doesnt come from scum

VOTE: urap

I don't really see what is townie about creating a list of clearly fake reads for your OP.

VOTE: ruirui

Totally naked vote seems a bit passive for Ausuka

Can I ask what's the reasoning and why you find it scummy?

I think Skitter knows a lot more than us if he's able and willing to validate a seemingly pseudo-random list. I voted him, not you Garmr.
By the way, the spelling errors comment was totally not serious. I forgot to insert a smiley at the end.

(I'm a she btw)

I dont think scum starts the game calling literally everyone town (including people who havent even posted yet!)

Its almost too audacious and has like none of the awkardness i associate with scum in rvs; that's coming from someone who feels very comfortable posting rn

(Also its not actual readslist, he literally calls everyone some flavor of town, its pretty obviously an rvs post/segue into making his rvs vote)

This reads very slightly fake to me given I don't see why skitter takes a stance like this off a fairly NAI post

Town AGAIN? Really? Sigh...

VOTE: Ausuka

No naked votes allowed reeeeeeeee

weird

VOTE: ruirui

This is the kind of rvs post i can see scum making ^^^^

(i'm not explicitly calling her scum for this rn, but noting that it comes from scum more than town imo)

VOTE: skitter

it's literally just a naked vote and my standard entrance. why are you not explicitly calling me scum for it? if you think it comes from scum more than town, and the average player has a 1/4 chance to be scum, that's great odds on page 1. it feels as if you're afraid of entering a confrotantion so early more than anything else.

this doesn't feel very much like t/t

VOTE: Exilon
I’m off-put by the tone here. Seems weird.
Skitter feels pushy
Sash feels reachy
Egix is NAI I think

I don't really see what's weird about exilon

i think inferno may be town

why?

VOTE: UR 2
UR2 ISO

40 almost feels more naked than Ausuka. Like it’s trying to look clothed when it is.
42 is pulling associations that aren’t even there. Me saying that I think Egix’s vote is NAI, especially when it’s clearly an RVS post, may be AI for me, but it certainly does not tie me to Egix on my own.
74: How is my post redirecting anybody, and saying that Egix and I’s conversation “went nowhere” is baloney.
75 is an attempt to vaguely defend Bob for no apparent reason.I don’t like that.
76 is your basic mudslinging.
78: First is my posting style and NAI, second is not simply “shade,”. It’s laying out my thoughts and sorting people, and I am not dismissing the reads on Egix, third, where else were you expecting that conversation to go on my end and where did I ever say I was now town reading skitter. I can scumread more than two people at a time.

In other words, this is caught scum. Help me with pressure guys.

evil twin equity increasing

[Detective Pikachu]

Spoiler:

We're not yet out of rvs right

Garmr's town read on me is solid, it's 100% correct

VOTE: u r a person 2
How does one shorten this name??

Why are you asking this?
VOTE: Exilon

Because i wasn't sure if we were out of rvs and wanted to be on time to be part of it

Is that scummy?

It's like you're making sure it's ok to cast a random vote so you don't have to come up with real ~reasons~
So, yeah.

Exilon is still scum, btw. Why would he make an in depth post in 113 about how CDB's wagon is 'weird' only to go and case someone else immediately?

Exilon is still scum, btw. Why would he make an in depth post in 113 about how CDB's wagon is 'weird' only to go and case someone else immediately?

Because it was something I noticed and felt it was important to address. I also wanted to address Inferno390.
Where's the problem here exactly

The problem is you didn't address anything, aside from essentially giving a play by play on how the wagon formed.
I assume saying it's weird means you think it's scummy, right? so I would imagine that you would want to try and find scum off of it if you were town, but you don't follow up on it at all. Fair enough that you want to address inferno as well, but how does posting this help us catch scum if yo uarn't going to follow up or attempt to come to any conclusions from it?

It reads to me like you felt obliged to comment on the most recent wagon at the time.

Another thought is that everyone really needs to watch how interactions with Uzi go down. Since Uzi is IC (Innocent Child), it means that where his vote goes and what he says can have a huge impact on the game and the wagons. So anyone trying to manipulate that needs to be looked at hard.

This post really pings me as scummy.
To this point URA and Exilon look town.

Thx m8
=======================
I’m a little hesitant on the Sash wagon. It formed really fast, and I’m not entirely convinced it’s legit. I’m gonna have to go back and read it to see how it formed.

This is a town post

Hey, HRG, welcome to the game!
Any other general thoughts 8 pages in?
A general readlist?

{Asuka, CDB, URA}
{Garmr, Egix, Exlion}

{Bob's, RuiRui, Inferno}

{Sash}
{Skitter}

Skitter just really pings me with their posting and just feels like a lot of empty posting.

VOTE: RuiRui

Don't just lynch Sash because of the time. There's plenty of time to vote RuiRui up, get a claim and decide from there.
RuiRui has a lot more potential than Sash to flip scum here.

i wasn't particularly trying to vote scum there, i was trying to find somewhere to vote and most other votes didnt' feel right so i voted there

Up to page 9, what made RuiRui stand out as a vote that felt right?
I'm not expecting you to have straight up solid reads by this point but you're saying that voting majority players felt wrong but RuiRui was acceptable?

oh? do tell

show me some examples of empty-posting

(inb4 you point to this one. before u tell me this is an empty post, it isn't)

Of course I won't be pointing towards this one.
Your posting early game is full of filler questions/opinions, or just questions/opinions you don't really show interest in properly following up.
Excluding the more obvious empty posts that are blatantly in lack of... well anything.

39 Is basically a mixture of following popular opinion without actually making a stance, empty shading followed by an over explanation towards Ausuka with a comment resulting of "You may or may not be scum." You are trying to over justify your read (or what should be the read) to look like you're active hunting. The issue I have with this is you leave little no space for read progression with your reason and it's basically a halted read.
Your maybe town read of Inferno has no justification to this point other than you're trying to divert from the negative opinion Inferno has on you there. Once again, it's an empty read and the way you added it into a wall post means it's empty and just there to make you look like you're trying more.

69 First question to URA I'm in favour of, but again concerning Ausuka you give another baseless read of "You may or may not be scum." with no option for progression. It's noise to be noise. You're just trying to tred lightly at this stage to give further options.

92 Is actually a good post, but again the read on Inferno seems forced here and is an entirely empty read from a town perspective.
What experience have you got with Inferno as like I said already, it just seems that when Inferno has a negative opinion on you, you try and divert it.

110 Another empty post. Starts with worthless self meta, a town read list with no reasoning to why other than safe town reads, and worthless "new scum/town do this" opinion that again, has no progression options.

By this point, given that I'm expecting you to claim that your wall posts are the more useful posts, do you notice what's lacking like I do?
That's right, scum reads or actual pushes. Majority of your questions are generic, sit back and see how wagons fold questions.
At this stage of the game we have the following reads from you "townreads: bob, inferno, maybe garmr, maybe cdb" "Ausuka may or may not be scum."
If you or anyone feel that this kind of ISO or reads come from anything other than empty posting, then explain why I'm wrong.
Your ISO rarely gets better either, which I can go through more of your "informational" posts if needed.

it's not like i've said i have significantly more townreads than scumreads or anything

i've also, you know, repeatedly tried to wagon the one scumread that i have but that hasn't exactly taken off

and yeah the rui vote was a compromise vote (ie and not on someone i'm really scumreading), i 100% agree. it's getting close to eod and i don't really see the point of no-lynching

I don't really have anything against this post. I think if you're scum it didn't matter which lynch at this point, and it favours town view to lynch over no lynch (However, see below).
But the "repeatedly" tried to wagon the scum read of yours is actually really bad here considering you voted URA twice outside of RVS with 194 where you waited a whole 7 posts to vote back to RuiRui and 398 where you vote URA and even apologies during the time with your only push to vote URA is with, once again, empty shading and just being a voice to show you have "a read". Just posting "vote this player", or "that's a scum post" is not you genuinely believing URA as scum. Scum do this as a tactic all game, sit and call X scum to show that their voice was loud on a player that's not overly likely to be lynched early.

A) i would characterize calling how i interacted with the thread yesterday to be skimming as shade

B) what do u mean by 'wasting my vote if no one followed'?

C) no, i kinda just took note that u didnt answer it but given how u interacted with the thread yesterday i dont particularly expect u to. Like i'd be pleasantly surprised if u did, not surprised if u don't, and if u didnt at some point i's point out that you'd been ignoring me. Just cuz i didnt explicitly point out that you didnt answer doesnt mean i didnt notice that u didnt

Also my questions aren't empty. They lead somewhere useful for *me*, even if you don't see how/why and even if i dont explicitly say how/why in thread

A) I don't understand what you are posting here?

b) Your lynch wasn't happening, sitting on it with less than 24hours to go would have been worthless.

C) At what stage did I give the impression that I would ignore questions to me for you to expect me not to respond? Just because I was posting and logging on with a slower rate doesn't mean I was ignoring things in the game, so your wording here pings me really hard. This basically reads as, you forgot you asked questions because you didn't actually want answers so instead you wanted to use them for late game to shade me.

Tell me, why do you think Sash is scum here?
You seem to have wanted to test the view on Sash before putting a vote down.

859 is dreadful if town. You spent majority of yetserday calling Sash town why they were the leading wagon. Then when RuiRui looked like the promising wagon you move over to Sash and say that you think that they are both town. This is standard scum play to be off the lynch and explains the change of heart. It also doesn't match up to how you ended the day and started the day with the reads. Not to mention your vote on Sash was an obvious in favour of no lynch over lynching.
Always the better wagon was wrong, when Sash looks town. The flipped reads are just forced.

VOTE: Skitter

This is where we really should be lynching today.
And I don't want to vote outside of Skitter, Bob, and Ausuka either.

cby/HRG is an interesting slot that I also don't think is today's lynch but I'm not 100% townblocking quite yet, although I feel like so far these are the reads and impressions that most clearly mirror my own which is slightly reassuring

cby's Exi vote in 24 and 27 feels a bit meh to me, I don't really like that push and is one of the main reasons I'm not townblocking this quite yet, but actually 137 --> 202 is actually a pretty astute criticism of Exi and is probably the strongest argument against an Exi townblock I've seen going through the game so far (that some of the walls go in the route of IIoA/inconclusion and seem paired with pushes that are confusing) even though I don't think this quite makes Exi scum, I feel like the reasoning for the push here is a bit better

Literally no idea what to do with the replace out so ignoring that

not sure why HRG thinks 89 is a town post but URAP and Exi town as first impressions of the thread seems relatively reasonable to me

Main question I have with 700 is why Ausuka is a high town read

Trying to understand why RuiRui got the vote in 754 and that's probably the second main thing that has me second guessing a townblock on this slot

not entirely sure I understand why it took 200 posts from 964 to 1115 to vote skitter but that might be a temperamental thing?

anyway I think I like enough here that I'm okay with this slot going later even if I'm not locking it as town yet

[Detective Pikachu]

Well I'm just doing a few reads at a time first

The question up there still stands, how do you feel about exilon being townblocked?

[Detective Pikachu]

Skitter walk me through, what is the basis of your scumread on exi?

[Detective Pikachu]

Spoiler:

throw some quick thoughts out there

town in my eyes
Lil Uzi Vert
Garmr(that's me)
Bob
Exilon(because of something he said that may rule him out from being scum with out him knowing about it.)

maybe town deciding
Skitter (mainly for peoples reaction to her than anything she has done herself.)

Cautious of
Egix


Who I think can hang personally-
Channel
Sash

I feel like he hasn't really talked much about Egix since even though he's "cautious of" him. Also, I do not understand this Skitter read

I'm not pissed, I just didn't come here to be personally insulted

I'm not personally insulting by calling you stupid you I'm saying your action is stupid there's a big difference. Which is why I wrote "right now."

yeah just going to note down these points

1-scum have day chat (noticed that due to what I thought excellion gamble was)
2-No one has calling sash town
3-The generic response I don't know if I want to jump on the wagon. With no reason not to scum read sash or town read them.
4-Been ages with out a meaningful post
5-wagon starts to gain steam out of no where.
6-A lot of my town reads are on sash wagon including confirmed town and myself.

May be a bit premature but with all these points combined I think scum stayed silent on the sash wagon to see if it would dissolve naturally and rui rui was their planned counterwagon in their day chat.

what

Yeah I’m not buying Sash. If anything, Bob’s vote on Sash feels the most genuine of any of them.

Even more genuine than a IC?

Would like to point out the scenario here.

Inferno390

I’m off-put by the tone here. Seems weird.
Skitter feels pushy

Sash feels reachy

Finds sash reacy early on doesn't mention him latter.

I don’t like how 162 is used to throw shade in my direction while simultaneously pushing Sash.

What's odd about someone pushing 2 scum reads at the same time, he did it early? So that indicates the problem wasn't he was being scumread but being tied with sash.

Thx m8
=======================
I’m a little hesitant on the Sash wagon. It formed really fast, and I’m not entirely convinced it’s legit. I’m gonna have to go back and read it to see how it formed.

It's funny they were quite happy throwing shade at the begging at rvs but sash had done nothing to earn a town read. Through out their posts he doesn't even show a town read on sash but actively opposes the wagon.




So with that I think this is what happened. From these past events Inferno was looking to shut down the wagon but because he doesn't want to be tied up with sash he goes for the generic The wagon came in to fast and not legit sentiment that people with doubt seemed to have. He starts throwing shade on everyone (except bob which to me indicate buddying).

To me it seems like post 242 was meant to throw shade on me and for people not looked into to deeply. Which is why he included the

BUT

to fake some kind of doubt. If you noticed when he starts talking about me and with me, he drops any notion of doubt when arguing. The fact he mistakes where I placed my votes and what I talked about and when shows to me that it was quick Iso job with out much thought and written after being questioned on his throw away statement. Finally he tries to keep his point by changing the goal post instead of accepting the facts. This shows that he isn't concerned with finding out my alignment and just throwing shade. Also with this much effort to try and trying to cling to try make me look scummy you'd think town would throw a vote since he isn't pushing urap2 anymore.

The answer is simple he was chainsawing for Sash and didn't expect to have to explain his motive. Now his caught up in it.



VOTE: Inferno390

I'm up for either Inferno or Sash but I feel inferno deserves the pressure.

P:Edit still didn't vote me after struggling this hard to keep trying to throw shade.

despite my other issues with this slot this is a pretty long case that I don't completely hate, end is kinda bad with the "deserves the pressure bit" but meh

Here my ideas in case I go:

Town:

Garmr
Bob
Ruirui



Null:


URAP2

Fixed this list for you

gross post

If I’m trying to shield Sash, then why the heck did I say that a) I was okay with a Sash lynch and b) I would hammer the slot?

I really don’t appreciate the attempt to make me look as dumb as possible in order to discredit what I’m saying.
I’ll respond to the rest of this later when I have tome.

..... Are you fucking kidding me. We spent pages arguing about it I said you were partners with sash and trying to derail his wagon with out getting on the counter wagon and you fucking act like it never happened are you fucking reading the game.

Don't try and play dumb you only did said those things to cover up and a)Just because you say something, doesn't mean your doing it. It's mafia people lie and your earlier actions say different. b)Yeah after I drilled you hard enough after multiple posts, so you can preserve your image.

So this is where I'm at after the catch up fully.

URA is obvious town right now and the fact his wagon started is really bad.
I'm feel less like Sash scum with the VT claim and even though VT lynch / scum lynch isn't a bad choice day 1 I don't think Sash flips scum here.

I don't think that URA's wagon was all town either so Skitter, Inferno or RuiRui have 1-2 scum.

The current RuiRui wagon looks all town other than Skitter. Skitter is just looking for a lynch rather scum hunting and their voting patterns/reasons show this.

If it comes to it I'll vote RuiRui over Sash and URA but I think Skitter is just out right scum and it doesn't look like bussing.

VOTE: Skitter

Yeah I can agree with this.

VOTE: Skitter

Don't really have much to add other than I been feeling off about skitter for a while which is why I don't list them as town.

I don't like the fact Skitter ignored my post (663)

So if we really have to compromise on a lynch I think skitter the best one.

worth revisiting this post if garmr or skitter flips scum

like just based on this iso I can imagine a world of garmr/skitter/egix. I don't know that that is this world, but it's certainly a world I can imagine

I think there was one post here I didn't completely hate, I didn't really see a deluge of towniness, don't really wanna be non-committal on literally every slot. I guess I'd say this is more in the bottom half of my reads than lockscum tho.

[Detective Pikachu]

Spoiler:

VOTE: ruirui

This is the kind of rvs post i can see scum making ^^^^

(i'm not explicitly calling her scum for this rn, but noting that it comes from scum more than town imo)

VOTE: skitter

it's literally just a naked vote and my standard entrance. why are you not explicitly calling me scum for it? if you think it comes from scum more than town, and the average player has a 1/4 chance to be scum, that's great odds on page 1. it feels as if you're afraid of entering a confrotantion so early more than anything else.

If you think my point is so stupid explain how to me please.

Skitter says my vote comes from scum more often than town. This to me is a scumread, how could it not be? If you think someone's only post so far is more common from scum than from town, you think that person's scum. I would expect her reasoning to be used as part of a push on me. She then goes on to say, in the same post, she's not "explicitly" calling me scum for it. This I think isn't genuine, because I think that if skitter sees my post as coming from scum more often than town, she wouldn't have any hesitation to call me scum for it, right?

it's literally just a naked vote and my standard entrance. why are you not explicitly calling me scum for it? if you think it comes from scum more than town, and the average player has a 1/4 chance to be scum, that's great odds on page 1. it feels as if you're afraid of entering a confrotantion so early more than anything else.



Feels like poor reasoning and a bit forced in order to justify a vote on skitter.
The question here seems unnecessary and loaded (assumes Skitter finds Ausuka scummy, which is incorrect), especially considering that skitter's own bolded words invalidate that same question.

How on earth does the bolded invalidate my question? She's saying that she's not calling me scum in the section that you bolded; I'm asking why she's not calling me scum.

i think that post comes from scum more often than town (which is not at all the same thing as thinking you're scum)

Okay, can you please explain why they're not the same thing? Because I don't see the difference when that's my only post in the game.

UNVOTE:

ok I thought about it and I think I understand what skitter is saying now.

@Exilon: I still don't understand what about my push you don't think comes from town here.

i don't understand the skitter push. what about her posting is empty?

I don't know if I' explaining well enough here.
Garmr surviving the night makes me think he has a lot of % of flipping red, because If he is town I don't think CDB was a better kill over Garmr.

sasha are you scum after all

I don't think I have a big problem with this slot going today. A lot of these reactions just kinda feel fake to me a little bit, particularly irt skitter

still not settled yet tho

[Detective Pikachu]

pedit: sure

Spoiler: skitter

VOTE: ruirui

This is the kind of rvs post i can see scum making ^^^^

(i'm not explicitly calling her scum for this rn, but noting that it comes from scum more than town imo)

Town AGAIN? Really? Sigh...

VOTE: Ausuka

No naked votes allowed reeeeeeeee

i don't particularly like this post, the first line kinda feels like you felt the need to randomly share that you're town which feels a little ????? and meh

VOTE: ruirui

This is the kind of rvs post i can see scum making ^^^^

(i'm not explicitly calling her scum for this rn, but noting that it comes from scum more than town imo)

What do you mean by this? How come it comes from scum more?

i've noticed that scum sometimes find trouble figuring out what to say or do in rvs, and that instead of engaging with *already existing content* will sometimes pop in and make an empty vote; i find making an empty rvs vote in lieu of engaging with content that already exists to be scum-indicative, and have seen scum do this more than once. ausuka's rvs kinda looked like that to me

Why wouldn't you vote for Ausuka here instead of keeping your vote on a random person who hadn't yet posted?

idk
i usually don't switch my vote from rvs until i have a solid scumread; i don't have one rn and it didn't occur to me to switch my vote there

i think i can sort urap fairly easily which is why i put my rvs vote there

==

VOTE: ruirui

This is the kind of rvs post i can see scum making ^^^^

(i'm not explicitly calling her scum for this rn, but noting that it comes from scum more than town imo)

VOTE: skitter

it's literally just a naked vote and my standard entrance. why are you not explicitly calling me scum for it? if you think it comes from scum more than town, and the average player has a 1/4 chance to be scum, that's great odds on page 1. it feels as if you're afraid of entering a confrotantion so early more than anything else.

i don't think you're inherently scum for it, but i think that post comes from scum more often than town (which is not at all the same thing as thinking you're scum)

i don't think i've played with you much recently and i don't remember offhand what your regular rvs looks like

and i'm not afraid of entering confrontation (lol). i'm also not going to call you scum for making an rvs post that i disliked. it felt weird, so i noted it. it generated discussion (which i'm always a fan of in rvs!). do i think it's a bad post? yes. am i calling you scum and seriously pushing you for that? no.

i don't think that having an awkward entrance inherently makes you scum, it makes it something worth noting and to use to start generating discussion

==

i think inferno may be town

(I'm a she btw)

I dont think scum starts the game calling literally everyone town (including people who havent even posted yet!)

Its almost too audacious and has like none of the awkardness i associate with scum in rvs; that's coming from someone who feels very comfortable posting rn

(Also its not actual readslist, he literally calls everyone some flavor of town, its pretty obviously an rvs post/segue into making his rvs vote)

Nice to meet you too

Use to play mafia on with a few people a year ago in a forum of a browser game but the after a while there wasnt enough people to make a full game.

Unvoted, as im testing the tags as its teh first time ive played mafia on this forum. I see peopel are usign one that makes unvote is that UNVOTE: . also does it need teh name of who we where voting for

the unvote doesn't require a name, voting does

do you have any thoughts on the game? any idea wrt who may be town? scum?

(@exilon i'm a she btw)

hey exilon, do you have a read on me?

==

Also if I get the feelign mafia in there arguments would prefer to hide there arguments in group. By making it appear that thre arguments are in harmony with anotehr player that they virtue of being mafia know is town . Ive seen a few examples of that but nothing realy note worthy, just somethign givign me sligth feeling

can you show me an example of where you think this might be happening?

==

@skitter The first post I think is independently scummy. The second feels like redirect of of Egix. And the interaction between them goes no where. whole thing just feels wrong.

i don't think i'm seeing what you're seeing here; this read feels a little reach-y imo

also urap and bob probably (?) aren't partners together imo

oh wait reading more i think i'm mixing up egix and exilon; i can kinda see your thought process for egix/inferno but i don't particularly agree with it

==

inferno i think is town

==

78: First is my posting style and NAI, second is not simply “shade,”. It’s laying out my thoughts and sorting people, and I am not dismissing the reads on Egix, third, where else were you expecting that conversation to go on my end and where did I ever say I was now town reading skitter. I can scumread more than two people at a time.

so why didn't you mention skitter in your scum team?

? people can have scumreads and not teamread them (esp. early day1!)

==

Inferno you're moving a little too fast with your reads imo

ya think? recent posts are not from a town perspective

kinda disagree. don't think scum!inferno posts 89, for example
kinda think you might be scum here actually

==

This post feels weird and self aware. Coming out of a scumgame myself, this sounds like something I would say. (You know what I’m talking about Rui and Egix, the whole parroting thing.) But asa whole it doesn’t read as bad as I thought it did on first glance.

it was self-aware, i knew quite well that if i didn't put in the parenthesis people would ask why i wasn't voting there (hint: i wasn't actually scumreading her, it was a natural progression from the previous post - i showed an rvs post that i liked (garmr's) and then showed one that i didn't (ausuka's) )

If you don't lynch me first I'm sure I can appear towny

yes, and i think we live in the latter universe
except that there's scum already on the wagon

if this just like isn't happening then
VOTE: ruiruin

pedit i am

Ok; I get it; I do have one question though.
And this feels a bit like day1 deja vu but:
you once again react to a post of mine by latching more to its form rather than its content, but then you don't do much with the content itself, which I feel isn't aligned with your claimed willingness to sort people and broaden your search.
And by that I mean, what do you think of the points I raised about Egix?

sometimes to me the form/tone/timing/writing style of the post is just as important (if not more important!) than the actual content of the post. for that post the tone stood out to me

wrt to the content -

i don't know. it just kinda ~is~
i don't find much of what you said to be compelling or convincing, and like i said, a lot of it feels iioa to me. like you're summarizing his posts and trajectory more than anything else? idk.

and I get what CDB is going for here and reading him as bullheaded town but I'm not so sure right now especially considering where Egix decided to go instead (inactives).

Nvm the fact he manages to keep his SR on CDB and keep his vote on him

while at the same time quoting him for truth (in 165, as mentioned previously) which I find quite ironic.

i feel like u kinda assume that if egix didn't explicitly state a change of read on cdb (or doesn't unovte him) he's still reading him the same way and you use this to highlight the oddity of egix qft'ing cdb while at the same time scumreading him.
i'm not sure egix was still scumreading him in 165; it doesn't quite feel like a post someone usually says to a scumread

so like i don't particularly agree with this observation, because it's based on an assumption that i don't think is necessarily true

Like I'm not saying scum can't have genuine scumreads but if you're not sure of who's scummy (as Egix had stated previously), you're probably not going to give as much credit to your top suspicion's scumreads.

same with this ^^^^ i don't know if cdb is still egix's top suspicion's scumread at that point, he isn't really acting like he is really

By this point Sash's wagon starts picking up and Egix points out in176 that he doesn't see sash as scum.

iioa

205 and 206 are extreme fencesitting (still no unvote from CDB), and currently read to me as someone who is trying to set up a move to an eventual Rui wagon;

fence-sitting, sure, but i can see town making those posts too

233 is just amazing where egix follows CDB's suggestion and moves his vote over to Rui. See how his reasoning didn't actually evolve from 205 and 206?

again, this s=isn't like impossible for town to do; town do this all the time
like yes, you can look at this from a scummy angle, but it's not an inherently scummy action

347 sees Egix completely drop his SR on CDB without even a single mention to that change, or where it came from. In here, the main SRs are Rui and CBY, and suddenly Urap2 shows up as "third, I guess..."

But then Egix also drops this read on Urap2 in 503

iioa + town does this

In the eve of these great wagons, Egix changes a read on Inferno in 603; in 702 however he leaves quite explicit that RuiRui is the "closest thing to a scumread", which seems contrarian to his opinion on Inferno which at the very least had more substance to it than the reasoning he had for ruirui.

Jump forward another 200 or so posts and in 909 you get what could be an attempt to further analyse Inferno? 910 also does the same, but it's funny because it seems to me that Egix misreads Ausuka here, as Ausuka points out soon after. Egix doesn't bother following up on this.

There is some back and forth here between Egix and Inferno which isn't really accusatory in any way and is very dialogical between one or the other (see 959, and omce again I'm left to wonder if the scumread on Inferno was also dropped without real mention.

more iioa. and why does 959 imply that the scumread on inferno was dropped

In summary, Egix's reads have been made for show,

are non-commital, weak, and inconsistent between themselves.

His voting (and lack thereof) supports a scum agenda.

i still don't know if this is inherently scum-indicative really
i'm also not sure i agree with u that egix' reads ahve been made for show

so like overall i'm ehhhh about the content of this post; i don't find it very compelling. i feel like u summarize egix' iso and describe how his reads change as being scummy when i don't think it inherently is

so like idk. the content just kinda is. i can tell u put a lot of time/effort into it but like i don't agree with most of it or find it novel or an interesting approach to the game.

i do think the way you approached it looks liek the way i post as scum sometimes tho, which is why i hgihlighted that to begin with

kinda want to go here

VOTE: exilon

Not liking skitter for town so far

First the main thing is a structural shift, from doing multiquotes in the early game to more doing pithy posts and then getting into 1v1 walls with exilon. Feels like she switched from presenting analysis to playing the room.

There's also a few odd repetitions -- "inferno may be town" --> "inferno is town" without a lot of development on either read as though she forgot she already said inferno town

she also repeats she's a she but doesn't call exilon out on not reading her posts immediately, even though she does come to scumread him

I don't like the 'iioa' charge in the long multi part response to 1043 and 1160 feels weird after the massive wall post in tone

even the rvs posts with the backpedal on ausuka bother me

that being said I don't hate all her reads, but this slot is maybe below garmr for me, but I'm not sure yet. I've kinda been nudging this read for a few days in my mind and I kinda don't want to go hard on skitter without being reasonably sure which I'm not sure I am, but this is toward the bottom of my list rn

[Detective Pikachu]

Spoiler: Egix

Skitter feels pushy

Is that meant to be in a good way or a bad way?

Feeling pretty iffy about RuiRui so far. Most of her posts so far are pretty surface-level stuff ("Inferno, you're moving too fast with your reads" without really talking about what that might mean, or "well now nobody can use that for info" after the comment about reactions to LUV) without truly engaging in anyone's alignment. Need to see more evidence of desire to actively uncover the scum rather than just reacting blandly to a random post here or there.

*Reads her ISO*

I'll admit, you're not wrong there. She does feel underwhelming compared to last game so far.

What are your thoughts on Sash? I like Asuka’s breakdown of Sash’s vote on Bob.

I think Sasha's reasoning for voting bob is pretty reachy but I don't think it makes him scum. (meta reasons)

I'd like to see a bit more content from him before giving a full-fledged read.

Not so sure that inferno is town now.

Bob is town.

Yeah Bob is town here.

i think bob is town

Whatever you three are seeing, I'm not seeing it...

There is one post that strikes me as slightly townie but there are a few red flags specifically irt to a red skitter flip

37 is bad for skitter associatives
165 reads slightly fake just cause I don't get the impression you actually read the iso
I'd like to know the meta reasons mentioned in 176
when did you ever say inferno was town? I feel like I missed something in 603

1063 has a slightly townie vibe tho to me tbh

I am tempted to put this in my bottom half but maybe slightly above ausuka/garmr/skitter, the slot certainly isn't oozing towniness and there's a few concerns but I think this is not today's lynch

[Detective Pikachu]

Spoiler: Sashaddin

- I'm not touching the Inferno-Exilon feud with a ten-foot pole for now.
- Garmr and I were scum partners once, he hasn't done much but I'm getting the same vibe. I'm watching this slot.
- ChannelDelibird is surprisingly coming very townie to me. I saw a couple of people voting him while skimming the thread, but after reading his ISO I couldn't tell why. Townlean for me.
- Skitter seems town.
- Bob seems nervous scum, like post 97 below
The others don't have enough posts or impact on the game yet.

Sash, you’re at L-1 with 4 days left. It’s time for you to claim.

Vanilla Townie

UNVOTE: Bob3141
Forgot my vote was here.

Sigh
UNVOTE: URAP2

if you're town, voting ruirui is way more plus town than getting lynched.

All right, but I think she's

L-1

.
Intent to hammer!

Brb in 30 minutes, this is fun!

I'm not terribly interested in a Sashaddin lynch today

I'm not locking him as town but there's enough tonal things here that I'm throwing in the upper half of my list

my biggest problem with his iso is 660/661 but that's enough to nudge him down for me

[Detective Pikachu]

minor note: skitter/exilon is basically never s/s

[Detective Pikachu]

Spoiler: Inferno

What the heck
I have to do analysis already?
Alright, give me a moment to read slowly
Also, I highly recommend shortening my name to 390.
And I claim Flying Pumpkin That Shoots Lazer Beams Out of It’s Ass.

VOTE: Exilon
I’m off-put by the tone here. Seems weird.
Skitter feels pushy
Sash feels reachy
Egix is NAI I think

VOTE: UR 2
UR2 ISO

40 almost feels more naked than Ausuka. Like it’s trying to look clothed when it is.
42 is pulling associations that aren’t even there. Me saying that I think Egix’s vote is NAI, especially when it’s clearly an RVS post, may be AI for me, but it certainly does not tie me to Egix on my own.
74: How is my post redirecting anybody, and saying that Egix and I’s conversation “went nowhere” is baloney.
75 is an attempt to vaguely defend Bob for no apparent reason.I don’t like that.
76 is your basic mudslinging.
78: First is my posting style and NAI, second is not simply “shade,”. It’s laying out my thoughts and sorting people, and I am not dismissing the reads on Egix, third, where else were you expecting that conversation to go on my end and where did I ever say I was now town reading skitter. I can scumread more than two people at a time.

In other words, this is caught scum. Help me with pressure guys.

Okay, I want to rethink my stance on skitter now that there’s not a million things on my mind. She’s not nearly as pushy as I first thought. I think that what caught my attention is this:

VOTE: ruirui

This is the kind of rvs post i can see scum making ^^^^

(i'm not explicitly calling her scum for this rn, but noting that it comes from scum more than town imo)

This post feels weird and self aware. Coming out of a scumgame myself, this sounds like something I would say. (You know what I’m talking about Rui and Egix, the whole parroting thing.) But asa whole it doesn’t read as bad as I thought it did on first glance.

VOTE: ruirui

This is the kind of rvs post i can see scum making ^^^^

(i'm not explicitly calling her scum for this rn, but noting that it comes from scum more than town imo)

VOTE: skitter

it's literally just a naked vote and my standard entrance. why are you not explicitly calling me scum for it? if you think it comes from scum more than town, and the average player has a 1/4 chance to be scum, that's great odds on page 1. it feels as if you're afraid of entering a confrotantion so early more than anything else.

This feels a lot worse than the above. It doesn’t feel like an honest defense from Ausuka. And it feels like a very aggressive defense too. Don’t really like that.

have you guys read sashadin's iso? Way better vote than exilon who is probably not trying to powerscum in the first ten pages and who is taking oddball views on things than the rest of the thread

VOTE: sashaddin

egix still scummy i think

inferno probably town

skitter probably town

This does not feel like natrual progression.
What happened to my being Egix’s partner?

Inferno is toward the middle for me

The early iso is kinda scummy, not lockscum scummy but 35 and 36 are not townie, and 79 doesn't immediately feel like a townie post

I feel like early game scumreads on this slot were above average to come from town

88 and 177 though are very slightly townie. the slot improving over time doesn't always make the slot town

probably don't want this for today's lynch tho

[Detective Pikachu]

I don't think 1157 not striking me as a townie case on exilon is a personality trait

[Detective Pikachu]

Spoiler: bob

Not got any strong feeling either way. Always found the intial part of day one a little awkward.

But at this stage i always get the feeling that mafia players would want to have an intial start were there lightly arguing against each other. As well as each starting there own lines of equiry agaisnt different town players. As it would start a organic lines of argument that would naturaly be distant. As i doubt any mafia team woudl want there eggs in any one basket. So im always naturaly suspicious of those intial arguements between players.

And at this moment I do think those trying to link players together a slightly more likely scum. As my feeling would be that they would be bussing against one scum partner, while also accusing a townie of being his partner. So if his partner was lost he could push against townie to even up the odds.

So i dont particularly get a good vib from persons linking of egix and inferno. Over a few posts that would of been a very weak bussing attempt if they were scum partners.
_____

Also if I get the feelign mafia in there arguments would prefer to hide there arguments in group. By making it appear that thre arguments are in harmony with anotehr player that they virtue of being mafia know is town . Ive seen a few examples of that but nothing realy note worthy, just somethign givign me sligth feeling

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Delibird

whats your reason for voting for him. As it appears to be alittle bit of naked vote. True you made a post about you think he was agressive but at teh same time you were hedging your bets if that meant he was town or scum


I just get the vibe your trying to quietly jump on what you hope will turn into bandwagon.

UNVOTE:

The logic is very flawed as well. Why would you think garmr not being nk woudl make him mafia?

That's what I tried to explain 3 times...

If I were mafia I'd kill town!Garmr first.
Scum!Garmr survives because he can't be killed he's mafia.

LUV has a good point too though. But my first thought was about Garmr being suspect for susrviving the night.

This is making me think you are mafia trying to say. That it couldnt possibly be you as your main risk didnt die



VOTE: sash

Who we should of lynched yesterday.

Sash I actualy find you post 1044 a little weird.

Are you trying to determine who would benifit from the CDB NK? Yet you seem to only going into what others thought of him. In fact it more arguement who CDB would have killed if he was mafia rather than him being a dead townie.

I think

Exilion strong town lean
Egix slight town lean
Skitter slight town lean
inferno town lean
detective confirmed town by mod
gamr town

sach im scum reading
Aus scum read
urp2 sligh scum lean
HRG slight scum lean

I kinda just don't want to read this slot, if scum it's newred and if not it's very lhf

I'll just do questions for now

bob:
can you explain the evolution of your skitter read?
why is sashaddin scum and not slightly scummy town mislynchbait?

[Detective Pikachu]

I feel like early game scumreads on this slot were above average to come from town

What does this line mean?

that I think I might have been voting inferno within the first 100 posts so I don't think people voting that slot, if inferno is town, are scummy for doing so

it's helpful for me to get a grip on the game by thinking through when people are scummy since sorting scummy pushes from townie pushes can help in the long run

idk tho just a note for when I do go back and reread at some point if I do

[Detective Pikachu]

I don't think 1157 not striking me as a townie case on exilon is a personality trait

I agreed with her that his analysis was heavy on the iioa, so i don't think that's wrong. What makes it not a townie case? I think that entire post and case is well within both of skitters ranges (town and scum)

Can you point to an example where skitter scumreads someone for an excess of iioa as town?

[Detective Pikachu]

Well I'm not at all in love with my initial solve but it's something like this

Exilon
Sasha
HRG
urap / inferno
Egix
bob
Garmr
Ausuka
Skitter

I have basically 0 confidence right now that I don't have scum in the top 3 or that I have more than 2 scum in the bottom 3, that's just kinda the reverse order I think I'd lynch in at this moment

it's somewhere to start anyway

[Detective Pikachu]

I'm willing to discuss exilon not being hard townblocked, I think it's more he's the last person I'd lynch today based on how I feel about his posts. similar but not exactly the same

[Detective Pikachu]

VC 1.09

RuiRui (4):

ChannelDelibird 174, Egix96 233, skitter30 637, u r a person 2 638

Sashaddin (4):

Ausuka 162, bob3141 180, Exilon 360, Garmr 456

u r a person 2 (3):

Inferno390 79, RuiRui 484, Sashaddin 501

Exilon (1):

High Risk Gamble 24

Not Voting:

Lil Uzi Vert 538

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

If I'm right about Sash then only scum possible on urap here is inferno but it's also possible all of urap was town... hmmm

I feel like there is probably not all three scum on Sash here, so I don't love a bob/garmr/ausuka threeman scum team. It's possible there's still 2 scum on sash at this point tho.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-05-03 20:00:00)

VC 1.FINAL

RuiRui (7):

ChannelDelibird 174, Egix96 233, u r a person 2 638, High Risk Gamble 754, Exilon 771, Ausuka 800, Sashaddin 850

LYNCH!

Sashaddin (4):

bob3141 180, skitter30 742, Garmr 748, Lil Uzi Vert751

u r a person 2 (2):

Inferno390 79, RuiRui 484

Not Voting:

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

this far in the day there could be 2+ scum on the lynch wagon and yet the people on the wagon don't seem that scummy to me, which makes me wonder whether there's an issue with my reads. I do think ausuka is probably the scummiest from the ruirui wagon

I need to review why LUV was actually on sasha... hmm

VC 2.04

Sashaddin (3):

bob3141 887, Ausuka 908, Garmr 1022

Egix96 (2):

Exilon 1043, u r a person 2 1058

Garmr (1):

Sashaddin 860

skitter30 (1):

High Risk Gamble 1115

Not Voting:

Lil Uzi Vert, Egix96, skitter30 1007, Inferno390 1030

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-05-17 19:00:00)

It makes me very nervous having bob/ausuka/garmr as the three pushing sasha at start of day today. That being said I don't think bob/aususuka/garmr is all three scum, I'd say that's unlikely, but I feel like there is easily one scum in the three

[Detective Pikachu]

Finally is sach was town and both urp2 and ausuka are town. Then I can't imagine why mafia simply didn't hammer sach.

Since they would have ended up on the rui lynch anyway

cause it was day 1 lol, a lot of scum are like, "I don't wanna really be noticed for doing anything" day 1, including hammering

the way sasha treated the hammer is one of the best reasons to townread him imo (unless I'm hilariously wrong)

[Detective Pikachu]

urap did you forget what day it is?

[Detective Pikachu]

that I'm voting here day 1

who wants to play "is this a townslip?"

does scum forget that we're on day 2? lol

[Detective Pikachu]

Ausuka, scum wants to look townie, not lynch town, on day 1. I'm struggling to buy that town you asks as weak of questions as you do in 1410. "why did scum do the thing?" " to look townie"

Saying why would scum do that almost always is answered by that, and I feel like you know that

[Detective Pikachu]

I think I just get pinged whenever someone says "if I'm scum why would i do x" so the way you worded that post really bothered me.

"Town also does that" is a fine rebuttal I guess

I kinda wish HRG had a bit more presence

[Detective Pikachu]

Yeah I still haven't really firmly decided on a vote and some of my townleans are kinda not very active

Maybe it is a playstyle thing but I still struggle with posts like 1424... you argue other people give IIOA but I look at a post like that and I'm kinda not sure why you're not voting Ausuka, and there's not a clear sense of whether you think Garmr is scum for making a post you disagree with a lot of. Like when you accuse Exilon of posting a lot but not really going anywhere with it, posts like 1424 feel very much like that to me

[Detective Pikachu]

That was at skitter but I think my train of conversation here just got kinda hijacked by the claim lol

[Detective Pikachu]

*not voting Garmr

[Detective Pikachu]

I even had coffee today, why do I feel like I need even more coffee to be functional?

[Detective Pikachu]

Ok well let's not lynch Garmr or bob today. Garmr's play has kinda bothered me but not so much that I can be sure it wasn't from being a PR.

Am I failing as IC if I say I want today's lynch to be between skitter, ausuka, and egix? Statistically even if my reads are awful there should be one scum in there right?

I guess I'm still just feeling pretty low confidence on my reads overall and I don't want to push the town in a bad direction just because I haven't processed all the evidence well enough yet

[Detective Pikachu]

if you get shot could that interfere with the result on inferno?

really depends on the number of deaths

[Detective Pikachu]

if you get shot could that interfere with the result on inferno?

really depends on the number of deaths

if he's the only death what does that imply?

if he's weak and he's the only death that implies there is doubt on the result:
a) chance scum killed him to prevent further results (the death is not scum indicative)
b) chance scum shot somewhere else and there was a protective action (the death is scum indicative and our doubt is incorrect)

given my slot is still alive, scum are obviously worried about a town doctor. but they might gamble on killing me tonight, in which case if I live we risk having to out the doctor tomorrow to understand the validity of garmr's death. this is something we probably don't want to discuss today but may have to discuss tomorrow.

obviously no protective claims today

I don't think scum no kill over killing garmr

also c) chance garmr is scum and is trying to control lynch pool, although at the moment I don't know why he'd do that when I wasn't saying I was going to lead a lynch on bob today so his play would be kinda ???, would have to be a desire to set things up for the next dayphase or drop a large wave of wifom on the game as a scum strategy. idk I'll have to think of whether garmr would make a play like that when it opens him up to the risk of being rolecopped if he doesn't know town power structure

[Detective Pikachu]

garmr I don't really want to leash you but you're pretty set on inferno? I personally would have said to do your thing on skitter, as an inno there would have been extremely useful to me. but idk, I kinda don't like telling prs how to play

[Detective Pikachu]

is it mechanically correct for me to ask that no protectives be on me tonight? I do think IC death + weak death --> guilty is better than IC alive + weak death + lots of wifom on weak result

I'm not sure this is correct but the thought occurs to me that theoretically the protective should be on garmr?

[Detective Pikachu]

Technically he only needs to clarify if he's a hider or not to sort out directing theoretical protectives, beyond that all we need to know is that he's weak.

[Detective Pikachu]

We can further discuss the necessity of a full claim tomorrow in the scenario where he's still alive

[Detective Pikachu]

But did you crumb on day 1 that you were hiding behind bob?

[Detective Pikachu]

Both the weak modifier and the hider role are considered normal on ms.

It's basically an investigative role that is meant to prevent a full mechanical solve by ensuring that the investigative cannot guilty the entire scum team.

But scum hider/scum visitor can also claim weak hider if they are expecting a tracker/watcher.

[Detective Pikachu]

Technically you can have weak anything, you could be a weak vigilante or a weak doctor.

Now, there is a question as to whether a weak hider is 'a lot of power' in addition to an IC, but I don't want to get into a discussion of setup balance with the amount of time in this dayphase left.

[Detective Pikachu]

I think my biggest problem with Garmr's claim is the lack of crumbs that he had chosen to hide behind bob on day 1.

[Detective Pikachu]

But scum hider/scum visitor can also claim weak hider if they are expecting a tracker/watcher.

i don't think this is a thing really

The worst claimed weak hider as a scum goon last year I think. It didn't work well for him but it's not an unheard of scum fakeclaim

[Detective Pikachu]

Strong scum players might claim weak hider to explain why they are still alive near endgame. I think claiming it on day 2 for no reason would be kinda ???? but there's always wifom you can spin about it later (roleblocker etc.)

I don't want to lynch Garmr today but I'm not sure I totally buy someone giving almost no crumbs that they were going to hide behind someone.

For example, this is the type of crumb I would expect from a weak hider going into night:

I also fundamentally disagree with the idea that the onus lies on everyone else to explain why they're townreading any particular slot, in the absence of anything resembling a smoking gun for any given slot. Most of the game is town. The onus is on the people who want a lynch to go through to provide compelling arguments for why that lynch is the best, NOT encourage town apathy/laziness by suggesting that "oh hey, you might as well just jump on this wagon because it's D1 and you don't have a defensible reason to townread anyone".

Stop hiding behind this notion that people need to explain their scumreads more than they have - everybody has gone in depth on scumreads on the wagons in question. Instead of asking for people to take a step back, is there anything you can point to that makes the wagons bad to you? Who would you rather lynch? And yes you really need to have an answer for that question this far into the game

"Stop hiding" he says to the player he plans to hide behind

Saying you just plan to hide behind someone you think is town, when you have no way of knowing they're town, is pretty incorrect play and I see no comparable crumb for hiding behind bob

[Detective Pikachu]

To be clear, I'm not saying Garmr has become much scummier in my book given I already had him toward the bottom of my PoE, I'm saying if he's town I think he played the end of day 1 incorrectly by not crumbing his target. For that reason I am not comfortable moving him a lot higher in my townblock, and if he is still alive tomorrow you will want to discuss when it is correct to lynch him.

[Detective Pikachu]

I see no reason not to believe the claim. If he doesn't hit scum with inferno tomorrow, we can direct his next attempt

If we mislynch today and he is still alive tomorrow, it is very likely it is mechanically correct to lynch him so we might not have another attempt for him. You want to get as large of a mechanical townblock as possible going into lylo.

[Detective Pikachu]

We're not lynching Garmr today, and that's fine, we don't need to discuss the claim more.

If someone has a strong nomination for today's lynch outside of egix/skitter/ausuka now is the time to make that clear

[Detective Pikachu]

Like right now I need to think of a scenario where:
-we mislynch today (statistically likely)
-scum kill me (depends on their read of the setup)
-garmr is alive tomorrow (depends on the validity of his claim, inferno, and the scum power structure)

if all three of these take place, then it is mechanically correct to lynch garmr tomorrow -- that's a lot of conditions, and any of the three not being true means it might not be correct to lynch garmr tomorrow. but I don't want the assumption to be that if garmr is alive tomorrow the focus should be on his target, because I think instead the question should be whether he should be lynched

I just want to make my thoughts there clear before I (fairly likely) die tonight

[Detective Pikachu]

Like right now I need to think of a scenario where:
-we mislynch today (statistically likely)
-scum kill me (depends on their read of the setup)
-garmr is alive tomorrow (depends on the validity of his claim, inferno, and the scum power structure)

if all three of these take place, then it is mechanically correct to lynch garmr tomorrow -- that's a lot of conditions, and any of the three not being true means it might not be correct to lynch garmr tomorrow. but I don't want the assumption to be that if garmr is alive tomorrow the focus should be on his target, because I think instead the question should be whether he should be lynched

I just want to make my thoughts there clear before I (fairly likely) die tonight

can yo eli5 why it's correct to lynch garmr tomorrow under those conditions?

If all three of those conditions are met, then tomorrow is the day before lylo. That means we need to play around a scenario where garmr is alive going into lylo, and all of his results are still unconfirmed.

Garmr being flipped weak hider transforms bob into an IC and means inferno is above average likelihood to be town, and this means going into lylo scum would have to either shoot bob as a new IC or shoot inferno as a near-IC. This means we are forcing scum to kill the mechanical townblock rather than players for reads, and this increases the likelihood of hitting scum in lylo.

This is much better than having Garmr alive in lylo and having a lot of doubt about potentially three results just because people think he will die from a guilty.

idk don't want to go too much into here because there's a lot of conditions that have to be fulfilled, but the bottom line is that garmr is still kinda scummy and I don't want him being kept alive going into lylo just based on the merit of his claim

[Detective Pikachu]

idk sorry if this all seems paranoid, I guess it's more that with garmr's claim I think the likelihood of a full doctor is less likely, which means scum probably also think a full doctor is less likely, which means it's way more likely they shoot me tonight

[Detective Pikachu]

why egix over ausuka? sorry I know you just said you're still processing things

[Detective Pikachu]

for a bit sure but we are kinda starting to run short on time in this dayphase

[Detective Pikachu]

sorry about stealing all the pagetops tris

[Detective Pikachu]

Yes, that's one of the reasons I'm sorta turning myself into circles about Garmr's claim. If he really is town weak hider, then scum likely have something to counter him, and Garmr is strong enough of a player that I would think town him would realize that scum are likely to have a way to respond to his role, thus making a kinda random claim even more ???

But Garmr is also not very much like the worst. While this is the type of claim I could see coming from a player like the worst, I'm less confident that Garmr has the disposition that would lead him to fakeclaim this on day 2 in this manner. But it's also not a claim that is likely to bait a night kill, so as a town fakeclaim it's also ???

Basically Garmr's play right now doesn't totally make sense to me from any alignment's point of view, although maybe if he's scum he didn't think I would argue it's correct to lynch him on day 3?

A claim made under dubious circumstances and where there aren't town behaviors I would expect (crumbing etc.) make me very skeptical here, since his play only makes sense from a town POV where he is *very confident* in his bob townread and also assuming scum have no roleblocker which is a ??? assumption to make.

But I wasn't saying to lynch him before and I don't want to lynch him today just because his claim seems ??? to me.

[Detective Pikachu]

You claimed MD on skitter and skitter had visited relly and relly had confirmation skitter visited him because she was loud?

I don't get that at all, wasn't skitter the night kill? There's no possible way there could be no movement on a motion detector result so your claim was super absurd?

It does reinforce my sense that as scum you might not actually think through your fakeclaims all the way

are there examples of you claiming in a ??? manner as town?

[Detective Pikachu]

Hi Gamma! I am revealed innocent child. Garmr recently claimed to have a weak-inno on bob, but his claim is kinda sketch (imo). Sashaddin has claimed VT. I believe that is all claimed mech actions. ChannelDelibird and RuiRui are both flipped VTs.

I'm currently suggesting Ausuka, Skitter, and Egix as three potential lynches today, so if you don't want to read the whole game, you could iso those three and see if any of them strike you as scummy. If none of them strike you as scummy that would also be informative!

Thanks for replacing, especially since we don't have a ton of time left in this dayphase! We currently only have about ~2 days on deadline

@Tris

could you update the deadline after the freeze today?

[Detective Pikachu]

@Tris, Egix voting Ausuka is correct, but he should not also appear in the Not Voting list.

<3 you're doing a great job modding btw

[Detective Pikachu]

I am totally disgusted by the way Gamr has done that claim. Now I get shot at night and both he AND I die.
We need a protective on me tonight. If there is not a protective tonight...

I don't understand why you both die if you're town?

I don't mind your slot being protected but I also don't really want to leash protectives based on garmr tbh, but yeah I think protectives on inferno would be better than protectives on me atm.

altho tbh that is a kinda wifomy way to respond to his claim lol, someone makes a mech claim and your first thought is what protectives should do, not whether you buy it or not?

[Detective Pikachu]

I know you talk about the claim later just weird that's what you open the post with

[Detective Pikachu]

Gamma between skitter and ausuka which are you more confident in being town and why?

[Detective Pikachu]

1598 vs 1604.... Does the amount of town being on the wagon matter or not?

[Detective Pikachu]

why do you think skitter is town?

Just talking reads

[Detective Pikachu]

why are you voting sasha other than 260?

[Detective Pikachu]

Tbh the "it seems more correct to lynch sasha as claimed vt" is some of the scummy logic that made me want to lynch skitter in the first place and the dude looks like mislynchbait to me so I kinda don't care whether his wagon has momentum or not, ausuka jumping on the leading wagon doesn't make me feel any better about it either. I think there is scum in either ausuka and skitter and both are pretty ok with sasha going down.

I think in my mind I've actually already flipped garmr as scum actually and I kinda want to lynch ausuka just for putting him as a tier 2 read.

Idk I guess I need to actually start doing stuff

VOTE: ausuka

[Detective Pikachu]

Sash's posting has not impressed on any level and they definitely give off a sense that they have a scum agenda.

"Impressive" -- have you looked at sasha's games? Isn't he like always dead by day 3? He wasn't kidding about being a frequent mislynch

[Detective Pikachu]

I don't think anyone voting sasha is more town for doing so

[Detective Pikachu]

I don't think scum are dumb enough to fall for it anyway, protective should be on inferno

[Detective Pikachu]

Gsrmr was in the 3 names I listed for today's lynch

[Detective Pikachu]

This game seems slow for three competing wagons with 24 hours left

Sashaddin we're not lynching Garmr today. How do you feel about Ausuka and Egix?

[Detective Pikachu]

VOTE: Garmr

Let's lynch this slot just for 1643

[Detective Pikachu]

I still don't see what possible town rationale you could have behind claiming as a weak hider and giving scum the opportunity to double kill you, and given the willingness of the rest of the town to townread you for a completely nonsensical claim I'm perfectly happy to just lynch you today

[Detective Pikachu]

I'm almost certainly dead tonight and I'm not sure I trust the town to lynch Garmr tomorrow once I'm gone.

[Detective Pikachu]

Exactly, you were in no danger of getting lynched but then sabotaged your options for investigation in the night. And now you're okay dying as a strong town investigative. Your play this game does not reconcile with your claimed role and given your propensity for lulzy nonsense claims as scum that seems like a fairly simple explanation for what's going on.

[Detective Pikachu]

I think it would have helped if he started by not rolling scum.

[Detective Pikachu]

urap you seem relatively confident in your ausuka read but I don't really see a lot of specifics. what posts did you reevaluate in 1238 and why do you feel so much stronger on egix today than ausuka?

[Detective Pikachu]

Both

[Detective Pikachu]

idk, trying to decide how often 1063 comes from scum, especially if bob is town scum drawing attention to conflict with three people on a read on a town slot simultaneously is an interesting play

There's something about Ausuka's play here that wishes I was a mason rather than an IC 0.o

[Detective Pikachu]

I think no one wants to mislynch the top poster, which suggests people are over-valuing activity as being alignment indicative.

Then again, sometimes it is, and hey, Egix and Ausuka are both in the bottom three posters. I think the only townread slot that is in the bottom three posters is Gamma's slot.

Yet I don't feel like Egix is a lurker, and this isn't really any different for his post rate than when he posts as town.

I don't really like Ausuka's list in 1598, and I feel like whenever she tried to discuss all her reads in day 1 she over-explained them. I would have liked to see a simple and clear reads list from her mid day 1.

Then again I feel like today is just going to be a mislynch no matter what. I hate going out on a mislynch as IC but I just don't feel confident enough in any one scumread to lead a crusade.

I'm very tempted to go back to Ausuka.

right you asked about sash. *drinks coffee*

I like Sasha in RVS and I like the way he handled the hammer. He did not feel like scum that knew he was about to hammer town. I also think him pushing you seemed reasonable because you seem scummy.

[Detective Pikachu]

That said, if she is scum. this game, she is putting in a tremendous amount of effort. Most of what you noted as pinging you is either a personality tell from skitter, or, in the past, town tells for skitter.

You didn't react to that at all when it was basically said here?

I listed skitter as my top scumread and activity was definitely a part of why there aren't any wagons on her now

I'm not sure I think urap is scummy for that argument I just think it's a weak reason to tr skitter, I know he said there was other stuff but eh

[Detective Pikachu]

You have some of the same concerns as me. i don't think her response is enough to move my read. I guess my question is why is sasha better fypov?

[Detective Pikachu]

Well at least I'll have the dead thread soon.

[Detective Pikachu]

VOTE: skitter

Need my vanity to be in the correct place

[Detective Pikachu]

You think Garmr is attempting to claim a mechanical inno on a scumbuddy with 0 investigative tprs claimed?

That would be a pretty ambitious play

[Detective Pikachu]

This still stinks of mislynch just not sure who it's correct to derail this onto

[Detective Pikachu]

I was more saying if Garmr is scum bob is more likely to be a pocket than a scumbuddy so listing them as s/s is an interesting read.

[Detective Pikachu]

Meh

[Detective Pikachu]

Protective be damn sure you're on Inferno, scum please kill me

[Detective Pikachu]

They do indeed

[Detective Pikachu]

Scum, I'm very disappointed in you. You were supposed to kill me.

[Detective Pikachu]

Why are you responding to a dead person?

[Detective Pikachu]

Self note, bob is not scum with urap

[Detective Pikachu]

VOTE: garmr

[Detective Pikachu]

Three scenarios:
Garmr/Bob masons
Garmr/Bob neighbors with a mason claim gambit with at least one town
Garmr/Bob scum/scum with mason claim gambit

I don't particularly want to reread garmr again so I might read bob tomorrow morning when I'm fresh. I'd like Bob to emphatically rule out 2 though as I would see a neighborhood based mason claim confirmation as gamethrowing right now.

VOTE: Ausuka while I sleep on it

[Detective Pikachu]

Why did it feel like you were softing protective for most of day 2?

[Detective Pikachu]

VOTE: skitter30

i think her recent play has been decently scummy and i don't want to be wagoned to a claim here, so with consideration to how detective pika pika has skitter as a sr and how the wagon seems much more likely to form than if it was on bob. obviously if bob is being wagoned i'll switch back but.

why are garmr/bob scum? neither were particularly in danger of being lynched iirc.

Pedit: I'm not wrong in what I'm doing.

You softing tpr is literally the only reason you weren't lynched, that was the main reason that I didn't derail Sashaddin onto you. I wasn't sure I'd have time to evaluate your claim in the time we had left. I'm still kinda grossed out by that lynch but I wasn't confident enough in you to lynch you through what was obviously going to be a tpr claim.

I don't get why you are still alive frankly, it was super obvious you were planning to claim tpr. But I guess there's a lot of wifom with the stupid inferno kill so meh.

[Detective Pikachu]

Like, New York setups have been pretty stacked at times but neap+IC+masons feels like a bit much.

Gamma's gotta feel nice knowing there's a 0% chance he's today's lynch though.

[Detective Pikachu]

Spoiler:

I don't know if I' explaining well enough here.
Garmr surviving the night makes me think he has a lot of % of flipping red, because If he is town I don't think CDB was a better kill over Garmr.

sasha are you scum after all

The logic is very flawed as well. Why would you think garmr not being nk woudl make him mafia?

That's what I tried to explain 3 times...

If I were mafia I'd kill town!Garmr first.
Scum!Garmr survives because he can't be killed he's mafia.

LUV has a good point too though. But my first thought was about Garmr being suspect for susrviving the night.

Ok but what makes you think scum's view of the game is the same as yours is? You'd kill garmr but that seems very based on your own perception of him as a player and I can't understand why you're saying that everyone else would do the same thing.

VOTE: Sashaddin

Ok so I'm much more comfortable here than on Garmr and there's no suspicious behaviour that I think I should try and build a new wagon on. I don't fully understand where scumreads on Garmr are coming from: the wagon so far is Sashaddin's vote which is really :v and Inferno's vote which is based on this:

God I don't want a last minute lynch on a spontaneous wagon.

God I don't want a last minute lynch on a spontaneous wagon.

why not tho

1 sash is going to flip scum.
2.less information than wagons that have been going all day.

Unless you wanna lynch inferno?

Given that the only “spontaneous wagon” going on is UR2, this reads suspiciously like scum worried that his partner is going to get lynched out of nowhere because the wagon he’s been pushing falls apart. Plus saying I should be lynched, especially when widely townread indicates to me that he’s scum that wants to get rid of me.

I think this is really shaky reasoning too: sure he says it's scum that's worried his partner gets lynched but... nothing seems to indicate that's actually the case. It's a possibility but nothing makes it more likely than Garmr just being town who doesn't want urap (a non-scumread) to be lynched over Sasha (a scumread.) Additionally if Garmr really wanted rid of Inferno he'd probably do it over the Night phase rather than try to lynch one of the hardest players in the list to lynch.

Otoh Sasha seems quite likely to flip scum for reasons I stated yesterday+the way he's using the kill to push Garmr here feels really wrong. I probably should've kept voting him yesterday lol, although chances are we would've lynched ruirui anyhow.

If you died night 2 town knows you have an inno on HRG how exactly?

[Detective Pikachu]

Scum neapolitan is a much safer claim for scum to make than masons with their buddy with no investigative role outed.

[Detective Pikachu]

Why would I die n2? I thought the chances were literally 0, even before claims.

You could have been lynched?

[Detective Pikachu]

Scum neap vs IC + 2 masons isn't like particularly outside the range of the logic of normal setups but I don't want to lynch you for your claim either exactly, I just don't see a lot of evidence in your play to support your claim

you basically say nothing about HRG

[Detective Pikachu]

If there's a way that finishing mass claim could hurt town with ic masons neap and detective claimed I'm not sure off hand what it would be.

UNVOTE: just cause people need to check in

[Detective Pikachu]

I think we finish mass

Skitter in your mind have you played like vt or tpr this game?

[Detective Pikachu]

I guess I'd go urap first then egix but I don't care about order that much and you two can claim whenever you post next

[Detective Pikachu]

Ausuka's claim is susp as f but strictly speaking this isn't totally outside the range of the level of stacked that normal games can have especially when we don't know what scum have.

I think it's likely we have at least three tprs so there's at most 2 scum making tpr claims I think and one scum in the vt claims. That means it's either garmr + bob, or 1+ from ausuka and skitter

[this is not a reads list, all names are unsorted]

tpr claims
skitter30
Garmr
bob3141
Ausuka

'checked vts'
Gamma Emerald

vts
Exilon
u r a person 2
Egix96

if we lynch in egix/urap, have ausuka check the other, then if/when we mislynch we enter a gamestate where there's a discernible blocking around ausuka, or ausuka is dead and gamma is a second ic. problems emerge with no result claims tho
have skitter check bob in this path? maybe?

I think from a pure statistical point of view that makes the scum team have to most commit to their gambits, but the problem obviously is that all of the people I've thought were scummy have claimed tprs which means if we lynch outside the tprs we will have a harder time hitting scum.

if skitter is town her role isn't a LOT better than motion detector

basically depends on how strongly we feel ausuka is town and whether we think town can handle lylo effectively with no scum flips but a large mechanical block of claims

another option would be lynch garmr, have ausuka neap urap, have skitter det egix, or something like that. This forces scum to choose between killing me and bob which gives us one ic in lylo and several existing mech claims. I suspect garmr and bob would not support this course of action.

I think lynching vt is the mathematically optimal play here but lynching ausuka is very tempting since that is very much the weakest tpr claim

I'm just sort of spewing thoughts though I still haven't really properly reread certain things. I think we're functionally guaranteed to have a scum in the vt claims and since I'm not totally in love with any of the three for scum some sort of reevaluation has to happen there. Tempting to have urap be the lynch if we're doing a vt claim. I think skitter wanted to townread there so if she's going to double down I'd like to see why.

[Detective Pikachu]

As I said, if urap is town I will probably need convincing

[Detective Pikachu]

I feel like this is the second time skitter has tried to dumbtell

But can urap/skitter be 2/2?

[Detective Pikachu]

Sorry about the prod guys

I will try to get caught up tomorrow sometime

[Detective Pikachu]

VOTE: ausuka

[Detective Pikachu]

there's probably a gated doctor that fakeclaimed VT and ausuka is just trying to bait it out at this point

[Detective Pikachu]

bob just hammer it

[Detective Pikachu]

"it" referred to the wagon

[Detective Pikachu]

I'd say jester but this is a normal I think

[Detective Pikachu]

or are you asking whether you'll flip goon or scum PR?

I'd guess goon tbh

[Detective Pikachu]

why would you self hammer before I can post

[Detective Pikachu]

For the record, I am now willing to entertain the notion that Garmr is town and maybe should not be today's lynch.

***

Anyway, I think we throw a dagger in for Egix, urap, and Exilon and see who comes out on top, ye? Should we play theme to Hunger Games, O Fortuna, or Verdi's Requiem?

[Detective Pikachu]

This thread is now a dance party until bob gets here

[Detective Pikachu]

Hi bob! It's your last night on earth! Who you wanna kill? And if you're wrong, who should die in lylo?

[Detective Pikachu]

Spicy. Let me know why you're leaning exi

[Detective Pikachu]

Cool! So right now you're leaning exi to egix? why exi before egix rather than egix first?

[Detective Pikachu]

Where did everyone go?

[Detective Pikachu]

I think skitter preferred egix for most of her last day but then kinda switched to exilon in part because of egix's vote on ausuka

was "egix voted ausuka" the main reason skitter wanted exilon over egix or was there more than that? anyone remember that part of the game that well?

[Detective Pikachu]

Ok.

Egix if you are scum do you mind conceding so we don't drag this out?

[Detective Pikachu]

Ok.

Egix if you are scum do you mind conceding so we don't drag this out?

I'm town tho

And even then you shouldn't really say stuff like that

I mean I don't see why you would think you're winning a 1v1 with urap and we'd have to wait around 2 days if you don't

[Detective Pikachu]

[Detective Pikachu]

Yeah, those things I wanted yesterday would be good now too

[Detective Pikachu]

I wanted to throw a dagger into the ring and have you two go at it. Whatever that means for you. Scumcase him, towncase yourself, whatever spews one of you one way or the other would be nice

[Detective Pikachu]

Given you wanted Egix earlier, why did you vote Exilon yesterday?

[Detective Pikachu]

HRG... was scum?

[Detective Pikachu]

Now I'm wondering whether HRG was actually in this game short enough that you would legitimately have forgotten he was your partner LOL

if that was an intentional dumbtell wifom that was some grade A shit

[Detective Pikachu]

Second time I've seen a townie-ish dumbtell from you tho, would you really go for a second intentionally after I already commented on the first?

[Detective Pikachu]

On the other hand very slightly bothers me that town!you forgot who all was in the skygazer slot

[Detective Pikachu]

I am well aware of the accuracy of skitter's reads but I also know that she doesn't always catch powerwolves who are capable of high presence

I've also been trying to decide if scum egix actually just concedes the game in the night when I don't give him the fast night lol

[Detective Pikachu]

I mean, you not reading exilon as obvtown when he was obvtown didn't help. Like I guess I needed to shut that down more forcefully but I wanted to see scum try to actually push exi with anything other than naked votes. How on earth was he not spewed town super hard by Skygazer interactions? Like ferreal

I guess I didn't realize I needed to tell the IC "don't hammer the obvtown" despite him saying that was his second choice, but autowin was always Egix-->urap so the 5-way lynch on exilon still has me kinda chafed

[Detective Pikachu]

The way I play usually involves scum self-hammering in this situation, I'm not actually going to hammer Egix for at least another two days, probably longer. If he's scum it'd be nice if he could save me the trouble of rereading and analyzing tho given he loses this 1v1 almost every single time.

If all he says is "im town vte urap" then I might hammer him sooner, otherwise I'll probably reread the entire thread and then hammer him like... idk, if not late Saturday, maybe Monday or Tuesday.

egix you have at least (expired on 2019-06-08 22:51:49) to towncase yourself and scumcase urap is what I'm saying

[Detective Pikachu]

ah, i hadn't done the math, and didn't realize their had to be a fake claim.

I think of the vt's (exilon, egix) egix is almost certainly scum. I don't really read exilon as scum, but it's possible

In order of likeliness, I'd say Egix + Garmr + Bob
then Egix + Exilon + skitter
then Egix + exilon + ausuka

this is actually one of my least favorite posts because I thought you were going to realize the fake claim necessity sooner if you were town, that this comes after my 1825 rather than before means it doesn't help me read you nearly as much as it should

[Detective Pikachu]

Oh yeah 1828 also says exilon + skitter over ausuka, what's up with that, and you say a bunch of possibilities but not ausuka + gamma/sky

[Detective Pikachu]

Yeah that's what I meant.

I'm not going to do a meta dive to see if it's really the same, I'm just not.

But if you're not scum, help me out here because this game state feels like we're no where close to landing on a scum lynch

and i think that gives you scum equity all on its own

i'm literally voting someone who you said you would vote. i've explained why they're scum here. what more do you want?

how is it metadiving if I literally give you the posts in a spoiler. you don't even need to actually read it, just notice that I post big posts as town too.

I meant that I'm not going to do a metadive to confirm. like 2 posts does not a meta read make

Does this read like s/s to you egix?

[Detective Pikachu]

VOTE: bob

this is where my heart truly is.

maybe a new perspective from the IC-slot will kick this game into gear

Hmm why did you move back to bob here after being on ausuka for like.... Half a page and 2 interactions?

[Detective Pikachu]

urap did you know your iso is three pages this game and processing any one page of it is like, exhausting lol

VOTE: egix

I buy ausuka claim

Busy until about noon pst

I guess I always thought Ausuka's claim was pretty bad so I'm kinda at a loss as to why you ever bought it, but I guess the question here is whether scum is the one that ignores the IC's argument and buys the neap claim vs. Egix who at about this same time basically sheeps me on Ausuka.

I see no reason not to believe it atm? I don't think ausuka had a reason to soft their result. They weren't dying over inferno really ever

Seems like really weak reasoning

There should be more votes on egix =/

Still kinda weird to me that you come back on Exilon yesterday after this

You'll have to wait if you want me to sift through and remind myself why (I'll do it, but not now), but I've been town reading ausuka for most all of this game

Bob has been scummy af, garmr's hider play seems like a great way to get over the hump to day before lylo and he seems like just the kind of guy to look at bob and say 'okay, if we're going to keep you alive we're going to have to get creative' And I've had a low-key paranoia about him forever (I'm not sure I ever mentioned it, so scum read me for that if you'd like)

You, I was quietly second guessing my town read on by the end of d1, and I was starting to actively question it I think end of day yesterday (might have been beginning of this day, but wherever I started pointing questions towards you). And like, you've modded a town game of mine, played scum as a partner of mine, and played as tvt with me. So you being so wrong for so long, switching to a town read on me with no explanation, and now switching back is ??? This is simply not my scum game and of everyone in this thread, you should be the one able to see that.

More to the point, egix is fucking scummy and we should have lynched him yesterday.

put it all together and that's where I'm at. We're pretty heavy into PoE territory here, and obviously scum has slipped under the radar for a couple of days now, so I'm not even sure I can make great cases on any of them.

there's so much damn paranoia in this post lol; I know you ended up concluding they were town later but like, was bob ever really 'scummy af'?

Also, what happened to this:

ooooh it is ausuka scum, huh

VOTE: ausuka

I dunno how i missed the over-explaining

but this would also make a shit ton of sense for how I'm interpreting this gamestate rn

Like I guess you moved off Ausuka, but I guess given that this was kinda one of your more recent reactions to Ausuka before 1842 and I need to double check again but I don't remember you coming out with a super strong tr on her after this post

ausuka is a she. can you say the bit about ausuka agian, not following what you're trying to say exactly

sorry ausuka I didn't mean to misgender you.

I was saying that I think one or two of bob/egix are scum independent of a read on ausuka. So scum!ausuka requires me to believe there is at least one scum on them right now, which I don't really have a reason to believe, or that they are both town

Like the 4th potential dumbtell from you although I kinda doubt you would intentionally misgender a scumbuddy just for theater. That being said like, how do you forget Ausuka is a she?

[Detective Pikachu]

Really annoyed that this is a game where I have to choose between the guy who takes every position on every slot and half the time ignores what I'm saying vs. the guy who takes no position on most slots but tends to kinda agree with what I'm saying

Like, I don't think it's right to say Egix is scum because he was like "huh what the IC is saying about scum is reasonable" which is basically the excuse he offers for his ausuka vote coming out of nowhere otherwise -- he looked at my argument that Ausuka said nothing about HRG and was like, yeah that seems kinda susp.

vs. ignoring the IC's argument that Ausuka is scum and saying it's time to lynch Egix; only to then in 5way decide that Exilon is his pref

[Detective Pikachu]

I'm having a really hard time not complaining about bob's hammer every post and I think that's one of the reasons I'm having a hard time totally focusing on this game. I'll see if I can't get some caffeine and come to some sort of conclusion tomorrow.

I do think that Egix has the capacity to spew himself town and that it's kinda disappointing he didn't do so in this game if he was town, while there are scum games and town games that look fairly similar for him, there are town games that clearly are outside his scum range but this isn't really one of them if he's town, at least not on a cursory investigation

[Detective Pikachu]

i mean, you tried looking through my iso. If I'm scum, this is a fucking masterpiece

I mean, rapidly changing positions on scum teammates is something that you might see from Gamma Emerald on like, a really good day of his scum play. I would say unquestionably you want this win no matter what your alignment is.

I would say that the varied different types of dumbtells/simple mistakes has me thinking that you decided to spew yourself as not s/s with Ausuka in very indirect ways that I think not a lot of people look for which is... idk. But your read development on her is also so all over the place it's not totally impossible you wanted to just create a massive range of noise. I feel like my reads don't flip flop quite as frequently as yours do tbh. You're like "Ausuka's town. Now she's scum. No she's been town all along. Now she's scum tho because poe." Like on the one hand it's hard to fake that level of back and forth but on the other there's certainly potential scum motivation for distancing while she's safe and then hard defending when she's actually going to get lynched in 9s.

But honestly I still feel like I haven't even begun properly analyzing this game, I keep kinda just wishing Egix would claim scum and self-hammer because he realizes that if I sit down and focus for more than 10 minutes I'm going to conclude he's scum most of the time here. I will say that this level of apathy isn't outside his townrange but *apathy is actually slightly scum indicative for him* so there's that.

There's also his early game play and his like, weird and awkward introduction in RVS about his town streak is something that I think doesn't come from scum very frequently

[Detective Pikachu]

any post in my iso, no matter how misguided, is full of WIM.

Yeah this is pretty fair, I just don't want to lose this game because Egix, as town, decided he wasn't going to try for like... two days?

[Detective Pikachu]

Yeah this is pretty fair, I just don't want to lose this game because Egix, as town, decided he wasn't going to try for like... two days?

Kind of a funny double entendre, cause I meant game days 4 and 5, but actually it also works for the two real life days I gave him to case you because his case on you is kinda not as good as yours. Like I know graveyard is like "Pikachu just hammer teh scum already, it's obvious," but it's a lot easier to say that with spoilers.

Like, you want this win so much more, but:
-I didn't like the sasha hammer
-I didn't like the exilon vote
-I don't terribly like your initial defense of ausuka on a reread

there are reasons to have real doubts on you being town in ways that frankly there weren't for exilon, and while you might think you were obvtown you also, if you were paying attention, would have realized I always lynch you over exilon in 3-way if it did come to that, hence why there is a part of me that's worried the exilon push was specifically to play into bob since you felt more comfortable winning a 1v1 with egix

that'd be a pretty savvy play but I also feel like I hadn't been particularly subtle with my townread on exilon until 5-way which was when I wanted the uncleared slots to actually say stuff about each other, I guess I really misplayed by not communicating a bit more of the pace I wanted with bob but I guess I just don't assume masons are gonna lulhammer when they are not the ones who have to be alive in 3-way if they're wrong

that being said if that was your play, I kinda guess maybe you would have said more to bob in 5 way? the naked vote doesn't really match this tinfoil very well so I'm still basically thinking egix.

[Detective Pikachu]

I mean, from your point of view, you know it is s/s.

From my point of view, it doesn't particularly look like s/s.

Vis-a-vis, you probably would want to convince me that it is.

I can win this game by doing one of two things:
-Correctly identifying town
-Correctly identifying scum

If I see things from urap that make it harder to see him as scum, generally you would need to address those things.

[Detective Pikachu]

OK let's look at this again. I remember feeling resistance to Egix being scum primarily for 1063, which is a post that I think very infrequently comes from scum. This is the main reason I resisted redirecting the Sasha wagon onto Egix in earlier game. I'm pretty sure you're alive in lylo pretty much because I townleaned you for most of the game due to 1063.

Town AGAIN? Really? Sigh...

VOTE: Ausuka

No naked votes allowed reeeeeeeee

Actually don't hate this awkward opening and it's the sort of weird thought process slightly more likely to come from town

Town AGAIN? Really? Sigh...

VOTE: Ausuka

No naked votes allowed reeeeeeeee

Something about the tone of the bolded bothers me.

Do you dislike playing town?

No, not at all. But I'm amazed that I've managed to rand town five times in five mini normals. No idea what the actual odds are of that but it's a stark contrast from my rand luck in open queue...

Seems kinda ok?

i don't particularly like this post, the first line kinda feels like you felt the need to randomly share that you're town which feels a little ????? and meh

yikes

VOTE: egix

If you were town, I would find it pretty hard to believe that you were genuinely astonished to be so (you know what the odds are every time you join a game!), especially given that apparently you've been scum in other game formats anyway. Maybe there'd be a "huh, OK then!" to yourself upon reading your role PM but caring so much that you brought it into the thread in such an overblown "wow, can you believe it!?" sort of way? No, it doesn't feel right.

I made my opening line OTT on purpose because I knew that people would react to it, and I hoped to gauge people's alignments early on based on said reactions. So:

- skitter's reaction reads slightly towny to me, my gut tells me it's more like awkward town than waffly scum

- urap2's is null I'm afraid

- But CDB feels like he's being too aggressive here. Not sure if the overexplaininess (my laptop redlines that, is that even a word?) is normal for him but to me it feels like scum taking the bait. Like, if he's scum, he's probably thinking "oh, awkward town, better push on him".

This kinda ruins my reason for wanting to tr you early tho, since now your weird sort of natural expression is reimagined as a reaction test that doesn't really amount to much and doesn't really seem to have a sort of town agenda.

Feeling pretty iffy about RuiRui so far. Most of her posts so far are pretty surface-level stuff ("Inferno, you're moving too fast with your reads" without really talking about what that might mean, or "well now nobody can use that for info" after the comment about reactions to LUV) without truly engaging in anyone's alignment. Need to see more evidence of desire to actively uncover the scum rather than just reacting blandly to a random post here or there.

*Reads her ISO*

I'll admit, you're not wrong there. She does feel underwhelming compared to last game so far.

Really don't like this post, I would say it primarily reads fake rather than scummy but fake can be scummy

What are your thoughts on Sash? I like Asuka’s breakdown of Sash’s vote on Bob.

I think Sasha's reasoning for voting bob is pretty reachy but I don't think it makes him scum. (meta reasons)

I'd like to see a bit more content from him before giving a full-fledged read.

On the one hand, I like that someone in this game bothered to townread Sasha. On the other hand, using meta as an excuse to pocket Sasha seems like something scum would do, given that you don't really expand or explain this reasoning or really engage at this point to derail the wagon. The problem here is there's no way to separate this from you garnering towncred for a green flip given your lack of involvement

I think I'm going to quit playing Mafia, I always end up being lynched in the first days and that doesn't help town at all.

Assuming that you're not faking here:

But I have personally never witnessed you being lynched in a game (in schadd's game you got NKed iirc, and then in Mewtaph's game you were in danger at one point but I helped to turn things around and get scum lynched instead) so I don't get why you're upset here.

I don't hate the townread on Sasha but I do feel like a large chunk of your early iso is like exclusively focused on his slot. I *could* see that if you planned to solve around him, but I don't get the impression that's what you're doing, and white knighting someone you think won't scumread you later is something scum can do

Yep, I can dig this.

VOTE: Rui

It reads as you have this slot an null or at a post scum lean, correct me if I'm wrong?
Is this really the strongest read you have to go with at this stage?

I generally find forming townreads to be easier than forming scumreads. Normally on Day 1 of a game I end up having a good number of townreads but rarely any strong scumreads, only leans in that direction.

So yes, at this point RuiRui is the closest thing I have to a full scumread.

On the whole this can easily come from town but there are certain types of scum players that struggle to advance any sort of agenda in the early game and eventually just try to come off as though they have to be talked into bussing which they will eventually do. Like the strategy here would be to conflate passivity with sorting when they're not the same thing.

Skitter just really pings me with their posting and just feels like a lot of empty posting.

Now that's a spicy read.

What exactly was spicy about the skitter scumread? I feel like there's no reason to see this as not s/s

which ones?

592, 632 and 635
You tell me if they are town to you...

Dont like the first post, the second two are nai imo

VOTE: sash

^^^^ entirely a compromise eod vote. I dont scumread him and i dont think he's flipping scum

If you're voting just to compromise, Rui is a better choice here

You just said HRG's scumread of skitter was "spicy" but this kinda doesn't feel like you engaging with someone that you just were inclined to re-evaluate based on a fresh read from a slot you didn't know was scum (HRG)

And i think this little proding has drawn out sash sucm partner. It ceratinly explains why chb was killed rather than some off teh wagon

Looks like high risk gambler is sash partner

We're not voting Sash or URA today.
Sash is just an easy target right now for a mis lynch.

If you think Sash is scum, then hold on to that for now until I can be bothered to explain why you're wrong and explain to me why X or Y are scum instead so we can work towards an actual lynch.

Gamble is practically begging to be lynched if Sasha flips red. Seems way too obvious for them to be scum together if you ask me. It would be wiser to just bus.

Very, very easy to see this as S commenting on another S

Bob is town.

Yeah Bob is town here.

i think bob is town

Whatever you three are seeing, I'm not seeing it...

That's sad to hear

Im vla until Tuesday, sorry guys

Goodbye other me

I mostly just wanna chill this weekend but if anyone wants anything from me, ask away, I'll check back later.

One thing I notice about your playstyle here that maybe I will investigate more later is your usage of emotes and sadness for certain players being around/not being around, even though you don't really seem to be hanging out with those people that much when they're in the thread. idk what to do with this just something I can look into more tomorrow when I dive deeper.

VOTE: Ausuka

Yeah I don't really like the way that she pushed on bob, 1191 specifically.

I'm completely willing to lynch the other two since they aren't on my town list. I can even

pretend to be scum

for you while lynching them! I'll make a make pretend Private thread in game, I'll invite

another

townie

lets say Bob

, Bob is fun.

No need to pretend!

Bake 'em away, toys

What does this post mean? Not arguing this is AI btw, just curious

Yet I don't feel like Egix is a lurker, and this isn't really any different for his post rate than when he posts as town.

Yeah you can't really read me based on activity/post count. I'm not a heavy poster and I have a history of lurking as both alignments.

==

@Garmr: Would you say that my meta read on Sasha is a bad reason then? Should I just drop it?

Like, it's really hard to believe you believed Sasha was town if you're not really going to engage in the actual meta discussion at all. Given you bring up your own games in your own self-meta, I feel like this is a really underwhelming meta-defense reaction to a push on Sasha

@garmr: yeah, weak hider didnt fit my understanding of what the setup would look like *at all* which is why the claim confused me - i was half-expecting a vigi, since it's a miller of sorts to me, but weak + detective is just ????

@exi:
A) i don't crumb usually, i forget to do so most of the time
B) why did u ask me this (and not, say, ausuka who apparently didnt crumb an inno)?

@exilon: what are you thinking of urap and gamma rn?

(Egix =/= Exi but ok)
a) That's okay, I don't usually crumb either
b) I was thinking that if you had a crumb to back up your claim then it would help.

So yeah, I'm just gonna go ahead and

VOTE: Ausuka

For me, it doesn't make sense for her to barely mention the person she's supposed to have a VT check on.

Would feel so much better about this being a town push if I had not been the one to already make the argument. Unfortunately being IC is difficult because it's hard not to feel like you saw the IC pushing this slot and realized it wasn't going to endgame and it was better to get on sooner than later. But it is hard to evaluate your reaction here vs. urap straight up ignoring me and hard defending Ausuka which is more open wolfy, although he reevaluated pretty quickly so *shrug*

UNVOTE:

I think that the mason PT comments above make it very clear that the masonry is real; upon urap's enquiry Garmr is instantly able to provide direct quotes in bob's style from the mason PT. In order for Garmr and bob to be scum here they'd need to have faked mason conversations in the scum PT throughout the game. And while I suppose that's

possible

it seems very unlikely for them to timesink like that for a mason claim they don't even always get to do, and while I've seen scum consider claiming mason and have even considered doing so I've never seen anyone literally fake false conversations in their scum PT. So it's very unlikely Garmr/bob are scum here.

Urap seems obvtown here and although skitter would be my ideal vote because I don't think the setup makes sense with us as t/t, I think people wouldn't want to lynch skitter over me so I'd rather go for Egix. I think that his jump on me at daystart was opportunistic - although town was obv voting me they were at least willing to act questions and consider I was town I think (det pika) whereas Egix decides I'm scum just because I didn't soft my inno, and doesn't even think about the possibility that the risk of softing an inno and possibly getting caught was larger than the practically non-existent reward of getting my result out upon getting killed - I mean who kills me n2?

Besides if egix is town who's scum? Pika, Garmr, bob, gamma, me are all out. That means only one town exists inside {skitter, egix, exi, urap} and I'm much more inclined to think that's urap, who has made me much less likely to be lynched today, while the other three have all been thirsty for my blood.

VOTE: Egix96

The thing is though that I don't really see what motivation scum!skitter would have for counterclaiming you, considering that:

- Her claimed role is not the same as yours; it's not a direct counterclaim

- It's not MyLo/LyLo yet so scum!skitter can't yet win the game by winning a claim duel with you.

Not only that, but I find it implausible for there to be that many potential clears at this stage (IC + 2 Masons + Town Neapol + VT checked by Neapol) as that's far too townsided imo. (Scum achieving two mislynches but getting borked out of a win because they missed the PRs... doesn't seem like good balance philosophy at all to me.)

This is such a good post but I guess it just feels off (and I guess this pinged skitter too) because it's weird you don't have this sort of clarity almost anywhere else in the game

The thing is though that I don't really see what motivation scum!skitter would have for counterclaiming you, considering that:

- Her claimed role is not the same as yours; it's not a direct counterclaim

- It's not MyLo/LyLo yet so scum!skitter can't yet win the game by winning a claim duel with you.

Not only that, but I find it implausible for there to be that many potential clears at this stage (IC + 2 Masons + Town Neapol + VT checked by Neapol) as that's far too townsided imo. (Scum achieving two mislynches but getting borked out of a win because they missed the PRs... doesn't seem like good balance philosophy at all to me.)

a) you agreeing with me is pinging me

b) i didn't really directly cc so much as express my incredulity that her role is town. i think she probably is a nea, just a scum one

a) You don't think that scum!me would try to downplay your claim though?

b) Do you think that you'd have been able to "express your incredulity" (as you put it) without hardclaiming?

Really dislike "a" here and also kinda dislike "b"

Yup

VOTE: Skygazer

L-1

The biggest problem here is more that this is the first time reading your iso I would be aware that Skygazer is in the game; your interactions with HRG are pretty noncommittal and don't really feel that much like sorting so this does seem to kinda come out of nowhere.

Well it's not me so...

VOTE: Exilon

but why exilon over urap? I dislike that bob hammered when NEITHER of your votes make sense to me and this was the critical moment we needed to actually have a conversation. but I also understand that I tend to be a bit more... slow paced than some people here.

i think he's town.

if he's scum, he's playing a good game. Not as good a game as gamr is playing if he's scum

but a very good game, nonetheless

(Referring to Exilon)
This aged well... urap must have

conveniently forgotten

this by the time D5 rolled around.

I kinda agree that the movement of reads from URAP are one of the hardest things to deal with, but that is something I can evaluate maybe more tomorrow.

i think ausuka is town

I def don't want to lynch outside those 4 players today

and your excilon case got me to rethink. you're right about iioa, and there were also a couple turns of phrase somewhere in the walls of text that pinged me

skim through hrg again for me? and don't forget the predecessor. I think that's our best shot today tbh

VOTE: hrg

ooooh it is ausuka scum, huh

VOTE: ausuka

I dunno how i missed the over-explaining

but this would also make a shit ton of sense for how I'm interpreting this gamestate rn

This turnaround happened waaaaaaay too quickly
Obvious case of bussing

--

That seems like a good place to take a break for today

this is just an awkard casing post because you're making it seem like he moved from one scum to another scum too quickly?

[Detective Pikachu]

So to be clear, it's not like I can't 'find town' in both of you. The problem is I feel like I have 'more' from Urap. I have more reasons to townread him, and more things that bother me. Flip flops, annoying hammers, bad defenses of scum. However, with you, while I do like certain things for town, i.e. 1063, there's just... so much NOTHING in regard to all of the interactions with the scum slots. It's like you're just frozen with Ausuka, have interactions with HRG that don't really make sense to me, and then just bus without having any sort of coherent sorting going on preceding the bus.

[Detective Pikachu]

@Urap, what exactly do you see as the scum motivation in writing 1063?

[Detective Pikachu]

i'm literally voting someone who you said you would vote. i've explained why they're scum here. what more do you want?

how is it metadiving if I literally give you the posts in a spoiler. you don't even need to actually read it, just notice that I post big posts as town too.

I mean Ausuka and urap certainly are capable of theater as scum so I guess, I mean I guess you're right that they probably weren't planning this in the PT so Ausuka was genuinely surprised if this is in fact s/s, but the annoyance at what would or would not count as a meta dive is so random and nitpicky it's kinda harder for me to see this as s/s personally

[Detective Pikachu]

What's funny is I feel like I had a very similar reaction to bob saying he thought it was Exilon at 5 way, where I said it was spicy and then just thought about it for a bit without really saying much, and then later talked to exilon. But somehow when you do it with gamble it seems scummy to me. I feel like maybe you would ask him about that read given you in that scenario are not an IC in 5-way, but someone talking to someone who just gave an against-the-grain read relatively early in the game. Like, "why skitter?" maybe?

[Detective Pikachu]

i think ausuka is town

I def don't want to lynch outside those 4 players today

and your excilon case got me to rethink. you're right about iioa, and there were also a couple turns of phrase somewhere in the walls of text that pinged me

skim through hrg again for me? and don't forget the predecessor. I think that's our best shot today tbh

VOTE: hrg

i've skimmed hrg's and cby's isos, and i kinda think the slot is town tbh

not really feeling a vote there rn

help me see it?

Conversely, if you're going to get skitter to townread you, bussing someone she townreads and then getting her to talk you out of it is like, basically the way to manipulate her.

I do wonder about the town thought process behind "help me see it?"

Like in this moment you're getting town to towncase your scumbuddy while distancing. (if you're scum)

I get what you mean why this would be 'a good performance' but that doesn't mean it *can't* come from scum.

[Detective Pikachu]

i think ausuka is town

I def don't want to lynch outside those 4 players today

and your excilon case got me to rethink. you're right about iioa, and there were also a couple turns of phrase somewhere in the walls of text that pinged me

skim through hrg again for me? and don't forget the predecessor. I think that's our best shot today tbh

VOTE: hrg

ooooh it is ausuka scum, huh

VOTE: ausuka

I dunno how i missed the over-explaining

but this would also make a shit ton of sense for how I'm interpreting this gamestate rn

This turnaround happened waaaaaaay too quickly
Obvious case of bussing

--

That seems like a good place to take a break for today

Were you gonna continue? Cause my deadline kinda passed.

Maybe we should proceed immediately to the dance off phase instead?

[Detective Pikachu]

find it because I was, what, power wolfing day 1 through skitter and inferno pushing super hard on me? I wish I could manage that

J/w but why do you think you're incapable of powerwolfing through scumreads d1?

[Detective Pikachu]

2323 reads kinda weird for someone in a mechanical 1v1 talking to confscum in lylo

[Detective Pikachu]

Hey, do you guys think

rui rui would be more likely to check into this thread prior to the deadline as town or as scum? Scum, yeah?

And even if you don't think it's alignment indicative,

I think we can all agree that it's pretty anti-town

to not be around much at all in the last few days before the deadline while being wagoned?

This is clearly the better choice for today, and

I'm disappointed with those of you who did not see that.

Manipulative language central.

dark green

= conf!town

light green

= town read

red

= probably scum

Please let me know if I got your alignment wrong. Thanks!

Sashaddin (5)

:

u r a person 2 159

,

Ausuka 162

,

bob3141 180

,

Exilon 360

,

Garmr 456

u r a person 2 (4)

:

Inferno390 79

,

skitter30 398

,

RuiRui 484

,

Sashaddin 501

RuiRui (2)

:

ChannelDelibird 174

,

Egix96 233

Exilon (1)

:

High Risk Gamble 24

Not Voting: Lil Uzi Vert 538

Names in red = rule of three

Can we have a side conversation on whether rule of 3 is a real thing or not

[Detective Pikachu]

Luv is an IC here of course and therefore cannot be scum so the pool of votes we'd be looking at is {u r a person 2, ausuka, bob, garmr}. Knowing that I'm town I personally can condense that to {ur2, bob, garmr}

more fodder for "is rule of 3 a thing" discussion

[Detective Pikachu]

Bob -> egix -> skitter

and even more

man if rule of 3 is a thing then Ausuka hit that note every single time lol

[Detective Pikachu]

oh wait shit 1305 suggests rule of three to egix

womp womp

[Detective Pikachu]

In either 292 or 1305, Ausuka created a list of three names to lynch, and included no scum. And in the other one, she included exactly one scum.

Maybe "rule of three" is a thing 50% of the time with scum? So more like a "rule of 1/6th"?

[Detective Pikachu]

1/6th -- also the exact ratio of selecting a scum totally randomly in this game for a scum player (3/13 --> 2/12 if you are scum)

vis-a-vis, if Ausuka includes lists twice in the game with 3 names, and in only one of the two times does she include all three names, thus resulting in a 1/6th likelihood that scum includes a scum name in their list of 3... then therefore the likelihood that a scum list of three includes 1 scum name vs 0 scum names is exactly the same as a totally random guess (1/6).

*maths*

[Detective Pikachu]

Wanna say Ausuka spewing some BS VCA while pushing a Sasha lynch is very slightly more likely to result in a list with 0 scum than a designated lynch order in mid game game?

[Detective Pikachu]

Egix made exactly 11 arguments against you; rejecting the "rule of three" logic as scummy refutes 9% of his case on you.

[Detective Pikachu]

If I toss the rule of three thing and the other points that seem fairly weak, I think his argument on you being scum is that:
159 is scummy, primarily in tone

Your development on Exilon does not make sense

[Detective Pikachu]

I kinda was expecting more from him tho, I thought it sounded like he was going to come back with more of a case on you today but it seems like not

Perhaps we should have a dance party?



Can either of you come up with a better dance than this? I don't think so.

[Detective Pikachu]

If not we can keep talking about stuff

yadda yadda viewtopic.php?f=84&t=79139&user_select% ... &start=200

some similarities to play here

[Detective Pikachu]

Compare post spree in mid-teens to reads catchup here and list accuracy viewtopic.php?p=10813920#p10813920

[Detective Pikachu]

A lot of tonal similarities to silver 3 that suggests this game isn't really outside your scumrange in terms of activity and engagement

however, the early reads look more similar to towngame

[Detective Pikachu]

urap would you do me a favor and link 2-3 of your other scum games where you have over 100 posts?

[Detective Pikachu]

lol how do I actually access your wiki?

[Detective Pikachu]

I was gonna, but I was feeling like it would be mostly redundant after your 2332
If you still want me to do it then sure, I'll have a sit down this afternoon

I mean that was really only page 2, although I don't remember how much is actually on page 3 offhand

[Detective Pikachu]

I don't feel like I'm getting more paranoid actually lol

I actually think I've identified a towntell of above random equity, I just was hoping to verify with a wider range of scumgames.

Why do you list Open 749 as a town game?

[Detective Pikachu]

Newbie scum game actually pushes against the tell a little bit but doesn't rule it out

[Detective Pikachu]

Oh right herpaderp, I just saw the hydra and thought it was silver 3

[Detective Pikachu]

Besides if you're worried about my paranoia, you could always just win the dance battle. :3

Really I don't see why this isn't the best part of a game. You have all the information, and we have more than a week to think about it, analyze, discuss it, rebut the arguments, consider. I think you can get to know people a lot better in lylo. It's a social game after all.

I do think I saw something other than the dumbtells that makes you significantly more likely to flip town here, so that's nice. I didn't want to hammer with that being my strongest reason to read you as town. And that is something you were asking for too

I do want to ask about the "auto" language though. It's very jarring to me that in your one developed scum game you also talked about "auto" in the end of the game, and focused on the "auto" pov arguments with slightly more emphasis than your actual reads. Can you point me to town games where you felt the game was in 'auto' or used that language? This is directly relevant to one of my biggest problems with your slot which is the read development and vote on Exilon, which was framed through this "it's auto" argument.

[Detective Pikachu]

o/t but how was hydraing with slaxx? am I reading it right that he kinda vanished on you toward the end of the game or did he just stop signing?

[Detective Pikachu]

Obvious partner read

Given 1428 is obvious, why did you vote Exilon yesterday?

[Detective Pikachu]

I do want to ask about the "auto" language though. It's very jarring to me that in your one developed scum game you also talked about "auto" in the end of the game, and focused on the "auto" pov arguments with slightly more emphasis than your actual reads. Can you point me to town games where you felt the game was in 'auto' or used that language? This is directly relevant to one of my biggest problems with your slot which is the read development and vote on Exilon, which was framed through this "it's auto" argument.

I don't know if I can. Not many games get to auto. In that game there were a bunch of roles with potential to interact in beneficial ways for scum. None of that happened, and I found myself in a spot d2 with a fakeclaim that that made it basically auto from my pov. there wasn't much way out and I was floundering.

that's a very different scenario from scum this game, which put itself in that position by failing to kill the IC or a pr over the first couple of nights

Come on you should have realized by now that skygazer was informed that I was bp, they knew they couldn't kill me all game

[Detective Pikachu]

You're right that not hitting a mason early was bad ish but it didn't give town a mechanical win given town has lynched every townie vt lol

[Detective Pikachu]

Ausuka making so much of a deal about a doctor when I thought it was unlikely there was a doctor in the game was actually one of the reasons I wanted to lynch her, I figured scum either were informed or had a one-shot strongman, and the way she was acting the day garmr claimed hider made me think informed.

[Detective Pikachu]

Sure.

I mean if you're scum you're more scum for open wolfing irt to Ausuka, both arguing she was town for claim and then arguing HRG was town as a consequence of Ausuka's claim.

You argue that's the best part of your iso but the only redeeming factor is the vote for Ausuka that seems to slightly contradict your pool of reasoning lol

CBY could be scum. I don't have a lot of experience with them but I think I expect better questions. This is based on the time they were active, btw, I don't think there's a good argument to be made here for an activity tell considering they have not been active on site

On re read I think Egix is actually probably town

I actually find it a bit interesting that you read Egix's iso in 2 minutes here.

[Detective Pikachu]

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77896

[Detective Pikachu]

if your scum buddy is Urap2 they deserve to win the game btw.

should hammer urap just so garmr never says a sentence like this again

[Detective Pikachu]

Yeah I was more looking for a precedent for him having this little interaction with scumbuddies and voting people that he basically hadn't interacted with. I looked at one of his other scum games where he had a lot more interaction with his partners, but if he's scum this game he was playing a lot closer to C9++ where A50 might as well not exist, which feels a lot closer to his play toward Ausuka here

I feel like as town he interacts with a wider range of the player list?

[Detective Pikachu]

I do agree that if you're scum this game urap you've wildly expanded your scumrange, I just don't want to give you the win simply because you approached the game with high motivation. That you want this win more than egix is pretty much without question, I've just been trying to decide if that is actually relevant for your alignment and I'm not totally sure it is. I think the general thing is that no one has a 400 post scum game until they do. Looking back there are legitimate reasons skitter and cdb scumread you on day 1.

The way your reads formed look generally much closer to your town game, but unfortunately you being so consistently wrong on Ausuka and then having that weird push on her that then went back to a hard townread feels kinda ehh. Your flip to wanting Exilon over Egix after Sky's flip also feels wolfy

There's also certain things that Egix does as scum that I don't really see here so there's still some room to think, but I've removed my concern that he definitely would have more theater with scumbuddies if he was scum

[Detective Pikachu]

I think I started with Egix being scum 60% of the time here and I might be up to 65%, but I don't think I'm getting to 100% very quickly.

I'm way more confident I could have solved Exilon for town and it's very difficult for me to not complain about bob's hammer literally every single post. Like how in 5-way is not objectively more scummy than Exilon I don't know (even if you're town I think there's plenty of reasons to scumread you frankly).

[Detective Pikachu]

Yeah I'm imagining scum team was all going "wolf pack powah" in the scum pt or something

I think scum going triple on d1 does tend to make more sense if one of the scum is threatened, i.e. your slot

CDB was also a slot that was likely to push you more on D2

RuiRui > Sash > Gamble

Gamble's initial burst of activity then failure to finish catching up sucks but is not particularly more likely to be from scum than town - merely very mildly. Would rather get info on a more prominent wagon. Would rather lynch likely scum over both

this is more true if CDB had at various times in d1 listed both you and HRG as mid-grade scum reads which means he probably had to go before lylo and sooner is often better

that being said, CDB could have just been the kill because of Gamble so it's not like that nightkill is exactly damning

[Detective Pikachu]

Would Lynch:

RuiRui

- I've made my feelings here clear. RuiRui seems to be posting just barely enough to not get prodded too much, and what she does say seems to betray a frightful lack of interest in the game at large. It's all the lightest of brushes against the surface level, to the extent that she isn't even reacting to any suspicion on her at all. Pressure must be applied here to force some kind of commitment to anything at all.

High Risk Gamble

- By no means a lynch I particularly intend to pursue right now, but it is one on which I would compromise if necessary. I thought CBY seemed alright until they disappeared, but the disappearance does sort of remind me of the times when I thought I had the energy to play scum then realised that I didn't. Gamble's start looks promising so far, though, so my preference is to wait and see here.

Egix96

- Struggling a little bit here. I liked him for bullheaded town earlier but he hasn't really got his teeth into the game quite as much as I would have expected from my impressions of his style. Gave a Sash townread for (as he himself acknowledged) pretty shruggy meta reads, then hasn't said much about the wagon at all, despite it being the major one for a few days now. I'd lynch most of the other people in this section before I lynched Egix, but I can't quite make my previous townread stick for the time being.

bob

- I find Bob's posts literally quite difficult to read, which makes evaluating his alignment tough. I think I'd rather get a couple of flips and then see how other players have treated him over the course of the game to get a better sense of it that way, but I don't really feel much either way so would compromise here if necessary.

Sashaddin

- The 'I'm so awful, always get lynched, going to quit' stuff happens on all levels of the alignment spectrum, which is not helpful. He hasn't got many stated reads, but of those stated reads his Urap read (and vote) seems to be entirely based on sheeping some really pretty uninteresting 'analysis' from Inferno very early, and his RuiRui townread came out of nowhere and has NEVER been explained. He just doesn't seem able to muster up anywhere to push that he genuinely cares about, either. This could all be explained by 'player having a tough time generally in a little over his head', but you'll note that explanation doesn't necessarily require Sash to be town. So I don't know. Any scum vibes I'm getting are pretty weak, but at this point I do think the wagon will be an interesting one to analyse regardless of the flip, and there is an at least middling chance of it turning up scum.

Would Not Lynch:

Exilon

- Close to the other category, but I feel like I'm still working out how to read Exilon and it might click with some more time. So far I have very little either way, but the fact that he doesn't seem like a realistic lynch Today anyway makes me happy enough to indulgently put him in this category.

Garmr

- I don't necessarily agree with many of his conclusions but he seems to be thinking proactively, confidently and fearlessly. Strong townread.

LUV

- Obviously.

Ausuka

- Her reactions to some of the early nonsense seemed to mirror mine a fair bit, which is a good sign. Her vote on Sash reads well, although she is a little too quick to work out what her plans are post-Sash-lynch for my tastes. There's not been a lot of urgency on her part to push the lynch through, which might make me paranoid if Sash turns up scum, but for now I think this would be a pretty bad place to start.

urap2

- I really, really wish I could say that I'd be happy to lynch them just to stop dealing with them but, gun to my head, I think this kind of behaviour is more likely to come from town than scum. Most of the things that they say are a complete mess, but they're argued with conviction, which makes me believe that it makes sense in their own head.

skitter

- Paranoid in all the right places. Strong townread.

Inferno

- Playing in such a carefree way that I am inclined to townread him, and the fact that he is so deep in the tunnels on a player like urap reads as pretty solidly town to me (though I have absolutely zero interest in ego crap like 'I have a really good record of hard tunneling scum').

----

Ordinarily I'd just hammer Sashaddin right here to get on with it but I'm happy to leave it for Inferno (or just me a bit later) in case anyone wants to talk about this post or catch up on things in general (I remember at least Exilon was planning to reread some bits).

My preferred lynch remains RuiRui, but I can live with this.

Decent Chance CDB gets killed more frequently if he's 2/5 rather than 1/5? Hard to say though, he could have been an anti-informational kill, and if Ausuka was conceived of as the deepwolf by the scum team then supporting the townread of her through his kill makes sense regardless of the urap/egix reads

[Detective Pikachu]

and the problem is that's a townread, but it's not a townread that you count on holding up to lylo if you're scum so *shrug*

[Detective Pikachu]

Unfortunately the only kill that isn't polluted by reads is the CDB kill; Inferno going down had *something* to do with Garmr's hider fakeclaim I'm just not totally sure what

So basically every nightkill in this game was either a PR kill or a PR-related kill (Inferno)

For day 6 it's kinda shocking how little NKA can actually provide this game

[Detective Pikachu]

I'm feel less like Sash scum with the VT claim and even though VT lynch / scum lynch isn't a bad choice day 1 I don't think Sash flips scum here.

committed to townread/he probably thought it would go through without him, but he'd listed him low enough in his poe that he was under no obligation to really hard defend the wagon

[Detective Pikachu]

Page 16 so far and Egix, URA, and Asuka look pretty good diverting against or ruling out scum in Inferno/Garmr 1 v 1

I wanna make "rule of 3" a meme

but what reaction gifs are most appropriate for that

[Detective Pikachu]

"Rule of 3 is not a tell?"

Spoiler:

[Detective Pikachu]

Garmr
Ausuka
Skitter

Detective Pikachu, caught scum via rule of 3

Spoiler:

Actually what's typical here is that there is exactly 0 VTs in my bottom 3 lol

[Detective Pikachu]

Spoiler:

What I find interesting is the wagons are spread out which could mean a number of things. It's quite a contrast to yesterday where their was like 2-3 wagons where everyone was.

yeah this feels like we aren't anywhere close to getting a scum lynch today

i kinda want to wagon exilon still but if i can't make that a thing for some inexplicable reason i'll try this

VOTE: ausuka

@hrg why is exilon town?

VOTE: Ausuka

Yeah I don't really like the way that she pushed on bob, 1191 specifically.

be more specific. what don't you like about it?

be more specific. what don't you like about it?

I find it a bit scummy that you described 948 as being stretchy and forced, rather than just calling it out as being a loaded question.

And I can easily envision (inexperiencedTown)!bob thinking that asking a specifically-phrased loaded question in an attempt to bait a scummy response, would be a valid strategy. (Not saying that I personally would recommend it, but still.)

I guess if scum team killed CDB to solidify Ausuka as deep wolf, it's kinda surprising that Egix decides to join skitter on an Ausuka bus on day 2 and rides it out through EoD. But it's kinda surprising that this push was so muted and underdeveloped that I kinda forgot it was on day 2.

Still, 1271 does sound a little bit like Ausuka doesn't want the wagon on her blowing up but doesn't want to fight skitter. 1270/1271/1272 is not the most S/S exchange ever

But if you think of Egix's reads, while he was wrong on Rui, he was right on Sasha and Ausuka. This is not his worst game as town, even if he gets lynched as town in lylo.

This is a feel good game. Everyone can be proud even though one team will lose.

[Detective Pikachu]

This day I will not be voting outside of the 6 players that lynched rui

Of those 6 i currently am reading exilion leaving. (below)

Egix96 , u r a person 2 , High Risk Gamble , Exilon , Ausuka , Sashaddin


One if not two of those are bound to be scum

I think

Exilion strong town lean
Egix slight town lean
Skitter slight town lean
inferno town lean
detective confirmed town by mod
gamr town

sach im scum reading
Aus scum read
urp2 sligh scum lean
HRG slight scum lean

mm after reading exilion recent iso I have decided

Ausuka remains a bad lynch today. Simple due to being better suited to day 4.

VOTE: exilion

What tipped it was exilion trying to set up gamma lynch should ausuka flip scum. Feels very much like bussing move


Also egix you convinced me with your offer to vote for urp2

Dude what if Bob was a visionary that lost his way?

1299 was at most wrong on three reads and possibly only wrong on two

[Detective Pikachu]

Wait no there's a chance 1299 is literally only wrong on Sash