Micro 868: Star-Crossed [Game Over]

[MaryJoLisa]

hi

[MaryJoLisa]

who is scum

I could go NK15 or Porkens.

Sorry Porkens, I'm not seeing the ejjinami push. I'm not hard-reading scum on her and I don't see her floundering around. Mind walking me through what you see?

[MaryJoLisa]

Oh and if you’re gonna post town-reads, don’t differentiate between the most and least townie ones. It should also make performing the NK harder and it doesn’t actually hurt the town in any way

I thought this was really good, pro-town advice helps to confuse scum. One of the first things I might have done was an ordered reads list, but what she said here is wise.

I can also make a little bit of a SR case for Donald Trump, but I'm not ready to push that wagon until i've sorted out whether what I think is regarding the character RP or the slot. It's so easy to scum-read someone called *Donald Trump* and I don't want to do that for the wrong reasons.

[MaryJoLisa]

Psyche, did you unvote to keep NK15 from being put to L-1, or did you change your mind on that player altogether?

[MaryJoLisa]

VOTE: donald
kill the roleplay alt

Some people don't read the rules and are a pain for the moderator. Maybe those people shouldn't be allowed to vote!

Took me a day to *get it* but this is a funny post.

[MaryJoLisa]

holy crap ejj has 40 posts

What is noteworthy about having 40 posts?

hi i'm rereading the thread

All votes on trump are lame and unoriginal btw

also wow haha offf the town bench

This is regarding an RVS vote. Is it the defensiveness you're picking up on?

Let me repeat the question, why aren't you voting where your reads are?
You shouldn't have any reasons to vote for DT rn

That you don't understand this is another sign that you are scum. The post you posted tells me that you are partners with DT. Which means you are

both

scum. I called you partners - what that means is obvious. This means that you are scum trying to find something you can name scummy.

this however, doesn't make sense
why would it be a sign that ejj is scum?

BTW, I could very clearly see how Ejjinami was giving off some big-time scum vibes with the entrance along with DT. I'm more inclined to think that the explanation of not understanding American politics is both true, and also a convenient tool to explain away the scumminess. But what bothers me here is that you weren't scum reading Ejj and then it seemed to take very little to change your mind and cast your vote on Ejj.

[MaryJoLisa]

I don't see the conflict.

[MaryJoLisa]

Post 62 Invisiblity is TRing ejjinami at this point.
Post 66 ejjinami makes what looks to me to be a compelling defense to the scum case on her.
Post 77 Invisibility says that he’s buying ejjinami’s authenticity.
Post 125 Invisibility starts SRing ejjinami.

I just want to understand better what changed here.

[MaryJoLisa]

3. what does this have to do with the segment you quoted

Sometimes I over prune my comments for clarity and grammatical errors so much that my main point gets trimmed away. Sorry about that.

When it was explained to me, I could see an Ejj and DT connection. I read your response to NK15’s comment as saying that you didn’t see things his way, but you switched your vote to ejj anyway. I think you answered the question by clarifying that you’re not scum reading her. You’re just not town reading her.

[MaryJoLisa]

I really hate the idea of voting for President Donald Trump. That was a really clever RP choice there, DT. People feel dirty for voting for you.

[MaryJoLisa]

Wait a minute! I've got it!

@President Donald Trump:

Please tell me why I should vote for you this day phase. You love votes! Use your amazing art of the deal talents to sell me on your vote. Tell me how you're the scummiest candidate! Tell me a vote for President Donald Trump will solve all of town's problems (or at least half of them.) Tell me women voters love you and support your vote and I should jump on your wagon because you're going to build a wall or put kids in cages or some shit like that.

Make Star-Crossed Great Again! Vote Trump for 868 D1!

[MaryJoLisa]

Wait a minute! I've got it!

@President Donald Trump:

Please tell me why I should vote for you this day phase. You love votes! Use your amazing art of the deal talents to sell me on your vote. Tell me how you're the scummiest candidate! Tell me a vote for President Donald Trump will solve all of town's problems (or at least half of them.) Tell me women voters love you and support your vote and I should jump on your wagon because you're going to build a wall or put kids in cages or some shit like that.

Make Star-Crossed Great Again! Vote Trump for 868 D1!

No.

Are you concerned that the polls are not in your favor? I'm going to be honest here, I'm also not so sure they are in your favor. I just don't think a vote for some dark horse person who is not known is going to clear the town of these scummy immigrants. Mini 868 needs your intelligence and your famous charisma to lead the way. Mr. Trump, with me as your campaign manager, I think we can turn that around before election day.

You can do this, Mr. Trump!

[MaryJoLisa]

Hi Lil Uzi Vert.

[MaryJoLisa]

Mary is defending ej. Ej is pretty clearly scum. Your unvote makes no sense.

I don't see how ejjinami/Lil Uzi Vert is clearly scum, but I'm not disinclined to put my vote there. I think the proper thing to do is to let the replace-in have some time to read the thread and think things over.

My campaign for Trump can wait until the next election if need be. My goal, as self-appointed campaign manager, is to put Mr. Trump in the Dead Thread. But if his constituents aren't feeling it, I can help him run again at another time. It's not like I'm *positive* that he'll be a good president. I mean there's always the possibility that we'll elect him and he'll prove to be a mad-man.

[MaryJoLisa]

Mary is defending ej. Ej is pretty clearly scum. Your unvote makes no sense.

I think the proper thing to do is to let the replace-in have some time to read the thread and think things over.

This

makes no sense.

I replaced into a game recently and I was lynched several hours after spending time trying to read the thread and catch up. It's was a super-douche move and it resulted in me having wasted my time. Give Lil Uzi some respectable time to read the game.

[MaryJoLisa]

Okay, fine. Feels a little dirty, though.

Lil Uzi, the case against you is simple: Your slot came in sounding scummy and defensive of Donald Trump, they made some counter arguments, and then they vanished. Now you must dance. I cannot deny that the vanishing act is a little scummy since they only vanished when people started calling them on it.

VOTE: Lil Uzi

[MaryJoLisa]

aaand we have two days so im gonna have to compromise wagon
VOTE: maryjo
why are we voting mary

My guess is that I jumped on Lil Uzi quickly. I gave a reason for not wanting to for a day or two, my logic was brushed off, and I figured with 3 days left on the clock and only one other vote on the slot, a little pressure wouldn't hurt. They're in no danger of being lynched without getting a word in edgewise.

[MaryJoLisa]

EBWOP: I gave a reason for not wanting to

vote for them

for a day or two,

but

my logic was brushed off.

[MaryJoLisa]

hi

Hi!

Heard a lot about you Mary Jo.

Oh. Let's just pretend that it was good things that you heard about me!

I'm good with putting a little pressure here and seeing where it goes.

VOTE: Invisibility

[MaryJoLisa]

@Mod, what happens if we're tied? Elsewhere on the forum, that means no lynch. Is the same true here?

[MaryJoLisa]

Okay, thanks.

[MaryJoLisa]

@Donald Trump, your NK wagon lacks

solid

any justification and you're not even pushing it too hard. I won't be placing my vote there today.

[MaryJoLisa]

I'm trying to figure out if all this OMGUSing should be playing into my reads.

[MaryJoLisa]

Porkens was one of my initial gut scum reads, and I'm coming back around to that line of thinking.

VOTE: Porkens

Is that L-1? I think it's L-1.

[MaryJoLisa]

Invis is at L-2. Pork at L-1. VERY UNFAIR!

I know, and i'm sorry about that. I tried to bring you to L-1 but you weren't helping your own campaign.

[MaryJoLisa]

@Mod

can we get an official vote count?

[MaryJoLisa]

@Mod

can we get an official vote count?

Maryjo if you could tell your partner one thing what would it be?

To pick up milk on the way home from work. We're out and I need it for coffee in the morning.

[MaryJoLisa]

I didn't realize we were at MYLO (still trying to figure out the difference between MYLO and LYLO).

I need to hear from Baezu. I'm not going to just vote the lurker automatically because I'm not sure how mafia would have colluded to get a NK through if one of the supposed scum was barely active at all. Unless it was just a lucky shot.

i'm going to comb though the thread today and try to find crumbs.

[MaryJoLisa]

(snipped)
I'm good with putting a little pressure here and seeing where it goes.

VOTE: Invisibility

maryjo what exactly where you trying to do when placing this vote?

LUV had made a list that indicated that you were his top scum pick and it matched my line of thought on you at the time. I thought you'd react to the vote and I'd be able to use your reaction to get a better feel for where you lie on my town to scum spectrum.

[MaryJoLisa]

I’m hearing about collusion between Trump and Invisibility and between Invisibility and Baezu. I’d thought I’d take a look at both sets of interactions and try to make a case for either pairing. I also noticed after writing this that NK15 suggested LUV and Baezu, so I'll look at that one too to see what I can glean from there.

Here’s what I think an Invisibility/Trump partnership might look like:

Spoiler:

Post 31 Invisibility votes for his partner, Donald Trump. That’s just distancing. According to Invisibility, RP alts suck.
Post 34 Trump redirects the team to ejjinami.
Post 39 Trump is clearly trying to take the lead on the team.
Post 46 Invisibility is suddenly okay with RP alts.
Post 53 Invisibility initiates a vote on psyche. Here, I think the team is just disagreeing on where the vote should be.
Post 112 Trump changes his daytime target from ejjinami to not known and in his vote, he’s acknowledging that ejjinami is a good vote. I think the message here is that Trump will push the NK15 wagon, and Invisibility should push the ejjinami wagon.
Post 120 Invisibility takes the time to defend against the possibility of having crumbed an NK target.
Post 132 Invisibility follows Trump and votes for ejjinami.
Post 134 Trump reaffirms that psyche is an acceptable target, but does not move his vote to psyche. I think this is the point where it’s decided that psyche should be the NK target.
Post 138 and post 141 I asked Invisibility some questions about why he suddenly switched his vote to ejjinami. Invisibility responds that he isn’t scum reading ejjinami, he’s only “not town reading” her. I suspect without a mafia PT to discuss in detail, he just hadn’t fully fleshed out a good cause for switching his vote.

***In hindsight, I can see that Invisibility’s ejjinami vote was about splitting up the wagons to see which one would bear fruit. Trump took NK and Invis took Ejjinami.

Post 151 Baezu votes Psyche which could be seen as being handy for scum.
Post 156 Invisibility asks, “Why psyche?” Baezu does not respond. Trump responds.
Post 158 Trump says psyche is a useless vote. I’m suggesting that Trump and Invisibility have already selected psyche for NK and they’re aiming for a different player in the day time.
Post 190 Psych places a vote on baezu. How convenient for scum.

***In Mafia101, we learned that vanity wagons are the best place to find scum. Except in this case, the vanity wagon was being driven by an absentee player who could reasonably have not checked in on the game. Baezu’s vanity wagon could be seen as a scapegoat to pin psyche’s NK on.

***The wagon leans a little toward Invisibility and then it moves over to Porkens.

Post 223 and post 224 Trump votes Porkens and then immediately switches to a vanity wagon on Not Known.

*** I don’t fully understand what is being signaled here, but this looks like some kind of signaling.

Post 226 Invisibility tells Trump to switch his vote to Porkens; the NK15 vote will not go through.
Post 251 Psyche votes Invisibility.
Post 252 Trump votes Invisibility bringing Invisibility to L-2 while Porkens is sitting at L-1.

***I don’t find this to be a particularly risky move because with three hours left on the clock and Trump monitoring the thread, he can unvote Invisibility if he goes to L-1 and place the hammer vote on Porkens. This move enables Trump to display his willingness to vote for Invis and his objection to voting for Townie Porkens.

Post 255, Post 256, Post 257 Invisibility appears to be genuinely disbelieving Trump’s audacity and urges him to take the vote on Porkens.

(Except Trump likes RPing and may very well be enjoying the pressure and staying in character while knowing full and well that he’s holding the cards.)

Post 267 Psyche votes the obvious choice to ensure the lynch goes through and Trump knew full and well that someone would come along to hammer Porkens.

*** I recognize that Trump’s suspicion of Baezu in D2 is very risky if he and Invisibility are scum partners because he’s essentially putting his partner next in the line of fire. But he if he’s scum with Invisibility and he can get a Baezu mislynch today, then they win the game. If he can’t get a Baezu mislynch, bussing his partner wouldn’t be bad for towncred and it’s exactly the kind of thing *Donald Trump* would do.

Now let’s see what an Invisibility/Baezu partnership might look like:

Spoiler:

Post 49 Baezu’s initial vote is for Invisibility (ignoring the typo for Individual). Distancing and acknowledging her partner.
Post 53 Invisibility votes for psyche. This would be RVS, but it looks to me like Invisibility is proposing a target.
Post 151 Baezu claims not to like either wagon and switches her vote to psyche, signaling to Invisibility where she wants the NK target to go.
Post 156 Psyche asks Baezu "why psyche".
Post 159 Invisibility votes Baezu which looks like distancing to me.
Post 190 Psyche scum reads Baezu making him a threat to this scum team if they didn’t think they could shake him through persuasion.
Post 204 and post 205 Invisibility votes Baezu again and six minutes later votes for Porkens. That was clearly not intended as a pressure vote. It was a distancing vote.

If there are errors in the work above, please correct them. I tried to double check everything but mistakes do happen. I'm not ready to place my vote, but I'm leaning toward Invisibility because he's the common denominator. Things seems to be revolving around him.

[MaryJoLisa]

Yeah, but I addressed that in my spoiler above. Take a look at posts 253 - 257. I think it could have been a power move for DT and Invisibility's panic looked genuine. He was speaking directly to Trump. He wasn't saying, "you should vote for Porkens because..." He was more or less saying, "What are you doing?? This was not the plan!"

[MaryJoLisa]

This are the teams I am considering(not in order of relevance!):

Invisibility - DT
Invisibility - Baezu
Invisibility - LUV
LUV - Baezu

I looked at Invisibility/LUV, but I found absolutely nothing there. I didn't find much with LUV/Baezu either, so I'm going to need you to walk me through what you saw that made you suspicious.

I did look at Trump and LUV and I can see some possible collusion between these two. As before, if you see something in this that looks wrong, please let me know.

Spoiler:

Post 24 This one is suspect from ejjinami. The Trump defense was noted later in day 1. Even if ejjinami misunderstood the individual 1 post, the cover she provides for Trump is quite apparent.

Post 34 Trump places a vote on ejjinami which could be taken as distancing following the defensive move.

Post 35 No one really paid attention to this post but Trump has just voted for ejjinami in the previous post and now he’s saying that he’s okay with bussing his partner *or* he’s saying that he’s going to to appear to be bussing her, but that’s just a maneuver and she should disregard what it appears to be. Looks to me like he’s building distance between the two of them.

Post 37 Trump is telling ejjinami that he wants her to take his lead.

Post 65 and post 66 ejjinami realizes that she built a connection between she and Trump and now she’s back tracking to fix the damage.

Post 109 I come along and I’m like, derp, derp, derp, ejjinami sounds town.

Post 111 and post 112 Trump compliments my read on ejjinami and switches his vote to Not Known. It was me that established justification for him to switch his vote.

Post 134 Trump lays down the Psyche crumb.

Post 166 Lil Uzi Vert comes in with a friendly “Hey guys”

Post 194 LUV acknowledges a Psyche NK ??

Post 201 Trump’s gimmick amuses LUV, so Trump can live for now.

I don’t see collusion between LUV and Trump in the D1 final lynch vote, but if you consider the possibility that Trump didn’t particularly care whether Porkens or Invisibility was lynched, then it makes sense for him to put his vote on Invisibility so he and his partner, LUV, were on separate wagons but still pushed a lynch through.

[MaryJoLisa]

Why do I feel like people keep calling Baezu "he" when the player has female pronouns?

[MaryJoLisa]

Nobody else looked at this, right? Otherwise the reactions make no sense.

What do you mean? I did see that you made that post and it resonated with me, but it didn't feel like the silver bullet. Maybe walk me through it?

[MaryJoLisa]

Replying to

@Not Known 15

: Let’s start with Lil Uzi’s untouched list.

Invisibility

President Donald Trump

MaryJoLisa

Baezu
Porkens

Psyche

Not Known 15

Trump can live for now since his gimmick amuses me. I heard good things about Mary Jo so she can be reevaluated tomorrow.

Now let’s reset the list and cross out only the people who Lil Uzi says are not good lynch candidates in post 201. Baezu also crossed off because you're suggesting an Uzi/Baezu connection.

Invisibility

President Donald Trump

MaryJoLisa

Baezu

Porkens
Psyche
Not Known 15

Ok Jesus look I’m town my intro
But I think nk is town, and I respect their reads, so That swayed me away from ej hence my mj read goes away and luv just cant read me.

Replacing out is NAI.

Why is NK15 town?

I don’t like either of these wagons
VOTE: psyche

Psyche can be town.

Why is Psyche scum?

If you’re seeing a connection between Baezu and Uzi, then what I see here is that Baezu proposed a wagon or NK for Psyche but Uzi rejected it. So then why wouldn’t a different NK target have been proposed? Are you saying that Uzi is calling people town to indicate that they’re acceptable NKs? But then Uzi asked Bazeu a direct question about Psych that was never answered and yet the NK for Psyche still went through. So if Uzi was communicating with Baezu and didn't get a response about Psych, and he stated that he was satisfied with an NK on you, then an updated list might look more like this:

Invisibility

President Donald Trump

MaryJoLisa

Baezu

Porkens
Psyche

Not Known 15

After Porkens was lynched that still leaves Invisibility and Psyche and from my POV Uzi's dismissal of you as a potential NK wasn't very strong.

[MaryJoLisa]

I'm backing off the Trump campaign for a bit. I can't entirely tell if Trump is forcing that subtle conversation to work through some kind of cherry picking or if that really is an excellent catch on Invisibility and Baezu. For right now, I'm feeling it. Invis is in no danger of being lynched by my placement vote, so I'm going to go ahead and lay this down.

VOTE: Invisibility

Maybe if we could hear from Baezu and Uzi?

[MaryJoLisa]

I did look at Trump and LUV and I can see some possible collusion between these two. As before, if you see something in this that looks wrong, please let me know.

Spoiler:

Post 24 This one is suspect from ejjinami. The Trump defense was noted later in day 1. Even if ejjinami misunderstood the individual 1 post, the cover she provides for Trump is quite apparent.

Post 34 Trump places a vote on ejjinami which could be taken as distancing following the defensive move.

Post 35 No one really paid attention to this post but Trump has just voted for ejjinami in the previous post and now he’s saying that he’s okay with bussing his partner *or* he’s saying that he’s going to to appear to be bussing her, but that’s just a maneuver and she should disregard what it appears to be. Looks to me like he’s building distance between the two of them.

Post 37 Trump is telling ejjinami that he wants her to take his lead.

Post 65 and post 66 ejjinami realizes that she built a connection between she and Trump and now she’s back tracking to fix the damage.

Post 109 I come along and I’m like, derp, derp, derp, ejjinami sounds town.

Post 111 and post 112 Trump compliments my read on ejjinami and switches his vote to Not Known. It was me that established justification for him to switch his vote.

Post 134 Trump lays down the Psyche crumb.

Post 166 Lil Uzi Vert comes in with a friendly “Hey guys”

Post 194 LUV acknowledges a Psyche NK ??

Post 201 Trump’s gimmick amuses LUV, so Trump can live for now.

I don’t see collusion between LUV and Trump in the D1 final lynch vote, but if you consider the possibility that Trump didn’t particularly care whether Porkens or Invisibility was lynched, then it makes sense for him to put his vote on Invisibility so he and his partner, LUV, were on separate wagons but still pushed a lynch through.

This was my Trump/LUV collusion investigation report that I issued to town several days ago. I see that Mr. Trump's team has redacted much of what I said and scrubbed it so much that his "summary" in 334, accuses innocent town of his collusion. Mr. Trump did not even allow one of the accused to stand before congress to testify before he seized power and issued his executive order to execute Invisibility on the spot.

I'm good with a Trump vote and I'm also good with a LUV vote. It would be a shame to let yet another staffer take the fall for the man in charge, but I can agree that guilty is guilty no matter how high on the pecking order they may be. If it's easier to get through the red tape by nabbing an underling, at least we send the message that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated in town!

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

[MaryJoLisa]

Talking mostly to you Mary Jo. I just seen you on.

UNVOTE:

On mobile. We can discuss later.

[MaryJoLisa]

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

[MaryJoLisa]

If it's not over with this, we go for Trump next.

[MaryJoLisa]

GG everyone! ChibiBear, I had a lot of fun this game and you should run this setup again in the future. Thanks for hosting.

[MaryJoLisa]

Thank you. This was a really hard game for me!

[MaryJoLisa]

Well, I enjoyed playing with you all. LUV, it was nice to meet you. Psyche and Porkens, you scared the shit out of me (in a good, mafia kind of way).

I had a good time and the game was very challenging.

[MaryJoLisa]

Still don’t know how we coordinated on psyche

I thought you told me very clearly to vote for Psych, and I also thought you cued me to vote for Trump N2.

Post 62 Invisiblity is TRing ejjinami at this point.
Post 66 ejjinami makes what looks to me to be a compelling defense to the scum case on her.
Post 77 Invisibility says that he’s buying ejjinami’s authenticity.
Post 125 Invisibility starts SRing ejjinami.

I just want to understand better what changed here.

Liking where my vote is

I'd never have thought to vote for Psyche. I don't even know the guy. I thought this was a clever way to convey the order because the post appeared to be about Invisibility, but your vote was actually on Psyche.

what is your point with the individual thing
we would know who we were if we were partners wouldn’t we?

Yes

trump

please explain

About to get on a

plane

, will

comb

thread thoroughly tonight

I thought you were saying Trump, and you were reinforcing with Trumpy things like a "plane" and "comb."

[MaryJoLisa]

*Oh, NK not "vote".

[MaryJoLisa]

from here it looked rlly obvious i should've made more noise about it i guess!

What part was really obvious?

[MaryJoLisa]

baezu intentioning my deadness

Oh yeah, I was kind of paranoid that would come to light after the fact. A couple of times I nearly changed my NK because I thought it was *too* obvious, but I figured Baezu knew what she was doing and had a plan to deal with that.

[MaryJoLisa]

GG everyone! ChibiBear, I had a lot of fun this game and you should run this setup again in the future. Thanks for hosting.

Yeah this setup has a lot of potential for interesting play, plus it's simpler than average to run due to the lack of power roles and PTs to manage!

The setup I loved. for me personally, I'm learning that I prefer the open setups and I also like mountainous games so this was a good fit.

If you run this game again, the only tweak I'd recommend is that you to make the night phase one day instead of two because no one is interacting at all during the night time.