Death Note: The Task Force

[Chara]

yes, the death note holder nominates the team, and then we vote on if we like the team or not. if we don't, the Note goes to the next person in line.
and remember, even if we get through all three successful missions, Kira still wins if they guess who L is at the very end. so don't make it easier for them by hinting at your role and allowing them to PoE it out. we have to get three of the missions successful

and

hide L.
and also avoid passing a mission where Light holds the Death Note. that's another way to lose.
we also win if Matsuda shoots Kira, though. so if i'm understanding, both sides essentially have an auto-win that's possible to achieve even with mission successes/fails for their side.

[Chara]

I think everyone should give an RVS list of the 3 players they want to send.

Sure sure.

{Chara, insomnia, HRG.}

i'd prefer if Baezu didn't go.
insomnia i like.
TLK i also like for task force.


and yes, absolutely no claiming. this game doesn't have a lynch mechanic, so it isn't necessary, anyway.

[Chara]

Chito: yeah now that I'm processing the setup task force nominations is the equivalent of rvs, except we're townhunting rather thanscumhunting. Setup is in the ballpark of coalition in that sense.

Since stk knows his own alignment he'll want to nominate himself right? I'd support stk, insomnia, and myself.

Gamble why do you want baezu before she has posted?

could also go with this team. on gut i like insomnia and C and Y. ideally i would like a mixture of those two plus TLK and myself for the first mission.

[Chara]

does this game have a system for too many rejected missions being bad, like resistance/avalon?

[Chara]

thanks Penguin.

mod: does the veto counter reset when we move on to the next mission?

[Chara]

that's the way it's worded and how it works in the other games, but there's no harm in being sure.

[Chara]

i'm not sure what someone's role really has to do with their alignment in this case, when it comes to deciding who to put on a mission. just figuring out who is task force is enough. even individually, i don't see what we gain from figuring out what specific sort of task force anyone is. unless you have information on who Kira might be to the point it's worth outing that you have that information so Matsuda can shoot, for example. but that's an edge case to me.

[Chara]

I do think that the veto counter resets for each mission. I don't see why not. But 5 is kind of high. I think normally it takes 3 vetoes per mission to get a fail. I've talked myself into thinking it could be different.

@Boon do the vetoes reset each new mission?

in all the versions i've played, reaching 5 vetoes was an automatic loss for the good faction, not just a mission fail.

but why ask the same question i'd already asked? :>

[Chara]

ok, what about STK, insomnia and Chiro hydra?

singleton doesn't need to be on the mission just because he's the first Note holder, especially if the veto counter resets. he has no posts so there's no information on if he's a good choice yet.
obviously that will change, though.

[Chara]

TLK, i think if it's ever possible for the town to have a good idea of what some of the other town have as roles, scum would then have an even better idea. if i was ever figuring out more than a couple town roles of others, i would be pretty worried about our chances. :>

[Chara]

you're missing something. we autolose if scum guesses who L is at the end regardless of whether we win the missions or not.

[Chara]

L knows who all of the scum are. he could easily say "so and so and so are all scum, keep them off missions", but he cannot do so because it would reveal who he is, causing him to be killed at the end and resulting in our loss.
and that's why i've been telling everyone not to claim this whole time, because claiming who you are narrows down scum's options when trying to figure out who L is.

[Chara]

why does Matsuda target the inno? there's no way to tell if the inno is false.

[Chara]

also, we may both have instant win scenarios, but our odds are lopsided. Matsuda has to pick between 8 players to try and shoot Kira. the Kira team has to pick between only 6 players when trying to find L. and only 5 if anyone decides to claim. even less if scum are able to puzzle out anyone who definitely isn't L via information they choose to share. the odds are much too high even if scum just guesses, so i'm in no hurry to make it easier.
i believe this game is about using the information you have to make informed decisions, without letting on that you have it.

[Chara]

actually, i'm wrong on the odds. the Kira players don't know who their Shinigami is...
that is, unless Soichiro guilties the Shinigami publicly.

it's a very fun setup, really. i just believe it's absolutely packed with pitfalls.

[Chara]

i don't think you're correct because we shouldn't be treating the Soichiro inno as town anyway, nor blindly sending them on missions. there's only one mission after the fourth one, so those "shenanigans" don't have much of an effect. the insurance isn't good if the damage is already done before the insurance takes effect.
i don't think there's a good reason for Soichiro to claim an inno if he does get one.
i'm not opposed to planning, but i think it's a better idea to do so after at least one mission when we have information.

i also don't believe this setup has a breaking strategy, as i imagine Boonskiies designed it with avalon/secret hitler strategies in mind. with some mafia flair.

i'd be fine with singleton/insomnia/me for a first mission.
i'm less warm on Chito because i'm concerned about 54. it could be a case of misreading the rules and also not reading all of the posts that say don't claim and why that is, but it could also be fake. better safe than sorry. the better we do from the beginning, the more chances we have to screw up and wiggle room we have later.

[Chara]

i'm also skeptical of the support for singleton before singleton had actually posted.

[Chara]

right... thanks again.

insomnia: do you have an opinion on me, or just something general to say about how scum talks mechanics?

i'm pretty happy with singleton for town based on how he approached things. at first i felt the opposite because he went right for a breaking strategy, and i still don't actually agree with the approach, but i do think it's likely task force.

Penguin, do you have any reads?

on breaking strategies in general: i really doubt there is one. morality is a better mod than that.

[Chara]

i don't know if it's locked, but i agree i'd like to avoid Baezu on missions.
but why is that?

pedit: hm, i could see why. i don't exactly like that he keeps going for breaking strategies instead of reads. regardless of alignment i don't think it's a good idea.

[Chara]

so, what i've heard so far is... "Chara is being towny and helpful. if things go wrong, blame them because it must be scum."
kind of a kick in the pants really.

[Chara]

. Given that you switched how you understood the odds a few times in this same sequence of posts, and that the setup I think is genuinely a lot to take in, why would you think that I would be faking that question?

i made a mistake on the odds because of reading one Shinigami and then mistaking thinking both traitors worked in the same way.
i think it's entirely possible it was a mistake (it is easy to make, i also missed some things) but like i said at the time, better safe than sorry when it comes to first mission assignment.
the reason i brought it up was because myself and other players kept stressing the importance of not claiming, so it seemed like you hadn't read those posts.

i don't know how i feel about it now, i do like your recent posts.

[Chara]

i like Chito, TLK, and Penguin for a mission right now. Penguin i'm most tentative on because most of his posting had just been objectively right, but i also have a bad habit of scumreading him unnecessarily.

[Chara]

the investigative roles don't give a complete picture of who scum is for a reason. do you really think Morality didn't take a massclaim into account during design?
i started to explain why this is a bad idea before i realized i would be giving scum a roadmap of how best to counterclaim anything should it come up.

not to mention, i don't want to play a game like that. i think we'll just lose, but even if we get lucky and it works, it sounds like a boring and rote way to go down a list and mechanically put in actions and votes. you barely have to think.

[Chara]

just because you'd like to go for attempting to gamebreak doesn't mean the rest of us are obligated to go along with it, singleton. you asked for opinions and you got them.

[Chara]

Chito: you're misunderstanding how Ryuk's power works. he can only xhange one vote for success or fail, from one player, to the opposite, so he can only affect missions after their members have been decided and voting is happening.

[Chara]

just because you'd like to go for attempting to gamebreak doesn't mean the rest of us are obligated to go along with it, singleton. you asked for opinions and you got them.

to add to this: telling us to stop disagreeing with you while you get to keep disagreeing with us is unfair. i don't want to play the game like that and i don't think it's possible. i signed up to play resistance mafia, not to a numbers game where i don't get to play.

Chito: do you have any ideas on who you would put on the first mission?

[Chara]

i've done that in games irl when i knew my team would not be passed were i on it.

[Chara]

i still think single is town here.
132 bothers me but i don't know how to best explain why. the "deep wolf in my townreads" i don't like, seems like a pretty big statement considering we've just started, and the rest of the post also doesn't deal with any actual hunting.

[Chara]

it's not an autowin...

[Chara]

it's like... it's sort of like how if you're playing the irl version, and forcing everyone to flip their cards is "auto-win". i know there's a rule against it, but same idea.

if you don't want to play the game, why are you here? you could argue it's the mod's fault for it maybe being breakable, but...

i don't know if it's an autowin or not. the choices are apparently try the attempt and not get to play,

regardless

of if it works in order to see if it would or not, or ignore the attempt and then be "ignoring the autowin".
so. whatever. i wanted to play the game Morality spent time making.

[Chara]

i can't prove it wouldn't work because there are too many claiming variables. math isn't my thing. the only way to prove it would be trying it, which ruins the game anyway.

[Chara]

mod: v/la this weekend!

i should still be around, however.

[Chara]

I don't want singletonking on the team. Chara and TLK is fine.

i think single is town, but i don't mind avoiding him for safety's sake. like TLK, obviously like myself to go. my only other pick besides singleton would be insomnia.

[Chara]

i believe singleton can vote for this phase too.

[Chara]

VOTE: pass

[Chara]

oh, i misunderstood. i thought 5 votes were needed altogether.

[Chara]

i'm vetoing any mission i'm not on. also will get to this later today with real reads. still townreading TLK, i haven't seen any reason to reconsider, only affirmations.
Penguin is also a player i like for a mission.

[Chara]

i don't mind it being slow, i'm just glad things are moving in a game sort of way.
VOTE: pass
Chito was the first one to bring up feeling disillusioned by the gamebreaking and i think scum would be more hesitant to do so in the way Chito approached it. (not AtE exactly, but i hope that communicates what i mean.) though i can't remember if i complained about lack of drive before or after Chito, considering how i was feeling at the time i think it's towny.

need to digest singleton's TLK scumread. i don't think i agree with it either way.

[Chara]

i've been playing this whole time. game stalled while we were waiting for you to start talking team comp. you did, stuff happened, i wanted to post. i don't find it weird Chito started to post either when things concerning their slot happened.

[Chara]

singleton vetoed their own mission, too. pick one you're confident in so we can get this game going. we're not going to learn anything either way until we actually send a team. if you don't think town will be happy to be on a mission just like scum are, then you aren't think about this game properly.

[Chara]

if we keep vetoing, Penguin will get the mission pick. i'm actually fine with that, but are you? Baked Nips is also the next death note holder, are you fine with his mission? are you fine with mine?

[Chara]

i do think town is more likely than scum to veto their own missions, and i still townread insomnia and singleton, though singleton moreso. i

don't

think it's a good idea to waste your death note holder opportunities and hand them to players you don't trust (players that aren't yourself.)

[Chara]

If it’s a fail, Buggles is scum, calling shots OwO

this is the sort of thing i wouldn't call until after we see the mission results and any scum pick their choice.

[Chara]

thanks Penguin.

mod: does the veto counter reset when we move on to the next mission?

and then I look at this. solid talk in the beginning regarding mechanics and then this just looks like a question for town cred. it's like common sense and you have experience with the setup apparently.

uh, yeah. i know.

that's the way it's worded and how it works in the other games, but there's no harm in being sure.

next post.

[Chara]

i told myself before the mission that i'm more sure in Chito town than insomnia. i still think that given Chito's reaction to the breaking from singleton, and how i think scum approach this setup in order to get on missions.

[Chara]

i suppose insomnia's trying to break his own mission is town indicative. but if singleton's town and already did that i don't know how informative that would be.
and i could just be misreading Chito, but i expect at least one scum is going powertown, too. Chito didn't get on the mission with scum help if they're scum, since the proponents of town Chito were me and insomnia if i remember right.

[Chara]

Reading the ~tone~ I also think you're all uncomfortable with my slot which means this is hardmode

I need four real strong townreads and so far I have

two

i'm even more uncomfortable with how you've attempted to make the scumread on me seem like a very advanced thought, while the read itself boils down to "Chara hasn't brought its town ferocity, it only seems like it has". i want to know what you mean by this and what you know about my scumgame in more detail.

but what really bothers me is you managed that entire catchup without giving any indication you wanted to interact with me. maybe the scumread was that attempt, but given all you've done is apply meta very vaguely that my game right now isn't good enough to be my towngame, there isn't much discussion to be had.
you mentioned that i would agree with you on this point, actually. why is that?

also, why do you think Chito is town now?

[Chara]

i don't see a Chito/insomnia team because i have't found anything that looks like signaling. i also believe it's a stronger move for scum to be the only scum on the first mission, because it gives exactly one more option for taking the fall for the mission failing.

[Chara]

i should stop skimming catchups, starting with not missing the entirety of page 17.
and knowing Chito is Krazy is something. it also explains the worst's townread that formed there with this entire interaction i didn't read.

[Chara]

My understanding of your scumgame is *mostly* from your hydra marathon with Almost50. Your earlier posting was sound and critical and looked towny enough but had a missing depth which is discernibly different from your towngame. Do you think that assessment is unfair?

it's not unfair.

i'm also kind of uncomfortable pointing out which of my posts here i think are out of my scumrange, because it feels rather self-aggrandizing to do so in such an explicit way. the main difference would be in that marathon my posting around my own feelings felt very stilted to me, and by the end of the game i was leaving most of the posting to Almost as i was afraid of giving myself away. as town i have no reason to hold off on a post, and as scum i do so often. but in spite of that i think i'm really hard to activity tell, because i'll get lazy unless town is about to lose, at which point i would go all in.
as for wanting to interact with me, i'm just surprised you came up with such a strong scumread without doing so first. i know you just said your reads are in flux, so it may not be as strong as i'd thought, but that's how i felt upon reading it.

[Chara]

There's no reason for me not to solve the dichotomy and go for another completely new variable that I have no information on. I'm picking a team BASED on information from the first mission. You trying to make me search where I don't have clues is iffy.

i thought BNS picked this team. i don't see you saying anywhere that Chara should be on this mission over Chito.

[Chara]

Oops sorry if I'm interrupting your method. We can interact later if that's easier.

haha, the two conversations are unrelated, it's fine.

and as for thoughts on your entrance, i'm sort of already townreading you. which is bad because i always townread you. i just think it's a bad entrance for scum worst to show up and scumread me when he knows how that would go, and it fits better with the scum insomnia town Chito world i'm looking at right now.

too bad there are like 5 other players in this game and two of em are on the current mission.
and speaking of
VOTE: veto
the next mission is mine.

[Chara]

i got distracted writing that, i also wanted to say that i liked your Chito turnaround and conversation with them. and the explanation for the read on me.

[Chara]

it'll have to be later, i have to go to work. but it is nice to see you, apologies for not saying so earlier.

[Chara]

were lock scum. We think there is one scum between Chara and Insomnia, but not both of them. We’re tryna find out which, best way to do that is make em fail a mission. Theres also other Resistance style strategies I’m implementing here, but I don’t wanna let my secrets loose and let scum know what I’m trying to do so you’ll just have to trust me on this, I know the game.
-Dil Lebbie

how does putting both of us on the mission tell you which one is scum..? if it fails, how do you tell who failed it.

[Chara]

i've also played a good deal of resistance, and when trying to figure out something between two players, you have to separate them between mission/no mission.

[Chara]

excuse me if this is wrong, but if we fail this second mission, can't Ryuk just auto-fail the third?

[Chara]

right, so if Ryuk is the shinigami of this game, losing this second mission is the same as an instant loss. so there's no room for testing anybody.

[Chara]

so, i have some slots to fill. not interested in testing insomnia or Chito as there's a 50% chance we lose immediately if this mission fails.

i want to take the worst, and i like singleton and TLK for town as well. that's four including me.
but i'll see why the worst is townreading Baezu and if TLK could be scum who's just playing in a way i like, first.

[Chara]

i also haven't really examined in detail who's proposed what, which is the sort of busywork i don't want to do but is probably useful.

[Chara]

ahh, i was using the wrong list order. oh well.

[Chara]

Tw, is it true what someone was saying about a role being able to switch a pass for a fail which would make us lose?

I'm the wrong player to ask mech questions ;^; brb

i'm the someone, and while i couldn't even keep the list of who was the holder next straight, i haven't seen anything that says that couldn't happen if we fail here.

i'd obviously prefer myself over Chito in this next team proposal, but i would also be extremely surprised if Chito actually proposed that, for the same reason i don't want them in it.

[Chara]

on reread he's not as informed as Rem which means he's not quite as deadly as I thought (insta-loss) but I guess scum could just claim on d3 and get him to use his ability on someone eouch

either way yeeeaaa we need an all town mission or we are in trouble

on my meaning, Ryuk doesn't need to know who the scum are for this to work. he can see the submitted success/fail cards, and switch one. if they're all successes, he can still switch it to a fail and we lose.

[Chara]

*on my reading.

[Chara]

What makes you think Chito isn’t town?

because a 50% chance of being scum is too high, even if i scumread insomnia?

[Chara]

Bc the way I see it is if we have another fail, the death note can be given to someone to prevent a third fail, so town hadn’t lost but I could be missing something...

i think you're missing something. it doesn't matter who proposes the team, Ryuk can effect the third or fourth mission no matter what.

[Chara]

What makes you think Chito isn’t town?

because a 50% chance of being scum is too high, even if i scumread insomnia?

From the perspective of someone who knows 0 alignments on the failed mission this is tougher. sorry.

How are your reads weighted atm?

i think you misunderstood me. i'm not trying to convince you i should be on the next mission proposal. Chito as the Death Note, and they're picking.
i was saying from my perspective i don't want Chito in. you don't know i'm town so you don't have that perspective.

i'm fairly confident in you town and TLK town. no read on Penguin. insomnia i got bad feelings from in how he pivoted his reads and explained himself after passing that mission from Baked Nips, the fervor was only there after you questioned him and the initial "sure this is cool even if i'm paranoid" doesn't match, to me, the later explanation of it being to test one of the people from the first mission.
i don't know how to feel about Baked Nips, but the feelings got worse after the last mission proposal. Baezu i can kind of see for town but she also makes me nervous because i want to avoid gambles, and she feels like one.

[Chara]

So then what’s the use of the power to choose the death note holder?

if we can choose the next holder, we can circumvent a situation where scum is the holder for a certain mission after teams have been vetoed four times. since the fifth time would be an auto-fail, we would have no choice but the pass the mission scum picked. even with an outed scum Death Note holder there would be no way to avoid sending their team out.
i know i explained this confusingly so if anyone can explain it better please do so.

[Chara]

i want to take the worst, and i like singleton and TLK for town as well. that's four including me.

This was your mission proposal, I think. If achievable I'd like to avoid taking anyone from the first mission..if I did take someone, it'd have to be someone I townread (Chito alone atm)

we can't avoid the first mission

and

two players from the failed mission. there wouldn't be enough left without hitting an inevitably scum.

but i see your point. that's why i was trying to figure out who to trust from my gut proposal.

and i thought you townread Baezu?

[Chara]

But we only have one of ren/ryuk in the game right?

yes, it's one or the other.

[Chara]

i thought you were saying that Chito was your only townread, but now i see it was that Chito is the only player you townread from the failed mission.

[Chara]

i want to take the worst, and i like singleton and TLK for town as well. that's four including me.

This was your mission proposal, I think. If achievable I'd like to avoid taking anyone from the first mission..if I did take someone, it'd have to be someone I townread (Chito alone atm)

I agree with tw on this chara

it's a weird sort of annoyance to have to explain that i

get

it, and also that i'm not going to refrain from proposing that i go on missions when i know i'm town, even if i know from an outside point of view the numbers aren't good to be grabbing from the failed mission.

[Chara]

Chara is another person I'm looking for some scumrange breaking content from. :c so far it doesn't feel like its as 'all in' as town!Chara usually does.

half of me wants to prove you wrong, half of me is just tired of maintaining my townread-as-town record since it was broken recently.
are you sure you aren't selectively remembering very memorable moments of me as town and thinking that i have to uphold that at all times? that sounds so exhausting, there's no way i could.

[Chara]

I honestly think that there was only one bad guy on the field mission because if there were two we probably would have seen two fails

since scum have daytalk, there could easily have been two scum that just coordinated their votes. i just don't think it's likely because i don't scumread Chito and because having two possible town to blame is a little easier than having only one.

[Chara]

I am to an extent! The shadow of scum!Chara loiters at the back of my memory...and while I don't necessarily expect you to come in like a hurricane, I don't think I've seen anything that makes me go "aww yes that's town!Chara", if that makes sense?

Telling you what I'm looking for would be highly counter productive but I don't expect you to live in the thread powertowning and break 1k posts or anything like that.

i can't believe i'm being BoPed with my shit winrate. at least let me get to some notoriety first.

that's sort of a joke. but only sort of.
you don't need to tell me what you're looking for, i already know. i'm usually fairly townread in general because i'm easy to talk to and i say things that make sense. i'm not combative and i make little mistakes sometimes that make me seem more honest.
that's true in my scum and my towngames. but as town i'm never afraid to speak and i can freely talk about any of my thoughts without needing to hide them. as scum i have no such freedom so i have to be constantly checking what i've said in the past so i don't say something contradictory. i also hate AtEing as scum so i avoid doing so whenever possible, while as town i have no such qualms since i'm only being honest, and i check myself so i don't say something toxic.

that's my entire impression of my own meta in a nutshell.

i can't expect you to know all of this about me, but i would rather you actually read my play in

this

game and not wait for a towntell that might not come because you don't have a complete understanding of the difference between my town and scumgames.

[Chara]

Penguin i don't think has done anything scummy, and has been helpful in clarifying rules and making points. that said, his contributions have remained mostly mechanical and when he does give reads they're farther between. i'd want to see more of the thoughts behind those reads and more of an opinion on who goes on the teams before i could say he's town or not.

[Chara]

pedit: Chara, I am assessing your play here as best as I can. I have some idea of the difference in your meta but not a great idea. Do you think you've towntold within the context of your meta? What do you think I should be looking for? :c

i don't mind you assessing my play and coming away with a scumread, it's the meta that's bothering me, especially when you say you don't have a great idea of the differences. you just say i don't look like i'm out of my range.

and i can't tell you more than i just did.

[Chara]

sort of went how i thought. i did think insomnia was more likely scum than Chito but it also didn't seem like there was anything i could do to get Chito off the mission.
i think changing the 5 vetoes from a failed mission to a lost game for town would go a long way.

[Chara]

also all of my proposed missions were all-town, fight me.