Gameshow Mafia (Reroll): Game Over

[Moongrass]

Hi.

Working, thoughts later.

[Moongrass]

Reveal looks like a good choice as we end up with confirmed town or scum. It would clearly work better as a means to confirm a more controversial player, I wonder if it's too soon though?

[Moongrass]

I thought JohnnyEnglish was meant to be funny.

[Moongrass]

On second thought, 1 of 4 seems ideal.

[Moongrass]

Can you please explain how overkill is lock scum?

[Moongrass]

I have to say that your (Ank) associatives with fuscia weren't great.

[Moongrass]

Ank it's nothing solid yet just a vibe I had when comparing fusc's interactions with others.

[Moongrass]

So the scum I found are Td and Overkill based on position in the dance and VCA. I say we do a coalition with our strong towncores. If/when that doesn't work we veto with over and tl plus two of the coalition that are the most meh then try again. If that doesn't work still we lynch ok, lynch td, 1 of 4 and start lynching our way through that 1 of 4

Tmck that sounds overly complex.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: Coalition

[Moongrass]

themilkcartonkid
NanceFloor
Chennis
Taly
Skygazer
Titus
Ankamius
RadiantCowbells
--------
Creature
MariaR
Clemency
Chemist1422
TimeDevil

[Moongrass]

Could swap Ank and RC for myself and maria.

[Moongrass]

You need to decide who's scum in that group if it fails.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: Nancefloor, tmck, ank, RC, sky, Creature, Maria, Clemency

I'm worried about Ank, RC, Clemency and Creature. The rest I agree with.

[Moongrass]

I’m waffling on you again. Hated your early posts but like your coalition. Your entrance pinged me - questioned Ank’s Overki11 read, then immediately segued to her alleged “associatives” with Fuscosco. Then you wanted 1 of 4. None of that reads townie to me.

I'm not the type to defend myself however I do feel like this is an unfair representation based on..I'm not sure what.

I replaced into an obvious villa slot over 3000 posts in. I don't believe it's fair to expect me to solve the game on my entrance, or think it's rational to think a town replacement should have a town-like entrance. I questioned the overkill read because I genuinely wanted to understand which slots the town were focussing on. Ftr I agree with the scum reads there.

I chose 1 of 4 because from my uninformed pov, it's easier to find scum in 4 rather than have to read everbody's ISOs, I even said it could be a little early to play that card.

I read the first scum ISO and found that I wasn't a fan of the way fusc seemed to communicate more comfortably with ank than other players, particularly ones he was interacting with who have already flipped town.

I don't really care if you read me as town but if you can't see that mbaki was town then I can't really help you nor feel confident with your reads.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: milk, sky, RC, Creature, nancefloor, ank, chemist, Clemency.

Tmck what do you mean by a wolf RC = a deep wolf team?

[Moongrass]

Upper PoE:
Maria
Chemist
Clem
Chenn

Do you not know your own alignment?

[Moongrass]

It would be more useful if you gave your own ideas.

[Moongrass]

I actually think it's possible that TD is not scum and we do have a deepwolf. I have a few picked out

Feeling this.

[Moongrass]

I'd prefer RC to Maria but would prefer neither.

[Moongrass]

I feel better about Creature.

[Moongrass]

Feel better about RC too.

[Moongrass]

Still dislike Chemist and Clemency. I'm not sold on Maria town.

[Moongrass]

boop the snoot

My PoE is Ank, Chemist, Clemency, Maria, 0verkill.

[Moongrass]

Vote Count 1.2.18

Fuscosco

(9): mbaki, RadiantCowbells, NanceFloor, OkaPoka, BrightEyedFish, themilkcartonkid, JohnnyEnglish, Fuscosco, Ankamius

(LYNCH)

BrightEyedFish (3): chennisden, 0verki11, Fuscosco
mbaki (1): Titus
themilkcartonkid (1): Chemist1422
0verki11 (1): Clemency

Not Voting (2): Creature, Taly

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 to eliminate a player.

Mod notes:
The votes in 2119 and 2148 are invalid as a majority has been already achieved.

On mobile so you'll have to excuse the lack of EOD VC.

Fuscosco was eliminated. They were a...

Spoiler:

Mafia Goon

And...

Spoiler:

NOT

the 8-ball!

Mafia may not kill tonight. The night will end in (expired on 2019-04-28 16:00:00).

End of Fusco wagon is suspicious.

Vote Count 2.2.10

OkaPoka/BrightEyedFish (9): Time Devil, chennisden, Titus, RadiantCowbells, Skygazer, NanceFloor, Clemency, Ankamius, themilkcartonkid
Creature/Chemist1422 (2): OkaPoka, 0verki11
Ankamius/Clemency (1): JohnnyEnglish
chennisden/Titus (1): BrightEyedFish
RadiantCowbells/0verki11 (1): mbaki

Not Voting (2): Chemist1422, Creature

With 16 players alive, it takes 9 to eliminate a pair.

The deadline for elimination is paused.

Mod Notes:
Seeking replacement for mbaki.

The deadline is paused until a replacement is found, and will be reset to 48 hours.

A majority has been achieved.

Not sure why BEF was lynched after Fusco pushing them all day 1. Ank late on the wagon again.

[Moongrass]

I lost motivation to color after the first scum lol.

[Moongrass]

So what did y'all learn then?

[Moongrass]

Titus looks pretty bad here. Add that to my PoE.

[Moongrass]

I feel like that's too optimistic to be a wolf thought. Why did you people choose dance? Perhaps that's where the scum motivation lies.

[Moongrass]

Vote Count 2.1.5

Dance (9): RadiantCowbells, themilkcartonkid, chennisden, OkaPoka, 0verki11, BrightEyedFish, NanceFloor, Ankamius, Taly

(P-0)

1of4 (1): Time Devil
Veto (1): Titus

Not Voting (5): mbaki, Creature, JohnnyEnglish, Clemency, Chemist1422

With 16 players alive, it takes 9 to select a power.

Mod Notes:
A power has been selected.

Here are the pairings for the Dance:

Player 1	Player 2
RadiantCowbells	0verki11
mbaki	NanceFloor
OkaPoka	BrightEyedFish
Time Devil	themilkcartonkid
Ankamius	Clemency
Creature	Chemist1422
Taly	JohnnyEnglish
chennisden	Titus

Chemist, Clemency, Overkill, JE look bad. It makes me wonder about my Ank read.

RC why dance?

[Moongrass]

Cha cha?

[Moongrass]

I'm no newbie to the concept of mafia/werewolf.

[Moongrass]

That's a boring secret. You probably already know the answer to that.

[Moongrass]

Mbaki was obvious villa.

If we get it wrong today will we be an even number to play the quiz thing tomorrow? That looks fun.

[Moongrass]

Bah humbug.

[Moongrass]

Excellent. We're still playing quiz at an odd number though.

[Moongrass]

The joy in this game needs rekindling.

[Moongrass]

Explain

[Moongrass]

I didn't see that mafia get two kills if we're wrong. But then is that really so bad? I wouldn't mind narrowing the pool further.

I also think we got this so we'd probably end up with a bullet-proof confirmed town.

High stakes anyone?

[Moongrass]

Chen why so bitter?

[Moongrass]

this setup is ridiculously townsided so its ok

scum aren't hard to find tbh

i doubt there's a deep wolf

honestly coal is too OP

moongrass probably scum because mbaki "pushed while knowing tmck was PR"

You seem confident here, or am I mistaking confidence for anxious complaining scum? If the former were right then you should be snapping up the chance to play quiz and test out your reads.

[Moongrass]

Is dann FL? Because I'm not surprised if he realised that this slot is town.

[Moongrass]

I'm fine with Veto but put me in with 0verkill, Clemency, Chemist or Titus so it deals with the LHF and scummy slots. Leave Nancefloor out of it.

Tmck pushing Nancefloor is villa. Both are my strongest townreads.

[Moongrass]

Tmck put his foot in his mouth. He's still town.

[Moongrass]

That's what makes this fun. So many comments about about how townsided this setup is yet noone has the kahunas to up the stakes. There's a ton of info from quiz regardless of outcome.

[Moongrass]

Dance was scumsided to me and y'all didn't think twice about it.

[Moongrass]

Tmck assuming that I'm scum, why would Dann do that as my buddy? That would be a silly move since I'm unanimously scum read. It would make more sense to bus me in this state no?

Can we like not have the obvious town fight each other?

[Moongrass]

Because he wants to have more than 1 scum on coalition so as not to be "the scum that made coalition fail"

They're not scum at all. I'd bet my plushie dragon on it. You're being paranoid.

[Moongrass]

So uh

Does anybody feel like moongrass is obvscumming

Only the whole game

You can kill me in Veto dw.

[Moongrass]

Well that's news to me. I used to think you had good reads Ank.

[Moongrass]

Yes. Not like this though.

[Moongrass]

Oh ok, I'm kind of surprised by the read then lol.

[Moongrass]

Then all is not as it seems.

[Moongrass]

Ok I'm going to focus on more important things in life now. I'll be back after GoT.

[Moongrass]

My second theory also makes sense but that's also somebody who I expect to flip scum here playing that way too

So ?????

Dammit girl I'm town.

[Moongrass]

Ank tell me why you scumread this slot?

[Moongrass]

Sloths > baby seals.

[Moongrass]

The way mbaki played around me

And the way you approached the game.

Eh.

[Moongrass]

I wish I was drunk.

[Moongrass]

Are more people going to vote or?

[Moongrass]

He should be. He's the cutest.

[Moongrass]

When did you get a title RC?

[Moongrass]

Yeah I'd lynch RC over Tmck.

[Moongrass]

The normal thing to do would be to give a new coalition that doesn't include a counterclaim.

[Moongrass]

Too many C's

[Moongrass]

Can we not game throw for your ego tmck? You're not good, you can't read this slot correctly.

[Moongrass]

Zzzz.

VOTE: Veto

[Moongrass]

I would veto {MariaR, Clemency, 0verkill, Timedevil}

[Moongrass]

Based on dance partners vote day, Creature Chemist likely contains the last scum

Chemist > Creature

Could go Chemist, Clemency, Creature, Overkill. Gets rid of LHF

[Moongrass]

Based on dance partners vote day, Creature Chemist likely contains the last scum

Chemist > Creature

Could go Chemist, Clemency, Creature, Overkill. Gets rid of LHF

While I think Ank is less likely scum than Overkill, including Ank in the Veto forces scum to leave all the outsiders for a coalition dramatically reducing the number of viable scumteam minimum.

Yeah include Ank I'm currently reassessing that read.

RC is right about using Veto to find scum in the coalition.

[Moongrass]

Too early for vengeful.

[Moongrass]

Veto needs to be hammered still right?

[Moongrass]

Btw RC is scum.

[Moongrass]

Really? You're going to shade me for not contributing?
I don't understand why RC is complaining about my lack of appearances in veto pools when he hasn't put me in his. Are you saving my lynch for later boo?

VOTE: Clemency, Chemist, MariaR, 0verkill

[Moongrass]

I thought we all agreed moongrass was scum but they haven't made even one veto pool

Oh I misread this.

[Moongrass]

No I'm using veto to clean up the coalition like a person who is not bad at mafia

Pretty sure I remember you hating the idea to veto since you couldn't waste our repick to redo coalition...one that you've still not shared.

[Moongrass]

Eh let me know when people can speak for themselves.

[Moongrass]

Okay, but can I ask you a question? Do you not see the scum equity for trying to shut down a conversation that could help another town?

I find you irritating. I think you're town. Couldn't care less that you keep chirping on with your bad read. Take a moment to admit you're stuck in a tunnel that no response from me is going to change.

[Moongrass]

Weren't you calling me scum a page ago?

Yes. I was trying to get you interacting with me because I expect a certain response from you which seems to be missing in general when people have townread you this game.

[Moongrass]

Do you usually accept people townreading you? Are you confident in people's ability to read you?

[Moongrass]

why should i argue with correct townreads on me from people that i'm not scumreading?

It seems out of character iirc.

[Moongrass]

You lost me.

[Moongrass]

i don't think that every townread me on this game comes from a person whom would not scumread me if i were scum. that doesn't mean i'm going to argue down people's townreads on me.

Ok, that implies you have faith in their ability to read you.

[Moongrass]

You lost me.

You said it was “out of character” for RC to accept tr on him from slots he doesn’t sr, correct?

I’m asking why you think that.

It's a sekret. In your experience does he read you correctly?

[Moongrass]

@Moon, why haven’t you responded to this?

Why veto a slot that was A) not in failed coalition and B) no good reason to sr?

A)I included two slots in the coalition and two slots not which seems to be what most of us are doing. My 4 choices are who I would like sorted without losing a potential high input town slot like Ank/PB.
B)I disagree. Maria has some scummy posts.

[Moongrass]

Chemist dying isn't bad, why is that town?

[Moongrass]

Or you could tell me why she's town instead of pushing me off my read just because you said so

[Moongrass]

PB I look forward to your thoughts.

[Moongrass]

You’re the one saying she has “some scummy posts”, so why won’t you back that up?

I'll elaborate when I feel like it. I trust you have eyes and Maria has a short ISO. It's not rocket science.

[Moongrass]

I look forward to the arguments that my slot was scummy after I'm killed. I'd be very amused if the veto was all town and we systematically kill off 4 town.

Also, no I don't have to explain anything to anyone. We are all responsible for our own reads and I don't get into the habit of being backed into a corner by overzealous town who wouldn't listen anyway.

[Moongrass]

Yes but what happens to the other two after scum kill two? Town gets paranoid and thinks they are scum because wolves didn't kill them. We may as well assume all four are dying.

[Moongrass]

I'm not unhappy with the leading veto given that town scumread all of them and we do need to be wittled down with so many LHF slots.

[Moongrass]

Yes they are, as I said I don't mind veto being used for people being scumread by the majority. 1 is obviously not going to happen, I'd be happy with two scum in it but even that's unlikely if I'm included. 2 is more likely than 1, which isn't even an assumption I'm making but an amusing thought that if all four were town then they are doomed regardless which makes it important that we're only putting scumreads in there. 3 is a little bit of a stretch, it's that they will be marked for scum the rest of the game, so I'd watch anyone pushing/not pushing the remaining two slots once their alignments are revealed.

[Moongrass]

Chemist1422, Clemency, Creature, Pink Ball veto should probably swap creature out for another as there are better ways to sort him.

[Moongrass]

Rereading JohnnyEnglish makes me unsure about my Maria read.

[Moongrass]

TD v Nancefloor appear SvT from the perspective of TD's ISO. I'd say TD is the likelier scum based on his manoeuvring this game.

[Moongrass]

Spoiler: The joys of fusco part 1

VOTE: overkill

sigh

VOTE: overkill

0verkill is not scum with Fusco, this vote came at a time before the Fusco wagon started gaining momentum.

oh right. raisins.


if you were scum i feel like youd do more than push on td

This reads like a soft defence of Nancefloor in a world where TD is town and NF are scum.

I think its unhealthy to focus on spec for the 8ball. i still dont get it, but coolio.


taly, nancy, and nrighteyes are my current group of people

These townreads from scum usually contain one wolf.

I think people focusing on the replacements are wrong too.

its a holiday weekend.

Are replacements +town or +scum here? This was prior to me replacing in.

oh boy

am I going to have to play my hand immediately

yarr scum m8y

???

HURT: ankimus

???

Fusco, why you voting me gurl?

Yea but look at how they tried versus how much return they got. I dont want to put words in their mouths though. Lets make them respond.

VOTE: TD

but i mean, ill review tomorrow/

This doesn't feel like distancing more than it feels like Fusco getting cold feet on a push.

chemist

where did you go

i fell asleep

I’m going to read shadow from the perspective of someone who has a lot of prior experience with him

Okay so he has not done like anything

Good to know

I’d wait for him to do stuff that’s actually readable or lynch him if we can’t find anything else

Chemist is cruising scum.

Like I dont particularly like being SRed by you in every freaking game you hop in.

chemist

where did you go

i fell asleep

I’m going to read shadow from the perspective of someone who has a lot of prior experience with him

Okay so he has not done like anything

Good to know

I’d wait for him to do stuff that’s actually readable or lynch him if we can’t find anything else

Fucosco, Chemist, town I think from this.

~ND

Uh no.

So just to piss on everyone's reads. 0verkill is not scum, TD maybe but not the best push. Chemist is scum. NF are scum especially if TD flips green.

[Moongrass]

Vote Count 1.2.14

BrightEyedFish (6): chennisden, themilkcartonkid, JohnnyEnglish, Clemency, 0verki11, Time Devil

(L-3)

chennisden (4): Titus, Fuscosco, OkaPoka, NanceFloor
themilkcartonkid (2): BrightEyedFish, Chemist1422
Fuscosco (1): mbaki
OkaPoka (1): Ankamius


Not Voting (3): Creature, RadiantCowbells, Taly

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 to eliminate a player.

The deadline for elimination is 27 April 12:00pm UTC-4, or in

(expired on 2019-04-27 12:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Vote Count 1.2.15

BrightEyedFish (7): chennisden, themilkcartonkid, JohnnyEnglish, Clemency, 0verki11, Time Devil, Fuscosco

(L-2)

Fuscosco (4): mbaki, RadiantCowbells, NanceFloor, OkaPoka
themilkcartonkid (2): BrightEyedFish, Chemist1422
chennisden (1): Titus
OkaPoka (1): Ankamius

Not Voting (3): Creature, Taly

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 to eliminate a player.

The deadline for elimination is 27 April 12:00pm UTC-4, or in

(expired on 2019-04-27 12:00:00)

Mod Notes:

@mod, are treestumped players flipped?

Yes.

@mod can treestumped players still use their ability?

No.

Vote Count 1.2.17

Fuscosco (7): mbaki, RadiantCowbells, NanceFloor, OkaPoka, BrightEyedFish, themilkcartonkid, JohnnyEnglish

(L-2)

BrightEyedFish (4): chennisden, 0verki11, Time Devil, Fuscosco
mbaki (1): Titus
themilkcartonkid (1): Chemist1422
0verki11 (1): Clemency
Taly (1): Ankamius

Not Voting (2): Creature, Taly

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 to eliminate a player.

The deadline for elimination is 27 April 12:00pm UTC-4, or in

(expired on 2019-04-27 12:00:00)

Mod Notes:
Less than 1 day remaining!

@Mod, what resolves first, the 1-shot repicker or the scum night kill?

The people who stayed on BEF until the end seem less suspicious than those who jumped off last minute like Clemency and JohnnyEnglish/Maria.

RC not voting all day but jumping on scum with his first serious vote is meh.

After some reading I'm happy townreading skygazer, Titus, Tmck, Chenn, PB.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: Clemency, Chemist, Chen, TD

Though the last two aren't scum reads by play, they have ended up in shady positions on most EoD vote counts.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: Clemency, Chemist, Chen, TD

Though the last two aren't scum reads by play, they have ended up in shady positions on most EoD vote counts.

Change Chenn for Creature and I am there. Chenn might be townbeard.

I want to townread Chenn but how does he keep ending up in such awkward positions? It gets to a point where you think maybe there's no such thing as too scummy to be scum. Creature is probably town.

[Moongrass]

I'm willing to exhange for another non-townread though?

[Moongrass]

What happened between these two posts. Also, I like your town pool a lot and it doesn't feel like sheeping consensus

So before the vote pool I liked Chenn because of fusc's play around the slot. I also thought he may have been the 8ball as he was the first wagon flipped scum was pushing once 8ball was selected...but then Chenn and TD are both on the BEF wagon EOD1, are both on the all town dance wagon and both don't really move as fluidly (same problem I have with RC's vote pattern) as town votes tend to.

[Moongrass]

So VCA changed my original perspective after reading a few parts of the game.

[Moongrass]

Except for PB, I agree the town pool looks decent.

Reading Ank made me realize there are places where she spews town. I'm not a fan of PB so far but bear in mind this is a huge complicated game so some leeway should be given until he'svready to sink his teeth in.

[Moongrass]

Yawn.

[Moongrass]

I don't believe the aggression NF is pushing. The tone doesn't line up with someone trying to sort the game but rather someone attempting to bend the game to their will through sheer force.

[Moongrass]

Yes your influence on me is powerful and all my reads revolve around yours.

[Moongrass]

What's garbage is the confidence of your reads, dare I say they almost seem informed. It's amusing that Maria says on her entrance that noone should be able to read her or her predecessors but she has no qualm about your read on her.

[Moongrass]

You're either easily distracted by shiny things or you're scum. I'm giving you the dignity of assuming it's the latter.

[Moongrass]

No don't quit, mafia is a lifestyle.

[Moongrass]

You really know how to seize bad momentum Chen.

[Moongrass]

omg omg guys i like officially have a girlfriend as of 3am last night

this is a thing that's happening?? im happy?
- Dann

Exciting! Congrats.

[Moongrass]

I thought you said TD and Chen were town 0K? Why would you put TD on your list after that?

[Moongrass]

I like to replace into games as I get to choose which slots. I prefer town, haven't been wrong yet.

[Moongrass]

BEF should have never been lynched.

This slot is 100% town. My read before subbing in wasn't wrong.

[Moongrass]

Yes I read this slot as town before subbing in.

[Moongrass]

[Moongrass]

PB what are your thoughts on Chen and TD?

[Moongrass]

TD = TimeDevil. I'm having trouble establishing a solid read on both of them. I'd recommend you read the fusco ISO as the flipped scum. Also read the different events in the setup before doing VCA. The 8-ball VCA followed by the dance pairings is full of info which I'm still trying to decipher.

[Moongrass]

PB do you think nancefloor are town?

[Moongrass]

Either nance usually scumreads people they dislike or they have a massive crush on me. Either way I'm flattered.

I'm happy still reading taly/sky as town. 0K is very town being fed up with the game which is why I think a lot of the replacements are town. This environment is ++ for scum.

[Moongrass]

Tell us something new.

[Moongrass]

0K you're naive if you think town will follow your reads should you die.

[Moongrass]

PB can I get an ETA on you being able to effort?

[Moongrass]

You should that was a terrible lynch.

[Moongrass]

Vote Count 2.2.10

OkaPoka/BrightEyedFish

(9):

Time Devil

,

chennisden

,

Titus

,

RadiantCowbells

,

Skygazer

,

NanceFloor

,

Clemency

,

Ankamius

,

themilkcartonkid

Creature/Chemist1422 (2):

OkaPoka

,

0verki11

Ankamius/Clemency (1):

JohnnyEnglish

chennisden/Titus (1):

BrightEyedFish

RadiantCowbells/0verki11 (1):

mbaki

Not Voting (2):

Chemist1422

,

Creature

With 16 players alive, it takes 9 to eliminate a pair.

The deadline for elimination is paused.

Mod Notes:
Seeking replacement for mbaki.

The deadline is paused until a replacement is found, and will be reset to 48 hours.

A majority has been achieved.

A colored illustration of my reads.

[Moongrass]

oh ok very cool
Moongrass like explain that read in a way that doesnt sound OMGUSy because thats probably cool

I have explained my read progression it started out with TD v NF looking like SvT. Unfortunately it's always going to look like OMGUS because a lot of it has to do with how they are approaching their reads now.

Look at how they are conf biasing everyone's alignments based on how they read me, the riddiculous confidence they have on a MariaR, PB, and RC town read that is impossible to have uninformed with what content is in here. There is a difference between "I think x is town" and "I scumread you because how can you not see x is town" when the player in question is unconfirmed.

It's possible they are town in TD vs NF, but until I see some flips and if they keep approaching their reads like a bull in a china shop then I'm holding on to them both having scum equity.

[Moongrass]

and that sucks because it's not really the answer that i was hoping for.

funnily enough, i really wanted to believe that i've done something meaningful and i started out with scum play and only more recently moved to town play b/c it was unfulfilling
i knew that in 2015 a lot of my wins were essentially blood money through being so hostile that people didn't want to fight me but to what extent has that changed

i might be, like, less profane and predisposed to out of game threats but it's really same song different verse and whatever

i guess in the end the answer is that i don't think that i like mafia. maybe it would have been diff if i never pushed scum play the way i did.
but i've come full circle to this point too many times and realized that nothing's really changed

:/ <3

[Moongrass]

There was no protown reason to veto Maria and then you have yet to provide those alleged “scummy” posts of hers to explain your reasoning but you obviously can’t since there’s nothing remotely scummy about her posting here.

You're a broken record with no brain. You keep yelling and now I get why. People are actually stupid enough to listen to you.

I explained why I veto'd her and you can go suck a duck if you think I have to justify anything to you. Do town progress on their reads, yes, do town have to act like town and justify everything they do, no. Am I the scummiest slot, no. None of your reasons are reasons I'm scum, just reasons that we don't see the game the same way. If you are town, in future don't bury someone you scumread because you could be wrong. If you really tunnel like this as town I'll avoid future games because you're playing like a starving blind man who's down to eat anything and that makes the game unfun as hell. All scum have to do is coast on your bad pushes.

[Moongrass]

You can't AtE yourself out of playing the whole game RC, Why not use confirm on yourself?

[Moongrass]

Lynchbait?

[Moongrass]

yes i can.

Silly.

[Moongrass]

I don't believe the aggression NF is pushing. The tone doesn't line up with someone trying to sort the game but rather someone attempting to bend the game to their will through sheer force.

When I eventually flip please remember this one thing and stop letting NF do this.

[Moongrass]

I don't believe the aggression NF is pushing. The tone doesn't line up with someone trying to sort the game but rather someone attempting to bend the game to their will through sheer force.

When I eventually flip please remember this one thing and stop letting NF do this.

You haven’t done a goddamned thing to get me to change my read on you. You’re only argument is you dislike my pushing you. Well guess freaking what? That’s because you’re my #1 sr. It was previously OK but he is currently acting way townier than you.

You have no reason except I didn't agree with you or bend to your will by following your barked orders.

[Moongrass]

I don't believe the aggression NF is pushing. The tone doesn't line up with someone trying to sort the game but rather someone attempting to bend the game to their will through sheer force.

When I eventually flip please remember this one thing and stop letting NF do this.

You want me to change my read on you? Do something to fucking earn it. This kind of broken record bs. is just reinforcing it.

Blah blah read my ISO your read is shit.

[Moongrass]

Lynchbait?

Yes. And right now, those three players are in the most voted veto convo right now.

Who's pushing for that, town or scum?

Probably scum 0K is finally being established as likely town. Clemency has had unimpressive votes and was in the failed coalition, Chemist is behaving like coasting scum and was also in the failed coalition. If we can put them in a pool to cull them off then it gives scum less LHF to hide behind.

Take a look at the failed coalition and tell me who's scum if not those two.

[Moongrass]

PB I'm getting worried about you.

[Moongrass]

Thank you, that's exactly why I kept nagging you so I wouldn't be left swimming upstream on my own.

[Moongrass]

Uh? You're assuming RC is town but pushing him like he's scum. You're assuming I'm scum so putting me in the veto makes no sense as I'm either dead or confirmed scum with the worst logic possible. How can you sheep someone who's overtly not playing to victory? Im confused. My brain can't even.

So to simplify, what you're saying is, If I'm left behind I'm confirmed scum and if RC is left behind you'll townread him and sheep? Why bother putting him in at all then?

I wouldn't mind being in the veto with RC and NF if you added TD or Chenn instead of PB. Though you would need to flip all 4 veto before it actually meant anything.

[Moongrass]

But that's not why I'm doing this. It seems like two potentially strong players each are sring each other. Vetoing has a high possibility of forcing scum to reveal themselves

Can you walk me through how this will force them to reveal themselves?

[Moongrass]

RC isn't fighting anyone.
D1 he chose 8-ball, spent the day focussing on WOTC a player instead of sorting people, then just randomly jumps on the scum wagon mbaki started whom he was scum reading at one point.
D2 he says never choose dance, then he votes for dance and is on the awful BEF/Oka wagon.

That reads to me like RC did his bus thing D1 whilst being overly concerned about his votes during 8-ball where wagons have even more information regarding motives.
Once he gained that towncred he cared less about lynching the worst pair and watching his contradictions.
D3 he tries to control the coalition, then takes no part in forming it because he wants to use our repicker to create his own coalition...which he still hasn't shared btw...so he whined, then tried to waste our repick after coalition was an obvious fail.
D4 he lurks then AtEs himself from having to play because our repicker won't read him how and when he wants.
I'd be sad if this is his scum game but I can't see it as anybody's town game.

[Moongrass]

But that's not why I'm doing this. It seems like two potentially strong players each are sring each other. Vetoing has a high possibility of forcing scum to reveal themselves

Can you walk me through how this will force them to reveal themselves?

Either you and pb or nance and rc are scum. You would be forced to strongman rc and nance or they would be forced to strongman you.

Sorry but no, PB and I have similar reads but that doesn't mean we aren't TvS and the same could be said for RC/NF. If NF is town I'd be even more suspicious of RC because scum love what they're pushing and would just follow the bulldog.

Also, btw, if rc and nance are alive, we confirm rc by lynching nance and if shes town, then I repick coalition and die and rc runs the game

No. Again RC and NF aren't confirmed not TvS just because they townread each other.

[Moongrass]

Yes but I don't trust my read on him hence I shaded him yellow on my readslist. I feel a bit more confident that you scumread him too.

[Moongrass]

So, why are you voting with him?

[Moongrass]

Creature who would you veto? We need a vote count.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: RC, NF, PB, Moon

Sorry PB, RC is right, the tradeoff is worth it.

I would use the repick to 1/4 twice. Use confirm to check controversial slots remaining. Use quiz when town is on the right track, if we ever get there.

Anybody who thinks Coalition is ever going to win this game is delusional.

[Moongrass]

I don't plan on having coalition win. My plan has coalition creating two PoE pools.

How is 2x 1 of 4 any less of a PoE?

[Moongrass]

I don't plan on having coalition win. My plan has coalition creating two PoE pools.

How is 2x 1 of 4 any less of a PoE?

Titus let's assume the second one fails - what are your PoE pools then?

[Moongrass]

PB don't bend. Who do you scumread besides those who must not be acknowledged?

Titus what's the two PoE pools if your second coalition faila?

[Moongrass]

Yes I get it, I'm pissed off too but that's the tactic. Demoralize town until they can't be fucked doing anything anymore.

[Moongrass]

PB talk to me about Chen town and what's your read on TD?

[Moongrass]

Titus you keep pushing your tactics as the ideal but you don't seem to really believe it. The weak objections to the gamestate aren't helping, any thoughts on how the PoE would work better through coalition vs 1 of 4 would be appreciated.

[Moongrass]

Sigh. <3 Ok I understand. I'm not one to quit so I don't agree but if you're not having fun I get it.

[Moongrass]

QQ

[Moongrass]

PB don't bend. Who do you scumread besides those who must not be acknowledged?

Titus what's the two PoE pools if your second coalition faila?

The first coalition ool and the second coalition pool. None of them would have overlapping players minus tmck.

But if both fail it doesn't tell you anything except that tmck is town?

[Moongrass]

Titus why go through using our retrigger to do that when we could just look for the 1 and 2 scum anyway because I am close to certain that there's no way all 3 scum got into the first coalition.

[Moongrass]

Here are the pairings for the Dance:

Player 1	Player 2
RadiantCowbells	0verki11
mbaki	NanceFloor
OkaPoka	BrightEyedFish
Time Devil	themilkcartonkid
Ankamius	Clemency
Creature	Chemist1422
Taly	JohnnyEnglish
chennisden	Titus

I really hate TD and Chemist here.

Vote Count 3.2.3

Ankamius, Chemist1422, Clemency, Creature, NanceFloor, RadiantCowbells, Skygazer, themilkcartonkid (8)

: Moongrass, Chemist1422, Creature, chennisden, Time Devil, NanceFloor, MariaR, Ankamius

Not Voting (6): RadiantCowbells, Skygazer, Clemency, 0verki11, Titus, themilkcartonkid

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 to select a coalition of 8.

The deadline for choosing a coalition is 19 May 12:30am UTC-4, or in (expired on 2019-05-19 00:30:00)

Tmck why did you jump off the coalition you started? I can't be anymore scumread so I'll ask, is Tmck confirmed town?

[Moongrass]

Given that the repicker is the only player that can act whenever there are no Mafia Night kills, would everyone be fine with it if such Nights are shortened to 24 hours?

I'd like everyone to PM me their thoughts about this.

I ask about tmck because I remembered this post confirming him differently. It confirms the role exists but not the alignment of said role.

[Moongrass]

Titus why go through using our retrigger to do that when we could just look for the 1 and 2 scum anyway because I am close to certain that there's no way all 3 scum got into the first coalition.

Because it mathematically eliminates scumteam. Being confident and leaving zero outs are two very different things.

I answered this question for myself as soon as I posted. You're one of those people which isn't a bad thing. It just seems that it's a waste as the repick is one-shot and there are plenty of events that will PoE for you without us using the shot so hastily.

[Moongrass]

No one else has served CC’d him, so I don’t understand why you’re even questioning that? Believe me, this game wouldn’t be total hell for me if RC was actually repicker

Has the repicker been confirmed as a town role? Did I miss that in the set-up?

[Moongrass]

Oh nevermind I finally saw the example role PM.

[Moongrass]

So based on Dance pairings I read TD, Chemist and JE/Maria as scum. Their partners are all people being townread that wouldn't be lynched that phase. It could be WIFOM but Occam's razor says that's the most likely scenario.

[Moongrass]

TD is the worst simce Tmck is confirmed town.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: Chemist, TD, MariaR, Clemency

[Moongrass]

I'd rather base my veto off the dance pairings than put 2 town from the coalition up for the kill just to waste our repick on having another coalition fail. That's me though, you were all going to do what you wanted anyway.

[Moongrass]

Have you voted for a veto creature?

[Moongrass]

I don't think you two dying will help at all because you're not agreeing with everyone else which is a good thing.

[Moongrass]

That's my current vote.

[Moongrass]

Chenn may have spewed TD town, which is worth looking at if TD is in fact town. I still maintain that TD/NF felt like SvT early game although maybe every push from NF just looks lile SvT to me now. I will relook at those interactions at some point.

[Moongrass]

If we're going to include four coalition members, then I'd rather do NF + Sky + Chem + Clem.

Sky replaced Taly and Taly was heavily townread which is why I think Maria is scum for being paired with them in the dance.

[Moongrass]

Yeah which is again suboptimal and why I don't see the point of vetoing from the coalition.

[Moongrass]

I'd rather base my veto off the dance pairings than put 2 town from the coalition up for the kill just to waste our repick on having another coalition fail. That's me though, you were all going to do what you wanted anyway.

You are aware that your predecessor essentially townlocked that slot, right?

I think that’s a lame excuse for vetoing a slot that was neither in failed coalition nor a consensus sr. You said some of her posts were “scummy”. So when do you plan to link/quote them for us?

I'm not reading the whole game so I'm basing my reads on the events and ISO skims. I really hated maria's comment about mbaki being obvscum after skimming the beginning of his ISO because 1. I expect her to have a good read on mbaki and 2. She said that at the time people started scumreading me so it just served to inflame the suspicion further. I am not impressed with her play so far/her lack of real contribution so I'm happy to PoE from what is already known and take it from there. I don't understand the rush to use our retrigger when there are plenty of events left. We only have to use it before we select an event that doesn't block a kill. I'm surprised that noone is really thinking about the info from the 8-ball and Dance. Coalition isn't worth it until we have more info than oh there's scum in both groups...like no shit.

[Moongrass]

If we're going to include four coalition members, then I'd rather do NF + Sky + Chem + Clem.

Sky replaced Taly and Taly was heavily townread which is why I think Maria is scum for being paired with them in the dance.

I thought you said she had “some scummy quotes”, which you never explained. Now it’s her being paired with Taly slot. Okay.

There's literally nothing I can do to convince you you're being dumb so you can just assume I'm scum instead of constantly trying to engage me in a pointless 1v1.

[Moongrass]

Yeah I'm ignoring the blind tunnel. Anyone can cherrypick to bias their read. I'd rather people just get a veto done.

[Moongrass]

Also think about why it's a good idea to coalition again because cost-benefit analysis says it's not worth it.

[Moongrass]

Has tmck even agreed to go with Titus' plan? Because if that's the route you all choose tmck has to repick coalition tonight.

[Moongrass]

You’re only jumping off of us now, because PB and Sky are obvtowning us.

I trust PB's read on you even if I hate the idea that you play this way as town.

[Moongrass]

No, what’s “dumb” here is vetoing a slot that was A) not in failed coalition nor B) a consensus sr.

I've talked a lot about why I'm not going with consensus. You are literally blind tunnelling me.

[Moongrass]

Also think about why it's a good idea to coalition again because cost-benefit analysis says it's not worth it.

You don’t want a 2nd coalition? Why not?

Titus you keep pushing your tactics as the ideal but you don't seem to really believe it. The weak objections to the gamestate aren't helping, any thoughts on how the PoE would work better through coalition vs 1 of 4 would be appreciated.

PB don't bend. Who do you scumread besides those who must not be acknowledged?

Titus what's the two PoE pools if your second coalition faila?

The first coalition ool and the second coalition pool. None of them would have overlapping players minus tmck.

But if both fail it doesn't tell you anything except that tmck is town?

Titus why go through using our retrigger to do that when we could just look for the 1 and 2 scum anyway because I am close to certain that there's no way all 3 scum got into the first coalition.

Titus why go through using our retrigger to do that when we could just look for the 1 and 2 scum anyway because I am close to certain that there's no way all 3 scum got into the first coalition.

Because it mathematically eliminates scumteam. Being confident and leaving zero outs are two very different things.

I answered this question for myself as soon as I posted. You're one of those people which isn't a bad thing. It just seems that it's a waste as the repick is one-shot and there are plenty of events that will PoE for you without us using the shot so hastily.

I'd rather base my veto off the dance pairings than put 2 town from the coalition up for the kill just to waste our repick on having another coalition fail. That's me though, you were all going to do what you wanted anyway.

Yeah which is again suboptimal and why I don't see the point of vetoing from the coalition.

[Moongrass]

Has tmck even agreed to go with Titus' plan? Because if that's the route you all choose tmck has to repick coalition tonight.

Who is in Titus’ coalition again because I’m not vetoing PB?

Who is ultimately vetoed doesn’t really have anything to do with what repicker chooses.

If you're vetoing from the coalition to follow titus' plan if redoing the coalition once two town are killed from that veto then the next day coalition has to picked the previous night for the plan to work. Otherwise we're picking veto from the coalition for no reason.

[Moongrass]

That was probably hard to follow because that didn't make sense to me. I'll try again.

Titus plan:

- Veto from previous coaltion
- 2 die
- repicker chooses coalition
- form a coaltion with remaining players + tmck to see if we win the game.
- if we don't win then we know there are scum in both groups.

Without the repicker choosing coalition this plan fails and we veto'd from the first coalition pool for nothing.

[Moongrass]

If we're not choosing to follow titus' plan then there's no point in choosing more than 1 or 2 from the coalition for the veto and we may as well just go with our scumreads.

[Moongrass]

There's also no point in doing another coalition until we've PoE'd further. Like we could use other events that lead to no NK before tryimg again.

[Moongrass]

And based on how little info coalition is giving us I wonder if that's even an opti mal choice for repick.

[Moongrass]

Reveal allows an NK. Protect would be better. I would protect Creature. 1 in 4 allows an NK too so I guess Coalition or veto are the best repicks tonight.

[Moongrass]

Protect won't work on non-vanilla. Veto because I've realised that there aren't other events that will help us PoE without an NK. Like protect is great but it doesn't tell us anything. So if we have to repick tonight it will have to be an event we've already done. So the choices would be 8-ball which is no, Dance - maybe but meh, Coalition - safe but likely uninformative, veto - kills off 2 players of our choosing making it easier to PoE. If we went with veto then LHF/scumreads should be chosen for both.

[Moongrass]

Then once all the scumreads/low posters are gone > 1 of 4 > Reveal > Venge.

[Moongrass]

Yeah I'd rather reveal RC. Sure go coalition again but then who are you going to veto from the coalition? Or are you all going to try and guess who's town again for it?

[Moongrass]

What's more helpful to scum are all the slots we're unsure about so I wouldn't mind being in a second Veto, with other scumreads. I see that as helping town PoE better than the other option if we lose 4 town who are being scumread anyway. Titus' plan is safe but we likely lose 2 town anyway that weren't being scumread. So that just leaves the lynchbait for us to choose from later.

14 minus 4 town = 7 town, 3 scum. Reveal = 6 town, 3 scum after NK So 1 in 4 could give 50% chance to hit scum or spew scum depending on the pool. Assume scum is lynched so 5 town, 2 scum, Protect, then Venge. Or even Quiz if y'all think you have it at that stage.

Imagine doing the later events with TD, Chemist, Me, Clemency still in the game.

[Moongrass]

The second veto should be the two surviving plus me plus another scumread/LHF player.

[Moongrass]

You considering repicking veto over coalition?

I think it's better for the long game. We just have to agree on bottom 6 reads and let scum clean it up for us.

[Moongrass]

I see no point in repicking coalition unless we win which seems unlikely tbh.

[Moongrass]

TD > Chen but he's not in coalition.

[Moongrass]

It's weird that he hedged about the likelihood of lynching RC but gave alignment reads for the others.

[Moongrass]

Did Fusc ever vote Boon?

[Moongrass]

And why do yuo think tmck is town?

Im not sure he is.

I was before.

I liked conf in general. Boons is a friend of sorts.
I liked his rqs, and response to being SRed for it
I liked him until about 1334. He starts defending chen, shading oka, and pushing onto me.

More reasons why Maria isn’t scum

Fusc is talking about tmck not boon.

[Moongrass]

It's weird that he hedged about the likelihood of lynching RC but gave alignment reads for the others.

Which means he scumslipped on RC town. Saying “not unkillable” over “unlynchable” sounds like he was thinking about NKing RC.

I don't really see it. He knew there was no NK if 8ball missed. If anything it looks like distancing, I don't think scum say unkillable accidentally, as they think about everything they say.

[Moongrass]

The fusc Chenn thing is strange because he pushes Chenn a bit but then, he asks why someone else is scumreading Chen.
Tbh it would be smart for scum to make a wolf the 8ball because either they get a reward of two kills for sacrificing one of their own and if they don't get their lynch it looks like the 8ball was town in retrospect from all the scum pushing on them.

[Moongrass]

VOTE: TD, Chemist, Clemency, Moon Will you guys take this? There's no point in waiting for apathy to set in. If by some miracle you veto again I'd add Chenn and 0verkill to the two survivors and that will eliminate most of the dodgy slots for you.

[Moongrass]

If you're sure RC is town then maybe reveal Maria or Titus at some point.

[Moongrass]

Possibly, It's just strange that it deviates from how they assess others. Look at the list they made:

RadiantCowbells - hard to actually kill on D1
mbaki - familiarity in name only
OkaPoka - no real chance
Time Devil (TemporalLich + Baezu) - who is temporal lich? baezu is possible
Shoshin - possible
Vedith - likely, if they come under fire
Creature - meh, maybe but id prefer other people
Taly - not reall
Confirmation Bias - ummmm wildcards are a bad gambit, but if youre like me and dont care/get the significance of the 8ball DK the sure. based on their iso? Theyre serious enough player who dont do the dramahs.
Clemency - possible but he has a habit of towntelling early and scumslipping later.
NanceFloor (Nancy Drew 39 + Dannflor) - literally never played with either, but know the names
chennisden - low hanging for reasons i said earlier
Chemist1422 - plausible
0verki11 - who
BrightEyedFish - who
Shadowlesscloud - who
Fuscosco - i mean i guess, but troll accounts are bad bets on D1'

I mean RC could be town I just don't see using the word kill as a slip. I'm sure I've said kill and die as town.