Starcraft Mafia: Legacy of the Void [Game Over]

[Iconeum]

I MISSED RVS?

[Iconeum]

Eh, probably the majority of this playerlist. I’m a pretty recognizable player on site, both mod wise and player wise, and I have a much different perspective on the game of mafia than a lot of the more mechanical players on site, and I think people started to see that the past couple years.

I feel as if you’re setting up a push on me. That’s very interesting. I quite enjoy this back and forth we’re having.

You say I’m acting, but I’m merely responding to your posts. I am gauging what you are saying and debating whether or not this is coming from scum you or town you.

I feel you thought I’d be an easy push because of my posting style without actually knowing my capabilities, and now you’re backing away.

This feels so fabricated

I’d also like to point out that I say ‘Haha’ and not ‘Lol’ generally. You can decide if that has any relevance.

VOTE: Liger

This was weird, I didn’t realize it was serious until about 3/5 the way in.

I think it might be coming from scum.

brrrr

I MISSED RVS?

You missed a lot.

I don't think I did though.

[Iconeum]

So claiming miller, claiming, mason, claiming IC, buddying up early, vote hopping

Is anyone townreading FL?

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Iconeum]

Ofcourse they're not real. Not all of them, anyway.

Scummy jokes

[Iconeum]

Liger why are you taking RVS so seriously?

It's almost like you play to an agenda rn

VOTE: Liger

UNVOTE:

None of these wagons are any good

Chennis, show me what changed your mind on Liger?

fp: I read it

[Iconeum]

I get that a lot

[Iconeum]

What do you consider awkward though?

[Iconeum]

Because Flavor's probably scum. Did I mention rolefishing?

[Iconeum]

You'll get used to me.

Flavor's opening post was literally fishing.

[Iconeum]

Heyo everyone

And then this scum makes an appearance.

Early gut says Shiro is scum, but I think I recall mislynching her often years back

These are towny posts, however.

You are responding to me in a way that is putting up a front and that is very obvious. I don't know if that front is being done maliciously or just to be "charismatic and charming" but it is very not real.

Can you drop the act or at least just tell me you aren't gonna drop it so I can ignore you? Cause you continuing on this is just going to be a "you are" "No i am not!" argument that gets us nowhere and frankly I don't care enough to have it.

Liger, why are/were you not pushing Leaf harder? Are you townreading that 'front' it was putting up?
Has that changed now?

[Iconeum]

Chenn, why are you at the bottom of the Player Order.

I don’t think it’s random.

You think this was role fishing?

Ofcourse it's rolefishing.

[Iconeum]

@FL: I'll

assume

Liger to be town for the time being. I'll also try to convince myself PPG are town too. PB takes some time for me to figure (and he's actually capable as scum) but I haven't seen anything that pings me from the slot so far. I

still

wish I could do 1-on-1 with Nancy, but I don't even know how to say what I wanna say to her.

Spoiler:

~Buttercup

I'm so happy you guys are town!

[Iconeum]

Hi Vedith

[Iconeum]

I think one of FL-Liger is scum though

[Iconeum]

Ofcourse they're not real. Not all of them, anyway.

Scummy jokes

I could call this (along with the vote on FL) a scum claim!!! He claimed IC. He claimed a Mason, and he claimed a Miller. Now if ANY of these claims is true then he is TOWN by definition. Yet you chose to vote him?? Explain.

Meh. Scum mason. Even scum miller are possible. I don't actually believe any of the claims though. And I am scumreading FL.

[Iconeum]

Well not self resolving but I'm sure a kind Samaritan is out there willing to carry out the will of -Protoss deity here- as planned.

Do you think the BP claim was scummy or not? Do you think shadow is scum or not? If the answer to either question is yes, then you should be pushing for a lynch here.
If the answer to either question is no, then the claim doesn't have to be tested as that would waste 2 powers.

I don't see why you would even want the claim to resolve at all because of this.

I Role fish as town more than i do as scum.

I don’t need to Role fish as scum, I’m just good at hunting PR’s

Oh ok good to know.

VOTE: RCEnigma

[Iconeum]

UNVOTE: I think BP is a scummy claim regardless. But it can be tested tomorrow so there are better options probably. Not named Liger preferrably.

Then we can let an investigative handle it tonight and have vig shoot elsewhere.

Looks like you already answered this question... Why are you so keen on using town powers of which you don't even know for sure they exist to clear a slot you find scummy?

Both a vig and an investigative are better used elsewhere, and I find the lack of pushing on what you describe as a scummy claim interesting.

[Iconeum]

How do you know I don't know they exist?

It's a bit of an assumption that you don't know for a fact the existence of an investigative role with the ability to clear a slot, AND a vig.

Not to mention the risk that putting an investigative on someone brings with it (blockers, bus, etc)
Having a vig shoot is nonsense either way, because if it's scum BP you achieve nothing, and if it's town BP you give scum the chance to finish him off. If there is a town BP, then its not a long stretch to think there could be a scum Strongman in play to counter. Clearing him as town gives little benefit imo.

Hence, either he's scum for the claim and we lynch or he's town and we leave him be, having scum guess he's actually BP and let them test it out.

[Iconeum]

Both a vig and an investigative are better used elsewhere, and I find the lack of pushing on what you describe as a scummy claim interesting.

How interesting? Enough to dance?

I don't like to dance, but I'm getting married soon so I have more stress about dancing then usual.

[Iconeum]

Let's play.

What do you think or feel is the intention behind RCE's plan to deal with Shadow?
And do you think Shadow's claim is scum or not?

[Iconeum]

Vote:Liger

This is scum. That back and forth with flavor and the way he backed away with (tell me to ignore you bs) was beyond awful

This to me was the scummiest vote on me and want to have some people give input on Shiro.
I know not much there, but wondering what people are thinking of Shiro even if its just "not enough to process".

To me I read this and my immediate mind went to looking at the way this was framed. First you have beginning with "this is scum" stating that theres certainty in that statement. Then goes into a statement on what happened, and then framing of how it went with "he backed away with (tell me to ignore you bs)" which to me was neither how that went down nor how that could be perceived in the slightest even if you thought I was scum. Then last part was again a part of this statement of opinion that doesn't need to be qualified it just "was beyond awful", as though it was self evident.

This just read like someone framing things as scummy without actually considering them to be actually scummy.

It's really little to go on, with only 4 posts by Shiro and only 1 of those are usefull.
Does explain his scumread, and it's pretty straightforward.

Low effort, yes. Scum? I don't think so.

[Iconeum]

Let's play.

What do you think or feel is the intention behind RCE's plan to deal with Shadow?
And do you think Shadow's claim is scum or not?

I don't really care about either of these if I am gonna be honest.

IMO it's the most important event (the claim) that has happened so far.
There's a PR claim, and people have different opinions on the matter. Probably worth rereading if you don't care about it right now

[Iconeum]

Minor scumread on Cereberus. Something seems out of place. Not sure what it is yet.

Overly defensive?

[Iconeum]

Why speculate about multiball in the first place?

[Iconeum]

*i suppose a survivor would make sense to get BP, but same goes for a SK*

either way, both options point towards lynching over dedicating town power

[Iconeum]

The issue I see with your slot is the course of action you prefer.

I believe the BP claim is, at the very least, non-town.
Pushing us towards believing it's resolvable is very much anti-town.

[Iconeum]

If I could make a suggestion it would be to shoot icon and shadow simultaneously.

because you think i'm scum?

[Iconeum]

Ico, do you think we should lynch shadowless today?

I think it would be a good lynch, yes. And I'm surprised pressure on shadow is status quo after his claim.
Though it's too soon to lynch him now, I want more interaction around his claim first.

Minor scumread on Cereberus. Something seems out of place. Not sure what it is yet.

I started to feel this too.

Piggybacking. brrrrrr. Vedith are you scum this game?

*i suppose a survivor would make sense to get BP, but same goes for a SK*

either way, both options point towards lynching over dedicating town power

That's the kind of thinking that never gets a D1 scum lynch.

Explain this to me? Because either i'm missing the point you are trying to make, or you misinterpret me.

[Iconeum]

I don't know if wow is on the menu for this game, mate. I'm shooting for a solid C here after D1 with the hope that I'll be around more D2

I did browse around the starcraft wiki last night and I'm less against leaving shadow until later than I was

shiro, volxen/mj, Hydra TBD are all good votes here I think

VOTE: hydra tbd

why vote hydra tbd over shiro or the other hydra?

[Iconeum]

A50, got any scum reads in shiro, volxen, Hydra TBD?

Shiro maybe. I have town leans on the other two.

Why the town read on volxen?

This doesn't make sense. Why are you asking him about town read on volxen instead of his townread on HYDRA TBD (the one you are voting)?

I'd think you would be more interested in that, since you are voting there yourself.
Feels fabricated and forced.

[Iconeum]

There's definitely a very strange progression of posts made by urap here

Anyone?

[Iconeum]

VOTE: urap

let's lynch scum

[Iconeum]

well, you did fp me :p

[Iconeum]

go right ahead sir

[Iconeum]

well, you did fp me :p

what does fp mean?

fasposted

Hi, Bubbles is suspicious of Volxen and thinks Liger may be town. I would prefer HER to give her reasons why.

This is where my gut is at rn, too

In 584 you wanna lynch the BP claim. From this point, there is zero involvement on your part to actually push this. Moreso, you never vote there anyway.

In 639 you give a number of scumreads in shiro, volxen/mj, Hydra TBD. And end up voting for one of them, never explaining a single one of these reads.

642 feels a lot like trying to buddy A50. Why specifically ask this to him, and not anyone or everyone else?

663 is my biggest issue. A50 replies, and says he has different reads. But instead of asking for information about the slot urap is voting, he wants to know why A50 townreads

the other one.

Feels fake.

HOWEVER, 707 followed by 710 are posts I can relate to, and feel town. Specifically the fact that the hydra only posts after being called out is a red flag, and reminds me of another game I played with a scum!MJL.

VOTE: Volxen/MJL

[Iconeum]

Caught up now

Town: Alchemist, Liger, RCEnigma, Vedith, Powerpuffs

Scum: Chennisden, Shadowless, Shiro

- Hydra

No catchup posts + easy scum reads is =/

I don't typically make catch up posts. A readslist is usually a good enough summary, and I am always willing to elaborate if prompted.

- Hydra

What is your actual read on Volxen hydra, Hydra? Saying he'll obvtown eventually implies you are not townreading there

What about the other players?

[Iconeum]

And what are your thoughts on the BP claim?

[Iconeum]

A50, you went from 'I don't know if this kind of activity from ICO is town or scum',

to

'I slightly scumread ICO'

to

'he's in my top 3 scum'

Can you explain what upgraded the read every time?

[Iconeum]

Attention all Shiro-wagoners

Is there an actual case on him, or is it a policy lynch?

[Iconeum]

Attention all Shiro-wagoners

Is there an actual case on him, or is it a policy lynch?

I legit made a case, and the posts since then haven't really been convincing any other way.

A case that is based on a single post. 1. post.

Seeing Shiro's ISO I can kinda understand you want him lynched on policy, but it's less scummy then for instance Shadow disappearing after his claim.

[Iconeum]

What about the other Shiro voters?

[Iconeum]

I wonder if you'd feel the same way if he voted anyone else instead of you

fp'd: Oh i'm not really looking at you when I say policy lynch. I know ur the only one who is making effort in actually casing him.
All the other votes on him however… worries me

[Iconeum]

What are your thoughts on the other Shiro voters?

[Iconeum]

FL is shiro lynchbait?

Yeah I can do shadow. Why did the early wagon on him disintegrate on them again?

Vote:Liger

This is scum. That back and forth with flavor and the way he backed away with (tell me to ignore you bs) was beyond awful

More votes on this ^

Nah you are the scum here tryin got go for the easy target

Something about these really bothers me but I'm unfamiliar with this player so if it's known they come off scummy I'm ok jumping on the next decent wagon.

An updated VC would be nice. I thought Moon was voting Shiro, but he changed to Shadow.

I really felt like Moon was lynch-shopping but his reads match my own and his Shadow vote is not bad.

[Iconeum]

hai

was shadow scum?

[Iconeum]

Shiro and Volxen are the 2 main wagons right now, as you can see above in the VC.

I don't like Shiro wagon very much, just check out his ISO and make up your own mind. Read Liger's posts, he's the only one pushing a read on Shiro.

Volxen ISO is beefier, and also more scummie imo.

[Iconeum]

Oh and Shadow claimed BP 'because he was almost lynched and day was almost over"

[Iconeum]

I'm at my PC, who should I have changed a read on since I last posted properly? \o/

You posted properly?

[Iconeum]

You think Shiro is scum and want to lynch him for realz D1?

[Iconeum]

You think Shiro is scum and want to lynch him for realz D1?

Sure, why not?

oh ok cool

[Iconeum]

Whatsup

[Iconeum]

I understand mjl doesnt wanna participate but with what and how she posted its perfectly alligned with her scumgame as i witnessed myself in the newbie game
Not much time busy weekend but it was random stuff found online X

[Iconeum]

@Mod, what happens in the case of a tie?

-MJL

Majority lynch so no majority = no lynch

[Iconeum]

I don't mind soft claiming to save Chen. I am the even night variant of his role hence I believe them to be town.

VOTE: Chen

VOTE: Chennisden

-Bubbles

Whaaa?

[Iconeum]

Yo Moon that's lookin pretty ugly right there

Bubbles get your head(s) straight and lynch Volxen

[Iconeum]

Liger is probably mafia doctor, right?

"I shot shadow he's actually BP"
"I saw Liger target shadow N1"

Those things both get covered by claiming to be a cop investigating shadow N1.

What?

Wisdom didn't flip BP scum like I expected him to, he flipped goon.

Claiming BP makes more sense if he can Proof a Bullet somehow. It's not high on the list of attractive claims to start with.

Maybe I'm overestimating shadow by an awful lot.

Around his claim there was a lot of talk about how to handle the night actions. ICO is the slot that sticks out as actively trying to dissuade town from, as he put it "wasting town resources" on checking shadow or taking a shot there.

VOTE: Ico

If you explained your vote here, I've missed it. Why did choose Iconium when they haven't posted since D1?

--MJL

Well day 1 he actively attempt to shift investigatives elsewhere and discredit the idea that shadow (wisdom) should be investigated at all. You can go back and read through our back and forth on it. It's gujsed as conflicting game theory but I think it was blatant misdirection.

I was definitely pushing towards not using town actions against a claimed BP slot, and I'd do it all over again anytime. How is that scum?

I'd have lynched that claim, absolutely. Using actions on that slot to test the claim would be very bad.

[Iconeum]

All of those who are questioning why I haven't played since D1 is BECAUSE YOU FUCKING QUICKLYNCHED ON D2.
Even with a guilty, it's not very good play.

[Iconeum]

Ico never really talks about Flavor leaf in his ISO.

You mean except for the part where I question just about everything FL did and claimed, and voted there. Right?

[Iconeum]

Talk about a blatant lie lol

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Volxen MJL hydra

[Iconeum]

I think one of FL-Liger is scum though

Despite this, I don't actually scumread Liger for his push on me.

well, you did fp me :p

what does fp mean?

fasposted

Hi, Bubbles is suspicious of Volxen and thinks Liger may be town. I would prefer HER to give her reasons why.

This is where my gut is at rn, too

In 584 you wanna lynch the BP claim. From this point, there is zero involvement on your part to actually push this. Moreso, you never vote there anyway.

In 639 you give a number of scumreads in shiro, volxen/mj, Hydra TBD. And end up voting for one of them, never explaining a single one of these reads.

642 feels a lot like trying to buddy A50. Why specifically ask this to him, and not anyone or everyone else?

663 is my biggest issue. A50 replies, and says he has different reads. But instead of asking for information about the slot urap is voting, he wants to know why A50 townreads

the other one.

Feels fake.

HOWEVER, 707 followed by 710 are posts I can relate to, and feel town. Specifically the fact that the hydra only posts after being called out is a red flag, and reminds me of another game I played with a scum!MJL.

VOTE: Volxen/MJL

This is still scum, and should be lynched

[Iconeum]

Yeah this is why I think Iconeum is kind of scummy for not voting me and going for Volxen.

Yeah i'm scum for going after my scumread instead of the popular wagon

Talk about a blatant lie lol

Why would town!Ico call me a blatant liar and not be voting me when everyone else wants to? Why is he so focused on Volxen given everything going on in the current game state?

I don't think these actions tell me he is town. I think if he thought I was lying or misrepresenting him, he would have some other reason to call me town so as not a reason to at least consider voting me. He doesn't seem to consider it at all.

And going back through his posts I am not even sure what his overall read on me is.

Sooo you think I should scumread you because you lied? Please do tell me why I, as scum, would NOT be voting you right now?
Unless ofc we were buddies

[Iconeum]

@pops

how did I not take a stand on Wisdom slot?

[Iconeum]

625 699 859
all clearly say what I thought about Shadow slot and claim.

After Wisdom replaced, it got exceedingly difficult to lynch there.

[Iconeum]

Okay, so quick recap of what happened "20 pages ago":

- Shadow gets what, some 5 votes on him
- "Assumes" that "2 day nights" somehow implies 3 day days. As an experienced player who's played multiple games of Mafia outside the Newbie queue.
- Claims prematurely at L-4
- Someone proposes a vig test
- Liger reacts fast, says "Ill check him. Any vigs out there can shoot elsewhere.", consciously claiming invest.

Liger_Zero, did you really think the plan would succeed when you claimed invest?
You apparently are aware that it's "wise" for scum to NK you. Then why claim in the first place? I'm struggling to understand why any of this comes from a town perspective, please explain.

-Bubbles

If you actually think I claimed cop to save a buddy, you must have a very low bar for what you think of me. I will let you figure it out though.

If this comes to pass, there's gonne a few laughs in the dead thread

My reasoning is for town not to waste actions. It is that simple.

I should probably just jump on the wagon for this alone.

Yeah that kill I think helps me sort a lot better just because I think I get a much better idea of who would and wouldn't make the kill.

Hmmm need to collect those thoughts. Right now though Wisdom is confirmed, RCE might as well be confirmed.
I have varying other townreads but I want to focus on my suspicion list which seems to have grown.

If liger flips red, RCE could very well be his buddy here

[Iconeum]

I think I was pretty clear I didn't want any town action on the slot, and just a lynch instead on D1.

[Iconeum]

I'm not gonna go deeper into the link I see between Liger and u until he actually flips red

[Iconeum]

And the gamestate at that time did not allow for a push on Shadow slot.

[Iconeum]

Feel free to consult on how to push me in the PT I'll wait.

you are scumreading me because I chose the correct path of action on a scummy slot.
there's really not much for me to say or answer there

lack of a push on shadow? there was barely any interaction on my posts about not wasting town power. like i said, gamestate would not have allowed for a push there.

[Iconeum]

Feel free to consult on how to push me in the PT I'll wait.

why would i wanna push you?

[Iconeum]

You only have 5 votes on you

Days about to end iirc and theres not another wagon with a vote soo

I don't think this is a scum exchange in the game thread

[Iconeum]

Spoiler:

Seeing the votes on me, guessing its time for me to claim?

You only have 5 votes on you

Yes, you should claim!

You only have 5 votes on you

Days about to end iirc and theres not another wagon with a vote soo

Yes, you should claim!

Fenix the bulletproof.

My "2" flavors are before and after my body was killed lol

You only have 5 votes on you

Days about to end iirc and theres not another wagon with a vote soo

Day ends in 9 days...

this is the entire exchange that happened around the claim, it just doesn't look like a scum v scum here...
IF liger is in a scumteam with shadow, surely they discuss this in PT? no?

[Iconeum]

Thanks for quoting the stuff that makes me town

[Iconeum]

and remember, i could have made this easy on myself by just sheeping the liger wagon.
I choose not to, and actually defend him

[Iconeum]

i agree on pops

don't let him go on the next days

[Iconeum]

Iconeum I'm open to your reason for that. On a sidenote, if there's a deep wolf I think it's pops.

Funny how you are sheeping your deepwolf suspect on me, though

[Iconeum]

I'm not over my Volxen MJL scumread. Every bit of it remains as scummy as before.
I've quoted myself on it recently.

It is my single greatest independant scumread in this game, based on play.

[Iconeum]

UNVOTE: I think BP is a scummy claim regardless. But it can be tested tomorrow so there are better options probably. Not named Liger preferrably.

Then we can let an investigative handle it tonight and have vig shoot elsewhere.

Looks like you already answered this question... Why are you so keen on using town powers of which you don't even know for sure they exist to clear a slot you find scummy?

Both a vig and an investigative are better used elsewhere, and I find the lack of pushing on what you describe as a scummy claim interesting.

Hmm. VOTE: Iconeum

I just remembered that I used my role on Iconeum so he's not the eyes but his ISO makes sense as scum.

Like, you are literally just saying your mechanic makes it

less

likely i'm scum, but I become scum because my ISO makes sense?
I assume the part from my ISO that you quoted here is thus scum? What the hell is scum about it? If anything, it's town.

[Iconeum]

Alright boys, girls, pluralities, and inanimate object I'm done reading the thread.

Some people do a player by player on replacing in but I have a general policy of limiting commentary on my townreads because I think it guides the scum NKs to targets they know I am unwilling to help mislynch without providing much other benefit. The policy doesn't apply if there's a benefit to doing so, like keeping that person from getting mislynched.

Shiro would be an example of such an exception. I'm not feeling her lynch. It's less that I have an overt townread on her and more that it seemed to me like people started scumreading for NAI posts that could be construed to be AI. In particular there's that one early post with the parenthetical in it that had awkward sentence structure that I think would lose me points on a high school English paper but didn't see scummy.

I found Bubbles's case on Volxen pretty compelling (please call the PPGs by their character names, that's how they're signing their posts, and I don't know them or their meta, if you need to write meta just like put "Dexter/mith busses as scum"). There's a precept someone presented in a game once, about how, defending or justifying behavior that was initially scummy later on is inherently weaker than observing what happened in the first place, because after the fact the scum can understand exactly what you found scummy about it and whitewash that and also change behavior. Or something like that. The person who said it put it even more elegantly and convincingly. This concept has even more force in the case of a potential scum half of a hydra that might have blown the game for a partner and let them down. Because you're bringing forth a different motivation for acting protown than the original basis of the problematic behavior. I dislike PPG backing off and whitewashing it off the scorecard. I think Volxen can score some birdies and eagles later this game to make up for it, but it's still a bogey no matter what explanation MJL gives.

I'd like to see Chennisden hang. He doesn't seem to be trying to persuade other players to vote his scumreads. He's taking positions just to take positions and not playing to win the game. A lot of other stuff has already been said.

I agree the Wisdom slots had scummy early posts and don't like his recent play either. I am really torn about mechanically whether it's correct to leave someone alive N1 in light of a BP claim. But the slot can hang in light of the slot's day play.

So you call me out about fencesitting on Shadow slot, but here you do the exact same thing.
'Wisdom scummy posts, and not good play. But yeah let's not lynch there'.

How can you find a case compelling, only to dismiss it entirely? (Volxen)
If ur town, help me push that scum! Now that's an ISO that's scummy lol

[Iconeum]

I don't mind soft claiming to save Chen. I am the even night variant of his role hence I believe them to be town.

VOTE: Chen

VOTE: Chennisden

-Bubbles

Whaaa?

Oooooh yeah this one! Very scummy push on you!

The one where you 'softed to save Chenn' and then right after voted anywayyyy

Very scummy indeed

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Moon

[Iconeum]

Ico, to be clear, you're scummy but unlikely to be the main killing scum. That doesn't mean you're not scum. A lot of your ISO makes sense, as RCE pointed out, the hedging on wisdom was pretty bad. What I quoted is the needle that broke the camels back. It reads that after you hedge on wisdom, you attempt to redirect town roles from looking into him because it would be useless somehow. I'm also still adamant that your EOD1 push on me was a scum claim.

On volxen, it doesn't make sense that wisdom jumps on that wagon unless it's distancing that he knows won't go through. That's not how I'm interpreting it.

I never hedged on wisdom. I never really pushed there, that's not the same as hedging. My point of view on the matter is very clear.

Yes, I kept saying that power roles would be wasted on Shadow and that a lynch would be better. And that's still true. There's very little power roles that would have a town benefit used on Shadow.

Did you see my quote above? That 'wow Moon this looks pretty bad' is the full extent of said 'EOD1 push on you'.

[Iconeum]

In other words it was clear you knew he was flipping town so you made sure to shade me for my vote on him before he flipped. It's a classic scum mistake to setup the next lynch on a green flip. It makes sense for scum to shade me there and not kill me.

Explain why you claimed to clear Chenn, and then immediately voted there?

[Iconeum]

Ur actually scum and you got caught lol

[Iconeum]

I don't want to lynch Chen so can we please lynch elsewhere?

If it helps anyone I think the claim is legit. Never seen ascetic and JK combined though.

I don't mind soft claiming to save Chen. I am the even night variant of his role hence I believe them to be town.

VOTE: Chen

And that's over the course of barely 30 posts

[Iconeum]

Liger if you so strongly believe you should be lynched today, why did you not self-vote?

[Iconeum]

Volxen's catch up post is really hollow.

I don't really want to vote Liger after reading his content as seeming town all day. His play is very dumb as both scum and town and I think it moves the needle scum but I have a hard time feeling it. Moreso it doesn't seem like I really need to make the effort to decide since his lynch seems inevitable anyway.

How are you scumreading me if we basicly have the same reads?
Do you really think Volxen Hydra and me are buddies??

[Iconeum]

Let's talk motivation here

Liger comes out with a (fake) inno in Wisdom. Why?
Only 2 options:

-they are buddies
-town fakes an inno on scum

Why would a scum fake an inno on his buddy if there's so little pressure on Wisdom in the first place? If anything, I believe Wisdom was actually more townread then scum. Further, why would a scum hint towards being an investigative? That leaves them wide open to the later game 'how come you still alive' debate.

A town fake inno, not endorsing this play but whatever, makes more sense even for just drawing in a NK or any other possible misdirection shenanigans. Liger got caught with his pants down by the guilty from Alchemist, and why Liger kept up that act is beyond me. And I still feel it is more likely to come from town then scum.

[Iconeum]

Yeah I know what you said but I think you’re lying so what is it really?

Then vote me and see where that gets you.

why would liger lie

i very much doubt scum make me conftown when they cant even kill me

Liger, I hope I'm not wrong about you bro.
If ur town, and you honestly want to talk to me, work with me here.

I've adressed every single piece of poo that was thrown at me but nobody seems to care and talk about it.

[Iconeum]

Getting investigatives to look away, and lynch the scummy slot. This was my stand. Not leave the slot alone.
Failure to actually push the slot cannot be attributed solely to me.

[Iconeum]

Or...we could all just lynch Iconeum. Also, at some point Cerb needs to stop getting a free pass.

I've adressed every single piece of stuff you call a case, but you just don't stop scumreading me. Why the tunnel?
You don't even bother discussing anything I say...

[Iconeum]

Or...we could all just lynch Iconeum. Also, at some point Cerb needs to stop getting a free pass.

Answer me this: do you think I'm buddies with Liger?

[Iconeum]

At this point, I don't believe Liger to be scum. Obviously it took some time to reach the conclusion. Liger definitely pulled some scummy shit, but that doesn't mean it can't come from town.

[Iconeum]

Part of me feels like Liger should be lynched just for the information of the flip, but then I look at the current votes on Liger and those feelings go away

[Iconeum]

Volxen, I agree that Wisdom was by FAR the nr.1 investigative target for the game.
If liger is scum, he softed to go and check Wisdom knowing fully well he'd likely not be the only one doing so.

Then he still comes out D2 with a (fake) clear, despite knowing there's good odds town would have checked there too? Talk about taking a chance as scum!

[Iconeum]

That's just cruel

[Iconeum]

And oh yeah, YOU FUCKING QUICKLYNCHED AGAIN???!!!!???

[Iconeum]

Volxen was scum before, it's still scum.

[Iconeum]

Volxen also initiated the quicklynch on CerB. Scum was planning on doing that, so I expect them to push towards it.

[Iconeum]

You are not gonna bail on me now, not after I hard-saved your butt yesterday.

There's plenty of scum to lynch here, and Volxen has really been allowed in this game for too long imo.

[Iconeum]

Mass claim today. I think we should start with Volxen and popcorn from there.

Didn't we lynch popcorn already?

btw, I feel you. But that's post-game talk.

Volxen claims first, then Hydra, then I don't care about the order really

[Iconeum]

13-3? that seems on the low-side but with a role like that it's not impossible

[Iconeum]

If there isn't a mechanically better vote after mass claim, I'm literally gonna stick my vote to Volxen.

[Iconeum]

Moongrass - I cannot forget about this slot.

We need to lynch here, as well. But still rather Volxen first.
Moongrass had that very weird soft-claim to save, into vote move a couple days ago.

[Iconeum]

Liger - Who's your townblock right now?

[Iconeum]

y not?

[Iconeum]

Right now Shiro, Almost50, Moongrass and you.

Exclude Moongrass and I'm in sync

[Iconeum]

Maybe mafia figured out ur the traitor?

[Iconeum]

Is it important we specifically lynch the eyes?

Hydra is indeed the odd duck in that town list

[Iconeum]

the eyes has to be Cerb, right? It's the first night the eyes didn't kill, right when Cerb is roleblocked?

[Iconeum]

Cerberus v666(6) ~ Volxen MJL Combo Pack(1), Liger_Zero(1), u r a person 2(1), Hydra TBD(2), RCEnigma(1), Cerberus v666(2) -- HAMMER

Guaranteed scum on this wagon

[Iconeum]

the eyes has to be Cerb, right? It's the first night the eyes didn't kill, right when Cerb is roleblocked?

The eyes killed Clemency so nope.

No they didn't?

[Iconeum]

We're not lynching volxen.

You're gonna explain this

[Iconeum]

Cerb, is Volxen scum with you?

[Iconeum]

*points finger threateningly*

[Iconeum]

That's not the answer I was expecting. I'll just take it as confirmation for my Volxen tunnel

[Iconeum]

I think anything he says would have convinced you that you are right lol

yes

[Iconeum]

Volxen is my scumread, Moongrass is scummy, Moon defends (and is unwilling to explain) Volxen. I hope it's this simple

[Iconeum]

Cerb, is Volxen scum with you?

In a way, everyone is scum with me now.

You can't stop me.

I am inevitable...

Actually, we don't need to stop you. Enjoy being the last scum in a couple days

[Iconeum]

RCE who's town who's scum?

[Iconeum]

Wait were you not the first one on CerB wagon yesterday?
I need to reread this, I think I saw it in the VC you were first though

[Iconeum]

nvm i'm stupid you talk about pops wagon

[Iconeum]

Play order/wagon position is exactly why i'm still on Volxen.
The Cerb lynch was planned for, and I highly suspect scum helped push the wagon (probably even started it).

[Iconeum]

The fact you are protecting Volxen after everything surprises me

[Iconeum]

the eyes has to be Cerb, right? It's the first night the eyes didn't kill, right when Cerb is roleblocked?

The eyes killed Clemency so nope.

No they didn't?

You haven't adressed this yet, either

[Iconeum]

VT

[Iconeum]

Hydra TBD

[Iconeum]

My role is protoss observer, a

town one-shot tracker, one-shot watcher

On night two I tracked Liger_Zero (he didn't visit anyone).
On night three I watched Almost50 (no one visited him).

Icon should claim next.

- Volxen

Why watch A50?

[Iconeum]

the eyes has to be Cerb, right? It's the first night the eyes didn't kill, right when Cerb is roleblocked?

The eyes killed Clemency so nope.

No they didn't?

You haven't adressed this yet, either

I meant URAP and RCE cleared that up. Unless you think I was lying about confusing the kill type then IDK what this line of questionning is giving to you.

I'm not talking about switching names. You very clearly believe that the eyes are NOT Cerb, while we know Cerb was roleblocked last night and that coincides with the first time the eyes didn't kill. Yet you still feel Cerb are the eyes. I don't get that

[Iconeum]

A SIDE NOT TO ALL

Cerb didnt hammer Liger when he had the chance when everyone was really into lynching Liger.

I'm gonna fact check this...

[Iconeum]

Shiro, do you think the conversation between Cerb and Liger at EoD, and Start of Day was faked?

[Iconeum]

I don't want to lynch Chen so can we please lynch elsewhere?

If it helps anyone I think the claim is legit. Never seen ascetic and JK combined though.

I don't mind soft claiming to save Chen. I am the even night variant of his role hence I believe them to be town.

VOTE: Chen

And that's over the course of barely 30 posts

I'm soooo wanting to still lynch this

[Iconeum]

Cerb was reluctant, and called a timer on himself with intent to hammer. He definitely did NOT hesitate to hammer pops…

FFS liger if I'm wrong about you I probably lost the game for town by derailing your wagon

[Iconeum]

no need to convince me, there were reasons I was townreading you before and those haven't changed…

But why on earth would a scum!Cerb not hammer you?

[Iconeum]

I still suspect Ico but interested to see what happens if I VOTE: Pops

I might come back on sticking my vote on Volxen however… Moon has to be scum this game.
Moonshine also hasn't pushed me AT ALL today, despite definitely scumreading me yesterday...

[Iconeum]

How are you townreading Moon?

[Iconeum]

Shiro, do you think the conversation between Cerb and Liger at EoD, and Start of Day was faked?

[Iconeum]

Moon has literally flip flopped opinions and votes toward a lynch TWICE now.

First Moon softclaimed 'to save Chenn' (see my quote above on this pag, and turned it into a vote on Chenn a few posts later.
Then Moon pushed me, and flip flopped onto pop's wagon because 'lets see what happens'?

[Iconeum]

Id like to hear why people are townreading PPG. Auro feels manipulative and the other two heads are avoiding posting. The little times they did it was mostly trolling; that's not characteristic of either Nancy or PB as town.

Explain the "manipulative" part, and why it's a scummy form of manipulation.

-Bubbles

your push on volxen feels like youre taking advantage of his playstyle to push them

according to signup thread mjl wasnt even going to play

thats definitely not a concern

on the contrary, she said she's just here as volxen's buddy and the most she will do is share her reads here when she shares them with volxen

so nope.

Nothing wisdom pulls out of his hat is going to convince me that the shadow slot is not scum. That iso is obvious wolf and y'all are blind or starstruck if you can't see it.

I'm not really impressed with the volxen hydra attempt to look like they weren't prodging.

Wisdom was defending volxen pretty strong.
Moon and Volxen not scum together I think

[Iconeum]

I want to remind you that Krazy has done 2 setups where he put in a town even role and a town odd role. And zero setups where he did a town odd/even and the scum one being the opposite.

Why softclaim first to defend, only to vote there anyway 'seconds' later?

[Iconeum]

Shiro if ur town don't give up. Don't you wanna help wipe that smug smile off of Cerb?

oohhhhh the pleasure that will bring ^^

[Iconeum]

ok let's go lynch scum

VOTE: Volxen

[Iconeum]

UNVOTE:

ur right can't afford ANOTHER quiclynch

[Iconeum]

same here

[Iconeum]

gamsy? what does that mean?

If you mean gamey, go right ahead. Anything we can use to counter that UNLYNCHEABLE BULLETPROOF SCUM is ok

[Iconeum]

You can thank us post game when you are last standing

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Hydra TBD

You think we’re scum because...?

- Hydra

^ This is how you approach your top scumread.

Hydra scum, probably our lynch today.

Is it important we specifically lynch the eyes?

Hydra is indeed the odd duck in that town list

So.. it's Volxen, Hydra & Moongrass as traitor for you. Anyone else?

I'd lynch in Volxen/Hydra anytime. I'm putting RCE as scum before Moon right now.

Scum gamed me every night phase tbh, I've played poorly all game so I'll just vote with you A50 VOTE: Shiro

I'm an even night gun vendor.

What does this do, specifically? I read back but don't see it answered

Really we are going for Shiro?

no

[Iconeum]

N2 I gunned FL N4 I gunned Nero. Figured A50 was going to be the nk.

That's hard to believe in a game this size though

[Iconeum]

So RCE, care to explain why you gunned your scumread?

[Iconeum]

You said you gave a gun to FL, right?

[Iconeum]

FL is doing his weird pocket from the side scum thing again. This town block is destroyed.

Shade?

I wouldn't call asking if he's town shade. That's a -1 level play but whatever.

I've lost all of my townreads if I'm being honest and don't know if I'm just confused about the gamestate or no one's really towning. Cerb is but I can see his analysis on Chen as either alignment. I'm mostly holding onto the fact Cerb was digging into the same idea I was simultaneously.

I thought buttercup was town early but not because of her usual towntells if that makes sense, the other heads of PPG haven't impressed me. I think FL is scum the longer the day goes.

If I believe the bp claim to be scum Liger is probably town by proxy of shadows wagon moving there directly after.

I don't know Vedith's replace ins name off the top of my head but I has Vedith pretty strong town while I feel the rep in is playing political. No hard stances, trying to "herd" town in the right direction without definitive input. So idk.

Forgot alchemist existed, probably not a good sign.

Tldr;
Cerb
Liger
---------
Everyone else
---------
Probably FL

I'm not finding anyone and I don't like it at all.

In between you townreading FL, this happened. After this, you went back to townreading FL.
How do you explain giving a gun to FL?

[Iconeum]

It's pretty clear you were townreading Liger and Cerb over FL, and you were pushing FL at a certain point.
Why not give a gun to Liger or Cerb?

[Iconeum]

I think it's a strange choice giving a gun to someone you were scumreading at a certain point, while you had much clearer townreads whom you could have given a gun.

[Iconeum]

I'm trying to get a read on him, assuming we lynch scum today and need to do so again tomorrow.

Volxen/Hydra remain my 2 lynch candidates as is.

[Iconeum]

your slot is also still funny

You pushed me despite having used your power on me, but when you use your power on Volxen you keep on defending the slot

[Iconeum]

Also helps me be more sure of my read. You’re not conf scum but your associations are bad.

- Hydra

Tell your friends in the PT to stop pushing Liger. You are not getting a mislynch there

[Iconeum]

I really wish Shiro's tunnel on Liger would be non-existant.
Other then that, no scumread there.

[Iconeum]

All claims are in, I think Hydra TBD is the correct lynch.

Thoughts?

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Hydra TBD

[Iconeum]

You know liger I am uncertain if I should congratulate you for fooling everyone or blame the town for not seeing it. There are times that I do wish I could think you are town but I just can't.

This

feels

faked

But i'm sticking to Hydra and we evaluate tomorrow (if there is such a thing)

[Iconeum]

That's. .. what she said

[Iconeum]

Dont worry volxen well lunch you after hydra

[Iconeum]

Ico scummy, but I'm more confident in liger scum

If we're not lynching liger today the lynch should probably be us so that people can take our reads seriously,

if ico flips tow

n today we probably just get lynched tomorrow and scum win

BIG if. If you are Town then Icon is

the

one and only acceptable lynch today. Also,

not lynching Liger

. Pops already died defending Liger, and you're basically making the counter argument to nullify Pops' sacrifice.

Also, why didn't Cerb hammer you?? I think BOTH you and Icon are scum, and I'm not lynching Liger.

How the fuck can you think Liger is town and I'm scum? Scum was obviously setting up liger previous day as the 'easy' lynch which it would have been UNLESS FOR ME

[Iconeum]

Like, I literally put my head on the chopping block to stand up for Liger. There's no serious scenario where I'm scum and liger is town.

[Iconeum]

I actually think we should still lynch me today, as Alchemist and Almost was saying that having me continue to be around the topic of me faking cop to save a buddy will continue to resurface unless we just quash that now so it won't bog down the game later.

I want to talk to Iconeum some more before we do that though.

This is a sentiment that I agree with(that the noise surrounding this singular event could easily grown to dominate the entire game, and thus it needs to be resolved in some fashion sooner rather than later).

In unrelated news,

moongrass is also like 90% town, because in my opinion their claim is certainly true, the only question is the alignment of their claimed role

...and a scum moongrass along with a flipped town counterpart would have meant scum could have freely shot alchemist21 last night with little concern about protection existing on them. Since they did not shoot there, but instead at someone who was unlikely to be protected due to their miller claim, indicates to me that there was concern about moongrass protecting their preferred target.

With that said, a small amount of doubt exists because scum!moongrass could have easily gotten away with commuting alchemist21 and thereby preventing any possible investigations under the guise of protecting them, but I don't believe moongrass' position in the game has been threatened enough/they have been under sufficient suspicion that scum!moongrass would wish to draw that scrutiny in their direction.

A50, this is what you quoted. Read it again. I bolded the important part.

That is NOT SvS. That's scum shading a claimed PR.

[Iconeum]

A50, RCE

You guys need to hop onto the Hydra wagon.

Town
Ico
Liger
Moon
A50
RCE
Shiro

Scum
Volxen
Hydra
Cerb

[Iconeum]

Hydra is also inj my PoE tbh sooooo I could lynch there as well.

[Iconeum]

Sold?

[Iconeum]

That's L-1

Wh

[Iconeum]

*What will Cerb do?

[Iconeum]

That's hammer I think.

RCE why are you jumping on a wagon that's instigated by someone bullshitting according to you?

[Iconeum]

Liger/Ico/Moon/A50/RCE looks like a full-town wagon though.

[Iconeum]

Doesn't matter, both are town.

If this goes through like I hope it does, we kill Volxen next day

[Iconeum]

No quicklunch until'im here tomorrow pleaaase

[Iconeum]

Volxen, do you think I bussed Hydra yesterday? Like, from the beginning of the wagon?

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Volxen

[Iconeum]

And how come you came out of the gate with a vote on Cerb the day he was quicklynched while you were previously TOWNreading him so strongly?

[Iconeum]

And how come you came out of the gate with a vote on Cerb the day he was quicklynched while you were previously TOWNreading him so strongly?

[Iconeum]

You only have 5 votes on you

Days about to end iirc and theres not another wagon with a vote soo

I don't think this is a scum exchange in the game thread

Spoiler:

Seeing the votes on me, guessing its time for me to claim?

You only have 5 votes on you

Yes, you should claim!

You only have 5 votes on you

Days about to end iirc and theres not another wagon with a vote soo

Yes, you should claim!

Fenix the bulletproof.

My "2" flavors are before and after my body was killed lol

You only have 5 votes on you

Days about to end iirc and theres not another wagon with a vote soo

Day ends in 9 days...

this is the entire exchange that happened around the claim, it just doesn't look like a scum v scum here...
IF liger is in a scumteam with shadow, surely they discuss this in PT? no?

and remember, i could have made this easy on myself by just sheeping the liger wagon.
I choose not to, and actually defend him

I'm not over my Volxen MJL scumread. Every bit of it remains as scummy as before.
I've quoted myself on it recently.

It is my single greatest independant scumread in this game, based on play.

Let's talk motivation here

Liger comes out with a (fake) inno in Wisdom. Why?
Only 2 options:

-they are buddies
-town fakes an inno on scum

Why would a scum fake an inno on his buddy if there's so little pressure on Wisdom in the first place? If anything, I believe Wisdom was actually more townread then scum. Further, why would a scum hint towards being an investigative? That leaves them wide open to the later game 'how come you still alive' debate.

A town fake inno, not endorsing this play but whatever, makes more sense even for just drawing in a NK or any other possible misdirection shenanigans. Liger got caught with his pants down by the guilty from Alchemist, and why Liger kept up that act is beyond me. And I still feel it is more likely to come from town then scum.

Part of me feels like Liger should be lynched just for the information of the flip, but then I look at the current votes on Liger and those feelings go away

[Iconeum]

Volxen, do you think I bussed Hydra yesterday? Like, from the beginning of the wagon?

Yes. You knew you couldn't push me yesterday because Moongrass jailed me, meaning I couldn't have possibly put the nightkill through on night five. This is why Moongrass said he wouldn't lynch me on day five. And Hydra TBD was already under suspicion for various reasons, including the fact that they took a long time to come out and roleclaim despite being online previously. You figured they were going down anyways, so might as well get on the wagon earlier rather than later.

Do you think you deserve "towncredit" for being on Hydra's wagon? Because you've been boasting a lot about that and the fact that you weren't on Liger's wagon, even though it was really other people (Almost50, Pops, URAP2) that "saved" Liger from being lynched. You merely avoided the issue altogether and didn't even comment on Liger's fakeclaim until the end of the day three, long after his wagon had already collapsed. You weren't on Liger's wagon, but you didn't exactly dismantle his wagon either. You spent most of day three parking your vote on Moongrass.

And by the way, even before Hydra's flip you argued that there "had" to be scum on Cerb's wagon, yet you are arguing that Hydra's wagon was all-town. This doesn't really make sense as there was no "towncredit" to be gained by being on Cerb's wagon, considering his lynch wasn't really a lynch (although Hydra was on his wagon). Whereas there was potential "towncredit" to be gained by being on Hydra's wagon, and he was clearly the preferred lynch on day five in any case. His wagon definitely wasn't all-town.

You are scum and you bussed Hydra because you knew you couldn't push me on day five and you knew you couldn't stop Hydra's lynch from going through. It's pretty simple.

- Volxen

I didn't need to push you yesterday. I've been calling you scum all game long but we can only lynch 1 scum/day

Actually, I certainly do deserve credit for helping save liger. To this point I still hope it was the right call.

Are you seriously going to discuss the Cerb wagon? Scum had every incentive to be on that wagon. It had to happen quick, and scum is safe there because 'cerb obvscum'. Your spot on that wagon fits perfect for you being the last (unknown) scum.

Hydra wasn't lynched easily. You are downplaying this part. It took work to get that lynch to happen. You are saying that I not only bussed, but helped push his lynch from the beginning when it was FAR from sure the lynch was gonna happen.

[Iconeum]

I actually think we should still lynch me today, as Alchemist and Almost was saying that having me continue to be around the topic of me faking cop to save a buddy will continue to resurface unless we just quash that now so it won't bog down the game later.

I want to talk to Iconeum some more before we do that though.

This is a sentiment that I agree with(that the noise surrounding this singular event could easily grown to dominate the entire game, and thus it needs to be resolved in some fashion sooner rather than later).

In unrelated news,

moongrass is also like 90% town, because in my opinion their claim is certainly true, the only question is the alignment of their claimed role

...and a scum moongrass along with a flipped town counterpart would have meant scum could have freely shot alchemist21 last night with little concern about protection existing on them. Since they did not shoot there, but instead at someone who was unlikely to be protected due to their miller claim, indicates to me that there was concern about moongrass protecting their preferred target.

With that said, a small amount of doubt exists because scum!moongrass could have easily gotten away with commuting alchemist21 and thereby preventing any possible investigations under the guise of protecting them, but I don't believe moongrass' position in the game has been threatened enough/they have been under sufficient suspicion that scum!moongrass would wish to draw that scrutiny in their direction.

A50, this is what you quoted. Read it again. I bolded the important part.

That is NOT SvS. That's scum shading a claimed PR.

A50, RCE

You guys need to hop onto the Hydra wagon.

Town
Ico
Liger
Moon
A50
RCE
Shiro

Scum
Volxen
Hydra
Cerb

Look at this. A50 was so focused on Moon and I did my best to get him onto Hydra. I could easily let him go on about Moongrass and try to have him convince others to go there instead of Hydra while I votepark on Hydra.

[Iconeum]

I really wonder how upset scum were in their PT once they realized their precious Liger mislynch wasn't happening.

Volxen and Hydra on the wagon, Cerb off. Makes sense.

You are also ignoring what i'm telling you about not only being on Hydra wagon, but pushing it hard from early on.

[Iconeum]

I've had slightly posted more then that against Moongrass that justifys my vote there

[Iconeum]

So yeah, why don't you tell me why i didn't vote pops?

If i'm scum, and I already had a scumread there, why did I not join the wagon as scum?

[Iconeum]

I think we can assume that Wisdom death caused Hydra to join the scum team. I think that was the person that Hydra knew of at this moment.

Setup so far:

Spoiler: Setup Knowledge

Wisdom - Goon
Cerberus v666 - Overpowered Scum Role (Unlynchable Bulletproof Evil Mafia)

Hydra TBD - Mafia Traitor [Only knows 1 group scum] [Unknown if Mafia know of him or which group scum he knew of]

chennisden- Town Odd Night Alien
popsofctown - Town Two Shot Adjacency Doctor
Flavor Leaf - Town Mason Miller
Almost50 - Town Mason
Alchemist21 - Town Joat (1 Gunsmith, 1 Cop, 1 tracker)
Moongrass - Town Even Night Roleblocker
u r a person 2 - VT
Powerpuff Girls - VT

UNCONFIRMED ---

Volxen MJL Combo Pack - town one shot tracker one shot watcher
Iconeum - VT
Liger_Zero - VT
Shiro - VT
RCEnigma - Even night gun giver

Yeah I think Volxen claim here wouldn't match the setup at all. The likely hood we have this many investigatives, plus masons, plus the protectives. No way. Scum have one op power role but given everything else I wouldn't assume we also got 2 different investigative roles.

Volxen is the odd on out. If not I would assume RCEnigma but RCEnigma can prove his role still.

Your arguing under a false premise, that I can't possibly be a one-shot tracker one-shot watcher alongside Alchemist's role because that would be too townsided. But considering Cerb has a very powerful role, if Icon is also a scum power role, then my role would be balanced. Because that would mean that half of the scumteam have power roles, and it would explain why town has multiple investigative roles.

You haven't responded to my case on Icon, and you are trying to falsely argue that I "have" to be scum for purely mechanical reasons. If you are outright refusing to vote for Icon, then explain why you are so convinced that he is town so I can tell you why you are wrong.

- Volxen

Setup-wise, with the information we have now, I actually don't think Cerb's role is THAT powerfull. It had a huge shock-effect, and the free NK is definitely strong, but scum essentially

loses

a scum after that. It's only role in subsequent The role is also further balanced out by a scum-traitor that wanted to lynch another scum.
You are essentially arguing that I have to be a scum PR in order for your claim to check out lol.

[Iconeum]

Something went wrong in my writing there.

'It's only role in subsequent days is hammering a wrong wagon'.

[Iconeum]

So your argument is that I would look scummy for being on the wagon, and you are now scumreading me for being off the wagon lol

[Iconeum]

I mean, if I was on the pop wagon you'd be scumreading me right now for being on the wagon

[Iconeum]

Good game guys.

Krazy, thanks for hosting and the overall good modding. Next time I won't be bothering you with anymore 'holy shit how is this game not bastard, you bastard!!!!???!!!' type of PM's lol

[Iconeum]

Liger/Ico/Moon/A50/RCE looks like a full-town wagon though.