micro 871: mystery box of silver 4 (G O)

[GeminiTwin12]

Hey

VOTE: Parachutes bc who needs 'em right?

[GeminiTwin12]

Yeah, I'm not putting much stock into anything considering the game is still fresh

[GeminiTwin12]

Yeah, I'm not putting much stock into anything considering the game is still fresh

Actually, why bother saying this at all?

because assuming 'certain things' could be alignment indicative is a bit...pointless considering the reason I stated above.

[GeminiTwin12]

Hey

VOTE: Parachutes bc who needs 'em right?

This avoids contributing to anything game-related while also casting a vote outside the going wagons; avoiding notice[/quote]

My vote isn't serious.

[GeminiTwin12]

Gemini how would we ever leave RVS if nobody took a chance trying to get some info out of the game?

Even though your vote wasn't serious, it may have been an attempt to avoid attention. Why not join a forming wagon on Porkens instead of starting a new one?

True enough, you have a point.

Avoid attention from what? I'm not joining a wagon just to join one. Someone has to be giving me scummy vibes for me to.

[GeminiTwin12]

{tris, Porkens, Parachutes, LuckyOtter}
{Lost Ghosts, GeminiTwin12, apthet, Chito and Nuko}

I townlean top, null/lean scum bottom.

I can see why Tris & LuckyOtter are at the top, their questioning seems to feel more natural but why Porkens and Parachutes, I’m not getting much from them despite their postings.

[GeminiTwin12]

@apthet - Yeah, I feel like you're reaching here. In regards to mainly the latter of #126

[GeminiTwin12]

True but like in this instance, it's a bit worse.

[GeminiTwin12]

Gemini can you talk about how it's reaching? Like I think I get it but I'd like your perspective.

It's reaching because one was me simply trying to gain perspective on the reads list, I read iso's and I said how/why I could see LuckyOtter + Tris could be there and I said how I don't understand Porkens/Parachute so it's not like I said I disagree and left it at that. Then that would have been me saying stuff just to say it. That I could see how someone would take issue. You disagree, ok fine, why do you disagree with my opinion?

Also I don't understand how my response to a question pertaining to me not starting a wagon and alleged attention aversion is pretty bad, given the question in and of itself. This whole thing just feels empty to me.

[GeminiTwin12]

@apthet since you disagree, What about porkens postings so far makes you believe they could be town, I'm not feeling anything from them yet.

[GeminiTwin12]

my push on gemini is perfectly serious.

Curious. For what reasons exactly?

[GeminiTwin12]

So you don't have a legit reason bc if you did you'd have said as much and you wouldn't have made this overdramatic statement..

[GeminiTwin12]

Since we're at the serious stage of voting now, maybe one of you can answer my question with a serious response.

[GeminiTwin12]

Idk but there's something up with strongly calling a player garbage in their first post

I didn't call her garbage. I said the iso was full of garbage.

VOTE: GeminiTwin12

Okay this hard tunnel on Cheeky followed by the vote on Gemini is feeling suspicious to me.

233 is why I want to push this

I asked a specific question, his response felt fake/dramatic. It doesn't help me get a sense of where they're coming from.

[GeminiTwin12]

This is going to be amusing after the fact I'm sure considering I'm town here.

Hypocrisy at it's best. You've yet to answer the question I posed to you @porkens

[GeminiTwin12]

@apthet since you disagree, What about porkens postings so far makes you believe they could be town, I'm not feeling anything from them yet.

Check out my ISO -- the point about his early reads is basically the only thing.

Yeah, I saw that, it's still "not doing anything for me" - so to speak. (In regards to their postings)

[GeminiTwin12]

I'm going to let this wagon speak for itself.

The "whatever" I'm doing right now @Nomnomnom is wondering when anyone that's on my wagon will answer my question so I can try to see where you're coming from, so I can determine whether your thoughts are coming from a genuine place or not and right now, I'm leaning towards not because you both @Nomnomnom @porkens keep deflecting whatever I say - claiming i'm 'scumslipping" - (and can you explain that @porkens?) Because saying you think I'm scum and actually having a discussion about that are two different things, it's not productive at all.

[GeminiTwin12]

Gemini how much mafia have you played?

About 13 games give or take, Why?

[GeminiTwin12]

Nomnomnom's and porkens approach on this leaves a lot to be desired but I do believe that scum is somewhere on my wagon currently, taking advantage.

[GeminiTwin12]

I just didn't unvote them after rvs.

[GeminiTwin12]

Oh yes. Gemini please claim or forever hold your pieces.

Just a vanilla townie, it'll show when I'm hammered.

I'd obviously look into the people that were on my wagon. Good luck town, you're probably going to need it.

[GeminiTwin12]

Still no reads? Just saying people pushing you are scum?

Christ.

No, I don't have any real reads yet. D1's are hard for me to get into the groove of things, so to speak.
'

[GeminiTwin12]

@nom yeah, that's totally not what I implied. at all.

[GeminiTwin12]

Hi, that post was me pushing back on the idea that pressure should be taken off of gemini, not in defense of her

At no point did gemini try to use the holiday as a reason for her lack of contribution

it was a possibility that stemmed from my trying to find a charitable reason for her lack of engagement

gemini, why are finding this day 1 so much harder to get into than last game's d1? referring to schadd's silver series

-urap

Different atmosphere/feel of the game, There were few players I was familiar with there so I felt more confident with it.

[GeminiTwin12]

Different atmosphere/feel of the game, There were few players I was familiar with there so I felt more confident with it.

Is there something I/we could do to help you get your footing in this game?

-urap

I don't think so, I'll have to adapt as all.

[GeminiTwin12]

I don't think so, I'll have to adapt as all.

What if I was to ask you questions about specific posts, would that help?

-urap

Sure

[GeminiTwin12]

I'm laughing at cheeky's interactions and yours with Gemini. I find them absolutely mind-boggling to be frank with you. That has nothing to do with votes on me.

fair. so then, why are our interactions with gemini "mind boggling" and "deserving of ridicule?"

-urap

Because a conversation that goes like this:
"pls im lost and about to get hammered!!!! good luck town "
"STOP! Let that poor lost soul speak! It's probably the holidays! May I help you get back in this game?"
"huh i don't think so"
"a-ah can I at least ask questions"
"huh sure"

is bound to make me explode of laughter. Like holy shit.

This is what's rubbing me the wrong way figuratively. Overconfidence usually tends towards town traits impov but here it's just..coming across as ingenuine. I don't k now if it's a playstyle thing or what.

[GeminiTwin12]

I saw it, give me a few hours to sleep and I'll get to it. @Parachutes

[GeminiTwin12]

@gemini could you please answer 343 when you get a chance? thanks <3

-urap

To start, I must say that it should have been really obvious that it was RvS (it was still page 1)so CT asking if it is was a bit "huh?"
Trolling is only a towntell if said player does it only as town. If it's as both then it's nai. And still doing it on p2 still doesn't mean much to me. So I will agree with Nomnomnom's critique of that. The middle/latter of this interaction is just..not that deep. I don't think CT was discrediting, I think Nomnomnom was indeed reaching and (considering some posts in the current time), comes off as hypocritical on this one because CT did state that they "politely disagree" along with poking fun at the assessment. Like I said, it's not

that

deep.

I don't think it's SvS. I'm not getting a sense of that, I don't see how this interaction would be beneficial/helpful to them in that regard. This interaction doesn't make them look

all that

towny if that was their motive. This only "works" if this was to cover up/provide "reasoning" for how CT entered the game with a few questionable questions and lax town read on Tris, which feels a bit fetched.

Thinking that this interaction is AI depends on

why

you think so and

for whom.

It also depends on if the same behavior/pattern/approach is seen later on from both in other interactions. Could Nom be on to something in regards to CT's approach this game?

@Parachutes, talk to me about CT and why you're Townreading them.

Was Nom. just trying to be exploitative? Nomnomnom did seem to start off strong in their critique against CT, (Then fell off a bit at the end) I saw where that was coming from at least then.

I can't say TvT for sure because of how I feel about their slots & certain things in the game from them outside of this interaction. So I'm leaning more towards SvT being more likely right now.

[GeminiTwin12]

2. I don't like this attempt to force us into a particular direction, abnormal though the interaction may be:

At this point someone in the gemini/chutes/cheeky pair needs to flip because that interaction is not normal at all. Deflecting THIS hard on a VT claim that refuses to contribute even when pushed to L-1 is abnormal.

I'm fairly convinced that the way people interacted with Gemini is not natural and that there is scum intent, especially when it comes to the deflection out of nowhere. That's why I believe we probably should be looking for a Gemini/Chutes/Cheeky lynch. I liked Gemini's last post, and I think there are cases for her to be scum but I think it's less likely than a few other scenarios. I don't think Urap ever takes a 1v1 this far with me as scum, so I think that despite the weirdness with Gemini he's a townlean.

Going to respond to this bit. ^ Wouldn't it have been easier/better for scum to just agree, lynch me and end the day?

[GeminiTwin12]

Wouldn't it have been easier/better for scum to just agree, lynch me and end the day?

That argument is only good to invoke for Chutes since they weren't on the wagon. You also have to consider that Cheeky unvoted you fairly quickly after L-1 and forcing you to claim, which plays a factor in all of this.

This bit I will agree with because the thought progression leading up to them voting me is a bit lacking because in 168 -> "I think Gemini may be town." 308 thinks I'm scummy but inbetween, I don't know what they agree with to believe as such.

[GeminiTwin12]

If you already knew or figured that I was in fact a vt or town, then why a reaction test?

[GeminiTwin12]

@parachutes their reaction test earlier on my slot, gut feels legit to me hasn't followed up on that yet but that aside, I'm not seeing how they're the best lynch so far, I'm not seeing anything that stands out to me in their besides the above so can you explain how are they easily to be scum @porkens

[GeminiTwin12]

Yeah, I agree that the whole CT, Porkens, and Nom interaction/discussion felt weird, (I'm feeling like that one of them is scum here) as did the swift progression to AP's wagon. 405 of CT still isn't sitting all that well with me but I'll have to file that away for later.

C&N just mentioned something, about feeling like the apthet wagon "feel like it's a counterwagon to something" - Yeah, I can see why you'd think that. @C&N - after Nom expresses that "If I'm actually tunneling on town!cheeky this is a townloss so this is good for none of us." in 412, then CT brings up the vote for Apthet. I could see it as CT trying to move the conversation away from themselves onto someone else.

Yeah Nom. also has the potential to be scum as well, I agree that their tunnels on CT starting strong and fizzling out and then just to along with a lynch from someone they've been hard tunneling and thinking to be scum is suspect and yeah, I read their reasoning behind it. One thing I'm not getting is, in the case of Scum!Nom, why the hard tunnel on potential (for the sake of this thing here) town!Nom (& earlier myself) only to just switch off abruptly? Is Scum!Nom testing the waters for a lynch, seeing what's viable and what's not?

Not addressing Porkens in this post here because I'm trying to sort between Nom and CT for who could be town, and I think regardless Porkens has scum potential.

[GeminiTwin12]

Let me be clear: the weirdness of the interaction, from what I'm seeing, comes more from Gemini's responses than anything.

Can you explain?

[GeminiTwin12]

Let me be clear: the weirdness of the interaction, from what I'm seeing, comes more from Gemini's responses than anything.

Can you explain?

The point of the comment is that I'm townreading Parachutes, wanting to townread Cheeky, and literally 50/50 on you.

You were asked early on in the game to provide your scumreads (by Porkens), you never do, people start voting you (namely Porkens, nom), then you accuse them of not being transparent (which is why they were voting you in the first place).

Then, after several more requests to provide your reads, you still don't, until Parachutes draws them out of you, and even then it takes great effort. That's the weirdness of the interaction to me. Your reluctance despite Para and Cheeky affording you some breathing room (which doesn't seem as weird to me as it does to nom). It doesn't seem like town-motivated behavior, although I've seen defeated townies shut down before so I'm not going to be able to sort you on this interaction alone.

The difference between when Porkens asked me then was that it was page 3, I'll admit that I didn't make it easy for anyone to get real reads on me, I was having a hard time getting into the flow and when Parachutes asked me later it was pages later and they asked me specific questions to something specific. I asked them reasons for their votes because it provides insight into your motivations/intent and I felt like it was a little opportunistic.

Re: 454 it was geared towards C&N.

[GeminiTwin12]

{tris, Porkens, Parachutes, LuckyOtter}
{Lost Ghosts, GeminiTwin12, apthet, Chito and Nuko}
I townlean top, null/lean scum bottom.

Let me make it easy for you.
Legitimately.
100%.
The scumteam here is transparently, clear-as-day, every single post makes it clearer, apthet and GeminiTwin12.

This is on multiple levels.

One, literally every single player except for those two (ehhhh okay maybe at this point also Chito/Nuko) have shown themselves to be varying degrees of town. I can tell you why Porkens is town, Parachutes is town, LuckyOtter is town, Lost Ghosts is town, and you are town.

Two, apthet's been revealing herself to be obvscum with literally every single post she makes.
GeminiTwin's not as CLEARLY obvscum, but has posts that are far more likely to come from scum than town.
Chito/Nuko, while not being clearly obvious town to me, have also not so much as a single scum ping--which as far as I'm concerned, is good enough to make them town.

Pagetopping this.

Yeah, 100% no.If you're honestly banking our town win on you being right on me...we're in trouble.

@apthet - Yeah, I feel like you're reaching here. In regards to mainly the latter of #126

Yeah these interactions?

Scum-scum distancing.

Honestly, how is this distancing??

[GeminiTwin12]

the scumteam was informed that everyone was a VT--making Gemini claiming VT not be something I see as clearing. If the scum know that the game lacks PRs, then they have a fair idea of what (not) to claim

Wait a second. Are you really reading this game? You've missed a logical scumclaim here if you really believe this.

Interesting because earlier you said CT that you already knew that I was a VT, then said you meant that you knew I wasn't a PR and would have quicklynched me if I had and chalked up you putting me at L 1 as a reaction test.

[GeminiTwin12]

Yeah, I gathered that as well, this was more of a "Oh that could explain it" and "ok, what the f?" moment I had to express.

[GeminiTwin12]

I was gonna place you two at equal standing as far as potential scum opportunity but I'm leaning a little more towards Mastina for skimming and spewing out shit that ranks higher here and for the fact that you called yourself out on it for it lesser.

[GeminiTwin12]

I'm talking about the thought process here. You guys are going on a tangent because of someone describing a previous edition of this game and how it went, why would you assume this is the exact same configuration?

Like I don't know what's the recurring theme in these games are because I'm way too lazy to sit through those but like, really?

If mastina would have been reading the game, they would have to implicate CT as scum or at least entertain the possibility for the same reason I did, have done.

[GeminiTwin12]

Now the question is, was she bussing Ap or is otter her buddy seeing as she's not really giving much of a substance read there.

Eh, it would have been easier to just vote/start the wagon on me instead of Ap if AP was/is their partner right?

[GeminiTwin12]

I'm talking about the thought process here. You guys are going on a tangent because of someone describing a previous edition of this game and how it went, why would you assume this is the exact same configuration?

Like I don't know what's the recurring theme in these games are because I'm way too lazy to sit through those but like, really?

If mastina would have been reading the game, they would have to implicate CT as scum or at least entertain the possibility for the same reason I did, have done.

VOTE: Gemini
I should never have unvoted this in the first place.

You're really going to tell me that that's not a valid and fair thought?

[GeminiTwin12]

I'm more scumreading a slot that just slipped nom.

There was no scumslip. Get your act together at once. Mastina was describing that in the first edition of this game, the scum was informed that everyone was VT. What does it have to do with this game????

I said I already knew Gem was a VT. That means I'm scum according to that game but mastina says I'm town. So uh that's what it has to do with it.

Exactly, it appears that Mastina is very well spewing out reads regardless, that's the issue here. Sometimes it's about what you *don't* say.

[GeminiTwin12]

The problem is Mastina feels like they've solved the game and I'm telling you if you blindly follow along with their "reads" and not even question the basis for it, town is going to lose. If you want to lynch me to prove that I'm telling the truth, then by all means go ahead.

[GeminiTwin12]

How does this even make any damn sense?

[GeminiTwin12]

It’s so frustrating to get caught as scum and not know why (it’s all pro wrestling)

This is really going to be a tough one for town to win if this keeps up.

Y'all are missing the forest for the trees.

I don't save myself as scum because I'm really shit at it (go see for yourselves) nor do I drag a "partner" with me by bringing attention to the fact that they should and could be considered scum for the very same or similar reasoning I was. I'm not scum here.

[GeminiTwin12]

Re: 615

Spoiler:

I stand by my statement. Showing an unwillingness to even question the basis of someone's argument or even entertain the thought for the sake of conversation also isn't productive.

472 - Using rvs/joke votes to determine alignment. Saying I'm scum? For a joke vote.

474 - using the terms "clear as day" "transparent" without showing examples, postings anything feels like they're trying to give off the air of scum hunting, it feels surface level.

513- Reinforces my thought of Nom. Just being hard to read, I keep going back and forth on them.

516 - I already recently talked about it and how that assessment shows their logic here should also apply to CT, to whom they've town read where a feel like they have a legitimate chance of being scum here. It feeds into what I believe them to be doing, skinning through and then thinking they have the game already solved when I know for a fact they're incorrect on me. That's where I take issue.

Scum pool / middle, Null / town leaning for now

Cheakyteaky, Mastina
Nomnomom, Apathet, Porkins, C&N
Parachutes, luckyotter

[GeminiTwin12]

@nom
I've pondered the thought and questioned a few things in regards to CT (and yourself Nom), so it's not magical. I may not have actually stated the words scum pool earlier but the words scum and potential did come up together though.

[GeminiTwin12]

It was a joke. Parachutes, I said who needs em. You actually do when you're jumping out of a plane. I was trying to be funny. Goodness fucking gracious.

Mastina And Nom., are you so dead set sure that I'm scum so much to the point to where you won't even consider that you're incorrect on me? That you won't even discuss other possibilities?

[GeminiTwin12]

Yeah so essentially this isn't going to be productive. I've said what I had to say, given what I had to offer at this point, I'm not asking for chances,
I'm not obvious scum, just not having a good town game this time around.

[GeminiTwin12]

The things you're saying I'm scum for is what I do as town, I don't start wagons and I'm naturally an indecisive person. You can skim through a few of my games for that. If I was scum here, I would be "doing the most" to try and keep up appearances since the start of this and I would have placesd down a serious vote somewhere already.

[GeminiTwin12]

It is offensive when someone vocally expresses that they have been offended, you don't get to decide what's not, not when you've hurt or upset someone over it. This really shouldn't be debated.

[GeminiTwin12]

The game was moving along past this until you've brought this back and and made this not about mafia anymore. You could have just apologized and moved on instead of writing these long essays length posts about it. Because now it's just annoying as hell.

[GeminiTwin12]

If I had to pick someone to vote I would pick Chito and Nuko but I need to reread their posts.

What pinged you,- assuming since you're willing to vote them - enough about them to pick them?

[GeminiTwin12]

Now that I feel because 670 doesn't answer the why. It explains the what.

[GeminiTwin12]

Apthet you do realize that if you are town, you'd know damn well that we aren't partners and regardless of you wanting out, you're feeding into the claims that we are, which is - to be frank here, fucked up and now I'm irritated because it'll still be those who'll actually use this as further "proof"

[GeminiTwin12]

If it weren't for you meddling kids. *Eyerolls*

[GeminiTwin12]

Okay.

So I said "LuckyOtter, Parachutes, and C&N are at the bottom of my list", right?
Then Gemini said "why would you vote C&N specifically out of those three?"
And I explained "because I have seen towny posts from LuckyOtter and Parachutes."

I asked you why C&N specifically, what pinged you enough about them to vote them. And if you've seen towny posts from Parachutes, then why are they at the bottom of your reads list? Or am I missing something?

[GeminiTwin12]

Yeah..the second post you quoted was me questioning his reads lost of something specific and the first was me expressing dislike. You thinking it's not advancing my scumhunting is subjective to you.

[GeminiTwin12]

As much as I disagree with Mastina, I agree that they're likely to be town. I believe that scum is somewhere between CT, Nom and Porkens with it more likely being CT as scum but that's not happening today. So I'll settle with a apthet or C& N vote, I need to think about that a bit more.

Vote is still on parachutes because I didn't invite since rvs, already said it's not a serious vote.

[GeminiTwin12]

It sure didn't feel like you were scum reading cheakyteaky while you were talking about mastina w/ her?

It sure didn't feel like you were scum reading cheakyteaky while you were talking about mastina w/ her?

Hmm? It's scum/middle-null/town. I don't really get what you're saying specifically. Mastina was really on my scum radar until recently. They were doing too damn much to be scum, to put it simply. - I'm not sure on Apthet, I can't tell if they're flailing in their more recent posts or have simply given up. Idk, it's d1 and as scum, you really don't want to have to lose a scumbuddy so early unless you're confident/capable in your scum abilities to carry the rest.

[GeminiTwin12]

Which really pissed me off because it's an anti town thing to do they chalked it up to it being an attempt at a joke and incompetent.

[GeminiTwin12]

Might as well, I feel like it's the only way it's going to be cleared up so town can move on and actually find scum.

[GeminiTwin12]

So who else is likely to be scum here Parachutes?

[GeminiTwin12]

But neither of you thought to track me considering you both seem to believe that I'm scum?

I would have joined the wagon on Apthet instead of giving reason why they probably town.

[GeminiTwin12]

VOTE: nomnomnom

What's your insight/reasoning into this?

[GeminiTwin12]

No, mastina is 100% incorrect on this and will lead to another town lost that we really don't need considering the other two.

Right now I'm comfortable with C&N being my vote today.

[GeminiTwin12]

Because their iso just feels like they're fencesitting a lot of the time

[GeminiTwin12]

Right now, going off the the assumption that Mastina+Nom. are telling the truth, that leaves four, with two being scum, that's something to go on for now at least.

Lucky Otter being tracked and the result obviously doesn't clear them 100%. I want to hear more from CT though.

@Parachutes

what prompted you to switch votes to Apathet last day phase?

[GeminiTwin12]

Oh yeah, that definitely crossed my mind when I first read it. It initially felt too good to be true, felt convenient. I wondered if scum would actually just..out themselves like that, yeah, if you're confident/strong player you could pull it off but I can't get caught up on this type of *if* right now because - as of right now we don't have anyone or anything to refuse what you two have said. So I'll take note of it and try to keep a broader perspective.

[GeminiTwin12]

Oh yeah, that definitely crossed my mind when I first read it. It initially felt too good to be true, felt convenient. I wondered if scum would actually just..out themselves like that, yeah, if you're confident/strong player you could pull it off

but I can't get caught up on this type of *if* right now because - as of right now we don't have anyone or anything to refuse what you two have said. So I'll take note of it and try to keep a broader perspective.

I think the bolded is scummy

I'm trying to be objective, there's nothing scummy about it. I don't want to get tunnel this, I'll keep note of it but there are other things that need to be sorted as well.

[GeminiTwin12]

Re: 814

Can you expand on that thought?

Right before the bolded, gemini implies that scum would be unlikely to act a certain way, but that a good player could pull off such behaviors. I should have highlighted this part, too.

The bolded is a deflection from discussion on the read - "but I can't get caught up on this type of *if* right now"

I included that implication of scum acting a certain way due to the nature of this hypothetical!play - which would be a very bold play. I've played games where this has happened so it's caused some paranoia for me.

How is that different from when you just said "I'm inclined to believe the claims until I have reason not to". I'm essentially saying I have to go with this while acknowledging that I could be overthinking it and I don't want to get caught up on it yet, overthinking and over analyzing certain things caused me miss what was in front of me. The "take note" I meant that literally. I literally take notes and will have to reexamine Mastina+Nom if by some chance who I think is scum flips town. You're making a mountain out of a molehill with this.

Let's take this back to the ending of the last day phase, you voted Apthet after recently stating you thought them to be town. 772 then 776 I asked for your reasoning for this then 806 - it's not setting right with me.

[GeminiTwin12]

I have never been this frustrated and frankly annoyed in a game until one.

[GeminiTwin12]

Also, CT, you just come on in, drop a vote on me and have nothing else to add to add to anything huh?

[GeminiTwin12]

Nom, if you're not even going to take the time to actually discuss or question anything I've said, you might as well drop a vote alongside all your accusations against me and stop wasting your time as well because it makes absolutely no sense for me to be scum with anyone here. I'm happy to hear how this makes sense to you.

[GeminiTwin12]

I've literally been questioning this shit since day one but you've been tunnelling me all fucking game so maybe some things were missed.

Too bad because I take offense.

Who's my partner then.

[GeminiTwin12]

VOTE: Gemini

Good Luck.

[GeminiTwin12]

At least we're on the same page on something.

[GeminiTwin12]

Hold on

UNVOTE:

[GeminiTwin12]

VOTE: Chito & Nuko