The Newbie 2d3 stats thread (upd. 2019-05-28, 87g)

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah the deadline thing makes a lot of sense. Part of some scum wins in the newbie forum is apathy and time for newbscum to gain their footing. The shorter deadlines have cut back on both (potentially a good thing in the case of the former, potentially a bad thing in the case of the latter)

I think Creature's complaint in a recent newbie is also a valid one on behalf of scum

If we're okay with doing things we wouldn't do elsewhere on the site to maximize the amount of fun newbies have, I'm kinda okay with a townsided setup - makes for more newb winners per game.

But some setups do feel less like mafia and more like a semi-broken PR puzzle, which is antithetical to MafiaScum's emphasis on dayplay and should probably be fixed

[Irrelephant11]

Someone suggested my recent Choose Your Own Adventure semi-open could be a newbie setup. I'm not sure, but I thought I'd share it here anyway in case it can somehow add to this discussion in a helpful way.

I think this setup might be lightly townsided (to balance for MS's oft-scumsided dayplay meta), but here it is anyway:

Real submission

choose your own adventure

7v2

Pre-game, or maybe during a short pregame discussion phase (undecided on this), each player privately submits the letter I, P, or V. Based on the number of each letter, the setup is determined. If there are an odd number of I or P submissions, one of that letter becomes a V.

(I)nformative

0 I’s: Named townie
2: Parity Neapolitan (receives results in the form “Result A” and “Result B”. Each corresponds to “is vanilla townie” or “is not vanilla townie”, but the neap doesn’t know which is which)
4: 1-shot cop
6: Cop
8: Jailkeeper

(P)rotective:

0: 1-shot bulletproof
2: Bodyguard
4: 1-shot jailkeeper
6: Doctor
8: Jailkeeper

(V)anilla:

9: 2 loud goons
7: Loud goon and goon
5: 2 goons
3: 1-shot mafia Rolecop and goon
1: 1-shot mafia strongman and goon

So each of the 15 possible setups should look like

“Informative town role”
“Protective town role”
5 vts

2 mafia of some kind

Town power roles are always assigned to a townie who submitted an “I” or “P”, if possible (in this way, townies who like rolling vt can nearly guarantee it, and those who like being a PR can increase their chances).
Similarly, if one scum gives a V and the other doesn’t, the less powerful role (if applicable) will be given to the scum who submitted a V.

Scum have daychat and are multitasking.

Spoiler: possible setups

Named townie
1-shot bulletproof
5 vts
2 loud goons

Parity neapolitan
1-shot bulletproof
5 vts
Loud goon & goon

1-shot cop
1-shot bulletproof
5 vts
2 goons

Cop
1-shot bulletproof
5 vts
1-shot rolecop & goon

Jailkeeper
1-shot bulletproof
5 vts
1-shot strongman & goon

Named townie
Town bodyguard
5 vts
Loud goon & goon

Parity Neapolitan
Town bodyguard
5 vts
2 goons

1-shot cop
Town bodyguard
5 vts
1-shot rolecop & goon

Cop
Town bodyguard
5 vts
1-shot strongman & goon

Named townie
1-shot jailkeeper
5 vts
2 goons

Parity Neapolitan
1-shot jailkeeper
5 vts
1-shot rolecop & goon

1-shot cop
1-shot jailkeeper
5 vts
1-shot strongman & goon

Named townie
Doctor
5 vts
1-shot rolecop & goon

Parity Neapolitan
Doctor
5 vts
1-shot strongman & goon

Named townie
Jailkeeper
5 vts
1-shot strongman & goon

[Irrelephant11]

Oh I agree that if the setup I just posted is used in anyway it would have to be overhauled for newbie friendliness (remove the letter picking in favor of random generation, make the scum 1-shots factional, etc).

Are there any open setups that aren't semi-opens that could just *be* the newbie setup? Something like a micro Watchers Wanted or Marked for Death?

[Irrelephant11]

Hey guys I have a question

WHAT is the purpose of the newbie queue?

[Irrelephant11]

I think Creature's complaint in a recent newbie is also a valid one on behalf of scum

I think this ^ (making scum abilities factional rather than assigning them to a slot) would be a good simple change if we're looking to keep things relatively similar to the way they are but help scum out a bit.
--> You could alternatively add a rule like "all power roles stop working after night 2" because scum PRs on night 3+ are usually too little too late to be helpful and town PRs past N2 are often gamebreaking in town's favor

If we're looking to really overhaul the setup somewhat to represent how MS likes diffused/complex town and scum power (because swinginess and follow the cop are bad), then I think it could be interesting to, say, make next month's setup challenge a "design a new newbie" challenge and see if that gets us anywhere helpful.

[Irrelephant11]

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79880

[Irrelephant11]

I mean your conclusion simply matches what has already been suggested in this thread: strengthen scum to match the use of TPRs

[Irrelephant11]

I mean your conclusion simply matches what has already been suggested in this thread: strengthen scum to match the use of TPRs

Ok. I apologize for trying to contribute. I promise not to try again.

Oh no that’s not what I mean at all! I think the question of “could newbies win mountainous” is fascinating and I liked your experiment very much!
I just thought it was worth adding that “town PRs might be too much for these newbies” is one solution to the problem - and another is “if town should have power, scum should have more power”, which is something that’s already been suggested here.

Your contribution shows me we’re on the right track

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah I remember a year ago reading Mafia Discussion threads about how MS is a scumsided website for playing Mafia online
I’m not sure if it’s in reaction to that general conversation or not but I personally feel towns are stronger than when I first arrived on the scene

[Irrelephant11]

I'll just ask this thread if anyone has the time to check that all these recent town wins are legitimate, given recent proof of cheating onsite.