open 759: house party (compleded)

[Hell Knight]

My questions to you still stands, Pers.

What question was that?
-Pers

[Hell Knight]

I also don’t like your PP null read

PP has made enough posts for people to have a solid opinion on him...I get your reasoning on keeping him in your null pile but it just seems non commital

-bae

Caught up through page 20.

I don't grok how hellknight reads the thread

This is a hydra. First post above is from bae, who's been here from the start. Second is from me. I didn't know the game was up until 20 pages had passed, so I did two 10-page catchups.
-Pers

[Hell Knight]

I for one would like explanations for why some of you instead of trying to convince people to follow your strategy or agreeing on a strategy just left it to chance.

gIVING PROVERN PERCY HIS CHANCE TO NOT BE SCUM



[SIZE=5OO]YOU PING ME BRO[/SIZE]

^This is your brain on drugs.

Any questions?

[Inbred Lannisters]

Persivul, are you around?

-Joff

[Inbred Lannisters]

Baezu has not been answering any of my questions.
I'm struggling to understand her motivations for various posts of hers through the thread.
Did she attempt communicate her thought processes to you while you were off? Have you discussed reads now, or are you two posting completely independently as you catch up?

-Jeff

[Yumeko Jabami]

Whats your read on penguinpower and titus with regard to the just right before the heal mechanic locked in?

Whats your read on their actions right before the heal mechanic locked in?

You mean letting the party be random? There's nothing wrong with that at all, they're fine.

What's HK at right now?

hk is an easy out lynch. i dont like LHF lynches as a rule; they havent been here, but I def scumread the,

I think they're town, I just still think they're more than likely to end up costing us the game at this point (in addition to making the rest of the game a lot less fun).

Hi after the part is not when you do this indepth analysis on IL
We need a wagon today, the hk focus is weak

Im really wary of all this focus on

1: the hood composition post-formation
2: Assuming theres a deepwolf post-formation
3: Pushing a lurker wagon like its a civic duty


its really shit

wtf is wrong with you people. havent you ever heard that activity!=Alignment.

VOTE: mary

Your focus on not wanting HK to be lynched because of lurking seems out of place here. I don't think anybody is arguing that they should be lynched for lurking, but rather because they're scummy - there's no reason to give them a free pass just because they're lurking. Also, you say you scumread them... why not push the lynch through, then? Is this not beneficial to you? But you seem to be defending them pretty hard for some reason and it's throwing me off.

I want you to ignore your general read and look at the party votes and his last few posts.

From the party votes, I'd say it's likelier that Hell Knight is scum over PenguinPower.

Noting that scum wouldn't want to send two of themselves to a party of four, but exactly one - suggests that two scum won't both vote on a heal that contains both of them. I'm also making the weak assumption that scum would not want to send two town to the party either; so Fus willing to send me and Duppin *and* Duppin willing to send me and Fus *and* is slightly town indicative.

Thing is, I can imagine town Penguin doing what he did this game. There are scummier slots like Mary and HK; I'd lynch there first.

Also, I think I'm adding Skygazer to my lynchpool. Not giving reasons now.

-Jeff

This is interesting, but kind of doesn't make sense to me. Here is what Hell Knight was voting:

Hell Knight, PenguinPower, Raya36, Skygazer (3):

Yumeko Jabami, PenguinPower, Hell Knight

He was voting himself into the group that Skygazer was also a part of - you suggest that scum wouldn't want to do that, but also say you're adding Skygazer to the lynch pool. Is this just 2 sides of a coin where it's either Hell Knight or Skygazer to you?

I have more to say about this. But I'd like to hear Yumekos thoughts on the party votes and penguinpower first.

I don't think you need to wait for me, and would prefer if you didn't, I don't think that what you're asking me is particularly special where you need to wait for me.

So we went from "I'm not an idiot, of course I knew it wasn't a hammer" and the reason is because, after it looked like there were 8 votes on me, you went back and looked over the lynch mechanics again,

for seemingly no reason

,

I'd say the fact that the thread didn't close was plenty of reason to review the mechanics.

This argument that HK put forth shows that they haven't really been reading the interaction in question. The votecount didn't show up until around post 800, while what is being referenced is a post around 580 or so - it's not a matter of the threat locking or not.

But really, Hellknight is the best vote today, the fact that I got run up to 8 votes while hell knight did nothing and nobody was interested in voting him should speak volumes, it's highly scum indicative, their posting is contradictory, they're not answering questions that come directly after their posting, etc. It's hard to think of an argument for keeping him around, and yet people seem reluctant to vote for them

Here's an argument - I'm here now. Let me catch up.
-Pers

Oh please I don't like begging, and that's not an argument

So you think all scum voted on you or? And does that mean you believe there are only town in the party?

Not necessarily - I believe that everybody who voted me is scummy to some extent, but not all necessarily scum with each other. If they are scum then logically the chances of the party having scum go down as well, but I wasn't thinking about that

Yumeko (I do like your interactions with RedPanda, but not really a fan of you calling everyone your wagon scummy. I understand some people might argue that could be a slight town tell but that is actually the reason I dislike it. It felt more like you tried to came up with a reason for finding everyone on your wagon suspicious rather than actually thinking they were scummy. You also didn't really comment on the party, it might not be fair of me to expect that from you given you are under a lot of pressure, but given I find you slightsly suspicious the fact that you didn't comment on the wagon while implying all scum voted on you makes me more worried about the party having a scum in it. This obviously only makes sense if you are actually scum though.

Well let's clear something up - I'm not so much under a lot of pressure as I am receiving a lot of votes. As I pointed out, many of those votes were for no reason at all. As for the party... I'm not too concerned about there being scum or not in it right now, what do you think I need to comment on, and why should I be concerned with the party more than what I'm talking about?

Top lynch choices rn are: Yumeko, Mary

-Pers (last post was me too)

Why...? That's not what you said earlier.

Wait...why no vote on HK?

My vote is already on them, but imagine I doubled down on my vote

Now they're not just being voted for being kind of suspicious, now there is substantial reasoning for lynching them

We are a hydra, Yumeko. The vote on you came from me - bae, the null read was from persi. It’s that simple. Honestly you’re not doing much in my book to move you into a town slot so I’m pretty happy where my vote is

-bae

According to the reads list you guys posted... you shouldn't be happy where your vote is, because I'm dead null as you said.

Joffrey whats your read on penguin?

Think I mentioned this before. I'm leaning scum, but I dunno. Nancy however thinks he's obvscum.

-Joff

I want you to ignore your general read and look at the party votes and his last few posts.

If nance thinks he’s obvscum and we think he’s scum, let’s vote here

VOTE: PP

I think he was buddying us when he proposed us for the party

And I fell for it

-bae

What was the point of the last post where you said you were happy with your vote? Feels like posturing now since you did in fact change it.

Red panda injected enough energy into the game that I would not lynch him.

Why is injecting energy into the game a reason not to lynch someone?

Do you think they're town or do you have other reasons for not wanting to lynch?

I'm suffering though the Yumeko, Red Panda stuff at the moment, and probably not reading it as closely as I should, but Yumeko, why do you Mary will confess to thinking that she was quick hammering you?

I mean, she might not. We can wait to see what she says. I think it's notable that she's due for a prod now - possibly because she thought the game moved into the night phase and didn't feel any urgency in logging back on to do anything. That's just a theory though - Isn't it better to ask Mary than to ask me what I think Mary will do?

I also don’t like your PP null read

PP has made enough posts for people to have a solid opinion on him...I get your reasoning on keeping him in your null pile but it just seems non commital

-bae

Caught up through page 20.

I don't grok how hellknight reads the thread

This is a hydra. First post above is from bae, who's been here from the start. Second is from me. I didn't know the game was up until 20 pages had passed, so I did two 10-page catchups.
-Pers

Being a hydra doesn't give you diplomatic immunity to:
1) being lynched
2) being questioned

[Yumeko Jabami]

My suspicions on uncle bob have faded as I learn more about what kind of a player he is (kind of clueless/aloof/just popping in to say things). That is, I don't think what he did is suspicious coming from him anymore

I don't want to switch tracks and Lynch Mary today, and they should get a chance to explain themself first. I still think lynching Hell Knight is what makes the most sense, as they are the scummiest player. Additionally, lynching HK provides further insight on both the party and on the wagon on myself that built up, and even this wagon on mary that is overtaking HK

[Inbred Lannisters]

He was voting himself into the group that Skygazer was also a part of - you suggest that scum wouldn't want to do that, but also say you're adding Skygazer to the lynch pool. Is this just 2 sides of a coin where it's either Hell Knight or Skygazer to you?

I added Sky to my lynchpool for different reasons, as I said.
In my first sentence I meant that I don't believe

both

Penguin and Hell Knight would be scum, and HK would definitely be scum out of the two. This was because scum wouldn't want to add two of them to the pool.

My reasoning for Skygazer wasn't her inclusion the {HK, PP, Raya, Sky} party - rather that she independently gains some scum equity following the assumption that the party has one scum in it. It's a no-cost assumption, because in the universe where it's incorrect, we win anyway. Indeed, I doubt she'd be scum along with HK/PP/Raya, with earlier logic.

-Joff

[Titus]

My suspicions on uncle bob have faded as I learn more about what kind of a player he is (kind of clueless/aloof/just popping in to say things). That is, I don't think what he did is suspicious coming from him anymore

I don't want to switch tracks and Lynch Mary today, and they should get a chance to explain themself first. I still think lynching Hell Knight is what makes the most sense, as they are the scummiest player. Additionally, lynching HK provides further insight on both the party and on the wagon on myself that built up, and even this wagon on mary that is overtaking HK

What do you think of how easy the wagon was to build on Mary and that no one has asked me why mary?

[Yumeko Jabami]

My suspicions on uncle bob have faded as I learn more about what kind of a player he is (kind of clueless/aloof/just popping in to say things). That is, I don't think what he did is suspicious coming from him anymore

I don't want to switch tracks and Lynch Mary today, and they should get a chance to explain themself first. I still think lynching Hell Knight is what makes the most sense, as they are the scummiest player. Additionally, lynching HK provides further insight on both the party and on the wagon on myself that built up, and even this wagon on mary that is overtaking HK

What do you think of how easy the wagon was to build on Mary and that no one has asked me why mary?

Again, it just shows how hard it is to get a wagon on HK. Nobody asked why I was being run up either (except for me) - but there are people defending HK when he gets run up

[Fuscosco]

hmmmm?

I have more respect for percy than that. And I believe bae is really busy.

Im not saying theyre town im saying its not the best lynch today. What do you only have 1 scumread? In a large game, why are you _not_ willing to look at several people?

Do you SR any of the defenders? Would lynching an association of hk today appease you?

[Fuscosco]

Its weird to think scum want to powerwolf into the hood on D1 instantly and that you cant accept multiple viable wagons. Its really narrow

[Fuscosco]

And ftr Im of the opinion that scum would want to keep the hood as diluted as possible. Weaken it by adding noone or everyone.

[Inbred Lannisters]

Joffrey whats your read on penguin?

Think I mentioned this before. I'm leaning scum, but I dunno. Nancy however thinks he's obvscum.

-Joff

I want you to ignore your general read and look at the party votes and his last few posts.

If nance thinks he’s obvscum and we think he’s scum, let’s vote here

VOTE: PP

I think he was buddying us when he proposed us for the party

And I fell for it

-bae

This feels completely fake. The party that Penguin was pushing consisted of himself and widely scumread players (HK, Skygazer, Raya36):

HEAL: PenguinPower, Skygazer, Raya36, Hell Knight

If I have to wear a bowtie, I'm rocking the cane, monocle, and tophat as well.



My first party...I'm so excited.

So he obviously wasn't "buddying" you by pushing that party, because the party consisted of scummy players. And you're not only claiming that he buddied you, but that you "fell for it" and only realized it now, after you thought Nancy declared Penguin "obvscum?" (which she didn't actually say that Penguin is obvscum)

Im really wary of all this focus on

1: the hood composition post-formation
2: Assuming theres a deepwolf post-formation
3: Pushing a lurker wagon like its a civic duty


its really shit

Same

I feel like is scum subterfuge and obfuscation- kirari doesn’t seem like the scum in all of this and neither do the Lannisters, Red panda is prob also town so it’s making yumeko look worse and worse

-bae

The tone and language of "scum subterfuge and obfuscation" feels exaggerated and fake. There's also really no explanation of how the "scum subterfuge and obfuscation" has anything to do with "making Yumeko look worse and worse".

I’m really not liking duppin’s reads

At all

-bae

Duppin is bleeding obvtown. This attempt at shading him is really bad.

I didn’t like the fact that raya and Mary were scummy in your list

They haven’t been very active, so why aren’t they null?

Mary has been a lot less active lately, but she had a lot of readable content earlier in the game, including her defense of you and her push on our slot. So why can’t Duppin have a genuine scumread on Mary based on the content that she does have in this game?

I also don’t like your PP null read

PP has made enough posts for people to have a solid opinion on him...I get your reasoning on keeping him in your null pile but it just seems non commital

-bae

This doesn't make sense if you really believe that Duppin should be nullreading Mary. Penguin has produced readable content, but so has Mary. Why is it unacceptable for him to have a nullread on Penguin, but you take issue with him scumreading Mary? Perhaps he finds Mary easier to read than Penguin. Your grasping at straws and shading an obvtown slot.

Caught up through page 20.
- duppin: entrance and subsequent play is fine, but he's too good as town and scum to read this early.
- Penguin: doing nothing, but then put out a couple reads. Looking townier but adopting a Not Mafia playstyle, which I would be glad to PL at any time.
-

Lannisters: not happy to learn that Auro's in the group. That took them down to null for me. BUT, I like that he called out Bae for not posting - not so much in an accusatory way, but seemed like he really wants input. Up to lean town

.
- Fusco: page 14 note: "Fusco looks bad this page. Maybe scum that made a strong opening and is now coasting?"
- Titus is looking better. At first the

I need VCs

shtick seemed off, but she's looking better as she goes.
- Red Panda seems obvtown

Yeah, I'm not buying your "read progression" on our slot at all. I don't buy that Auro's mere presence in our hydra initially dropped us down to a nullread for you. Yes, Auro has won several scum games by deepwolfing, but he also has a really solid town game (see: Starcraft II for example) and as Nomination Mafia proved, it is possible to distinguish town!Auro from scum!Auro if you really know what to look for and know how Auro plays on a deep level. Auro's skill at deepwolfing aside, he's obvtown in this game and I'm not buying this narrative that you had concerns about him being a deepwolf.

You also said here that Penguin is "looking townier", but you still have your vote on him, and Baezu even wanted to lynch Penguin because she falsely believed that Nancy said he is "obvscum". And you said here that you would like to lynch either Yumeko or Mary:

Top lynch choices rn are: Yumeko, Mary

-Pers (last post was me too)

So why are you still voting for Penguin? And who do you think is scummier between Yumeko and Mary?

Lastly, you said that Fusco's posts on page 14 were bad. These were all of Fusco's posts on page 14:

it's a very titus idea

my issue with it is one of preference.

I haven't really sorted this game. Ill look today or tomorrow.

I don't think that forcing scum into the party intentionally is good.

I dont think putting 'popular' players into the party is good.

I dont think putting 5 players that you cant 100 read or lynch without social dramahs is good

The hood should be used to restrict kills, not sus out theories.

Which of those posts did you find scummy, and why? And why did you say that Fusco had a strong opening but now appears to be coasting? I don't think that Fusco's play has changed significantly from the beginning of the game up to now.

- Cersei Lannister (Volxen)

[Inbred Lannisters]

HK should definitely be lynched today. I'm completely convinced that their slot is a scum slot.

- Cersei Lannister (Volxen)

[Titus]

Lannisters, tell me where you want my vote. I'm fading again. I think the Mary experiment will be useful in VCA though.

[Inbred Lannisters]

Lannisters, tell me where you want my vote. I'm fading again. I think the Mary experiment will be useful in VCA though.

HK should definitely be lynched today. I'm completely convinced that their slot is a scum slot.

- Cersei Lannister (Volxen)

~T

[Titus]

VOTE: HK

I may change this if I feel better later.

[Kirari Momobami]

Spoiler:

vote count 1b.1

lynch

Hell Knight (4):

Yumeko Jabami, duppin, Edgar Allan Foe, Inbred Lannisters

Yumeko Jabami (3):

Uncle Bob, RedPanda, Mary Saotome

PenguinPower (2):

Kirari Momobami, Hell Knight

not voting (5):

Raya36, Skygazer, PenguinPower, Titus, Fuscosco

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. day 1 ends june 6th at 12:20 central US time; in (expired on 2019-06-06 12:20:00)

mod notes

• titus is VLA
  
• kind of forgot about this for abt 3 hours

If nance thinks he’s obvscum and we think he’s scum, let’s vote here

Why does Nancy's view strengthen yours?

I think he was buddying us when he proposed us for the party

I literally copy/pasted Kirari's suggestion...

Like...wut?

And I fell for it

Fake fake fake fake.

VOTE: Hell Knight

VOTE: hk

VOTE: HK

I may change this if I feel better later.

think that's L-1?

Fine with HK going but it's time for reads lists from anyone who thinks they're townread outside the party

[Kirari Momobami]

House Pets
Inbred Lannisters (volxen, Auro, Nancy Drew 39)

Edgar Allan Foe - duppin

Fuscosco


Fun Party
Titus - Yumeko Jabami - RedPanda

Uncle Bob - Raya36 / Skygazer
Mary Saotome
PenguinPower

Hell Knight

HK red flip might adjust my read of Penguin but probably not by much?

Even if I pre-flip fusco I don't think fusco/hk/PP is a solid solve, doesn't smell right

I feel like Uncle Bob/Raya/Sky is my null line, but I kinda don't feel like Uncle Bob and Raya are null in the same way as Sky for me. Sky is more a "I think one thing makes her town, but if I'm wrong on that one thing then she's very likely scum" -- don't want to go into more on this cause I don't think it helps anyone other than me keep track of my thoughts. I was actually townleaning Raya from her entrance but her inability to sustain has that kinda slipping back to null for me. Bob, having no content, could easily go either way.

Likewise Mary isn't really a scumlean even, I more just feel like I should be townleaning her by now and I'm not and that level of underwhelming puts her slightly below null for me.

Penguin has seemed slightly more townish since starting his push on HK but I don't know that I can rule out S/S there quite yet. If I'm not dead tomorrow I'll need to reevaluate Penguin and see how I feel about his slot.

In terms of the towns, Titus I still feel reacted in a relatively townish manner to my push but sometimes my realtime reaction tests are not as reliable as I'd like. I think the slot is town but I don't fault those who are not convinced. Red Panda feels very town to me but I think he has a real playstyle conflict and I find his evasiveness distracting and when he starts hedging I second guess my read. Yumeko's catchup in response to her near-lynch feels pretty town.

[Kirari Momobami]

I'm actually pretty okay with day ending with an HK lynch at this point. I'd like to see day-end lists from Yumeko and Red Panda, but I don't want that so much I'd stall the day unless they actually wanted to do lists.

[Fuscosco]

HURT: hk

[Fuscosco]

I dont get the null reads on me.

[Titus]

In terms of the towns, Titus I still feel reacted in a relatively townish manner to my push but sometimes my realtime reaction tests are not as reliable as I'd like. I think the slot is town but I don't fault those who are not convinced.

Fair read. My recovery has not gone as planned.

[Kirari Momobami]

In case the structure of my house pets list is unclear, I'm not null reading fusco

Lannisters - town

Clegane and Qyburn - null

fusco - scum