Mini Normal 2080 ft. My Cats [Game Over]

[Cinnamon]

I have no idea how to play this role so I'll say this: part of my role is that I am a miller.

[Cinnamon]

VOTE: No Lynch
Let's get this wagon going

[Cinnamon]

It's not so much that I don't understand how to play a miller it's that I don't understand why I'm a miller and something else.

[Cinnamon]

That is correct, I believe my ability would be classified as a town pr. I don't think this would count as a role modifier.

[Cinnamon]

Actually sorry, I just read the mafiawiki page. The extra part of my role is a role modifier.

[Cinnamon]

Yeah if I'm forced to reveal my role I'll explain why I was confused there.

I have played a bunch IRL, I've played like 4 marathons on here and a bit on other random sites.

[Cinnamon]

Just because I'm inexperienced on this site doesn't mean I'm that inexperienced at mafia; I've played probably 100 games or so IRL.

I find it odd that you think it's more likely that, as a new player, I would be mafia who's trying to look confused as a miller rather than actually just being a miller. It's a terrible plan to start with; every miller claim I've seen has lead to something that looks exactly like this where there's tons of pressure on them right when they claim. Furthermore, as I am extremely new here I think it would be quite daunting to try to fake confusion right at the beginning of the game. I'm also basically asking to be lynched at some point as I don't think me being alive late in the game will help town.

[Cinnamon]

Hm- the bunny seems to have some fight left in him.
I will crush it.

I've played probably 100 games or so IRL.

Newbie card revoked. Noted.

It's a terrible plan to start with; every miller claim I've seen has lead to something that looks exactly like this where there's tons of pressure on them right when they claim

Your point being? How many miller claims actually get lynched D1? I've seen this- miller claims get a nice buzz of discussion, then people decide to move on and play the game. You're experienced enough to know that town won't tunnel you to death in the first 10 pages or so at which point the ebb and flow of the game will shift in your favor.

Furthermore, as I am extremely new here I think it would be quite daunting to try to fake confusion right at the beginning of the game

The best lies are the ones that have a dose of truth into them. You are new- yes. You're also tapping into that newbiness to fuel your fake miller claim.
HOWEVER- now that you're caught/exposed/pushed, you're steadily dropping the newbie-pretense. This is disharmony and dissonance that does not sit quite right with me.

I'm also basically asking to be lynched at some point as I don't think me being alive late in the game will help town.

Right.
Millers have made it to end game. What's that legendary game where there were 5 legitimate miller claims and they were all honest and 4 of them endgamed that people keep bringing up every time?
Scum fake-claiming millers have also made it to end game. I should know- I fell for almost all of them, typically because I used to rely on big authority figures telling me exactly the same shtick you're pushing.

And let's not forget: you've "MODIFIED" the traditional miller claim- hey your modification brings town utility (because of course it does) and will leave scum guessing (who coached you to say that?) to slightly alleviate the above concerns.

TL;DR- I do not buy this capitalist pig's evil western propaganda.

I'm wasn't trying to say that I'm new, I'm saying that the argument you made thinking that I was new doesn't make sense to me looking from the perspective of somebody who thinks that I'm new.

I'm not sure what you mean by "leave scum guessing", I don't believe I said anything to that effect. Could you elaborate on that? Other people, such as Nero Cain, may have commented to that effect instead.

[Cinnamon]

Who do you think is scum, cinnabunny?

I don't have any scum reads at the moment but I think what Vorkuta is doing here is likely to come from a town agenda. I also like urap2 but I feel that way whenever I read a game with him in it.

[Cinnamon]

I didn't realize Spicy was a role modifier. "Cinnamon Miller." Does that mean that the booze is spicy too?

Is there booze with cinnamon in it? That would absolutely be me

[Cinnamon]

I'm not sure Nero, you're asking questions but to me I don't see where your head is at yet.

[Cinnamon]

I have no idea how to play this

=attempted appeal at "guys please cut me some slack"
Fine- it's not explicitly "new" so much as "inexperienced with this particular thingamajiggy"
Either way your initial claim and the "follow-up" afterwards does not seem honest and attempts to play at our subconscious

I'm not sure what you mean by "leave scum guessing", I don't believe I said anything to that effect. Could you elaborate on that? Other people, such as Nero Cain, may have commented to that effect instead.

Oh come on.
"just because I didn't come out and say it and let some one else say it for me, means that this mechanical point is completely moot and invalid"
But I'll bite.
You're slightly modifying the traditional miller fake-claim (which might be a bit too old/stale for your liking idk) with a bit of spice "I'm a MODIFIED miller gaiz".
By not claiming the modifier, you're injecting a LAMIST aspect to your claim by (allegedly) making "scum" waste their time and scratch their heads. It's great.

My reason for saying that was actually more of an appeal to mechanics rather than the subconscious. When I saw my role, I felt like I shouldn't be playing it like a regular miller but I wasn't sure so I felt like coming out as a miller was a weaker, albeit safer play.

Nah that actually clarified it for me. I can certainly see your point.

[Cinnamon]

I'm not sure Nero, you're asking questions but to me I don't see where your head is at yet.

I only let ppl really close to me watch me on webcam but you'll have to trust me that my head is on my shoulders.

I misrepped myself. my head is on my neck which is connected to my shoulders.

Misrep = scum

Boom I have a scumread

[Cinnamon]

VOTE: teacher

I can't listen to scum so I guess I'm sheeping a town read

[Cinnamon]

As an aside, I just googled Vorkuta and learned that it's the easternmost town in Europe. That's neat.

I mean, I'm just not gonna disagree for the sake of disagreeing. Your point makes sense.

[Cinnamon]

Vorkuta I find it weird that you're calling out a 'bad' push at this point. Most pushes here are mainly just gut and tone (your push came against a claim so there was actually something to discuss) and I don't see it as very AI.

[Cinnamon]

Claiming Miller really early is pretty standard I thought?

[Cinnamon]

I don't think that it would be unusual to see another push, especially after I got pushed hard by Vort

[Cinnamon]

I think nom is kinda townie here - their push wasn't the greatest but their reaction to Vorkuta seems genuine

[Cinnamon]

I would like just to add that for the record, I would never make this play as town that is not a miller

[Cinnamon]

Who do you think is scum, cinnabunny?

I don't have any scum reads at the moment but I think what Vorkuta is doing here is likely to come from a town agenda. I also like urap2 but I feel that way whenever I read a game with him in it.

why is vork's push on you likely to come from a town agenda?

To answer this from a long while back, I think that a push at that point could definitely come from town just trying to pressure a new player to try to get a read. There wasn't too much going on at that point in terms of gameplay and it certainly could provide useful information. The fact that they continue to talk about it is steadily becoming less and less town however.

[Cinnamon]

ITT everyone tries to appease skitter

I don't quite get the meta behind this and posts related to this, is there some past player history or interactions of skitter that I should be aware of?

[Cinnamon]

I'm sorry I've been kinda lurky the past few days, I'll post some reads tomorrow once I have the time to catch up

[Cinnamon]

Spoiler:

that the over-justification for your vote was a complete contradiction of your usual demeanor

Literally anyone can tell you that every time I vote someone or something I can TELL YOU exactly why I'm voting for that player.
Sure the reasons can be shitty (I sheep, or hopping on this wagon, or 'beetlejuicing'), but in no way is this a contradiction from my 'usual demeanor'

absolutely a scumtell as far as I am concerned

Again- do you think I'm that bad enough to "ridiculously slip up like this" on D1?
Those were my meta arguments; now for the logic bit

You haven't shown me how I'm reaching (by explaining what my flaws are in my urap2's case)
You have yet to show me how a contradiction in my words implies that I'm scum. "absolutely a scumtell" is BS
You're just interested in just trying to catch me on a slip- maybe because you're a reaction-testy player (also a playstyle I don't like),

And of course you'll catch me slipping up: after all you scum read me, so every word I write is a scum tell because of course it is

/s

Come up with real arguments

I find it pretty hypocritical you're saying this when you posted this earlier:

Spoiler:

My reason for saying that was actually more of an appeal to mechanics rather than the subconscious

o_0
"LAIMST, I have this role that I don't know what to do with, so I'm hoping EVERYBODY SEES how hard I'm trying to reach

my

town!winconf with this role!!!"

I can certainly see your point.

Boom.
In no universe does town ever agree with me here.
You are doing everything you can to appease the red giant and get me off your case at any cost.

Nuke

Mic Drop

However, I don't really find that as scummy, it just seems like you're generally stubborn player. I don't think mafia just makes such blatantly contradictory, aggressive statements that are guaranteed to draw a wagon at some point so that this makes you a townlean for now.

[Cinnamon]

Actually add BuJ to my townreads too. That was the slot who put words to what I thought urap and I were already doing in response to the cinnamon push. I also like many of the other posts.

Can you help me find town here because I think this is scum

otherwise im gonna push it

Teacher is the only player in this game that I have prior experience with, and he played exactly this way. He was super quiet for large parts of day 1 and was agreeing with loud players (Irrelephant, Flavor) and I called him out as scummy for it, as it would be really easy to play that way as scum. He was town. While I still think his behavior would be too easy to replicate as mafia I see teacher playing this game really similarly to his town game.

UNVOTE:

[Cinnamon]

VOTE: Nero Cain

Something about the way that he pushed me early in the game seemed off. It didn't really feel like he was trying to figure out my alignment. His reasoning for pushing on teacher was also pretty weird to me; I don't think that being 'lazy with your vote' is a great reason to read somebody as scummy.

[Cinnamon]

As he calls it he's a 'reaction' player. He's really quiet early and doesn't provide much original content until he gets his hooks in (which is somewhere halfway into the day) when he finds his reads based on how others are playing, then he starts really getting into the game.

(this is off of one game so idk if its completely accurate)

[Cinnamon]

Salad why the unvote?

[Cinnamon]

Something about the way that he pushed me early in the game seemed off. It didn't really feel like he was trying to figure out my alignment.

So you don't believe me when I said it was a fake push?

I don't think that being 'lazy with your vote' is a great reason to read somebody as scummy.

but he himself said it seemed towny and game solvey.

towns #1 weapon is his/her voice and vote. He wasn't using either (at the time I called him out) Why is suspecting a guy, who's not scumhunting, of being scum such an invalid push?

I can believe it was a fake push, but I don't understand the reasoning behind it. It just seemed to me like you were asking questions to look like you're asking questions.

I don't think I worded this very well at all. It's not that your push on teacher was invalid, but I think it was that you accused teacher of being lazy with his vote when you weren't doing much with your vote either - it was still on urap even though you were accusing teacher and DP.

Can't we all just get along and lynch teacher or DP?

To me, it seemed like you were being hesitant with your vote as well so it seemed weird that you would accuse teacher for that reason specifically.

[Cinnamon]

Would you agree then that you still thought urap was the scummiest player at the time? From this post it seemed like you were leaning towards these two more.

[Cinnamon]

From this post it seemed like you were leaning towards these two more.

From what post?

I...thought/think urap was scum and besides the fake push on you I was always sitting on him before the teacher wagon exploded so I'm not really understanding your point.

From this

Can't we all just get along and lynch teacher or DP?

afterwards you talk about teacher and urap a bit but from this post I got that your focus had shifted

[Cinnamon]

like

u r a person 2 (2): Nero Cain, Saladman27

here im sitting on the largest non-vork wagon

VOTE: teacher

I'm starting to think this is worth exploring actually.

and this is where the teacher wagon became a thing.

and I voted him

urap is going nowhere.

VOTE: teacher


I like that better than vork

So I "hesitated" to vote him for less than 24 hours.

Yes but urap had been going nowhere for a while and there had been some discussion on teacher leading up to this. Maybe this is my inexperience with forum mafia showing but you posted a number of times in those 24 hours. I would think that if you really were so in favor of a teacher wagon you would do something to that effect earlier.

[Cinnamon]

Because past this point you talk about both teacher and urap roughly equally. From this post I assumed that you wanted teacher and DP over urap, even though you scumread all 3. I'm not sure why you think it's so weird for me to get that impression from your posts.

[Cinnamon]

I never said it proves anything. I'm explaining where my logic is coming from and the way that you're shutting it down is really frustrating.

[Cinnamon]

I just finished my game with teacher a couple days ago, where he was acting exactly like he is now. I thought he was mafia for most of that game, and it turns out he was town. That's why I voted him in the first place and it's also the reason why I unvoted him once I found out that's just how he plays as town.

[Cinnamon]

On the other hand, I see you as a player that doesn't normally include hesitating like that in their playstyle since you are aggressive with your pushes so it seemed weird to me that you were calling him out for it when you did it yourself, even if the way you did it was not as egregious as the way teacher did.

[Cinnamon]

I still can't shake this gut read that Nero is scummy here, I doubt that'll change soon.

[Cinnamon]

teacher why flubber? I thought their recent posts weren't the bests so I'd be willing to explore that wagon but I want to hear your reasoning

[Cinnamon]

My case on you was mostly a gut read with reasoning to add pressure to see if our interation changed my read on you. It didn't, and I'm still leaning scum on you like before.

[Cinnamon]

interaction*

[Cinnamon]

teacher why flubber? I thought their recent posts weren't the bests so I'd be willing to explore that wagon but I want to hear your reasoning

It’s basically that. Not much in the recent posts felt searching/hunting, and there was no presence before that. The spare of posts looked like activity for activity’s sake. The best were 847 and 850 and they weren’t that great. It’s. Place where someone I think is town and I could overlap, and that’s what I think is impt right now.

Anything else in particular you want to explore?

I prefer VOTE: Flubber but I also wouldn't mind seeing ED. Mainly, I haven't seen enough of them to get a good read. I don't see their recent posts as super scummy but I would like to see that readslist

[Cinnamon]

I agree that nom x3 has been pretty townie, I don't like that lynch either

[Cinnamon]

I think it's one of the more townie things they've said but I wouldn't consider it outside of the ability of scum to say it.

[Cinnamon]

It's very possible scum sees a logical conclusion stemming from that that's different from what nom x3 was thinking

[Cinnamon]

What town are you finding in vork? I thought that earlier you were not townreading him

[Cinnamon]

What town are you finding in vork? I thought that earlier you were not townreading him

outside of the post that was actually flubbers

[Cinnamon]

VOTE: EvilD
Not my strongest scumread, but I prefer this over Vork.

[Cinnamon]

Cinnamon what do you think of 848? How easy is it for scum to fake a post like that?

I think it's one of the more townie things they've said but I wouldn't consider it outside of the ability of scum to say it.

Why is it a town-indicative post?

I see this as something that is more likely to come from town because its a townie thought process that would be very difficult to come organically from scum. With that being said, it is still quite possible for scum to fake it so I didn't put much stock in that post.

[Cinnamon]

Atm I'd be okay with either Evil or Flubber out of that lynchpool

[Cinnamon]

I can see Vork's point about the "Don't know how to play this" comment at the beginning, but the rest of the points I don't really get. Adding the WIFOM of it being a modifier can only help us. If somebody scum reads them, the fact that they've softed PR should mean nothing until they make an actual claim.

In post 116, Flubbernugget wrote:
Im drunk

Oh boy, I've been here before.

So he supports vorks push but with a hedge, and then argues against anyone taking the claim into account while making their reads. It's fence-sitting to the extreme

hold on i just got an email and I gotta see if I'm gonna be able to buy dave chappelle tickets or not hold this thought

I have no clue what you're trying to say here but i dont like the rolefish from ed

I'm not sure how to explain it but this statement seems kinda townie to me

[Cinnamon]

I think it's less likely that a mafia would make a statement like that when they're being pressured

[Cinnamon]

UNVOTE:

[Cinnamon]

I don't have a ton of time to talk right now but we have a couple days, we may as well take them to sort this claim

[Cinnamon]

Nom I do think there is AtE and I do not think they are town. I do think that trying to rush a lynch here is a bad idea however.

[Cinnamon]

They're a claimed cop, and I really don't see them as my strongest scumread. Isn't there a lot of benefit in at least letting them live a day?

[Cinnamon]

You were appealing to emotion, and I really don't believe the 'ED was obvtown' statement

[Cinnamon]

In the event that Shoshin is town here, I agree that Nom's pushing really doesn't make sense

[Cinnamon]

While that's a valid point, I didn't get the same read from ED and I'd rather believe my own reads than yours here as I'm not familiar with you as a player. I just think you were wrong on ED.

[Cinnamon]

But it really isn't. Yes, they're scummy but I don't see this as anywhere near confirmed scum and I don't think that lynching a cop claim day 1 is a good play here

[Cinnamon]

In case it wasn't clear, I also do not think Shoshin is the correct lynch today.

I never said ED was scummy, but that they were merely not townie. I really can't see anybody who has only posted 7 times as very townie.

[Cinnamon]

Shoshin can you explain to me your read on Nero?

[Cinnamon]

I never said ED was scummy, but that they were merely not townie. I really can't see anybody who has only posted 7 times as very townie.

To be clear, your inability to read a small quantity of posts doesn't mean others can't.

To me, what this says is that they did not engage in any real time interactions and could have plenty of time to formulate their thoughts as mafia. I think any semi-competent mafia player could produce 7 posts that look somewhat townie in a week. I think you underestimate the scum range of somebody lurking on that scale.

[Cinnamon]

I don't like Shoshin's 'you're bad' argument but that's mostly personal I don't think that's more likely to come from scum than town. I think we need to start looking at other things right now.
For example, VOTE: Flubber I wouldn't mind this

[Cinnamon]

I think you definitely could be bussed here since there has been traction on your wagon but your first two points are valid enough for me to not want to lynch you today.

[Cinnamon]

I think in the event that Shoshin is town here there's definitely scum on the wagon

[Cinnamon]

I think in the event that Shoshin is town here there's definitely scum on the wagon

This is what I've been saying... can you help me sort it out?

I actually don't townread a single person on the wagon. As you can tell by my vote, I saw Flubber's play earlier in the game as scummy. While the aforementioned 851 did resolve in 863 I think their interactions in these posts weren't great. I also think Salad's play here is weird, not necessarily scummy but at most mislead town. I explained a scum read on Nero earlier in the game. Urap I'm pretty null on, I just haven't gotten a good read on them yet. I had a town read earlier on nom but their confidence here has me questioning it. However, they are the least scummy person on the wagon for me.

[Cinnamon]

I think in the event that Shoshin is town here there's definitely scum on the wagon

statistically that's pretty likely of any wagon with 4 people on it, scum or town

While I get that, I think that the 4 people who were on the wagon are all really town if Shoshin flips scum here. Nom x3 is locktown as well. I just wanted to say that my read on them is really dependent on the alignment of Shoshin

[Cinnamon]

I think in the event that Shoshin is town here there's definitely scum on the wagon

This is what I've been saying... can you help me sort it out?

I actually don't townread a single person on the wagon. As you can tell by my vote, I saw Flubber's play earlier in the game as scummy. While the aforementioned 851 did resolve in 863 I think their interactions in these posts weren't great. I also think Salad's play here is weird, not necessarily scummy but at most mislead town. I explained a scum read on Nero earlier in the game. Urap I'm pretty null on, I just haven't gotten a good read on them yet. I had a town read earlier on nom but their confidence here has me questioning it. However, they are the least scummy person on the wagon for me.

I agree about Flubb's interactions around 851, as I mentioned. His vote on me was awful, as well. He's likely scum from my perspective.

Salad's playing bad. The question is whether it's an act or genuine town badness. I'm unsure on this. I don't scumread but I can't townread either.

Nero's playing scummy, agreed.

U2's a better player than what he's showing here. He'd also want me gone as scum, so the fact he continues voting me after the cop claim has me concerned. Scum love to strongarm lynches on cops.

I think Nom's probably town. I hate to say it but unfortunately it is what it is.

We seem to mostly be on the same page. I'm happy to build a wagon on one of Flubb/Nero with you, if that sounds right to you?

I'm on Flubber right now, I'd be good with that.

[Cinnamon]

I'm okay with Flub Nero and U2 rn. I'm pretty busy today so I won't be able to get back to this until later but I'd be okay with any of those lunches

[Cinnamon]

i could switch to urap rn i think too
not really vibing flubber rn

also i think i townread everyone off of the major wagons

I was here as well. I still am okay with any of U2/Nero/Flubb but I would prefer the first two
VOTE: Nero

[Cinnamon]

is there a reason we can't wagon urap or ... ?

If we're talking strictly about resistance to wagons, I think urap has gotten way more of that than Nero

[Cinnamon]

Oh boy

[Cinnamon]

VOTE: urap
I'm pretty cool with this lynch today I think we should lynch outside of the cop claims

[Cinnamon]

Flubber are you claiming a full cop or is your cop claim gated as well?

[Cinnamon]

Flubber are you claiming a full cop or is your cop claim gated as well?

Wasn't a real claim.

Well now I look dumb

[Cinnamon]

idk it's annoying one time but when it happens 3 times in a single day AND on top of that you are the one getting insulted for "shit pushes" it's kind of an unreal feeling lmao

Little did you know this whole game is just one big prank on you

[Cinnamon]

It probably won't make you feel better but I think you're probably town here. These emotions would be pretty hard to fake as scum I think.

[Cinnamon]

urap could you give us a readslist?

[Cinnamon]

I think I'm feeling this more now
VOTE: Flubber
Not feeling urap but he's right that flubber is scummier than him here

L-1

[Cinnamon]

I'm really torn but I do prefer the people off the Flubber wagon compared to the ones on.

VOTE: Nero let's see where this goes?

[Cinnamon]

why do I feel like you're flailing in a not particularly townie way nero?

prob b/c you are scum and you need new ways to call me scum.

Isn't this like the definition of OMGUS?

[Cinnamon]

nomnomnom who else would you consider for a lynch if you had the choice?

[Cinnamon]

Nero a big part of why I'm on you is because I scumread Flubber's wagon more than yours. Who on Flubber's wagon do you see as townie besides yourself?

[Cinnamon]

Contrary to what skitter is saying about Nero, I think urap would make more sense based on the wagons yesterday. Nero had quite a bit of pressure on him and votes were there as well but urap never got above 4 votes throughout the whole day.

[Cinnamon]

Vork, I'm looking but I don't see you give reasons for your push on nom^3. Why that push?

[Cinnamon]

I'm beginning to think the wagons yesterday were TvT; my reasons for scumreading Nero were pretty meh as well. I'd be looking at Dunn, salad, or urap for a lynch today.

[Cinnamon]

I'm beginning to think the wagons yesterday were TvT; my reasons for scumreading Nero were pretty meh as well. I'd be looking at Dunn, salad, or urap for a lynch today.

Oh yeah, and this post is pretty bad. It also seems like you're just sheeping other recent opinions here?

Sure but my reasons for being on his wagon yesterday were pretty poor; it was pretty much that I liked his wagon more than flubber's and I had a gut scumread on him.

[Cinnamon]

happy bday dunn!

[Cinnamon]

I'm beginning to think the wagons yesterday were TvT; my reasons for scumreading Nero were pretty meh as well. I'd be looking at Dunn, salad, or urap for a lynch today.

Are you still browsing or what, by the way? There are votes on Urap, salad, and me

For a few reasons I've been generally less active the past couple days, I haven't caught up until now.

VOTE: salad

I'm not sold on the idea that's going around of bad reads from urap --> scum urap. I think it's very possible he just doesn't have the time to reevaluate the game right now. On the other hand, I find salad's play here very easy to do as scum and his actions haven't been very helpful for town and are likely to continue this way. A major difference for me is that I think urap will be easier to figure out later in the game than saladman.

[Cinnamon]

I'm not sold on the idea that's going around of bad reads from urap --> scum urap. I think it's very possible he just doesn't have the time to reevaluate the game right now.

I don't think that's the extend of why people are voting him, though? And you scumread him before this got brought up... what did you scumread him for earlier, in 2805?

Right but that is why I think salad and urap are similarly scummy in my eyes and since they're similarly scummy I'd rather a salad lynch. I'll look back tomorrow to remember why I was scumreading urap day 1.