The Mystery Box Of Silver 5: Clash of Cash death grips

[schadd_]

Vote count 1.1

mastina (2):

Voted, NotMySpamAccount

Old Dogs (2):

Vorkuta, ZZZX

Vorkuta (1):

ElevenThirty

ElevenThirty (1):

Old Dogs

YAYVIDEOGAMES (1):

the worst

the worst (1):

Toogeloo

not voting (7):

YAYVIDEOGAMES, Fuscosco, The Three Musketeers, mastina, Chickadee, KidAmn, Wh4t

with 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. day 1 ends july 1st at 01:35 central US time; in (expired on 2019-07-01 01:35:00)

mod notes

• chickadead is replaced by the worst. the integrity of this game isn't compromised, in case anyone was worried
  
• skitter30 (11:30) is vla. on what days you ask? fridays and saturdays of course
  
• no edit mark

[/area]

[ElevenThirty]

oh cool zzzx is prob town

VOTE: old dogs

also irrel is not going to be able to play for the next few days so it's just going to be for the forseeable future;
i'll start signing when he gets back

[Voted]

Ahhhh, a forming wagoon!
VOTE: old dogs

[schadd_]

replacing tw

[YAYVIDEOGAMES]

VOTE: Chickadead slot

[ZZZX]

VOTE: Chickadead slot

Why?

[Old Dogs]

single, hardclaimed survivor is not multiball

You've uuhh read the description of this game yes?

honey........ lmao

multitasking is not multiball fsjadlkfjad;slfja;k

Oh i think ur pretty townie, i want to know why *old dogs* thinks ur townie - i'm using this to get inside their head, and read *them*, not u

i think the way ramcius decided to argue with me, pressure me, and ultimately come to an understanding is a very clear town mindset

I remeber reading somewhere about the game having multiple third parties.. And the fact that with the 3 we can't vote being clearly mentioned as indefinite it does tell us some questions of what that means for other parties. And this it's easier to think about town hunting and the people who clearly don't care about the town win.

there's nothing that says that there's more than one 3rd party, just that there's a "scary 3rd party element" (which is also why i think the survivor is linked to the main gimmick of the setup). there's also... no such thing as a town-aligned survivor? all survivors are just third parties. and i HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that that slot is a serial killer, claiming anything that eventually spells your doom as serial killer (vig and survivor mainly) are horrible claims that basically ensure autoloss unless you get to a situation where town is forced to pick between giving the sk the win or the mafia the win - which isnt going to happen this setup after 2 mislynches

gonna save my skitter scumread for a new post

pedit:

[ZZZX]

there's nothing that says that there's more than one 3rd party, just that there's a "scary 3rd party element" (which is also why i think the survivor is linked to the main gimmick of the setup). there's also... no such thing as a town-aligned survivor? all survivors are just third parties. and i HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that that slot is a serial killer, claiming anything that eventually spells your doom as serial killer (vig and survivor mainly) are horrible claims that basically ensure autoloss unless you get to a situation where town is forced to pick between giving the sk the win or the mafia the win - which isnt going to happen this setup after 2 mislynches

why is claiming survivors as an SK worse than a survivor claiming survivor?

[ZZZX]

Anyway I will hit the bed, I will look at answers tomorrow, But Old if you are town mind explaining your thoughts to me about thsi entire thing in more details? its early and I don't mind giving you the benefit of the doubt if you can show me your thought process.

[Old Dogs]

because a survivor does not necessarily know if there's going to be multiple kills during the night, but if there's suddenly 3 nks, guess who everyone's first suspect for serial killer is going to be? good thing we're policy lynching them too huh

pedit: i feel like i'm beating a dead horse but okay

[Old Dogs]

i mean, getting lynched during the day is just as much against ur wincon as getting nk'd at night
and my point is that your'e significantly more concerned about the latter than the former, and the way you're planning on playing reflects that - and it goes directly against *my* wincon, which makes me significantly less likely to do anything to try to prevent your lynch.

like yeah, you need to play to your own wincon, but you need to keep in mind the wincon of the many other people in this game too - not just the scum who can nk you at ngiht, but also the town who can lynch you during the day. i can't do anything about the former, but i'm prob going to have a decent amount of sway over the latter, and i have basically no reason to help u if you're not going to help *me*.

basically i'm telling you that you need to not piss off town as a survivor too, and you kinda did that

who am i talking to btw?

anyway this is a yikes post

asking someone who's not town to "be cooperative" by giving reads is kind of a bizarre concept, since it's part of a survivor's wincon to try to stay alive, how are you supposed to know that the reads they give are genuine in the first place? they might lie about reads so that scum don't nightkill them if they think theyre on the right path, and it's not like the only way to contribute to a game of mafia is by pushing reads.

i also feel like the way skitter is just... thinking? this whole game is giving me hives, am i really the only one who's getting gut pangs from her. i suspected her from her vortuka post on but this was kind of the tipping point since earlier i didnt want to show my hand just yet

also to people saying "oh i agree with x about the survivor thing so theyre town," just going to point out as chickadead did that scum and town have every reason to approach this in the same way. there isnt really anything townie about wanting to lynch a survivor claim, the discussion is purely mechanical. not saying your townread is invalid or whatever but like just keep that in mind because the "x is thinking the same way as me" towntell is supposed to be about uninformedness, not mechanics.

[Old Dogs]

i feel like i'm beating a dead horse but okay

anyway

i agree with RAS that the optimal play for survivor is to immediately hardclaim and vote with town (ideally against scum). as a survivor you basically have to pick between dying at town's hands via lynch or scum via nightkill by how pro-town or pro-scum you play. the thing is, if you choose to play pro-town and don't successfully vote out enough scum, town is forced to policy lynch you so that you dont vote a townslot in lylo and give scum a free win. so the best way to play the lose-lose situation here is to avoid the nightkill because that can at least be ensured. if a survivor tries to lead town or do anything that might make them a threat to scum, they instantly become a contender for the nightkill since not nightkilling them when they would be the nightkill of choice in a townslot is basically playing with fire.

ms meta is usually to kill third parties unless it's utterly stupid to in which case everyone will want to leash a serial killer or spare the survivor that claims in lylo i find - so i'd never actually claim survivor D1 as groupscum in some sort of gambit and i dont want my presence known as a serial killer and tipping off that i'm a 3rd party will make people suspicious when the games starts to point towards a serial killer existing. im assuming in good faith that because we're confirmed to have a 3p that this isn't a fakeclaim from town either.

so, sure, we can just speed things up and lynch the survivor claim today since we probably will down the line because it's unlikely we'll play a perfect game. there's a few catches with that though:

• we're ultimately taking away the usefulness of D1 - this is the only day where every single slot is alive, so if we spend it knowing that we're just going to lynch the survivor then all of the interactions we'd be getting here are useless
  
• we're ensuring we never hit mafia today when town has the best majority possible over scum on D1 - even if it's unlikely to happen if town players refuse to not vote for the 3p and we dont lynch scum it's really detrimental because scum can just never bus knowing full well that no one will want to lynch them.
  
• the 3p very likely is important to the main gimmick of the setup, which i assume we universally have little knowledge on. i'd rather see what that connection is before lynching them in case it's useful for town

with that slot very likely not having the ability to kill, we should take the fact that they cleared themselves as not group scum as their contribution to town for the day and look elsewhere. even if we hit town it's more productive for the gamestate because it at least can lead to finding scum in the next days.

[YAYVIDEOGAMES]

Why?

Spite. (Not at the duck)

[Old Dogs]

i mean that's fair then i guess

[Fuscosco]

Im frankly tempted to place out.

[Fuscosco]

Fuckin cheap scumbag.

[Chickadee]

Please don't joke like that. Either replace out quietly with the mod, or play the game.

[schadd_]

Im frankly tempted to place out.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79321

as per a recent rule, discussing one's potential replacement in thread is illegal. please PM me if you decide to replace

[Old Dogs]

i highly doubt this game was compromised

[schadd_]

it was not

[ElevenThirty]

i mean, getting lynched during the day is just as much against ur wincon as getting nk'd at night
and my point is that your'e significantly more concerned about the latter than the former, and the way you're planning on playing reflects that - and it goes directly against *my* wincon, which makes me significantly less likely to do anything to try to prevent your lynch.

like yeah, you need to play to your own wincon, but you need to keep in mind the wincon of the many other people in this game too - not just the scum who can nk you at ngiht, but also the town who can lynch you during the day. i can't do anything about the former, but i'm prob going to have a decent amount of sway over the latter, and i have basically no reason to help u if you're not going to help *me*.

basically i'm telling you that you need to not piss off town as a survivor too, and you kinda did that

who am i talking to btw?

anyway this is a yikes post

asking someone who's not town to "be cooperative" by giving reads is kind of a bizarre concept, since it's part of a survivor's wincon to try to stay alive, how are you supposed to know that the reads they give are genuine in the first place? they might lie about reads so that scum don't nightkill them if they think theyre on the right path, and it's not like the only way to contribute to a game of mafia is by pushing reads.

i also feel like the way skitter is just... thinking? this whole game is giving me hives, am i really the only one who's getting gut pangs from her. i suspected her from her vortuka post on but this was kind of the tipping point since earlier i didnt want to show my hand just yet

also to people saying "oh i agree with x about the survivor thing so theyre town," just going to point out as chickadead did that scum and town have every reason to approach this in the same way. there isnt really anything townie about wanting to lynch a survivor claim, the discussion is purely mechanical. not saying your townread is invalid or whatever but like just keep that in mind because the "x is thinking the same way as me" towntell is supposed to be about uninformedness, not mechanics.

a) does it concern u at all that you're like ... the only person who wasn't concerned by the survivor claim ? it concerns me. like i like three musketeers; they're pov matched mine like a lot and the way they explained it was townie af. same with zzzx. yours i feel like i can't track at all

multiple people had really similar reactions, and i found that reassuring. you didn't.
i'm also not entirely following why you're jumping on *me* for feeling this way when .... like half the game expressed similar thoughts. and yes, i do believe this is a valid tell.

b) no, it's not a bizarre concept to want 3ps to cooperate. they don't want to die at night, sure - they also need to not be lynched during the day, which means they have to give me a reason to not want to lynch them. deliberately not sharing scumreads is the anti-thesis of that. they're going for their wincon, sure, but at the expense of *mine* - why should i help them if they won't help me?

sure, they might lie, but like, if they're not going to share scumreads .... what are they going to do for the next several dayphases? just kinda be around? why should i put any effort into keeping that alive exactly ...? like how else do you think they're going to be contributing exactly? and if they're blatantly pushing their wincon over mine, how can i trust them to help further the things that *i* want?

c) saying that the way i'm thinking gives you hives doesn't mean anything to me, sorry. i don't know how to respond to that

d) and again, i didn't advocate for lynching the 3p claim. i said that i would have zero qualms about compromisng there, which is not at all the same thing

e) also ur last paragraph is really weird (talking to me from the wrong pov almost? not sure) but i'm getting kinda tired and i'm not sure why rn so i'm just kinda posting this here as a reminder to try to see if i can articulate this tom

[Old Dogs]

a) does it concern u at all that you're like ... the only person who wasn't concerned by the survivor claim ? it concerns me. like i like three musketeers; they're pov matched mine like a lot and the way they explained it was townie af. same with zzzx. yours i feel like i can't track at all

a) are we pretending vorkuta doesnt exist or

also why would that ever concern me? sometimes the majority is wrong about things

and it's in the way you're pushing it - i really dont know how to explain it beyond gut. but the things you're reacting to + when feel extremely wrong

b) the reason theyre giving you to not lynch them is that theyre not groupscum - thats a good reason for D1, but yeah if we mislynch a lot that changes. i think obfuscating our wincondition with ambiguous reads is even more detrimental to town wincon

c) i dont expect you to respond to a gutread and nor would anyone else, sorry

d) i know, it's just a dumb thing to talk about in general because that means we're compromising with group scum

e) im talking to the entire playerlist because it's a recurring sentiment across everyone who's posted, not just you

[Vorkuta]

honey........ lmao

multitasking is not multiball fsjadlkfjad;slfja;k

Sweetie- you've read this introduction bit right? Particularlystuff like
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=79867
"a scary 3rd party element!!!"
"there will be between 0 and 1 redirection abilities. it is not really role madness. no psychologist"

Obviously there's going to be quite a bit more than our survivor, and I'm assuming that it'd be more productive to approach this game like a multi-ball game rather than a traditional single ball game.

[Vorkuta]

a) does it concern u at all that you're like ... the only person who wasn't concerned by the survivor claim ? it concerns me. like i like three musketeers; they're pov matched mine like a lot and the way they explained it was townie af. same with zzzx. yours i feel like i can't track at all

a) are we pretending vorkuta doesnt exist or

*waves*

Yeah I'm not at all concerned by the survivor claim and will be opposing all wagons on them provided they don't stonewall the game by refusing to hammer or stuff like that

[Old Dogs]

Obviously there's going to be quite a bit more than our survivor, and I'm assuming that it'd be more productive to approach this game like a multi-ball game rather than a traditional single ball game.

i think multiball is universally hated and most people would want to know what theyre getting into before /inning if it is multiball

i wont stop you from gamesolving your way though i only mentioned the townhunting thing to tease you lol

how do u feel about 1130