Micro 878: Chain of Command [Game Over]

[Liz Jack and Kenneth]

I think it was his refusal to even consider voting you combined with him scum reading me )':

He did vote me and and why does him sr you make him scummy?

[Saudade]

dont put words in my mouth

[Saudade]

II said I dont tr him not scummereader him

[Persivul]

Mod I called down I'll replace back in k tx

[Persivul]

Calmed

[Persivul]

With two protectives we should also be thinking mechanically. Cap should put doc on herself and no on me tonight.

[Persivul]

Jk on me

[Persivul]

Not used to phone posting

[Saudade]

hahahaha

[Saudade]

this game has so much meme potential

[Saudade]

can mafia claim so we could all part as friends

[Persivul]

Btw I'm commander but not a pr

[Voted]

Prodge, and I won't be here even tommorow~

[ChibiBear]

This was possibly the worst modding decision I've ever seen. You and Nancy completely fucked up this game.

There is only one instance in which it's acceptable for someone who replaced out to come back into a game: the slot's been on the replacement queue for more than two days with no takers.

mod, please replace me.

I know that's not the proper way to replace out, but we know how much you care about the replacement rules...

Mod I called down I'll replace back in k tx

If my modding is so awful then I don't see why you even still want to be here. If not for the fact that you also went out of your way to call 'bullshit' on my decisions in the previous game, I'd consider being a bit more generous, but as it stands I have no desire to allow you to continue in this game when you insist on publically behaving in such a purposefully inflammatory manner outside of game context.

If any of the rest of you wish to discuss this replacement situation, I will be more than happy to do so after the game has ended, as previously indicated.

I agree that this situation was not optimally handled on my end, but I stand by my decisions and will discuss this after the game has ended.

Searching for replacement for Persivul.

[Saudade]

This is by far the most dramatic game I have played

[Saudade]

Take it easy, this is a game and whats being said is said by people you should care very little about or what they have to say

[Saudade]

Well with Perci gone and voted vacationating who am I left to play with

[Saudade]

2 scum and Datisi(?)

[volxen]

You cannot expect to shift blame of his claim onto himself.

Of course I can. I specified in bold that I would take a hammer without intent as a scum claim, yet Aubrey panicked and claimed anyway.

Yes, site meta is shifting away from waiting for intent before a hammer, but that needs to change. That's part of why towns are losing.

You put him on L-1 after being wagoned for poor reasons. You never mentioned any kind of reason why.

If I say

Hey, I really only have a null read on him, I'm just doing this to see who jumps off the wagon, or who puts on intent, etc.

that blows the whole purpose.

What did you expect was gonna happen? What kind of scenario was town!you trying to force here?

Someone would get off the wagon, or someone would declare intent, at which point I would have unvoted.

Sliding through D1 with no serious wagons and making a compromise lynch at end of phase isn't good for town.

this doesn't feel like scum to me regarding a Pers and Icon team.

Can you elaborate more on this? I'm not seeing how that interaction definitively rules out the possibility of Persivul and Icon being SvS.

- Jack (Volxen)

[Liz Jack and Kenneth]

You cannot expect to shift blame of his claim onto himself.

Of course I can. I specified in bold that I would take a hammer without intent as a scum claim, yet Aubrey panicked and claimed anyway.

Yes, site meta is shifting away from waiting for intent before a hammer, but that needs to change. That's part of why towns are losing.

You put him on L-1 after being wagoned for poor reasons. You never mentioned any kind of reason why.

If I say

Hey, I really only have a null read on him, I'm just doing this to see who jumps off the wagon, or who puts on intent, etc.

that blows the whole purpose.

What did you expect was gonna happen? What kind of scenario was town!you trying to force here?

Someone would get off the wagon, or someone would declare intent, at which point I would have unvoted.

Sliding through D1 with no serious wagons and making a compromise lynch at end of phase isn't good for town.

this doesn't feel like scum to me regarding a Pers and Icon team.

Can you elaborate more on this? I'm not seeing how that interaction definitively rules out the possibility of Persivul and Icon being SvS.

- Jack (Volxen)

[Aubrey]

Spoiler: asking why I don't see Persivul & icon team

You cannot expect to shift blame of his claim onto himself.

Of course I can. I specified in bold that I would take a hammer without intent as a scum claim, yet Aubrey panicked and claimed anyway.

Yes, site meta is shifting away from waiting for intent before a hammer, but that needs to change. That's part of why towns are losing.

You put him on L-1 after being wagoned for poor reasons. You never mentioned any kind of reason why.

If I say

Hey, I really only have a null read on him, I'm just doing this to see who jumps off the wagon, or who puts on intent, etc.

that blows the whole purpose.

What did you expect was gonna happen? What kind of scenario was town!you trying to force here?

Someone would get off the wagon, or someone would declare intent, at which point I would have unvoted.

Sliding through D1 with no serious wagons and making a compromise lynch at end of phase isn't good for town.

this doesn't feel like scum to me regarding a Pers and Icon team.

Can you elaborate more on this? I'm not seeing how that interaction definitively rules out the possibility of Persivul and Icon being SvS.

- Jack (Volxen)

--

The initial interaction just didn't feel like something scum would orchestrate to create banter / distance. Icon, to me, felt like she really didn't approve of Percy blame'n me for outing myself as doctor.

and if they are both scum, there really isn't much reason for Icon to initially chide Percy for his blaming because they both know it's just part of the scum play. If it were SvS, I'd expect the chiding part to be left out and just asking him about what he hoped to gain with a FOS. This chiding is more likely to come from TvT or SvT in my opinion.

I recommend going back through that event as my quote was only a sampling of it BTW to get the full picture.

[Aubrey]

Well with Perci gone and voted vacationating who am I left to play with

2 scum and Datisi(?)

I'm hurt you forgot me.

Unless I'm one of the scum in which case.

[ChibiBear]

VOTE COUNT 2.04

Iconeum

(2): Voted, Iconeum

Liz Jack and Kenneth

(1): Persivul

Saudade

(1): Aubrey

Persivul

(1): Liz Jack and Kenneth

Not Voting

(2): Saudade, Datisi

With

7

alive, it takes

4

to lynch.

Day 2 ends in

(expired on 2019-07-13 13:00:00)

[Liz Jack and Kenneth]

I decided to replace into this slot originally because I was scumreading Liz/Jack (so I could help them out); on learning we were town I decided not to post in thread, instead just discussing the game with Volxen in the background. However, this game isn't moving forward, and this gamestate only favors scum.

Persivul is scum

, and has a likely partner in Iconeum/Saudade. Datisi/Aubrey are likely town. Let's go through why.

---

Spoiler: Meta

Persivul's Meta

: I've played against town!Persivul and alongside scum!Persivul before. His scumplay usually follows this pattern: Look like he's sorting, get townread, and then turn passive/push an agenda. As town, he continually sorts and tests various slots throughout; feel free to verify this with past games.

This game matches with his scum meta: Till around post 600, he's been appearing "sorty" and was townread. He then stops sorting people, and instead tunnels Liz. The shift in his play is apparent. The rest of his play is largely pushing for mislynches in scummy ways, as I'll explain later.

Spoiler: Scum Agenda

Scum Agenda

: We're town, and we're townreading Aubrey. The lack of NK within our slots isn't confusing - it's great scum play. Achieving a paranoia mislynch on the grounds that a PR would've eaten a NK is a convenient idea for scum, and is arguably better play if planned well. Persivul is highly competent as scum, and should know this.

Yet, he started the day voting Aubrey in 932 - we questioned it, and he shifted his vote in 960 citing it as a "reaction test". The reactions it elicited were: Voted joining the wagon, Iconeum asking the doc to claim his target (?), and us challenging that idea; and this resulted in him voting for us. Aubrey had 0 posts during that.

What did Persivul get out of the reaction test?

This was scum gauging if he could get a lynch on Aubrey; not "reaction testing". His vote on us in that context did not make much sense either, so he justified it with a weak Zeebu|Liz dichotomy and "policy". After this, he makes repeated attacks that one of us/Aubrey is "mechanically" scum while doing nothing else.

Spoiler: Explaining The Night Kill

The Night Kill

: His being a commander fits with the Blake&Weiss NK. The command structure win path wasn't open, so ensuring the other officers die isn't a a priority. He backed down when Datisi claimed Captain quickly, and asked her to use the JK on him with the doc on herself - so the night kill would go through. Blake townread him, yes; but it was not a townread that would've held. Blake has been able to catch scum!Persivul in the past before, and her read progression on him would be unpredictable from his PoV: For reference check CoC1. He got himself townread, then became passive, and Blake was quick to scumread him as D1 was ending. Killing Blake would also make a push on us

much

easier. Also, more importantly, it's suggestive that Blake scumread his partner.

You could argue that the same reasoning applies to us, but it doesn't - I don't think scum!Nancy ever gets townread by Blake and Weiss to begin with. From our PoV, even if we were scum, this was a read that was unlikely to reverse (as the basis for it was Nancy being out of her range). Killing the slot while also being scumread by most others is a terrible decision. Not killing the doctor and driving paranoia upon ourselves, is a bad decision. We would've simply killed the doctor and argued that scum's looking for a command line winpath.

Spoiler: Partner Spec And Other Reads

Persivul's Partner

: Likely Iconeum. A short list of what gives Iconeum scum/partner equity:
1. His D1 play - summarized by Blake in 875.
2. The Blake NK, who had him in her top 2 scumreads.
3. His D2 entry pushing the "one of the claims has to be scum".
4. His pushing for claims - I don't see why needing to know who Aubrey protected was so important, or what our role was, for example. Scum motivation here would be to have a better idea of how to approach the game - if he's scum he knows there's both a doctor and a jailkeep. Knowing who the captain is is important - if it's a mislynchable slot, lynch and get Persivul to take control. If it's a hard lynch, pocket them. Note that the only claim he didn't want out was Commander... and guess who the Commander is?
5. Persivul interactions: Can't find posts where he's trying to sort Persivul. Interestingly, after Blake derails the wagon on my slot D1, Persivul votes Iconeum. Blake follows, and Persivul changes his vote soon after to Zeebu on the basis of "re-reading ISOs this is worse". Persivul never bothers about Iconeum afterwards.

Aubrey, note that scum don't have daytalk. The "chiding" part of it is easily faked and also something I'd do with a scumbuddy if I was pursuing a common scum agenda to distance myself.

I can also see a universe with Persi/Saudade as the scumteam from how they approach each other. Persi keeps Saudade at null, says he's a good scum player in 627 and that he has to do a deeper meta dive; which he never follows through with. Saudade isn't contributing to this game - between his taunts to Blake and tunnel on us, he isn't saying much. Saudade does this as both alignments, so I'm not really sure. I strongly think we should lynch Persivul's slot first, and go into Icon/Saudade.

Voted's snark remarks aren't helping the game, but they're doing nothing to push an agenda either. Blake kill makes less sense when she's townreading both Persivul and Voted if Voted is his partner given both were townread. The simpler answer is that he's town.

Aubrey's town FMPOV (apart from his dayplay) because if he were scum and *not* with an officer, he'd probably pursue that winpath when he knew he was targeting Persivul - which means he'd night kill us, didn't happen. Don't see Aubrey+Persivul or Aubrey+Datisi scum teams.

- Kenneth (Auro)

[Saudade]

Well with Perci gone and voted vacationating who am I left to play with

2 scum and Datisi(?)

I'm hurt you forgot me.

Unless I'm one of the scum in which case.

Oops