Micro 880: A Normal Game - Game Over!

[OkaPoka]

CJF if you are so sure in town lich and town me for some reason

Go and scum case kop for me. Put the same effort you did into defending lich lol

[callforjudgement]

I think TemporalLich is sometimes confused about what his own reads are.

I don't think that's particularly scummy, especially for a player who isn't concentrating on the game continuously. It's easy to forget the state of a game you haven't been actively concentrating on. (In a way, I think it's more likely to happen as town than scum, especially with daytalk, because the scum PT makes a convenient notes PT to make sure you don't forget what your fabricated reads are.) I've had to ISO myself something like 3-5 times this game in order to remind myself about bits of the gamestate that I'd forgotten.

PEDIT: As a side note, it's hard to play the game when anything you say leads to what feels like 7 or 8 rebuttal posts. I don't think you're intentionally doing that to hurt town, but I think it does hurt town – it's part of the reason the Geriatric Ruleset is popular – and as a consequence, I suspect that much of the playerlist is going to skip the past several pages.

PEDIT:

I really have no idea where your getting this idea that temporal lich pushes people for content thing though. It's out of left field.

We can literally see how temporal acts in a stagnate gamestate

someone should put dunn in the tent

why r u so confident in dunn being scum?

I've got no other SR's and the game is stagnating.

He's transparent in that his scumread is his vote.

And he sticks with it, wanting to get intent to hammer which I can only presume he wants a roleclaim from dunn asap? I mean thats content in one way.
BUT

content can be better derived by pushing another wagon no? And he doesn't start another wagon, no he waits for dunn wagon to DIE before doing other stuff. Tell me how a content motivated player waits for others to break stagnation makes sense.

a) Pushing the wagon you're on for a while to see if anyone joins you makes sense, giving up on pushing it (and looking elsewhere) if nobody is following you also makes sense; b) the thing you're complaining about here is exactly what you've been doing, only you did it to a much greater extent (for long enough for a wagon to build on you, die, and rebuild again, that's the main reason most people were scumreading you). Besides, I think TemporalLich was being honest about having no scumreads other than Dunnstral as of #143; it's hard to get scumreads that early (and the posts he scumread you for came later, other than #130 which he probably hadn't read until #146).

[OkaPoka]

I agree its hard to have other scumreads, but its hard to have scumreads at all that early.

You can probably meta me and see my older games, I used to post huge mega walls but those are hard on the eyes so not anymore. Spamposting is basically my way of emphasizing myself to break it up and make my points more powerful.

I'm glad you have ditched the idea that temporal lich plays to create content though.

[callforjudgement]

CJF if you are so sure in town lich and town me for some reason

Go and scum case kop for me. Put the same effort you did into defending lich lol

My case on Kop is written out in #644. Kop's only made one post since, #660, which doesn't seem to contribute anything to the game (and looks rather like lurking whilst trying to make it look like you aren't lurking; it also doesn't actually answer the question it quotes). If he can put into the effort to write a fairly long post that doesn't go anywhere, why not put in the effort to attempt to read somewhere off the wagon? So that's more of an extension of my original read.

If Kop posts more then there will be more posts to react to and get a read from.

[OkaPoka]

What is your solve right now?

[callforjudgement]

Really I've lost track of most of the slots because you've been trying to make the game all about TemporalLich (and thus indirectly making it all about you). I'd like to evaluate more widely, but the heavy focus on one thing has effectively given town slots a reason and scum slots an excuse not to interact with anyone else, making town and scum behaviour more similar. (Dunnstral, for example, has been acting in a way I'd consider scummy in most gamestates but maybe not in this one; he's been posting only self-justification and information in the last 250 posts or so, but I can see that happening as town when the gamestate is overwhelming you.)

I'm not at the point in the game where I can attempt a full solve; there's too much missing information. (Really, it's hard to get anywhere in terms of full solves until you have a scumflip.)

For what its worth, though, I think that if you're scum, Sleepless Assassin is the most likely partner (#655 is possibly a scumslip, I vaguely remember having seen that exact slip before but can't remember where; the scumread on TemporalLich in #674 also seems a bit like an echo of you, although it's hard to be certain that that's the actual cause). Either way, he's probably unlikely to ever finish catching up at this point given the apparent work restrictions and the speed of the thread, and I haven't seen much to think he's scum other than associatives.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Can someone summarize the last 15 pages? I'll read it but I want a general idea of what I missed first

[Kop]

he fking admits the contradiction when i literally lay out the cards in front of him

he doesnt back down until he has to

again, i'm saying that i think that the way he backed down was townie

you really think that scum have any other choice but to back down there? i mean reread the interaction and look at where he chooses to backdown, its when i PEAK BABY I PEAK

he had outs earlier, takes me to explicitly lay it all out in one post for him

why didn't scum!him take the earlier outs then

Maybe he didn't either see those outs or just felt that he was committed and pulling out wasn't a option to him at that time?

i really don't care if you think it's anti-town of me

i'm not voting someone i don't think is scum rn
at best i'd compromise lynch there but i'd *vastly* prefer a different lynch and voting tl won't make that happen

like sure, if a compromise deadline lynch happens there then yeah, we might deprive ourselves of wagon analysis .... but why should i play towards that scenario rn given that i don't think deadline is for a while anyways

Skitter, I don't know why, but I've got a paranoia about you. When I replaced in and read some of the thread, I had a (not a big but) town read on you, but over the past readings since replacing in, I am getting a paranoia that this could be a play. I just feel that your speaking when spoken too, and not moving from your stance. It feels like since you've cemented yourself as the highest poster in the thread, and not many people are scum reading you, you've set your stance and not really moved from it, and not willing to take any other stance, even when people are trying to talk to you about your stances.

You've mentioned 2/3 possibilities of who could be scum, but I'm only seeing these as words since I don't see you pushing those avenues but rather sit on your vote on Oka and not move unless it's a vanity wagon, which at this stage it looks like it could be.

[Dunnstral]

voting lich : )

I didn't scumread lich and still don'tSleepless Assassin is a question mark for me, noting that they may be unlikely partners with Kop if the predeccesor was truly overwhelmed

As for Kop himself, I don't remember much about him as a player but I remember low posting being pretty typical. I think there's a fair chance he's scum just based on other slots being town.

"No info lynch" is a bad argument, next to "they're low hanging fruit so it's scummy to push them" - which I remember both were used so far.

The above is interesting, you are saying that you've read the thread multiple times? Are you moving towards a skitter vote?

The other question mark for me is Firebringer, no clue what alignment he is or how to divine said info at this time. OHe moved off Skitter after I moved on, and now Kop is posturing around Skitter

[Kop]

skitter if im doing a compromise deadline lynch im lynching you

a) that's p dumb of you given that you think tl is scum
b) in this gamestate i *highly* doubt you can make that happen
c) on the off-chance you do, i'm going to make sure that everyone understands that you're next

dunn is voting you
firebringer has voted you
sleepless has expressed dislike on your slot

i get you to l1 and there is no viable counterwagon you die,

please work with me and vote temporal lich

you've sat on me this entire day and run me up to l1 twice

you're asking me to vote someone i don't think is scum (and it's not just before deadline) so ... no

Well at this stage, it doesn't look like the Oka wagon is going to be the final wagon, there's got to be a compromise. You have 2/3 other possibilities, why not pursue them, I haven't seen your cases against them.

I mean I dislike your final point in a previous post where if Oka managed to get you flipped you'd make it clear that Oka would be next. If Oka was to vote you, you are making a trade it's either you or me, if it's me, I'm getting them to put you out next. Your attempting to make it out that if there was a wagon on you, your making it a trade and asking people to make a stance, which you know for a fact they are going to take a opposite because your town read by almost half the player list, and only 2 people have actually voted for you and 2 have expressed voting you, and 1 of those is if your a vanity wagon. If you made a trade, Oka would be first choice over you. So you can only make that point based on that.

[Kop]

VOTE: Skitter

[Kop]

Skitter as pretty much sat on Oka for nearly 700 posts, as two other possibilities of who could be scum, but I don't recall Skitter engaging with them.

[Kop]

skitter what's your solve

you + one of dunn/kop, off chance of cfj

tl, oversoul, fire, and sa are all p townie

if i'm wrong on one of the townreads it's oversoul

and he swaps votes from me to firebringer in between here so we can probs assume our positions of scumminess are swapped

eh the readslist hting is actually a legimate point

what happened to this?

i mean it's weird but i'm not sure it's scummy

Oh, she did engage a little bit with them, but that was questioning me on what I said.

And the other one was on CFJ but Skitter was being paranoid that she was being buddied up too.

I don't see anything in terms of engagement with Dunn.

Don't think that tells me those engagements were trying to sort those slots out tbh.

[Dunnstral]

but I can see that happening as town when the gamestate is overwhelming you.

The only thing that overwhelms me are the warm, fuzzy feelings I get when some of the cast here makes a post. Boy, I love that everyone is so unique. By the way, why would the gamestate be overwhelming instead of underwhelming? It feels like a lot of people have been content to vote park for days on end

[skitter30]

Skitter, I don't know why, but I've got a paranoia about you. When I replaced in and read some of the thread, I had a (not a big but) town read on you, but over the past readings since replacing in, I am getting a paranoia that this could be a play. I just feel that your speaking when spoken too, and not moving from your stance. It feels like since you've cemented yourself as the highest poster in the thread, and not many people are scum reading you, you've set your stance and not really moved from it, and not willing to take any other stance, even when people are trying to talk to you about your stances.

A) i dont think this is entirely accurate, that i'm not willing to take any other stance - i just dont see any reason to

B) if i'm scum i dont take the mislynch offered to me on a silver platter because .... ? Unless you wanf to argue i'm partners with lich this is a p dumb thing for me to do

C) i said that i'm kinda low effort rn cuz i'm burnt out

[skitter30]

You've mentioned 2/3 possibilities of who could be scum, but I'm only seeing these as words since I don't see you pushing those avenues but rather sit on your vote on Oka and not move unless it's a vanity wagon, which at this stage it looks like it could be.

It wasnt a vanity wagon till like ... just now, so its at best inaccurate to characterize my vote this way

Dunn has done nothing this game and isnt engaging, not sure what you expect me to do there

And now i'm working on you, yay

[skitter30]

Dunn, i need you to explain what you dont like about my oka push

[Dunnstral]

What mislynch on a silver platter?

[skitter30]

Well at this stage, it doesn't look like the Oka wagon is going to be the final wagon, there's got to be a compromise. You have 2/3 other possibilities, why not pursue them, I haven't seen your cases against them.

I mean I dislike your final point in a previous post where if Oka managed to get you flipped you'd make it clear that Oka would be next. If Oka was to vote you, you are making a trade it's either you or me, if it's me, I'm getting them to put you out next. Your attempting to make it out that if there was a wagon on you, your making it a trade and asking people to make a stance, which you know for a fact they are going to take a opposite because your town read by almost half the player list, and only 2 people have actually voted for you and 2 have expressed voting you, and 1 of those is if your a vanity wagon. If you made a trade, Oka would be first choice over you. So you can only make that point based on that.

A) none of this scummy
B) again, until like last night, oka was viable, so complaining that i'm sitting on a useless wagon is kinda silly given that it's a p recent development
C) i understand neither your final paragraph, nor why you're voting me

[skitter30]

What mislynch on a silver platter?

Oka just tried to get me to vote lich about four times last night

Now cab you answer my question

[skitter30]

because dunn/kop is not a compelling argument since that means they let town run me up to l1 twice and didnt hammer or even give intent when all eyes were on me and it was reasonable to for a hammer

eh i could see that narrative

still feel like scum would have figured out how to hammer you given that you've been at l-1 for like half a week if you're town here tho

hammering is hard tho

can you think of how a dunn/kop scum could get a hammer on me reasonably without drawing huge red flags?

@oka can you explain how these make sense together

In the first you're arguing against dunn/kop being scum becuase they didnt take the oppurtunity to hammer you

In the second yoh're saying that i shouldnt think it would have been easy for them to hammer you, so your wagon is not scum-indicative

[Dunnstral]

I think oka's wagon stalling at l-1 for like forever is scum indicative for him

Did not like this stuff

Oka just tried to get me to vote lich about four times last night

That's 1 guy, it takes 5 votes to lynch

[skitter30]

Now put into words why 'you dont like this stuff'

And maybe look at the most recent vc - i wpuld be the l-1 vote on him, so what are you going on about there

Got work bye

[Dunnstral]

Now put into words why 'you dont like this stuff'

It is pushing your agenda by saying things that aren't really true

Not sure why people pointed at Kop/me as if we were the only 2 who could have hammered Oka either.... What was everybody else doing?

VC think ok, I forgot Fire moved there. You were already on Oka though which had similar support. More importantly, I don't buy into the "why wouldn't I lynch him" argument to try to clear yourself

[Kop]

Skitter, I don't know why, but I've got a paranoia about you. When I replaced in and read some of the thread, I had a (not a big but) town read on you, but over the past readings since replacing in, I am getting a paranoia that this could be a play. I just feel that your speaking when spoken too, and not moving from your stance. It feels like since you've cemented yourself as the highest poster in the thread, and not many people are scum reading you, you've set your stance and not really moved from it, and not willing to take any other stance, even when people are trying to talk to you about your stances.

A) i dont think this is entirely accurate, that i'm not willing to take any other stance - i just dont see any reason to

B) if i'm scum i dont take the mislynch offered to me on a silver platter because .... ? Unless you wanf to argue i'm partners with lich this is a p dumb thing for me to do

C) i said that i'm kinda low effort rn cuz i'm burnt out

What mislynch was offered to you?