Large Normal 221 - Endgame

[Jesus Louisus]

VOTE: ofrhz

Should have stayed on this yesterday.

[Kirari Momobami]

Yeah but it's motion detector and my claim was in RVS asking scum to shoot me. I'm not even babysitter I was just hoping to die early lol.

I retracted at the start of day 2

[Jesus Louisus]

My list from scummiest to towniest.

ofrhz
Kirari Momobami
popsofctown
LuckyOtter
Vorkuta
DeasVail
Kublai Khan
Nero Cain
nomnomnom

[Kirari Momobami]

When you include pops as third from bottom, is that as "non-town"? Or you think he bussed RF as groupscum?

[Kirari Momobami]

Why is Vork more town than Otter for you Jesus?

[Jesus Louisus]

When you include pops as third from bottom, is that as "non-town"? Or you think he bussed RF as groupscum?

How many scum do you think are still alive.

[Kirari Momobami]

I guess you have read nothing I wrote on the last two pages if you're seriously asking that question?

[Kirari Momobami]

And after Hws flips red we lynch peepeekop tomorrow.

Like this doesn't very often come from someone who plans to kill pisskop that night but it is always possible that Jesus was just overruled... by Creature or Red? Ehhhhhh.... I don't think Creature overrules a scum kill. Red... maybe? But I don't love it either.

I'm really struggling to reconcile how out of sync I feel with Jesus with the fact that I don't really like him for group scum and he isn't my preferred choice for SK.

[ofrhz]

VOTE: ofrhz

Should have stayed on this yesterday.

Why did you move your vote onto Montosh yesterday?

[ofrhz]

I think I will just end up sheeping Kirari today

[Kirari Momobami]

What are your feelings among DV/LO/Vork ofrhz?

[ofrhz]

Probably prefer to lynch otter, vork, then deas

I should put more effort in this game though. Soon TM

(Over the weekend)

[Kirari Momobami]

Yeah I know Alch argued the otter/red interactions weren't s/s but I still don't think I was really convinced.

There's enough people that have 'doesn't look like s/s' interactions that somewhere in here there was some decent theater/bussing

I have liked some of Otter's content but there's some that looks pretty easily s/s and the red stuff is like, good, but I'm not sure it's outside the range of theater.

[Kirari Momobami]

I still basically think Nom is 'the SK' but I feel like people aren't super into my arguments there. Do you agree on that read or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[ofrhz]

I think she could be groupscum because I can see how her vote on rf was a bus

I uhhh didn’t get the sk argument

[ofrhz]

The argument for nom being sk *

[ofrhz]

Now, Roster immediately unvotes, as does Red after Alchemist joins. So I'm still good with Red as scum here. Roster is unclear. I'm good with Alchemist and Nero as town, and leaning town on Jesus.

I think otter gets not-groupscum points for this. I mean it's not obviously not a bus, but I don't think he really needed to keep pushing Red here when the day looked set for an Eyes vs Jesus lynch.

Probably worth thinking about whether scum!otter would kill either roster or alch there?

[Kirari Momobami]

The argument wasn't so much that nom-->RF couldn't be S/S but rather that Creature-->HWS was ????unlikely???? to be S/S, that was Alch's point anyway

you think Creature-->HWS was s/s potentially? Creature does like dem busses

[Kirari Momobami]

And if Creature--> HWS wasn't S/S then nom is more SK than groupscum (I still don't really think she's town whatever she is tbh)

[ofrhz]

Oh for some reason I thought alchemist had cleared otter, not nom, of associations

[ofrhz]

Idk how Creature busses, I’d rather just spend some time reading some past games

I feel like I have weak reasons to put both otter and vork as town but am not confident in those townreads based on their content alone to push elsewhere right now when they’re both barely posting

[Kirari Momobami]

Problem I've been having is that everyone I scumread has some reason that they don't look super S/S

I mean realististically we may very well only have one person for S/S

[Kirari Momobami]

I don’t think they’re ever s/s since I doubt scum would forget how they’re reading their partners. Beyond that it could go any other way though.

I think scum forget their reads on their partners relatively frequently though. Or at least I don't think that's strongly town indicative. I see scum sometimes give really inconsistent reads on town but I've also seem scum quickly flip their reads of scum.

Also, I don't think that Creature's HWS push makes HWS more likely town given Creature's propensity for bussing/distancing. "Distance early and distance often" is practically Creature's scum motto.

I've been thinking about your HWS associative towncase and I kinda don't think it clears the slot. And looking at wagons, certain things scum did make slightly more sense in my mind if HWS was scum.

Maybe you can expand a bit on why you think Creature's push on HWS was definitely not a bus? I saw the posts you mentioned but the underlying logic in the point you were making didn't fully click for me.

Creature was claiming a strong scumread on roster, but then right after that he questioned why HWS didn’t have votes and went hundreds of posts back to quote roster voting HWS and sheeped the vote. I don’t see him doing that unless Roster and probably HWS are both Town. It looks more like he was trying to setup a dichotomy between roster and HWS so he could push both (first HWS, then roster when HWS flipped Town). And then later Creature switched his vote from HWS to Red, which we know was a distancing vote and I doubt he traded one distancing vote for another in the manner he did.

Otter’s overall ISO is null-Town, but I do like his consistent pushing on Red.

I think this quote in particular looks really Towny given that Red was in fact scum.

Both RedFlavor and Vorkuta have been early on the Creature wagon and not on Niko, so I don't think they're scum with Creature.

If there's scum on the Creature wagon, wouldn't they be more likely to be earlier on it? Red and vork were votes 2 and 3, not putting creature in any real danger. The second wave was Kop(Niko), Nero, Roster, Jesus. I just don't see scum doing that when Creature is not even obviously the lynch.

Now, Roster immediately unvotes, as does Red after Alchemist joins. So I'm still good with Red as scum here. Roster is unclear. I'm good with Alchemist and Nero as town, and leaning town on Jesus.

Alch argued both might be town to varying degrees, mostly arguing that Creature-->nom did not look s/s and then also arguing that LO-->Red did not look S/S

[Kirari Momobami]

I think she could be groupscum because I can see how her vote on rf was a bus

I uhhh didn’t get the sk argument

can you expand on this because if nom can be groupscum in addition to SK I'd definitely want to go there today

[ofrhz]

Otter’s last scum game was from over a year ago, and it looks like he barely had time to play the slot he replaced into before he got guiltied

Deas last mafia game period was over a year ago

Based on my initial glance, these are both great meta candidates zzz