Large Normal 221 - Endgame

[Kirari Momobami]

Since there's no way to crumb this I'm just going to say I'm a multitasking one shot motion detector and babysitter. I'm using both shots tonight, don't care about the motion detect, and want to invite the scum to shoot me so they can play roulette with my babysit. Come on guys, sure I could hit scum... But you could also get two townies for the price of one. The gamble... Is yours to make

VOTE: saudade

[Kirari Momobami]

I think town!Saudade would have omgus'd my RVS and his non-reaction here makes me kinda think I landed on scum

[Kirari Momobami]

the question wasn't actually rhetorical but thinking about it I guess it doesn't matter in the long run.

He just finished a week long ban for talking about ongoing games directly related to saying "im mason" in every game. The mason thing was either meme or an FU to the mods but probably had little to nothing to do with this game.

[Kirari Momobami]

Ok bye then

[Kirari Momobami]

I think town!Saudade would have omgus'd my RVS and his non-reaction here makes me kinda think I landed on scum

Is this based on meta?

Kinda yeah. Not super deep but I'm struggling to remember a game where he ignored an rvs vote as town. He doesn't strike me as the type to just handwave rvs votes.

We'll see whether replacement redeems the slot I guess

[Kirari Momobami]

161 seemed kinda ???

think roster's town here if we're mindmelding and he's not bothered by one of the other posts

[Kirari Momobami]

I don’t know why any of you thought that ‘semi-serious’ was serious.

Nero is in town mode though

I am entirely semi-serious is such a nonesensical sentence that of course it’s not serious

I don't really understand how this reaction gif follows from the quotes

are you saying "Nero is town" or are you saying "I like nonsense"?

[Kirari Momobami]

Anyone have a read on Alch?

[Kirari Momobami]

EvilDeanius
BodhiSmith13
Kop

@mod

these people did confirm their role pms right?

Guess people aren't in prod range yet

[Kirari Momobami]

UNVOTE:

Morality is the lynch today then, I have more to do before hammer though.

No, SS is gambiting.

I’m an informed Miller who knows there isn’t any Loyal modifiers and there is a total of 4 scum.

Morality

,

Spoiler:

Mafia Informed

Abilities:
Factional Communication: Each night phase, you may talk to your group here viewtopic.php?f=90&t=78820.
Factional Kill: Each night phase, you may send a member of your group to target another player in the game, attempting to kill them.
Modifiers:Informed:You know that one of [RCEnigma,Creature,Cult of Athena] is a Cop with modifiers. You know that there is an Informed Macho Innocent Child.
These informations will be redacted upon your flip.
Win Conditions:

You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

, survives.

[Kirari Momobami]

Because its a joke

Was the miller part a joke or not? It's not actually clear whether you were doing a cute way to claim miller or if you were just shitposting

[Kirari Momobami]

Creature is Alchemist town?

[Kirari Momobami]

Anyone have a read on Alch?

Creature is Alchemist town?

Why do you keep asking other people about me?

Your affect is kinda flat and your townreads are unexplained and disconnected from specific posts. You seem kinda less jokey than the rest of the playerlist but I don't know your meta well enough to know if that means you're tonally scum. Would you say you generally play town pretty seriously?

[Kirari Momobami]

1. LuckyOtter -- seems passive?
   
2. Nero Cain -- don't agree with reads
   
3. rosterfoster -- prolly town
   
4. ofrhz -- prolly town
   
5. Alchemist21 -- affect seems flat but? IDK
   
6. Vorkuta -- no idea
   
7. EvilDeanius -- mia
   
8. pisskop -- liked in rvs, kinda tapered but still leantown
   
9. BodhiSmith13 -- mia
   
10. HeWhoSwims -- mia
    
11. Kop -- maybe town?
    
12. RedFlavor -- lot of lynchbaity posts, seems a bit passive, meh
    
13. Saudade
    Lil Uzi Vert -- didn't like saudade, luv seems more null
    
14. Kublai Khan -- prolly town
    
15. Creature -- could go either way, didn't like the one post but maybe leantown overall
    
16. Montosh -- no idea
    
17. Jesus Louisus -- no idea
    
18. Kirari Momobami -- me

Feel like I need to find town in some of the active slots, otter, vorkuta, montosh, jesus, alchemist, luv, nero. Solve seems impossible with this many missing slots but we can start townblocking. who wants to sell me town on one of those 7?

[Kirari Momobami]

I think it’s concerning you don’t have any opinion on Montosh.

Yeah I kinda liked 274 but not really enough to townlean. Maybe that should be enough?

[Kirari Momobami]

VOTE: Creature

I have some super top secret ways to catch scum creature

Nah Creature upped his scumgame.

Now you have to read the posts too

Eh I mean I was probably bothered by that

Yes let’s just say I was

This whole thing rubbed me in a pretty townie way

I think his pushes kinda make sense too, HWS and Red both seemed like reasonable candidates for scum when his votes landed on them

Not hard locktown but feel better about this slot than my big block of nulls

[Kirari Momobami]

Fair. Why do you think there's an S in roster/montosh?

[Kirari Momobami]

@Alchemist, Do you still townread Nero for his enthusiasm? Do you think his enthusiasm has persisted?

pedit: @KK, why's that?

[Kirari Momobami]

I mean, I've got a higher townread on him than I do you.

Yeah but the question was "why?" What do you see as AI from that slot? I wasn't even undercutting your read I just don't know what you're seeing

[Kirari Momobami]

montosh
roster
creature
red

I've been slightly warming on Creature maybe being town, still like roster for town, red could go either way but kinda feels just a little bit like mislynchbait. Montosh... I feel like maybe could be town? idk, not sure on Montosh, but kinda don't feel like these are the scummiest people in the room (I say this while not really knowing who scum is but more being kinda at a loss of what to do with all the MIA slots)

just not really feeling the mindmeld, don't necessarily think you're pushing a scum agenda for the way you're presenting your reads--I kinda like that you have the reads, honestly. But lack of mindmeld makes it a little hard to get enthusiastic about townblocking you. The point that you're advancing the game is plausibly town indicative even if we're kinda not on the same page read-wise. And frankly I could be wrong and you could be right on one or two of these, none of them are 'zomg locktown' for me.

[Kirari Momobami]

Same with pisskop, LuckyOtter, Nero Cain, and Alchemist21 to a lesser degree.

To me, that's the important part of a townblock. So if one of them start pushing bad logic, they stick out more as scum.

Right now, I don't think you and me are on the same page enough.

Actually I'm surprised we're on the same page at all given you've seemed to be scumreading me

Interesting townblock, can you expand on where you're mindmelding with otter?

[Kirari Momobami]

@Nero, Guess 213 was actually back on Thursday, have your major reads changed? Maybe I'm more being thrown by older stuff in your iso

[Kirari Momobami]

UNVOTE:

Are you feeling town on HWS now?

[Kirari Momobami]

Wow way to cockblock the gambit mod

[Kirari Momobami]

VOTE: Niko

@Mod V/LA Saturday and Sunday

[Kirari Momobami]

Thought Kop might be town but that's a pretty scummy entrance

[Kirari Momobami]

It's Almost50, confirmed.

[Kirari Momobami]

Why N3?

I shot in N2. Day 3 I'm auto lynched if I don't shoot anyone.

To be honest Nero might be scum but I think he is actually this silly as town as well so there's that.

I don't know if it's scummy to not get this but I feel like it was obvious Nero meant d3

[Kirari Momobami]

Maybe I'm being a bit defensive about it. I don't like feeling that I'm being misrepresented but I'm coming around to the idea that it was unintentional from Nero's part

GUHHH

town

Montosh's posts are painful to read and I disagree with 80% of them

the remaining 20% are fluff

but he can go in my town-lean and I can forget about him for D1 please and thank you

feel like this is a slightly above average level of nuance for scum although Vork's iso overall is kinda light for what I've seen glancing at his other games

[Kirari Momobami]

I guess Vork is still toward the bottom of my reads though, even with those posts

[Kirari Momobami]

If I hammered, oh well. It could be worse.

You l-3'd the fuck out of that wagon

[Kirari Momobami]

Also waiting for Kirari's result before doing anything today.

Why would you be waiting for a motion detect result?

[Kirari Momobami]

so who has the personality that they would not submit a commute for creature if he didn't put one in himself?

[Kirari Momobami]

Also waiting for Kirari's result before doing anything today.

Why would you be waiting for a motion detect result?

Because you said you would be using it today.

What's your result?

Yeah but it's motion detector and my claim was in RVS asking scum to shoot me. I'm not even babysitter I was just hoping to die early lol.

[Kirari Momobami]

VOTE: vork.

Literally just guessing who wouldn't submit a commute for creature, let me know if you disagree

[Kirari Momobami]

I think creature did not commute because creature did not submit a commute. Vis-a-vis, his partners are people who would not submit a night action for a mia-creature. I could be wrong if he didn't commute because he was doing the kill... But it is Creature we're talking about so literally not submitting the action seems more plausible to me.

Pedit: yeah alch gets it even if he disagrees kinda

[Kirari Momobami]

Creature is not known for his reliability at submitting night actions

[Kirari Momobami]

Wow, that's gotta be the only mod on site that would not allow a teammate to submit a teammate's action.

But sure I guess that theory's shot.

Vork still might be scum anyway tho, idk.

[Kirari Momobami]

VOTE: Vorkuta

VOTE: HWS

VOTE: RedFlavor

Creature pretty much always does some low-grade bussing/distancing day 1 as scum right?

These all feel pretty low-impact to me, even if the HWS vote got some traction

@nomnom what do you think of vork and red?

[Kirari Momobami]

VOTE: jesus

I am happy to indulge your kinks

Why is jesus scum now? Have you begun worshipping buddha?

[Kirari Momobami]

I will stop quotewalling if you vote creature

I wonder if he's trying to fake dumbtell

[Kirari Momobami]

Creature died last night..

shhh don't tell him

[Kirari Momobami]

Yeah I would lynch creature, seems like caught scum to me :3

[Kirari Momobami]

I am but y r u town reading me?

A) She's trying to seduce you with her townread

OR

B) She's able to read you

Which do you want to bet on?

[Kirari Momobami]

I dunno why you felt the need to jump in. Why?

Felt like provoking you mostly

I was going to say "cause she can read" but that felt condescending, but you are pretty town here and thinking you can't be read as town seems silly

[Kirari Momobami]

I think I should vote creature again.....
like....

*sighs*

that's one surefire way to vote a scum slot!

[Kirari Momobami]

Kirari I have played with you before, yeah?

What's the fun in althunting if I make it easy for you?

[Kirari Momobami]

Sure

why is jesus better than uhh...

LuckyOtter
Eyes without a face
nomnomnom
RedFlavor
Lil Uzi Vert

any of those?

[Kirari Momobami]

can you walk me through those townreads a bit?

[Kirari Momobami]

And after Hws flips red we lynch peepeekop tomorrow.

not really the words of someone who plans to kill piss that night, although maybe he was just outvoted in the scum PT?

[Kirari Momobami]

AMA

Why is religion scummier than the illuminati?

[Kirari Momobami]

@Kirari Momababi: Do you think Eyes or JL is scummier?

eh if we were into full 1v1 territory I'd probably go Eyes but I'm still kinda processing new content from certain replacements like you so I don't think my reads are too settled right now

[Kirari Momobami]

That being said I probably shouldn't post here

?

[Kirari Momobami]

12:Twilight:Alive people, including the hammered lynch target, may continue to post until the flip.

Sure but there's no reason to stop talking? Unless you're flipping scum I guess?

[Kirari Momobami]

VOTE: RedFlavor

You're a champ, solid lolcatting 10/10

[Kirari Momobami]

Town
rosterfoster / ofrhz / Nero Cain
Kublai Khan

the "not exactly null, more a kind of "think maybe either sk or town group"
Jesus Louisus -- feel like wagons at EoD yesterday point away from s/s with red
Vorkuta -- the "it's time for a scum creature" post seems weird for s/s
Alchemist21 -- affect flat because SK? otherwise doesn't feel like his groupscum tone

Groupscum contenders?
DeasVail -- between the DV/LO 1v1 I think I'd do LO first since I liked DV's reads early game, but that feeling has waned a bit. I don't like 708 as much as I did on day 1 since he paired me with creature which is the kind of "let's put my scum townread with a town in case I flip so it's not obvious" thing you see from scum a lot, also so much of the iso is irt LO I'm kinda... hmm
LuckyOtter -- passivity high, the lack of oomph in pushes makes it easy to see as busses/distancing?


The people I was isoing as part of this list but then decided to do breakfast first so will finish later:
nomnomnom
popsofctown
Montosh

[Kirari Momobami]

I don't think even a wild setup like this has two vigs that can both shoot on night 2 tho

[Kirari Momobami]

Oh so scum shoot eyes to push sk narrative?

I kinda don't buy that but maybe

[Kirari Momobami]

In normal games I think they usually do yeah. Secret traitors is more a theme game thing

[Kirari Momobami]

Jesus show us the mafia please.

rosterfoster
ofrhz
BodhiSmith13
Creature

I have a Townlean on Nero

GET. OFF. OF. ME. *pushes*

Trying too hard. This is scum. Luckily I'm already voting here.

Also all these people are town except Creature. He hasn't posted and is therefore confscum.

This post is kinda a trip on reread lol

[Kirari Momobami]

I think I might want to just call montosh town

[Kirari Momobami]

Luv explicitly defended both creature and red, is that too wolfy to be wolf?

[Kirari Momobami]

That's a lie. You unvoted Creature in this game on June 19th. You didn't vote Creature in the other game until June 20th, and you didn't see his green flip until June 21st. This is postprocessed fabrication. If anything you knew Creature was scum in this game from your role PM and you mislynched him for playing to similarly to here in your other game.

VOTE: RedFlavor

Yeah with luv's iso this is either in the "not groupscum" list but probably belongs up with kk

[Kirari Momobami]

Am alive. Sorry, I was on an unexpected trip.

Speaking of late joiners, comparing Kop to EvilDeanius, Kop at least attempted to post something relevant. EvilDeanius entered with a joke statement, which is fine, but then an hour later has nothing to contribute other than explaining his joke post. He's going on my watchlist.

I think that's a good catch and I think it really is something scum could do.

Khan is probably Town.

Agree with this, also light TR on Kirari/Otter/Vorkuta for the time being.
Not really seeing pisskop scum either

Not much yet - as I said I'm due to re-read the game - but after a bit of looking this afternoon I'd say I have a soft scumlean on Vork and Kop.

I

Wtf happened to this vork read?

[Kirari Momobami]

Yeah idk do you think hws is the type to forget his townread on vork as scum or not?

[Kirari Momobami]

Eh. VOTE: Vorkuta

Scummier.

I agree.

Why?

Also

Montosh is town

Why?

Posts like this just always feel s/s to me

I'm gonna poke here a bit

VOTE: otter

[Kirari Momobami]

y?

Looking at his argument with you in the early game reads really T/T with Creature flipped lol

It's kinda hard to imagine a scum motivation on either side there

Why do you think there's scum in nom and roster?

[Kirari Momobami]

Spoiler:

VOTE COUNT 1.5
HeWhoSwims(5)Kublai Khan,ofrhz,Vorkuta,Jesus Louisus,LuckyOtter,
Not Voting(4)

EvilDeanius

,BodhiSmith13,

Kop

,Lil Uzi Vert,

Creature

(1)

pissKop

,

EvilDeanius

(1)Montosh,

pissKop

(1)rosterfoster,
Nero Cain(1)HeWhoSwims,
rosterfoster(1)Alchemist21,
Vorkuta(1)

Creature

,
SaudadeLil Uzi Vert(1)Kirari Momobami,
Montosh(1)Nero Cain,
Jesus Louisus(1)

Red Flavor

VOTE COUNT 1.6

Creature

(7)

pissKop

,

Red Flavor

,Vorkuta,

Kop

,Nero Cain,rosterfoster,Jesus Louisus,
HeWhoSwims(3)Kublai Khan,ofrhz,LuckyOtter,
Not Voting(3)

EvilDeanius

,BodhiSmith13,Lil Uzi Vert,

EvilDeanius

(1)Montosh,
Nero Cain(1)HeWhoSwims,
rosterfoster(1)Alchemist21,
Vorkuta(1)

Creature

SaudadeLil Uzi Vert(1)Kirari Momobami,

VOTE COUNT 1.9

Kop

Niko

(5)Kirari Momobami,

Eyes without a Face

,ofrhz,Nero Cain,Kublai Khan,
Vorkuta(4)Montosh,

pissKop

,

Niko

,

Red Flavor

Creature

(3)Vorkuta,Jesus Louisus,Alchemist21,
HeWhoSwims(2)LuckyOtter,rosterfoster,
Jesus Louisus(1)Lil Uzi Vert,
Not Voting(1)DeasVail,
Nero Cain(1)HeWhoSwims,

Red Flavor

(1)

Creature

VOTE COUNT 1.FINAL

Kop

Niko

(10)Kirari Momobami,

Eyes without a Face

,ofrhz,Nero Cain,Kublai Khan,Lil Uzi Vert,Jesus Louisus,Montosh,Alchemist21,rosterfoster,

EvilDeanius

Eyes without a Face

(1)

Niko

,
rosterfoster(1)

pissKop

,

Creature

(1)Vorkuta,
HeWhoSwims(1)LuckyOtter,
Jesus Louisus(1)

Red Flavor

Nero Cain(1)HeWhoSwims,

Red Flavor

Creature

LuckyOtter(1)DeasVail,


VOTE COUNT 2.2
Jesus Louisus(4)

Red Flavor

Eyes without a Face

,ofrhz,Kublai Khan,

EvilDeanius

Eyes without a Face

(4)rosterfoster,Jesus Louisus,nomnomnom,popsofctown,
Not Voting(2)Vorkuta,Montosh,
Vorkuta(2)Kirari Momobami,DeasVail,
rosterfoster(1)Alchemist21,

Red Flavor

(1)LuckyOtter,
Montosh(1)Nero Cain,


VOTE COUNT 2.FINAL

Red Flavor

(8)LuckyOtter,Jesus Louisus,popsofctown,rosterfoster,nomnomnom,Alchemist21,Kublai Khan,Nero Cain,
Jesus Louisus(2)

Red Flavor

ofrhz,
Not Voting(2)Vorkuta,Montosh,
Vorkuta(1)Kirari Momobami,
rosterfoster(1)

Eyes without a Face

,
SaudadeLil Uzi Vertpopsofctown(1)DeasVail,

Yeah VCA doesn't strongly reinforce my reads
There's no way EoD1 was pure town on Niko, 0 flips on the entire back half of the Niko wagon is a bit concerning although obviously the scum had incentive to sit on their vanities if they thought it might go through on its own which was the case for the two flipped scum

0 flips so far on the 4 on eyes in 2.2

and it would be very surprising if otter was the only bus on RedFlavor

[Kirari Momobami]

I don't like kirari at all and I think all animae alts should be lynched and permabanned

wow

[Kirari Momobami]

I feel like scumreading someone that pushes back on a correct joke scumread on scum is more likely to be scum but that is convoluted logic and you're welcome to disagree. Still, I think ofhrz actually made a decent point here that:

I was almost gonna say "Hi Skitter" to you

Red and Montosh are probably not scum together

since she's right that's a kinda too awkward to be s/s interaction

ofrhz also got spooked by the speed of the wagon on Red in day 1, which I think is more likely to be a town reaction to the over-eagerness of the push on Red by you/fast claim, etc. Yes, scum can try to hard defend a buddy for that reason, but it happens relatively infrequently I wanna say because scum is hyperaware of how that will look

I'm kinda okay with your nom read tho tbh

[Kirari Momobami]

I feel like scumreading someone that pushes back on a correct joke scumread on scum is more likely to be scum

tongue tied myself here

ebwop: "more likely to be town"

[Kirari Momobami]

Not identical lists but close enough I'm feeling a ~ little bit of mindmeld with DV here

[Kirari Momobami]

Hmm maybe. But if he's the type that's gonna softbus one of his partners at the start of day 1 is that the same personality/disposition of someone that's going to implode if his buddies actually get lynched?

You could be right, I don't really know Montosh, I haven't meta'd him, I just read your interaction where you both got hung up on specific words and minute details and thought it read really t/t, like it's town by virtue of being picky and pedantic in a phase of the game where that level of pedantry is more likely to come from town I think. Maybe Montosh is someone who likes to pick fights as scum though. You could be right, I just don't see it right now.

[Kirari Momobami]

did I miss part of your thought experiment in 1629? I don't understand why you greened otter

[Kirari Momobami]

Hmm maybe. But if he's the type that's gonna softbus one of his partners at the start of day 1 is that the same personality/disposition of someone that's going to implode if his buddies actually get lynched?

I have no clue what this is.

You're saying he joke-argued creature was "confscum" for not posting [i.e., soft bussing] but then that he imploded recently when his scum team actually started dropping [i.e., turned into a lurksack]

[Kirari Momobami]

tbf, he was a lurksack b4 Creature even died lol. And I don't think one precludes the other. He can't softbus

AND

be a useless lurksack. WTF kinda logic is that?

I'm not really saying he can't, I just feel like people who are gonna bus early are not usually the people who are going to stop posting if their buddies get lynched? But I guess it was a pretty soft bus so *shrug*

You're right it'd be nice to get some solid analysis from him today

[Kirari Momobami]

did I miss part of your thought experiment in 1629? I don't understand why you greened otter

I don't understand how you could miss it.

Oh I see what you were saying now... ehhh I think it's pretty flimsy to green people voting a wagon on scum before there's traction on it.

Anyway what's your read of Otter outside of voting Red before pops' accusation?

[Kirari Momobami]

it's not foil proof, true but there also exists the logic that the ones that are voting scum b4 it looks like it's going to be a thing are town and thats where I'm coming from.

but that's not really how scum has been playing? this has been a pretty distance/bus happy team so far. Yeah sitting on vanity wagons on your buddies is one way to avoid being on a wagon that results in a green flip, but it's also a way to gain towncred and to make sure you're in a good position in case someone comes up with a nightresult that implicates them. If Red had copped on n2, then start of d3 is when you'd want to get on them early since that would be the time they would be more at risk of having had a guilty on them. Even if your generalized logic was sound, I'm not sure your argument really matches how the scum have been playing so far this game

[Kirari Momobami]

all enemies of the town

I mean, even the sample town card implies SK lol

[Kirari Momobami]

Also this is far from the first time that has happened to Montosh so I could see a convo in scum PT saying 'oh yeah pretend I'm skitter for the distance lol'

you know what's actually funny, is that RedFlavor has almost no games with skitter on that account

that being said I know he's played in a skitter game on his Nako alt but like, that's a really funny accusation, and actually among all three of Red's accounts that I can find, Red only has the one game with skitter where skitter was modding. So it is just a little bit weird of a comment

but seriously, in reality, is there really a world where Montosh COACHES redflavor to deliberately confuse him with skitter? like REALLY? give me a break

[Kirari Momobami]

No I voted because that wagon was becoming a thing.
That being said, I didn't read the game but I might read this tomorrow because it is possible.

But you voted him before, again quoting others, so you must have some opinion of him that you can articulate.

Reading the game would be a great idea, yes.

VOTE: redflavor

Actually idk if otter is scum

I don't see why "I'm voting you so you read the game" isn't s/s when basically it's giving otter permission to backoff for red putting in effort

[Kirari Momobami]

Al Gore actually became president of the internet after he finished inventing it

[Kirari Momobami]

I created this account for a game where Yumeko and Mary were playing so we'd have an animu meme trifecta

then I just found it kinda fun to play this character so I decided to keep going

[Kirari Momobami]

If Red and Montosh are scum together, why wouldn't Red just jump on the Niko wagon there?

why would he?

[Kirari Momobami]

No scum shooting Eyes would imply there isn’t a SK/they thought there isn’t one IMO.

#townslip time - do scum get told if there’s a traitor?

A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:
is Mafia-aligned
knows the identities of all of the Mafia team
identity is not known by the Mafia team,

although they should know a Traitor exists

cannot be recruited to join the rest of the Mafia team, and (unless Bulletproof) is killed if shot
is endgamed if all other Mafia are dead
gives a "guilty" result to Cops, an "innocent" result to Gunsmiths, and a "Traitor" result to Role Cops

Didn't we already have this conversation?

[Kirari Momobami]

If Red and Montosh are scum together, why wouldn't Red just jump on the Niko wagon there?

why would he?

Keep pressure away from Creature

After niko claimed scum I think creature was under no pressure?

[Kirari Momobami]

so maybe my theory is actually good???

If not I think it matches the general theory I have which is that scum thought it would go through anyway since the wagon built fast from the town so they did not need or want to join

[Kirari Momobami]

why would the focus shift back to creature tho? He got focus off him earlier with 3 posts and a hws vote. People were hardly locked on him

[Kirari Momobami]

I don't think every townie in a large is gonna be at the calibre of second glance analysis that ewaf and NC are gonna go to but if I get into an invitational like that I bet it'd be a blast

I feel like I don't understand what this is in response to somehow? What invitational?

[Kirari Momobami]

Spoiler:

I honestly wonder why scums/SK decided to kill eyes given the heavy push on him yesterday by the way. I find that honestly nonsensical.

I just don't see it.

Oh so scum shoot eyes to push sk narrative?

I kinda don't buy that but maybe

I'm not following that logic at all.

I honestly wonder why scums/SK decided to kill eyes given the heavy push on him yesterday by the way. I find that honestly nonsensical.

I just don't see it.

I said that I thought it was unlikely Eyes and RF would be scum together, so maybe they picked up on that or something.

Thinking I would suddenly start TR’ing eyes would be strange though, given the apparent existence of a SK.

So I’m still baffed

The Eyes Kill might have just been an “out-there” kill to confuse everyone and avoid getting stopped by a protective.

Yeah but isn't that just outright a bad kill

Like there are neutral kills and there is killing a guy some people thought were scums alongside true Jesus so you know.

VOTE: nomnom

I think nomnom's weird focus on how "bad of a kill" eyes was for anti-town makes me think nomnom is more likely to not be town; this feels more like someone pushing an agenda irt the kill rather than authentic analysis

doesn't guarantee she's group scum but if we really want to hit not-town today I think I prefer her over ofhrz, although given ofhrz's lack of activity I could easily be wrong on that slot too. ofhrz can flip scum even though I don't really see it personally. I'm sure I'll get accused of pushing a counter-wagon if ofhrz flips some not-town role later but whatever, rereading nom's iso this kinda jumped out at me as being very not-town

also thinking of that weirdly focused argument in conjunction with this

Pops is basically conf not mafia for the Red push, I think the flip implies a SK is likely? Or possible a traitor. But the 2 kills N1 make sense for SK.

Nero was also kind of opposed IIRC

The 2 kills on N1 could be explained by there being a backup that took over Nikos role.

This is a very specific tinfoil theory and reads to me like Jesus is setting himself up for a vig claim later

feel like Jesus and nom have both been setting themselves up to claim vig down the line on eyes which makes me think at least one of them is scum that wants to be able to sell a kill on a non-town faction later as a vig if they do hit the sk/groupscum [whatever one they are not]

of the two, HWS-slot looks worse to me overall particularly due to the way things played out yesterday. Jesus I think is either SK or town, but nom could be either SK or groupscum and her night kill spec looks more suspicious to me than Jesus's

mostly though I just think nom's insistence that the eyes kill doesn't come from scum is really scummy

While it's possible one of the two is trying to soft vig to attract a nightkill, I don't think town really does that given the actual vig may shoot them.

[Kirari Momobami]

The main thing is that looking at both you and Jesus today, I feel like you are both softing vig which in my mind makes it feel like you both see the unusual eyes kill to set up a vig claim

given the scum flips it's heavily implied there's an SK, but there's no evidence yet that there is a vig on top of the one already flipped

that Jesus went out of his way to find an mech explanation for the kill is... weird, but at least it makes sense, whereas your skepticism just feels more like you want the town to not think of the eyes kill as coming from scum because that confuses the town in a way that is good for you. Like, SK might have killed eyes if they thought eyes was groupscum. That's a simple explanation; likewise, groupscum could have shot eyes because they thought he was SK. I feel like it's not actually that hard to come up with relatively simple explanations for why groupscum might have killed eyes which makes your skepticism and desire to push against those explanations without really what I see as good evidence suspicious.

[Kirari Momobami]

Ftr Kirari, Jesus cannot claim vig, he hardclaimed vanilla already

Hmm, that's a pretty good point, it doesn't make me feel better about nom though

I don't see why it's so weird that *I* specifically analyze a nightkill either.

I wasn't saying it's weird to analyze a nightkill, I was saying it's weird to analyze a nightkill and insist it doesn't come from scum in a game with a flipped vig and roles that heavily imply an SK.

[Kirari Momobami]

How is it weird? The guy was a common scumread and heavily pushed before RF slipped, what's wrong with finding that weird? I don't get it.

Finding it weird is normal. Concluding that because it is weird it does not come from either groupscum or SK is suspicious, when there is evidence that makes an additional vig seem less likely than usual. I feel like you were presenting invalid analysis, possibly because you wanted to either soft being a vig to stave off investigative actions, or claim vig later if you are an SK that hits a groupscum later in the game. I think an SK would make that kill to set up a vig claim which is what it looks like you were doing.

[Kirari Momobami]

i guess its not foil proof but Nom scum reading eyes and then shooting him doesn't make the most sense to me.

I'm not sure nom made the kill, nom might just want to take credit for the kill later on as part of a vig fakeclaim. If nom is groupscum, and SK dies later in the game, then nom could claim they made the kill even if it was an SK kill.

Scum love casting confusion over night actions, and this is already a confusing night action so making it even more confusing seems scummy to me.

[Kirari Momobami]

I don't even really want to fight you on montosh, I think he flips town but I really have very little confidence in that particular read. I can see where you're coming from even if we reach different conclusions, basically.

If we don't get nom today, like, whatever there's probably multiple scum this game and maybe your push is on groupscum and I'm on the SK. I just don't think nom flips town. If I was more confident she was group scum in particular, I'd say we have to lynch her today. But I think she's most likely SK trying to set up a vig fakeclaim, second likely groupscum trying to sow confusion, third likely town that's just... making weird conclusions. Today isn't really an "SK" hunt day. But I don't want to mislynch town and I don't think we lynch town if we lynch nom, is where I'm at.

[Kirari Momobami]

but aren't you pushing nom as the sk?

I am, I basically think she's most likely SK I'm just not sure. Do you think Montosh is groupscum in particular?

[Kirari Momobami]

I do not understand your fixation with me softing vig or whatever, that's just weird rolefishing right there.

I'm simply exploring the range of your motivations in reaching an illogical conclusion. Since "eyes kill doesn't come from either groupscum or sk" is not a logical conclusion based on the evidence of the game, I am thinking through each possible permutation of what agenda you may have in presenting that conclusion to the town. I do think the eyes kill came from scum, so the question for me is why you would come to the opposite conclusion

IF SK
-Simply trying to avoid town realizing a pattern in SK kills
-Setting up a vig fakeclaim later in the game
-Trying to appear to not be the SK

IF groupscum:
-Groupscum trying to avoid an SK kill by saying clearly false statements?
-Trying to set up a vig fakeclaim if SK gets killed by a scum shot later in the game?
-Just screw with town's NKA?

IF town:
-huh? how on earth did you get to "that kill wasn't either scum faction" with a very likely SK in the game and a dead vig?

[Kirari Momobami]

I think its just a mont/kirari solve

this seems really lazy, you can't just always throw people that disagree with you into a scumteam and call it a day

[Kirari Momobami]

Fair enough

[Kirari Momobami]

is N0 cop normal

sounds like i should vote montosh then

?

[Kirari Momobami]

I honestly wonder why scums/SK decided to kill eyes given the heavy push on him yesterday by the way. I find that honestly nonsensical.

I just don't see it.

rereading context, it's pretty clear that's exactly what you were saying in this post

[Kirari Momobami]

I honestly wonder why scums/SK decided to kill eyes given the heavy push on him yesterday by the way. I find that honestly nonsensical.

I just don't see it.

i never said the kill comes from neither???

I'm starting to want this slot gone bad, this is an explicit lie

[Kirari Momobami]

@nom

stop interacting with the scum troll alt and sheep me.

You really shouldn't try to shut down discussions dude, even if I'm wrong I need to evaluate nom's reaction to my argument for me to reevaluate if I am in fact wrong.

That being said I take no offense at being called a troll alt because that is kinda why I created this account so... fair point there

[Kirari Momobami]

I am pushing you with things you did say, though, and you lying or misrepresenting things you said is important to understanding your alignment. You now want to make it seem that you don't think a vig killed eyes, even though that's pretty clearly what you were thinking in 1577. Even if I'm wrong on everything else, why did you not just say "oh I thought maybe it was vig at that time but then I changed my mind." Instead you insist you never said you were pushing the vig angle when that just seems objectively false.

It feels like you're heavily backpedaling and playing up AtE even though that's totally unnecessary; Alchemist21 was entertaining the vig angle at the same time, it's not like "there's definitely not a second vig" was an unreasonable position. Hell, maybe there even IS a second vig, but your insistence now that you don't and NEVER thought there was a second vig seems scummy AF. It feels like you're trying to reconstruct the meaning of 1577 just because I was pushing you for seeming to soft vig, and reconstructing the meaning of a post to work against a push is explicitly scummy.

[Kirari Momobami]

So please, lose your shit. That's what I'm here for anyway :3

[Kirari Momobami]

You are in fact Nero Cain, this much is indisputable

[Kirari Momobami]

kirari, why aren't you hunting groupscum?

I'm not SURE nomnom is SK, that's just my top guess. She could also be groupscum. She's just "not town" first and foremost in my mind. I was trying to prioritize group scum earlier and it was making it harder to sort effectively. I just wanna lynch scum, SK, group, don't matter so long as it ain't town.

[Kirari Momobami]

I'm sure if Montosh is town after his flip you'll accuse me of perspective slipping him town in not pushing him here.

Everything is all part of Kirari's master plan, fear not :3 :3 :3

[Kirari Momobami]

That was @ Nero

[Kirari Momobami]

yeah that's totally why I said there was likely a SK this game because of the scum flip when entering today.

Stop reaching start reading

Fair point, but then what are you even saying in 1577? I mean you repeat the point -- "I find that honestly nonsensical" -- "I just don't see it"

I honestly wonder why scums/SK decided to kill eyes given the heavy push on him yesterday by the way. I find that honestly nonsensical.

I just don't see it.

Like, if you are town, I still don't see why you wouldn't just go "oh I guess you're misunderstanding that post" -- but it seems like you wanted to prioritize discrediting me in your response vs. helping me understand your POV.

So you don't think there's a second vig, but you "don't see" the kill coming from groupscum or the SK? What are you saying then, the VT died to a PGO?

[Kirari Momobami]

the other is?

Otter is still toward the bottom of my PoE

[Kirari Momobami]

It might actually be a Kirari/Montosh team. There’s been little interaction between them and the first real instance is Kirari laughing at the early post that first got Montosh in trouble. And looking back at that whole thing with Montosh reminded me just how bad it was.

VOTE: Montosh

Sure; given a lot of my concerns with nomnom have to do with her seeming to push the vig angle, which you were also pushing at that time, do you think a second vig is likely, probable, possible, or unlikely at this point?

[Kirari Momobami]

Am I the only one who thinks there could be both an odd night vig and an even night vig?

I think given the cop flip, off-night-vig and on-night-sk makes way more sense

like sk that alternates commuter to match the meme of the game?

[Kirari Momobami]

isn't there a wagon there today? Why not join that instead of push Nom with 3 days left?

That's where I've been all day, the only other person there is DV, Otter isn't spewing anything interesting and the wagon has no traction. Also VCA made me kinda more interested in the HWS slot due to day 1 wagons

[Kirari Momobami]

I thought pushing the "I don't see it" analysis of the kill coming from both group scum and SK was a vig soft; in that regard, sure, I'm probably reaching, but Jesus's weird "what if there's a backup" comment from earlier made me start to consider who else was pushing the vig angle and why

[Kirari Momobami]

Also what did you mean by the case on montosh is scattered? The ability of montosh pushers to summarize a case on him shouldn’t be alignment indicative for montosh at all?

to be clear you still stand by the montosh read, right?

[Kirari Momobami]

There was a kill on scum N1. Whoever did that could claim vig easily without needing to soft being a vig because they have a confirmed kill on scum already.

this........... is actually a really good point

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Kirari Momobami]

Alch where are you on Otter rn?

[Kirari Momobami]

Null. I should probably look back through their posts because they’ve just been completely off my radar.

Would you?

[Kirari Momobami]

I don’t think they’re ever s/s since I doubt scum would forget how they’re reading their partners. Beyond that it could go any other way though.

I think scum forget their reads on their partners relatively frequently though. Or at least I don't think that's strongly town indicative. I see scum sometimes give really inconsistent reads on town but I've also seem scum quickly flip their reads of scum.

Also, I don't think that Creature's HWS push makes HWS more likely town given Creature's propensity for bussing/distancing. "Distance early and distance often" is practically Creature's scum motto.

I've been thinking about your HWS associative towncase and I kinda don't think it clears the slot. And looking at wagons, certain things scum did make slightly more sense in my mind if HWS was scum.

Maybe you can expand a bit on why you think Creature's push on HWS was definitely not a bus? I saw the posts you mentioned but the underlying logic in the point you were making didn't fully click for me.

[Kirari Momobami]

Huh, that reminds me that Vorkuta is in this game still alive.

@Mod

, has Vork been prodded yet?

[Kirari Momobami]

So you think DV/Otter might be T/T alch?

[Kirari Momobami]

Thinking roster was sk kill and alch was groupscum kill

With starting player base of 18 this could now be 7-2-1? In which case this is going to be a pretty tight game 0.o

We can hope it's 8-1-1 but I wouldn't play like it is personally

[Kirari Momobami]

I think Otter is pretty circumstantially cleared really. The only way it could be otherwise is if Otter was protecting scum!Jesus instead of town!Jesus which I was pretty off of but maybe has more equity after a lot more other flipped vanilla

Can you expand on this because otter still feels like one of the most likely buddies for creature to me?

[Kirari Momobami]

Thinking roster was sk kill and alch was groupscum kill

Do you have a reason to think that?

Mostly thinking alch was townier so groupscum trying to shoot town and sk trying to shoot scum

[Kirari Momobami]

Sk probably believed alch on roster and groupscum probably wanted town to deadsheep alch on roster for mislynch too.

[Kirari Momobami]

Thinking roster was sk kill and alch was groupscum kill

Do you have a reason to think that?

Mostly thinking alch was townier so groupscum trying to shoot town and sk trying to shoot scum

Heeeeeeeh Roster had low chance of being scum fmpov, I don't think I agree with this.

I agree on roster being townreadable, I just don't know for sure the sk read him as town. Sk prolly someone that listed roster as null or didn't talk about him much

[Kirari Momobami]

Yeah maybe idk just shooting from the hip here

[Kirari Momobami]

Still think there's at least one scum inside otter/dv so if there's town in otter I probably want to go dv today

[Kirari Momobami]

Dv read pops?

[Kirari Momobami]

I don't think in my entire mafia life I will ever see scum get caught due to NKA outing them for attempting to trigger a deadsheep mislynch.

:3

anyone have thought son 8-1-1 vs 7-2-1? If it's 7-2-1 I think we want to massclaim today? But if it's 8-1-1 we massclaim tomorrow? So like, setup spec is silly but we're nearing 'that part of the game' one way or the other, main question at this point is today or tomorrow

[Kirari Momobami]

This could also be 7-1-1-1 with two alternate night SKs? Don't want to feed paranoia but if there's an odd SK with even commuter and an even SK with odd commuter that would kinda explain why this game has seemed fucked and there's so many scummy people that nonetheless seem like they can't be groupscum?

[Kirari Momobami]

Ohhh good catch

[Kirari Momobami]

So this is either 8-2, 7-2-1, or 8-1-1

[Kirari Momobami]

VOTE COUNT 1.5
Nomnomnom (5) Kublai Khan, ofrhz, Vorkuta, Jesus Louisus, LuckyOtter,

Creature

(1)

pisskop

,

Eyes without a face

(1)

Montosh

,

pisskop

(1)

rosterfoster

,
Nero Cain (1) Nomnomnom,

rosterfoster

(1)

Alchemist21

,
Vorkuta (1)

Creature

,
Popsofctown (1)

Kirari Momobami

,

Montosh

(1) Nero Cain,
Jesus Louisus (1)

Red Flavor

Not Voting (4)

Eyes without a face

, DeasVail, Kop, Popsofctown,


VOTE COUNT 1.6

Creature

(7)

pisskop

,

Red Flavor

, Vorkuta, Kop, Nero Cain,

rosterfoster

, Jesus Louisus,
Nomnomnom (3) Kublai Khan, ofrhz, LuckyOtter,

Eyes without a face

(1)

Montosh

,
Nero Cain (1) Nomnomnom,

rosterfoster

(1)

Alchemist21

,
Vorkuta (1)

Creature

Popsofctown (1)

Kirari Momobami

,

Not Voting (3)

Eyes without a face

, DeasVail, Popsofctown,

VOTE COUNT 1.9

Niko

(5)

Kirari Momobami

,

Eyes without a face

, ofrhz, Nero Cain, Kublai Khan,
Vorkuta (4)

Montosh

,

pisskop

,

Niko

,

Red Flavor

Creature

(3) Vorkuta, Jesus Louisus,

Alchemist21

,
Nomnomnom (2) LuckyOtter,

rosterfoster

,
Jesus Louisus (1) Popsofctown,
Not Voting (1) DeasVail,
Nero Cain (1) Nomnomnom,

Red Flavor

(1)

Creature

VOTE COUNT 1.FINAL

Niko

(10)

Kirari Momobami

,

Eyes without a face

, ofrhz, Nero Cain, Kublai Khan, Popsofctown, Jesus Louisus,

Montosh

,

Alchemist21

,

rosterfoster

,

Eyes without a face

Eyes without a face

(1)

Niko

,

rosterfoster

(1)

pisskop

,

Creature

(1) Vorkuta,
Nomnomnom (1) LuckyOtter,
Jesus Louisus (1)

Red Flavor

Nero Cain (1) Nomnomnom,

Red Flavor

Creature

LuckyOtter (1) DeasVail,


VOTE COUNT 2.2
Jesus Louisus (4)

Red Flavor

Eyes without a face

, ofrhz, Kublai Khan,

Eyes without a face

(4)

rosterfoster

, Jesus Louisus, nomnomnom, popsofctown,
Vorkuta (2)

Kirari Momobami

, DeasVail,

rosterfoster

(1)

Alchemist21

,

Red Flavor

(1) LuckyOtter,

Montosh

(1) Nero Cain,

Not Voting (2) Vorkuta,

Montosh

,


VOTE COUNT 2.FINAL

Red Flavor

(8) LuckyOtter, Jesus Louisus, popsofctown,

rosterfoster

, nomnomnom,

Alchemist21

, Kublai Khan, Nero Cain,
Jesus Louisus (2)

Red Flavor

ofrhz,
Vorkuta (1)

Kirari Momobami

,

rosterfoster

(1)

Eyes without a face

,
Popsofctown (1) DeasVail,

Not Voting (2) Vorkuta,

Montosh

,

VOTE COUNT 3.2
ofrhz (4) nomnomnom, Jesus Louisus,

Montosh

, LuckyOtter,

Montosh

(2) Nero Cain,

rosterfoster

,
LuckyOtter (2)

Kirari Momobami

, popsofctown,
DeasVailDeasVail (2)

Alchemist21

, Vorkuta,

rosterfoster

(1) Kublai Khan,
Nomnomnomnomnomnom (1) ofrhz,

Not Voting (1) DeasVail,

VOTE COUNT 3.2
ofrhz (5) nomnomnom, Jesus Louisus,

Montosh

, LuckyOtter,

Alchemist21

,

Montosh

(3) Nero Cain,

rosterfoster

, popsofctown,
LuckyOtter (2)

Kirari Momobami

, DeasVail,
DeasVailDeasVail (1) Vorkuta,

rosterfoster

(1) Kublai Khan,
Nomnomnomnomnomnom (1) ofrhz,


VOTE COUNT 3.FINAL

Montosh

(7)

rosterfoster

, popsofctown,

Alchemist21

, Nero Cain, ofrhz, Jesus Louisus, Kublai Khan
ofrhz (3) nomnomnom,

Montosh

, LuckyOtter,
Nomnomnomnomnomnom (1)

Kirari Momobami

,
LuckyOtter (1) DeasVail,
DeasVailDeasVail (1) Vorkuta,

[Kirari Momobami]

Man still bothers me we have nothing from the 1.5 wagon lol

day 1 was so heavily town fronted and town backed I think the other vanities look bad (LO/HWS/Vork/DV), like maybe there's an SK or one scum on that wagon but I think it was almost exclusively town

And I'm still not sure who the bus is on RedFlavor if it's not Otter :/ Like people are saying Otter is town because of the RF push but there's no way that wagon is all town, that ship was sinking fast and if busses weren't already on then I guess they might have been on the backend?

[Kirari Momobami]

In 1.9 you'd almost think there'd be a scum inside Vork and Jesus based on how the scum have been playing?

[Kirari Momobami]

I'd rather settle which of LO and DV is scum personally, and starting to wonder how reliably I can say Vork's "time for a scum Creature" comment clears him from groupscum potential which was the main reason I wasn't groupscumming him before

what do you think of vork and dv?

[Kirari Momobami]

though mechanically ofr still makes more sense

?

[Kirari Momobami]

I don't really think roster and alchemist die last night if it's vig and not SK tho

[Kirari Momobami]

If SK is full, they probably hit redflavor n1. The groupscum know they've hit at least one BP by now so they probably have a decent idea who the SK

Also in normal games traitor can't be recruited, but there's a decent chance in a setup like this they'd be BP I guess? Maybe a BP traitor and a BP SK so that scum have to figure out which is which, hence the cop?

So this could actually be 7-1[groupscum]-1[nonrecruitable BP traitor]-1[SK]

I don't honestly know if town even has an even vig, I kinda don't think so? the backup vig was an interesting thought, but I feel like bulletproof vig + backup vig is just... not a likely design setup? pretty sure town vig was not actually supposed to die early

[Kirari Momobami]

BP traitor would explain no kill n2? SK hits bp traitor, groupscum hits bp SK?

Or there's some other explanation. I feel like I'm diving in to kinda wifomy setup spec just trying to get a grip on this game.

KK does your analysis above make you think we should massclaim today or tomorrow?

[Kirari Momobami]

Yeah no BP traitor is probably too much with 2 scum commuters already, that's probably a bad explanation

[Kirari Momobami]

13-{3+traitor}-1 isn't in the range of a normal? I honestly haven't played with SK that often and am not sure how hard it impacts the overall scum count

[Kirari Momobami]

Yeah but it's motion detector and my claim was in RVS asking scum to shoot me. I'm not even babysitter I was just hoping to die early lol.

I retracted at the start of day 2

[Kirari Momobami]

When you include pops as third from bottom, is that as "non-town"? Or you think he bussed RF as groupscum?

[Kirari Momobami]

Why is Vork more town than Otter for you Jesus?

[Kirari Momobami]

I guess you have read nothing I wrote on the last two pages if you're seriously asking that question?

[Kirari Momobami]

And after Hws flips red we lynch peepeekop tomorrow.

Like this doesn't very often come from someone who plans to kill pisskop that night but it is always possible that Jesus was just overruled... by Creature or Red? Ehhhhhh.... I don't think Creature overrules a scum kill. Red... maybe? But I don't love it either.

I'm really struggling to reconcile how out of sync I feel with Jesus with the fact that I don't really like him for group scum and he isn't my preferred choice for SK.

[Kirari Momobami]

What are your feelings among DV/LO/Vork ofrhz?

[Kirari Momobami]

Yeah I know Alch argued the otter/red interactions weren't s/s but I still don't think I was really convinced.

There's enough people that have 'doesn't look like s/s' interactions that somewhere in here there was some decent theater/bussing

I have liked some of Otter's content but there's some that looks pretty easily s/s and the red stuff is like, good, but I'm not sure it's outside the range of theater.

[Kirari Momobami]

I still basically think Nom is 'the SK' but I feel like people aren't super into my arguments there. Do you agree on that read or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[Kirari Momobami]

The argument wasn't so much that nom-->RF couldn't be S/S but rather that Creature-->HWS was ????unlikely???? to be S/S, that was Alch's point anyway

you think Creature-->HWS was s/s potentially? Creature does like dem busses

[Kirari Momobami]

And if Creature--> HWS wasn't S/S then nom is more SK than groupscum (I still don't really think she's town whatever she is tbh)

[Kirari Momobami]

Problem I've been having is that everyone I scumread has some reason that they don't look super S/S

I mean realististically we may very well only have one person for S/S

[Kirari Momobami]

I don’t think they’re ever s/s since I doubt scum would forget how they’re reading their partners. Beyond that it could go any other way though.

I think scum forget their reads on their partners relatively frequently though. Or at least I don't think that's strongly town indicative. I see scum sometimes give really inconsistent reads on town but I've also seem scum quickly flip their reads of scum.

Also, I don't think that Creature's HWS push makes HWS more likely town given Creature's propensity for bussing/distancing. "Distance early and distance often" is practically Creature's scum motto.

I've been thinking about your HWS associative towncase and I kinda don't think it clears the slot. And looking at wagons, certain things scum did make slightly more sense in my mind if HWS was scum.

Maybe you can expand a bit on why you think Creature's push on HWS was definitely not a bus? I saw the posts you mentioned but the underlying logic in the point you were making didn't fully click for me.

Creature was claiming a strong scumread on roster, but then right after that he questioned why HWS didn’t have votes and went hundreds of posts back to quote roster voting HWS and sheeped the vote. I don’t see him doing that unless Roster and probably HWS are both Town. It looks more like he was trying to setup a dichotomy between roster and HWS so he could push both (first HWS, then roster when HWS flipped Town). And then later Creature switched his vote from HWS to Red, which we know was a distancing vote and I doubt he traded one distancing vote for another in the manner he did.

Otter’s overall ISO is null-Town, but I do like his consistent pushing on Red.

I think this quote in particular looks really Towny given that Red was in fact scum.

Both RedFlavor and Vorkuta have been early on the Creature wagon and not on Niko, so I don't think they're scum with Creature.

If there's scum on the Creature wagon, wouldn't they be more likely to be earlier on it? Red and vork were votes 2 and 3, not putting creature in any real danger. The second wave was Kop(Niko), Nero, Roster, Jesus. I just don't see scum doing that when Creature is not even obviously the lynch.

Now, Roster immediately unvotes, as does Red after Alchemist joins. So I'm still good with Red as scum here. Roster is unclear. I'm good with Alchemist and Nero as town, and leaning town on Jesus.

Alch argued both might be town to varying degrees, mostly arguing that Creature-->nom did not look s/s and then also arguing that LO-->Red did not look S/S

[Kirari Momobami]

I think she could be groupscum because I can see how her vote on rf was a bus

I uhhh didn’t get the sk argument

can you expand on this because if nom can be groupscum in addition to SK I'd definitely want to go there today

[Kirari Momobami]

yizz but for some reason people want to lynch you, I think because they are jealous of your ice cream

[Kirari Momobami]

I think the SK probably is not going to claim Vig lolol

even with the red flip they know the writing's on the wall

why do you think no one even wants to talk about my mass claim suggestion

[Kirari Momobami]

I doubt he traded one distancing vote for another in the manner he did.

I guess with Alch's read this is the part I'm most unsure about, I think Creature very easily would trade one distancing vote for another

Even so, I think Alch's point still holds up pretty well if HWS is SK; Creature would not have known he was moving from pushing the SK to distancing with Red.

That and nom just kinda has an sk-y vibe to me

[Kirari Momobami]

I’m not really against it...?

I mean it's today or tomorrow, there's no reason to prolong it after tomorrow at the latest. Unfortunately not knowing the town's power structure I don't know if there may still be some benefit to not massclaiming today, but I feel like the scums definitely don't want to massclaim today. Kinda a question of who it makes more uncomfortable

[Kirari Momobami]

Mostly a combination of a few light pings around Creature/reads and VCA, particularly irt to EoD1 wagons

[Kirari Momobami]

Eh. VOTE: Vorkuta

Scummier.

I agree.

Why?

Also

Montosh is town

Why?

it may seem silly but this still just feels like the most s/s post in the game to date to me

"hey scum buddy, why are you townreading town?"

Eh. VOTE: Vorkuta

Scummier.

I agree.

Why?

Also

Montosh is town

Why?

21 seemed bad

And Montosh's last posts are good

"boy here's a simple explanation to your simple question, quality interaction 10/10"

this seems like the easiest thing for scum to fake to me

No I voted because that wagon was becoming a thing.
That being said, I didn't read the game but I might read this tomorrow because it is possible.

But you voted him before, again quoting others, so you must have some opinion of him that you can articulate.

Reading the game would be a great idea, yes.

VOTE: redflavor

can also easily see this as s/s. "hey scumbuddy, why aren't you reading the game? come on man focus"

If there's scum on the Creature wagon, wouldn't they be more likely to be earlier on it? Red and vork were votes 2 and 3, not putting creature in any real danger. The second wave was Kop(Niko), Nero, Roster, Jesus. I just don't see scum doing that when Creature is not even obviously the lynch.

this seems townie at a glance but he keeps red paired with vork and then makes this argument that "creature is not even obviously the lynch" after niko claimed scum

just really think otter easily flips groupscum is what it comes down to, even though the second half of his iso is... basically fine? but he's basically playing like a serial killer once red is gone if there's no other group scum so what is there even to look for?

[Kirari Momobami]

Like if I'm a total boss, Otter is last groupscum and Nom is SK

Given my luck lately, that's probably not actually the solve, but ehhh... I have no reason to doubt myself at the moment other than Alch poking me about the Red interactions

[Kirari Momobami]

I think I talked myself into it again VOTE: Otterpops

[Kirari Momobami]

You're informed? why would you not want to claim that today... Or, idk, days ago?

[Kirari Momobami]

There wasn't a pressing need. The only reason I'm bringing it up today is to kill the SK talk.

You know how informed works right? It gets redacted from your flip. so you're saying you have a mech inno you don't want to claim that we then won't have tomorrow if you die tonight?

[Kirari Momobami]

what night were you informed? N0?

[Kirari Momobami]

What sort of dumbass vig shoots roster though? Like I can't get past that being a vig shot. eyes I could see though I this ught the mech was ?

If it is traitor then that's kinda important because we need to flip our logic, the "not s/s" interactions then could be signaling to the scumteam which means the people I've been writing off as "not groupscum" would need reconsideration

Still I don't see why you would say you're informed today and not claim the info

[Kirari Momobami]

I mean I guess if it is an odd vig I shouldn't insult them too much since they would then be the same vig that got Creature? So nice job there I guess

I think actually our main principle would still apply? Traitor isn't recruitable so even though I would need to re-evaluate my "not groupscum candidates" to "traitor possible" candidates, traitor can't do the nightkill so we still want to aim for the main faction scum I think? Unless we were really sure who the traitor was. And while I would maybe lean nom over Vork, I'm not nearly so confident there that I would lynch over Otter who I still think has best chance of being main faction

So this maybe doesn't mess with today's lynch logic as much as I thought it would, although it does mean there's even less reason to SK hunt... if there isn't one LOL

I think {Vork, nom} springs to mind as a readily apparent traitor pool though; Jesus is also a bit more possible then since then his "let's lynch pisskop tomorrow" really wasn't coming from the person who killed pisskop but he also wasn't overruled in the PT.

Town: Nero, pops, KK, ofrhz

Traitor pool: {nom, Vork, Jesus}

Main faction pool: {LO, DV} with preference for LO right now.

[Kirari Momobami]

Kinda like her tone. I guess I thought the "save RedFlavor" thing was more likely to come from town than an ally although I guess? that could be traitor signaling on retrospect. Mostly though she just feels townie to me. If I'm wrong on her being town I think I'd move her into the traitor pool not the main faction pool anyway.

[Kirari Momobami]

I mean you're welcome to press for info but I ran every scenario I could think of and the only one where he's scum is if he's claiming vig himself and has to backpedal the "informed" part. Otherwise he just sets someone up to get shot by a real vig/sk, which kinda precludes an s/s gambit unless scum literally have three night 4 commuters LOL

[Kirari Momobami]

I think scum probably does have 3 night 4 commuters. They have diminishing returns cause somebody's gotta go do the kill. It's a cute design.

I wish this game had flavor

Game flavor: Los Angeles
Mafia team flavor: Suburban COMMUTERS

The suburbs want to take over the city!!!!!

kekekeke

[Kirari Momobami]

Or he could be SK and this is his way of deflecting the conversation.
This is the dumbest thing ever. Just claim your info and move on if you're going to do this.

Yes but that requires him to retract and claim being the vig himself which I don't really think he does

[Kirari Momobami]

My paranoia is justified here whether you like it or not.

Claim your info now. There is literally no reason not to claim especially if you believe the scumteam has a traitor and that it would mean a reduced mainteam to hunt for. Jesus christ.

Jesus Christ already claimed VT don't ask him to claim again

pops is on fire lol

[Kirari Momobami]

Then again why not just claim the info for christ sake...
It's like having 2 ICs today and they can lead and have a shot without any kind of paranoia.

I mean he's basically said that LO is not vig so ... if today's lynch doesn't change as a result I can kinda see his reasoning, if he dies tonight then he keeps the shot off the actual vig. It kinda makes sense, and then vig can claim tomorrow. And if scum cross-claims... great! lol

[Kirari Momobami]

Kirari is one of the channelers from the graveyard building in lavender town but she's one of the ones that has a haunter that spams dream eater

My haunter actually uses Lick

It's super effective!

[Kirari Momobami]

This post may or may not just be a rephrasing of Kirari's post I guess

But my avatar is cuter

If Boon was in the game he'd say I was warlocking you!

[Kirari Momobami]

I kinda don't think strongman with 2 scum n1-4 commuters, maf team already has a lot of power

[Kirari Momobami]

what about
3-3 multiball

This is actually role madness, there's two 3-man scum teams, a serial killer, and a 1-shot deathproof jester governor.

[Kirari Momobami]

VOTE: ofrhz
so much fucking idiocy

why do you scumread ofrhz again?

[Kirari Momobami]

VOTE: ofrhz
so much fucking idiocy

why do you scumread ofrhz again?

I'm done with the thread for a while

You act like this is an absurd question but most of your case on her is "you haven't left much impact" which is a pretty weak argument for a day 4 top scumread frankly, and ofrhz being lurky isn't scum indicative in and of itself so you would want more anyway

also it'd be nice to just to see a reads list from you

[Kirari Momobami]

There's only one otter in this game 0.o

VOTE: LuckyOtter

[Kirari Momobami]

why should I be townreading you?

why is ofrhz scum?

[Kirari Momobami]

and nom

Can you expand on your nom groupscum read?

[Kirari Momobami]

I mean you're the lowest post count person in the game other than vork, and vork's weird interactions with creature make me think more traitor than main faction. so it's weird that you're complaining about other people getting a pass when there's at most one person that's applicable for.

[Kirari Momobami]

@ Kirari, you are scumreading me for a very similar post to this, saying it looks svs to you. How is the above post different?

a) Red did not bother responding to it. If the point was to get an easy s/s interaction out of the way, it's a bit more surprising that RF wouldn't take the invitation. More likely to ignore the question if it's T/S

b) ofrhz seems town to me off tone early game, and I don't like ofrhz's defense of RedFlavor for s/s

so two decent reasons for me that make me think ofrhz is not the last group scum. Now, I don't think nom is the last groupscum, but if you want to lynch the top candidate for traitor I'd say nom is one of the only people I'd consider doing today over you, but the problem I have is that I don't have another good candidate for the last groupscum.

If you and Nero want to lead on Nom, I'd be intrigued by that.

[Kirari Momobami]

nom as town

Can you expand on nom town DV?

[Kirari Momobami]

nom makes a correct point that it wouldn't actually be useful information for the scum right now. So if nom is scum what they are doing is being obnoxious and causing people to think badly of them.... unnecessarily? What's the point?

Read nom scumgames, her entire shtick as scum is to just aggressively push obvtown and then say she doesn't understand obvious things

she's definitely not town this game, if you're hung up on "why would scum do that? what's the point?" -- the point is to get you to ask yourself that question.

the only reason she's not already lynched is because Alch made a strong case on her being the traitor and not shared-PT with Creature, but she is definitely not town

[Kirari Momobami]

man chances game ends with otter lynch aren't bad but nom is so obviously scum it's really distracting.

How vig shot roster over nom just confounds me

I might sometimes be wrong on otter but I am never wrong on nom here

Do we lynch the traitor today or do we try to hit the last groupscum at risk of being wrong?

I'm increasingly tempted to just lynch nom here though

VOTE: nom

Let's all join hands, sing kumbaya, and lynch this slot

[Kirari Momobami]

I don't disagree. You think otter ends the game? To be honest I am much less confident on otter last scum than I am on nom traitor. If you're 75% + then we can just do otter today, but if we're in the 55-60% range I think we should do nom first so it's clear how many mislynches we have to find last groupscum.

[Kirari Momobami]

Not in normals, vork, but thanks for townslipping

[Kirari Momobami]

Well it lynches a non town so that tprs have an extra night to work with a little more info and gets us back to the vig cycle again. Obviously ending the game is better if we are sure on the last group scum.

There's also the simple fact that I could be wrong on power and that nom simply is groupscum not traitor. alch made some arguments against this that were fairly decent but it's not totally certain that creature wouldn't bus like that to a same-pt buddy, just rather unlikely

[Kirari Momobami]

There's also the simple fact that I could be wrong on power and that nom simply is groupscum not traitor. alch made some arguments against this that were fairly decent but it's not totally certain that creature wouldn't bus like that to a same-pt buddy, just rather unlikely

Alch thought I was town.

that you keep saying this is so bad lol. Alch's argument was that creature/hws was not s/s because of how creature bussed. He shorthanded that to you being town but the consequence of his argument was not that you are town but that creature did not know you were scum with him. It's incredible that you went back to grab alch out of context where he asks if people read his argument about your alignment but did not actually read his argument about your alignment lol. He never said you had a town mindset or that your play came from town, he was basing his read on how creature approached your slot.

[Kirari Momobami]

But creature would not know at that point that you were the traitor

[Kirari Momobami]

lol you're complaining about Alch's argument when Alch's argument is the only reason I haven't been piledriving your lynch all day, Alch's argument was that you were not shared-PT with Creature, if it wasn't for his argument you would have been lynched days ago LOL

I love the fucking dissonance where you're now complaining about me taking Alch's not-groupscum-case on you seriously!

[Kirari Momobami]

Well, you need two out of ofrhz, Nero, Jesus, and KK to do that.

ofrhz + KK gets on Otter and we see if that's game over?

[Kirari Momobami]

VOTE: Otter

[Kirari Momobami]

Join on otter kk?

[Kirari Momobami]

Aight. So what's next?