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Not here for fun. I'm here to win. Just admit you're scum and make it easier on everyone.
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Eh, new rule says I can't ask them to quit. So it's all I can do.In post 40, Nero Cain wrote:lol, you think a gimmick alt is going to drop his gimmick?Occasionally intellectually honest
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Oh, I get it now. Because of the avatar.In post 36, Nero Cain wrote:We all know he's an imposterOccasionally intellectually honest
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Aw, there's a town attitude.In post 118, Montosh wrote:
Why? There is one.In post 117, Kublai Khan wrote:The idea that there is a "random voting stage" is mafia is the dumbest most enduring myth on this site.
At least I do it. I don't know about you.
Scum's opening votes aren't random because they already know who is friend and who is foe. So they have to fake it.
Always scumhunt from post 1 onward.Occasionally intellectually honest
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I don't find either of your reactions weird. At most, you're a little defensive.In post 125, Montosh wrote:Sure I get that. I still think it exists because town does it. Not saying you can't scumhunt in it, but I felt some of the reaction from Nero was excessive. 101 in particularOccasionally intellectually honest
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Eh.. ohrhz and rosterfoster had both already posted, but the other two hadn't.In post 136, Nero Cain wrote:
just a bunch of players that hadn't posted. TBF, OFrhz did post while I was typing but I didn't feel like changing it for him.In post 132, Kublai Khan wrote:@Nero Cain, how did you pick your "scum list" anyways?Occasionally intellectually honest
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Irony.
Are you fishing?
People that make exaggerated claims in their first post are slighly more likely to be excited scum.
In post 173, rosterfoster wrote:Eh I mean I was probably bothered by that
If I write my book about how not to play mafia, stuff like this will get it's own chapter.In post 174, rosterfoster wrote:Yes let’s just say I was
Your cageyness is obnoxious. Say what you mean.Occasionally intellectually honest
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No, I think we all got that. But placing a vote for it and calling it opportunistic was itself sketchy and opportunistic af.In post 253, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I think many of you are misunderstanding the meaning of push here. I feel like Red is obviously referring to 132 and 137.
I never voted for Nero Cain or even called him scummy. I was just asking a question because it was a weird grouping of 4 in the LIVS (I like your term).Occasionally intellectually honest
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Well, 6 votes before ofrhz blanched and bailed.In post 263, pisskop wrote:Red youve got 8 or so votes on you. its 10 to lynch.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Ugh. It's been a while since my last game. Is this the part of the game where he have a lull where nobody wants to push anyone hard enough for a claim, so we just kind fluff and meekly limp along until a deadline starts to coalesce?Occasionally intellectually honest
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It's early, but..In post 315, LuckyOtter wrote:Eh. We still have 12 days til deadline and a couple people to join the game yet.
Who else is in your top 4?
Kirari Momobami
- Silly fakeclaims as first post
- Over-meta
RedFlavour
- Jumping on self-voter bandwagon in second post
- Ignored mason claim.
- 147 - states confusion over NC's list. But doesn't vote for me until ater an exchange with pisskop where he votes RedFlavor. Feels like RedFlavor's KK vote is more distraction/deflection.
Montosh
- Ignored mason claim.
- Anti town-tells
- Anti RedFlavor-wagon for the sake of being against a wagon.
Vorkuta
- Jumping on self-voter bandwagon
- Weird Post 22.
- Weird Post 238.
Outskirts:
rosterfoster
- Just don't understand his reasoning for doing things.
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- Totally Beetlejuiced in with fluff.Occasionally intellectually honest
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If RedFlavor and Montosh knew that Saudade always said that and it means nothing, then decided to keep this information to themselves as other players blasted Saudade, then it is Alignment Indicative. It advances the scum's goal of keeping town against town.In post 322, rosterfoster wrote:
Anyone who has played with Saudade before knows not to take this seriously. So anything about this is NAI IMO.In post 49, Saudade wrote:Im masonOccasionally intellectually honest
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It refers to Post 99.In post 323, rosterfoster wrote:
The post I think you’re referring to I know is personal opinion because *reasons* so isn’t scummy in the slightestIn post 321, Kublai Khan wrote:- Anti town-tells
Is there a reason that you've appointed yourself as Montosh's lawyer and/or spokesperson?Occasionally intellectually honest
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Montosh's actual latest post:In post 325, rosterfoster wrote:
Where? I don’t see much of that at all. If you’re talking about his latest post then I see that as not liking the people on the wagon.In post 321, Kublai Khan wrote:- Anti RedFlavor-wagon for the sake of being against a wagon.
I don’t see why any of your reasons make Montosh scummy.
How do you read that as "not liking the people"? He specifically says "the way".In post 274, Montosh wrote:The way the Red wagon built up was just not right.
So I should just trust you because of your assumptions based on vague *reasons*? That's iffy.In post 329, rosterfoster wrote:I think you’re town and you’re just completely on the wrong track with Montosh, so I want to fix you <3
If you're sticking your neck out, then give me more reason to trust you.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Sure, this whole game is based on interpretation of actions. rosterfoster is telling me that he has reasons beyond what I can see. He's being vague so at this point I can only assume why.In post 328, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
It could also mean that they thought the average player wouldn’t believe anyone claiming mason the way Saudade did.In post 324, Kublai Khan wrote:
If RedFlavor and Montosh knew that Saudade always said that and it means nothing, then decided to keep this information to themselves as other players blasted Saudade, then it is Alignment Indicative. It advances the scum's goal of keeping town against town.In post 322, rosterfoster wrote:
Anyone who has played with Saudade before knows not to take this seriously. So anything about this is NAI IMO.In post 49, Saudade wrote:Im mason
There are outskirts people. That's their folly. I think that if strong town players discuss strongly now, then we can form a town block. Non-participating scum are going to be the first picked off.Lil Uzi Vert wrote:This game feels smaller than it actually is.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Man, if only there was a way to understand Montosh's thoughts on this. I mean, I could put it out there and wait to see how he reacts and explains himself. Since he's alive and totally capable of explaining his actions. That's certainly one way that makes total sense.In post 332, rosterfoster wrote:
Presumably he likes the way the Swim wagon built up because it was him and his town reads (this is basically coming from him posts)In post 330, Kublai Khan wrote:How do you read that as "not liking the people"? He specifically says "the way".
If you don’t like the way a wagon built up them it would probably be due to the people on it. I know some people don’t like it when a wagon goes too fast but that tends to be bs especially D1.
In what other way could you not like how a wagon built up?
But naw, it's obviously much better for a separate person, who conveniently thinks I'm town, to totally answer for Montosh by presuming every action Montosh does is town for vague undefined *reasons* and have him ask me really weird hypotheticals to away me.
You're really not convincing me that Montosh is town. You're only convincing me that you either have a vested interest in keeping Montosh alive or... you're really bad at using meta.?Occasionally intellectually honest
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@mod - is this an error?In post 345, Not Known 15 wrote:Occasionally intellectually honest
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He is. It's a goddamned shame that we're moving on.In post 363, pisskop wrote:Feel like Red is still scummy.
Did you get around to ISOing HeWhoSwims?In post 365, pisskop wrote:I dont really get the Swims SRs. Maybe Ill iso them after.
It's really just impressions to maybe kickstart some discussion, but I think that was only marginally successful.In post 389, LuckyOtter wrote:Kirari is the weakest read here imo. I don't know how a silly fakeclaim is AI at all, and I'm not sure what you're seeing that you're calling "over-meta"
I agree with M that ignoring the mason claim is NAI. If anything ignoring fakeclaims and getting back to business is slightly town-indicative
I'm not seeing what is particularly weird about Vorkuta's posts. I don't see Red's and Vork's joining the pisskop wagon as the same.
I agree on EvilDeanius. If we're going to be voting lurkers I'd rather go here right now over HWS
I still feel that rosterfoster is weird for the hard defending.
I'd join on the EvilDeanius wagon, but I think turning up the skillet on HeWhoSwims is best.
VOTE: HeWhoSwims
P.Edit: Oh hey, a vote count. Timely.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Yeah. C'mon, join us.
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I'd add Lil Uzi Vert to the townblock.In post 411, Kirari Momobami wrote:Feel like I need to find town in some of the active slots, otter, vorkuta, montosh, jesus, alchemist, luv, nero. Solve seems impossible with this many missing slots but we can start townblocking. who wants to sell me town on one of those 7?Occasionally intellectually honest
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I mean, I've got a higher townread on him than I do you.In post 422, Kirari Momobami wrote:pedit: @KK, why's that?Occasionally intellectually honest
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At times, he's writing things that I'm thinking. I've got a mental groove with him. Same with pisskop, LuckyOtter, Nero Cain, and Alchemist21 to a lesser degree.In post 425, Kirari Momobami wrote:
Yeah but the question was "why?" What do you see as AI from that slot? I wasn't even undercutting your read I just don't know what you're seeingIn post 423, Kublai Khan wrote:I mean, I've got a higher townread on him than I do you.
To me, that's the important part of a townblock. So if one of them start pushing bad logic, they stick out more as scum.
Right now, I don't think you and me are on the same page enough.Occasionally intellectually honest
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No specific place. He seems to be asking questions and following up. He's not jumping to conclusions, but he's probing for more information.In post 430, Kirari Momobami wrote:Interesting townblock, can you expand on where you're mindmelding with otter?
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Reading the Jesus Louisus /pisskop interaction.. Jesus Louisus is coming off as scummy in that I can't understand his reasoning from a town persepective.
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What language?In post 510, RedFlavor wrote:I mean alignment. Role is what we call to alignment in our language often.
I'm town-reading RedFlavor a lot more after that stretch.
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Vorkuta is trying really hard to push that pisskop self-vote flub as a scummy thing
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Vorkuta pushing a Creature wagon out of nowhere feels opportunistic af. I've been in two games with town!Creature and I was convinced both times that he was scum based on the content of his posts.
I've got no read on Creature currently, but I'd much rather be stringing up Jesus Louisus, Vorkuta, or HeWhoSwims.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Right. It's questions like that that I just don't get. Obviously I won't keep my opinion that you're scummy if you flip town. How in the world is that helpful to you?In post 588, Jesus Louisus wrote:
Will you keep this opinion when I flip town?In post 584, Kublai Khan wrote: -
Reading the Jesus Louisus /pisskop interaction.. Jesus Louisus is coming off as scummy in that I can't understand his reasoning from a town persepective.
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Are you going to break down this thought or are you throwing it out there for someone else to do it?In post 601, Creature wrote:I wonder what's the resistance to HWS seeing everybody softed a scumread on them but never pulled a train on him like they did to meOccasionally intellectually honest
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Well, it's Vorkuta's second attempt at a wagon on Creature without anything beyond meta. Creature is low-hanging fruit who hasn't done much and I think Vorkuta is either scum or really lazy town for going after him.In post 623, ofrhz wrote:
I think this is cherrypicking - why is Vork starting a creature wagon opportunistic but not the people who jumped on the wagon after him?In post 584, Kublai Khan wrote:Vorkuta pushing a Creature wagon out of nowhere feels opportunistic af. I've been in two games with town!Creature and I was convinced both times that he was scum based on the content of his posts.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Not as much. I think there's a malaise happening now and people are eager to kick up a big wagon to see if something happens. I do think Creature had a good idea to look into who hesitated to jump on a HeWhoSwims wagon, but jumped at a Creature wagon. I'll try to look into that at some point later today).In post 633, ofrhz wrote:
sure it's his second time calling for a creature wagon but i think you can just as easily chastise the rest of the wagon for being scum or lazyIn post 627, Kublai Khan wrote:
Well, it's Vorkuta's second attempt at a wagon on Creature without anything beyond meta. Creature is low-hanging fruit who hasn't done much and I think Vorkuta is either scum or really lazy town for going after him.In post 623, ofrhz wrote:
I think this is cherrypicking - why is Vork starting a creature wagon opportunistic but not the people who jumped on the wagon after him?In post 584, Kublai Khan wrote:Vorkuta pushing a Creature wagon out of nowhere feels opportunistic af. I've been in two games with town!Creature and I was convinced both times that he was scum based on the content of his posts.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Look at that.. You're OMGUSing two of the three people voting for you.In post 714, Niko wrote:I could go for Kublai + Eyes + LuckyOtter right now tbh
You didn't even throw a "hey, why?" my way before declaring me scummy for voting you. You're not trying to read anybody, you're just justifying positions.In post 714, Niko wrote:Kublai changes his vote on hws to me for ??? reasons, it`s almost like...i`m scum reading his buddies.
Niko is obvscum.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Okay, first, for my reference, "the anime alt" refers to Kirarki Momobami.In post 724, Niko wrote:
1. I voted eyes before he voted me, so it`s not omgus, upsy-daisy kublaiIn post 719, Kublai Khan wrote:
Look at that.. You're OMGUSing two of the three people voting for you.In post 714, Niko wrote:I could go for Kublai + Eyes + LuckyOtter right now tbh
You didn't even throw a "hey, why?" my way before declaring me scummy for voting you. You're not trying to read anybody, you're just justifying positions.In post 714, Niko wrote:Kublai changes his vote on hws to me for ??? reasons, it`s almost like...i`m scum reading his buddies.
Niko is obvscum.
2. I call scummy people scummy because that's what they are. I don't like to engage with my scum reads and the only reason i'm engaging eyes is to show to everyone how wolfy he is.
"You're not trying to read anybody"
Wtf? What should I do in your opinion? Engage my scum reads so that they make up excuses for their scummy behavior or something?
I did that entrance to purposely put myself in a easy position to scum hop in/suspect me, and the proof i'm not simply omgusing is that although I had read the anime alt vote on me as scummy at first, I reconsidered and now I'm kind of town reading it.
I did the same reconsideration about Montosh.
I'm not interested in excuses though, so that's why i'm not interested to whatever you've to say about changing your votes from guys like redflavor/hws...to me.
And it completely is OMGUS. I say "Ugh. Vote: Niko" and you assign scummyness to me and back-reason it's because "i' m scum reading his buddies". You didn't ask. You didn't check. If you were town, you'd try to see what it was about before you assigned reason, not makeup some fluff.
Refusing to engage a scum-read means that you have absolutely no doubt as to what my alignment is. The only people with no doubt in this game are scum. You... are scum.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Are you assuming nobody reads my posts. This is such fakeness.In post 725, Niko wrote:By the way notice that kublai didn't explain why he voted me actually, since he essentially says he has a problem with me calling his vote scummy before engaging him but that was AFTER he already had voted me.
I'm foreseeing some bs reason about my entrance being scummy for ??? reasons.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Who is "Achi-haul"?In post 757, pisskop wrote:Achi-haul is townOccasionally intellectually honest
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For fuck's sake..In post 818, Niko wrote:also nero, why do you think I'm bulletproof?
VOTE: Niko
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Not the same, Vorkuta. Don't equate.
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@pisskop - You seem to be dancing around trying to find a counter wagon without making a definitive read on Niko. The most you seem to have made is a wishy-washy "tone is town, but content is bad" (paraphrased). Could you give a definitive read on Niko? (preferably sober)
@DeasVail - How can someone who has been here as long as you have just through their hands in the air and say you can't read a situation and decide to vote a wagon you're going to have no company on and who is V/LA? You really seem like you're looking for a safe spot where you don't upset anyone.
@RedFlavor - Comment on Niko. Stop avoiding.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Your case on LuckyOtter is that their posts make you feel empty. It doesn't seem like you're fighting for a wagon to happen. You're just limply putting a vote where others have expressed distrust and are hoping that a spark hits kindling. Whether or not it does, you seem indifferent.In post 954, DeasVail wrote:Seriously people are saying an otter wagon won’t happen but why not? The people saying that are the ones stopping it from happening
Your posts give me the distinct impression that if I hadn't called you out, your plan was to coast on that vote then switch to whoever was getting lynched if needed to avoid a NL.
In other words, you're playing like someone trying to keep their hands clean.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Yeah, but Niko has already "haha, that's not my role" twice. If we leave it and wait to ask Niko days later "hey, what happened with your vig shot?", he's just going to be "haha, no. I was never a vig. just a clever gambit!". Again.In post 990, pisskop wrote:Its not like we will suddenly forget niko/eyes was a vig and let them into lylo.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Why the scramble?
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@DeasVail - What happened to your LuckyOtter vote and case?
Would you mind listing your history with Creature?In post 1080, Kirari Momobami wrote:Creature is not known for his reliability at submitting night actions
I'm not saying you're wrong, but you also sound like a possible annoyed teammate. (Like, couldn't a town roleblocker be possible?)
It could be role-fishing. Creature was role-fishing early on. What town reason does he have to ask?In post 1072, LuckyOtter wrote:Trying to get caught up. I'm really not liking the flashwagon on Jesus yesterday because of his "do you have a gun" comment. Like, did you all really think that was rolefishing? @LUV, roster, redflavor.
Yes, he seemed to be doing it more than others. It's my general opinion that those who vote-hop weaken the pressure their vote imparts. In this case, nobody felt threatened or pressured by a rosterfoster vote, because he'll probably move it anyways. Flippant voters tend to be flippant because they have other ways to remove playes (NK) and a wide spread of votes keeps their association tells down. It's personality dependent of course, but I've never played with rosterfoster and don't know him.In post 1072, LuckyOtter wrote:I've mostly been TRing Kublai but I don't like his asking roster why he's moving his vote around. Votehopping D1 is obviously a thing and a lot of people were doing it in this game especially. Like, did you see roster doing it more than others, or more opportunistically than others? If you followed up on this I'm not seeing it.
Also, here is where I'm sitting after a re-read.
Lil Uzi Vert is likely town.
Nero Cain is likely town.
Alchemist21 is likely town.
LuckyOtter is likely town.
Nero Cain is likely town.
ofrhz is likely town.
nomnomnom is townside.
rosterfoster is townside
Montosh is townside
Jesus Louisus is ???.
DealVail is ???
RedFlavor is scum suspect.
Vorkuta is scum suspect.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Why? I'm not after rosterfoster. He's on the townside of my reads.In post 1105, LuckyOtter wrote:What I'm getting at is that roster is feeling like lynchbait and that worries me, about your slot in particular.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Neat. You ask me why I ask questions. I respond with the reason behind asking it (generally because there could be a scummy explanation), and you start accusing me of "still implying there might be something scummy".In post 1107, LuckyOtter wrote:
You're still implying there might be something scummy about his voting pattern, though. Otherwise, why make the 'scramble' comment at all? Was his response to that sufficient for you?In post 1106, Kublai Khan wrote:
Why? I'm not after rosterfoster. He's on the townside of my reads.In post 1105, LuckyOtter wrote:What I'm getting at is that roster is feeling like lynchbait and that worries me, about your slot in particular.
Are you going to ask me if I've stopping beating my wife next?Occasionally intellectually honest
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Did you not notice I asked two other people about their position on Niko at the same time? I was convinced that Niko was scum and was worried that the wagon would stall out. If Niko flipped scum then I wanted to know how strongly you felt about your last-minute counter wagon attempt.In post 1111, DeasVail wrote:For example, here, wouldn't it have made much more sense to wait and see if I was actually going to "coast on that vote then switch to whoever was getting lynched if needed to avoid a NL", before mentioning that it's what you're assuming I'm going to do? I was unlikely to be lynched Day 1 even if that was what you wanted, so why the rush to tell everyone about how my plan was to coast on the Otter vote so soon after I first mention my interest in lynching Otter? It would be a much more compelling, and logically sound, argument to wait until the Day ends and then, if I do as you expect, tell everyone about how I did a bad thing or whatever.
Why did you react to a prompt like it was an accusation? I legit want to know more about your case because I had just finished re-reading the game and I noted that I never really got a satisfactory resolution to something I wondered about 5 RL days ago.In post 1111, DeasVail wrote:What the flying fox?
It's approx. 12 hours into the day phase at the time of your post, it doesn't take much effort to notice that I'm in Australia and realise that the Day started at 1am my time or whatever, and I made a single post questioning a post made shortly after night ended at 8:30amish my time...
So why are you asking that question? Why would anything have "happened" to my LuckyOtter vote and case?
That was a big post of over defensive horseshit. I just finished a big re-read of the game with the flips in mind. One of the last things was me noting your wishy-washy play and nothing that I don't really understand where you're coming from. And since I don't understand your motivations, you make me feel uneasy. I don't have a case on you (and I'm not trying to build one), but you're a wild card of "could go either way".In post 1111, DeasVail wrote:Instead, you seem desperate to fling dirt at me before the dirt has even materialized. It's as if you're using whatever you can to build a scumread on me, but are not actually ready to commit to it (if your ??? read on me is anything to go by). And why not? To use your line, you've been around long enough to probably know that I was considered a strong town player back when I played more regularly. Have you been hesitant to go all in on me because of that? Have you been hoping that your ethereal dirt would get others to scumread me and do the work for you?
Convince me that I'm wrong.
(And also please explain your townread on Otter. My next post will be about him)
Let me put it another way, since you asked me about my LuckyOtter townread. I see LuckyOtter making questions/inquiries/observations that serve to inform him or note something. It feels like town building a small knowledge base or which to inform themselves of future reads. He's asking "why?" questions about reasonable things to ascertain motivation. He's working to piece together the puzzle of this game and build some footing in the middle of unknown miasmas. That's solid town behavior.
On the other hand, your posts play up your uncertainties about things. They are packed with what you are unsure about or don't know know or how helpless you feel about things. You seem to hide behind the vagaries of "feelings". Now, you could be town and totally honest about your apprehensions, but you don't seem to have much drive to confirm or investigate them. To me it just seems like you are hedging and putting out weak reads where you can't really be nailed down, because there's no concrete feeling. Your latest posts are over-defensive and totally self-centered. "HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME!?" is the strongest and most genuine position you've taken all game. It's stronger than your LuckyOtter case, which is now about what LuckyOtter didn't do post-vote. Nothing about why you voted for the first time. Are you moving the goalposts?Occasionally intellectually honest
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