Micro 878: Chain of Command [Game Over]

[Datisi]

Excuse me, am I here right for janitor interview?
VOTE: Voted

[Datisi]

Weiss head is v/la for the weekend, hoping Blake can cover post-RVS.

VOTE: zeebu

-W

I'm going to treat you guys as one entity so if I accuse you of something the other have said, well, suck it up hydra

First. And also the best.

VOTE: Persivul

You know why.

- Jack

same for this hydra

Same. I'm too lazy to look at who's posting, let alone remember which head said what, so... Same goes for me.

[Datisi]

Excuse me, am I here right for enrollment into cominterm?

No janitor interview this time?

~Liz

The janitor spot is taken, unfortunately.

[Datisi]

And no, I'm not, that would be illegal. I'm just a more enthusiastic janitor.

[Datisi]

VOTE: Datisi
dance for me

No, I don't think I will.

[Datisi]

VOTE: Datisi
dance for me

No, I don't think I will.

look at you, strong and independent, did you flip green or red mate

The law requires that I answer "green".

[Datisi]

+ poisoner pun

hmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMM *thinking face emoji*

[Datisi]

I'm crossing my fingers that the action starts once the last person gets into the game

[Datisi]

Liz is probably scum.

-Blake

Yet your vote remains on zeebu?

[Datisi]

Kinda thinking I like BlakexWeisse here a tad bit. Mostly for 125.

Do you maybe know what reasons they have in mind?

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:

What is exactly the point of this post? You unvoted again in your next post anyway.

[Datisi]

Spoiler:

Setup Mechanics:

This is a 9p Open Theme setup. In this game, a "Captain" will tell the various Power Roles in the game what to do during the night. Subsequently, you have the option to "

Obey

" or "

Disobey

" orders. If you obey, you will go through with the action. If you disobey, the action will not happen. Be warned though, the Captain will be notified when an order has been disobeyed! The captain only knows what the PRs are, not who they are.

Aside from "Power Roles", every player has a "Rank"

. They are:

1 Captain

You are an officer. You know what all the Power Roles are in the game. They are [X, X, and X]. During the day, you must PM me a list of what you wish these PRs to do. The following night, they will be presented with your order. If you wish them to no-action, simply do not give an order for that particular PR. Roles will also no-action if you do not submit a list of orders. (Example: Imagine there are 3 PRs: Bodyguard, Jailkeeper, and Rolecop. You could...Order Bodyguard to protect [player]. Order Rolecop to investigate [player]. Order Jailkeeper to Jailkeep me.) If you die, one of your officers, either the Commander or Lieutenant, will take your place as Captain. Additionally, you cannot have a PR. So if you are promoted and become the Captain you will lose any PRs.

1 Commander

You are an officer. You are 1st in line to become the next Captain. If the Captain dies, you will replace him.

1 Lieutenant

You are an officer. You are 2nd in line to become the next Captain. If the Commander and Captain are dead, you will become the next Captain.

6 Ensigns

You're just an ordinary ensign. You cannot assume command. Sucks to be you lol.

Structure:

The Mafia team is composed of 2 players who are randomly assigned to any rank and role in the game (They can be officers. If either of them are officers the secondary win condition does

not

apply). They have two win conditions A) outnumber the town/endgame them or B) kill the entire officer command structure (Captain, Commander, and Lieutenant). There are

8

random possible power roles in this game. However, only

3

(randomly decided) are actually in the game. The rest are Vanilla. Also, you know there cannot be multiple instances of one role. They are:
Jailkeeper
Voyeur
Follower
Rolecop
Bodyguard
Motivator
Doctor
Poisoner

Additional Role Notes;

1. Doctor can cure poisoned targets before they die.
2. Poisoned players are aware of it and die at the end of the next night after they've been poisoned.
3. Motivator cannot grant an extra NK, and the Captain directs second use in one go e.g (motivate vi + cause his second action to target crypto)
4. Rolecop only reveals PRs/Vanilla, not rank.
5. All results are given to the players, not the Captain.
6. During the pregame random role assignment, if the Captain is given a PR, there will only be 2 PRs in the game.
7. Only the Poisoner can target himself. If the Captain orders someone besides him to self-target, it will be as if he did not send in an action for that role.
8. Follower/Voyeur clarification: Jailkeeper=Protective/Voyeur=Informative/Follower=Informative/Rolecop=Informative/Bodyguard=Protective/Motivator=Supportive/Doctor=Protective/Poisoner=Killing. Also, the Follower cannot detect the factional kill.
9. When a player has been ordered to perform an action they will receive this message: "Your captain has ordered you to Bodyguard Faraday. Will you follow orders? Will you Obey or Disobey?" (not choosing will result in a 50/50 coinflip as to whether you'll obey or disobey) And remember, the Captain (and only the captain) will know if you've disobeyed orders. He will not know YOU the player disobeyed, only the role. In this instance, he'd know the Bodyguard disobeyed.
10. Scum PRs can Action + Use the factional NK.

Sample Role PMs:

Spoiler: No guarantee that any of these roles actually exist within this game

Welcome, [Player], you are a

Vanilla Ensign

.

Abilities:

You're just an ordinary ensign. You cannot assume command.

Your weapon is your vote; you have no Night actions.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

Welcome, [Player], you are a

Jailkeeper Commander

.

You may discuss the game with your partner

here

during Pregame and Nights Phases.

Abilities:

You are an officer. You are 1st in line to become the next Captain. If the Captain dies, you will replace them.

The Captain cannot have a PR. If you are promoted and become the Captain, you will lose your PR.

When ordered by the Captain, you have the option to "

Obey

" or "

Disobey

". (Not choosing will result in a 50/50 coinflip as to whether you'll obey or disobey) If you obey, you will go through with the action. If you disobey, the action will not happen. Be warned though, the Captain will be notified when an order has been disobeyed! The captain only knows

what

the PRs are, not

who

they are.

Each night, you may be ordered to target a player to simultaneously roleblock that player, and protect that player from any number of nightkills.

Win condition:

You win when all members of the Town have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

/quote]

I’m not sure why this was posted in the original setup but not here but I strongly suggest that all of you read this.

Isn't this literally post #2?

[Datisi]

Am I supposed to be Denni?

[Datisi]

Excuse me, am I here right for enrollment into cominterm?

No janitor interview this time?

~Liz

Sameone is being toxic this game...

?

Excuse me, am I here right for janitor interview?
VOTE: Voted

+ poisoner pun

I’m still not understanding this post.

~L

I think Voted was calling me toxic because I stole his intro and then voted him as well. The post doubles as a pun, because Poisoner is one of the PR that can appear.

[Datisi]

Excuse me, am I here right for janitor interview?
VOTE: Voted

+ poisoner pun

hmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMM *thinking face emoji*

Is this still an RVS vote?

~L

Yes, yes it is. I haven't exactly decided who yet to vote (I'm trying to purposefully ignore that whole "she unvoted them voted blah blah blah" thing everyone keeps dragging on.) And since Voted isn't in danger of being quickhammered by scum, I figured no harm done if my vote stays there.

[Datisi]

I'm trying to purposefully ignore that whole "she unvoted them voted blah blah blah" thing everyone keeps dragging on.

You got nothing AI out of that?

I'm soon going to get suspicious of people who kept making a big deal out of that. The vote/unvote itself wasn't particularly AI for me.

[Datisi]

Don't worry, it will definitely be taken into consideration. But I was hoping some other things will happen before I start making definitive reads, because at this point I feel we will just be going into circles with the discussion of vote/unvote thing. Plus, some players have barely posted, and I generally like to hear from everyone first.

[Datisi]

This is my only account.

[Datisi]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but following Captain's order once =/= confitown.

[Datisi]

There aren't any roles in this setup that can conftown themselves.

If that was true, there would be no point to this entire setup.

Please enlighten me.

[Datisi]

I'm not following. How could him obeying help you narrow down who are the PR? He would be the one getting the results of the investigation, not the Captain.

[Datisi]

Why would the results be posted in the thread? And isn't there a rule that, if the Captain orders any non-poisoner PR to self-target, it will be as if no action was sent in, therefore the Captain wouldn't receive neither "they obeyed" nor "disobeyed"? Correct me if I'm reading that wrong.

[Datisi]

C'mon LJ, where did you go? We were having such a nice conversation

[Datisi]

5. All results are given to the players, not the Captain.

Okay thanks, I don’t know how I didn’t see that. So the players would know the results of our NA, unless we either disobeyed or were required to self-target.

Don't you mean, you yourself would know the results of your NA?

[Datisi]

Doesn't necessarily have to be a fake claim. They can be both a PR, an officer and scum

[Datisi]

5. All results are given to the players, not the Captain.

Okay thanks, I don’t know how I didn’t see that. So the players would know the results of our NA, unless we either disobeyed or were required to self-target.

Don't you mean, you yourself would know the results of your NA?

I and ever other player other than the one we were required to target, obviously.

Are you trying to find out exactly what our role is because I don’t understand what other reason you’d be asking this?

I'm genuinely confused as to why you'd write that "players" would know the results of your NA. Afaik, those are not publically said?

[Datisi]

5. All results are given to the players, not the Captain.

Okay thanks, I don’t know how I didn’t see that. So the players would know the results of our NA, unless we either disobeyed or were required to self-target.

Don't you mean, you yourself would know the results of your NA?

5. All results are given to the players, not the Captain.

@LJ
When you say, "results are given to players", do you mean:
a) Rolecop does an investigation. Only the rolecop gets the results.
b) Rolecop does an investigation.

Every player

gets the results.
Because it seems to me we're not talking about the same thing.

[Datisi]

Persi so far is my strongest tr.
Both hydras are tl for me, though I do need BW to explain their sudden shift on LJ.
Aubrey, one thing that strikes me as odd is that you told LJ in #189 to keep calm with the game, yet you lose your patience as soon as you're at L-1.
And yes, Ico's sudden shift is sticking out to me. "Scum would be calmer if they had a Doc claim ready" is not exactly convincing, due to no guarantee that a PR is town. VOTE: Iconeum

[Datisi]

I'm saying that since anyone can be a PR, the good Doc claim might not have necessarily saved him had the wagon been serious.

[Datisi]

There's also 0 reason for you guys to keep voting on the doc claim. The captain will get to sort that slot.

The problem I see with this is that, for a scum!Doc, it's easy to simply obey and then kill someone who they're not protecting.

[Datisi]

Both hydras are tl for me, though I do need BW to explain their sudden shift on LJ.

[Datisi]

L&J had incorrect informatin about the setup. Wouldn't it had been more scummy if I had just let it slide?

[Datisi]

Sure, let's ask him.
VOTE: zeebu

L-1

Yo zeebu, why didn't you vote your scumread?

[Datisi]

Doctor. Y’all decide if I’m town or scum doctor. Stupid wagon.

I think that this game needs more power roles to claim.

While we're waiting.
@Voted, was this post sarcastic? Just to clarify

[Datisi]

I want to talk mechanics just for 1 sec here:

In the OP it says that the captain has to direct the PR's during the night. In the link to the wiki however, it says the captain has to send it in during the DAY.
I just don't want to end the day without giving the captain a chance to send in actions if he hasn't do so already

Captain, you have 31h, 41min and 59.26535 seconds to do orders.

Was this supposed to be intent?

[Datisi]

I feel very dumb now. ._.

[Datisi]

Voted, if you see both Sau and zeebu as town, who do you see as scum?

[Datisi]

1. Liz and Jack (Anonymous Hydra)
2. Voted
3. Iconeum
4. Persivul
5. zeebu
6. Blake x Weiss (Blake Belladonna + Weiss Schnee)
7. Datisi
8. Saudade
9. Aubrey

what was the point in posting this? You didn't list your reads in this order, and you said your reads aren't in any order

[Datisi]

persivul - reading his iso he seemed pretty town early on... the hiccup is sheeping icon with a vote on me. i still want to understand how anything i did prior to me coming back from afk was AI. one weak read and a vote in 85?

it couldnt have been that bad since it went all the way to L-1 in my absence.

scummy

voted - wild card. nothing he's posted has made much sense. i'd like to say town lean but the vote for himself and then

the admitted sheep onto you (aubrey) was somewhat sketch.

he was vla for a bit and then made a couple posts about L&J which seemed half hearted and went no where. then he posted several more posts of gibberish. he's got some relevant bits here and there but in general, i dont have a read. the gibberish reads as pretty NAI.

The bolded parts feel a bit contradictory to me. You said you feel like your early vote wasn't that bad since it went on to be a L-1, but you admit to reading that Voted's vote was basically meaningless (a sheep vote).

In addition to the first point, it came to L-1 as a test. It was never going to be a lynch, unless someone had quickhammered right there and then.

[Datisi]

That is his ordered list, the explanations are out of order.

That's copy-pasted from the player list from post #0

[Datisi]

Yes, that's what I'm asking. The reads aren't in that order.

[Datisi]

Yes, that's what I'm asking. The reads aren't in that order.

are you voting liz and jack

No, I'm not. Bite me.

[Datisi]

Voted why did you quote that jesus christ I was so happy there's a new page so I don't have to scroll past that bullshit

[Datisi]

Do you have any other reasons you see Persi as scum other than the vote on you, @zeebu?

[Datisi]

Town: {Persi, Icon}
Townlean: {Aubrey, Voted}
???: {BxW}
Scumlean: {Saudade, L&J}
Scum: {Zeebu}

[Datisi]

The last several pages are all nonsense.

This tunneling needs to stop.

-Blake

How did it happen that you had Weiss readed me, one as townies, one as one of the scumiest?
Absolutely different reads.

What's wrong with that?

-Blake

You play as one slot. Act like it.

[Datisi]

These are my reads so far, not saying all scum is definitely in there or that they're definitely correct. Besides, I don't think I'd be completely surprised if it came down to be LJ/Sau team with some genuine insults.

[Datisi]

These are my reads so far, not saying all scum is definitely in there or that they're definitely correct. Besides, I don't think I'd be completely surprised if it came down to be LJ/Sau team with some genuine insults.

I meant every word I said. I do not respect him as a player and I don’t wish to play any future games with him.

I don't doubt you did. But you don't pick your partners.

[Datisi]

If you join the Datisi wagon, I'll stick on it for awhile longer. Otherwise, I'll probably join the leading opposing wagon against MS. Should MS be town, there is more interest for scum to see them fall. If we're wrong, we're losing both a commanding role and a power role, something that would be a great benefit to scum. I don't see the need to rush things and potentially shoot ourselves in the foot on day one. This should be a wait & see moment if anything. I also just don't think they are that scummy as everyone seems to believe.

I prefer the Datisi vote. Joining the Zeebu wagon isn't my optimal choice just because of the slots that are on it currently and what I said earlier. If a wagon were to even reform on Saude, I'd go there, but I'd just be lynching a null at that point.

just to clarify
your one and only read is that Datisi is scum?

That leaves me with Datisi, Saude, Icon, and Zeebu.

MS is not on the list, yet you're willing to vote them?

[Datisi]

So even though you have a pool of 4 players you'd theoretically like to vote for, if the wagon against me fails, instead of voting for any of the other three, you'll join the opposing wagon on MS, which you're heavily against?

[Datisi]

If you join the Datisi wagon, I'll stick on it for awhile longer.

Otherwise, I'll probably join the leading opposing wagon against MS.

Should MS be town, there is more interest for scum to see them fall. If we're wrong, we're losing both a commanding role and a power role, something that would be a great benefit to scum. I don't see the need to rush things and potentially shoot ourselves in the foot on day one. This should be a wait & see moment if anything. I also just don't think they are that scummy as everyone seems to believe.

I prefer the Datisi vote. Joining the Zeebu wagon isn't my optimal choice just because of the slots that are on it currently and what I said earlier. If a wagon were to even reform on Saude, I'd go there, but I'd just be lynching a null at that point.

Yes, I'm confused.

[Datisi]

Ooooh. Yeah, my bad.

[Datisi]

I am trying to solve the game. I'm simply convinced that zeebu's not town.

[Datisi]

I play the macro game, not the micro game as scum.

Alright. First, care to answer this?

[Datisi]

Okay, some of Ico's latest posts are feeling sus to me, but not yet enough to actaully stop tr him. As for you, you are a townlean for me, but I simply don't see some of your reads.

[Datisi]

Zeebu and Ico as the bigger ones, and MS to an extent. Also it's kind of annoying that you're not even trying to sort Saudade.

[Datisi]

Voted, it's getting hard to tell if you're beng serious or not. Are you still townreading zeebu?

[Datisi]

It's a very good question, but it needs to be combined with 'why not any of the 2 claimed PRs'. A town captain is likely to appoint doc on you, but i disagree scum would let an opportunity to kill off the doc early slip. They can kill the threat to them on N2, without having to worry about the doc being alive.

Maybe that was exactly the scum's thought process? Not kill the obvious target and then claim that the Doc must be scum since he wasn't killed?

[Datisi]

I am not automatically assuming scum would kill a PR over anyone else. I'm wondering why they chose not to. Especially with not 1 but 2 claims out there,

1 of which is a double winner.

This concerns me honestly. If scum didn't try to get rid of an Officer, does that mean at least one of the Officers is scum?

[Datisi]

Hey Voted, instead of throwing usluess sarcastic comments, mind helping us out?

[Datisi]

Well, captain might send doctor to heal them at night insteed of you, protecting himself from nightkill and "claiming" to doctor.

That's assuming that the town!Captain trusts that the Doc won't disobey and kill whoever he was designed to protect.
Also assuming that the Captain is Town to begin with.

[Datisi]

If captain is town, they will confirm at some point that we obeyed and that will clear us.

This doesn't sound too towny to me. Are you calling for the Captain to come out?

[Datisi]

In any case, how can the Captain confirm if you obeyed or not if you never even claimed?

[Datisi]

The only thing bugging me right now is that BxW were one of the few (if not the only one?) defenders of LJK. Could be a WIFOM from their side, but I dunno

[Datisi]

game ends after 4 lynches, maf can do 3 kills by the time.
There is no way maf can kill doc and 3 commanders at night - do 4 kills.
Mafia plays to outnumber town wincon.
It's possible all commanders are town.
Datisi/ Iconeum are hardframing commanders roles.
Pick one of them, I will sheep.

This is again assuming that no Officers get mislynched

[Datisi]

But they scum

we can still use their information

If they are scum, they will claim their target is town.

What does that even mean? There's not even a possibility for a cop?

[Datisi]

First, that's a specific assumption that they're a Follower. Second, Follower (nor Voyeur) cannot detect the factional kill, they can only detect the Poisoner kill.

[Datisi]

No, i don't think so.

[Datisi]

Hey LJK, you planning on claiming anytime soon?

[Datisi]

On page 38. Won’t get caught up until later tonight probably.

Just claim who you protected i guess

[Datisi]

town captain would protect the other PR

How can you be so sure? A lot of players were/are sr the other PR. Town!them could be a great lynch bait?

[Datisi]

Again, good lynch bait / no proof the LT is not scum themselves and therefore wouldn0t be attacked anyway.

[Datisi]

Except no role is really able to confirm itself as Town? If the Captain knew that, why bother?

[Datisi]

Datisi, vote Jack and Kenneth please.

Why the rush? The day's just started.

[Datisi]

game ends after 4 lynches, maf can do 3 kills by the time.
There is no way maf can kill doc and 3 commanders at night - do 4 kills.
Mafia plays to outnumber town wincon.
It's possible all commanders are town.
Datisi/ Iconeum are hardframing commanders roles.
Pick one of them, I will sheep.

game ends after 4 lynches

start 7:2
1 mislynch: 5:2
2 mislynches: 3:2 lylo
3 mislynches: game over

1st mislynch
*nightkill*
2nd mislynch
*nightkill*
lets say town lynches scum
*nightkill*
LYLO

Scum can't nightkill 4 people (unless no lynch)

Hey Voted, mind explaining why mafia NKing 4 people is interesting?

[Datisi]

I mean interesting as you keep coming back to it. And again, why do you keep assuming Commander structure can't get lynched? LJK were close a couple of times.

[Datisi]

I am not lynching outside Datisi Iconeum.

That should be jack/aubrey. Mechanically at least one of them is scum.

Mechanically?

[Datisi]

I am not lynching outside Datisi Iconeum.

That should be jack/aubrey. Mechanically at least one of them is scum.

Mechanically?

Yes. Two claimed PRs, both still alive.

Not sure I follow.

[Datisi]

Wouldn't scum captain send doc on Liz, rather than Persivul?

Why do you think that?

[Datisi]

I'd honestly prefer if Ico claimed first.

[Datisi]

And that's what's pinging me about Ico.

[Datisi]

So Voted, do you ultimately think Captain is scum or town?

[Datisi]

Heck if I know. What are your reads currently, other than LJK that is

[Datisi]

Mind giving any insight into the whole Aubrey should've died/why is BxW dead/Captian should (or not) claim situation?

[Datisi]

What made you change your mind about claiming?

[Datisi]

I actually do believe that.

[Datisi]

Kind of started suspecting Blake to be honest. How could have the doc been protected? Send the JK on him? Not protecting myself could've been risky, but a lot of people were sr me. Doubted scum would attack me.

Persi was one of the most tr players. In case one of the protective PR is scum, it could've been possible that they would simply disobey and try to kill who they were designed to protect. That's why there was a "backup".

[Datisi]

Not if they believed that they were ordered to protect the captain

[Datisi]

I do but it srarts with the captain

The captain is scum. WTF makes you think they'll claim?

So have you given up on this? Or is LJK/me the Hot New Scumteam?

[Datisi]

Alright. So far, I'm willing to vote for LJK, but I want to wait for everyone to have a chance to say something if they want before the lynch.

[Datisi]

Mind giving any insight into the whole Aubrey should've died/why is BxW dead/Captian should (or not) claim situation?

Saudade, while we wait, could you answer this? Minus the last part I guess, it's kinda pointless at this point.

[Datisi]

The fact that BxW died and they were townreading LJK didn't make you doubt your reads?

[Datisi]

Kinda hard trying to read you when all of your answers are so short

[Datisi]

Pers.

oh cool the captain's scum

town captain would protect the other PR

If not PR, why Persi over Blake & Weiss?

So captain has doc protect Persi but follow Saudade? Dafuq????

You yourself seemed confused by the Captain's actions as well.

[Datisi]

omg this wifom is killing me

You're telling me

[Datisi]

I think no matter is command structure is entirely town or not, it's still in their interest to attack there.

[Datisi]

but they didn't

Who's to say they didn't think they were?

and they also didn't attempt to setup a N2 assassination of the LT by taking out the doc

Let's kill Jack slot

And that's what's fking with me. LJK was definitely being scumread. No point in killing a perfect lynch bait.

[Datisi]

Was there anything in BxW iso to hint that they were a part of the commander structure?

[Datisi]

Yes, I'm extremely sorry I didn't send a protective onto a player I had a slight scumlean on.

[Datisi]

Commander hasn't claimed. First you're against outing the Captain, now you want to out the Commander as well?

[Datisi]

Yes, I'm extremely sorry I didn't send a protective onto a player I had a slight scumlean on.

I don't think you made a mistake by not protecting the BW slot. And putting a JK onto the doc is a bit counter-productive unless you had good reason to think scum comes after doc… Which makes this even more confusing

I didn't put the JK onto the doc, what are you on about?

[Datisi]

@LJK: I was willing to bet you were to Follower. I had zero idea who JK was honestly, do it was kind of a shot in the dark. Also, I figured in case of scum!you and town!Sau, you had the biggest chance of making up a result/tripping up and claiming you saw him killing someone or something.

@Ico that was for LJK

[Datisi]

By that logic you would also be tr Persi?

And I skimmed through it while already knowing all the roles.

[Datisi]

It seemed to me they were sorta flip-flopping with their vote. Saying how they're not gonna bother reading Sau since they already have two strong scumreads, then saying how their reads aren't that strong anyway.

[Datisi]

What reason do you think scum!Persi would have for killing them?

[Datisi]

What does Gameshow have to do with this exactly?

[Datisi]

I have read the setup, thank you. Knowing that Follower can't detect factional kills, what was I supposed to do with you? I had no idea who the JK was, so in that regard I could've chosen your target randomly. Making you follow Saudade was a trap to see if you were going to accuse him of anything. You didn't, so why are you getting pissy at me now?

[Datisi]

What does Gameshow have to do with this exactly?

Because scum!RC obviously didn’t need to be protected in that, I did but it gave him cover, in case anyone sr him for not dying.

I really dislike you not protecting Blake & Weiss irrespective of your Persi read. You had no excuse for not putting at least one protective on them.

Did you not read my explanation for putting both protective PRs onto the same player?

[Datisi]

Just because I acknowledged the possibility of you two both being scum doesn't mean I actually thought it was likely. If you have any better ideas as to who I was supposed to send you on, please let me know.

[Datisi]

@Aubrey, who did you think it was? The Captain, not the scum.

[Datisi]

A) You have demonstrated a couple of times that you didn't understand the setup.
B) tr for what? Not falling for a trap?

[Datisi]

If you mean "why wouldn't I tr you for claiming you saw Saudade kill someone", I don't think i need to answer that.

[Datisi]

You never claimed, sure, but you kept talking about "results being posted". I think it was a fair guess that you were an investigative role.

Okay, so say I made you follow Aubrey. You confirm he is indeed a protective PR. Then what? Nobody cced him anyway so it's unlikely he was lying, and knowing he's a PR tells us jack shit about his alignment.

[Datisi]

You claimed yourself that you not understanding a setup is NAI for you? And sure, if the other heads actaully understood the setup then they wouldn't have fallen for it, but I still don't see how a Follower would've been useful one way or the other.

[Datisi]

I don't know. LJK seems to think that it's sus of me to sl a slot ecerone was tring, and to not be able to see the future and know on whom to send protection.

[Datisi]

I'm sorry, I honestly don't get what you're trying to say there.

Because I didn't have a better target for you anyway, so I didn't exctly bother changing it. It was a lucky coincidence I guess that you replaced back in.

[Datisi]

Yes, 2 protectives, none of which I knew the alignment of.

[Datisi]

What criteria? JK is not an investigative role

[Datisi]

I wanted to send them both onto the same person. I was hoping one of them would disobey and try to kill their tagret. It did not work and I'm sorry. Maybe your god-tier mafia skills would allow you to make the correct move, we don't know. But what is done is done, and you're currently the most likely lynch. Maybe instead of "if I were the capeI would have--" you actually try to defend yourself?

[Datisi]

At this point I don't think you'll get mislynched.

[Datisi]

Jesus Christ what is this game. At this point I'm willing to lynch the Persi slot and see where that takes us.

[Datisi]

I'd like to be the hammerer this time. Just to make sure I don't send my orders in and then some twist happens while I'm away.

[Datisi]

Not sure what I think about it tbh. I want to believe there's at least one scum in that 1v1. Anyway, I'll hammer this in some 8 hours, so if anyone has anything to say before we end the day, now's the time.

[Datisi]

That slot got a replacement? Wow. Anyway, you wanna talk to me Sau?

[Datisi]

I decided to replace into this slot originally because I was scumreading Liz/Jack (so I could help them out); on learning we were town I decided not to post in thread, instead just discussing the game with Volxen in the background. However, this game isn't moving forward, and this gamestate only favors scum.

Persivul is scum

, and has a likely partner in Iconeum/Saudade. Datisi/Aubrey are likely town. Let's go through why.

---

Spoiler: Meta

Persivul's Meta

: I've played against town!Persivul and alongside scum!Persivul before. His scumplay usually follows this pattern: Look like he's sorting, get townread, and then turn passive/push an agenda. As town, he continually sorts and tests various slots throughout; feel free to verify this with past games.

This game matches with his scum meta: Till around post 600, he's been appearing "sorty" and was townread. He then stops sorting people, and instead tunnels Liz. The shift in his play is apparent. The rest of his play is largely pushing for mislynches in scummy ways, as I'll explain later.

Spoiler: Scum Agenda

Scum Agenda

: We're town, and we're townreading Aubrey. The lack of NK within our slots isn't confusing - it's great scum play. Achieving a paranoia mislynch on the grounds that a PR would've eaten a NK is a convenient idea for scum, and is arguably better play if planned well. Persivul is highly competent as scum, and should know this.

Yet, he started the day voting Aubrey in 932 - we questioned it, and he shifted his vote in 960 citing it as a "reaction test". The reactions it elicited were: Voted joining the wagon, Iconeum asking the doc to claim his target (?), and us challenging that idea; and this resulted in him voting for us. Aubrey had 0 posts during that.

What did Persivul get out of the reaction test?

This was scum gauging if he could get a lynch on Aubrey; not "reaction testing". His vote on us in that context did not make much sense either, so he justified it with a weak Zeebu|Liz dichotomy and "policy". After this, he makes repeated attacks that one of us/Aubrey is "mechanically" scum while doing nothing else.

Spoiler: Explaining The Night Kill

The Night Kill

: His being a commander fits with the Blake&Weiss NK. The command structure win path wasn't open, so ensuring the other officers die isn't a a priority. He backed down when Datisi claimed Captain quickly, and asked her to use the JK on him with the doc on herself - so the night kill would go through. Blake townread him, yes; but it was not a townread that would've held. Blake has been able to catch scum!Persivul in the past before, and her read progression on him would be unpredictable from his PoV: For reference check CoC1. He got himself townread, then became passive, and Blake was quick to scumread him as D1 was ending. Killing Blake would also make a push on us

much

easier. Also, more importantly, it's suggestive that Blake scumread his partner.

You could argue that the same reasoning applies to us, but it doesn't - I don't think scum!Nancy ever gets townread by Blake and Weiss to begin with. From our PoV, even if we were scum, this was a read that was unlikely to reverse (as the basis for it was Nancy being out of her range). Killing the slot while also being scumread by most others is a terrible decision. Not killing the doctor and driving paranoia upon ourselves, is a bad decision. We would've simply killed the doctor and argued that scum's looking for a command line winpath.

Spoiler: Partner Spec And Other Reads

Persivul's Partner

: Likely Iconeum. A short list of what gives Iconeum scum/partner equity:
1. His D1 play - summarized by Blake in 875.
2. The Blake NK, who had him in her top 2 scumreads.
3. His D2 entry pushing the "one of the claims has to be scum".
4. His pushing for claims - I don't see why needing to know who Aubrey protected was so important, or what our role was, for example. Scum motivation here would be to have a better idea of how to approach the game - if he's scum he knows there's both a doctor and a jailkeep. Knowing who the captain is is important - if it's a mislynchable slot, lynch and get Persivul to take control. If it's a hard lynch, pocket them. Note that the only claim he didn't want out was Commander... and guess who the Commander is?
5. Persivul interactions: Can't find posts where he's trying to sort Persivul. Interestingly, after Blake derails the wagon on my slot D1, Persivul votes Iconeum. Blake follows, and Persivul changes his vote soon after to Zeebu on the basis of "re-reading ISOs this is worse". Persivul never bothers about Iconeum afterwards.

Aubrey, note that scum don't have daytalk. The "chiding" part of it is easily faked and also something I'd do with a scumbuddy if I was pursuing a common scum agenda to distance myself.

I can also see a universe with Persi/Saudade as the scumteam from how they approach each other. Persi keeps Saudade at null, says he's a good scum player in 627 and that he has to do a deeper meta dive; which he never follows through with. Saudade isn't contributing to this game - between his taunts to Blake and tunnel on us, he isn't saying much. Saudade does this as both alignments, so I'm not really sure. I strongly think we should lynch Persivul's slot first, and go into Icon/Saudade.

Voted's snark remarks aren't helping the game, but they're doing nothing to push an agenda either. Blake kill makes less sense when she's townreading both Persivul and Voted if Voted is his partner given both were townread. The simpler answer is that he's town.

Aubrey's town FMPOV (apart from his dayplay) because if he were scum and *not* with an officer, he'd probably pursue that winpath when he knew he was targeting Persivul - which means he'd night kill us, didn't happen. Don't see Aubrey+Persivul or Aubrey+Datisi scum teams.

- Kenneth (Auro)

Be honest, did you post this because you felt the Liz was illogical in her defense?. Saudade is 100% town

from your pov because one of captain and power roles is def scum

and if you are scumreading me, you should town read saud. This lynch on saud is something you should never ever accept.

Can you just walk me through this real quick?

[Datisi]

@Ico, what about lynching Voted?

[Datisi]

Are you even reading the game?

I backed off because of you nancy but if your slot is going to keep repeating BLAKE BLAKE BLAKE instead of try to solve, I'm going to have to follow icons lead. At least he knows what he's doing .

I thought it was you driving our mislynch because I 100% disagree with you. Why is my Blake argument bad, when it’s true? It’s beyond stupid to discredit my reasoning on that and if that results in our mislynch, I’ll be giving anyone who continues to discredit it plenty of shit in dead thread, so you might want to steer clear of it.

My Blake argument is logically sound and I never back off valid arguments, even if it results in our mislynch. Convince me why it isn’t 100% logically sound then because that is the only way I’ll reconsider it. And also, you accusing my slot of not solving is patently false. I have posted my solve. I don’t want to tell Aubrey to doc Icon because I want to make sure she is protected. If Aubrey were jk and Icon were doc, I’d want Icon to doc Aubrey but then he can’t protect Daitsi and FYI, I’m not tr anyone who is dumb enough to push a mislynch on us because they happen to be allergic to sound facts and logic.

If town is stupid enough to mislynch us for silly reasons, I don’t know how you think I can stop it? If you’re town, all scum has to do is kill you tonight and we’ve already lost.

You are aware of the easy kill-the-town-command-structure scum autowin, right?

My vote is clearly a protest vote because you’re the one who gets the lion’s share of the blame here for discrediting a valid solve on why we’re obvtown from this, so even if Icon is pushing this, you still bear responsibility for invalidating our correct argument.

But whatever.

UNVOTE:


And who do you think we should be voting for?

Correct me if I'm wrong, in that scenario I'd still be alive?

[Datisi]

Okay, I've sent the orders in.

If I die tonight, Ico eats rope tomorrow, no questions asked.

[Datisi]

He's V/LA until later today, right? We still have a bit of time left, might be worth if he provides a full reads list.

[Datisi]

Im past the point of caring anymore. Do what y’all want.

I relate to this in all 5 dimensions

+1 to this. This game is getting tiring.

VOTE: Liz Jack and Kenneth

Just a reminder:

If I die tonight, Ico eats rope tomorrow, no questions asked.

[Datisi]

If this is a troll I'm done with this site i swear to god.

[Datisi]

aaaaaaaagh i hate this

[Datisi]

hydra heads if you have like a pt or some shit go there please i can't take this anymore

[Datisi]

CAPTAIN underpants is my favorite character, DON'T underestimate him. JK, lol. Seriously, you should ask YOURSELF though.

OH MY GOD I HATE THIS WHY ISNT THE MOD ONLINE

[Datisi]

CAPTAIN underpants is my favorite character, DON'T underestimate him. JK, lol. Seriously, you should ask YOURSELF though.

i Feel fkin threatened like why do yoU do these triCks liKe are theY genuinely unavOidable Ughhhhhh

[Datisi]

i cant. i wanted to believe you were town hydra. i wanted to. i really did.

[Datisi]

Then why hammer US??

because YOU were acting SCUMmy

[Datisi]

@scumbuddy
UNITED STATES CANADA MEXICO PANAMA HAITI JAMAICA PERU

[Datisi]

Mary from Ib. Great game 10/10 I highly reccomend it.

[Datisi]

Yeah, so you have some entertainment while we weed out your scumbuddy!

[Datisi]

I Came Out to Have a Good Time and I'm Honestly Feeling So Attacked Right Now

[Datisi]

o shit u figured it out abort mission

[Datisi]

If you're town, scum are in auto dude...

only if Ico+aubrey scumteam

honestly if this is the case just come out now so i can suicide irl thank you

[Datisi]

I think Icon+anyone. Icon disobeys, lynch Icon, NK you.
Lynching him would've been a safer bet in retrospect, instead of lynching an officer

in that case Aubrey will be on RP. so it's icon+aubrey that's the autoloss.

[Datisi]

ugh if this ain't the worst part of the day

[Datisi]

The orders are now between me, the PRs, and the scum.
unless both PRs are also scum in which case put me out of my misery tonight please thank you

[Datisi]

why exactly should i say that?

[Datisi]

I'm aware it's not auto loss unless ico/aubrey.
But the more twillight time passes the more i feel like it is those two. Maybe I should just go to bed...

[Datisi]

No no, I get it. Don't worry.

[Datisi]

Aubrey I swear to god. I swear to satan. I swear to whatever are you kidding me.

[Datisi]

You do understand how it's mechanical autowin if you and ico are scum right? If that's the case you wouldn't torture me like this right?

[Datisi]

Goodbye. See yall in like 3 irl days. Have a good night everyone.

[Datisi]

<3
fo real tho it's getting late i need to crash. Good luck tonight Town.

[Datisi]

No deaths? Anyway I can confirm that neither of the PR disobeyed me.

Also I don't think doc receives a success message?

[Datisi]

Bitch you're lucky i didn't hammer your ass yesterday

[Datisi]

datisi what was icons order? jk you?

Yep.

Gimme a sec, why ico = scum? Do you believe you got attacked RP?

[Datisi]

There's a no kill. Scum are not no killing on purpose, I assume.
I JK'd Datisi. Datisi is auto-clear.
Aubrey doc'd RP, which is a deviation from the plan so scum didn't know. SCUM DIDN'T KNOW. They had no reason to assume the SOLID plan wasn't going to be in place. THEY DIDN'T KNOW.

If Aubrey is scum, then there would have been a kill. Aubrey is cleared town imo. So is Redpanda.

If Voted isn't scum, then Saudude is.

Yeah, the problem with this is that you also didn't know who the doctor wad going to protect

[Datisi]

But still, Aubrey is never the second lynch. Doc is cleared.

This is assuming scum didn't no-kill. Which I'm not 100% sold on yet honestly

[Datisi]

Datisi - Apparently captain decided to NOT follow the plan, and not protect me (the JK). And I'm still alive. So town.

@ico, from your pov, how does that clear me?

@sau, your thoughts on the RP's plan?

[Datisi]

But they scum

we can still use their information

If they are scum, they will claim their target is town.

What does that even mean? There's not even a possibility for a cop?

Follower. If scum!they targeted their scummate who killed sameone, will they claim it?

This post isn't sitting well with me. LJK wasn't out as the Follower at the time

[Datisi]

Scum aubrey optimal choice is to kill Icon but didn't take it.

I've been thinking about this. I'm not sure I agree. The plan was for him to protect Icon, and only me and Aubrey knew that wasn't going to be the case. Had Icon died, the two of us would've most likely been next. And even if scum!Aubrey managed to convince everyone to lynch me first, he would've followed.

In any case, another thought came to me. Voted wasn't online since before the end of Day 2. Unless he was online as hidden, maybe there's no nightkill simply because nobody was there to give it?

[Datisi]

Fair enough. I'm down with lynching Voted, but I'm unsure what comes after that if he flips green.

[Datisi]

Sau, do you have any reason for tring Voted other than "he didn't ping me"?

[Datisi]

Is everyone here willing to do some fast nighting if we lynch Voted sometime soon?

also i don't have the orders in pls no hammer yet thank you

[Datisi]

I don't like refreshing the game thread for 48 hours.

[Datisi]

Don't worry, I'm not going to hammer until he comes back and says his peace.

[Datisi]

awwww, i got excited when i saw there's an unread post

[Datisi]

Your life must be thrilling

don't remind me.

[Datisi]

is it "antitiown" to discuss possible n3 actions right now?

[Datisi]

We need to agree on a solid 100%-scumproof plan so i can throw it in the trash and do the exact opposite again.
Kinda want to believe the is an optimal strategy here somewhere, but i don't see it yet

[Datisi]

Say that it's Night 1. A Townie got mislynched. One Scum is being widely TR, the other widely SR.
In a setup like this, who do they send in to do the kill?

[Datisi]

Is that important?

I'm trying to figure out now what to do if/when we get to mylo/lylo and I'm still alive

[Datisi]

@Sau one more post about math and I'm voting you

[Datisi]

VOTE: Saudade

[Datisi]

eh, I'll unvote in a bit, he's not eating rope today

[Datisi]

Can we vote voted now

hmmmmmmm

[Datisi]

Alright, enough of this
UNVOTE: Saudade
trying to reread d1 gave me a bigger headache than any math babble could

[Datisi]

Heh, funny you ask that. Nobody.
RP is my strongest tr at the moment. For everyone else I can see a (stronfer or weaker) scum!scenario.

[Datisi]

Mechanics mostly. As much as an unprotected doc staying alive is a great lynch bait, I can't help but to have doubts. And they were the biggest defender of LJK.

[Datisi]

Consensus was JK on me, Doc on Ico. I deviated from that plan, and he knew that. No NK would be a way to make himself seem innocent, since killing you could be suspicious.
Just saying, Aubrey is definitely not on top of my list, and I understand the above scenario is unlikely. But I'm simply not 100% convinced he's innocent.

[Datisi]

After saudade got to L-1 and I greenlit a hammer, Saudade, RP and me voted for LJK.
That would also seem to clear RP, since they could've easily hammered him.

[Datisi]

Oh, i definitely agree that Voted's most likely dying today. But 1) i don't wanna rush it, at least not before everyone checks in, 2) i'd hate going into n3/d4 unpreapred.

[Datisi]

We need to agree on a solid 100%-scumproof plan so i can throw it in the trash and do the exact opposite again.

For legal purposes, this was a joke.
The reason for my n2 orders was that I wasn't willing to risk another officer dying if LJK turned out to be a Town Lt. Since scum's 2nd win condition is obviously not valid anymore, I don't have a reason to pull off a wacky play like that again.

[Datisi]

I think we are such terrible company Voted left the site

i like how you said "we" and not "you"

[Datisi]

Glad you understand Aubrey.

I have sent something in, just in case of lolhammers, but I'm not exactly satisfied. I'm trying to find something that would potentially leave the Town at a good place should I die without me revealing the plan. I haven't exactly found that.

[Datisi]

Oh the choices. Do I keep the monster at bay but potentially be a monster myself, or do you keep your trusted knight with you that has kept you alive so far, but limits your quest in potentially finding scum.

Glad I’m not in your shoes

It all depends on how much he trusts his pawns

How could he, for there's a traitor among them

[Datisi]

Yeah, sounds good. The day can end if you ask me.

[Datisi]

RP, anything you wanna add before the hammer drops?

[Datisi]

Shhh, it's okay Sau, we'll lynch your sr tomorrow. :3

Maybe.

[Datisi]

VOTE: Voted

[Datisi]

Goddamn i was hoping that was the mod

[Datisi]

uuuuuuuugh ;_;

[Datisi]

I just found out I need to get up at 5:30 tomorrow to be able to make it till noon to get some stupid documents. Which means we must be different alignments. Goddammit Aubrey why do you hurt me like this :'(

[Datisi]

why you need me to pray if you're gonna get the perfect grade

[Datisi]

gah this waiting is killing me.

[Datisi]

Jesus christ I'm alive i was so sure i was gonna die

[Datisi]

Jesus christ I'm alive i was so sure i was gonna die

how were you ever going to die?

night actions please

You're the only PR left alive...
Paranoia i guess, i thought it was the most likely scenario. Guess not.

[Datisi]

i don't know how to solve this game

i came in here wanting to go after Aubrey

i suck

Didn't you want to go after sau yesterday?

[Datisi]

Yes, I sent Icon on RP, and Icon didn't disobey. RP is confirmed innocent now.

I send Aubrey on myself. He obviously didn't disobey.

And yes, PoE, that's what I meant.

When I said I thought I was dead, I figured that would've been the most likely case if either of the PR's are scum (scum! Aubrey disobeys and claims he was sent on someone else, scum!Icon jails Aubrey and kills me)

We could in theory no lynch today. But if we assume that scum is either Saudade or Icon:
- if there's a kill, scum!Icon is confirmed, so in case of scum!Icon, he will simply no-kill
- scum!Saudade won't be able to kill anyway

And that will lead us nowhere I feel. If anyone has a different view on it let me know, I'm still not sure what to do today.

[Datisi]

Also hi Sau what's good