Micro 881_Tourist Trap | GAME OVER

[Austerity]

Contrary to popular belief, I do, in fact, exist.

[Austerity]

And while I may have a bulletproof heart, I do not have a bulletproof vest.

[Austerity]

Not tracker.

[Austerity]

I'm sorry, but we're going to need more explanation for this request. I do see other players are following along, but I don't yet understand why. You've always done an all-call in the newbie area for one role, but never two.

--MJL

At this point, the only possible setup with tracker is doctor/tracker. So if tracker claims, they can't be killed.

[Austerity]

In JK 9er, the scum who ballsy autoclaims probably just wins.

This isn't true, if the jailkeeper claims after a scumflip they will jail the BP claim because there's no reason not to.

[Austerity]

What's wrong with 238?

[Austerity]

I think that sort of brazen sucking up is rather towny.

[Austerity]

Self-deprecation is a personality thing, not an alignment thing.

[Austerity]

It wasn't sheeping though. He didn't say "I'm voting with you because I think you are usually right" or something like that.

[Austerity]

Does anyone have experience with scum-Azorius?

[Austerity]

VOTE: Azor

Let's see what happens

Do you think he'll be easier to read under pressure?

[Austerity]

He can't get any harder to read.

So why would you wagon someone you don't have a read on?

[Austerity]

Because when LHF get wagoned, they often get lynched, regardless of alignment. And if he's town, which statistically speaking he probably is if you have no read on him, we've lost a mislynch and gained nothing.

[Austerity]

Statistically speaking if we sit here with our thumbs up our asses and never vote anyone we'll all die to the mafia.

I mean, yes, of course. But there's a middle ground between never lynching and running up a policy wagon barely 24 hours after the start of the game.

[Austerity]

Nice fluffpost my guy

Fluffposting is perfectly fine if you're also posting content, and that wasn't really a fluffpost anyway.

[Austerity]

Anyone not in the town!bloc is fair game, I'd suggest staying inside.

This is a good system, and pretty much exactly how I operate... but not on RL day 1.

[Austerity]

Is there a reason you're cutting down every post I make?

I will cut down every post I disagree with, regardless of who posted it.

[Austerity]

OMGUS is usually not a scumtell though.

[Austerity]

OMGUS is usually not a scumtell though.

Give a definitive read. Azorius is scum/town. Do it now before you look scummy.

Why don't you want me to look scummy?

[Austerity]

Jesus Inferno please spoiler huge quotes like that in the future.

[Austerity]

Most of his posting makes me think he's trying to get other people to scumread/townread specific players without coming out and scumreading/townreading specific players.

I will always encourage good arguments and discourage bad ones, whether or not I agree with the argument's conclusion.

I am interested to see what happens when I shine a light on him.

I'll give you a sneak preview: absolutely nothing.

[Austerity]

If you would like me to come out and say it, yes, I think Azorius is > rand town. But that's not the main reason I want to prevent a wagon on him.

[Austerity]

I have no intentions of stopping it immediately at this point, TWW seems pretty obvious scum to me.

[Austerity]

TeamWorldwide's self centered critique of my early reads list was an excellent post in my opinion. I SHOULD have had a read on them and they called it out. Leaning town on them and I don't think you're going to get anywhere unless you case them for me.

Link to this?

[Austerity]

playing in lobbies with people who want to be town leader is really obnoxious

Fixed.

[Austerity]

Austerity, give me a list with everyone in the game so far, top to bottom, with your town at the top and mafia at the bottom.

Azorius
Conflict
Everyone else
Jingle

[Austerity]

Azorius, that's a tad ironic my friend.

[Austerity]

How am I derailing today?

You're telling everyone what to do rather than just letting them play.

(And obviously you're allowed and encouraged to request things and interact with people, but what you're doing is far more distracting than that.)

[Austerity]

Jingle

Whisper your sweet nothings into my ear, bby.

My scumread on you is very slight and probably not > rand, but it's due to the possibility that you intentionally misconstrued my play.

[Austerity]

So town should just buy any shady ass claim change? Fuck that.

That's jumping to extremes. You can sheep more without believing every sketchy claim you hear.

[Austerity]

That's boring. What did I misconstrue?

See 379

[Austerity]

You were assuming that I was supporting/refuting arguments because I wanted people to come to certain conclusions, but really I was just doing it because of the arguments themselves.

[Austerity]

So... You disagree that there's an inherent scum value in getting town to draw faulty conclusions on their own? Or you disagree that that is a valid interpretation of what you've been doing?

The latter. My aim is to cut down on faulty arguments, which should reduce the frequency of faulty conclusions.

[Austerity]

These are both examples of you leading a conclusion without coming to that conclusion yourself FMPOV. What is the faulty logic you're destroying?

With the first one, I was concerned that my own logic that Azorius being overconfident was towny could have been wrong, if he has been known to play in a similar way as scum.

With the second one, I know that a lot of players, particularly ones who are liable to fly off the handle as Azorius seems to be, do not get easier to read under pressure, and will instead sometimes implode completely. I didn't want you to push him under the implication that it would necessarily help in reading him.

[Austerity]

So... You were presuming my motivation in an attempt to prevent me from coming to faulty conclusions based on logic I may or may not apply in the future instead of reading into what it was I was doing and why?

I don't understand why this is phrased the way it is. I was attempting to understand what you were doing and why, so that I could possibly prevent you from doing something dumb. In the meantime, it's possible our interactions could inform my read on you, but that wasn't my primary goal.

What have you been doing that isn't stopping faulty arguments?

...Playing the game? Read my damn ISO.

[Austerity]

What are you trying to accomplish with that line of questioning?

[Austerity]

What are you trying to accomplish with that line of questioning?

(The one that I responded to in 467, if that wasn't clear.)

[Austerity]

Wynaut?

...because I don't attempt to sort every single post in the game. I didn't respond to your post because I saw it and wanted to sort it. I responded to it because I saw it and wanted to talk about whether wagoning Azorius was a good idea.

Lynx, please.

You want a link... to my ISO?

I can tell you what I've been attempting to do thus far this game, and that's generate content. I'm not even thinking about who I'd like to lynch yet. I am forming reads, but as I'm sure you saw, they're not at the forefront. I play by interacting with people, asking questions, getting into arguments and discussions, and analyzing reasons and possibilities.

If you don't see me doing that much yet, well, you need only wait.

[Austerity]

Well, there's three distinct possibilities.

1. I'm town trying to figure out your thought process in order to place you.

2. I'm scum pretending to be trying to figure out your thought process in order to convince the thread at large that I'm trying to place you.

3. I'm fucking with you in an attempt to keep you off balance for some purpose of unknown nefariousness or benevolence.

The correct answer is obviously 7.

Fair enough.

I think I've expounded enough on my mafia theory at this point. Are you satisfied?

[Austerity]

...whos LHF?

LHF = low hanging fruit = Azorius in that instance. Basically people who are lynchbaity or not hard to lynch as either alignment.

[Austerity]

it feels like you're brushing off suspicion here

Does it make me scum?

[Austerity]

i barely have any reads

This is towny.

[Austerity]

Azorius Conflict TWW town. Maybe Jingle because hyper-interrogating me and then admitting it doesn't affect his read on me at all reads as pretty genuine.

[Austerity]

i mean yeah, defend properly instead of brushing off suspicion

In what way do you think I was brushing off suspicion (which as far as I understand is basically saying "your feelings are invalid" without explaining why), and why would I be more likely to act that way as scum?

[Austerity]

Particularly in comparison with defending, which you seemed to identify as a townier action. Are towniest more likely to defend their actions than scum?

[Austerity]

i barely have any reads

This is towny.

how is me

not

having reads townie what

ebwop

Because it's not hard to fake reads as scum. Scum will, in general, try to avoid drawing undue attention, and having no reads is a great way to get people on your ass about why not.

In my experience, players that go out of their way to state that they have no reads are usually town.

[Austerity]

Moar Captain Planet Votes.

Why?

[Austerity]

Wynaut?

Because I don't think they're scum...?

[Austerity]

Because I don't think they're scum...?

Wynaut?

I explained this one page ago.

They went out of their way to point out they had no reads. That is a great way to get negative attention and pressure on you as scum, and it's completely avoidable because coming up with fake reads is very easy.

Their follow-up explanation about forgetting reads feels genuine too. Scum care a lot more about consistency whereas town just say whatever they're feeling at the time.

[Austerity]

I explained this one page ago.

My one weakness! Pagetops!

Make that

two

pages ago.

[Austerity]

I think your reasoning is garbage.

Provide me an alternative wagon of equal or greater value.

My reasoning is not garbage and is instead based on significant experience.

I would probably be willing to wagon anyone who isn't a townread, but my preferred wagons would be Gamma or B&B.

[Austerity]

Really? Cause this doesn't suggest to me that you prefer any wagon, considering neither of your suspects are being voted and you're not voting anyone.

You are correct. If I had a strong preference for who I wanted lynched, I'd be voting them. That's why I used the terminology "probably willing to wagon" and not "want to lynch."

Unfortunately, there's no way to express a strong preference for who you don't want lynched besides, you know, yelling at people.

[Austerity]

All I get from this is that you think not lynching > lynching TWW, which I disagree with fundamentally.

Deciding on a lynch later in the day > lynching anyone right now. Don't put words in my mouth about no-lynching.

[Austerity]

It's not that he's saying he wants a no lynch, it's that he's doing fuckall to push towards a lynch.

Exactly.

Now you're getting my playstyle

[Austerity]

VOTE: Austerity

Why?

[Austerity]

It's definitely true that my arguments aren't always the easiest to follow, to be fair.

I think that's part of the reason so many people are throwing out lazy scumreads on me.

For everyone scumreading me, I'd like you to answer: do you think I'd be more likely to play this way as scum than as town? How come?

[Austerity]

That misses the point. If you're calling a behavior scummy, you have to explain why the player wouldn't be likely to do that as town.

Do you think I, as scum, don't know how to look like I'm "pushing the game forward?"

Because it sounds to me like you don't like how I'm playing because it's different from how you play, and you've decided that for some reason that means I'm scum.

[Austerity]

So just use the words "policy lynch" then.

Don't dance around it.

[Austerity]

And I don't know what the hell you mean by not providing stances. I gave four townreads. If those are right, that's enough to win the game on the spot. (Even if three of them are, it probably is as well.)

You want to engage me about my reads? Freaking do it, what are you waiting for?

You want me to vote? A single vote does nothing. Get a wagon on B&B, Gamma, Inferno, or RT, and I'll join it. I've already said this.

You want me to commit to a slot that I think is extremely likely to be scum? I can't, because there aren't any. This early in the game, there's too much noise and not enough signal. Rest assured, when I have one, I will share it.

But until then, don't sit around and say I'm useless and should be almost-policy lynched because I'm prioritizing townreads over scumreads.

[Austerity]

Your behavior has a clear scum motivation

But it also has a clear town motivation.

Which means it's not indicative of alignment, and instead indicative of playstyle. BECAUSE IT'S MY PLAYSTYLE.

[Austerity]

Also Jingle... you modded Lynch Happy. Did you pay any attention to the game?

Remember how I was the only one to defend no lunch when everyone else was, well, lynch happy?

[Austerity]

but honestly i havent really looked that hard into this game, still kind of disappointed austerity didnt even acknowledge The Fruit

Sorry, I was kind of in the middle of something lol and I hadn't checked back since.

One vote does not a wagon make but at this point it's probably better than nothing so

VOTE: Gamma

[Austerity]

Hmm
Actually looking through Austerity’s ISO, there is only one mention of both me and BnB, and that is in the fruity post you mentioned above. Where did those reads come from?

Process of elimination.

I townread Azorius, TWW, and CoI, and I townlean Jingle.

[Austerity]

Unless they, you know, flip red.

Even if they do, to be honest.

This is not a situation to be quickhammering as town.

[Austerity]

they feel eww everytime they post

What makes them scum eww and not just lynchbait eww?

(Because, like, their posting is definitely awkward. But that doesn't make them scum.)

[Austerity]

First of all, the cop claim and then subsequent survival implies doc. Which is 2 ICs, one of which is hidden.

Second of all, if we lynch the JK claim, there's a 50% chance that the JK claim flips RB. If the rb flips and the cop is outed, they're unkillable. They get an investigation off every night until the doctor is shot. If that's one night (worst case) we have 2 conftown. If that's two nights, 3 conftown and we can lynch EVERY player who could possibly be mafia.

tl;dr, outing the cop leads to potential follow the cop. Outing the doc leads to not that.

I don't think a scum RB ever claims JK, is the thing. If scum have a RB they know the exact setup, and they'd know that claiming something and getting CC'd by the cop is actually worse than claiming VT and just getting lynched.

[Austerity]

I could believe it if Jingle were posting mechanical stuff to distract people from scumhunting.

But I seriously doubt that he's intentionally posting bad mechanical ideas and hoping nobody calls him out. He's one of the strongest people on the site with mechanics.

[Austerity]

-snip-

-nope-

[Austerity]

Let's be honest, RC isn't the threat scum!tn is worried about, but Jingle and Katyusha

like

this ain't a townpost no matter how you slice it

Because it's untrue?

[Austerity]

also the "let's be honest"

which

let's be honest

is a scum phrasing

Let's be honest, no it isn't

In all seriousness though I think this is a player dependent tell, so unless you have meta on the specific person who posted that, I don't agree. I think this is true for most of the arguments you've just given.

[Austerity]

tww to me feels like lynchbait that scum are setting up to hard defend and look good from.

The wagon on TWW has clearly stagnated and I'm kinda wondering why so many people are still sitting on it.

I would like to see another wagon that isn't CoI or Azorius. Dueling Gamma/CoI wagons would be interesting.

[Austerity]

Gamma admitting that his TWW vote was intended to be a hammer is fairly towny though.

UNVOTE: normally I wouldn't unvote this late in the day but with a vacant slot and deadline frozen I think it's okay.

I'd still like to see a wagon that isn't CoI/Azorius/TWW appear, but I'm not sure who my preference is. Maybe Jingle.

[Austerity]

Wow.

I think Austerity is scum really hard after that and a reread.

Elaborate?

[Austerity]

Don't talk about it, be about it.

When I start wagons, they almost never go through. I'm not a leader. I'm a follower.

It's why all the bad wagons are messing me up. I feel like nobody's listening to me because I'm not strongly proposing an alternative. This was a problem in Lynch Happy.

[Austerity]

Are you saying I'm going to have to give references and explanations instead of relying on Welp I'm RC?

I mean I get scumread all the time for my playstyle, and I feel like it should be abundantly clear that most of the things I've done that are unusual are playstyle, so like. I would at least like to know what it is that you don't like so I can demonstrate that it's not scum indicative for me.

[Austerity]

Mainly I just

Find it so hard to reconcile Gammas bullshit fucking policy Lynch worthy quickhammer attempt with her being town

Really?

Gamma's done dumb shit like that before as town.

[Austerity]

I don't necessarily think it's out of his scumrange, but like, it's definitely in his townrange.

[Austerity]

You're really good at the game as scum too, to be fair. And given how sheepy people are this game I wouldn't be surprised if scum-you can mislynch CoI and walk away without a scratch.

I'd consolidate on CoI over Azorius or TWW, to be sure, but I don't think it needs to happen yet, and especially not with a vacant slot.

[Austerity]

To be clear, I do townlean you. But I don't think it's a good idea to rush the end of the day.

[Austerity]

The only way to catch me as scum is to make me lead lynches and hold me accountable if they flip town.

I thought your whole thing as scum was that you can push mislynches and avoid getting in trouble for it afterward?

[Austerity]

Is this gonna be that kind of lobby? I didn't think it was.

Hopefully not. But the single best thing I use to read you, which is something you told me when you were town and annoyed that I was scumreading you, is that the way to tell town-you and scum-you apart is that you get mislynches to happen as scum.

Maybe I misunderstood that, or maybe it's different now, but I did use it to correctly townread you in that game.

[Austerity]

I didn't need to force a wagon that I would be responsible for when I could easily have let TWW or AS go through.

Also, all of this assumes that CoI flips town

That's fair.

I feel better about you after thinking about this for a bit. If you're scum there must be one town in those two, and I townread them both besides. So yeah, sticking your neck out to push through a different mislynch would be a weak play.

(Obviously if CoI flips scum, I won't really have any issues with you. That's why I'm not focusing on that scenario.)

[Austerity]

I'm p sure ur an alt, may I get a hint as to whose you are?

We've played together a lot, but I don't think I could help you without just outing myself.

[Austerity]

No

[Austerity]

!!!

Okay so the PR is going on Jingle then. If they get an inno, they'll stay quiet, otherwise they will claim. (If they are cop and get RB'd, they need to claim so it's not taken as a false inno.)

[Austerity]

Btw

@mod I unvoted in 958

[Austerity]

Not that it really matters; I'm not going to hammer this while people still have things to discuss.

[Austerity]

Also, I feel like this should go without saying, but if CoI claims a PR, don't CC it.

[Austerity]

Preferably you should keep your catchup small and concise, but if you must make it huge, please put it in one post and spoiler it so I don't have to read it.

[Austerity]

Jingle only called TI on himself after a scum flip, I thought?

[Austerity]

And if he were scum he'd have known that CoI wasn't flipping scum...

[Austerity]

Jingle only called TI on himself after a scum flip, I thought?

Why does this ping me

Is it wrong?

The whole "TI stays silent if they get an inno so we have an inno without outing any PR's" thing doesn't work without a scum flip, because it could be a JK.

[Austerity]

There wasn't any real risk to it, because the plan was specifically to have Jingle only be checked if CoI flipped scum, which scum-Jingle would know would not happen. Now, I guess it might make a hypothetical cop more interested in checking him even on a town flip, but there's no reason that that should have to be the case.

[Austerity]

You're really good at the game as scum too, to be fair. And given how sheepy people are this game I wouldn't be surprised if scum-you can mislynch CoI and walk away without a scratch.

(...)

I would like to discuss this post. I personally find it scummy, painting Katyusha-slot as possible scum.
Austerity, what was the motivation behind it?
-Parasol Slime

Yeah, I was obviously trying to suggest that ESC was possible scum. RC's a very strong scum player and so what I said was true, and I didn't want that to happen. How's it scummy?

[Austerity]

VOTE: Bingle

[Austerity]

I'm here

I'm weirded out by the Jingle wagon completely falling apart as soon as I joined it. I definitely prefer lynching Jingle to B&B.

[Austerity]

I'm here

I'm weirded out by the Jingle wagon completely falling apart as soon as I joined it. I definitely prefer lynching Jingle to B&B.

Why to both parts?

Because it looked like everyone else on the wagon wasn't serious about it and they jumped ship as soon as it hit L-1. That could indicate distancing, actually.

As for the latter, you have seemed actively nasty in your pushes, whereas B&B hasn't really given me strong vibes either way yet. And B&B are much more LHF-y.

I’m pretty psyched about the level of activity from all of the active lurkers.

I do apologize. I probably shouldn't have joined this on my alt because it's such a pain to log in on mobile.

Austerity, could you offer us two reasons why to lynch Bingle?

-Water Slime

He's been pushing easy targets with relatively shallow analysis. The most recent example of this is pushing you for mischaracterizing his play this game, as though that's something you would do on purpose as scum.

And, I don't understand the RC kill from any point of view except a fearkill from the other big-name player in the game. I especially don't think B&B kill ESC, unless they're partnered with Jingle.

[Austerity]

Why don't you think ANY scum kills the only really active and powerful town voice here?

Because it was an active and powerful town voice that just hard pushed a mislynch.

[Austerity]

I have a different question: who would have considered lynching them this day phase if they had survived the night?

I was actually considering voting them immediately coming into the day after CoI flipped.

So obviously, no, I would not have killed them.

[Austerity]

Not cop.

[Austerity]

I think I see what Bingle might be getting at with the slip.

[Austerity]

So, your reasoning is that either there's a cop or a JK, and since scum didn't intentionally NK, it's not a cop, so it has to be a JK?

Do I have this right?

[Austerity]

Pedit: that was at Inferno.

[Austerity]

Austerity, what are your thoughts with the validity of the slip without outing what it is?

I will answer this after Inferno clarifies.

[Austerity]

Bingle, I think I’ve caught on to what you think my slip is
I’m gonna keep my mouth shut for now and see what comes of it
You’re welcome

...why? It's not as if seeing the slip versus not seeing it is alignment indicative, it's just how good people are at looking for stuff like that now that they know it's there.

If you see now why it looks like a slip, can you explain why you said it?

[Austerity]

We should make sure everyone knows who the jailkeeper will target if we hit scum today.

[Austerity]

Now that everyone's claimed not cop, Inferno, can you explain the slip?

[Austerity]

Specifically, the slip is that if Inferno's team had two goons, they'd have known since D1 that it was either a lone JK or a lone cop, and so he may very well have forgotten that town didn't have that knowledge.

I'm normally not one to believe in slips, but this one seems pretty compelling, since I don't really see a reason why someone would make an error like that as town.

[Austerity]

He didn't forget the setup. What he said was correct... if there were two goons.

Who do you think is scum, Gamma?

[Austerity]

If Ferno is scum, who does the JK target in case JK flips over night?

Gamma IMO.

[Austerity]

Keep in mind if we mislynch today JK has to block correctly or town loses

Yes that is what Bingle just said. If we do mislynch today, JK should decide on their own who to target.

[Austerity]

Inferno, what's your Bingle read?

[Austerity]

We just need to come to a decision about who JK will target if Inferno flips scum. Current votes:
Austerity votes Gamma
Gamma votes Austerity
Bingle votes Slime
Slime votes ???
Azorius votes ???

We need answers from the last two.

[Austerity]

Then JK uses their own judgement.

[Austerity]

Yeah I don't really follow that one either.

Also the JK target is not decided yet. No player has even received more than one vote for it -.-

You should take those votes off and wait until Slime casts a (hopefully deciding) vote.

[Austerity]

It wasn't because of a quickhammer, it was just because there's no reason to be voting yet when we're not ready to end the day.

[Austerity]

I don't know who is or isn't likely to be JK, nor do I think it's a good idea to speculate on it.

I individually townread everyone but Gamma, so I personally think Gamma is a better target, but Slime is probably the weakest of those townreads so I guess I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to them being jailed.

[Austerity]

I'd rather everyone just name their "target" and then maybe we collectively decide one

This actually is fine, because if the JK doesn't die overnight they'll be claiming tomorrow anyway.

So we are at:
Austerity will jail Gamma
Gamma will jail Austerity
Bingle will jail Slime
Azorius will jail Bingle
Slime will jail Austerity

If everyone's okay with this, then we can end the day.

[Austerity]

May I ask why?

Also, uh, don't answer this...

[Austerity]

I can dig it. It's probably slightly suboptimal, given the potential for scum to shoot a protected player, but that's a situation where we should be winning anyway.

Scum shooting a protected player isn't bad; we mislynch the protected player and the JK clears someone else and dies, leaving one conftown to decide between the final two. That's the same as if the JK gets a clear tonight.

VOTE: Inferno

@Everyone:

If Inferno flips scum, this is the plan:

Austerity will jail Gamma
Gamma will jail Austerity
Bingle will jail Slime
Azorius will jail Bingle
Slime will jail Austerity

Do

not

deviate from it, no matter how much you want to.

[Austerity]

Nope
VOTE: Gamma

N1 Gamma N2 Bingle N3 Slime.

[Austerity]

I would be very impressed if that was a bus so I'll jail Bingle again tonight.

[Austerity]

Notice how Gamma immediately assumes that he stopped Slime from making the kill rather than stopping Slime from being the kill.

He probably expected Slime to be JK and was trying to preempt a CC.

[Austerity]

Anyone who thought Slime was JK would kill them.

[Austerity]

The target does matter because the target also needs to not be jailed.

[Austerity]

Nah, he disappeared right when I started to try to conf myself.

Ngl, I heavily lean aus scum here.

Sorry I was playing Magicka with friends ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Austerity]

Austerity is almost certainly paired with slime if scum. 95%.

Yep this is true, if I were scum with anyone else I would just keep quiet and try to quickhammer.

[Austerity]

Nope. If you are scum, Gamma could still be scum. There's absolutely no risk to faking a guilty on his partner from Gamma's PoV, because it's always going to come back to the 1v1 with Austerity today.

That's not true. He didn't know I was the JK, clearly, or he would have fake guiltied me. It's possible, and probable, that he thought Slime was the JK.

[Austerity]

Well, the "no risk" line is what's not true. Slime/Gamma is still possible but they would have had to plan out that bus from even before the day started.

[Austerity]

Always coming back to the 1v1 means always coming back to the 1v1 with the actual jk, not you as a player, in the case that gamma is scum. He doesn’t have to know who they are to be able to pick the 1v1 with them, he just has to claim.

Okay, I see what you mean. Yes, there's no RISK in faking a guilty on your partner. But there is a BENEFIT in faking a guilty on a townie, which is that if you hit the JK their claim suddenly becomes really suspicious.

[Austerity]

If I was scum here and was the attempted killer I think I would have assumed it was you, iirc you hardlined a JK on me and were like the only to do so

No, because your kill target would have been Slime and so the JK could have been anyone who would be likely to jail Slime.

[Austerity]

Also, for the record, I'm not a newbie, and I certainly wouldn't mess up the mechanical play here. I can only be scum with Slime.

[Austerity]

It’s fascinating to me that you seem to be towncasing someone who is confscum fypov.

Confscum how? Nobody hammertested while they were voting me.

[Austerity]

Gamma is confscum fypov, is he not?

...yes? I'm not towncasing Gamma, though?

[Austerity]

I was arguing that Gamma/Slime was unlikely, which means I think Slime is likely town.

[Austerity]

Then who is scum?
Jingle or Senate?

It doesn't matter. The right move is to lynch Gamma today, regardless.

[Austerity]

I can't tell what you're getting at, Jingle. Where was the slip?

[Austerity]

Sure, we lynch in the jk claims. That is true. Slime scumclaimed a page ago though.

...that was obviously a joke no?

[Austerity]

But it’s interesting that you are trying to case gamma as not partners with someone who jokingly or not scumclaimed in lylo, and I want to know why you’re doing so.

Because the likelihood that Slime made a stupid joke that didn't come off as a joke is much higher than the likelihood that Gamma decided to 1v1 his partner, knowing that he would ALSO be 1v1ing someone else and if he was lynched that would probably be game over.

Besides, slips like that are never ever real and they're never ever done for WIFOM. They're always jokes. I'm quite honestly confused that anyone took it seriously.

[Austerity]

[Austerity]

The big one, though:

I'm normally not one to believe in slips, but this one seems pretty compelling, since I don't really see a reason why someone would make an error like that as town.

Besides, slips like that are never ever real and they're never ever done for WIFOM. They're always jokes. I'm quite honestly confused that anyone took it seriously.

AS, thoughts?

Do you misunderstand what the second quote means? By "slips like that" I meant "slips where someone seemingly posted in the wrong topic" not "slips, such as this one."

The two situations are totally different. Inferno's error was much closer to what an actual scumslip would look like.

[Austerity]

What points? That I believed one slip and didn't believe a different one?

[Austerity]

What do you want to talk about?

[Austerity]

My case on Gamma's very straightforward.

Imagine Gamma's town, and you're in his position coming into the day. You've just jailed Slime, and there was no kill. So either... (a) Slime is scum and attempted the kill, or (b) Slime is town and was the target of the kill. Remember that scum could kill anyone, no matter how scummy, as long as they weren't jailed, meaning that they would always attempt to kill the jailkeeper no matter how scummy they were. Why would Gamma, as town, assume that Slime was not the target of the kill? That's a vote that could easily lose him the game if he were town and he didn't even wait to see if he would be CC'd.

Now imagine he's scum, and he thinks Slime is the jailkeeper. He's gonna try to kill Slime, and when that fails, he will try to preempt Slime's claim by pushing Slime before they claim, so that if Slime claims jailkeeper after Gamma's claim, they look terrible. The scum motivation in such a move is pretty evident.

That's why I think Slime is town, too. Because I have the benefit of knowing that Gamma is scum, and I don't understand why he would make a play like that unless Slime were town. I'm not going to say that Slime's play is anything approaching good, but Slime's dumb play is clearly not alignment indicative.

[Austerity]

Talk about your play on days other than today, for starters. Day one, two etc.

I mean, I think it's evident I was lying low to try to avoid drawing scum attention? What specifically are you confused about?

I defended you when you replaced in, too; you probably would have been lynched if not for me.

[Austerity]

Why did you keep Gamma on n1?

Null scum read but also a fairly experienced player. I thought there was a chance I could stop him from making the kill and also a chance he was targeted for the kill if he was town.

[Austerity]

Slime is almost conf!scum in my eyes

Why? Just because they're trolling?

[Austerity]

It's not just that Gamma voted them. It's

why

I think Gamma voted them.

I think Gamma thought he was the JK, because Gamma's move makes the most sense if you try to target the JK with it.

Does that make sense?

[Austerity]

Azorius, I'm leaning Bingle scum, because I townread your early play and his unilateral declaration of lynching Inferno is kinda gross in retrospect.

But I'm not set in that read and I wouldn't bet the game on it.

[Austerity]

AS respond to my last post because I think it should be read by everyone

Ok...? Yeah obviously we lynch in the JK CC's today.

[Austerity]

I was going to say he didn't treat me like a successful JK target at all on D3, but D3 was the day we lynched inferno (and he sheeped me), not the day he wanted to go all in on my lynch.

Yes. That's one of the reasons my read on you switched; I thought it was more likely that I had prevented a kill on you.

[Austerity]

Obviously I'm not sure about that anymore.

[Austerity]

Like, I don't really understand the Slime quickvote from Gamma? Did they ever explain the tactical significance of voting a 50/50 slot from their pov?

To my memory, all he said was "who would kill Slime?" which doesn't make any sense.

[Austerity]

You're not sure I'm town when I made a logic post showing how in any case where I'm scum I've already won and there's a 1v1 and there's an openwolf.

Wait, let me go look at the points where Slime voted me. I thought they quickly unvoted me both times, right?

[Austerity]

So Bingle and Gamma never posted back-to-back while Slime was voting me.

So yeah, Bingle, it's true that you reacted to those votes in a towny way, but I don't think you're

confirmed

.

[Austerity]

The world where Slime collective tried to push a lynch through on Austerity and I could have just, you know, shut the fuck up and let it happen?

I mean, there's no guarantee that Slime would have kept the vote on. If I'd seen it I'd certainly have yelled at them to unvote.

[Austerity]

The problem is like

I have pretty compelling reasons to townread everyone other than Gamma x.x

I believe that if Bingle is town he'll make the correct decision tomorrow though.

[Austerity]

But Gamma showed up four minutes before the unvote, and you weren't here at that point.

[Austerity]

Unless you want to try to convince me that you always check the site at least once every four minutes?

[Austerity]

I think we can all agree that Jingle asking for a vote retraction is mostly NAI

Knowing him, I do think it's something he'd be likely to do as either alignment.

[Austerity]

I don't think any teams are ruled out by lack of a hammer.

[Austerity]

The fact he agrees to this and then immediately starts arguing that the same logic of I would have let town throw the game DOESN'T apply to me seems pretty wonky.

I mean, the difference is that I CC'd Gamma, an action which would by its nature cause Gamma to change his vote. You telling Slime to unvote is somewhat similar, but not the same thing.

[Austerity]

Okay. Take me through your thought processes with who to target. Why jail me, and why assume the slot you were scumreading wasn't the one who made the kill?

Well, the reason to jail you is very simple; you'd be likely to make the kill if scum and likely to be killed if town.

At the start of day 3 I thought Inferno had slipped knowledge of a JK. I believe I said this yesterday, but when I was expecting him to flip scum I thought the way you played around the slip was very unlikely to be a partner.

[Austerity]

The fact that this is actually NAI is what I hate about LYLO, tbh.

Gamma's wincon is now Lynch Austerity.
Austerity's wincon is now Lynch Gamma.

Everything they do is to further that, so everything they post today is pretty meh

I didn't see it this way at the time, but the idea is correct. I still think there's a chance Slime is just terrible town (I've seen townies make plays dumber than that, as have you I'm sure), which I guess if I accept your mod thread argument makes Azorius scum. But regardless, my wincon involves lynching Gamma today and using mechanics to figure everything else out, so Gamma's "analysis" is not really analysis at all.

[Austerity]

you'd be likely to make the kill if scum

Elaborate?

Because most people were not suspecting you, or at least that's the impression I got from your wagon falling apart.

[Austerity]

likely to be killed if town.

I straight up don't believe this, btw. Or rather, I don't believe that town austerity at that point would have believed it, considering he came into D2 talking about how RC kill didn't make sense because RC was scummy based on the EoD and I was THE counterwagon on D2.

Once again. The situations are not the same. RC had just tunneled through a mislynch whereas your wagon was, as far as I remember, not related to that... and your wagon disappeared halfway through the day with everyone but me switching their read on you.

I was under the impression, going into the night, that everyone other than me was townreading you.

[Austerity]

I don't see why Slime would do anything they've done this game, as either alignment, and yet here we are.

[Austerity]

Some people are just really bus-happy and bus even when they don't need to.

I don't remember if Gamma is one of those people.

[Austerity]

I don't see why Slime would do anything they've done this game, as either alignment, and yet here we are.

I just quoted your town read on him???

It has nothing to do with their play, that's for sure. It had to do with how Gamma treated them.

[Austerity]

And I mean, I wasn't ruling out Slime/Gamma there, I just thought it was weird.

But at this point I am feeling like it's a serious possibility.

[Austerity]

I literally feel like I'm just talking past you here. Can you please unvote and actually talk this through with me rather than ignoring my responses to you and dropping shit rationalizations like that?

We have four days, that's more than enough time to change your mind.

[Austerity]

Thank you

What is your hangup here? Do you not see Gamma and Slime being paired?

[Austerity]

I can't speak to associations with Slime but I'm confused that you don't think my play makes sense as JK given it informed pretty much my entire play this game. I played very under-the-radar and non-committal on D1 and D2 to a lesser extent, and I immediately jumped to pressure Inferno for his slip, because I knew there were in fact two goons.

If you think my targets don't make sense, I'm not going to lie, I don't take notes even though I know it would probably make me a better player. There's probably stuff I'm forgetting or misremembering. I know jailing you felt like a really smart idea at the time, but in retrospect I can't really see why that was.

I'm not the type to make cases. They usually are uncompelling anyway, and long posts aren't my strong suit. But I think that Gamma and Slime have been acting weird around each other today. Gamma votes Slime for no reason at the start of the day, and Slime just recently voted Gamma even though they were supposedly townreading him. Gamma's targets make even less sense with his play than mine do, especially when he explicitly said JK should be on ESC N1, and his play has been a lot more opportunistically focused for the entire game whereas I've focused on forming and protecting my townreads which is the polar opposite to how I play as scum (though admittedly you have only my word because lolsecretalt).

[Austerity]

Man, it feels shitty to out an alt for the purposes of gaining an in-game advantage, but I do think if I outed my identity then you'd be able to see this a lot more easily.

[Austerity]

Give me some examples of gamma slime interactions you didn’t like prior to today’s.

Admittedly I'm biased, but after looking through a joined ISO a lot of their interactions are gross.
1123 with a weird and forced question followed by the inexplicable 1126, and 1195 is similarly inexplicable.

1238 is a question almost wholly without point given that Slime was

already on the B&B wagon

when this was posted. And then afterwards when Gamma hammers he immediately starts making excuses in 1312...

And then Slime's progression from 1334 to 1485 makes zero sense, since the reason given for townreading Gamma was a post from way earlier. This is part of the pattern of repeatedly bussing and backing off that continued into today, and pretty much every time one of them has switched their read on the other, there has been no good reason to do so.

Compare that to how Slime has acted toward me. They've shaded me pretty much consistently since they were in the game, and they tried to push through a lynch on me before bussing out of desperation.

Like I said, I'm biased, so I admit that this isn't the only possible way to view these events, but hopefully through my explanation of them you can at least understand my perspective better, because it doesn't really seem like you've been able to do that much thus far.

[Austerity]

Does it? I think it makes more sense as a distancing attempt than it does as actually coming from a town JK.

[Austerity]

Hm. Both JK's claim to have kept me on N2, so I was the NK.

But this also means that whichever JK claim is scum wanted you to know that, otherwise they would have claimed to have targeted someone else. If I were scum who tried to kill you because you scumread me, I could have just claimed a N2 target on someone else.

[Austerity]

I mean, that assumes that Slime is town; if Slime is scum then it's just awkward distancing, which there has been a significant amount of in the last few days (don't forget Slime's instavote on Gamma at the start of D3 followed by a readlist calling Gamma town).

[Austerity]

I mean, if you assume that Gamma and Slime are a team, it's obvious that they've been bussing for a while, especially with Slime -> Gamma on day 3.

Under that lens, it's not at all unrealistic that Gamma would take the chance to distance with their partner, knowing that the vote wouldn't even end up mattering as soon as the CC came.

Pedit: .-.

[Austerity]

To be honest? I still don't get it. Like I see that calling Slime/Gamma scum requires some weird assumptions but the same is true for Slime/me.

[Austerity]

Azorius, how confident are you that I'm town over Gamma?

The only way we win this is if you hammer Gamma before Slime gets back.

If you do, I will jail Slime, obviously.

[Austerity]

GG. Not really a fan of Slime's play on the last day... I understand it was for WIFOM purposes but it made selling a Gamma/Slime team very hard. Nice call on the N3 JK Gamma, I thought you would sooner go for me given what you'd said on D3.