Mini 2084: Pokemon Ruby Mafia - Game Over

[Menalque]

Detective Pika is scum and so is gamma calling it now

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VOTE: gamma

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Everyone sheep me let’s get this lynch through

We’re saving Pika for tomorrow bc of flavour

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I’ve played with Cinn before and there’s no way that slot is town lol

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DP is scum bc he said that Cinn siteflaked which is a lie and we’re lynching all liars if you didn’t get the memo

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Are you boiiiis even reading my posts good lord

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Haha ragequitters

lmao RC voting a pole

lazy

Cinna is siteflaking

what is a 'pole'?

Lies from a lying scum that needs to be lynched

Although I can live with him going to lylo tbh bc flavour

[Menalque]

That's a pretty bad entrance?

Also I spoke to cinnamon unrelated to this game and he had a family member in the hospital; you're kind of pushy about this Cinnamon didn't siteflake thing.

But he didn’t though? Didn’t know about the family in hospital thing and I’m sorry to hear it but doesn’t change the fact that he didn’t

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Does meta on you exist?

I'm not asking for you to give any or link games, I'm phone posting. If meta on you exists I'll deal with you very differently here.

I have my first completed game on forum as VT

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How will you deal with me differently?

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Oh, well fair play but I should warn you that my posting style is completely different now compared to then due to games I can’t talk about

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viewtopic.php?f=50&t=79718

This is it, I get killed N1 so there’s not that much there

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I’ve played with Cinn before and there’s no way that slot is town lol

Where did I say “Cinn never does C as town”? I’m saying that I think Cinn was playing completely out of character here from what I know of him, and I’ve read some of his meta and think it seems off for that too

The whole family thing does throw me off a bit, but I also think it makes total sense for Gamma to come in and try to be as obv town as possible as the cinn!slot was getting somewhat scumread when he entered the game

[Menalque]

Also I think you’re mixing up “confident” with “manic because I’m hella jetlagged and haven’t slept properly for two nights”

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I’ve played with Cinn before and there’s no way that slot is town lol

No way this slot is town is strong phrasing. Sorry I mixed up the strong phrasing with another strong phrasing.

Also ... if scum can just choose to obvtown why don't they always choose to obvtown and never lose?

Because they vary in how good they are at it and PR mechanics/analyses of who voted where can still catch them out even if they’re good at seeming obvtown

Yeah, I am going to sleep soon but part of the reason I’m up here and posting is because I can’t sleep

[Menalque]

Can you expand on how cinnamon was playing out of character?

Yes but you’re gonna have to wait for me to have a laptop tomorrow

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There is someone in this game who can vouch for me being good at detecting scum town!faking after pressure versus genuine town

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I will leave it to them to do that if they’re town here

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Yeah I don’t think any more back and forth rn will be productive so I’ll case Cinn properly tomorrow time permitting and why I wasn’t sufficiently persuaded by Gamma to not think that’s the most likely scum so far

Night

[Menalque]

lol nice try at pre-emptively discrediting me because you know that when I make my case for Cinn!scum it’s gonna look bad for you

@EP I don’t see how pointing out that my top scumread is scum and promising to bring a case to back that up is scummy but w/e

I don’t really have a normal playstyle but sometimes I’ll be more spamposty and energetic sometimes less so. When I’m on my phone I’m more likely to be writing shorter posts and just giving my opinion

On my laptop is when I do casing and looking at ISOs so those are normally a bit more considered

[Menalque]

Detective Pika is scum and so is gamma calling it now

Oh, it's a gimmick alt.

Is gimmick a player or are you suggesting this is an alt account that’s also a gimmick? Both are wrong fyi

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You’re aware that doesn’t answer the question right

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I mean it was never necessary but that doesn’t mean that I don’t wanna know the answer

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Also I haven’t forgotten that I still owe the thread a case on cinn but I’m still on mobile and I refuse to do that until I can sit down with my laptop

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Grand ty

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Reads for now

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Redpanda
Tim
EP
Pine
Creature
Firebringer
Klick
Ofhrz

Pink
Chemist
DP
Gamma

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Oh FYI I just won a game where I called scum v early on where the slot was being broadly TR’d and cinn was in that game and I TR’d him against multiple people thinking he was scum and I was right

Making me 2/2 on cinn reads so far even against pressure

Then D2 I called the second scum slot in my first post

So maybe I’ve been coming on a lil strong but then again when your reads are this good why wouldn’t you

[Menalque]

I think Tim v fire is TvT

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That or scum theatre but that seems p unlikely

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I think you’ve both played with each other too much and you’re scumming for meta reasons but that if you seriously look then you’ll see there’s nothing that scummy in either of you

Also the back and forth doesn’t seem v productive at this point

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And if you keep going it’s just gonna eat up space and time and you’ll end up so disproportionately focused on each other that even if one of you does push a lynch through then the associatives will be worthless

[Menalque]

Im actually back in Southampton I’m now I just haven’t updated

Rly bad tho

I never drove but the standard was bad and I often felt like people were actively tryna kill me when I was on my bike

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Okay maybe tryna kill me is an exaggeration but definitely my life was not v important to them

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i didn't ask who gave the order because it had nothing to do with business.

I don’t know what u mean

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Yeah I know, I was happy to see you in this game! If you could do some v towny things so I can take you out of my lynch pool that would be great

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VOTE: gamma

Still p sure you’re scum and the fact that you hopped on before the self vote from FB only makes me think it harder

[Menalque]

VOTE: gamma

Still p sure you’re scum and the fact that you hopped on before the self vote from FB only makes me think it harder

When someone is muddying the water that much do you think it's a good idea to keep them around? FB wasn't contributing in any way and would have been a detriment to the game imo had he continued to post the way he did.

I think he was obv!town up until the self vote which I admit did throw me a bit

But other than that he was just shit posting in a way that wasn’t doing that much, it wasn’t until Tim started tunnelling him that it hurt the gamestate at all

[Menalque]

Creature, I trust u to lead the push on Tim. U are the new Firebrander

Lol, this didn't age very well. RIP Tim.

It'll be worth looking at who Tim's top scumreads were. While he was likely targeted bcz he was being widely townread, it could also be that the maf team was feeling the pressure from him.

Oh hey, it’s me, ya boi

Can’t remember who else he was scumming off the top of my head

[Menalque]

Gamma Emerald Cinnamon
RedPanda
EspressoPatronum
Chemist1422
Klick
Tim Goodman



Menalque u r a person 2
Firebringer Lil Uzi Vert, Dr worm
Detective Pikachu
Creature
Pink Ball
ofrhz ceejayvinoya
Pine ClearlyClarity

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Which is funny bc apart from being way off base on me and FB I could conceivably see it being DP and creature w/ gamma

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2 on 1 off seems esp plausible on a weak D1 wagon

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Pink why is DP scummier than you?

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Day ended early, it’s coming

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Pink why is DP scummier than you?

DP is scummier than me?

strong argument, I'm sold

[Menalque]

what I meant is that I find you and DP scummy for different reasons and I wanted you to tell me why he's scummier than you considering that

[Menalque]

I like creature and Tim rn.

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

I'm cool with this right now.

weird that Cinnamon is being this vague out of RVS, and couching both of these with "right now"s as mentioned by someone else

Choo choo

Don’t you mean...

Pika-choo choo?

this is also out of character -- I don't think I've seen Cinn fluffpost or make jokes outside of RVS at all. he's normally much more focused and serious throughout. I think this is him trying to be lighthearted in order to show how towny he is only it doesn't work

Tim, on the other hand then do you have any townreads?

looking for reads from someone who was coming off as super towny rather than trying to actively solve himself, again, this doesn't fit with prior play

Can you share why/how you got to your scumread of me? As it stands, it looks like it's either a bandwagon read or an OMGUS.

Honestly? You're right. Sorry. I signed up for too many games and I've always been more miserable in games outside of Newbie queue. I hate being in the dark about reads. Your posting has actually been p towny and I OMGUS'd out of annoyance.

Thanks for the honesty. If you find the time over the next few days, can you drop a quick post on people who feel the most scummy? We can @ you with specifics from there.

UNVOTE:

Got my sights set on URAP and Cinnamon now. Hoping to see more content from them tomorrow.

I'm not really sure what more content you want to see right now. It's kind of weird that you say that when I've posted my reads and you haven't interacted with them at all.

Cinn normally pushes back super hard against anyone scumreading him as town. the fact that his response is so tempered here makes me think this is him drawing scum and not wanting to pull attention, especially as last game together he got widely scumread and only narrowly avoided being mislynched (in no small part because I correctly TR him for this behaviour and pushed back against those gunning for his lynch super hard)

Tim or anybody else townreading Ep rn could you explain your EP townread?

again, soliciting information rather than building cases

Cinn does ask questions a lot as town but the fact that he seemed like he was just focusing on Tim defo could have been a pocket attempt from where I'm sitting

it also just seems more forced than his more freeball questions in the games I've played with him, making me think he's trying to copy his town play but it doesn't come across as genuine

By engage, I mean something I can respond to, whether that's a question or a discussion point. You responded to my post sure but there's not much in that post that I felt was worth responding to and then you post that you want to hear more from me. That's the vague 'pushing for lurking' sentiment that I felt.

Instead of a 'I want to hear more' I feel like town is more inclined to have questions to ask about my position so far or what I've said

this is just more of him being way softer on someone scumming him (EP) compared to what's normal behaviour for town!Cinn

[Menalque]

I like creature and Tim rn.

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

I'm cool with this right now.

weird that Cinnamon is being this vague out of RVS, and couching both of these with "right now"s as mentioned by someone else

Choo choo

Don’t you mean...

Pika-choo choo?

this is also out of character -- I don't think I've seen Cinn fluffpost or make jokes outside of RVS at all. he's normally much more focused and serious throughout. I think this is him trying to be lighthearted in order to show how towny he is only it doesn't work

Tim, on the other hand then do you have any townreads?

looking for reads from someone who was coming off as super towny rather than trying to actively solve himself, again, this doesn't fit with prior play

Can you share why/how you got to your scumread of me? As it stands, it looks like it's either a bandwagon read or an OMGUS.

Honestly? You're right. Sorry. I signed up for too many games and I've always been more miserable in games outside of Newbie queue. I hate being in the dark about reads. Your posting has actually been p towny and I OMGUS'd out of annoyance.

Thanks for the honesty. If you find the time over the next few days, can you drop a quick post on people who feel the most scummy? We can @ you with specifics from there.

UNVOTE:

Got my sights set on URAP and Cinnamon now. Hoping to see more content from them tomorrow.

I'm not really sure what more content you want to see right now. It's kind of weird that you say that when I've posted my reads and you haven't interacted with them at all.

Cinn normally pushes back super hard against anyone scumreading him as town. the fact that his response is so tempered here makes me think this is him drawing scum and not wanting to pull attention, especially as last game together he got widely scumread and only narrowly avoided being mislynched (in no small part because I correctly TR him for this behaviour and pushed back against those gunning for his lynch super hard)

Tim or anybody else townreading Ep rn could you explain your EP townread?

again, soliciting information rather than building cases

Cinn does ask questions a lot as town but the fact that he seemed like he was just focusing on Tim defo could have been a pocket attempt from where I'm sitting

it also just seems more forced than his more freeball questions in the games I've played with him, making me think he's trying to copy his town play but it doesn't come across as genuine

By engage, I mean something I can respond to, whether that's a question or a discussion point. You responded to my post sure but there's not much in that post that I felt was worth responding to and then you post that you want to hear more from me. That's the vague 'pushing for lurking' sentiment that I felt.

Instead of a 'I want to hear more' I feel like town is more inclined to have questions to ask about my position so far or what I've said

this is just more of him being way softer on someone scumming him (EP) compared to what's normal behaviour for town!Cinn

[Menalque]

Read like the first 4 pages and have some opinions already

this feels like it's a v plausible fake after reading through everything, seeing pressure on his slot, and then posting this to talk about how he wasn't trying to obv!town bc he didn't know his slot was being pressured

also can't remember the numbers but wasn't Cinn pressure starting around p4? need to check that

I played pokemon red when it came out. it was okay

haven't touched the stuff since

but making animals fight each other is cruel. did you know that millennials who consider themselves pokemon fans are less likely to think dog fighting is wrong than those who don't? yeah, that's some messed up stuff, huh?

If you don't like the games and are going to bash others for liking them like this, get the fuck out now. I'm not gonna tolerate this at all. Also, where is your evidence for the dog fighting claim?

this felt v aggressive unneccesarily and like setting up a reason to go after urap!slot (aka me) later which did then happen, but he can talk it off by lacing it as being about Pokemon (as we see later)

Interested to hear some thoughts from the following people:

u r a person 2
Lil Uzi Vert
Cinnamon
ClearlyClarity

Lurker scum can be pretty dangerous. These four haven't posted much yet.

At this point feeling Espresso is town. Liking their instincts.

I think espresso seems scummy early game but is just mislynch bait -- to actually read him as town (or as town without mentioning that the reason for it is that he seems super mislynch-y) is weird and pocketing

Choo choo

Don’t you mean...

Pika-choo choo?

Pikachu is town and I’m not seeing any non-RVS reasoning for his wagon tbh

Call me back when something cool happens.

This isn't good imo

think this is him seeing that CC is a good potential slot that also replaced out and deciding that pushing there will make him look town

also CC is an easy push because she hasn't done anything towny but equally hasn't done anything scummy, so it's a great way to look like he's productive while not focusing on any of the important players and whether or not they're town

{TG, CC, EP} is a good starting ground

What about CC's posting was town?

more of this

Call me back when something cool happens.

Kk, so you have DP as town. Any scumreads?

You made your vote in Klick in RVS. Do you still agree with your vote? Why/why not?

By "something cool" I don't mean "interrogate me because I'm on your arbitrary lurker prodlist" but w/e.

You're my biggest scumread rn. Klick is like... muddled. 105 was kinda bad but they actually try to scumhunt, even if misguided or reaction-testy.

My problem with CC is that they were kinda coasting by and were acting like they weren't the reason the game is slow.

and more of going after CC for just slow playing, I don't think she ever made claims that the game being slow wasn't to do with her, so this is misrepping

dang

i feel like both CC and EP are pretty hard town after that last interaction

like i guess CC might just be playing super well but i think i'm pretty happy clearing them both.

I can actually understand this given the previous post by CC

backing off it but he's created some susp on that slot to come back to if his other desired push (urap!slot aka me) doesn't come off

cinnamon and cc are scum. Will post in sometime.

Now that I've come around on CC I don't like this post, feels like targeting LHF lurkers

RP is correctly SRing Cinn so there's a pushback here in the same way that he'll do to me when I correctly SR Cinn on my entrance

I was waiting for both cinnamon and clearity reactions to my post to vote for the scummier one but since clearity is ignoring this game, I'm forced to choose.

I don't like that cinnamon ignored my post. Seems like cinnamon is scared of a back and forth that might happen.

Vote cinnamon

Still wanna hold to this push now that they've replaced out?

this is a weird way to try and deflect pressure

I'm trying to learn everyone's name before pushing anyone

...ok. How is this coming?

VOTE: Pink Ball
Their last post doesn't mesh with their activity level or what I feel like their personality is

I think the last two are distancing probs

That's a pretty bad entrance?

Also I spoke to cinnamon unrelated to this game and he had a family member in the hospital; you're kind of pushy about this Cinnamon didn't siteflake thing.

But he didn’t though? Didn’t know about the family in hospital thing and I’m sorry to hear it but doesn’t change the fact that he didn’t

Yeah you're coming off as irl scum so really back this the fuck up

hyper aggressive overreaction

clearly my arguments on Cinn aren't being accepted at this point and I wasn't getting much traction

why freak out like this? bc gamma is scum and he knows I've got him, and probs pissed off that it isn't even bc of his play but bc of the play from Cinn beforehand

I’ve played with Cinn before and there’s no way that slot is town lol

Where did I say “Cinn never does C as town”? I’m saying that I think Cinn was playing completely out of character here from what I know of him, and I’ve read some of his meta and think it seems off for that too

The whole family thing does throw me off a bit, but I also think it makes total sense for Gamma to come in and try to be as obv town as possible as the cinn!slot was getting somewhat scumread when he entered the game

I wasn't trying to obvtown I was trying to revive a game I perceived as stalled

the lack of contribution (just vaguely hitting at my slot, painting CC as potential scum which was easy) means this doesn't hold up

I’ve played with Cinn before and there’s no way that slot is town lol

Where did I say “Cinn never does C as town”? I’m saying that I think Cinn was playing completely out of character here from what I know of him, and I’ve read some of his meta and think it seems off for that too

The whole family thing does throw me off a bit, but I also think it makes total sense for Gamma to come in and try to be as obv town as possible as the cinn!slot was getting somewhat scumread when he entered the game

So Cinnamon playing out of character is enough to call him obvscum, but you say to not judge you off your own obvtown game you had? Not buying it.
VOTE: Menalque

I now have two town games although admittedly I couldn't talk about it at the time -- but could easily have looked at my user and read a bit of that game where I was also p obv town based on flips by this point and my play in that game is much more similar to here

There is someone in this game who can vouch for me being good at detecting scum town!faking after pressure versus genuine town

Also I noted I read only the first few pages as soon as I entered so what makes you think I felt I was under pressure?

easy, I think you're lying about only reading the first few pages as you entered

K

zzzz

Yaaaaay

LOLOLOLOL

TIM IS RC.

So does this reinforce you opinion about Tim?

i don't know what it makes me think

Ok

contributing nothing but looking active

I caught scum last game for this same behaviour

Hey look at that, everyone's scumreading me, that means even my partners agree I should be wagoned

This feels so trite

think this light interaction is distancing

note that gamma never votes pink

I feel like historically I've been a shit ton of games where I was the only one who scumread someone playing hyper aggressively and I usually ended up being right
I think that -oh that confidence is towny- isn't good logic here. scum would need to do something big with this entrance with how tight the PoE pool already is. this is a situation to make a push like that.

why not apply this to gamma?

I wasn't hyper aggressive though, just hyper active
Did you see me go for someone's neck out of the gate?

yeah I saw you be hyper aggro on urap

then go in on the CC slot

even if your phrasing was calmer the intention was there

That was essentially gatekeeping

convenient excuse when pressed

less convincing given how you jumped on me which is the same slot

I could see that
Anything else? About yourself or anyone else

Could you expand?

asking Qs but not really advancing the game in a solve-y way

Be more specific

I want know what is informing some of your reads rn, I'll say Creature Tim and Espresso for now

I started calling people attention and wanted to analyze whoever called me scum at the begining of the game, then see what their intentions could be. People who didn't call me scum at the begining didn't deserve analysis.

Creature because of the way he started posting. There was no need for his classic bullet posting shenanigans at the begining of the game but he did it anyways so I think he wasn't trying to look town but instead just being town.

Tim because when he's scum he waits for me to call him scum before calling me scum 'cause he knows that's the best way to disengage with me 'cause I don't like being called scum when I'm town. He scumread me before I said my read on him so he genuinely thinks I'm scum and there's no agenda behind. He knows I'm not an easy mislynch so he would've tried to push a wagon on me already instead of leaving me for later.

Espresso I can't recall but I think it was solely because he called me scum at the right time.

That's why LUV is scum too by the way, he townread me for my tone when there was starting to be some consensus on me being scum. That kind of "hot takes" without explanation are just to look good in case I get lynched.

That works, I don't feel like lynching PB at this point because this is pretty good and I want yo give him a chance to contribute later

so -- distancing. he's talking about how PB is scummy but shouldn't be lynched while also never putting a vote there or seriously pushing it

we all see how this is distancing yeah?

how r we doing distancing from each other? do u think they believe it?

woops wrong thread.

zzzz
VOTE: Firebringer

hops on the FB wagon at a convenient time to make sure the mislynch goes through

also why not more concern that PB -- who you were scumming -- was on that wagon

Did Menalque post that case at all, if not at this point he should probably be lynched

yeah being lazy is a good reason to lynch someone, sure

[Menalque]

sorry, probs should have spoilered that

there you go EP

[Menalque]

new readslist

DP
RP
EP
pine
ofhrz
klick
chemist

creature
pink
gamma

[Menalque]

I don't think Cinn is normally lurky, he's pretty actively participating but I think that the outside circumstances could have been interfering with that so it's hard to call one way or the other

I think that sort of fits with his normal behaviour, but like I say, I think normally he'd be much more aggressive about his response

so how measured he was is telling when compared to his normal meta

[Menalque]

I think that's Cinn knowing that he responds to people scumming him by scumming them and trying to play in line with his meta, but also knowing that coming on strong gets him scumread

normally, I don't think he'd worry too much about the being scumread thing because he's got out of it in both cases and he'd know that if town!cinn was lynched for it it would still help town based on the flip

whereas I think scum!cinn worries more and decides to moderate his tone

[Menalque]

I can get behind a pink lynch but I think it makes more sense to do gamma first

I think if gamma!scum it's v likely that pink!scum

I think if pink!scum it's harder to draw conclusions about gamma!scum

why do you prefer pink?

[Menalque]

If it’s not pinging you that creature’s response to my case on gamma was to hard defend him and come after me instead (justifying it w tim’s reads) it should be

Also if we’re taking tim’s reads seriously (we shouldn’t, or at least not as gospel bc he’s been wrong on minimum three) then that would also implicate creature

[Menalque]

DP talk to me about why I should TR creature bc I have no idea why you’re TRing him hard enough to fake mason him

[Menalque]

Also yeah, my bad on the not voting PB thing

If you think that’s scum!indicative tho then lmao

No way scum!me outright lies in a wallpost about something that obvious to disprove, esp not when scum are already gunning for my lynch

[Menalque]

Tbf I’m not sure it’s that bad for town if I get lynched today, so long as the next two days are (gamma, creature) in that order

[Menalque]

I’m not saying lynch me

I’m still saying lynch gamma

[Menalque]

If it’s not pinging you that creature’s response to my case on gamma was to hard defend him and come after me instead (justifying it w tim’s reads) it should be

Also if we’re taking tim’s reads seriously (we shouldn’t, or at least not as gospel bc he’s been wrong on minimum three) then that would also implicate creature

I'm townreading creature. I think he was obv town day1 and when creature pushed for tims reads, I was scumreading him but he brought it back last night. I can spoiler post the creature posts which I found towny but again you might not be convinced but my reads have been better than yours.

I mean yeah that would be useful bc I’m really not seeing how creature is anything but scum based on how he felt the need to try that hard to defend gamma/deflect the wagon

[Menalque]

Huh getting paranoid about RedPanda

Tbh I think RP is a fine vote, I've suspected him consistently, he's felt rather slimy recently, and iirc he was one of RC's scumreads
VOTE: RedPanda

Why isn't he voting Menalque here?

The RP vote just looks like he's going out of his way to not OMGUS vote Menalque. Gamma's preceding posts laid out the groundwork for a plausible Menalque vote (eg. mention of faulty logic and lies), but he doesn't follow through with it.

Because I was convinced RP (and now Klick) was scum. Wasn't feeling that way about Menalque, however the refusal to answer to my call out of the lie doesn't look good.

Loooooooooooool, “my refusal to answer your call out of the lie”

Holmes, your vote for PB is literally IN MY WALL

Thinking that I would ever intentionally lie when the counter evidence is IN THE SAME POST would make me a fucking idiot


Ipso facto unless you think I’m a fucking idiot there’s literally no reason to consider that anything other than a mistake

[Menalque]

That's a pretty bad entrance?

Also I spoke to cinnamon unrelated to this game and he had a family member in the hospital; you're kind of pushy about this Cinnamon didn't siteflake thing.

But he didn’t though? Didn’t know about the family in hospital thing and I’m sorry to hear it but doesn’t change the fact that he didn’t

Yeah you're coming off as irl scum so really back this the fuck up

I’ve played with Cinn before and there’s no way that slot is town lol

Where did I say “Cinn never does C as town”? I’m saying that I think Cinn was playing completely out of character here from what I know of him, and I’ve read some of his meta and think it seems off for that too

The whole family thing does throw me off a bit, but I also think it makes total sense for Gamma to come in and try to be as obv town as possible as the cinn!slot was getting somewhat scumread when he entered the game

So Cinnamon playing out of character is enough to call him obvscum, but you say to not judge you off your own obvtown game you had? Not buying it.
VOTE: Menalque

Did Menalque post that case at all, if not at this point he should probably be lynched

Also I just realized Mena flat out lied in his wall about me

Also yeah, my bad on the not voting PB thing

If you think that’s scum!indicative tho then lmao

No way scum!me outright lies in a wallpost about something that obvious to disprove, esp not when scum are already gunning for my lynch

Oh I missed this

As evidenced by me not having my vote on you, I didn't regard it as a reason to lockscum you

because I'd already concluded it was also very possible you were tunneled town. However the last line of the quoted post has me confused as to your mindset, as you are arguing scum are pushing scum!you in that scenario.

Looks like you had me pretty much lock!scum here I’m coming from

[Menalque]

Also yeah, my bad on the not voting PB thing

If you think that’s scum!indicative tho then lmao

No way scum!me outright lies in a wallpost about something that obvious to disprove, esp not when scum are already gunning for my lynch

Oh I missed this
As evidenced by me not having my vote on you, I didn't regard it as a reason to lockscum you because I'd already concluded it was also very possible you were tunneled town. However the last line of the quoted post has me confused as to your mindset, as you are arguing scum are pushing scum!you in that scenario.

Yeah, now I think about this it doesn’t make sense

The basic thought was that it makes no sense for scum!me to lie because you’re already gunning for my lynch and that would give you something else to push on

And as I think you’re scum it would be bad for me to give you more ammo

But obv it doesn’t make sense that we’re scum together

So it makes no sense for scum!me to do it because in a world where you’re town it makes me more likely to be lynched, and it makes no sense for town!me to do it bc why would I?

So either way it’s NAI

[Menalque]

I don’t think menalque is just making up meta. A couple of cinnamons posts do seem like busywork. Cinnamon asking Tim for his townreads is a pretty general/vague question whereas cinn seems to only have asked questions about a specific player in his completed town games.

As in, I don’t see why you think “he started with a conclusion and found reasoning afterwards” in his cinn case. Can you explain that klick?

I don't think Menalque's reasoning is entirely fabricated, but I think the many things he quoted in evidence against CinnaGamma aren't the reasons he's pushing the slot. He replaced in and immediately scumread Cinnamon, and I doubt he had all those reasons in mind when he started scumreading him. Basically he seems to have confirmation bias, except he shouldn't have confirmation by any means.

I read the game before I read my role pm and cinn pinged me hard

So I may not have had the exact clarity on the ways in which he was pinging me when I did that intial readthrough but I think everything that I included in my case and elaborated on was the stuff pinging me

Also there was some stuff I couldn’t talk about when I joined bc ongoing games

[Menalque]

mod, I need V/LA until at least the 21st probably 26t

@rest I’ll still be around just won’t be posting as much and probably no walls until I’m back

[Menalque]

I've noticed that I've not posted for almost 2 days but I don't have anything new to say either. Are we all waiting for something?

Pine’s catch up I think

Then we’re lynching between me and gamma

[Menalque]

Thanks for the post red, but I still don’t really see why creature is town here?

DP can you talk me through why you’re so confident that creature is town that you’re fake masoning him?

[Menalque]

Here’s where I’m at:

I still really don’t like creature!town that everyone is reading. The fact he’s calling my read on him straight OMGUS when I’ve made it p clear that it was much more the way he defended gamma during my push and tried to redirect onto me. I would’ve read that as scummy regardless for how hard he was defending someone by attacking the person attacking them.

I think gamma has been townie recently but I still want him lynched. In the game with luv i found him v scummy then weakened the read as the day went on and he got townier. Nearly talked myself out of it but stuck it because I figure that if someone knows they’re being SR then they can change their behaviour to what they think will be seen as towny, so the early stuff should be considered more AI can later day stuff. I was right last time on that logic, so I’m sticking to it, esp bc I think gamma/creature makes a lot of sense.

If I’m right there, then I think the third scum will prob be discoverable from their interactions with those two slots.

[Menalque]

Idk exactly where I’m at on DP. Thought he seemed scummy D1 but the neighbourised thing from Tim sounded like him and seemed too fast to be faked? As he could only have started working on it after the flip.

Think EP is prob mislynch bait, don’t like that gamma is pushing there either

[Menalque]

P sure gamma is at

L-1

btw

[Menalque]

I don’t wanna compromise on gamma for today. I don’t really think chem/ofhrz helps towards a solve at this point, but I think gamma does.

I don’t love that RP has changed his vote off and gone to “reread the game” based on what I thought was some not particularly deep interaction with klick, where klick wasn’t even particularly eating his game solve ability. I still think he’s p town but if gamma flips scum then that pings me.

Although if gamma flips town then I guess I’d be looking at the RP ISO anyway

[Menalque]

Oh, I missed that that was the reason, makes more sense now

[Menalque]

I don’t wanna compromise on gamma for today. I don’t really think chem/ofhrz helps towards a solve at this point, but I think gamma does.

Consider these two hypotheticals:

1. Both Chemist and ofhrz are scum. Wouldn't lynching one of them almost certainly help towards a 'solve'?
2. You and Gamma are town. How many times out of 10 do you think this town decides not to lynch you before endgame?

I think it's less important to vote for someone whose hypothetical flip will most optimally position town to 'solve' the game, and more important to vote scum.

1. Yes, if they’re both scum then lynching one prob does help somewhat. The prob is that I don’t think it helps guide us through and I’m not seeing them both as scum, so I don’t think lynching one today at least is likely to lead to lynching the other tomorrow. I’m not sure where everyone else is on the slots though and right now i cba to go back through and search.

2. Like 7-8 probs? I think this town seems p competent and I don’t think competent town lynches me before endgame.

But the key point is that I think gamma is v likely scum. I think that lynching him and a red flip means that you’ll start taking my creature scum read seriously, and from there I think we prob win after lynching creature post-gamma. If we lynch him and there’s a green flip then I’ve prob been going the wrong way and we go somewhere else (like chem & ofhrz).

Also idk why you’re putting solve in quotes?

[Menalque]

I’m pretty much the same as RP, I don’t see any world where I’d want creature lynched before gamma

[Menalque]

menalque What do you think about my 1601?

Tbh I don’t see anything v alignment indicative in it and I’m not sure what you’re getting at — that it seems forced that gamma just missed the alt slip? Could be right but I don’t know if it feels that way just as conf bias bc I already SR him

[Menalque]

I really don’t like how hard the push has been to divert away from gamma towards ofhrz/chemist (clearly increasingly ofhrz)

I’ve kinda been unsure about PB for a while but I think that this could be scum derailing

But then it seems excessively blatant esp if the partners are gamma + creature

[Menalque]

I still want the gamma lynch but I would compromise onto PB I think

If PB flipped scum then I think gamma and creature are like 90% the scum team

I think if gamma flips scum then creature is solidly 95% scum but it leaves me a lot less sure about PB

[Menalque]

Wow, rude

I still <3 u PB, just think you could v probs be scum here

[Menalque]

@RP I kinda get where you’re coming from a bit more now

I’ll mull it over

[Menalque]

Here’s where I’m at:

I still really don’t like creature!town that everyone is reading. The fact he’s calling my read on him straight OMGUS when I’ve made it p clear that it was much more the way he defended gamma during my push and tried to redirect onto me. I would’ve read that as scummy regardless for how hard he was defending someone by attacking the person attacking them.

I think gamma has been townie recently but I still want him lynched.

In the game with luv i found him v scummy then weakened the read as the day went on and he got townier. Nearly talked myself out of it but stuck it because I figure that if someone knows they’re being SR then they can change their behaviour to what they think will be seen as towny, so the early stuff should be considered more AI can later day stuff. I was right last time on that logic, so I’m sticking to it, esp bc I think gamma/creature makes a lot of sense.

If I’m right there, then I think the third scum will prob be discoverable from their interactions with those two slots.

I don’t wanna compromise on gamma for today.

I don’t really think chem/ofhrz helps towards a solve at this point, but I think gamma does.

I don’t love that RP has changed his vote off and gone to “reread the game” based on what I thought was some not particularly deep interaction with klick, where klick wasn’t even particularly eating his game solve ability. I still think he’s p town but if gamma flips scum then that pings me.

Although if gamma flips town then I guess I’d be looking at the RP ISO anyway

I don’t wanna compromise on gamma for today. I don’t really think chem/ofhrz helps towards a solve at this point, but I think gamma does.

Consider these two hypotheticals:

1. Both Chemist and ofhrz are scum. Wouldn't lynching one of them almost certainly help towards a 'solve'?
2. You and Gamma are town. How many times out of 10 do you think this town decides not to lynch you before endgame?

I think it's less important to vote for someone whose hypothetical flip will most optimally position town to 'solve' the game, and more important to vote scum.

1. Yes, if they’re both scum then lynching one prob does help somewhat. The prob is that I don’t think it helps guide us through and I’m not seeing them both as scum, so I don’t think lynching one today at least is likely to lead to lynching the other tomorrow. I’m not sure where everyone else is on the slots though and right now i cba to go back through and search.

2. Like 7-8 probs? I think this town seems p competent and I don’t think competent town lynches me before endgame.

But the key point is that I think gamma is v likely scum.

I think that lynching him and a red flip means that you’ll start taking my creature scum read seriously, and from there I think we prob win after lynching creature post-gamma. If we lynch him and there’s a green flip then I’ve prob been going the wrong way and we go somewhere else (like chem & ofhrz).

Also idk why you’re putting solve in quotes?

I’m pretty much the same as RP,

I don’t see any world where I’d want creature lynched before gamma

I

still want the gamma lynch

but I would compromise onto PB I think

If PB flipped scum then I think gamma and creature are like 90% the scum team

I think if gamma flips scum then creature is solidly 95% scum but it leaves me a lot less sure about PB

At this point the Menalque/Gamma 1v1 is basically collapsing, with Gamma disillusioned and

Menalque having doubts

. From my perspective, the biggest reason it's still being pushed is because enough people have this perception that it's good for the gamestate. Not enough people actually have conviction in this being a wagon on scum - and that's really bothering me.

[snip]

where did I have doubts about wanting the gamma lynch? I can have doubts (as in, away from being 99%) without losing my SR or thinking that we're better off lynching anywhere else

[Menalque]

Wait no I can respond to that real quick.

All I said was you had doubts. I didn't say you lost your scumread or that you want to lynch somewhere else. You're not disagreeing with me.

I just felt like your phrasing was kinda manipulative to play down the gamma vs me situation which in turn makes it easier to deflect onto ofhrz.

Idk I still think you’re prob town but that really seemed off to me.

I also don’t like your thing about not enough people having conviction that gamma is scum. I mean, they’re voting him? And RP didn’t seem to me like he’s totally sold on gamma as town from what I remember so I just am not convinced that statement is true

[Menalque]

And I think my lists are pretty clear?

Town to scum, the gap is to make it abundantly clear who I think is actually scum at a given time vs who I’m just less sure on as town

[Menalque]

Talking of, here’s a new list

DP
pine
RP
EP
ofhrz
Chemist
Klick

PB
Creature
Gamma

[Menalque]

I will hit you up on that if/when I get a chance on this holiday

If I don’t it was fundamentally that I just think I know Cinnamon better and can read him better

If I can I’ll try to distill my thinking a bit more

[Menalque]

Also I guess that’s a fair point about the agenda thing

[Menalque]

Yo, for anyone who wants more meta on me, here’s my first scum game that I just won

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=79930

[Menalque]

It’s p late here, I’ll try to get something up tomorrow it may be absent for ~48 hrs starting now

@mod, so you know

[Menalque]

Back

But sleepy

I’m gonna try to read through a bit but may not post tonight necessarily

[Menalque]

Did Gamma claim?

Ugh

The ofrhz wagon is pretty tempting too though

ofrhz also dodged claiming I assume?

Time for ofrhz to claim.

This is objectively anti-town

Shouldn’t be pushing for a claim before L-1

I’m willing to give EP benefit of the doubt because I’m mostly TRing him

But creature definitely knows this and did it anyway

[Menalque]

Aside from that nothing I skimmed through has really changed my reads apart from I think elements is far townier than klick was so I feel more comfortable about PB in my scumpool than I was

Still want gamma, followed by creature, followed by PB, so long as reds keep coming

[Menalque]

I mean PB I still think you’re scum by PoE

[Menalque]

If I’m right on gamma + creature and you are town, where is the third scum?

[Menalque]

Also elements sounded like he was going gamma earlier so definitely no one hammer

Anyone hammers ofhrz and I swear I’ll flip my shit

[Menalque]

I mean PB I don’t want you lynched before two red flips tbh

[Menalque]

I think RP has been pushing gamma too long for him to be scum with gamma, that sort of bussing is way too early for scum imo

[Menalque]

Oh, I forgot RP was on ofhrz

I mean, maybe, still seems unlikely

If I have 2/3 scum then I think I can prob sort the last slot by the time that the time comes tbh

[Menalque]

Oh, ok, sorry for mixing up being scum with being an hypocrite. I want Chemist lynched, period.

I won't mind tbh

He's being completely useless this game

Oh, the irony

[Menalque]

I’m sorry did I miss the memo?

In what fucking world are we not lynching gamma here

VOTE: gamma

[Menalque]

Why the hell are we talking about lynching RP when gamma is still alive?

There’s my whole case which a whole bunch of us were on board with

There’s the fact that PB got nightkilled

There’s the fact that a red flip on gamma strongly implies scum!creature, a slot that I am genuinely baffled by how it can be so full of nothing and yet townread

Like does creature normally do this much absolute fuck all as town?

And gamma also helps us sort RP. I still think that gamma red basically clears RP bc he was pushing hard there so early on

[Menalque]

Literally, someone who wants RP today actually explain to me why

Not only why (yeah there are reasons) but specifically why he makes a better lynch than gamma

[Menalque]

UNVOTE: RP

okay fine

Fuckin thank you, jesus

[Menalque]

Okay, enough easy noise

Like this is the only towny thing I think creature has done in about a RL week

[Menalque]

Literally, someone who wants RP today actually explain to me why

Not only why (yeah there are reasons) but specifically why he makes a better lynch than gamma

[Menalque]

If the speed with which the RP wagon built was concerning, the speed with which it fell apart should be alarming.

People coming to their senses about lynching gamma isn’t susp

[Menalque]

UNVOTE:

Gamma was pretty hard town by the end of D2. Mena, I think you're town but you're stuck tunneling on Gamma.

In what world was gamma hard town at the end of D2!?!?!

[Menalque]

There’s a difference between “acting townier” and “hard town”

[Menalque]

Also hi sky

[Menalque]

Gamma why are you being so passive today?

[Menalque]

Yeah but apparently no one wants to talk to me about why RP is better for scum than gamma so idk how to get the conversation going

[Menalque]

Okay elements, let’s say you’re right

Scum are happy with where it’s headed which would mean gamma!town, prob chemist!town and prob RP!town

[Menalque]

So that leaves DP (conftown) me (conftown from my POV) and you who is prob!town for bringing this up in a world where that theory is right

That gives us creature, pine, and EP scum

[Menalque]

So I guess my issue with that line of thinking is that while I think that’s a possible scum team I don’t think it’s a probable scum team, as two of my TRs are on it

[Menalque]

Because he bleeds Town

Can you stop just asserting this and actually explain it

Creature has done fuck all this game

How is that bleeding town

[Menalque]

So that leaves DP (conftown) me (conftown from my POV) and you who is prob!town for bringing this up in a world where that theory is right

That gives us creature, pine, and EP scum

Yo elements you never responded about this

[Menalque]

Creature’s meta is well-established. He lurks and snipes as scum, is active and takes hard stances as Town. While there is some evidence of this meta evolving in the intervening year or so since I last played with him, I’ve kept an eye out for some details I’d rather not divulge. Some trade secrets need to stay secret.

I do not support a Creature wagon or lynch. RP or Chemist are my preferred for today. I think the third is in {GEmerald, EP} and I’m starting to lean towards EP.

Literally do I have to say this every single game?

There. Is. No. Reason. Why. Meta. Can’t. Evolve. In. This. Game.

It is very simple

Creature has not been doing p much anything

From a strong player (by rep seemingly) that’s antitown play

[Menalque]

@elements I could do that I think

But I still think I’d like gamma first maybe? I’m not sure

Feel like gamma!town would be an easy mislynch in the case of creature!town, and I don’t wanna have to make that decision in lylo

I’d rather go gamma today I think as I think there’s more information there

[Menalque]

VOTE: EP

Can you talk to me about if there’s more behind this than his creature vote

And also about why creature is town

Asking for like the millionth time

[Menalque]

Same question to DP, as he evidently doesn't like my Creature read.

I just wanna lynch anyone that scumreads my townreads at this point tbh

Why? We need to be lynching scum

Just because someone disagrees with you on a read doesn’t make them scum

[Menalque]

I think creature!scum could implicate gamma!scum from the fact that creature was hard defending him D2 by trying to push on me instead

But if elements is right about apathy indicating TvT yesterday and maybe again today then it could also mean gamma!town and pine!scum + you!scum

Whereas I think gamma!scum strongly suggests creature!scum, but the problem is gamma!town means I’ve been way off on my reads

If that’s the case then I think someone might be deepwolfing and it would be enough of a shake up for me to fully rethink my reads and solves

[Menalque]

Basically creature flip does very little to help me sort gamma

Gamma!scum I think means creature scum

Gamma!town means completely reevaluating, which isn’t great but at least I know going into lylo

[Menalque]

@DP as our town clear, we really need you to be a bit more proactive than that.

We're lynching someone on the ofrhz wagon, and probably someone toward the front of the ofrhz wagon. I'm fine with Panda going, or we can do chemist, either way.

Creature and gamma were both on that wagon at 3 and 4

[Menalque]

How many times do I have to ask you why creature is town before you answer me

[Menalque]

@pine lol so I can read him better after 5 mins than you can after years then?

Your meta argument is shit

Just watched town lose a game to scum!me bc they were overly reliant on urap playing within his meta

[Menalque]

Also what scumhunting? Sheeping tim’s reads from D1 still?

It’s a testament to the fact of how little he’s been doing that he’s one of the top posters here (top poster?) yet I feel like he’s done nothing to get any of his scumreads lynched

[Menalque]

Like if your definition of scumhunting is asserting shit then not following up on it then maybe rethink your definition, kid

[Menalque]

Also interesting that your assessment of creature scum is lurks and snipes which is p much what he’s doing here (suddenly appears when suspicion might be coming his way) while dropping out shade as he goes

Yet you’re too blind to see it

Who’s conf biased again?

[Menalque]

Scum would rather none of them being on the wagon > 1-2 of them being on the wagon > all of them being on the wagon.

They only vote if the mislynch don't get achieved otherwise/may get redirected to one of themselves.

This is a pretty town Creature post imo

I have rn RedPanda, Tim Goodman and Espresso town since my catch up

Still have:
RedPanda
Tim Goodman
EspressoPatronoum
Lil Uzi Vert
as town

Chemist is pretty meh rn

we should probably just do chemist today actually

VOTE: chemist

@DP I’m not saying he hasn’t made one or two posts that are town, but is he normally this ineffectual in a game as town?

If not why not?

[Menalque]

Yeah but we're not lynching creature because you dislike his playstyle we're lynching scum or at worst probable scum

Creature's reads as town are some of the strongest on site and as scum he busses heavily so there's no reason to not go with his reads even if you scumread him when we have 0 redflips

I’m not even pushing for a creature lynch atm bc of the logic I explained to EP

[Menalque]

I still wanna know why chem is better than gamma

Yeah, chem!scum is a good flip

But I don’t think chem!town is v useful going into lylo

So I’d rather vote gamma who has I think better odds of being scum (or I think even if you’re not as sold as me the you have to say similar) but whose flip has much more informational quality

[Menalque]

Ellitell?

[Menalque]

I was asking DP the same thing you just asked me EP

Idk about chemist

I think he could be scum by PoE

And that means that if he is it buys me more time to sort

But again, if I am wrong then a town!flip does nothing for me in figuring out where the scum is in lylo

[Menalque]

Where does that come from?

I still don’t know if I like it over gamma

No one hammer, we don’t have deadline pressure

I think imma sleep now cause I was on a night bus but I wanna think about it

I’ll probs intent in the morning if I’m on board

[Menalque]

I can get behind a pink lynch but I think it makes more sense to do gamma first

I think if gamma!scum it's v likely that pink!scum

I think if pink!scum it's harder to draw conclusions about gamma!scum

why do you prefer pink?

Why the hell are we talking about lynching RP when gamma is still alive?

There’s my whole case which a whole bunch of us were on board with

There’s the fact that PB got nightkilled

There’s the fact that a red flip on gamma strongly implies scum!creature, a slot that I am genuinely baffled by how it can be so full of nothing and yet townread

Like does creature normally do this much absolute fuck all as town?

And gamma also helps us sort RP. I still think that gamma red basically clears RP bc he was pushing hard there so early on

What happened here @Menal

Don’t misrep, this is from before the huge gamma/pink blowout

[Menalque]

Also don’t think I like pine ignoring me about creature

[Menalque]

@elements I don’t like locking chemist in as lynch if gamma flips town bc there’s a chance that he’s just playing bad

But in principle that seems pretty good for now

But what happened to your concern that scum are happy with both lunches?

[Menalque]

Why is your meta argument not shit?

What do you consider scumhunting?

How does what creature’s done fit with that?

[Menalque]

Lmao “YoU jUsT DIdN’t uNdeRsTaNd” okay

[Menalque]

Hi I think I'm getting close to a solve

Wanna share

[Menalque]

Go on

[Menalque]

Yo guys

I’m here I’m drunk and it’s time to ducking party

[Menalque]

HOW DO WE SOLVE THIS GAME?

[Menalque]

That should have been bigger tbh

Is anyone online?

[Menalque]

Chemist my man

[Menalque]

Give me a solve chemist

[Menalque]

Gamma no offence but like

Pine creature EP is not a solve

[Menalque]

Also explain EP

[Menalque]

Will you compromise and do gamma?

[Menalque]

Like I saw your post about his reaction to PB and about the chem ellitell

I’m just not persuaded about the activity thing being v indicative on chem

And I also don’t like how gamma’s been so inactive and the solve doesn’t seem great? Like I thought there would be a lot more

[Menalque]

A solve to me would be a reasoned explanation with evidence for why every player is the alignment you think they are

Unless it’s already clear with multiple cases on people that don’t need re-explaining on which case I think it should just include the others

[Menalque]

in which case*

[Menalque]

I could lynch chem

But I want gamma

Partly because I’m lazy and I have ideas on the implications of scum!gamma and town!gamma

I don’t really know what town!chem or scum!chem would mean

Partly because of everything I’ve pointed out about gamma

[Menalque]

If chem gets to L-1 I would hammer tho

[Menalque]

I have a TR on RP

[Menalque]

I’ve only played with town!cinn and I’ve never seen him use it the way he was using it here

So it’s a big enough shift from what I know of him for me to think it’s weird

I think his reactions to being scummed are more indicative re: your slot but in conjunction with that it pings me more

[Menalque]

Yes, I can easily see scum adopting a tunnel-y under the radar style this game.

I never got the chance to say lol irony

[Menalque]

idk, I didn't find him boring to read when I replaced in ClearlyClarity's game

Also you made like 2 posts that game and I’d already caught your slot as scum

[Menalque]

idk, I didn't find him boring to read when I replaced in ClearlyClarity's game

Also you made like 2 posts that game and I’d already caught your slot as scum

Actually you were way more hype D1 even when you were pushing on every town PR.

Literally what are you talking about

[Menalque]

Btw I’m going out in a minute and probs won’t be around during the evening

[Menalque]

I mean what do you mean I was way more hype pushing on every PR

Like that didn’t happen

[Menalque]

I pushed on pisskop a bit until the claim then hard defended him

[Menalque]

I was uneasy about chenn but still pushed luv (ie scum) and got him lynched

[Menalque]

I pushed on pisskop a bit until the claim then hard defended him

Yep, you pushed pisskop and chennisden, just then you pushed actual scum

I didn’t push chenn

That’s a lie

[Menalque]

Spicy

[Menalque]

Spicy

[Menalque]

Can you share why/how you got to your scumread of me? As it stands, it looks like it's either a bandwagon read or an OMGUS.

Honestly? You're right. Sorry. I signed up for too many games and I've always been more miserable in games outside of Newbie queue. I hate being in the dark about reads. Your posting has actually been p towny and I OMGUS'd out of annoyance.

Thanks for the honesty. If you find the time over the next few days, can you drop a quick post on people who feel the most scummy? We can @ you with specifics from there.

UNVOTE:

Got my sights set on URAP and Cinnamon now. Hoping to see more content from them tomorrow.

I'm not really sure what more content you want to see right now. It's kind of weird that you say that when I've posted my reads and you haven't interacted with them at all.

I like this post, feels genuine

I'm happy calling EP/CC/Chemist town. Creature I'm less confident on but I'd still call it a town lean. Of the more prolific posters in the last couple of pages, LUV isn't giving me particularly good vibes.

Can you share why/how you got to your scumread of me? As it stands, it looks like it's either a bandwagon read or an OMGUS.

Honestly? You're right. Sorry. I signed up for too many games and I've always been more miserable in games outside of Newbie queue. I hate being in the dark about reads. Your posting has actually been p towny and I OMGUS'd out of annoyance.

Thanks for the honesty. If you find the time over the next few days, can you drop a quick post on people who feel the most scummy? We can @ you with specifics from there.

UNVOTE:

Got my sights set on URAP and Cinnamon now. Hoping to see more content from them tomorrow.

I'm not really sure what more content you want to see right now. It's kind of weird that you say that when I've posted my reads and you haven't interacted with them at all.

I like this post, feels genuine

Talk to me about this? I had the opposite reaction.

I think it just reads like indignant townie, I think scum is more likely to shift their play to appease the people pushing them

Hi sorry I suck

I’m here though and read Menal’s case on Gamma and am willing to follow it

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

L-2

[Menalque]

Idk where I am with this game atm

Like chem flip hasn’t really helped me with anything, I still kinda think gamma is scum but then this seems like a weird progression there — why call town early and then get on board with another case? That feels more like scum trying to get behind a mislynch (esp as I think gamma had a decent chance of going through there and it seemed early for scum to bus)

[Menalque]

Also chem consistently calling creature town would ping me but as DP was doing it hat doesn’t help me either

[Menalque]

And if gamma isn’t scum then I think the odds of creature scum go way down

Which leaves 2 scum out of (pine, EP, RP)

[Menalque]

All of whom I think have been towny throughout the game

[Menalque]

VOTE: RP

[Menalque]

I started TRing gamma based on the chem flip

[Menalque]

Please get off the Gamma wagon. I'm heading to work and don't want to risk it while he's in hammer range, so here goes....

I've been in a hood with Gamma since D3.

Err

Explain?

Also I haven’t forgotten you RP but I’m waiting to get on my laptop

[Menalque]

I’m here I’m just a bit overgamed and there’s a while on deadline here

[Menalque]

Ill try to effort this later but for now I think RP is a good lynch still

He was pushing gamma hella hard and pocketing me while I was tunnelled there

Plus there’s just the PoE for me at this point

Like I said, I was TRing gamma based on the chem associationals

Now, creature is prob town given gamma!town which now seems pretty locked in from the EP claim

Either way we have time to sort that right, because either EP gets NKd tonight confirming him + gamma or he neighbourises someone else and we have a 3 way conf (maybe DP would be best bc that confs that EP is a loyal?)

So that means that scum is in (RP, pine) with 100% certainty

Probably the remaining scum is just that pool, but I’m not entirely sold on creature yet

So I’d rather lynch RP because I think he’s likelier than pine

[Menalque]

Oh nice quickhammer

You still lose auto but i guess there weren’t really other options?

[Menalque]

What have I ever done to make you think I would claim as town before being at L-1?

[Menalque]

I don’t do set up spec so

[Menalque]

I mean assuming pine is your scumbuddy i guess this gives you the mislynch on me tomorrow but you’re still not gonna make it through lylo

[Menalque]

Stop misrepping me where did I claim pr

[Menalque]

I’m chill

I mean, I wouldn’t be if I didn’t know this was auto

I just don’t appreciate you ostensibly ”waiting for me” just to hammer immediately just so it buys you one more day

[Menalque]

Also you didn’t even consider that PR!me could have a PR that wouldn’t play into the general PR meta, so you’d clearly already made your mind up

[Menalque]

Lol ok RP

Like I said, I guess this buys you a day as I don’t see how I’m not getting mislynched tomorrow

Idk what you’re planning on doing at lylo but you do you

[Menalque]

Yeah I realise I’m prob getting mislynched today, but you shouldn’t: I’m triathlete Matt, town 1shot doc 1shot gunsmith 1shot nea 1shot pokeball vendor

[Menalque]

N1 I nea’d DP because i felt confident on gamma but I wasn’t sure on him

N2 I doctored DP bc of his claim

N3 I gun smithed creature and that’s part of why I dropped pushing him

N4 I poke ball vended to gamma

[Menalque]

Like a fruit vendor but with flavor I guess?

[Menalque]

But yeah lynch RP after me

[Menalque]

Lmao gg guys

We really got mechanically fucked

[Menalque]

I’m ngl, I kinda gave up then read through and decided the bets shot was a claim so ridiculous it would clearly get me lynched just in case you didn’t think scum would claim something so incredibly dumb

[Menalque]

I was a goon, we had no roleblocker

[Menalque]

Tbf bodyguard didn’t do anthing

[Menalque]

The night elements died we killed him

[Menalque]

We just didn’t bother to check EP while chem was around bc he was one of our nislynch targets for lylo

[Menalque]

Creature, you were scary to play against

[Menalque]

I like birds

I legit <3 you PB

[Menalque]

Creature how did you know I was scum from so early?

[Menalque]

Creature how did you know I was scum from so early?

Initially I sheeped Tim/RC but then I noticed the way you were playing here was vastly different from your town game.

Ahh, well, fair. I’m trying to get my meta all fucked up so people can’t read me that way. I knew it was a risk to depart wildly for the first time from the little meta I had as scum but ah well

[Menalque]

+1 on enjoying the flavour btw

[Menalque]

I’m trying to get my meta all fucked up so people can’t read me that way.

Why is this a goal for you?

I don’t want to be readable from my meta, mostly cause I prefer scum atm and apparently my town game is naturally obv towny in a way I think I’d struggle to consistently replicate as scum

[Menalque]

Why, do you think it’s a bad idea RC?

[Menalque]

Why, do you think it’s a bad idea RC?

I recall reading somewhere that sandbagging your town meta to mask your scum meta is bad play.

Better to just work on your scum meta as much as you can.

Trying to be unreadable by meta means changing your play as both alignments sounds an awful lot like sandbagging your town game to conceal your alignment as scum.
Furthermore, it's not going to have the intended goal unless you're okay just being -pretty good- as scum. Truly unreadable players who aren't coming across as towny just get lynched eventually.
What I'm saying is that it's in my opinion against the spirit of the game, it's sort of a dead end in terms of how far it'll get you as scum, it's going to hurt your town game, and just generally there's better ways to do things.

If you come across as towny as both alignments, you won't have the same -meta issues- and you'll have a scum skillset that will continue being useful once people catch on to your playstyle.

This is... useful, and I’ll think about it.

Thank you.