Large Normal 221 - Endgame

[Nero Cain]

b/c you and pops and maybe KK are my top 3 scum reads and none of you are getting lynched. Pops is either a town invest or your scumbuddy and KK not explaining why he voted Niko despite knowing Niko was a vig seems ??? to me so I don't really have anything to argue about right now also im lazy in general.

[Kirari Momobami]

Yeah KK not fullclaiming is still distracting, I don't know it makes him scum but it's something we absolutely sort out tomorrow in massclaim.

Was your nom read just a passing fad or something? Also I guess I wasn't sure how serious your pops scumread was, for some reason you presented it in kinda a jokey manner.

[Nero Cain]

I change my reads like all the time. I wasn't all that convinced the pops was scum but I'm kinda tinfoiling that you two could possibly be scum together.

[Kirari Momobami]

Do you think town nom declares Vork and Otter both town despite having no read on either the whole game just because I pushed them?

[Nero Cain]

yes, that's a totally reasonable thought process.

VOTE: Kirari Momobami but will move back to Otter to avoid a nl.

[Kirari Momobami]

So nom is a nulltown for you now then or...?

[Nero Cain]

I think he's just town b/c you know there are only two scum left and I think it's not nom.

[Kirari Momobami]

anyways putting my money where my mouth is but prob gonna push Nom tomorrow (kinda listening to pops)

VOTE: montosh

lets lynch pop.

THEY

are prob scum.

I kinda don't understand how you switched from following pops yesterday to having pops as a top scumread today. Obviously you can change your read but why? Just the joking about what she would or wouldn't do as scum?

[popsofctown]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv3JoYULD98

[Nero Cain]

Kirari is not in the lynchpool today cause if she's town she's probably some kind of PR

I thought this was odd. So FMPOV he's a town PR that knows you are a PR or he's a scumbuddy that's light defending you. I don't think this logic was that hard to understand.

[Kirari Momobami]

True, but 2500 is before 2511, I was kinda asking what led you into the read as of 2500

[popsofctown]

I unconfirmed sanity rolecopped Kirari using post 11 before I sane copped RedFlavor usingpost 1480.

It tells you I'm a jack of all trades beneath my username

[Nero Cain]

2500

b/c 2500 is a joke post lightly ribbing him for not wanting to be called they hence why they is bolded. Why are things so hard for you to understand?

[ofrhz]

VOTE: nom

[Kirari Momobami]

b/c 2500 is a joke post lightly ribbing him for not wanting to be called they hence why they is bolded. Why are things so hard for you to understand?

I honestly did not even get that it was a joke about the pronoun... okay. I guess your reads feel like you're playing bumper cars kinda going here then going there. Doesn't make you scum but it does help me think through your thought process since if you're seeing something I'm missing I'd like to see it. Given most of my townread on you is from you having 'that town nero feel' it kinda surprised me that you seemed to be stepping back this dayphase. I still think you're town.

[ofrhz]

Another example is her having the conviction that I could be scum when you mentioned it and asked her about it, yet never voting me anyway ever, and instead sitting on Otter who I believe was the attempted lynch for scum today. And ever since I said that, you've been irrationally pushing my slot with countless contradicting possibilities, and I think that's stupid whatever alignment you are.

I uhh actually never voted otter. I didn't intend to be not voting for this long this dayphase mainly because I made the (evidently false) assumption that once I started engaging with Otter that I would be able to get a better read on him.

[Kirari Momobami]

Both RedFlavor and Vorkuta have been early on the Creature wagon and not on Niko, so I don't think they're scum with Creature.

If there's scum on the Creature wagon, wouldn't they be more likely to be earlier on it? Red and vork were votes 2 and 3, not putting creature in any real danger. The second wave was Kop(Niko), Nero, Roster, Jesus. I just don't see scum doing that when Creature is not even obviously the lynch.

Now, Roster immediately unvotes, as does Red after Alchemist joins. So I'm still good with Red as scum here. Roster is unclear. I'm good with Alchemist and Nero as town, and leaning town on Jesus.

The funny thing is I think Alch pointed to this as a potential reason to TR otter, but I distinctly remember disliking this post when it was made in real time. At the time it felt like warrantless presuppositions, and now I'm worried it was TMI, but there's definitely a chance that Otter just correctly sorted the wagon? idk, Otter is a wagon it's very easy to second guess myself on because there's arguments to be made either way. He could still flip scum if we really went off the deep end with traitor spec

[popsofctown]

Kirari keeps talking like she's played with everyone before it's creepy

[Kirari Momobami]

I'm actually right outside ur window, watchin u type

[ofrhz]

I do admit I am not sure otter has the disposition to try to fake a townslip to dodge a lynch as scum

But I also am kinda blown away by him missing 4 pages worth of posts discussing traitors in this game... That's 4% of the entire game he has not understood, basically all of it in the last 10 days

Like, convince me that all that setup spec is worth my time reading right now. It feels like a distraction from hunting groupscum, which seems like a better priority.

Do you think nom and kirari are tvt?

It seems possible. I'm not convinced the setup spec is an intentional distraction, if that's what you're getting at. I just feel at this stage it's a rabbit hole not worth going too far down.

I somehow missed this response earlier.

I asked this question mainly because if you thought it was likely they weren't TvT, wouldn't you be more inclined to read their 1v1 more closely if you thought one of them could've been scum? Even if their 1v1 was mainly about setup spec

[Jesus Louisus]

VOTE: Otter

[DeasVail]

I have given this some thought and I have decided that I would be uncomfortable lynching anyone outside of Otter at this point. I still think he's our best bet at hitting scum and if I am wrong on this then seriously I just want to know. I know this is weird and perhaps even selfish, and overall I still think that Otter is scum, but I can't deny that it's a factor in how I'm thinking.

I also don't want this to derail the day at all, but I am reasonably suspicious of KK being a Serial Killer.

[LuckyOtter]

Of those on my wagon at L-1, Kirari and DV have been pushing me the hardest, and continue to do so. I still think DV is less likely to be groupscum based on voting patterns, and even less likely to be traitor based on play. @DV this is why my read on you is stagnant, and why I'm not obsessing over you--sorry you feel ignored but I just think lynching elsewhere is more likely to hit scum!

Pops and Nero I've been townreading for a while now, although Nero really pulling for the Montosh lynch and then falling in line on my wagon fairly quietly is pretty concerning. Pops I don't think flops on and off my wagon like she did as scum.

Still no idea what Vork is doing this game but I don't think is groupscum and not interested in pushing there right now.

So I guess my order of preference, if not ofrhz, is Kirari>{DV/Nero}>Vorkuta>Pops

A) "continue to do so"...I moved off you and hard pushed nom... so this is doing a lot to help my concerns with your disengagement 0.o

B) Let me check Nero's vote but uh... Did he "fall in line"?

C) If you don't know what Vork is doing why do you think he isn't groupscum?

A. Yes but it's not like you've cleared me. You continue to entertain the idea of me as scum while you hard push nom, which looks to me like making sure I'm still plan B in case nobody follows you on nom. It's also making me think you and of are both scum and you're both trying very hard not to get each other lynched, but that's something I need to think through still.

B. He voted me with no real conviction. He gave his reasoning and he's since explained it further. I've also since then said I still see him more likely as town, so I'm not sure why you're pushing on this point.

C. I can answer a couple things at the same time here. I'm trying to push the most obvious candidates for groupscum based on vote counts. That's ofrhz first, you second. I could revisit Vork but at this point it's really not worth it. We're at a point right now where we can eliminate obvious answers first, see the flip, and move from there.

I'm really not an obvious answer for groupscum unless you believe I made it my goal to bring lots of negative attention to Red and eventually bus him.

[LuckyOtter]

ofrhz ISO and I'm kind of blown away she thinks she's done more than me this game:
First 1/3 of posts are either fluff or small pushes (e.g. a simple "why?"). I'm not going to scumread the fact that she doesn't follow-up on these in-game because I do a lot of my own note-taking in the background, and I think I've especially done so here because it's a large game. I understand how it looks scummy and is maybe not a good strategy, but I think it might just be a playstyle ppl have to deal with. I'm pointing this out because several of the people scumreading me are doing so because of this kind of posting, but somehow it's ok from ofrhz. It's really just NAI, imo, unless you have really good evidence the questioning is directionless or inconsistent. What does concern me is that ofrhz frequently admits to being disengaged this game, busy for irl reasons, having a hard time getting into the game because of wallposts, etc., but is happy to throw shade at me for apparently not doing anything this game. That is disingenuous and opportunistic.

Anyway, there's a hop on the Red wagon in here but with no explanation, and it doesn't last long.

The first substantive post and serious vote is on Niko.

D2 vote is on Jesus, who had already attracted 3 votes. Red is also starting to attract attention so this could very well be an attempt to keep the attention elsewhere. Here's the explanation for the Jesus vote:

VOTE: jesus

I am happy to indulge your kinks

Why is jesus scum now? Have you begun worshipping buddha?

I didn’t like his votes around deadline yesterday

His reaction to guns blazing does seem rolefishy too

No conviction, just looks happy to join a wagon. There's some light pushing after this but not much that is substantive

This post still stands out to me:

I straight up townread Eyes, nom, and red

Lucky is meh mainly because their posts are a chore to get through

LUV hasn't left much of an impression on me either way

I'm not opposed to moving my vote onto LuckyOtter or LUV, but I'm not sure why I should atm absent a compelling reason to move my vote off of Jesus and onto someone else

Inconsistent view of me, defending Red, pushing Jesus but has still not stuck her neck out too much to say way. Several posts along the lines of "I didn't like this," "this is bad"...

The montosh vote looks a lot like the earlier jesus vote. There's already a wagon forming, and the reasoning is pretty weak:

Also what did you mean by the case on montosh is scattered? The ability of montosh pushers to summarize a case on him shouldn’t be alignment indicative for montosh at all?

to be clear you still stand by the montosh read, right?

No, I don’t townread him anymore, and I’ve been struggling to find a strong second scumread today

Montosh’s d2 play is basically iioa

And him sheeping his townreads onto me without really engaging his townreads is ??? Especially when half of his townreads scumread him

I’d vote there but I’m kind of confused as to why people don’t scumread nom atm

To reiterate, my one line scumcase on nom is that I think her RF scumlean looks like distancing and she didn’t vote there until pops started aggressively pushing RF

Easily the worst voting record, and the ML votes look opportunistic. Reads are inconsistent. I just think this is the most obvious place to lynch today. And that's about all I have to say.

[LuckyOtter]

Except that I'm going to quash my speculation that kirari and ofrzh are scum together since ofrhz openly admits to sheeping kirari. That would be weird.