Project ARCH - Epilogue

[Dunnstral]

I am Dunnstral

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Bambi Jay

[Dunnstral]

be sure that if your on the wagon you actually can use the serum to your advantage and not just waste it. So yeah, we gotta plan ahead of the crowd.

Then the mafia know where to shoot

[Dunnstral]

Then we know mafia would also wanna be on the wagon to get serum too.

We don't know that, though

[Dunnstral]

Here are some reasons a member of the mafia might not want to be on the lynch wagon:

-Mafia have a role that doesn't really need serum
-Mafia have ways to get serum we don't know about, and want to appear as if they have no serum
-Mafia have a limited shot ability they want to save, and so won't need to serum until much later
-Wifom, because people think they would want to go for the serum

To touch up on additional ways to get serum, we already know of one:

All players on a lynch wagon receive 2 Serum.
If a lynched player was aligned with Simotech, all players receive an additional 2 Serum.

Take note of this, it's not that everybody who lynched the Simotech player gets 4 serum total, it's that they get 4 serum total, and even players who were off-wagon get 2 serum. So if a member of the mafia ever dies, every player now has serum.

Not let's think about game balance, with that in mind. When a member of the mafia dies, everyone gets 2 serum. Either mafia abilities are extraordinarily powerful for their serum cost, or with additional serum... or it's not such a big deal for all of town to get serum, or maybe it's something in between. See, the fundamental problem with this game design, otherwise, would be that lynching a member of the mafia snowballs the game heavily in towns favor.

Even if they don't (I think they do), if they get it a townie isn't getting it.

It's the different between, say, 8 townies getting it and 9 townies getting it. It's something, sure, but there's probably more to think about than that

All players start with 0 Serum.

Anti-Town Faction(s) that have access to a factional nightkill CANNOT do the factional nightkill next to their other abilities, if any.

Anti-Town Faction(s) may or may not have access to factional abilities not listed in their role PM's.

This says otherwise, friend. I just want us to know the truth here.

That doesn't say anything, actually

It doesn't say that mafia can't perform a kill without serum, it only says that players start with 0 serum, which only tells us that there's nobody with serum stashed up from the start of the game, which doesn't tell us much in the bigger picture.

[Dunnstral]

So what was your original point, do you think that only stronger town roles should be on a lynch wagon, and we should scrutinize those on a lynch wagon later?

[Dunnstral]

Do you think mafia would claim negative utility town?

[Dunnstral]

... I'm saying negative utility town could be used now to let people get serum, not that they're mafia. Jesus. When I'm talking about A and B, that doesn't mean you combine em.

So you think we should lynch, say, a miller, who you don't think is mafia, so that we get serum?

[Dunnstral]

What cloudkicker said didn't even make sense though. It's an incomplete thought.

Yeah I guess Its nice for the lynchee having more power and stuff... Still seems up to the majority to spot sus behavior before that tho cloud.

In what way does the lynchee have more power? Can you decipher her post for me?

[Dunnstral]

How does town nitpicking give lynchees more power?

[Dunnstral]

Yes I do. The weak are fuel for the stronger ones here.

Alright.

In order to win, we need to lynch all members of the mafia

We don't need serum to win, but it can help us win

Lynching somebody we think is town to give serum to a bunch of people we don't know the alignment of is counterproductive.

Why wouldn't you lynch somebody you think is scum?

[Dunnstral]

Natural selection at it's finest.

Please tell me you don't see the value of the Mod making Negative utility roles as free food for the stronger roles to get more shit. Gimme an easy early scumread.

I'm only going to lynch players I believe are scum.

If somebody claimed that they gave out 6 serum to anybody who lynched them, I wouldn't lynch them, no.

[Dunnstral]

since there’s scum gain via selfing

No there isn't

Once again: when a scum player is lynched, ALL players gain 2 serum

I don't think that is a snowball mechanic to let town breeze through the game, and so I don't think denying serum is incredibly impactful

Less serum means it's easier to keep track of stuff. Like if somebody got roleblocked - who had serum?

[Dunnstral]

Because day 1 is a crapshoot anyway and you know it, Dunn. Atleast I'm trying to make it easier for us later on for us.

Why would we lynch players we think are town later on?

[Dunnstral]

I can agree with claiming at L-2 instead of L-1 this game

If only because people are greedy

[Dunnstral]

i mean it's a small benefit but you prevent 1 player from gaining an additional 2 serum

You are assuming that more serum in play is always better for the town

I do not believe this is necessarily the case

[Dunnstral]

... We don't know if we'll think they're town later on.

Since when do we lynch players we think are town on day 1 because we "don't know if we'll think they're town later on"

What kind of backwards logic is that? Why not vote someone you think is scum?

[Dunnstral]

Why would you lynch a player you think is town now, over someone you think is scum now, just because they claimed a negative utility role? No, ESPECIALLY because they claimed a negative utility role, if you don't think scum would do so.

[Dunnstral]

i mean it's a small benefit but you prevent 1 player from gaining an additional 2 serum

You are assuming that more serum in play is always better for the town

I do not believe this is necessarily the case

Can you precise your though about that, mechanics arent my forte

Having less serum in play makes it easier to keep track of things that happen.

If on day 2, 1 player 1 poisoned and will die in 2 days, another player is roleblocked, and another player has left the game thread, it can be to towns benefit that there is less serum in play, to narrow down who is performing what action and who isn't

[Dunnstral]

Do we have any reason right now to assume its a BAD thing?

Yes, we do - if a mafia player is lynched, every player gets 2 serum. Even players that weren't on the lynch wagon. I do not think this is a town snowball mechanic, at that seems like silly design, and I know this is going to end up being a pretty complicated setup

[Dunnstral]

particularly since Dunn wants to control who exactly gets serum.

I never said that

[Dunnstral]

With how much you've been talking about mafia giving every one serum, it sure as heck seemed implied.

Uh, no it doesn't?

What I'm saying is that if a member of the mafia is lynched, everybody gets serum - that's got nothing to do with controlling who gets serum, it's something that can't be controlled

[Dunnstral]

Natural selection at it's finest.

Please tell me you don't see the value of the Mod making Negative utility roles as free food for the stronger roles to get more shit. Gimme an easy early scumread.

The mod isn't deciding who the players are lynching

If you think that the mod placed negative utility roles in the setup to be lynched, you should instead flip that around and think "ok, so based on my setup speculation, this person is probably town, so I'll avert expectations and lynch someone else instead"

[Dunnstral]

Technically lynching a negative utility town is controlling that outcome, Dunn.

I don't care

It's better to aim for scummy people, than for towny people

There will probably be mafia who get serum day 1 regardless. The only thing town can do is say "hey, that was suspicious" and lynch them later for it

[Dunnstral]

Tbh at first I thought mafia could have a serum pool with a list of actions w/ a cost and a limit per night. The town picking up the serum could slowly reduce the pool while gaining serum for mafia could mitigate the loss, idk

Everybody starts with 0 serum

[Dunnstral]

(s)he's bringing up the idea that mafia could have a separate serum pool not tied to them in particular.

So they don't have serum, instead they have serum-x?

Sounds unlikely to me

What I'm doing instead is making sure we decide who gets serum and shit. Is that so bad?

Actually, you're arguing for policy lynching somebody that you would, by your own admissions, think is town today, for the sole purpose of gaining serum.

[Dunnstral]

I am averting expectations already though. That's why I'm going for them.

Why did you vote for somebody random then?

[Dunnstral]

Natural selection at it's finest.

Please tell me you don't see the value of the Mod making Negative utility roles as free food for the stronger roles to get more shit. Gimme an easy early scumread.

I'm only going to lynch players I believe are scum.

If somebody claimed that they gave out 6 serum to anybody who lynched them, I wouldn't lynch them, no.

Natural selection at it's finest.

Please tell me you don't see the value of the Mod making Negative utility roles as free food for the stronger roles to get more shit. Gimme an easy early scumread.

The mod isn't deciding who the players are lynching

If you think that the mod placed negative utility roles in the setup to be lynched, you should instead flip that around and think "ok, so based on my setup speculation, this person is probably town, so I'll avert expectations and lynch someone else instead"

Was the 'easy early scumread' thing in post 40 bravado or what?

[Dunnstral]

I am Dunnstral

I was going to follow this up with "...and I'm a miller." in my next post, but after post 15 I wanted to see what Bambi's deal was

[Dunnstral]

So bambi jay argues for lynching negative utility roles to the point where he votes people she townreads now, weak fuel the strong etc, but then I claim miller and her vote is glued to Omochao while other stuff is happening too

[Dunnstral]

I mean, at the very least can you not make it a quote pyramid at the same time? Please?
Also, why did that vote happen CloudKicker. I can't tell why you made the vote from your previous posts or context.

I know you are trying to distance yourself from me when I openchainsawed your slot

lol this is such useless jargon i feel like it's made from a scum who is trying to play off as an informative townie

VOTE: CloudKicker

Yeah, what does 154 even mean?

[Dunnstral]

Hey we had a serum debate. Let's have a company debate!

Anyone against claiming companies?

I can think of bad reasons to do this, but I can't think of good reasons to do this

Welcome

I hope we all can have a meeting some time

Is this supposed to mean something?

ego posting
won't be here most of d1, recovering from surgery that I wasn't entirely expecting to be a thing by this game starting

This is probably where Bambi Jay should be moving her vote

The following list contains all companies that could exist in this game:
Iustitia
WNGD Research Centre
Aeon Technologies
Johnson and Family
GenX Inc.
Securipal
Outcasts (no company, unemployed)

I don't see Simotech here, so idk why people are bringing it up, i assume it's some flavor related thing im unaware of.

oh so Simotech is scum?
Do we know if it's a 3rd party or the groupscum of the game.

So this is either a townslip or fake

Probably a good idea with that whole 'lynch -utility town' idea suddenly popping up. Want to claim masons with me instead?

Not really

Oof.
VOTE: Rautherdir
Did not think scum would be slipping on page 5.

Wait maybe not

VOTE: Bambi
I'm voting this again and would like responses to why I voted this, in fact

Lean town on this progression

[Dunnstral]

ERROR ERROR! Hackers detected rebooting system. System cooldown period: (expired on 2019-07-20 16:05:03)

Reboot C:\Windows\System32\MariaR

[Dunnstral]

Bambi voted Omo in rvs, I'm saying they should be moving their vote somewhere else as town

[Dunnstral]

Because again, notice my intention and

what a said

. You even brought it up before bro.

I don't get it

It looked like you were saying we should be voting millers even if we think they're town now because we'd have to get rid of them later

And then you say you think I'm town

And then I claim miller

But you don't move your vote to me, even thouh it seems like you were arguing that we couldn't get scum anyway or something

[Dunnstral]

I am Dunnstral

I was going to follow this up with "...and I'm a miller." in my next post, but after post 15 I wanted to see what Bambi's deal was

Looking at Dunn's post after this drew me back to this
@Dunn nice, wanna just ping pong Avengers memes for a while

I don't know avengers memes

If that sounded like one, it was a coincidence

[Dunnstral]

We should start running up some players that have brought only lame discussions so far.

Who do you think we should vote?

[Dunnstral]

I implied that the green gear and I were mefia and that his quoted post was an attempt to distance himself from me because I associated my slot with his by voting anime detective who fosed them

Good one

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

why me = fry me

[Dunnstral]

Why do you keep saying mefia

[Dunnstral]

Yeah, and see most the argument stuff was BEFORE that, Fred.

Pedit: Bro I wanted to give us something to actually do and not just do standard RVS shit in what seems like a fun setup.

OK

I buy that

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Vifam

[Dunnstral]

dunn havent you played with cloud before ???

They said mafia normally back then

[Dunnstral]

Pedit: Bro I wanted to give us something to actually do and not just do standard RVS shit in what seems like a fun setup.

Push players?

I did do that tho.

Who are you pushing?

[Dunnstral]

I will be incredibly easy to read especially since it’s a one shot game and I don’t really plan on being active again, so I don’t have to worry about killing my scum game by being too towny, so dw

What does this even mean

[Dunnstral]

dunn havent you played with cloud before ???

They said mafia normally back then

So I thought this was a crock of shit but turns out in Perfect Blue Mafia CK actually did what Dunn is saying

Why is this what you went to research?

[Dunnstral]

I don't think Redpanda is a good lynch

[Dunnstral]

It's possible that he has a town or scum role that interacts with companies and that's why he asked

The not doing anything else is whatever, there are other people who haven't done anything else

[Dunnstral]

y r u voting me @dunn

I think your posting has been lame so far

Among the active posters I could most easily see you as scum

I believe the claim of Miller has nothing to do with if a user is a virus or not. They are as null as the void.

Really?

[Dunnstral]

What is Fred the Cat doing?

[Dunnstral]

fred the cat things

Which head of the hydra is speaking right now

[Dunnstral]

do you really have to ask that dunn? :L

no

[Dunnstral]

I think it's strange that your read on me seems to be 'he claimed miller so he's null, because miller claims are null'

When a lot more happened than that

[Dunnstral]

I'm going to die regardless?

[Dunnstral]

19 is a weird size for a game

In my mind, the progression goes like this:
5 people: 1 mafia
9 people: 2 mafia
13 people: 3 mafia
17 people: 4 mafia
21 people: 5 mafia

So I think third party is pretty likely. Or maybe I'm just wrong and 19 is considered normal for 4 scum

[Dunnstral]

Day 1 Ends In 20 days, 7 hours, 49 minutes.

... wig

im not upset with this ftr i just hope we dont wind up using all of it

VOTE: rauth

townread the wagon composition, dont townread the wagonner. lgbt stands for let's get this bread etc

dunn would you not vote rauth? i wanna get a townie wagon going on someone

I'm townreading them so far

[Dunnstral]

19 is a weird size for a game

In my mind, the progression goes like this:
5 people: 1 mafia
9 people: 2 mafia
13 people: 3 mafia
17 people: 4 mafia
21 people: 5 mafia

So I think third party is pretty likely. Or maybe I'm just wrong and 19 is considered normal for 4 scum

town might have killing power and more town to compensate for it

Town needs extra town to compensate for town killing power though?

[Dunnstral]

A town killing role = town power and more town = town power

it feels like double dipping to solve town shooting town (which might not even be bad for town)

[Dunnstral]

also rauth town why?

i wanna give vifam a bropass for a bit

What he talked about in regard to bambi seemed OK to me, and I don't see the reasons to scumread him that you guys are seeing

[Dunnstral]

19 is a weird size for a game

In my mind, the progression goes like this:
5 people: 1 mafia
9 people: 2 mafia
13 people: 3 mafia
17 people: 4 mafia
21 people: 5 mafia

So I think third party is pretty likely. Or maybe I'm just wrong and 19 is considered normal for 4 scum

town might have killing power and more town to compensate for it

Town needs extra town to compensate for town killing power though?

I disagree with this, there are 10:3 games with Vigilantes incorporated into them that are still able to be considered balanced without chucking in more town

That's what I'm saying actually

[Dunnstral]

Also: If Any Millers or some shit wanna claim so we can murder you to get some Serum that would be nice.

Why didn't you wait a miller claim first?

Because Dunn is basically confirmed town and shiz. That's why I did it page one before the Miller or someone appeared to give them shit if they DIDN'T claim.

I'm still open for the negative utility thing but Dunn's more useful alive. I did this mainly to get a read on a Miller. Wish it was somebody besides Dunn tho.

I have a hard time believing your whole d1 policy talk was meant to have reads on a possible future miller claim

Do you still think this?

[Dunnstral]

I mean if you only care about employed/unemployed you're actually wrong, we're employed

Weird flex but ok

[Dunnstral]

I was bored

Gamma's actually actually scum though

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I don't think you can gleam that he is scum based on his reactions there

[Dunnstral]

So why is he scum

[Dunnstral]

User 5 is correct. If my data banks are correct I have never been lynched Day 1 before as scum so putting in the effort to try is futile. If you have logical reasoning to think I'm a virus however I suggest you share it.

Your dying I promise

Why is she scum?

[Dunnstral]

that you didn't care to push until I called gamma outed scum

He pretty much just started posting though, and if we believe that he was reading up as he was doing so, he would have came up with his reason to vote maria at the same time, which would be unrelated to you

Wheme, why are you voting Maria?

[Dunnstral]

that you didn't care to push until I called gamma outed scum

He pretty much just started posting though, and if we believe that he was reading up as he was doing so, he would have came up with his reason to vote maria at the same time, which would be unrelated to you

Wheme, why are you voting Maria?

Cause I don’t like her post restriction

Why does that make her scum, even if faked?

[Dunnstral]

that you didn't care to push until I called gamma outed scum

He pretty much just started posting though, and if we believe that he was reading up as he was doing so, he would have came up with his reason to vote maria at the same time, which would be unrelated to you

Wheme, why are you voting Maria?

Cause I don’t like her post restriction

This is also a terrible reason given the post restriction is clearly not real but okay. I'll buy that you're meming. Why vote me?

Cause I know scum you and this is scum you

Can you explain for the rest of us

[Dunnstral]

Why is it not scum wheme?

[Dunnstral]

You're going off on a tangent now

It doesn't matter what he did in M&M/Diffusion of power or how it was his worst game

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Chemist1422

Your posting is ultra lame, especially since vifam asked to spice things up and you shrugged that off

[Dunnstral]

What is the very large sample size?

[Dunnstral]

Cloudkicker if you had to vote for somebody right now, who would it be?

[Dunnstral]

Dunn why are you sidelining the game asking pretty useless questions instead of taking a stand on things?

From my point of view, you're the one on the sidelines. The game isn't all about you

[Dunnstral]

You could instead post how you feel about the responses to your questions

I do

WhemeStar hasn't been answering me because he's too busy arguing about gamma with you or something

[Dunnstral]

that you didn't care to push until I called gamma outed scum

He pretty much just started posting though, and if we believe that he was reading up as he was doing so, he would have came up with his reason to vote maria at the same time, which would be unrelated to you

Wheme, why are you voting Maria?

Cause I don’t like her post restriction

Why does that make her scum, even if faked?

that you didn't care to push until I called gamma outed scum

He pretty much just started posting though, and if we believe that he was reading up as he was doing so, he would have came up with his reason to vote maria at the same time, which would be unrelated to you

Wheme, why are you voting Maria?

Cause I don’t like her post restriction

This is also a terrible reason given the post restriction is clearly not real but okay. I'll buy that you're meming. Why vote me?

Cause I know scum you and this is scum you

Can you explain for the rest of us

Why is it not scum wheme?

[Dunnstral]

@Dun, whats your read?

Do you wanna vote purple detective w/ me?

Kidamn is null to me

[Dunnstral]

I don't want to vote Kidamn because if RC is town he's vastly overblowing how confident he is because he didn't like that Kidamn made a quip at him so now he wants him out, and if he's scum then yeah, but I don't want to encourage such behavior. My vote is fine where it is

What whemestar is doing rn makes no sense

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Kidamn

Alright

[Dunnstral]

Also, I think that there is a fairly significant chance that Rautherdir's slip is in fact a slip. I still think that's less than Kidamn's independent odds of being scum.
But I also do think that Kidamn/Rautherdir is more likely to be 2 scum than any other 2 pairing I can think of in the game.

What was the slip?

[Dunnstral]

Ok but if he was 3p he'd have claimed 3p.

Without even knowing what the theoretical 3rd party role is, you can't really assume that somebody would claim there if they were 3p


Why are you casing Raut right now? Are you relying on associations between Kidamn and Raut to push Kidamn?

[Dunnstral]

Like if I just want to lynch KidAmn I don't have to do anything. I could not post for the remainder of the day and KidAmn would die with the momentum that already exists.

Uh, no

[Dunnstral]

I think Gamma always looks a little scummy when he's town

[Dunnstral]

Hey Dunn what do you think about Primeape?

They are towny

[Dunnstral]

I think superfan is town

I believe I've only seen them as scum once, and I was on their team - I don't know how much they could have improved that ga,e/don't remember what was going on at the time

[Dunnstral]

I think Bambi Jay is town too

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral/CC/RCS/Fred The Cat/Sakura Hana/
confident

Gamma*(THISISTEMPORARYDONT@ME)/Redpanda/unwnd/[secret]

I like these reads from you

I'm not at "confident" level on Sakura Hana, IMO they should be in the tier below

[Dunnstral]

I think Bambi Jay is town too

Aren't you the person who fakeclaimed masons with scum!Bambi Jay because you townread them as scum?

That was elsa, and it was friendly neighbor/neighbor gambit

I don't really have experience with Bambi

[Dunnstral]

They are the same person

...are they?

Regardless, that doesn't really change my read

[Dunnstral]

@Rautherdir: Are you aligned with the Rebels?

like this is weird right

I don't think so. It's not the same as asking 'are you aligned with the town' because rebels is a different name. It has at least a small chance of being interesting, whereas 'are you town' doesn't really

[Dunnstral]

Like maybe somebody could confuse rebels with outcasts

[Dunnstral]

like i kinda fos everyone who is townreading rautherdir or trying to argue he's not scum and that's why i'm uncomfortable with CK as well
it feels like it's either TMI that he's not actually scum or just scum trying to downplay their buddy's scummy actions.

[Dunnstral]

Yeah, but what did he do with the reaction besides say 'lol this is towny reaction we are all good'

I don't think there's a lot more that needs to be done with the reaction

[Dunnstral]

Like if I just want to lynch KidAmn I don't have to do anything. I could not post for the remainder of the day and KidAmn would die with the momentum that already exists.

Uh, no

Why not

Kidamn didn't have THAT much momentum

Since he's switched gears now anyway, it only really got up to 5 votes, not the 7 he claimed

[Dunnstral]

Like if I just want to lynch KidAmn I don't have to do anything. I could not post for the remainder of the day and KidAmn would die with the momentum that already exists.

Uh, no

Why not

Kidamn didn't have THAT much momentum

Since he's switched gears now anyway, it only really got up to 5 votes, not the 7 he claimed

I disagree tbh

OK. Let's come back to this later and see if Kidamn gets lynched off of the current momentum, and we can figure out who's right

[Dunnstral]

@Dun what do you think of raut?

He doesn't deserve as much verbal pressure that he's getting. The reasons for scumreading him are basically "he's awkward" - he should be given more of a chance to post

[Dunnstral]

I don't like this post, seems way too focused on being right than actually having solid discourse

I'm willing to talk about how I'm right later if you want

[Dunnstral]

Do you have any confident reads?

Yes

What do you think of unwd?

I don't have an opinion on him

[Dunnstral]

It had 5 votes, one of which was mine. That's not as close to a lynch as you'd think, especially when the reasons for the lynch weren't all that in the first place and Kidamn hadn't responded yet

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Chemist1422

[Dunnstral]

Idk how I feel about Chemist

They've somehow honed in on everybody RC is focusing on though

[Dunnstral]

Can people vote the person I’m voting

Didn't you vote to sheep CC when you scumread CC

And then CC moved to primate

So...

[Dunnstral]

Nope

[Dunnstral]

This is a wagon I won't be letting happen today :/

[Dunnstral]

No

[Dunnstral]

Well then, what if I wagon Rautherdir anyway?

That would be a bad idea if you're town

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Unwnd

[Dunnstral]

May I get a summary of the most recent events?

friendship ended with unwnd

rauthedidar is my new friend

[Dunnstral]

Wheme's posting looks like he's trying to bait Celestial Coordinates into scumreading him

[Dunnstral]

Don't think we need a vig on fred the cat . . .

[Dunnstral]

IMO 917 was pretty defensive in a scummy way

That is legit one of the worst people to vig considering his effort is more then likely lacking town.

I saw the votes on Chemist before from some people, why is his lack of effort any less indicative than Chemist's lack of effort lol

The posting between the two seems pretty different to me and yes I'd say Chemist's lack of effort is scummy while Fred the Cat's isn't

[Dunnstral]

What wagon would be good?

[Dunnstral]

I'm not scumreading people based off of effectiveness though

And you didn't put chemist in your list of people to shoot so maybe we should be asking you this and not me

[Dunnstral]

VC here


Not really though

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Chemist

Why did you choose now to vote chemist by the way

What prompted you

[Dunnstral]

and also i kind of just registered that he's also the dude in that normal with all the informed prs who got annoyed at garmr for being super literal (the p3 guy avatar is what i remembered not the name

We get it, you read every game

[Dunnstral]

I don't nessecarily need it... I just don't want anyone else to have it.

I didn't get this impression from you before

[Dunnstral]

I haven't dismissed anyone or anything. Like I said, there are a lot of uncertain slots that could be scum.

But I'm confident that my lynch order kills enough of the scum early to give us enough serum to make the rest of the game easy.

Nah, my scum ability is to reset serum for everyone, since im 3rd in line thats, your above statement is untrue :/

Why did you start trolling and claiming scum?

[Dunnstral]

It's not hard to see this as scumplaining

I think you have a decent chance of being scum and nothing has given me a reason to reconsider and I wouldn't be as happy lynching the other lynch targets at the moment

You can say RC RC RC but it doesn't matter.

I thought you were town in the dance game and I don't get that feeling here. I'm not too confident but this isn't bad for a day 1 lynch, that's the kind of reasoning I'm going with

[Dunnstral]

There's no reason for this gamestate to exist. It's why I'm thinking it's manufactured and lead by scum.

People will lurk regardless, I'm not sure that "this gamestate" is a thing (I don't think it's a good defense, at least)

[Dunnstral]

unwnd can you try to like, try to centralize who you're calling out? who are the scummy people letting the gamestate be as illogical as you state it is? as valid and relatable-in-past games as 1240 it's meaningless to me if you're not pointing out who you think could be the scum trying to make the gamestate the way it is. like i've been in your position before and even though i was completely wrong about it it let me move the gamestate along and eventually lynch scum.

It's not really centralized, I don't think everyone voting me is scum. If I had to give individual tells on everyone, I'd say that CC (or RC) is null, Sakura is probably misguided town, Dunnstral is leaning scum, and then Bambi Jay is..just unfortunate. I'd scumread her but part of me thinks she doesn't care enough to be scum.

When I was talking about

the votes

, I meant every vote. You have 3 votes on Rauth that I seriously can't remember why they were made in the first place; same with the 2 on Primate which counts your own. What's your reason for Primate if you're still on them? Primate's behavior is inconclusive to me, just seems like he's grabbing a lot of the common topics and aligning them in a form of a paragraph. The problem I'm facing (and maybe you're tired of hearing about this) is not plays and conversations made are not very distinguishable from the others. I'm pretty sure in the example of Primate you have someone who's acting close to the same. Who's the scum there? I don't have an individual example to compare but when the thread is like this you have similar behavior that is hard to distinguish from one and the other. When it comes to my own wagon, I feel RC has done nothing notable and if I were commenting on his logic I'd say it's pretty bad when it comes to Me/Gamma/KC. Sakura seems a bit more innocuous just from a tone perspective and I feel like she's easily influenced by people like RC hence she's there. I'd say her jump on me is probably the least I'm worried about for that fact alone. Everything Dunnstral has said thus far rings hollow to me, moreover there are some certain things I don't like that I haven't given myself the time to address. It's a process of his wording, the way he's said things. Maybe you're interested in hearing more about it. I have nothing to say about Bambi which is both good/bad.

I don't know why the assumption being made is that I think RC is leading a herd against me, personally Dunnstral voted me before RC even considered the fact. Bambi just wants 'murder', and then Sakura is probably the only sheep there. I see Penguin has voted me now and Fred and I've already talked about Fred needs to be vigged and if somehow you don't see that by now then I'm not sure what to say.

It seems like you started talking about one thing then started talking about something else

[Dunnstral]

It's not hard to see this as scumplaining

I think you have a decent chance of being scum and nothing has given me a reason to reconsider and I wouldn't be as happy lynching the other lynch targets at the moment

You can say RC RC RC but it doesn't matter.

I thought you were town in the dance game and I don't get that feeling here. I'm not too confident but this isn't bad for a day 1 lynch, that's the kind of reasoning I'm going with

Can you link, also what is different from his game then and this one?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=80283

The difference is that I don't townread him in this game

[Dunnstral]

That is generally what happens in a static environment, there is nothing that stands out hence I have to do guesswork on multiple instances

Your posting isn't making me think you're town

[Dunnstral]

Felt a bit forced from Rauth but maybe a victim of the covering all posters format.

I don't think Unwnd is scummy. I thought he had a specific tone that could be seen that way but he's got it in his other games too.

MariaR was the main one that rumpletumple comment was about. There's people saying about the PR that it means this or that because it's her and I just really have to take it at face value. Personally I thinks she's been a little basic in content but it's not overly concerning me.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Think BambiJay is scummy too.

Do you think he's acting similarly in this game to other games he's played?

[Dunnstral]

I think Dunnstral is acting different from the dance game too but his tone is always a certain way, perhaps deliberately. I think part of that is why i dislike him, because I think that the arguments he's making maybe match his normal town tone but lack the necessity he brings when he actually cares about things he's bringing up

And I'm not sure if he does

[Dunnstral]

I think Dunnstral is acting different from the dance game too but his tone is always a certain way, perhaps deliberately. I think part of that is why i dislike him, because I think that the arguments he's making maybe match his normal town tone but lack the necessity he brings when he actually cares about things he's bringing up

And I'm not sure if he does

I feel like saying that I'm playing different is probably true, but it's a different game with a different role. I don't think 1:1 behavior is completely similar nor is it a sure tell.

[Dunnstral]

Why does miller matter in a setup that has semi-bastard mechanics in play. I could care less what he claims

What does this mean

[Dunnstral]

"Why does miller matter" as if it were an important power role


I think the reason they're not voting me is because I'm town, not because I'm a miller

[Dunnstral]

... Man, scum don't try at all anymore do they?

My arguments with Dunn proved he's a Miller and frankly trying to make us doubt him is bad.

Pedit: Monkey as in Primate or Monkey as in Almost50 aka the Monkey Man?

OK but

This is a game with bastard mechanics

What part of that don't you understand

What do bastard mechanics have to do with a miller claim?

[Dunnstral]

What am I sidestepping?

[Dunnstral]

I think you have a decent chance of being scum and nothing has given me a reason to reconsider and I wouldn't be as happy lynching the other lynch targets at the moment

I don't think I lead on to much

[Dunnstral]

What am I sidestepping?

I don't think you believe in this lynch as much as you lead on which is why you can't bring anything up about it beyond 'i am not playing the same', and when I give you a reason for that you quote it back to me like that means anything lol

If it helps you seem pretty scummy to me right now with this defense and pointing at 'miller'

[Dunnstral]

I think you have a decent chance of being scum and nothing has given me a reason to reconsider and I wouldn't be as happy lynching the other lynch targets at the moment

I don't think I lead on to much

Right

Who else are you looking at

I'll figure that out on day 2

[Dunnstral]

If I had to lynch somebody else it would probably be Vifam

[Dunnstral]

You started bringing up 'bastard game' as if that meant anything for a miller claim

[Dunnstral]

Sample read list v1.0, keep in mind this is D1 reads, in no particular order

d1 Town if you disregard healthy paranoia/2nd guess

Dun/PP/RCS/Unwd/CC/RP

Leaning town, in general ppl I don't care too much d1, play is generally weaker than group 1, often times less content

Kid/vifam/bambi/sakura/raut

Need more info or read too swingy

Mariar/gamma/omo/chemist/wheme/primate

Active srs

a50/FTC

By the way PP replaced omo

Why is vifam a townlean?

[Dunnstral]

You started bringing up 'bastard game' as if that meant anything for a miller claim

That was to respond to bambi in which you apparently took it as an accusation made against you :roll:

So then what were you saying?

[Dunnstral]

Ooh woo, I'm a

rebel

just for kicks, yeah

[Dunnstral]

Catch up yet?

nah I’d rather interact with stuff as it comes and reread when necessary

So why are all your posts about how you need to 'catch up', and not interacting with stuff that is happening at the same time

[Dunnstral]

I'm townreading unwnd? Do you mean I'm not voting unwnd?

I thought you recently displayed suspicion on unwnd but didn't vote

Since when have you thought they were town?

[Dunnstral]

I just need to determine if what happened to me is reflexive or if it is targeted.

Keep in mind we have a flipped roleblocker and your slot wasn't exactly widely town-read. (Assuming you're softing you got role-blocked and not that you copped the claimed miller or something like that.)

I have no idea of knowing if I was Roleblocked, Dunn might be able to tell

Rc was a roleblocker and you're in a scummy slot

[Dunnstral]

I didn't do anything to you by the way

[Dunnstral]

Vote: Gamma Emerald

mostly for testing purposes when the next VC comes along, but also because I still don't believe they're town based on information.

And what are you on about?

[Dunnstral]

I just need to determine if what happened to me is

reflexive

or if it is targeted.

Are you saying you targeted me?

[Dunnstral]

1) They clearly implied that they targeted me
2) There may be additional ways for people to gain serum
3) You're telling Oversoul how to act if he's mafia to look like a braniac

[Dunnstral]

If you don't have a reason to out your role you shouldn't be outting it right now

[Dunnstral]

Yes its not bad to assume that maybe scum gets serum for MLs

I just need to determine if what happened to me is

reflexive

or if it is targeted.

Are you saying you targeted me?

Oversoul couldn't do anything since he had 0 serum @dun

Interesting progression

[Dunnstral]

And I also have reasons to believe I was probably targeted by RedPanda.

Go on..

[Dunnstral]

I don't think answering that question is to anyones benefit

It can be reasonably inferred that Oversoul is claiming to have targeted me by his use of the word reflexive and asking if I have any negative modifiers

[Dunnstral]

We only had 1 death over the night

[Dunnstral]

Psa: just because something bad happened to you at night, doesn't mean it was done by mafia

[Dunnstral]

I don't have any reason to believe that aside from what's in the thread

[Dunnstral]

I wasn't told that I got serum, do you know if the target is supposed to be notified?

[Dunnstral]

I did not get that +1 serum from Oversoul

[Dunnstral]

We should probably be lynching on wagon today in any case

[Dunnstral]

I haven't dismissed anyone or anything. Like I said, there are a lot of uncertain slots that could be scum.

But I'm confident that my lynch order kills enough of the scum early to give us enough serum to make the rest of the game easy.

Nah, my scum ability is to reset serum for everyone, since im 3rd in line thats, your above statement is untrue :/

Hopefully someone roleblocks you then :)

man i'm scared this lynch just doesn't go through.

whatever, someone can roleblock ck or something

VOTE: Unwnd

He didnt claim anything of the sort, he basically said he had the sample role claim

WHICH WAS LITERALLY AN ACTIVATED BP.

if you're town CK you're actually in a special tier of awful player.

Here are his actual softs by the way and not the little meme that obviously wasn't a soft, he roleblocked CK

Which narrows down our lynch pool for today

[Dunnstral]

Interesting. FWIW, my theory re: OS and Sakura was completely wrong, so that's

fun

. Also my vote on GE didn't go through, which should confirm to everyone at the very least that I a) have no serum, having not been on the lynch wagon, and b) had no way of gaining serum through additional sketchy means. Draw whatever conclusions from that you will.
So, now we just gotta work out what the frak is going on with our Milleriser or whatever the fuck Dunn is (why you would claim Miller but not the rest of your bullshit is beyond me, unless you're claiming it for convenience) and why they're not being open & honest w/us... oh and [redacted] is a fun little private puzzle I get to work out.

unvote

since it doesn't do anything anyway.

You're looking pretty scummy right now

[Dunnstral]

How about instead of looking for people changing alignments or third party, we try to lynch mafia?

Dunn is rauth town?

I would say yes

-----------

I'm not liking all of cloudkicker's wild speculation vs finding mafia who targeted oversoul, or establishing if we believe him without going on a tangent about a goo role or a self converting role who claimed for no reason

[Dunnstral]

Chemist continues to be useless

They need to die after the current situation is resolved

I do believe that this is a role that needs serum to function

VOTE: PenguinPower

[Dunnstral]

Scum are likely to make a big show of not having a vote to look town and also the milleriser bit doesn't seem genuine, like he doesn't seem to think I'm scum and lying but rather that I'm town and lying for some reason

[Dunnstral]

He was on the wagon and I think oversoul is telling the truth and that somebody with serum used that power

I didn't say he needed serum specifically

[Dunnstral]

I saw a bunch of goo speculation and self converter claims to have been converted speculation and tuned out

Primate idk. Might be scum actually. Wasn't on wagon and I think we should focus on wagon today really

I didn't call out penguin as needing serum specifically is what I meant

[Dunnstral]

I thought we were sort of in agreement that we were focusing on wagon today? Why is everyone on primate

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Primate

Do you think dunn and kid share the same corporation?

Kind of a random question huh?

[Dunnstral]

Then why do you assume it’s random? Thats what I thought

Because you were roleblocked and so wouldn't have any kind of info, actually

[Dunnstral]

Dunn/mariar/a50 needs to be pumping more content to help advance the game

I do?

We're voting on wagon today because that is our best chance of hitting scum, because even if we're wrong about everything there can still be scum on wagon, and if we're not wrong about everything there's more likely to be scum on wagon. If people are still voting primate because 'he's scummy' then it's time for them to get in here and maybe make an argument against lynching in the wagon

[Dunnstral]

In other news FTC appears to have been playing to his scum meta and the replace out there makes that more likely too.

[Dunnstral]

Please explain how it's untrue Tanaka

[Dunnstral]

The only reason I'd consider lynching Pisskop is because he's loud and disruptive enough to mess up the lynching on wagon thing we should be doing

[Dunnstral]

Tanaka if you're not going to discuss voting on-wagon after I'm told to basically carry town because they can't do it themselves and I can't just take it easy then I don't want to talk to you - simple as that

[Dunnstral]

You can't think that FTC/pisskpop has been playing scummy and having "pisskpop is disruptive" as your sole reason to consider lynching him.

I can do whatever I want

We're lynching on the day 1 wagon today

[Dunnstral]

is it guaranteed to be scum in the wagon?

Oversoul claims to have been turned into a miller (and his night action was supposedly blocked too)

If we believe him, then it's likely that was an ability that used serum, which a person on the day 1 wagon would have

[Dunnstral]

But Rcs themself seemed really townie to me

[Dunnstral]

It's not a hopeless game

[Dunnstral]

[LYNCH]

unwnd-

[10] Dunnstral 802, Bambi Jay 877, PenguinPower 1278, Fred the Cat 1319, Rautherdir 1620, Almost50 1706, Celestial Coordinates 1816, Sakura Hana 1831, Cloudkicker 1834, unwnd 1841

[Dunnstral]

So those should be our choices for a lynch today, Celestial Coordinates and unwnd are dead which leaves 8 people, of course there are people I don't want lynched in this list.

Wait a minute

Fred the Cat WAS on the lynch, I thought he wasn't

VOTE: Pisskop

Also I'm 99% sure FTC was Creature, I've literally seen creature use that exact FTC avatar on his profile. Obviously no proof but yeah, and his posting style was really obvious

[Dunnstral]

Eventually we're going to have to kill Chemist due to sheer uselessness and waste of space

But actually though, the constant prod dodging and then pretending to contribute when called out is actually really scummy and he can go at any time

[Dunnstral]

What are you guys talking about? Who is a d2 gate claimed doc?

[Dunnstral]

I'm not believing pisskop's claim right now

[Dunnstral]

I'm a roleblocker though

Were you on oversoul or pisskop?

If not it doesn't matter who you were on

[Dunnstral]

I haven't dismissed anyone or anything. Like I said, there are a lot of uncertain slots that could be scum.

But I'm confident that my lynch order kills enough of the scum early to give us enough serum to make the rest of the game easy.

Nah, my scum ability is to reset serum for everyone, since im 3rd in line thats, your above statement is untrue :/

Hopefully someone roleblocks you then :)

man i'm scared this lynch just doesn't go through.

whatever, someone can roleblock ck or something

VOTE: Unwnd

He didnt claim anything of the sort, he basically said he had the sample role claim

WHICH WAS LITERALLY AN ACTIVATED BP.

if you're town CK you're actually in a special tier of awful player.

Here are his actual softs by the way and not the little meme that obviously wasn't a soft, he roleblocked CK

Which narrows down our lynch pool for today

By the way I believe CC (dead roleblocker) targeted CK with his night action

[Dunnstral]

literally trouble-shooting, let's kill someone

[Dunnstral]

Why wouldn't you claim that right away Bambi?

Waiting until after he explains everything makes you look suspicious

[Dunnstral]

Thank you all for coming to Summit 2180. My name is Thalia Coleman, Chief Executive Officer of Iustitia's artillery division.

Does this guy send out letters too then pisskop?

[Dunnstral]

i'd defend dunn with my life at this point if it came down to that

[Dunnstral]

I don't understand why you outted as bodyguard by the way. What was the point of that?

[Dunnstral]

Oversoul what company were you from?

[Dunnstral]

Nevermind you claimed Genx

I do think companies are related to role

[Dunnstral]

We don't need more claims

[Dunnstral]

We don't need to "sort things out"

We need to lynch s omebody

[Dunnstral]

No...

[Dunnstral]

*we need to lynch somebody who is likely to be aligned with a malevolent faction

[Dunnstral]

When did the mods start searching for a replacement for Chemist?

This is the first I've heard of that

[Dunnstral]

pisskop isn't simotech. get off his wagon.

Well unless you can debunk what i have against PK, you can bet im never getting off his wagon.

• His predecesor being a Creature Alt
  
• His predecessor playing to their scum meta
  
• Himself not playing to his self-proclaimed town meta

Yes I do. I've activated my neighborhood already. It doesn't work on simotech.

Alright then

UNVOTE: pisskop

Who do you think we should be looking at?

[Dunnstral]

think

VOTE: ap is fine

surprised os unvoted, kind of tr it?

This isn't role call

[Dunnstral]

Yes I'm masons with Rauth

Here's the deal with the miller: I fake claimed knowing that worse case scenario I had a mason claim to back up on, if anyone else claimed miller I was ready to treat them as town, also I wanted to see Bambi's reaction since they just said they townread me and stuff about voting a miller. I thought Rauth's mason soft was a little heavy handed and so I didn't want to ever retract the miller claim or it would be 'obvious' that we were masons.

No I'm not 'miller goo' - Tanako targeted me with a bodyguard and they're fine

[Dunnstral]

Taking their word for it and I believe it

[Dunnstral]

I'm sketched out with the amount of investigative claims already