Micro 880: A Normal Game - Game Over!

[OkaPoka]

they obviously didnt plan on fakeclaiming/gambitting today because all vts baby

[OkaPoka]

oh i c

[OkaPoka]

y would u do that tho? vs pretending scum has a rb

rb gives ur team more room to work with in fakeclaim power

[OkaPoka]

ok skitter now u stop scumreading me because im town now

[OkaPoka]

anyone ready for some spicy takes

[OkaPoka]

skitter why do i leave lich alive here ?

[OkaPoka]

skitter dont be dumb why would town lynch lich if nobody claims a good role

id have to prepare fakeclaims and if im the one asking for a massclaim instantly into d2 and nobody is gambitting here then ?

[OkaPoka]

i think scum with an rb block tl probably and kill {whoever else}

and if kop is town mailman why dont they block kop and kill tl

this scenario town has zero confirmed anything

there is an obvious answer here

[OkaPoka]

really skitter

really

[OkaPoka]

like you cant be serious

what scum would choose to decide meh

I dont feel like killing the town investigative who hard suspects me and will probably vote me

nah

im going to kill someone else and not come up with a plan to put doubt into the validity of their claim so they can sit on me all day as i drown

[OkaPoka]

yes but i can also kill him and town has zero confirmed slots

tl is basically confirmed with the claims we have

z
z
z

[OkaPoka]

okay i need a third opinion

does anyone else understand what i mean when i say that its bad for me to leave lich alive here?

[OkaPoka]

temp do u understand why id go

pew pew on u

[OkaPoka]

lich why would i highly prefer if u were dead rather than alive if im trying to live

[OkaPoka]

lich do you understand why you being alive is detrimental to me being alive?

[OkaPoka]

lich do you understand that even if I could make you unable to do anything at night, you being alive during the day is highly detrimental to me being alive during the day

[OkaPoka]

Cool so you agree that you being alive makes me living harder?

[OkaPoka]

Okay lich step 2.

Do you understand why you getting NK'd n2 does not make me more suspect?

[OkaPoka]

yes i know me scum would do it

but do you understand why that me killing you does not necessarily implicate me?

[OkaPoka]

as in if you were the nk people wouldnt be like ok only okapoka would make that kill

[OkaPoka]

Lich:

If I kill you, nobody blinks an eye because you are a claimed Traffic Analyst (aka you can find scum with some error but you know who communicates). Its like killing a cop claim, everyone will see that kill and be like "ok yeah that makes sense!"

And of course the question is, why aren't you dead?

Turns out scum have some from of roleblocking.

So therefore scum can mitigate the nightplay aspect of your play, however that still leaves an issue for scum being that you are unrestricted in dayplay. Then we mass claim and nobody claims anything strong thus making you an essential IC. Basically me pushing for a massclaim and nobody else claiming something makes you an IC. Leaving you even stronger dayplay wise right? The only way I could restrict your dayplay by not killing you is setting up a strategy that would probably be me or my scumbuddy fakeclaiming a role to make sure there isn't room for the either of us to exist. But since I pushed for the massclaim and nobody went for a claim, we know for a fact that I did not set up any counterplay to your dayplay potential thus leaving you as an unrestricted IC-lite. And since nobody went for a claim, we know for a fact that scum didn't have something planned to restrict your dayplay either or were to scared to do so for whatever reasons. This means they were okay with leaving an IC-lite on the table.

Okay so the question we have to ask ourselves is why would scum be okay with leaving an IC-lite on the table. What gain or push to wincondition does giving town an IC have? Because scum could've killed you and left us with an all VT + mailman claim tomorrow and since they have a roleblocking ability of sorts we play 5v2 mountainous essentially (which is very scumsided). But they chose not to, meaning that they felt that they would win more with your being IC-alive rather than CFJ being unknown alignment alive.

And where does that leave us?

Coming out of day 1 I was the biggest wagon twice. We bounced around a few times, landed on you, skitter, and finally lynching dunn. However the thing is, dunn is dead, you are now an IC. Therefore the biggest targets of yesterday to today are me and skitter by VCA. But then we need to take into consideration another thing, you townread the absolute fuck out of skitter and you are IC-lite. You and skitter scumread the absolute fuck out me and you are IC-lite. I think its pretty obvious that I've been setup to be the designated lynch today and force us into 3v2 lylo tomorrow. This game in its current state with an IC scumreading me benefits whoever would want me dead, and of course scum me does not want me dead. This may also hurt skitter so skitter might actually be town here, but we'll see. However its kind of important to note that a dead CFJ means that there won't be the question of why isn't skitter dead at lylo because ML me and nk you we have 3v2 lylo and killing you is still open as the "mechanical low info play" so town doesn't have the paranoia.

pedit: popcorning is over Lich, everyone else claimed VT. Kop claimed mailman to CFJ. Also hope that clears up my thoughts a bit.

[OkaPoka]

Here's what I think are some possible scenarios.

1) The shortsighted theory:
Scum did not think this through being that town's best play would be a massclaim today so they hoped that today would be prime me vs you, TvT. They roleblocked you probably thinking you would hit me, somebody would suggest I'm mafia ascetic maybe but the point is there would be some form of doubt in your claim and we would go off on each other. But when massclaim, the correct choice, came they had no choice, they don't want to be outed yet because that's a high risk play.

2) 3v2 Lylo play.
In this scenario they know that you are going to become IC-lite and feel that you being alive would be there best bet because you would push me first and they could have a reasonable shot at lynching me forcing us into lylo tomorrow after you are nk. We are then left with a lylo of Sleepless,nsg,skitter,firebringer,kop. There are some slots in there that if town, its over.

3) CFJ is a magician
This scenario ignores you completely. Scum have a roleblocker and can neutralize you. They kill CFJ because CFJ is the biggest threat as a town leading figure to how scumteam wants to play it out. CFJ represents slow paced, analysis, step-by-step play and will call out anyone without derptunneling. They probably feel that CFJ might just be able to flip on them at any moment and lead town through a lylo situation. RN deepwolves will not be paranoia'd in the sense of "why aren't they dead yet" because you are the next NK. Then it enters scenario 2 of 3v2 lylo because they don't care, they aren't the lynch today.

[OkaPoka]

Here are some other stuff we know.

I've said repeatedly that skitter and temp lich are antialigned, skitter had decent backing yesterday in a pool of OkaPoka 1138, Firebringer111 279 979, Kop 860 and if you count Sleepless Assassin's post about not liking skitter 658 she seems like prime lynch candidate. CFJ has also said repeatedly and implied of his distaste for a skitter lynch removing one of skitter's possible allies. However there is the thing of killing Lich would remove skitter's strongest ally, so perhaps its not as clear cut as it is. However a Firebringer kill would be much preferable for skitter to endgame this, as it would leave skitter's alliance of skitter,cfj,lich up against a possible me,sleepless,kop and it doesn't take a genius to realize the latter three are destined to fail. There is some backing to a skitter scum theory being that keeping Lich alive rather than CFJ would probably extend her lifetime by one phase at the least because of the strength of Lich's TR.

But thinking along those lines, if scum thought ahead and saw that Lich was not going to be lynched, they might've sensed another incoming conflict, me vs skitter. I "should" have the larger alliance to tackle skitter and get her lynched. Leaving us with a lylo of me,nsg,firebringer,sleepless,kop. Which benefits Firebringer and Sleepless the most in the sense that I'll predictably go after nsg/kop most of the time as I have seemed to been pocketed by those two.

And well I guess maybe because I townread Firebringer. But sleepless could hypothetically use me as a proxy to get him into LyLo which isn't the worst plan because I have been a rabid dog this game and sleepless has been voting with me, even posturing a bit.

I do wonder why Kop even had to post a thought about debating whether to give mail to Lich/CFJ, it was pretty clear Lich was supposed to be the NK. It almost feels ~ingenuine. I also don't know why he thought getting Dunn to claim would be terribad given that a Traffic Analyst claimed already and would make the setup ridiculously unbalanced if a similar tier power was claimed. What I do think is possible is that killing CFJ might be the best play to make Kop's claim more reasonable in the scenario that he cannot give mail. Of course claiming mailman in a Traffic Analyst game is probably truth, but what if he cannot multitask and scum have no multitaskers with a roleblocker? In this scenario if they kill Lich with roleblocker and Kop gives mail, Kop is instantly incriminated if the roleblocker ever flips and if Kop kills and roleblocker dicks off, then nobody will have mail and he would have to say "oh I was probably roleblocked then" creating suspicion in his claim. This scenario, its reasonable that Kop would mail CFJ and its also reasonable that scum kill CFJ if they have a roleblocker, but I think its slightly suboptimal that they didn't just kill Lich and block Kop for maximum paranoia and if I can think of that like within minutes, then scum would have too. Most likely.

[OkaPoka]

Looking at some vcs:

If you can trust I am green.

DAY 1 VC #13

Oversoul (0) -

OkaPoka

(4) (L-1) - skitter30 (191), Oversoul (404),

callforjudgement

(417),

TemporalLich

(425)

Dunnstral

(0) -
Kop (0) -
skitter30 (2) - Firebringer (279),

Dunnstral

(587)
Firebringer (0) -

TemporalLich

(2) - Sleepless Assassin (158),

OkaPoka

(164)
Not Voting (1) - SweetNSassy

DAY 1 VC #24

Oversoul (0) -

OkaPoka

(2) - skitter30 (191),

TemporalLich

(425)

Dunnstral

(0) -
Kop (2) - Oversoul (1028),

callforjudgement

(1051)
skitter30 (1) -

Dunnstra

l (587)
Firebringer (0) -

TemporalLich

(4) (L-1) - Sleepless Assassin (158), Kop (1106),

OkaPoka

(1107), Firebringer (1108)
Not Voting (0) -

DAY 1 VC #25 (LYNCH)

Oversoul (1) -

Dunnstral

(1132)

OkaPoka

(1) - skitter30 (191)

Dunnstral

(5) (HAMMER @ 1147) -

callforjudgement

(1139), Oversoul (1142),

OkaPoka

(1145),

TemporalLich

(1146), Kop (1147)
Kop (0) -
skitter30 (0) -
Firebringer (0) -

TemporalLich

(2) - Sleepless Assassin (158), Firebringer (1108)
Not Voting (0) -

[OkaPoka]

I'm sure the reason why we have decided to slow things down is because we want to be nice to our backup mod Skygazer, but I'm sure she can handle an increase in posting.

[OkaPoka]

KOP ReADS

[OkaPoka]

asdFAasdf!@#!@# READ GAME! IF HAVE QUESTION ASK ME !

[OkaPoka]

I PUT MANY EFFORT INTO MAKE POST AND PLAY GAME PLEASE PUT MANY EFFORT INTO READ POST AND PLAY GAME!

[OkaPoka]

SKITTER STOP SCUMREAD ME I AM IC NUMBER TWO

[OkaPoka]

hahaha i see why cfj said we need a tracker

he made this setup

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78097

[OkaPoka]

(its TA + tracker in 9p )

[OkaPoka]

SKITTER IF ME SCUM ME NO CARE ABOUT YOU READS BECAUSE YOU EZ LYNCH

[OkaPoka]

LOOK AT OLD GAMES IN MINI NORMAL ARCHIVE OF 9P GAMES TO SEE WHETHER SCUM MAILMAN MIGHT MAKE SENSE BUT IDK

SKITTER BE SCUMREAD BY FIREBRINGER AND SLEEPLESS ASSASSIN AND KOP ALREADY. ME CAN BE FOURTH PERSON WITH MY ANTI ALIGNMENT COMMENTS. FOUR IS LYNCH. SKITTER ALMOST DIE YESTERDAY.

[OkaPoka]

READ GAME NSG

[OkaPoka]

THEN YOU SEE SKITTER LYNCH IS FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

FOR SCUM MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[OkaPoka]

FIREBRINGER WANT TO LYNCH SKITTER FOR THE LULZ

[OkaPoka]

i'm not sure i'm seeing the crux of your point here? are you saying you would be scumreading skitter as scum because you could just get her lynched?

SURE!

[OkaPoka]

SKITTER I HAVE REALIZED YOU WILL NEVER TOWNREAD ME

[OkaPoka]

KOP I C U ONLINE GIVE READSSSSS

[OkaPoka]

NSG GIVE THOUGHTS ON THE_WORST AND OVERSOUL IN CATCHUP

[OkaPoka]

okay well i was about to say that i was townreaidng oka because in general i tend to townread when people do research like that and also because i think most of his play this day has been trying to engage skitter regarding her scumread on him which i think is a pretty good towntell even for good scum players

and all of that remains true, but i kind of dislike those two posts

NSG THIS IS ALL THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST LIKE 20 MINUTES

WHAT ABOUT GAME HISTORY THINGS THAT HAPPENED D1

[OkaPoka]

SKITTER IM NOT EVEN SOLVING ANYMORE

[OkaPoka]

I HAVE REALIZED MY TRUE CALLING IS GETTING PEOPLE TO MAKE POSTS THAT MEAN SOMETHING IN THIS GAME BECAUSE THAT IS APPARENTLY VERY HARD TO DO

[OkaPoka]

FIREBRINGER YOU ARE NOT EXCUSED FROM MAKING POSTS TODAY JUST BECAUSE I LIKE YOU

[OkaPoka]

SKITTER SINCE THAT POST THE ENTIRE JEFFREY EPSTEIN SCANDAL HAS UNFOLDED AND BASICALLY WRAPPED UP AND NOW WE HAVE A NEW SCANDAL THE CONCERNS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

[OkaPoka]

IM NOT SAYING ITS IRRELEVANT IM SAYING YOU ARE IGNORING EVERYTHING EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[OkaPoka]

I AM TOWN PLEASE TOWNREAD ME

[OkaPoka]

IM NOT SAYING ITS IRRELEVANT IM SAYING YOU ARE IGNORING EVERYTHING EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

*ABOUT ME TO BE CLEAR BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING TO SAY SORRY I DONT UNDERSTAND

[OkaPoka]

i'm talking about your original scumread on tl feeling fake

I CANT STOP THIS FEELING

DEEP INSIDE OF ME

[OkaPoka]

THE FACT THAT IM TOWNNNN

STOP SAYING IF I CAN THINK OF IT IT MEANS I AM SCUM BECAUSE THAT MEANS I PLANNED OUT THIS GENIUS SCENARIO TO MAKE ME LOOK TOWNIE

IT HURTS ME MORE THAN IT HELPS FOR ME TO LEAVE TEMPORAL LICH ALIVE

ESPECIALLY WITH HOW THE GAME EVENTS UNFOLDED WHICH I FORCED BY THE WAY

[OkaPoka]

I AGREE IT WAS AWFUL WE CAN TALK ABOUT MY THOUGHT PROCESS POST GAME BUT IM TOWNNNN

[OkaPoka]

maybe i'm tunneled idk

i acknowledge it could be a possibility

i still think ur day1 interactions with tl were awful

i also don't know where else scum is so

THIS IS PROBLEM LET US RESOLVE THIS PROBLEM PLEASE ASSUME IM TOWN SO YOUR SCUMREADS ARENT OKA PARTNER

[OkaPoka]

SKITTER WHY DO YOU THINK I AM COMMUNING WITH YOU AND NOT PULLING A TUNNEL RD 2

I THINK KOP IS MOST SCUMMY

SLEEPLESS ASSASSIN WILL HAVE TO BE LYNCHED AS WELL

NSG SLOT SUCKS ASS TOO

[OkaPoka]

I DONT THINK IT WAS A TOWNSLIP

IT SOUNDS LIKE HE LOOKED UP THE ROLE ON THE WIKI AND DECIDED TO ROLL WITH IT

MAYBE IT WAS A TOWNSLIP BUT I THINK ITS JUST SUCH A NICHE ROLE THAT IT WAS ??? AND SO HE LOOKED IT UP

SKITTER I THINK IF I WERE SCUM I WOULD TRY AND BE MORE SUBTLE ABOUT TRYING TO GET YOU TO TOWNREAD ME INSTEAD OF DIRECTLY TALKING TO YOU IN ALL CAPS TO TOWNREAD ME

[OkaPoka]

MAYBE HES TOWN ACTUALLY I CAN SEE THAT TOWNSLIP MORE

[OkaPoka]

At best Dunn was ic and that is a shitty town power to have one ic in a 9p

[OkaPoka]

This was an nrg approved game if you can find me a no town power nrg micro I'll reconsider

[OkaPoka]

Ic + 6 vt vs 2 maf has an ev of 31%

[OkaPoka]

nsg u dunn with catchup?

[OkaPoka]

this game is very lonely

[OkaPoka]

im going to tunnel someone

[OkaPoka]

u being dead will send this game from purgatory to hell

[OkaPoka]

i just want sweet reads from a nectar tree

[OkaPoka]

asdFAasdf!@#!@# READ GAME! IF HAVE QUESTION ASK ME !

Can you walk me through temps thought process behind that post he made?

Temp can you walk me through why you think youre an IC?

try reading where claiming started, I claimed Traffic Analyst and got a NR on Firebringer, and the claims from other people seem to support this.

So because you claimed a role mixed with because you say so. Youre not confirmed.

temp is basically an ic; town doesnt have enough power otherwise

Dunns role is pretty strong in a micro.

i assume you mean temp being an ic

i can just give you a rundown on temp being an ic

this game is a normal game which means it was approved by the nrg which creates games that should ahve 40~60% town ev

now at best dunn is an ic but he in reality is a worse version of an ic

mailman is meaningless

so in a world of temp fakeclaim and everyone else truth claiming we basically have a

IC + 6 VT vs 2 Goon setup ( i assume its 2 mafia otherwise wtf)

and the ev for that game is 30.7% town win which is underpowered for town

source: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... t#9P_8_-_1

so traffic analyst being an investigative role should ~theoretically give more town power

enough to ~theoretically balance the game

because if temp is lying then town is way too underpowered to make this a fair game

[OkaPoka]

actually it literally cannot be one sucm because i couldnt find one scum games on mini normal archives and i dont think 1 scum games constitute as a mafia game

so yeah its 2 scum and to balance that out you need more pwoer than just a weaker ic, TA fills that role and its the only claim that can push this game to a balanced state

therefore temp is confirmed town basically unless we have a hard gambitter in which case come out now?

[OkaPoka]

hmm

maybe oversoul townslipped when he thought skitter + temp were mason mason given scum rb?

i don't see many micro normals in the realm of a balance wit ha mason+mason+role that needs to be rb'd vs roleblocker goon

[OkaPoka]

viewtopic.php?p=7261113#p7261113

9p

mason mason mailman + 4 vt

vs

rolecop
goon

[OkaPoka]

i mean technically it would be balanced i think but still

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: sleepless assassin

maybe scum team is this +firebringer which can explain why lich wasnt killed idk

[OkaPoka]

i think scum skitter tries harder than this to do something because right now its underwhelming and i dont see many partners for skitter that would allow her to just want to float by with

[OkaPoka]

I don't like how SA is throwing shade at Temp about his role. That's the exact thing scum would have exactly planned on by roleblocking him and keeping him alive, to create that doubt of 'why is a PR still alive' over a mailman.

I mean I don't believe Lich claim all that much either. Is that shade throwing too?

tell me how a game without lich's claim passes nrg for balance

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: sleepless assassin

maybe scum team is this +firebringer which can explain why lich wasnt killed idk

is it funny that I have been doubting my townread on u as well? cause I am starting to think skitter was right.

yes it funny

[OkaPoka]

Do you avoid those setups intentionally? Thats about the only way that seems possible.

Considering this is my proper game on this site in god knows how long, I genuinely play open games more, so yeah I don't know a great deal about these setups. I was only presuming that there would be 2 PR's with 5 VT's and 2 mafia roles.

open games require less town power aka closed games like these tend to have stronger town prs than open games

[OkaPoka]

Half of deadline is going to be wasted at this point please play the game and vote someone

[OkaPoka]

maybe i should BoP someone and call it a day

[OkaPoka]

maybe skitter is scum because she seems so apathetic to putting together a solve and skitter doesnt strike me as the type to be apathetic to solving

[OkaPoka]

this isn't a townslip

yeah probably not ~

[OkaPoka]

wanna work with me

[OkaPoka]

why dont you want to vote SA?

[OkaPoka]

really? feels like he was just following me on temp so im kinda trying to see if he has any other reads

[OkaPoka]

maybe at the start he was more natural with original reads but tinfoil is me getting hard pocketed by SA + firebringer

nsg isnt a bad vote tho, her read on me was kinda shit tbh lol

i kinda liked oversoul tho?

[OkaPoka]

i mean oversoul's entrance with "oka is scum i have divined it" with an l1 vote was pretty gutsy for scum!oversoul

[OkaPoka]

nvm it wasnt lol

[OkaPoka]

it went

skitter

to skitter oversoul

to skitter oversoul cfj

to skitter oversoul cfj lich

[OkaPoka]

i can confirm nsg has low efforted town games before ~kinda

but this game is is dead so and isnt exactly hard to keep up with

[OkaPoka]

do townslips really exist tho

i mean it might +town points for him but like that thing could've been faked in the sense that

reasonable explanation:

->gets mailman, is slightly confused by what it means then goes on wiki to look it up sees that it might be town only for +town points so exposes info

[OkaPoka]

lock town lich
lock town kop
you locktown yourself

you are left with <me,firebringer,nsg,sa>

whats your solve skitter?

[OkaPoka]

ur pairing of me and nsg makes me sad then

wanna do an iso skim together and try preflip associatives on nsg slot?

[OkaPoka]

You Did Tells™ but also the way you're pressuring me to engage has that "BRING IT ON" energy which takes pretty bold scum--not outside your range necessarily just unlikely to come from scum you. your first push on cfj felt like a serious stretch but I think you've fixed it in a believable way and I like your push on Oka

I haven't like read everything but assuming this is singleball your postcount is usually also town!you

not weighted yet as I don't have enough reads

first in depth read

probably clears a t_w/skitter team

[OkaPoka]

{tw}
{skitter}
{oka, dunn}
{cfj} former townlean needs reevaluation

no read on:
SweetNSassy
Sleepless Assassin
Firebringer
TemporalLich

okay question for the philsophers

do you think scum put null reads and no reads on their scumbuddies? i know ive caught newbscum teams with that tell but t_w isnt noob

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: sweetnsassy

{tw}
{skitter}
{oka, dunn}
{cfj} former townlean needs reevaluation

no read on:
SweetNSassy
Sleepless Assassin
Firebringer
TemporalLich

i think this is interesting

[OkaPoka]

CFJ’s play is almost too analytical for me. Hmm. I do appreciate his forthright nature though.

Town reads on Skitter, Firebringer
Town lean on Dunstral and CFJ
Scum lean on Sleepless and Sassy. Not sure if this is because of their awol nature though
Scum read on Oka

oversoul's iso points towards an oversoul + SnS team i think

his hard tr of cfj might point to him suggesting cfj kill and dipping?

[OkaPoka]

this game could really use

someone other than the familiar faces pushing a lynch

idk oversoul still feels townie to me tho i dont like nsg postings, ill check SA next

oversoul did that last minute look at my townbloc here which is kinda townie

[OkaPoka]

like unless oversoul planned to rep out during the night and posted that townbloc for cred knowing that it wouldnt be held accountable against him which is kinda really tactically scummy i think that makes him townie

because posting a lets poe this down and win this kinda locks you out of lots of options to play

he leaves out SA n SnS which are lynchbait slots but

Skitter + temp
CFJ + Firebringer
Okapoka + me

I think this game just PoE’d itself to victory

still its a ballsy play to leave yourself little wiggle room for scum!oversoul

[OkaPoka]

ty

do u think we should use the newb scum rep out theory here

bc i think SA indicated that this game was SnS's idea

then again reading kop's 'townslip' posts in context does seem like a townslip but hm

[OkaPoka]

at worst we lynch whoever is unreadable and hasnt been townie today

and if we lynch scum we chillin and if we lynch town hopefully the fact that its lylo might get people to play

[OkaPoka]

Kop have you been paying attention to the game?

[OkaPoka]

Really I've lost track of most of the slots because you've been trying to make the game all about TemporalLich (and thus indirectly making it all about you). I'd like to evaluate more widely, but the heavy focus on one thing has effectively given town slots a reason and scum slots an excuse not to interact with anyone else, making town and scum behaviour more similar. (Dunnstral, for example, has been acting in a way I'd consider scummy in most gamestates but maybe not in this one; he's been posting only self-justification and information in the last 250 posts or so, but I can see that happening as town when the gamestate is overwhelming you.)

I'm not at the point in the game where I can attempt a full solve; there's too much missing information. (Really, it's hard to get anywhere in terms of full solves until you have a scumflip.)

For what its worth, though, I think that if you're scum, Sleepless Assassin is the most likely partner (#655 is possibly a scumslip, I vaguely remember having seen that exact slip before but can't remember where; the scumread on TemporalLich in #674 also seems a bit like an echo of you, although it's hard to be certain that that's the actual cause). Either way, he's probably unlikely to ever finish catching up at this point given the apparent work restrictions and the speed of the thread, and I haven't seen much to think he's scum other than associatives.

Can anyone see the scum slip within that post #655 CFJ quoted? I don't see it personally.

Nonetheless, this pushes Oversoul back below OkaPoka for my strongest scumread (also, unlike the worst, Oversoul is likely to become more readable as the game goes on, which is a good reason not to lynch there D1).

What happened to this? Has Oversoul become more readable?

I was assuming that Oversoul's inactivity was just a flake, but I just checked rather than assuming, and he was in fact active elsewhere on site, something which rather increases the chance he's scum here (over what I was thinking). That said, he's in a lot of games at the moment, so I suspect he isn't paying much attention to this one, making the tell a bit weaker. Nonetheless, thanks for the reminder; my default is normally to assume that people are town and thus my scumread on someone tends to fade over time if they aren't posting anything scummy.

He hasn't become that much more readable yet due to the lack of recent postinig, but it should become clearer in time.

Re #995, "unlikely lynch" is pretty important when deciding where to push in the last 24 hours when someone is V/LA. Lynching somebody is almost certainly better than lynching nobody, and you also need to take into account the time it'll take to sort out a claim.

CFJ was warming to the oversoul scum read here.

it might be something that was supposed to be for a pt

[OkaPoka]

I think Id be willing to vote north today

why?

[OkaPoka]

what was scummy about the worst's play?

[OkaPoka]

okay sleepless its not temp

trust me

[OkaPoka]

So if you remove any idea of a temp scum team

its north + ?

[OkaPoka]

what dont you like about skitter

[OkaPoka]

but this game is a normal game so its always singleball

[OkaPoka]

tmi

[OkaPoka]

like unnecessary detail for sake of game

could have just said ur town bc of postcount but its a misdirection in the sense that we are going to ask him about singleball differenec instead of why postcount means ur town

probably should've asked him about it before but i was lazy

[OkaPoka]

this game is never multiball tho

[OkaPoka]

do u have an idea what t_w was tlaking about in postcount makes u town

[OkaPoka]

explain

[OkaPoka]

i didnt get that impression in pyp

[OkaPoka]

@mod deadline extension if nsg gets replaced :3 ?

[OkaPoka]

You Did Tells™ but also the way you're pressuring me to engage has that "BRING IT ON" energy which takes pretty bold scum--not outside your range necessarily just unlikely to come from scum you. your first push on cfj felt like a serious stretch but I think you've fixed it in a believable way and I like your push on Oka

I haven't like read everything but assuming this is singleball your postcount is usually also town!you

not weighted yet as I don't have enough reads

is this tw scumposting or townposting skitteR?

[OkaPoka]

reads are something like:

{tl}
{fire, kop*}
{sa}
{nsg}
{oka}

i'm a little surprised to see SA where you have him. i skimmed a few ISOs and one of my first thoughts was "oh, SA looks different than he did as scum in 9:12". granted, this is me doing my patent pending thing of relying on months old meta for my reads, but still. i know not everyone obsessively clings to the past like i do, but any thoughts on him here as compared to there? (or if you have a more recent game that i don't know about)

can you explain the firebringer read?

do u have any reads ?

not many, and only townreads so far.

okay well i was about to say that i was townreaidng oka because in general i tend to townread when people do research like that and also because i think most of his play this day has been trying to engage skitter regarding her scumread on him which i think is a pretty good towntell even for good scum players

and all of that remains true, but i kind of dislike those two posts

what about these nsg posts

[OkaPoka]

ngl im getting bored and dont know what to talk about as we wait for nsg lul

do u have any suggestions

[OkaPoka]

is me voting nsg going to motivate her to post or motivate her to replace out

[OkaPoka]

if anyone leads a push in the next 12 hours ill love you

[OkaPoka]

So both Kop and SA want to vote nsg, interesting.

[OkaPoka]

ok firebringer now that game is over pls obv town for us

[OkaPoka]

Nah half the deadline is gone tell me what reads have you developed on the rest of the slots just from today?

[OkaPoka]

My expectations of u is to read the game lul

[OkaPoka]

nsg r u ready to engage

[OkaPoka]

all of town has given u a third of this day so far to catchup so plz

make us proud

[OkaPoka]

and this was after we deadline yolo lynched a friendly neighborizer

maybe we've learned nothing nsg but maybe we are just hearts of gold

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: firebringer

[OkaPoka]

smh u didnt ask why sleepless assassin when i voted u and u ask why firebringer bruh

[OkaPoka]

^ i know thats not an answer but bruh

[OkaPoka]

every hour u dont post nsg

my expectations of u rise

at first i was like yay replacement

but now im like omg this is going to be the perfect solve if she's town

[OkaPoka]

i c u nsg

ur going to wait until the last second

and then drop the holy manifesto singlehandedly nabbing the entire scumteam in one fell swoop with the strongest case in the history of cases

im proud of u

genius play

this is all a charade to bait out the real scum so u can write up the genius case

[OkaPoka]

who says my tr on firebringer disappeared

im just sad that he isnt doing anything today

but like that applies to everyone

i just hold him to a higher standard

[OkaPoka]

please cast votes

like please

if you arent voting your next post better be a vote cast

because we are burning deadline

[OkaPoka]

dw skitter u can be protected from all lynches just because you are playing this game

[OkaPoka]

i have an idea

in exactly 12 hours

me skitter and lich will all vote the same person (putting them at l1)

lich chooses who we vote

so town it up in 12 hours or ur being l1'd

[OkaPoka]

we should get one more and just lol lynch someone who isnt posting in 24 hours

no questions just a fuck you, you arent playing

[OkaPoka]

r we ok with these conditions?

[OkaPoka]

lich the point is its obscure

literally pick whoever you want

there is no process or questioning of thought process, if people dont play we just random lynch basically

ofc we cant prove it be random, but since you are conf town, you can choose whether you want it to be random or not

[OkaPoka]

hopefully townies who see this post will realize its incentive to read and play the game

[OkaPoka]

basically if i were vig this is the point where id say play the game or i shoot randomly

[OkaPoka]

im not sure u get the pt but ok whatever

firebringer do something i guess

also nsg

what are you doing

[OkaPoka]

well skitter ive tried the method of asking them to play

[OkaPoka]

smh i waited 4 days for this

[OkaPoka]

this case is really lame and im disappointed

i can case myself better than this

[OkaPoka]

i sat on lich for a majority of d1 and didnt actually push him, i let the cards fall before doing anything

i didnt bother sorting sleepless assassin and instead rubbed his back for sheeping me d1

i tried to force skitter to vote with me by threatening to lynch her

ive spammed skitter and lich as anti aligned and ive continued to tr skitter and lich lmao

[OkaPoka]

because nsg is being lazy and her read on me is only d2

she hasnt referenced d1 at all

[OkaPoka]

nsg have u read d1

[OkaPoka]

okay nsg imma be a pal and hook you up with some resources to case me with because i want to accelerate this

viewtopic.php?p=11070076#p11070076

start here and read a bit, maybe go back a bit if you missed a few things


then you can look at my iso
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=80162&user_select%5B%5D=23817, see a bunch of meh posts, and skim until you see a nice wall post

so barring the first rvs vote from lich (it was on me)

VOTE: Dunnstral

L-1

Hey guys, glad to be a member of the town once again

This also being 86 isn't a good sign.

this ends up being his only sr at the time when dunn is biggest wagon

VOTE: OkaPoka

Maybe, but a scumread is still a scumread

this happens after i unvote dunn which ends the momentum there
so he starts a wagon on me!
after cfj cases me and skitter approves

VOTE: Firebringer

That vote doesn't get with me, and neither does your Oka townread tbh.

this happens after my wagon weakens again during basically an era of nobody has a solid wagon
and skitter srs firebringer here as well ~recently

I townread Oversoul. Very good catch up and logic.

Therefore I will change my vote.

VOTE: OkaPoka

L-1

and back to me at l1


like pushing wagons is townie and all but i think its a bit suspect to change your reads so your top sr always matches your vote

like his votes goes from dunn->oka->firebringer->oka
but his srs line up the exact same, check his iso he puts firebringer at top of sr list

maybe coincidence but me doubt

then you start reading until im basically tapped out in thread

then you can look at eod stuff

my interactions with skitter and sleepless assassin

[OkaPoka]

the biggest point against me made by skitter d1 is that she felt my opening read against lich was fake and forced and my following case was all catching him in a contradiction rather than be town stuff

so you can use that too

[OkaPoka]

i think having an expectation of myself that i should read the entire game before doing anything is probably not conducive to me actually doing anything.

i think i'm going to use the start of this day as a starting point (along with ISOs) and if you don't like that then you'll have to deal with it or point me to specific things that you'd like me to look at.

which isos have you read

[OkaPoka]

im bored and want you to do more things in thread and lich ruined my plan of making chaos so ill probs unvote you soon wanna wagon someone

[OkaPoka]

am i trying to make nsg look like a scumlord

i think im trying to make nsg look like a lazy butt

[OkaPoka]

scumreads


<sleepless assassin>

scumlean

<kop>

nulls

<nsg>

townlean
<firebringer>

towncore
<skitter,lich>

ur turn

[OkaPoka]

if you are going to vote me please dont wait and just vote me now so i can start 1v1ing

[OkaPoka]

You're being more than a little condescending in this, misrepresenting what I've said as a "case" in the first place and then giving me these resources to "make it better". I'd like to believe that it's just that you're scum and this is your way of both downplaying and not really responding to what I've said.

I don't have a "case" against you. I have never claimed to. In fact, I don't think I'm at the place in terms of strength of reads where a case would be warranted. I voted you because I saw something that seemed scum-indicative to me, and also because nobody else seemed to have anything very concrete, with all of the talk of the game "stalling".

As much time as you've spent telling me to read the game, you don't seem to have any real scumreads yourself?

nsg

the collective town has given you 80% of this deadline to do some reading

you've displayed 0 progress in reading anything other than present thread

im giving you resources because when we do eventually engage, its better for me if you have read the thread. and you want pointers to read, what better places to start than on a scumread of yours.

lets go please i have waited so long

[OkaPoka]

okay im bored of waiting let me run things down for you nsg


8 days we've waited for you to give reads and read, this game's d2 is moving at a snail's pace so its not exactly hard to keep up.

You promised us you would get started with isos, you've stated you were reading the game. At best I can see evidence of you skimming sleepless's iso which is like 40 posts and skitter's iso but you sum it up to a NAI push on me? like what, i could've replaced into this game, looked at skitter's first 20 posts and decided yeah im rolling with it. you aren't posting anything substantial from reading past pages, only real "content" from you is stuff that happens as you pop in thread.

Most reads you've displayed are basically from interactions that have happened recently in thread, not stuff that happened yesterday which is basically where the content is at.

and then you are whining about mistreatment or whatever? wtf dont replace in games you aren't going to read.

i dont even scumread you, oversoul's done a great job at making you town imo but like

put some effort into it


VOTE: sleepless assassin

lets pop it bois everyone get in here

also

we have 2 days of deadline left : ) : ) : ) : )

[OkaPoka]

i feel like more people need to be cognizant of the fact that

a) we are running out of time

b) we are one mislynch away from lylo

c) two slots haven't read the game and don't actively appear to be trying to

c ii) our lylo situation will be absolutely fucked on a ML today, esp if its a no info lynch and seeing the general activity trends, yeah its going to be low info.

[OkaPoka]

temp gets killed probably 100% of the time here and kop will never get his mail off with scum rb so kop won't even be confirmed

so the question is what lylo do you want to play with, assuming townflips on all of them

lets see an okapoka lynch lylo:

nsg, kop, sleepless assassin, skitter, firebringer

lets see a skitter lynch lylo

nsg, kop, sleepless assassin, firebringer, okapoka

lets see a firebringer lynch lylo

nsg, kop, sleepless assassin, skitter, okapoka

these three lylo scenarios would be absolute misery for me


lets do nsg lylo

kop, sleepless, firebringer, skitter, okapoka

lets do a kop lylo

nsg, sleepless, firebringer, skitter, okapoka

lets do a sa lylo

nsg, kop, firebringer, skitter, okapoka


this last lylo? its bearable

[OkaPoka]

hey lich what lylo comp do you want to see

[OkaPoka]

yo can we have more posting in here so the thread gets lit

before i lose my mind

[OkaPoka]

Sleepless why did you sheep me early d1?

[OkaPoka]

Firebringer what was townie about me yesterday but scummy about me today?

[OkaPoka]

Skitter can you sort nsg during lylo?

[OkaPoka]

Kop what happened to your skitter scumread ?

[OkaPoka]

skitter i need you think, and think a lot about this

Why do you think scum killed CFJ and roleblocked Temporal Lich and did not claim PRs during massclaim?

[OkaPoka]

And nsg of course,

What is your victory path for town? How do we win this game? What's the lynch order you think will solve this game, because you are going to be sticking around for a while if you don't get lynched.

[OkaPoka]

ehh

more i think about it the more i dont know if kop scum really matches any scumteam

[OkaPoka]

Lylo setups r important bc im hoping that most slots become more sortable then and I don't have confidence this day phase so setting up the futur e is better now


Anyways I think I can prove who doesn't make the temp kill (me) but I still don't know who does except for a tinfoil team

[OkaPoka]

Firebringer what was townie about me yesterday but scummy about me today?

[OkaPoka]

i guess it isn't a "case" just observations...but those observations weren't really interesting either. Meh

It was more for nsg than for you

[OkaPoka]

Nsg u have 24 hours to come up with a solve and proof you have read this game otherwise I'm voting you and not inviting as of this post

[OkaPoka]

Kop who did u mail

[OkaPoka]

i dont know and its frustrating

i want nsg to come out and post something

im just going to go vote nsg soon and try and confirm its not you + firebringer for my own sanity

[OkaPoka]

Well kop isn't active enough so I think I can snipe in a time where its just you and firebringer posting

[OkaPoka]

firebringer and skitter when do you guys want to post in here so i can hammertest the both of u

[OkaPoka]

maybe early replace because maybe she didn't pick up day start pm?

[OkaPoka]

firebringer and skitter r u guys here rn

i can hammer test the both of you on both kop and nsg

[OkaPoka]

skitter u here

[OkaPoka]

well im going to vote one person and both of you post in a row

[OkaPoka]

sounds good everyone? make post

[OkaPoka]

if im scum nobody gets hurt skitter

only thing this does is it confirms its not you + firebringer

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: kop

okay make posts people

[OkaPoka]

firebringer make post

[OkaPoka]

ok step 2

who wants to confirm themselves as town

UNVOTE:

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: kop

skitter post

[OkaPoka]

UNVOTE:

[OkaPoka]

yes

[OkaPoka]

i want everyone to rank most scummy to least scummy

nsg
kop
firebringer
skitter
okapoka

[OkaPoka]

yes

[OkaPoka]

this is literally the first time ive hammer tested

[OkaPoka]

*excluding marathon games

[OkaPoka]

with fear and admiration

pedit: i made up my mind that i was okay losing to you + firebringer

[OkaPoka]

yes but that was in mylo when we literally couldve passed the day by townies were like nahhhhh

[OkaPoka]

what else am i going to do

[OkaPoka]

Idk play lylo out ?

Also i dont know why scum!you hammertests me either so

i feel like the only people playing this game are me and you and most of the time firebringer

kop jumps in to throw up a few lines about something marginally relevant and disappears

and nsg hasnt even kept up and doesnt seem like she is going to

i dont know what else to play out in lylo

[OkaPoka]

meanie

[OkaPoka]

welp now we wait for a replacement to say whether they got mail or not

[OkaPoka]

you should be townreading me because lich would have been dead earlier if I were scum

and though I don't think the things I've said are necessarily out of my scum "range", they are suboptimal plays that hurt me more than it helps me, as in me pushing sleepless yesterday as well instead of you and me hammer testing you.

as in approaching this game as scum, I'd probably do a whole less pushing for others to play. whenever i post a lot as scum its usually to keep up with town as best as possible. also I'd try and set up a situation with sleepless assassin in endgame

[OkaPoka]

do rankings plz <3

[OkaPoka]

i think its more indicative of him also not playing the game

maybe its scummy maybe its not it doesnt change my scumread on him lol

[OkaPoka]

here are your options since you dont townread us at this stage:

reread the game and develop reads

do a push on someone or interact with someone to develop reads

or start mechanically clearing people through hammer testing

[OkaPoka]

pls dont scumread me im offended

[OkaPoka]

alright, what do you need to hear from me because I'm town