The Mystery Box Of Silver 5: Clash of Cash death grips

[skitter30]

Explain to me how it's ever +EV for us to out reads as a Survivor. It's not about being special; there are just no benefits to us ever doing it unless there are signs that we were targeted by a killing action at night.

Here's a hint: it's never +EV.

You're not incentivizing me to keep u alive tho - you've basically announced that ur more concerned about scum than town, and that u are therefore playing to appease them, and that u aren't interested in furthering town's wincon. Like ur playing to ur own self-interest, and it doesnt coincide with mine

Like i dont think ur my go to lynch but i'm not going to protest ur lynch either, and if idk where to vote at deadline it's prob going to be u.

[skitter30]

Oh i think ur pretty townie, i want to know why *old dogs* thinks ur townie - i'm using this to get inside their head, and read *them*, not u

[skitter30]

@ old dogs

i don't really know what else you want me to say about vork
it was the most ??? sketchy thing that i saw in the first two pages so i decided to vote there
was it inherently scummy? no. was it weird? quite a bit, yeah
did i have anywhere better to vote at that point? no, so i figured it was a decent place to start

can't respond to a gut read really

and regarding the 3p thing: it basically kinda annoyed me to read that they were planning on just ... not outing reads, it felt like they wanted the benefit of not getting nk'd without really doing anything to contribute to not getting lynched. like just kinda expecting people to be cool with that and to go along with it without really taking into account the fact that they kinda need to keep the goodwill of the other people during the day to not be lynched

it felt kinda entitled on some level, and it rubbed me the wrong way. like it fundementally seems to be a distortion almost of the whole notion of survivor to me, to just kinda make an entrance like that and expect everyone to be ok with it

not really sure if talking about it more is conducive at this point but yeah it kinda annoyed me and i didn't like the approach they took much at all

[skitter30]

After work (eh or maybe during work, but definitely later today)

[skitter30]

sorry, what gave you the impression that that was a thing that would be happening?

[skitter30]

well zeebu probably isn't aligned with anyone, at least

[skitter30]

bleh maybe you're just town

i think the survivor thing was still god-awful tho, irregardless of your ailgnment

i'm aware that this isn't on you tho but it's still just p bad overall and makes it kinda hard to read your slot now

[skitter30]

insomnia, how can I be certain that you are legitimately town this time?

~ Pichu

When I mislynch every town

and not catch scum on day one.

The non-joke answer would be I guess you'll have to fall for my quality analysis that has depth to it. Town reading me comes naturally. Don't stress much on it.

I'll have you know that I intend to switch up my style a bit.

i mean you bussed your partner last time so
and i townread you last time for nuance and you were scum so

And you’re painting me scum for another game, be careful skitter, not the way to go about reading me.

given that i, you know, did not say i was scumreading you here for either of these things, this is a bit of a misrep

what i *did* say is that the ways you're giving ank to townread you would not have caught you in that game, so these arean't great ways to townread you
and threatening/misrepping me for pointing that out is not a great reaction either

Quote

ONE

post from that game that had analysis with depth to it. Other than my scum bud’s push, that’s easy as fuck to fake.

Then what are the ways to town read me? This is the truth. Find one post that has depth to it from that game and put it in here.

i did go back and check, but it's all about your partner - the point tho is that at that time i didn't know who your partner was, and from that uninformed context it looked nuanced.

i don't know how else to read you, i'm responding to the ways *you* gave when asked, and pointing out why given recent games those aren't valid

i also don't know why you're pushing back at this - the reasoning you gave to townread you isn't good in comparison to a scumgame you just played. like do you think my assessment is wrong here?

[skitter30]

Yep

[skitter30]

yeah, i want to know if i can change my vote or if that means it's frozen there

[skitter30]

ah ok

i think the claim probably isn't real because of zeebu, not because of anything ras did

[skitter30]

I mean ok so ....?

Like you're misrepping me and calling me scum for 'doing no solving other than omgus-ing you' and then telling me doing so is town-indicatice for you

[skitter30]

? sorry i have no idea what you're talking about

pedit i thought vengaboys was skygazer ...?

i'm so confused rn

[skitter30]

Your read on us is based on "Irrel's push on me is opportunistic and bad"
Your understanding of my push on you is "Irrel thinks I am scum because I wasn't nightkilled"
That wasn't the meaning of my post. So yes, your push on me is literally based on misrepresenting the things I said, as if I said something different

Not really it's the fact that youre asking why I'm dead in such a disingenuous way.

You realize that you're at best scumreading us for something you misunderstood and at worse for something that you're deliberately misrepping, right?

~ skitter

[skitter30]

skitter is openwolfing

~ Pichu

explain

[skitter30]

i dont know what mastina's deal is and she should hardclaim today i think

I hardclaim as "started the game VT, someone changed my role D1, and presumably same someone changed it further D2 with an upgrade" and think that's as much as should be given until day before lylo.

This game with multiple 3p probably doesn't have four scum (18 players isn't enough for four scum + multiple 3ps), so I'd be willing to bet there's only three groupscum this game.

Let's say there's three groupscum and 2-3 3ps who can scumside; that places earlist lylo as 10pish which means the earliest day-before-lylo would be tomorrow, not today.

So, sure, I'll claim tomorrow to be on the safe side. See no point in it today and think it'd be counterproductive.

uhhhh are you saying that your role got change day2 too?

[skitter30]

well idk if that's claim reasons so much as paranoia reasons

[skitter30]

oh i see now

in the first game scum had to give out an ic bp, that was fun for them

but like i think mastina's thing and our thing came from different sources ?

[skitter30]

I mean, only if toog is 3p and there's 3 groupscum, as we discussed multiple times

[skitter30]

what on earth are you going on about

a) you just called auro a 'gut-townread',and using that to poe the game, and now you're 'pretty damn sure' he isn't scum
b) why are you removing yourself (and your townreads) from the poe from *my* pov .... ? like that last line is a ridiculous conclusion

[skitter30]

ok ? i don't know what you mean by that

irrel thinks you're probably town but i'm not super comfortable with that read

[skitter30]

i mean that's not what i felt like happened from my pov at all, but ok

[skitter30]

I guess if i was scum with anybody i could have hammered someone?
I havent gone thru all the permutations so idk

I'm really really confused why mastina visits someone she's scumreading for being ascetic

[skitter30]

skitter30 replaces eleventhirty

tyty

[skitter30]

Eleven, why aren't you confident Mastina's town?

@Pisskop: I'm showing everyone else how your arguments suck.

like everything logically points to them being town i just don't ~feel~ it, idk

and i'm bad at sheeping people

but irrel was convinced that yay/mastina were the same alignment, and yay was town and ank is probably the best person at reading mastina on site rn so i should probably just trust this

which means rhinox is scum but i don't feel that either

[skitter30]

why'd you take me out ?

pedit i apparently am big on feels, who knew

[skitter30]

rhinox

[skitter30]

Sheep Ank and if you're wrong, blame it on her.

that's kinda where i'm at, actually
getting pressured by the two people i think are least likely town isn't helping me here, tho

[skitter30]

ty, i got your point, i'll do the best i can

[skitter30]

Pisskop's been flinging all sorts of shit to convince you to scumread me, with little basis in reality. He was unable to explain any of his reasons in depth, when called out. He continually tried to rush a lynch on me, not just today, but yesterday as well.

tbf i'm not sure this is 'unable to explain any of his reasons in depth', so much as 'doesn't care to'
and i'm not sure that's ai for him in any way

[skitter30]

i think this is probably ending in:
i sheep yay on mastina and vote rhinox
and then i vote pk tomorrow if i'm not dead because voted was townie

@mastina since i'm like demonstrably not scum with anyone i probably should try not to die so do you wanna like fruit vend me ?

[skitter30]

to which part

[skitter30]

pk we have very different playstyles

part of why i'm not confident on voting you (even tho voted was probably the towniest person itg day1) is because you just feel p scummy to me and i absolutely can't tell if that's a playsytle thing and i don't want to mislynch you in lylo again

i also think scum!you probably plays on that here

incidentally this is *exactly* what i felt about vork there, basically, and what led me to just brushign him off there because i ultimately decided i couldn't read him

[skitter30]

[quote="In post 3413, Auro"][/quote]

i'm talking about vork in the normal where i mislynched pk last week, whoops

[skitter30]

yes, vork in that game was scum

[skitter30]

Go and vote one of mastin or rhinox, and I will not be joining you. Whether or not we lose will depend on if you hit scum by luck.

this really isn't helping

[skitter30]

Do you want links to games I am proud of? where i make a win out of thin air for town or seal the deal as early as d2 when scum?

these would actaully be helpful, ty

[skitter30]

i'm relooking at the open that we played, and as far as i can tell, scum!you:

a) makes an effort to look townie
b) tries to talk your way out of scumreads/confronts them head-on and tries to get people to change their minds (i.e. as opposed to ignoring them, like here and the normal)
c) are generally more political and tries to get yourself into a good position in the gamestate

whereas as far as i can tell from the mini normal town!you doesn't really give a fuck about any of those things and just does whatever you think is right and has about zero patience for anyone who doesn't see things the way you do

[skitter30]

I mean not my prefered choice of words, but succinct enough. I prefer not to be typecast tho

eh i think you'd have disliked the way i was originally going to write it even more

i'll take a look, ty

[skitter30]

Legend of Zelda Mafia - I get Firebringer, my partner, to gladiate me to earn me towncredit so I can win Also featured: a loooong ass maf pt where I meticulously plan out how to win. Im not a causal scum player. Im very in-depth.

ok, so, one thing i'm looking for is someone who thinks it's a good idea for toog to fake-claim neutral survivor, knowing that he's going to get governed (i mean, i'm assuming scum were responsible for it)

it wasn't me
mastina's apparently town
rhinox had just replaced in (i thought he had repped in just after but apparently it was just before, so i guess it could have been him, but given retirement, doesn't know what ascetic is apparently, there was something else he did that indicated he was out of touch with modern meta that i'm forgetting, it feels weird coming from him)
i don't think voted comes up with that
i can see you rolling with this

do u know anything about the previous mbos games?

[skitter30]

mastina's apparently town

this is not something i endorse, knowing rhino and mastin have claimed bodies

it was different when mastina was the only killer.

eli5 please, thank you

pedit i understand that intentions matter but i also hunt by trying to figure out what scum was doing and why, and who's in a position to match that profile

[skitter30]

explain like i'm 5

like break down why the fact that they both kills implies mastina might not be town

[skitter30]

If mastina is the only killer who claims a shot, shes an sk or vig. Not mafia. We need dead mafia. And this game isnt fitting the profile of having an SK, since scum arent uber-scumhunting. You'll know scum who are hunting an sk when you see it.

this is possibly the most useful thing you've said all night

[skitter30]

part of the gimmick of the mbos games is that ~somebody~ (usually scum, but in this game i guess the mysterious trifecta too) give out powers

so i believe that one or the other may have gotten a vig shot

i guess i'm just not convinced that a) scum couldn't ahve given themselves a vig shot
b) somebody got a vig shot from scum/trifecta and the other is 3p

[skitter30]

well not all mbos but i think 3/4 of the previous ones

but you're right, scum don't seem to be sk hunting; not toog, not any of you lot, the only person/people that seemed to really be worrying about this in the past couple of days was me/irrel

so does that mean that there isn't an sk or that scum thinks that there isn't an sk - i imagine that if they're the source of the extra kills they'd know that there isn't an sk

[skitter30]

Mastina is playing a dangerous game with her meta, I think.

i actually think this too, so yea

[skitter30]

Is there no usual condition in Mbos games that scum can't gift scum?

um the first one they had to give it to town (that would be mastina giving it to me, actually)

the second i think they had to give to town ? I don't remember, actually

third no powers were given out iirc

fourth scum had to put players in pts who were then given powers; they could put at most one of themselves in a pt at a time iirc

[skitter30]

yah probably

i think it's more likely 3p than scum

i think pk made a cogent point about how scum/nobody really seems to be looking for a 3p tho, so they might not actually exist

[skitter30]

i'm not sure but i'm also getting tired enough that i'm not really following the convo anymore, so g'night!

[skitter30]

Also I don't really understand how posting a "here's how i'd perceive everyone as scum", when none of those perceptions save one are incongruent with how the game as gone down, is supposed to prove your town. The whole point seems to be to support your claim that you'd have killed YAY N1 as scum. It's a great argument because it can be true and doesn't prove shit. Your scum partners could have had other thoughts and outvoted you for one. Could have been PR hunting. Could just be lying about whether you'd kill them N1.

I actually was thinking this too

I do think they'd probably kill yay n1 but i did kinda get the impression that.that whole post was designed to give a narrative for how the game would have gone down if they were scum, and why it's not what this game looks like

Also @mastina why has ur impression of me changed between now and port arthur; this isnt really how you dealt with sorting me there

[skitter30]

i know that i do this each time, but i have trouble distinguishing between 'making sense' and 'towntelling' for some players, and rhinox is in that category apparently

yeah but see above. I can't fake "making sense" as scum. so if I make sense, it's 100% a town-tell for me.

Yeah i still dont really think you're scum, its a problem

Maybe the assumption that there are two groupscum remaining is mistaken

[skitter30]

i think pk made a cogent point about how scum/nobody really seems to be looking for a 3p tho, so they might not actually exist

everyone was talking about how 3P-heavy this game allegedly is since day 1, and we had scum take advantage of that belief in toog, and we had town attempt idk something with it in chickadead, and the first couple nk's not really fitting everyone's expectations and claims of who should/would have been nked. I think all that suggests scum would have been concerned about 3p.

Yeah but nobody is like 3p hunting
Toog wasnt doing that either

Scum was kinda like looking for a 3p based on setup, but not really based on play

[skitter30]

We know mastin is playing like Id expect 3p mastin to play. In so far as I think she is not explicitly town here. And she lacks real associatives to or from her.

I agree with this

I wish i had grilled ank on whether she'd get fooled by 3p!mastina

[skitter30]

True, but it also means that i think i'm going to shelve it for now and work on sorting out you/auro

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=79036

Read Michael Scott's ISO in this game.

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=79935
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=80107
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=78634
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=78999
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=78009

An assortment of my scumgames. Feel free to ISO.

Tell me what you observe.

can u give some links where you're not in a hydra

[skitter30]

good question

[skitter30]

i feel like if i vote in you/auro it would be a tossup

i guess i'm still leaning you tho

[skitter30]

i'm sorry :/

i don't want to mislynch you, i don't want to mislynch auro, i just want to get it right and i'm indecisive

i don't think voted was scum ; that's kinda what i'm stuck at

[skitter30]

i know, but it's the same slot and i don't know how to read auro and i don't have a good read on like anything he's done

[skitter30]

i don't know how to read auro and i don't have a good read on like anything he's done

He hasnt done anything. He took Voted good scumplay and coasted on the TR

maybe
i don't know if he wouldn't coast like that as town too tho, that's the thing

[skitter30]

i've been in lylo before, ty

you also feel like nom in the last day of the normal rn soooooo

[skitter30]

but now i'm like: does scum!you tell me to vote you?

[skitter30]

VOTE: pk

[skitter30]

i wasn't exactly expecting you to self-hammer, again, but i guess i shouldnt' be that surprised

[skitter30]

feeling a bit manipulated, wanted to see if you'd pull out the ate again, not great associatives with toog

and then i kinda yolo'd it

[skitter30]

Im not sure you if just dont know how to pick up on genuine posting or Im doing it wrong here.

i apparently can't read you, i may have said that once or twice or seven hundred times

[skitter30]

it didn't feel genuine, it felt kinda manipulative

and whatever wavelength you post on it i can't wrap my head around your thought processes

also was semi-trusting the fact that irrel + old dogs were not townreading you

anyway sorry again

[skitter30]

would've been more helpful if we had this convo before you hammered, but you know

[skitter30]

i think we have very different playstyles and the way *i* play frustrates you, and the way you play frustrates me, and i guess i have a very hard time bridging that gap

[skitter30]

and i guess you don't play in a way that i kinda expect mafia to go so i have a hard time fitting your play into the gametate

like i was expecting more of an ate thing from my vote

and i was probably going to unvote about 30 seconds later

i wasn't really expecting you to self-hammer there (i had cheked that mastina and rhinox weren't online so they couldn't hammer), i was hoping for some sort of reaction that i could do something with

[skitter30]

not one of my better games, i have to say

[skitter30]

i mean it's kinda over at this point

[skitter30]

so was mastina scum with you or ... ?

[skitter30]

oh ...

ok now i feel really dumb, sorry :/

[skitter30]

ok that makes me feel kinda awful actually, i thought pk self-hammered again :/

[skitter30]

:/ :/ :/

[skitter30]

aioafoaijfai9akk

[skitter30]

i think i'm kinda burnt out and i'm less ~on point~ than i usually am

but i don't think i really made this sort of mistake before

i'm not sure if i would have gotten to the right answer otherwise but yeah i kinda fucked up here :/

[skitter30]

i don't know

[skitter30]

everything says mastina except for the fact that yay was townreading her
i don't know how i'd resolve that

[skitter30]

i was wrong on just about everything this game so maybe i would have just decided to sheep yay

[skitter30]

that's probably the answer i would have come to, but idk

anyways gg

do you know what was going on with the trifecta ?

[skitter30]

skitter30 has been lynched! she was a town visitor fruit vendor 1-shot vigilante!

i was ?

[skitter30]

sorry for sucking

nope, that was kinda me this game, sorry :/

[skitter30]

i think i probably (?) would have trusted my read on you despite that, i think, even tho i thought ank was scum; when you started playing this didn't look like your scumgame

also yeah we both took it kinda more seriously than the game probably warranted

[skitter30]

neither do i tbh

[skitter30]

i only skimmed the white boxes in the design thread ... were they the ones who governed toog ?

[skitter30]

i was also thinking a few hours ago that it was p weird that town had ... exactly no invests

[skitter30]

i kinda feel like the ~mystery~ was ~mysterious~ enough that it made it p hard to figure out what was going on

like at some points i wasn't even sure if we were in lylo the past couple of days

[skitter30]

that survivor gambit followed by 10-20 pages of nonsense was the first sign that town was going to struggle big time this game

yep

i did actually find toog after that shitshow but that's just about the only thing i got right this game

Subject: MYSTERY BOX OF SILVER 5 SPECTATORS (DONE AHHHH)!

Am I the only one finding it weird that skitter is considering sheeping me when I spent 2 day phases tunneled on her

i was confused enough and i think that you can read mastina infinitely better than me so i decided that i probably was comfortable sheeping you (on mastina specifically; not in a general sense because other than her your reads were just *slightly* better than mine this game)

[skitter30]

Subject: MYSTERY BOX OF SILVER 5 SPECTATORS (DONE AHHHH)!

fuck my life I think this was my worst town performance all year

was defnitely mine

also i know how you play from anuket, i'm still confused why you were scumreading me her honestly; basically everything you were scumreading me for you saw me doing as town before

[skitter30]

Like i said ... i have a tendency to townread 'making sense', even if i should know better :/

[skitter30]

It was supposed to be more of a yolo-reaction-test type thing that i would have unvoted like shortly thereafter (neithet u not mastina were online then, so neither could hammer), and then he voted himseld - i thought auro was on him and that he had self-hammered, so didnt unvote, and then auro actually hammered

[skitter30]

Yes, sorry :/

I'm not usually this bad at lylo, you just ... featured in a couple of bad games

Pressuring me to hurry kinda doesnt help, like i said. I have a method but i dont like making everyone wait and it kinda messes with how i process lylo when you're sitting there just telling me to vote when i can tell i havent figured it out yet

[skitter30]

wolfing = behaving scummily

openwolfing = behaving scummily in a super obvious way i.e. if you're openwolfing you're like unabashadly helping to push a scum agenda (you can openwolf as either alignment)

deepwolfing = scum who is capable of *not* looking scummy and is getting largely townread and will very likely make endgame. i.e. scum in a good/strong position in the gamestate who are capable of carrying the game to lylo and winning it there

[skitter30]

Well neither, i guess, it just means they're being ridiculously scummy