Mini Normal 2085: Colors (Game Over)

[Ircher]

Omochao said he didn't jail anyone. So Sakura presumably saved Omochao.

[Ircher]

Flavor Leaf had a bit different plan.

[Ircher]

I would prefer a shorter night, so if at all possible, I'd request everyone to ask the mod to accelerate the night phase.

[Ircher]

The fact nomnomnom isn't even trying probably implicates Flavor Leaf as welll.

I did after all say I'd possibly consider a Flavor Leaf lynch.

[Ircher]

I can't really say.

His claim is reasonable though and your mod meta argument is no longer valid.

[Ircher]

Omochao, did you jail anyone?

pedit: Sorry, no can do. You will have to research yourself.

[Ircher]

He said no one.

[Ircher]

N1:
Sakura doctors Persivul.
Omochao jails Chemist.
??? kills ??? -> Failed!

N2:
Sakura doctors Chemist.
nomnomnom sends Chemist fruit.
Omochao jails Chemist.
pisskop investigates Ircher --> Innocent.
??? kills ??? -> Failed!

N3:
Sakura protects Omochao.
Omochao does nothing.
??? kills ??? -> Failed!

N4:
Sakura protects ???.
Omochao jails ???.
??? kills Sakura.

[Ircher]

Logically, this implies Sakura was the kill target nights 2 and 3. It also implies that Omochao is town.

So really, night 1 is the big question mark --> Was Persi saved? Was Chemist saved? Was Chemist blocked?

[Ircher]

Logically, this implies Sakura was the kill target night 2, and Omochao was the kill target night 3. It also implies that Omochao is town.

So really, night 1 is the big question mark --> Was Persi saved? Was Chemist saved? Was Chemist blocked?

EBWOP

[Ircher]

There are some plays scum could have thrown in there to create that gamestate, though, but really, if Omochao is scum, I’m ready to just let him win with it because risk is too high.


Chemist is scum with either Persivul or Okapoka, and I’m leaning Persivul.

Chemist/Persivul team.

The problem with a no kill gambit night 3 is that scum gave us an extra mislynch by doing so. Furthermore, scum!Omochao implies they also purposely no killed night 2 as well. It's just completely unreasonable.

[Ircher]

I also think that despite the risk of town!Flavor, I'd rather take flavor to LyLo than Chemist because I imagine Flavor will at least try to be useful.

[Ircher]

I think the correct move is to lynch in {Flavor Leaf, Chemist, Persivul, OkaPoka} for now and let scum sort {Omochao, pisskop, Ircher} with their night kill.

[Ircher]

That does rely on you believing that pisskop and I are not both scum.

[Ircher]

....If we lynch pisskop today and he flips town, I become IC, but then we have {Flavor Leaf, OkaPoka, Chemist, Persival} that has two scum in it for LyLo.

If we lynch pisskop today and he flips scum, we buy a mislynch, but that will likely lead to me being lynched just because of the WIFOM argument. Let's suppose I'm lynched immediately afterward and flip town as I will. Then that leaves us with {Flavor Leaf, OkaPoka, Chemist, Persivul} with one scum in it. Town no lynches and one of the four is off. (Likely OkaPoka imo.) This particular LyLo does not look very attractive.

Let's suppose we don't mislynch me despite a pisskop flip. Then we get two lynches in {Flavor Leaf, OkaPoka, Chemist, and Persivul} leaving us no better off than in the case when pisskop was town. I would never get killed in that circumstance, so I would always make it to 3p lylo.

[Ircher]

Suppose we lynch Flavor Leaf today, and he flips green. Omochao gets shot and killed.

We're left with {Chemist, Persivul, OkaPoka, pisskop, Ircher} in 5p LyLo. 2 of us are scum. From my pov, {Chemist, Persivul, OkaPoka, pisskop} contain both scum. Let's say we lynch Chemist and he flips scum.

Either a) I'm killed and 3p lylo becomes {Persivul, OkaPoka, pisskop} OR OkaPoka is killed (OkaPoka is towniest imo among the others) and 3p lylo becomes {Ircher, pisskop, Persivul}.

[Ircher]

Well actually, I'd be clear in 3p lylo since I wouldn't be able to scum with pisskop. SO yeah, I'd be killed in that case.

[Ircher]

Oh, I don't know if it helps, but nomnomnom could not have performed the kill night 2. (If nomnomnom did perform the kill, then Chemist would be lying about receiving fruit.)

Now, does Town Informed 1-Shot Babysitter + Town Doctor + Town Jailkeeper + Town N2 Cop + 5 VTs versus Mafia Goon + Mafia Goon + Mafia N2 Fruit Vendor seem balanced?
Or does Town Informed 1-Shot Babysitter + Town Doctor + Town Jailkeeper + 6 VTs versus Mafia Goon + Mafia Informed (There are no cops in this setup.) + Mafia N2 Fruit Vendor seem more likely?

[Ircher]

....If we lynch pisskop today and he flips town, I become IC, but then we have {Flavor Leaf, OkaPoka, Chemist, Persival} that has two scum in it for LyLo.

If we lynch pisskop today and he flips scum, we buy a mislynch, but that will likely lead to me being lynched just because of the WIFOM argument. Let's suppose I'm lynched immediately afterward and flip town as I will. Then that leaves us with {Flavor Leaf, OkaPoka, Chemist, Persivul} with one scum in it. Town no lynches and one of the four is off. (Likely OkaPoka imo.) This particular LyLo does not look very attractive.

Let's suppose we don't mislynch me despite a pisskop flip. Then we get two lynches in {Flavor Leaf, OkaPoka, Chemist, and Persivul} leaving us no better off than in the case when pisskop was town. I would never get killed in that circumstance, so I would always make it to 3p lylo.

Okay but if piss flips scum, we can leash omo to someone and have a pseudo clear right? Then suddenly lylo looks much more attractive.

No, regardless of who we lynch, Omochao is always killed tonight. Unless Omochao is scum, but like I said, the odds are not in favor of such. (And if he tries to no kill gambit, we force him to kill.)

[Ircher]

Oh I see. That's a good point.

[Ircher]

Also, if we do go the route of lynching pisskop, town must decide on a scum!pisskop flip whether to lynch me or trust me.

Regardless of what happens, I should never make it to 3p lylo because either town immediately lynches me after scum!pisskop, or scum is forced to kill me because I will never be lynched.

[Ircher]

Why would mafia informed be a thing in setup 2?

Eh, it doesn't necessarily have to be, but claiming cop like pisskop did does take some setup knowledge which wasn't in public view at the time.

pedit: just one thing to consider, I'm leaning towards voting Chemist, but we still need to take into account all reasonable possibilities.

[Ircher]

Flavor still wants to do analysis I thought?

And we're still waiting on Omochao's jail target claim.

[Ircher]

N1:
Sakura doctors Persivul.
Omochao jails Chemist.
??? kills ??? -> Failed!

N2:
Sakura doctors Chemist.
nomnomnom sends Chemist fruit.
Omochao jails Sakura.
pisskop investigates Ircher --> Innocent.
??? kills ??? -> Failed!

N3:
Sakura protects Omochao.
Omochao does nothing.
??? kills ??? -> Failed!

N4:
Sakura protects ???.
Omochao jails Flavor Leaf.
??? kills Sakura.

[Ircher]

Who are the top two people you plan on jailing tonight Omochao?

[Ircher]

Chemist: This is your last chance to give reads.

[Ircher]

I think the jail actually helps clear me moreso than the opposite.

Means 100% I didn’t make a kill.

If I’m not dying today, i think I’m ready to end. Chemist/Persivul is my solve, and i still lean town on PK.

If there’s a deep wolf, it’s Omochao, but i think he’s just probably town.

I agree that you being jailed helps your case.

Though I'd imagine scum!you wouldn't risk the kill w/ the suspicion you are under from the nomnomnom flip (and Penguin flip as well).

Let me know when you are ready for the day to end. I still want Omo to give jail targets preemptively so we can get clears if Chemist flips scum (which seems likely).

[Ircher]

How?

Do you think scum shot Persivul night 1? I do.

[Ircher]

Actually, I think it's pisskop/you, but I'm willing to hear your case for OkaPoka or Persivul.

[Ircher]

Again, feel free to state your cases.

I think I should be the one to hammer, so I'll refrain from voting.

[Ircher]

Good. That guarantees I'm town then because the only time an inno would be faked on me would be if I was scum with pisskop.

[Ircher]

I do think I want to hear more from OkaPoka. He's been rather quiet lately.
pedit: okapoka/persi... Hmmm....

[Ircher]

N1:
Sakura doctors Persivul.
Omochao jails Chemist.
??? kills ??? -> Failed!

N2:
Sakura doctors Chemist.
nomnomnom sends Chemist fruit.
Omochao jails Sakura.
pisskop investigates Ircher --> Innocent.
??? kills ??? -> Failed!

N3:
Sakura protects Omochao.
Omochao does nothing.
??? kills ??? -> Failed!

N4:
Sakura protects ???.
Omochao jails Flavor Leaf.
??? kills Sakura.

N5:
Omochao jails ???.
??? kills Omochao.
---
Confirmed so far:
1x Town Jailkeeper
1x Town Doctor
1x Town 1-Shot Babysitter
3x Vanilla Townie
vs.
Mafia N2 Fruit Vendor

Uncleared Claims:
pisskop --> Town N2 Cop

[Ircher]

thats pretty fucking stupid considering how hard he went after me. Even if he did drop off.

Yeah, that's a good point.

pisskop/OkaPoka doesn't make a lot of sense. OkaPoka would have had no reason to do what he did then.
pedit: town n2 cop is a viable fakeclaim. Do y'all think this setup (without pisskop's claim) would be balanced IF it had 13p?

[Ircher]

Also, why do we think mafia had a fruit vendor? It's obvious mafia did not have a roleblocker or strongman.

[Ircher]

Why did you vote OkaPoka again Flavor Leaf? If you are town, then pisskop/Persivul could quickhammer (if they are scum).

[Ircher]

-All private threads will remain open during the day.

This means scum have daytalk.

[Ircher]

I'm gonna do vca as well. We can compare notes.

[Ircher]

Ah, but are you confirmable?

If the answer is no, please don't be useless like you were in the micro.

That's how we caught scum!you.

How long did it take to catch him?

As I skim back over Persivul's ISO, this post sticks out. In particular, why was Persivul interested in the length of time it took to catch scum!Oka in Liars and Millers?

Let's suppose Flavor is right and the team is Oka/Persi. Do you think scum!Persi made this comment to try to guage when it may be the best time to bus OkaPoka?
---

Oh, and if i had to guess, the protective protected chemist, what means that he is prob town.

I don't think there was another consensus town read besides him, and i'm skeptical of believing that it was just a coincidence.

He barely posted and was null to me. How was Chemist consensus town?

Let's suppose scum did shoot Chemist.

What do y'all think about this comment by Persivul?

---

IF YOU HAMMER AND FIRE FLIPS TOWN, THAT'S A SCUM CLAIM.

FUCK YOU. YOU DON'T KNOW ME VERY WELL IF YOU THINK I RESPOND WELL TO COMMANDS.

I probably shouldn't read into this based on how Persivul defended it, but this feels like scum angry because I basically made it impossible for them to lolhammer. This is ofc dependent on Persi being scum, but I think it's a fair take.
---

That reminds me...
VOTE: nomnom

This just comes up out of the blue. I'm not sure what to make of it.
---

3.5 days to go, 3 weak wagons.

pisskop:
- kudos to oka for finding the schadd link about not using cops anymore
- more importantly, just before oka posted that link, piss was playing the

I don't really care about this game

bit. Just after the link, piss started taking the game much more seriously. Looks like caught scum who feels a need to step up his game
- I liked his initial claim. I didn't like the piecemeal nature of it though, i.e. later adding the N2 modifier. If I'm N2 cop, I'm coming out and giving my full role and result at the beginning of D3, or keeping it quiet in order to make some pushes to look for associatives. Either way, once I claim cop, I'm including the modifier. I don't see town reason not too. The addition of the modifier could have been scum thinking

crap, I need an excuse not to create more conftowns

- aside from his claim, his play is overall null to me, and an old rule of thumb is that if by D3 you have a hard null on a slot, they're scum.
BUT, there are some serious considerations in the other direction
- I need to go back and check the gamestate, but I don't recall piss being under pressure when he made the claim, so what's his scum motivation for doing so? Assuming piss/ircher aren't S/S making a bold gambit, an inno result creates a conftown, and as noted that sucks for scum. The only scum motivation I see is if he didn't want to spend time on this game (which seems to be true), and thought the claim would let him coast the rest of the game. But that's not a real strong motivation for someone not under pressure.
- One more point below

nomnom
- TBH I have difficulty spotting very high post count scum. But in this case, I think the push on mechanics and lynching in the PRs, plus the sudden reversal from that position, is very likely to be scum
- her wagon stalled at 3. This seems to me like scum think they're in a good position and don't want to bus
- piss and ircher are on the wagon with me. I find it highly unlikely that scum!piss gave a false inno on scum!ircher, and they're both on the same wagon back to back. This makes it highly likely that ircher is town, and is a plus to the town!piss case.

penguin
- I always have difficulty reading PP on content. See the point above about hard nulls on D3.
- He was on the razh mislynch D1. He's not on the final Fire Assassin mislynch D2, but that's becuase he unvoted to avoid a lolhammer, and I hammered before he got the chance.
- For me he would be a compromise lynch relative to nomnom. In general compromise lynches on D3 are bad for town, but: we have some leeway due to the lack of NKs, and I know I wouldn't want to be in lylo with him.

Something to note for future reference.
---

Oh, I don't know if it helps, but nomnomnom could not have performed the kill night 2. (If nomnomnom did perform the kill, then Chemist would be lying about receiving fruit.)

Now, does Town Informed 1-Shot Babysitter + Town Doctor + Town Jailkeeper + Town N2 Cop + 5 VTs versus Mafia Goon + Mafia Goon + Mafia N2 Fruit Vendor seem balanced?
Or does Town Informed 1-Shot Babysitter + Town Doctor + Town Jailkeeper + 6 VTs versus Mafia Goon + Mafia Informed (There are no cops in this setup.) + Mafia N2 Fruit Vendor seem more likely?

How did you even come up with Mafia Informed?

If Persi is scum, this actually suggests mafia may have an informed role.

[Ircher]

Everyone give me an ordered list of reads if you haven't doneso already.

[Ircher]

Especially you OkaPoka.

[Ircher]

id like to be unvoted please

VOTE: OkaPoka

[Ircher]

UNVOTE: OkaPoka

[Ircher]

{REDACTED}

I've changed my mind though.

[Ircher]

pretty much.

[Ircher]

that's l-1 I think.

[Ircher]

Oka, isn't the case stronger against Flavor. Aside from nomnomnom, he helped strongarm the Penguin mislynch.

[Ircher]

which is why I'm asking.

[Ircher]

prove it Oka

[Ircher]

ircher just because a case is stronger doesnt mean its more likely to flip scum

I feel like I should hammer you for this post alone.

Perhaps on a random lynching level, but when it comes to reads, stronger reads supposedly have a higher chance of flipping what you think.
pedit: prove you'll vote Flavor

[Ircher]

essentially that you do indeed have the conviction to vote there.

[Ircher]

yes.

[Ircher]

I could go Nomnom.

I think my order of preference for lynch is:

Okapoka
Nomnomnom
Penguinpower
Chemist
Persivul
Ircher isn’t on the list, i just kinda wanted to put the name here like it is.

I think Okapoka is clearly scum trying to draw fake associations and do some damage control because I’m close to a full game solve.

I’ve got some plot holes, but more info is needed in the game, and it’s not gonna be a full without a doubt solve this day phase.

I am narrowing the field, though

Okapoka/Nomnom/persivul team...?

The order seems different @Flavor?

[Ircher]

So I flipped a coin on whether to hammer or not, and it came up tails meaning not to hammer at the moment.

SO, I'll see y'all in the morning!

[Ircher]

I'm not sure tbh

[Ircher]

argue it out over the night, that should help. I'm peacing out though.
pedit: Please no. Don't do that to me scum!! I'm conf!town!!

pedit2: more them!scum versus you!town.

[Ircher]

3618 by Flavor Leaf --> That's a good point, but it's also a risky move to make as town. Making it as scum honestly would make more sense, but I'm not necessarily saying it was a scum-motivated post. It's more just a net null thing.

3622 by pisskop --> Haven't they always been annoying?

3623 by Flavor Leaf --> No, we're in 5p LyLo.

3633 by OkaPoka --> Yeah, I'm not really seeing the scumslip. You might just have to spell it out for me, sorry.

3640 by Flavor Leaf --> (It took you long enough...)

3643 by Flavor Leaf --> I disagree. Penguin lynch was the result of primarily nomnomnom with heavy support from Flavor Leaf. I'm still willing to hear you out, but let's get our facts straight.

3649 by Flavor Leaf --> {CITATION NEEDED} (from Day 3, I'll maybe accept a Day 2 citation)

3663 by OkaPoka --> I think that's a bit of misrep... He hasn't really accused everyone? Well maybe he has, but to varying degrees, and that's what matters most.

3670 by Flavor Leaf --> No, I don't think that's how it works (and yet it's believable coming from Flavor Leaf.) By definition, if you scum read a person, you generally expect them to flip scum. If it is a weak enough read where you don't think they'll flip scum more often than they flip town, then it's not useful read that you should be actively advocating the lynch of.

3700 by OkaPoka --> Gotta say, I agree that the proper move would be to kill Omo.

3702 by Flavor Leaf --> Admittedly, this is kinda what gives me the most pause about lynching Flavor. Alas, I'm still not really convinced OkaPoka is scum, so idk.

3712 by Flavor Leaf --> Yeah, that's a really good point. PK/Oka are out and PK/Persi are out. That means PK/Flavor is the only option if PK is scum.

3719 by pisskop --> I'm honestly tempted to say we just lynch Persi here. Like I said, I'm still mostly townreading OkaPoka but not as strongly as before.

3720 by Persivul --> Yes sorta, BUT Chemist was actually being fairly townread early game. It's not out of the question scum tried to kill Chemist Night 1.

[Ircher]

Also, I feel like no matter who we lynch here, if we lynch wrong, I'm gonna be blamed for it.

[Ircher]

Either it's pisskop/Flavor Leaf or Persivul is scum. That's the conclusion I'm coming to.

We've already ruled out Pisskop/Me, Pisskop/OkaPoka, and Pisskop/Persivul.

I don't think it's Flavor Leaf/OkaPoka based on their interactions in the last few pages.

So that means either Persivul is scum or the team is pisskop/Flavor. Now the question is which is it?

[Ircher]

I also don't think I'd really be comfortable with lynching OkaPoka today, so really, it comes down to either Flavor Leaf or Persivul in my mind.

[Ircher]

If I end up in 3p LyLo, I'm probably flipping a coin.

[Ircher]

It will honestly be too hard to choose then.

[Ircher]

Let me ask this: besides Persivul, who disagrees with a Persivul being scum here?

[Ircher]

If the answer is no one, we're lynching Persivul.

[Ircher]

okapoka is still voting Flavor... Why hasn't Flavor been quickhammered by scum?
Same applies to OkaPoka....

[Ircher]

also, based on everyone's explicit and implied reads, Flavor Leaf is the Condorect Winner and thus the one we should lynch.

[Ircher]

without my ballot, it becomes a 3-way tie between pisskop, Flavor Leaf, and OkaPoka... Hmmm....

[Ircher]

So here's what I had when I did the condorcet winner:

IR => Ircher
FL => Flavor Leaf
PK => pisskop
PS => Persivul
OP => OkaPoka

Ircher : Flavor Leaf -> Persivul -> Pisskop -> OkaPoka -> Ircher
pisskop : Persivul -> OkaPoka -> Flavor Leaf -> Ircher => Pisskop
Flavor Leaf : OkaPoka -> Persivul -> pisskop -> Ircher => Flavor Leaf
OkaPoka : Pisskop -> Flavor Leaf -> Persivul -> Ircher => OkaPoka
Persivul : Flavor Leaf -> OkaPoka -> Pisskop -> Ircher => Persivul
---

Code: Select all

The candidates are: "FL", "IR", "OP", "PK", "PS"
The ballots are:
(1) | 1: FL | 2: PS | 3: PK | 4: OP | 5: IR |
(1) | 1: PS | 2: OP | 3: FL | 4: IR | 4: PK |
(1) | 1: OP | 2: PS | 3: PK | 4: IR | 4: FL |
(1) | 1: PK | 2: FL | 3: PS | 4: IR | 4: OP |
(1) | 1: FL | 2: OP | 3: PK | 4: IR | 4: PS |
The defeats matrix is:
		| FL		| IR		| OP		| PK		| PS
FL		| 0		| 0		| 2		| 2		| 2
IR		| 4		| 0		| 4		| 4		| 4
OP		| 3		| 0		| 0		| 2		| 3
PK		| 3		| 0		| 3		| 0		| 3
PS		| 3		| 0		| 2		| 2		| 0
The results matrix is:
		| FL		| IR		| OP		| PK		| PS
FL		| 0		| -4		| -1		| -1		| -1
IR		| 4		| 0		| 4		| 4		| 4
OP		| 1		| -4		| 0		| -1		| 1
PK		| 1		| -4		| 1		| 0		| 1
PS		| 1		| -4		| -1		| -1		| 0
The winner(s) is/are:
FL

---
Without my ballot, it becomes:

Code: Select all

The candidates are: "FL", "IR", "OP", "PK", "PS"
The ballots are:
(1) | 1: FL | 1: PS | 1: PK | 1: OP | 2: IR |
(1) | 1: PS | 2: OP | 3: FL | 4: IR | 4: PK |
(1) | 1: OP | 2: PS | 3: PK | 4: IR | 4: FL |
(1) | 1: PK | 2: FL | 3: PS | 4: IR | 4: OP |
(1) | 1: FL | 2: OP | 3: PK | 4: IR | 4: PS |
The defeats matrix is:
		| FL		| IR		| OP		| PK		| PS
FL		| 0		| 0		| 2		| 2		| 2
IR		| 4		| 0		| 4		| 4		| 4
OP		| 2		| 0		| 0		| 1		| 2
PK		| 2		| 0		| 3		| 0		| 2
PS		| 2		| 0		| 2		| 2		| 0
The results matrix is:
		| FL		| IR		| OP		| PK		| PS
FL		| 0		| -4		| 0		| 0		| 0
IR		| 4		| 0		| 4		| 4		| 4
OP		| 0		| -4		| 0		| -2		| 0
PK		| 0		| -4		| 2		| 0		| 0
PS		| 0		| -4		| 0		| 0		| 0
The winner(s) is/are:
FL
OP
PS

[Ircher]

I'm assuming a piss/ircher s/s gambit is highly unlikely. If they did that, they can have it. So, Ircher is town. That leaves the possibilities:

piss/FL
piss/oka
FL/oka

Top of the head ranking - scummiest first -

FL/oka - because piss didn't really need a fakeclaim
piss/FL - an unnecessary fakeclaim is something these two might pull off for laughs
piss/oka

FYI I'll be on VLA from Thu. afternoon until sometime Sun.

He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm going off this post. He had you in his top 2 scummiest teams.
pedit: Yes......

[Ircher]

Maybe I should metadive OkaPoka. It may change my opinion; I really only saw his play in Liars and Millers. Maybe other games, but I've forgotten by now.
pedit: maybe so...

[Ircher]

And this is why I wish scum would've just killed me by now.

[Ircher]

dead thread is either facepalming massively at me rn or super happy with my reads.

[Ircher]

If you were scum, what would you have claimed?

[Ircher]

Do you think this setup is balanced if it had 13p excluding pisskop's claim?

[Ircher]

It's more I'm trusting my OkaPoka read here, which admittedly may not be the right thing to be doing.

[Ircher]

Also, if you were town and we had lynch you yesterday, this game would've been a loss already bc there's a slim chance we would have not lynched Chemist today. So I don't regret bringing you to LyLo even if it makes my life difficult.
pedit: Actually, you bring up a good point in the second part of your post.
pedit2: the point of the Q is to determine whether the proposed setup with pisskop's claim is balanced for 12p.

[Ircher]

If it's balanced without for 13p, then it's scumsided without for 12p.

[Ircher]

Kinda wish pisskop didn't unvote when he did. Could've confirmed Persivul in some manner if he didn't.

[Ircher]

So when I listened to nomnomnom and let her persuade me to reopen the floor on Penguin... Well we saw what happened there.

Suppose I wavered on my OkaPoka read here. How would that be different from earlier aside from a "Well, I'm right this time!"

[Ircher]

Probably Oka if I have choose one.

I'm still debating your alignment. Half of me wants to say town, but that means Oka is likely scum , and I've been townreading OkaPoka almost all game.

[Ircher]

ircher are you not convinced on me town or them scum

and do you need me to engage disingenuously

Thoughts on the second question? It really sticks out.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Persivul

[Ircher]

UNVOTE: Persivul

[Ircher]

VOTE: Persivul

[Ircher]

UNVOTE: Persivul

[Ircher]

VOTE: No Lynch

[Ircher]

UNVOTE: No Lynch

[Ircher]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf
(expired on 2019-07-31 15:19:11)

[Ircher]

dang too late
gg

[Ircher]

should've unvoted when pisskop acknowledged my post

[Ircher]

not a throw, I just executed it poorly.
Didn't think Persi was actively reading the thread.

[Ircher]

I was going to unvote after the timer.

[Ircher]

Like I said, as soon as pisskop acknowledged my post, I should've unvoted.

[Ircher]

anyway, it really was too hard to decide this game.

[Ircher]

PK was my biggest doubt on the OkaPoka read. But like I said, I got burned pretty bad when letting off of nomnomnom scum. I didn't want to repeat that mistake here...

[Ircher]

idk why you thought Id quickhammer flavor?

Wouldnt that just make me scum with [not flavor]

and still

lose you the game?

probably, but we would've lost in that case anyways.

[Ircher]

But it's also a WIFOM argument hence why I can't give too much stock to it. It is easy to subvert the meta.

[Ircher]

If I hadn't been townreading Oka all game, I'd probably have voted OkaPoka. But trusting one's reads is important.
pedit: That starts diving into trust tell territory though.

[Ircher]

VOTE: implosion

[Ircher]

I hate being conftown i LyLo.

[Ircher]

gj pocketing me Oka. You played really well. nomnomnom did a good job as well, pulling out that last second Penguin mislynch.

[Ircher]

I mean ircher noone can fault you

Look at the dead thread

Yeah, dead thread makes me feel a little better.

[Ircher]

me getting saved probably lost us the game because I turned into a useless lurker post-D2 b/c I got busy and really suck at getting un-behind when I'm behind

sorry all

Nah, the Penguin mislynch is why we lost.
---
In other news, my player ratings on my wiki page is now updated with this game.

[Ircher]

I think the real problem was the fact there was two (technically three) protectives rather than one. Though it is not broken to have jailkeeper + doctor together in a setup, it does lead to WIFOM when scum are performing the night kill as to who to shoot after massclaim.

I think the setup was overall balanced by the fact mafia could find town PRs easier, and the main misfortune for them was not guessing correctly on who to kill each night.

[Ircher]

Subject: Mini Normal 2085 Mafia

Course I shouldn't get cocky yet. For all we know in this setup Ircher's a N6 backup doc or something. I'm not saying anything in game until mod calls it.

The mafia thread was a fun read!