Project ARCH - Epilogue

[Primate]

Hey, just checking in.

[Primate]

Even if they don't (I think they do), if they get it a townie isn't getting it.

[Primate]

The problem with limiting serum to try and predict who's doing things is that sinotech are flavourwise the company that makes the serum.

[Primate]

Are you being intentionally disingenuous?

[Primate]

@Bambi: You responded to dunn calling you out for a misrep by immediatetly making another misrep. And your second point is useless pedantry.

Cloud's suggesting a factional serum pool, not a different type of serum. In the same way that each individual scum doesn't have a nightkill, the faction does and it's avaliable for them to use. (I mean maybe but eh.)

[Primate]

Re alignment spec: Yeah it's not insane, Aeon and Iustitia are given more prominence and Mod said at the end of the last game Iustitia are going to be town in this one. Don't have any particular reason to believe chaos town multiball but the companies do lead your mind in that direction.

[Primate]

I think if it were that simple then it'd become problematic as a way of clearing too many people once a scum is lynched tbh.

[Primate]

@Rautherdir: Are you aligned with the Rebels?

[Primate]

Ha, I've seen it work in face to face, but that's not what I'm doing. I just thought he was talking about the alignments (rebels specifically) in a more detached way than I would expect.

[Primate]

Sorry, I'm pretty busy this weekend so I won't be that active, but trying to show willing. It's 2am so these are pretty surface thoughts.

I was just asking Rauth if he was third party, or hell, if he was simotech and willing to own up to something odd going on. His reaction was the right kind of thing and I think it's perfectly reasonable coming from town.

Also the lies he used IMO have no agenda but to close the subject about his d1 and the miller stuff and he does not gives himself an open door to eventually vote you either. I might be wrong here but it’s not the kind of “lies” I feel scum wouldve said there

Yes. I think he clearly wants it over. I don't know about the alignment being town though.

MariaR omgusing instead of just assuming the player is wrong and hasn't actually nailed two scum early d1 on flavour reasons is odd. Possible i missed the RC factor.

Wheme I'm RadiantCowbells.

VOTE: Celestial Coordinates

lol

My issue with you right now is that even if you feel validated in defending yourself, I dunno why you would bother. If RC is the type of person that will push you regardless of alignment (going by what you told me) then I don't know what you gain entertaining him. Another thing I'm not the biggest fan of is your snapback to Sakura and insisting you're town, which I find tilted scum tend to do. I'd rather see you try to solve your attackers instead of getting petty

Quoting this because i thought you were scummy when reading and this is a nice town post so :chefkiss:

[Primate]

I tell you what, this game is so much more bizarre when you don't actually know any of the personalities involved anymore. It's like "I'm voting Rumpletumple because he's fuckin rumpletumple" and others are like "no not the magnificent rumpletumple."

[Primate]

Primate feels super lost, not sure if it's town lost or scum lost.

It's three days into the game, I feel a little behind on things because I've been away but super lost is a stretch.

At some point a couple years ago he was one of the people I deep dove and I've read every game he's ever played so he shouldn't be hard to read long term.

Not that I really believe you, but bet that was depressing. I don't think I'm particularly hard to read either.

@Primate: who in this game have you played with before?

Without actually checking old games, to answer what i think your question is, the players I know anything about are Radiantcowbells and Chemist. RC I played with in Team mafia last year and a friend of mine was recently in a newbie with him and Chemist was my scumbuddy in fork.

I don't really have much intention of upping my content beyond a couple of posts a day unless I get involved in a direct conversation or similar so if that's a dealbreaker for people sure.

[Primate]

About halfway through D1 I was replaced because i got a really serious stomach bug and was ill for a couple of weeks and I was replaced by singer. I remember RC because he got into a massively obnoxious argument with chesskid (and he was a strong townread I was wrong about).

[Primate]

I feel like it was partially your fault, but you were scum and certainly not the main guy behind it, so I don't really judge you or anything.

re response: I think it came from someone who was trying to overthink the game and was working from a place of limited information. I think that as scum if you were asked a question like that you wouldn't be thinking about how to convey you weren't third party, and I think his response is clearly to that end. I think if you were scum and asked that question, what you'd be trying to convey is just that you aren't scum, picking a safer answer. If later on it comes out there's something weird going on in the flavour where the scum are encouraged to think they aren't the scum i reserve the right to change my mind.

THAT SAID, it's a bit shit we haven't heard anything more from him outside setup spec yet and I'm curious to see what he does next with a wagon on him. But that's for when it happens.

[Primate]

Felt a bit forced from Rauth but maybe a victim of the covering all posters format.

I don't think Unwnd is scummy. I thought he had a specific tone that could be seen that way but he's got it in his other games too.

MariaR was the main one that rumpletumple comment was about. There's people saying about the PR that it means this or that because it's her and I just really have to take it at face value. Personally I thinks she's been a little basic in content but it's not overly concerning me.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Think BambiJay is scummy too.

[Primate]

Anyone want to vouch for RCSF.

[Primate]

I voted you because you already had votes on you and considering I wasn't really planning to push anything myself right now it's more likely to go somewhere.

[Primate]

I was scum with him fork and he was fairly lurky. This game he's a bit lurky too but he's more useful, and if you factor in lurkiness and just assume he's a lurky player it's not particularly objectionable. A scumread would be nice, coming in and saying that you think the two biggest wagons are town is a bit like something a scum would do, but it's only two reads, he could believe it.

[Primate]

What do you mean by space cadet stuff specifically, eagerness? I thought #819 and #1027 were scummy so it's interesting you picked them out.

[Primate]

Dunn's playing generally town but like a good player, I don't really get why anyone would have a final read on him at this point (unless they just know him better than me, is legit).

[Primate]

gamma's the kind of guy who used to get mislynched a lot because he just had weird reads or sensibility

Genuinely noted. I'll probably reread tomorrow with that in mind, come up with something and see how plausible it is. I don't really have the time to properly meta such an active player.

[Primate]

Chemist's really annoying.

Not a fan of unwnd responding to RC by questioning the fact that other people think he's town? I'm not going to make a case about it or anything but I wonder about the tone of the defense there focusing on other posters, as it's a plausible scum mindset to think "There's all these lurkers why am i being run up". I think it's fine for him to be pissed off and the frustration seems genuine. I also think unwnds point about gamma is fairly legit, and disagree with CC that it's not a contradiction. I think it's pretty bizarre that RC is making big group ties like that if he's being sincere but I don't think he is entirely. I literally don't get a cloudkicker scumread at all.

Gamma still scummy but haven't had time to read YGM which i wanted to as it keeps being referenced.

BambiJay I figure I'm probably wrong about being scummy. If you're actually copping to active lurking then it's a lot more reasonable.

[Primate]

I thought that 819 was pretty scummy too but I looked and he's done the whole respond to "everything" a bit overdramatically thing before in other games, as town, so fyi if that's what pinged you about it.

[Primate]

So what you going to do to make sure that isn't happening?

[Primate]

EBODP: Better wording

*So what you going to do to try and prevent that from happening?

[Primate]

I read you've got mail and Gamma is notably more agressive in that one than he is in this one.

If what you got out of my paragraph is that I'm frustrated RC is pushing me you're not listening. I'm not even that frustrated, I just uh, enjoy playing the game. When I called RC out for not looking at his townreaders more scrutingly I was hoping that would invoke him to talk more about why he townreads them, but instead I essentially got my whole spiel filtered into 'lol ur mad.' When I said 'guys, look at the votecounts and try to tell me if you can remember people's reasoning for them', I don't think that was hard to understand. I commented that there was a lack of talking points, so I made them. That's all I intended to do and this game will continue to bore me if people keep playing so narrow-minded

Yeah i didn't think you were saying you were pissed at RC. I didn't think you were just appealing to RC though, I think you were also appealing to RC's sheepvotes to be more suspicious of RC. You said the wagon was lead by scum.

@MariaR: ?

@Almost: She's the best you phillistine. That whole album is so fucking bitter. Also I don't really get the point of a KidAmn vote without a reason.

[Primate]

UNVOTE: Gamma
VOTE: Rautherdir

[Primate]

I was a massive lurker for years and have lurked as both town and scum and that is *such* a scummy mindset post.

[Primate]

PP I don't et what you expect from chemis with that post. He's not going to post more so what's the point in leaning on it. Do you actually think chemist is lurking like a scum?

[Primate]

Gamma why have you suddenly become really town for a few posts.

[Primate]

I was a massive lurker for years and have lurked as both town and scum and that is *such* a scummy mindset post.

So are you saying I'm not wrong, or what? Because that makes it sound like you agree with me, you just think I'm scum for saying it.

And yeah Chemist, I probably could have said that with fewer words. And if anyone else had made those points before I would have used fewer words, but no one had pointed that out about unwnd's posting yet.

And finally Penguin, you're literally calling someone out for the same thing you're openly doing.

There's three things that stood out to me. Firstly, I think your last posts have had a very nonagressive tone, you've hedged both. You did it a bit in #1014 and #1017, which I forgave more as you commented on everyone (although your only solid reads were townreads on people that lots of people are treating as town). In #1612 you do the same on everyone other than gamma and unwnd. Secondly, you mentioned the two replacements, and literally the only justification i can think of for that is that you are in scum mode, you're checking the posts that are happening and seeing the lurkers as potential lynches other than you, then as you've been lurking you've not brought that forward properly and applying the same logic to the replacements. If there's one question I want you to answer it's "Why did you mention the replacements?". Thirdly, you voted unwnd after previously saying town, and your arguments for doing so are so lazy.

[Primate]

actually i'll just out it

primate's scum
unwnd's scum

everyone else even though I have strong associative scumreads are far below those 2 tiers atm.

Fuck off am I.

[Primate]

I am expressing strong repudiation of your theory.

Why am i scum, CC?

[Primate]

I'm townreading unwnd? Do you mean I'm not voting unwnd?

[Primate]

it's really the same thing

Suppose it is, in the context of your point.

especially when you're calling people like Rautherdir scum after objectively towny posts for voting him and trying to chainsaw defend him \o/

Yeah, no, that's not what's happening here. And "Objectively townie"?

@Dunn: A while back in earlyish game.

[Primate]

In my last game my posting style was called so old fashioned as to be practically unintelligible, and then your worst takes in 6 years thing? Maybe I'm insane, but I refuse to believe I'm making that little sense.

[Primate]

Go on.

[Primate]

Also conf fucking biasing simple minded players, you thought i was mafia regardless of the flip so why do you even give a shit about this game? @gamma @sakura

I don't like your action around the hammer rn

Are you just talking about the vote turn or general behaviour because the vote turn was townie imho. Scum wouldn't have done something so obviously attention grabbing (unless they really need serum but that could be the case either alignment).

[Primate]

Nightkill speculation is pointless. Think about it if you want but it's so wifom.

[Primate]

Then congratulations gamma, you cannot read

VOTE: primate textbook scumpost

Why?

[Primate]

Nightkill speculation is pointless. Think about it if you want but it's so wifom.

It actually can be useful but idc to fight you on it rn

Maybe I phrased that wrong, I think it's useful to internalise but talking about it is generally unproductive as there's no way of proving anything.

[Primate]

This feels crap, can people calm down and let the people mentioned turn up and just say no or whatever. Stop hyping it.

[Primate]

Yeah, my first post was about you, I was wondering if I was taking crazy pills there.

Bearing in mind i was asleep from my last post to the lynch d1 as I'm uk, I didn't think there was any other point in the day you needed to be defended.

I have no intention of trying to drive anything unless I strongly believe it. I don't post enough to do otherwise.

I don't get your point about #1944. I was responding to a post accusing you of a scum mindset.

[Primate]

@CK: You say my read on you seems contrived, I don't think it is on you specifically, but I am probably townreading too many people and should sort that.

[Primate]

If people want content from me this is how I'm leaning.

Strong Town

• Cloudkicker / Sakura Hana / KidAmn / RedPanda

Town

• Almost50 / Chemist1422 / Dunnstral / Gamma Emerald / WhemeStar

Idk

• Bambi Jay / Oversoul

Scum

• Almost50 / Fred The Cat / MariaR / PenguinPower

Strong Scum

• Rautherdir / RadiantCowbells Superfan

[Primate]

VOTE: Rautherdir

[Primate]

3) Something else.

Could be 2) though but it'd be a bit weird/op for it to be one ability.

[Primate]

If people want content from me this is how I'm leaning.

Strong Town

• Cloudkicker / Sakura Hana / KidAmn / RedPanda

Town

• Almost50
  / Chemist1422 / Dunnstral / Gamma Emerald / WhemeStar

Idk

• Bambi Jay / Oversoul

Scum

• Almost50
  / Fred The Cat / MariaR / PenguinPower

Strong Scum

• Rautherdir / RadiantCowbells Superfan

Yeah, that's a fuckup, he should be in scum. He was one that moved when I was rereading. (along with kidamn, maria and bambi, if you're curious).

[Primate]

Actually.
Do we really think that a scum ability would necessarily require serum if it's strong?
Coz that'd make it easy to find scum if it's just hunting inside a wagon.

To respond to this kind of, I think it's likely scum have some purpose for serum just because it's a core mechanic of the game and it makes the game more interesting.

[Primate]

If there's roles that give serum I would imagine that serum is held individually and can be given/stolen etc. They might (imho probably do) have their own mechanisms for gaining it to prevent the kind of lynch amongst the wagon shennanigans you're talking about here, and to maybe give them a choice between which night actions to use. This is speculation but it's the kind of thing I would expect in a game with a resource mechanic like this.

[Primate]

TBH if it's two seperate abilities I don't get the logic for blocking vifam/oversoul. If it was like a vanilliser due to NAR I would expect the Oversouls target to get the serum though so if it's rbing as well the ability is getting a bit too convoluted to be reasonable imho. I'm leaning that he was millerised and the lack of serum delivery is because of something we don't know about yet (or dunn is lying).

[Primate]

Yeah, that's a fuckup, he should be in scum. He was one that moved when I was rereading. (along with kidamn, maria and bambi, if you're curious).

So, are you saying you're scum with KidAmn.. that you tried to compose a read list that both looked okayish and have your p up somewhere in the TRs, so you revised the slots that could be switched with them eithout much scrutiny? Good move.

Conspiracy theories aside, that doesn't even make any sense with where you both are. I had a read on you as town from d1 for some reason and I looked back and there was nothing there.

My kidamn read is a bit of a punt as as they said they haven't been around much. The early small conflict with CC was nice and i like the fact they've been overly free with some role info (#2004), i think though it's really just that despite the lurking the attempts to engage with the game appear legit.

[Primate]

I never said I thought user 11 was a virus. I think anyone who has an opinion on them is...strange.

I mean do you think lurking is scummy?

[Primate]

Primate wagon composition has 5 overlaps with Unwnd, so far. Not liking that at all.

I don't like the last three votes in the wagon at all. There is some sorting in his iso and his reads aren't too far off from mine. But primate not fighting the wagon is pinging me.

I've tried to respond to any points worth rebutting but no-one other than CK is really giving any reason. That's not to say I'm happy about it being wagonned, it's pretty stressful, but I'm kind of vacillating over whether I'm actually annoyed. My current feeling is that if lynching me is literally the only thing that happens in the day, like 3 people jumped on now, I'd be pretty annoyed, and I would have to see that as laziness even if people on the wagon thought I was scum. I very much want to not get lynched and continue to play the game but I'm not going to try and fabricate some angryman posts that reflect something I don't feel. I think I've been less active, but I absolutely don't think I've been inactive, and I think there's plenty of my content to get a read on me. If when reading it you think I'm scum, that's more your fault than mine.

[Primate]

The irony of me being a fairly tone based player and not really giving reasons for my reads and being annoyed when other people don't do the same on me isn't lost on me and is most of the reason I'm not critical of most of the people on me, but it would be very nice if they would stop being wrong.

[Primate]

Imho the way that played out makes PK look pretty town. I think all the discussion wrt creature is a thing you either need to be in on the ground floor on or there's no point getting involved.

I feel like Tanaka was town for a bit on introduction. Then scummy (that sakura vote was weird once it wasn't a joke) then claimed early. Re that claim, I think it's definitely the kind of thing scum could set up, but I don't get the benefit to claiming now as scum. It seems like a much more town motivation to claim early on the assumption it proves your towniness so "we can get on with things".

I literally don't understand why there's so few people scumreading Rauth. He's been incredibly setup spec heavy, not doing any scumreading at all D2, he's competing with Chemist for the least active player in the game (nowhere near as bad content wise though).

I think voting for someone on the unwnd wagon thing is sensible but with limits. I think that it's likely that serum was used to kick off what happened, but think it's still unexplained enough that it's not critical and it won't stop me voting someone I think is scummy. (Kind of fortunately there are scummy people on the wagon so it's moot.)

If people are feeling a Chemist wagon for inactivity there's also PP, who's doing the exact same thing just posting more and not being so brazen about it. And he was actually on the wagon!

[Primate]

Wheme can you pls do a thing that makes it obvious what your alignment is.

[Primate]

If it seems like I'm resistant to a wagon on Chemist I am to an extent. I think his interactions have shown an attempt to get engaged with the game and his reads don't seem fabricated, but there's been less of that recently from him and that's not the main reason. The main reason is that I don't think any wagon on him is likely to get any response except further lurking and possibly replacement. It's possible I'm overextrapolating my position wrong based on the one game we played (a game without traditional lynch mechanics) and someone in this game calling him a habitual lurker earlier this game, so I need to have a read of some of his other games, but that's my stance on it.

[Primate]

If it seems like I'm resistant to a wagon on Chemist I am to an extent. I think his interactions have shown an attempt to get engaged with the game and his reads don't seem fabricated, but there's been less of that recently from him and that's not the main reason. The main reason is that I don't think any wagon on him is likely to get any response except further lurking and possibly replacement. It's possible I'm overextrapolating my position wrong based on the one game we played (a game without traditional lynch mechanics) and someone in this game calling him a habitual lurker earlier this game, so I need to have a read of some of his other games, but that's my stance on it.

I think that's bullshit, he's been prodging more than I have and I had a goddamn funeral yesterday. He's made a couple of cursory attempts to engage at best

I meant in the context of an incredibly lurky player. If this is normal behaviour he shouldn't be playing mafia.

[Primate]

It's late and I'm drunk but unwnd did some scummy things between that. I mentioned it in #1252 and #1331. I felt like CC was being obnoxious in trying to gather support for the unwnd wagon.

[Primate]

I've been a bit ill the past couple of days sorry. This is mostly going to be catchup.

I will consider bambi as confirmed 3p until proven otherwise, i believe his claim because I read him 3p pretty fucking hard throughout the game on a level that i doubt could be sustained from a scum game, he just has no agenda but pure opportunism/survival, which I read as scum early on but its better explained by a 3p

Someone later asks how you can read bambi as 3p, and I didn't at the time, but in the context of now her murder fixation and general ease to wagon hints really strongly at survivor and she's been doing it since the beginning of the game. I think it's whataboutery to not include a miller in a townblock unless I'm way out of the loop and townblocks are legally binding now.

Don't have issues with massclaim.

I think the pisskop thing was annoying because it's based on something that he had no control over, and even if FTC's meta is rock solid replace out as scum, it's a dumb argument, as he could have replaced out for whatever reason and the replaced player can't argue about it. I think if you want pisskops lynched you can let a potential FTC read influence you but you really need to be coming up with reasons why pisskops is scummy.

I was wrong about chemist I guess. Makes my townread on the slot weaker.

MariaR's take on Cloud being lynched for information is bizarre at this stage.

I don't really understand why PP voted PK if he's not using the creature justification.

@Tanaka: So you have town/3p reads on everyone else then?

[Primate]

Sure.

[Primate]

I don't really understand why PP voted PK if he's not using the creature justification.

I was voting because of creature meta but then unvoted when I remembered this:

Scum creature doesn't usually get replaced though? Typically they prod dodge/low effort until they get lynched ime.

You said you preferred PK to A50 though in #3000. Regardless of whether you have a townread on A50 or it's something else, why include PK as a pref? Is this because you consider PK scummy despite thinking FTC wasn't creature? Or did you just use him as an example because people were talking about him at the time?

[Primate]

I'm not sure that scans. If you think the scum have more info than the town then you're less likely to catch them out with their claims, making the whole thing less useful? Unless you're talking about co-ordinating roles?

[Primate]

Imho the motivation of a d2 massclaim like this needs to be to hope the scum haven't got proper false claims or they've misread some aspect of the setup. I don't think it's advantageous for co-ordinating info roles at all. One scum rb and all you've done is give them a target list.

[Primate]

Yeah, sorry. I didn't pick up on the hints about masons, I would have stopped if I'd seen them. Yeah that's a pretty unarguable claim.

Unvote

I was scum with him fork and he was fairly lurky. This game he's a bit lurky too

but he's more useful

, and if you factor in lurkiness and just assume he's a lurky player it's not particularly objectionable. A scumread would be nice, coming in and saying that you think the two biggest wagons are town is a bit like something a scum would do, but it's only two reads, he could believe it.

Note that Chemist had...really not done anything worth of being called "useful".

Primate just can't give a straight answer to it and this commentary about such a hard lurker slot comes more likely from scum than town.

If I had to guess even more, I would say that it's scum!Primate that knows Chemist is town. But not sure.

viewtopic.php?t=79631&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

I was comparing him to his behaviour in Fork

. Compared to that game, he's more useful. At the time I made that post, he'd actually done things other than just say "I'll post later", which he didn't in the length of that other game, bar one post (admittedly a very short game timewise, but he was actually commenting on stuff naturally in the first couple of days of this game) . I probably held on to that read too long after that after his behaviour actually dropped off properly and started to look more similar. I think he probably shouldn't be playing mafia if this is normal activity, but if he is, my view is that you need actually try and make a good faith attempt to read what is there instead of just doing lurk=scum if meta doesn't support that. If they hadn't been replaced I was intending to do a read of Chemist and Creature to see if their actual meta held up with what people were claiming for them, but they've both been replaced, thank god.

Primate has not even since even considered that I could be scum leaning on them, do you know why tanaka?

Beside the point, but of course I've considered it. It's just like, you were the main defender for someone I had doubts about the lynch of D1. I expressed possible annoyance at being speedlynched causing a wasted day at the beginning of the day and you stepped back, you've shown a good attempt to analyse the night actions and remove ambiguity. I know I'm not a great player and it's not weird to me that you think I'm scum. I said earlier that I'm fairly easy to read, but that was more just something I said back in the day and I haven't played properly in like 6 years. It's a bit frustrating that you've tunneled me without really stating any reason why in a form that I can try and rebut, but it's not something I consider inherently anti-town. And largely you seem to also have my reads, unless I'm projecting that. I just don't see anything much to find fault with other than your read on me.

[Primate]

Seems like you're endorsing a wheme wagon there without being on it. 85% and not wanting a claim?

PPEdit: what are you trying to achieve?

[Primate]

I looked at some other games and whemestar could be scum meta-wise. I just find it weird that a scum would pick an uneeded fight with RC d1.

@wheme: do you have a history that could justify this as scum?

VOTE: rainn

[Primate]

Ok I'll check that now. (I liked that last post)

[Primate]

VOTE: Whemestar

Partially for the serum, partially because that claim's nothing and he's scummy.

[Primate]

That's extremely weird.

Also from the flip the game is most likely singleball

Weird kill if it's one scum team. (I'm partially joking I get how it's possible but I don't see how it's more likely than the other way).

I got an envelope last night.

[Primate]

4) The company that Wheme belonged to, GenX, is identified by a blue color, and he sent out a blue envelope. Pisskop claims to send out red envelopes. We have not seen a company that is red, and it very well could be simotech that is red.

Johnson and Family could be described as red, imho.

[Primate]

Looks pretty good for almost if that's the reason PP was killed, scum actually thought he was a cop.

[Primate]

This is my view, most of it based on the flavour. We know that Simotech does not exist as a company in this game. The reason we are here is to stop the flow of serum. And flavourwise I think it'd be a bit weird if the serum production is a complete red herring. So it seems likely that we either have simotech, we have a group of people unrelated to simotech who are the scum and producing the serum, or we have some pro-town force producing the serum and us being concerned about the production is a red herring. Whilst it could be the Aeon alignment producing the serum, the information we've got so far I don't think naturally leads you in that direction, although it's a fair point that that win condition is a strong indication to me that we're dealing with a single scumgroup. I feel like the flavour so far is leading us to the conclusion that the people making the serum are split across several companies, with Johnson and GenX both implicated. This isn't based on any role knowledge or anything, but I wonder if in the future there's going to be a event where we can in some way decide that we're actually just fine with the serum and maybe something major will change. Speculation though.

RE PP/Almost: PP had to be team scum, he's got an area marked factional ability. I don't think it means a huge deal that it was redacted. I looked at everhope and the scum had a list of stuff they could use in the pt that wasn't even mentioned in the PM (this was mentioned as a possibility in that games rules). It's possible the mods has moved some stuff around and tried a different implementation of a similar type of thing. I think you have to assume that he could do stuff other than kill. The general situation with the PGO makes sense. PP claimed something about a50, the a50 pgos and pp dies, sure. I don't think specifics about the actions make sense (I don't think speculation about a50 losing his role makes sense, and the stuff with the aescetic seems weird), but I think that's broadly what happened. We're down a kill but we don't need an explanation for that now.

[Primate]

Oh... I just realized something.
If Aeon is town aligned and has an ability to convert town players to their alignment, that might not count as a cult. (Since cults aren't town aligned and don't usually have restrictions on who they can target)

The Aeon alignment win condition is to outnumber the rebels? How would that fit with a town recruiter?

[Primate]

Because that means they can outnumber the rebels through conversion instead of kills.

The rebels are the town?

The main problem I have with the turn into robots theory is that A50 isn't a robot right now. If he is PGO, whatever PP did should have actually worked. And it doesn't seem to have done anything we know of. I just think it's really speculative, and we already have oversoul having claimed to have been vanillised by an ability that doesn't seem to work the way you're describing.

I'm also going to guess that if that is the case, Simotech would probably be aware of it as that would probably be a loss mechanism for them.

p-edit:
... yep. Forgot about that.
Wait... is it Aeon the alignment or Aeon the Corporation then?

Aeon is an alignment and a company and PP was both.

[Primate]

If they're changing alignments to theirs by any method and don't win with the town that's a cult imho. Arguably even if they can win with the town under some circumstances.

[Primate]

Yeah, ok, I get what you're saying. Which would explain why a50 doesn't know he's potentially converted, sure. Seems possible and would explain why PP might have wanted to defend him.

The most simple answer to 'how can Aeon win by only outnumbering the Rebels' is that there is no other group-scum. But I'm not sure how likely that is.

Aeon designed the pods that we know were used to gather the serum data, and designed Simotechs medical equipment. And we know that simotech went bankrupt and don't really exist anymore. I think there's flavour justification for it. (But I'm playing devils advocate a bit, seems weird flavourwise too).

[Primate]

Normally PGO's don't block too. If it's like an arsonist you could be roboticised and not know.

Arsonist (sk; common; 4+ players): You can prime a player at night by dousing them in gasoline. During the day, you may set a fire which kills all primed players. Actions: prime (day)ignite

[Primate]

So PP didn't want you lynched not because you're actually the same alignment, but because you're for their purposes a player on their side/dead player.

[Primate]

I don't agree with Rainn, think it's weird to include a 3p, and don't care about you claiming I don't think so for me it's moot.

[Primate]

#1: He wanted a50 around for some reason.
#2: Cop claim good for not being lynched.

[Primate]

Bizarre.

[Primate]

If you thought he was scum trying to kill you why did you claim Aeon instead of Simotech at that point?

I think the context for the "scumclaim" makes it seem reasonable.

[Primate]

Sorry, I was fairly busy today. I was following along a bit last night and this morning on my phone but it really just felt like a yelling competition and my general takeaways whilst reading was that it was absolutely maddening the way Fish didn't seem to actually respond to anything properly and that It was stupid the way rainn was tunneling and stretching and then later gave the impression of actually realising he was wrong a bit but not backing down. I don't think Cloudkickers tone was anything too extreme, but I admit I have tolerance for that kind of thing, and I think Rainn's argument wrt CK's defense of unwnd in particular was stupid. I don't think it's rich for CK to post bigger posts today, I take it as an attempt at a constructive apology. I find it funny at the end of that you're both voting the same guy.

My general thoughts are that i sympathised with oversouls frustration but think that Sakura's point is decent. Fish mongers pisskop reveal is scummy is fuck but the play just seems weird.

In my alloted time today I've mostly been reading and I haven't properly digested everything yet, so sorry if you were expecting some great insight from me (don't worry, I know you weren't).

[Primate]

Why are we ignoring the slot that has done literally nothing all game?

Because lynching him would be flipping a coin and it feels shit.

[Primate]

I'll address some of CK's points. Flag up anything I missed that you want a response to.

Also primate's hammer d2 was a scumclaim imo and i have no clue how no one mentioned it either

I think it was premature in retrospect, obviously exacerbated a lot by being wrong. I don't really believe that we should have waited for the masons specifically as you suggest, but absolutely should have waited longer. There were a couple of things that I was considering at the time. Firstly I thought wheme had largely given up, secondly, I wanted serum and I was afraid if I left it any longer then I wouldn't be on the lynch wagon. I did think he was scum, but 4>2. Thirdly, and this partially a scumread thing, but why I hammered there thing is that my immediate reaction to the claim was bad, because I was generally operating under the assumption that one of the letter senders is scum, and I didn't think it was redpanda.

It is somewhat incoherent because he showed earlier that he valued people who unvoted to think about their reads when he appealed to me, this is a bit off w/ his hammer
+
He hammered and felt compelled to justify himself immediately which is an implied admission of guilty that he was very aware his hammer is scummy.

I think this is a bit disingenuous. I didn't care about you unvoting, I cared about the fact you were wrong and not giving anything I could try and change your mind on. And yes it was a justification, but I don't see it as scummy to give an explanation for why I was doing what I was doing.

Also Gamma, I didnt even ISO primate or PP because im a lazy motherfucker, but i bet a vote that if you ISO primate (assuming hes aeon) he listed PP as scum; basically the only slot on the table who didnt think PP was town.

Its very common that mafia will put towny scum slot on way lower read list tier because they are very concerned about how a flip will look like in their read list ISO (been there, done that)

He probably hasnt pushed the slot a single time (didn't ISO, i am assuming) will probably iso once this chemist is fliped

Yeah. My general view of PP was that he wasn't saying anything of note, just kind of posting for the sake of posting. When I made that read list I didn't have the impression that he was widely townread, my impression was more that people were kind of ignoring him. I thought PP was active lurking and I mentioned that people should be looking at him for that in #2842. I don't think it was too long after that he softclaimed vig (I know some mentioned investigative, but I thought vig), and I stopped mentioning it because that's so easily testable.

@Gamma does this sounds like someone who talks to a scumread ? confbias tho

I figured if I asked him the question without being specific he'd just brush it off (instead he didn't answer at all :toot:).

Looks pretty good for almost if that's the reason PP was killed, scum actually thought he was a cop.

Does this looks like someone who got validated in believing a strong TRd slot flipped mafia despite everyone's read?

I didn't actually really push him and it'd be a bit self-aggrandizing to bring it up, especially when I'd literally hammered a townie the previous day. It was nice but tbh I was more happy that there was only one death and it was mafia.

Why then, would an not-so invested slot shows a POV that is flavour heavy? Why would an uninvested slot would invest more in the flavour than the majority of the very active slot?

What is the difference? Why would someone take the time to read all the stuff the mod posted just to pro dodge and not engage anyone?


Don't you think that it benefit mafia more than it does to town? the only pov Primate is able to gives is one that is mechanically/flavour wise sound, but ultimately emotionless, which is a textbook s tell.
Who pro dodge a game just to post a very dense half-wall about flavour??

I don't post very much, I think the flavour is interesting, and it's a topic that people were talking about, it's not like I suddenly went off on a tangent. It's also a lie to say that's a prod dodge, I posted a fair bit that day. I actually don't consider myself to have made a prod-dodge post at all this game, which is massively out of character for me.

[Primate]

Yeah, I'm under no illusions.

I'm Will Grant from GenX. 2 serum to remove someone from their factional PT. 1s upkeep, if I don't pay upkeep/die they get to go back in. Used it on OS last night. Didn't use it n2 cause I'd immediately fail upkeep.

Mod wouldn't tell me what implications this would have wrt to them organising factional night actions.

[Primate]

Primate, can you claim why you needed the serum today?

My ability is better the earlier it's used.

[Primate]

No, it's not ideal. And yeah, only factional.

[Primate]

VOTE: Primate

[Primate]

Should be, unless someone didn't pay their upkeep.

[Primate]

Also, game is bastard because, as I suspected, flavor impacts the game. I was worried there might be more to it then that though. Although I now have no idea why Primate directly asked me if I was Simotech or Rebels.

I thought you were hinting third party. That was pretty much what it said on the box. I had kind of a half idea that there were a few anti-town factions, with simotech as the major scum one, and in retrospect I probably outed that I had more info than I should have.

I enjoyed the game, it was nice to play one again. Was pretty stressful at points but not too bad. Was weird to be so absolutely caught dead to rights by CK. Not killing Sakura was a mistake, but hey, I don't think it would have changed anything in the long run and it made sense at the time. Great flavour and modding.

[Primate]

BTW, From our flavour and the talk of events, as well as our stuff being partially town beneficial, I thought there was absolutely some chance of us being converted to town, or at least being able to win with them. Certainly I wasn't playing most of D1 as scum (although I'm aware this stuff seeps through).