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I was going to follow this up with "...and I'm a miller." in my next post, but after post 15 I wanted to see what Bambi's deal was
Probably a good idea with that whole 'lynch -utility town' idea suddenly popping up. Want to claim masons with me instead?
On a more serious note, I personally think it's highly likely that at least one player aligned with Simotech (flavor-wise the company
creating and distributing serum
) has an alternate means of generating serum for themselves or their team.
After reading the Chapter 1 opening claiming companies sounds like it might be an indicator of what style of role you have, i.e. if we have a doctor or similar they're probably from WNGD
All players on a lynch wagon receive 2 Serum.
If a lynched player was aligned with Simotech, all players receive an additional 2 Serum.
Simotech is an alignment, not a company.
The only other known alignment is The Rebels, revealed in the Sample Role PM. (Which isn't actually a vanilla town role)
On another note, we might not have vanilla players?
In post 101, Sakura Hana wrote:oh so Simotech is scum?
Do we know if it's a 3rd party or the groupscum of the game.
They're probably scum, considering the flavor of this game. Though they were the town of the previous game...
We don't know anything else at the moment. The Rebels are probably town, and they're revealed in the Sample Role PM to use the color green, but it says Sample Role PM and not Sample
Town
Role PM. While their Win condition is seemingly standard for town it's possible it will change as new information is revealed.
However, I remember what happened in the previous game and statements that were made by the mod at it's end.
I have a theory that in this game there is no town or scum at the start of the game. Whoever wins the game will be town. Whoever loses will be scum. We might be evenly balanced between three or more alignments at the start. (Possibly two, but as I mentioned some of the flavor implies three.)
That theory probably isn't correct or accurate though. I do think there's another alignment for Aeon Technologies though. In which case claiming companies is a bad idea since it could reveal alignment.
In post 110, Primate wrote:Re alignment spec: Yeah it's not insane, Aeon and Iustitia are given more prominence and Mod said at the end of the last game Iustitia are going to be town in this one. Don't have any particular reason to believe chaos town multiball but the companies do lead your mind in that direction.
Ah, right. Forgot about that. Odd though, since Iustitia isn't an alignment in this one? Though the Sample Role PM was for Iustitia, that might end up confirming that the Rebels are basically town.
In post 111, KidAmn wrote:I'd expect 0-1 Simotech infiltrators in each corporation. Not every corp will have one, but the flavour (in as much as it can be used as an indicator here, which is to say, near nothing, so feel free to ignore this) suggests Simotech have inveigled their way into almost everything.
I'd say Iustitia and Aeon Tech are the least likely to have infiltrators. I agree with Primate though, it probably won't be that simple. (And I do think the companies are more to signify what sort of role you have, as well as your participation in events maybe?)
I'll go with an alternate statement instead of answering that question, I am either aligned with The Rebels or with Simotech, I have no definite knowledge of other alignments right now.
In other words, I claimed that I'm not third party, which I guess means that since I'm assuming Simotech is scum and would thus lie about their alignment...
I'm aligned with The Rebels. See, it doesn't work. That statement was effectively equivalent to the one I made earlier, except in one way: A third party could also make this later statement, but probably wouldn't make my earlier statement.
I mean I can see why you're voting Bambi but I'm not sure whether or not I think that's AI or not right now. I've seen town give similar suggestions before, and I think that might have been just a play to get us out of RVS.
Having said that...
Bambi if we lynch Simotech then we get more serum. If we want serum, the optimal play is to lynch Simotech. Not to lynch Negative Utility Town. Especially since one of those Negative(?) Utility players could have an ability in the realm of "Players on your lynch don't get serum" or "Players on your lynch only get one serum" or "The player(s) responsible for your death lose all serum in their possession" or something like that.
I also came to the realization that scum self-hammering to deny town serum might be a thing to watch out for. And then immediately realized that the serum gain when lynching Simotech might be to offset that.
... I mean if you're going to discuss it in a civilized manner as you appear to be capable of and are currently doing, feel free to do that instead of the death spiral into an all caps rant. It will be much easier for everyone else to read.
I mean, at the very least can you not make it a quote pyramid at the same time? Please?
Also, why did that vote happen CloudKicker. I can't tell why you made the vote from your previous posts or context.
In post 150, Rautherdir wrote:I mean, at the very least can you not make it a quote pyramid at the same time? Please?
Also, why did that vote happen CloudKicker. I can't tell why you made the vote from your previous posts or context.
I know you are trying to distance yourself from me when I openchainsawed your slot
I'm leaning town on CloudKicker, they do appear to be doing sorting, though I'd appreciate if they gave in-depth reads at some point.
I kind of doubt that MariaR is scum on reason of the possibly-not-real-posting restriction, I have faked a posting restriction as scum before and this doesn't look like that sort of thing. (At least I personally would not commit to that in-depth of a posting restriction unless I actually had to) There's also the chance MariaR is doing it for fun, but that would honestly be NAI. Her actual content though... I'm not really able to tell if she's town or scum (or third party), she can be resolved later.
KidAmn is... maybe town maybe scum. Some of their logic doesn't really work but I'm not sure if that's just wrong conclusions or misconstruing on their part. I'll do an in-depth read of them later and see what I can figure out.
I'll go ahead and again say that I'm aligned with town.
Celestial Coordinates is probably town, their progression generally matches town!Radiant (Though I'm not sure if Nancy has posted much or not, I don't remember how their posting feels.)
Omochao is currently null due to being on V/LA with no posts of content to read.
RCS is a lean-town for me. They have done sorting on people, but not much. I don't see anything suspect about them though either.
Bambi Jay, well first of all thanks for getting this game out of RVS. That doesn't necessarily make you town though, and you're later content isn't really that good either. I do get more of a 'I just want to get past day 1' vibe from them though instead of anything malicious. Will be able to better sort on a later day.
Gamma I'm not sure about. I'll do an in-depth read later and see if I can uncover anything.
Chemist1422, I don't really see much from you yet. I'll be able to give a better read of him later on in day 1.
Fred the Cat. Even if you are an alt for a certain person I've decided not to give that any attention, the point of the alt would probably have been to get away from that. It would be appreciated if you could give reads on people instead of sheeping though. (I know it's day 1, but there is actually stuff to read from most everyone at this point.)
RedPanda, I don't see very much open reasoning about your reads, that would be more helpful then just saying whether you think a person is town or not. That said, you are giving reads, and appear to be interacting with others to build them. A town-lean for now, I can evaluate you better later on in day 1.
WhemeStar. First of all you're horrifyingly difficult to read. I can tell you're sorting people but I'm not sure if that's just keeping up appearances or not. I would wait and see if he can be sorted better in a later day.
Vifam, could you explain why the unwnd wagon is bad? You do appear to be doing sorting, I'll mostly leave you to it for now. Will be sorted later.
thecoldheartedking is awaiting replacement and I don't know them well enough to make a read based on their existing content. Will sort later.
Primate is currently null. Joined in with mechanics talk at the beginning, then that question which threw me off because WHY didn't you just ask if I was third party or not if that's what you were looking for. I'll read you better later, you have stuff to work on from me now.
Sakura Hana is probably town. I'd appreciate more content from you though, and you've mostly been sheeping. (Again, even though it's day 1 there is enough content to actually do some scum hunting now.)
Dunnstral is probably town. They've been doing quite a bit of sorting and while he's not always open with his reads I can tell he's developing them.
unwnd is... lean-town right now? I think they'll be easier read later, though I'm not sure if I like how they appear to be openly pacing themselves or not. They have been doing some hunting, I just really am not sure about their current tactics.
I'll get back into this again later to do actual reads on KidAmn and Gamma.
Hmm, after doing a read on Gamma, I think they're a town-lean for me now. That might change on a later day but for now he's good.
KidAmn isn't all that great, but has at least been doing stuff. I ended up coming to the conclusion that they'll be easier to read on a later day.
On the replacements:
PenguinPower has been lackluster (although their thoughts on reading the game are understandable)
Almost50 is probably town. If he isn't, we'll figure that out later.
And finally, unwnd's recent posting kind of made up my mind on them. Most people have agreed that a certain subset of people are town (Sakura, RCS, CC, and Dunn) However, unwnd is pushing Dunn as scum without voting them, is casting shade on CC, and has avoided giving a read on RCS. They do agree with the town read on Sakura, but also mention that Sakura is easily read (Basically admitting that if they're scum they wouldn't be able to successfully get Sakura mislynched.) Several of unwnd's other scum-reads (Gamma, Vifam and WhemeStar) are or were easily agreed with; and the call for a vig on Fred the Cat is odd. unwnd has also avoided giving reads on many of the disagreed-upon slots, the only firm reads I see from them are on players where town already has a clear consensus. With all that in mind, it appears unwnd is attempting to prevent formation of a solid townblock and attempting to form as few connections between themself and other players, and as such I'm going to go ahead and VOTE: unwnd up to L-3
In post 1625, Primate wrote:I was a massive lurker for years and have lurked as both town and scum and that is *such* a scummy mindset post.
So are you saying I'm not wrong, or what? Because that makes it sound like you agree with me, you just think I'm scum for saying it.
And yeah Chemist, I probably could have said that with fewer words. And if anyone else had made those points before I would have used fewer words, but no one had pointed that out about unwnd's posting yet.
And finally Penguin, you're literally calling someone out for the same thing you're openly doing.
After reading Penguin's first post, yeah he never promised to catch up. Not sure why I missed that.
That said, you don't have to be caught up in a game to post in it; both Penguin and Chemist are effectively saying that. Chemist did straight up say they would catch up two or three times though; if you're not going to catch up please don't say you will, that's a really good way for a lurker to deflect suspicion.
In post 1643, PenguinPower wrote:Where did I say you have to be caught up in a game to post in it?
Here's the sequence of events to help you out:
Chemist posts he's 15 pages behind -> I ask "who's scum Chemist?" -> Chemist says everyone is and that he needs to read up -> I show the Super Duper Chemist Promise list -> Chemist pops back in an makes a comment -> I say, "catch up yet" -> Chemist says "Nah brah, not gonna do it."
You didn't? In my post I actually stated you were saying the opposite. To clear up any confusion, that statement was just me agreeing with 1628, it wasn't pointed at anyone.
In post 1625, Primate wrote:I was a massive lurker for years and have lurked as both town and scum and that is *such* a scummy mindset post.
So are you saying I'm not wrong, or what? Because that makes it sound like you agree with me, you just think I'm scum for saying it.
And yeah Chemist, I probably could have said that with fewer words. And if anyone else had made those points before I would have used fewer words, but no one had pointed that out about unwnd's posting yet.
And finally Penguin, you're literally calling someone out for the same thing you're openly doing.
There's three things that stood out to me. Firstly, I think your last posts have had a very nonagressive tone, you've hedged both. You did it a bit in #1014 and #1017, which I forgave more as you commented on everyone (although your only solid reads were townreads on people that lots of people are treating as town). In #1612 you do the same on everyone other than gamma and unwnd. Secondly, you mentioned the two replacements, and literally the only justification i can think of for that is that you are in scum mode, you're checking the posts that are happening and seeing the lurkers as potential lynches other than you, then as you've been lurking you've not brought that forward properly and applying the same logic to the replacements. If there's one question I want you to answer it's "Why did you mention the replacements?". Thirdly, you voted unwnd after previously saying town, and your arguments for doing so are so lazy.
I mentioned the replacements because when I made that post I thought Penguin had replaced thecoldheartedking; under that assumption both Penguin and Almost50 were in slots where my read had developed significantly. I just looked to check, and noticed that assumption was wrong, and as such my read on penguin's slot hasn't actually changed. If I'd noticed that I wouldn't have included him, just A50.
Also, my read on unwnd was not that strong of a read, I expressed heavy doubt in my own read of them in my list.
In post 1989, Oversoul wrote:I just need to determine if what happened to me is reflexive or if it is targeted.
Keep in mind we have a flipped roleblocker and your slot wasn't exactly widely town-read. (Assuming you're softing you got role-blocked and not that you copped the claimed miller or something like that.)
I'm not sure how likely scum would be to fall for that, versus how likely town would be able to come up with a test like that without knowing it's scum indicative. In other words CloudKicker, why would you use a test that isn't guaranteed, or how would you know the test is valid without being scum yourself?
Deliberately lie is not the same as not giving all information. Having said that, I doubt that role would make sense in this game after thinking about it.
I'd think that multiple kills landing on the same person is a definite possibility here though, considering who got killed. Or maybe an SK/Vig needs more then two serum to make their kill.
Oh wow, we actually have conversation now. And after reading all of that...
I would be fine with an Oversoul, Primate, or PenguinPower lynch. I think PK is town at the moment, and A50 is null for me right now.
I believe Bambi Jay and Tanaka's claims to be true. If anyone has questions just let me know.
However...
I currently would rather not have a mass-claim today. Right now that might give scum too much information to use, if I'm remembering all of the claims correctly. (Actually, let me check that real quick.)
Okay, now that over half of the playerlist has claimed, it might be time for everyone to claim. Then we can probably PoE everything down. Having said that, I'm not going to make the problem worse and claim my own role until other people agree that a massclaim is the best course of action at this point.
Right now, (and especially if I have to claim due to being up for lynching) scum probably has more information then town does. The point of the massclaim is to get information so that we can use it to PoE who scum is. Th e reason you don't usually do it is because it tells scum who to target. At this point I no longer see that as being a valid reason to not mass-claim
Yeah, if we have investigative roles then they would be able to freely share information after a mass-claim. It looks like we might have more then one protective role as well, so that should help.
With the claims we have, they already have a target list. We also had a town roleblocker, so I'm not sure if scum would also have the same role. (I mean, they might.)
In post 3151, Bambi Jay wrote:Masons with a Miller claim. Take that shiz outta here.
Dunnstral never actually claimed miller, they were going to make a joke claim in their second post but then you kind of did your thing. Everyone else just assumed it was true and Dunnstral never countered it.
Sure. I personally think Sakura should be included in the 'town'-block as well.
If you want my opinion on who to lynch, I did find it interesting how Oversoul came out of the gate swinging at Dunn though... and then just now when they started shading Penguin for their inno soft. Then again, that could also just be a town player having incredibly poor luck targeting a 'known' miller and getting millerized.
p-edit:
Huh. Missed that. Look at any time Dunn is asked to vote me though. And, you know, once Dunn shows up he can confirm it. Also, it was Oversoul that claimed to be millerized, not Sakura.
I don't think Primate is town. I might be biased though, I was more then a little bit annoyed that they directly asked me what my alignment was in early-game.
I believe Cloud is town due to an interaction with Sakura.
KidAmn I'm not sure about. They apparently started the game with an upkeep, and I'm not sure what that means for their alignment. (And yeah, they would have either had to have started the game with the upkeep or have used a role during day 1 somehow for the upkeep to hit them night 1) I don't see anything else about them that makes me think they're town though.
2035 and the surrounding conversation. It isn't a firm town read, but basically I'm content sheeping Sakura's read on CloudKicker for now.
p-edit:
If he used a day action then he's scum that used a factional ability or something of that nature to get serum early. It is a possibility but not one you would claim.
In post 3306, Oversoul wrote:Catching up but I’m in traffic. Glad I was right about
Dunn is a Miller mason thing? Weird role but glad I was right about Dunn
No. Just Mason. Neither of us have other abilities.
I'm kind of just waiting for Claude to get some reading in now.
Factional abilities are almost always redacted. Read the role, it specifically says Penguin had no personal abilities. It is possible that the teams alternate kills. It's also possible that Aeon doesn't have a kill at all. Which would make them not necessarily a threat to the Rebels.
It's also possible that events will determine whether or not Aeon is a threat to the rebellion or not.
Almost is almost definitely either Aeon tech or a Rebel. Either Penguin wanted to keep suspicion off of a partner, or they actually got an inno on them.
(reads the n3 flavor and Penguin's role flavor)
Okay that's probably an active threat to the Rebellion.
I did just have an idea for what might be the case, though I doubt it. What if different members of Aeon tech have different win conditions? Penguin's wincon doesn't say anything about Simotech, even though it's revealed to be a faction in the rules.
Oh... I just realized something.
If Aeon is town aligned and has an ability to convert town players to their alignment, that might not count as a cult. (Since cults aren't town aligned and don't usually have restrictions on who they can target)
I was talking about Penguin's win condition, I checked and it's Aeon as alignment. If it is a two-night thing to convert that would actually be decently balanced.
We really should figure out why the win condition is specifically out-numbering Rebels though, that doesn't leave room for other 3rd parties or another scum faction, specifically with that win condition Simotech can lose the moment there's more Aeon then Rebels,
even if Aeon wouldn't be able to control the lynch
If Aeon isn't a 'threat' to the rebellion and they win by outnumbering Rebels, then Simotech gets endgamed and no threats to the rebels remain. Thus, the rebels also win.
The most simple answer to 'how can Aeon win by only outnumbering the Rebels' is that there is no other group-scum. But I'm not sure how likely that is.
The point I'm trying to make is that if there is another faction then Aeon isn't trying to get the majority. It's just outnumbering Rebels, regardless of how many other players there are.
I'm kind of just waiting for the mod's response to my question at this point. I'm not sure if I actually expect a clear answer to it, but in the event we actually do get a clear answer that will tell us what to do.
p-edit:
Yes, but Aeon doesn't control the game in that situation, that would normally be a Simo victory in traditional multiball.
