Mini Normal 2095 - Game Over!

[Iconeum]

First!

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Nippleflips because I love your name

Hello friends and unknowns how are you all on this fine day?

[Iconeum]

Will we be the townblock this game or not, Datisi?

[Iconeum]

Good memes? When have I ever posted *good* memes?

Also you don't get to allow anyone in yet

[Iconeum]

Spoiler:

[Iconeum]

You know that thing we had before

Spoiler:

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Datisi

probably scum

in any case rude

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

Spoiler:

[Iconeum]

Hi everyone. Yay, I recognize Icon and Datisi. Hopefully this time if I lynch Icon it's not a mis-lynch.

VOTE: Datisi

If i'm lynched this game it will be a mislynch. So there's that.

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Nippleflips because I love your name

VOTE: Iconeum
If you love their name, how did you get it wrong?

I didn't get their name wrong, THEY got their name wrong. Missed opportunity, I tell ya.

VOTE: Tchill

He knows why

Did you explain it to him in PT? Is that how he knows?

I love this post. It has a real feel of towniness surrounding it.

VOTE: Billy Pilgrim

Why switch from one RVS vote to another RVS vote?

Why would one NOT switch votes in the Random VOTING Stage? Is there like a rule you are supposed to stick to your first random vote or otherwise ur scum?

Correct, Billy. It's not typical to switch from one RVS vote to another, because typically the goal is to get out of RVS as quickly as possible. I think it's a scumtell that you're extending RVS.

Who says RVS is bad and it has to end ASAP? I think extending RVS is actually a townie thing to do.

Discuss.

[Iconeum]

Because it's a solid foundation for future discussions and early scumreads

Later in the game when reading back during this stage, intent can become really obvious.

Town usually just goes all over the place without fear, and scum are often very reluctant to 'stand out'.

[Iconeum]

Ok give me a list of actual meaningfull content/things to discuss at game start that will help solve the game

[Iconeum]

You know what is a more solid foundation than random content? Non-random content.
You could easily have a pre-designed list of things to discuss during RVS regardless of your alignment. It's much harder to fake actual content as scum.

VOTE: Nippleflips because I love your name

VOTE: Iconeum
If you love their name, how did you get it wrong?

And more importantly, if you think it's so 'easy' to have a list of things to discuss that are actually good for the game, why didn't you come out with them yet?

[Iconeum]

Therefore, the only way to obtain reads is to talk about the game.

Incorrect.

[Iconeum]

Your tone in your last few responses to me comes across as oddly conflict-driven. May I ask if there's a reason for that?

I think your drunk posting posts felt really townie, and I think you are on the wrong track with regards to this discussion. However, I don't think you are scum for pushing what you are pushing, I simply disagree with it.

[Iconeum]

This game is already an example. Someone opened with a true RQS (unrelated to the game), and look at this discussion (game related).

More accurate would be to say 'only way to obtain reads is to talk during the game'.

[Iconeum]

I'm mixing up games now. Please ignore that last one. Having a rough day :s

[Iconeum]

Good day to you all.

So far getting positive vibes from Icon, Klick and Pilgrim. Somewhat negative vibe from Datisi.

I generally like to keep my reads and reasoning close to my chest early on, but something needs doing here. Does anyone have any slight pings as of yet?

Luca y u not pushing Datisi if the slot's pinging you?

[Iconeum]

VLA weekend

[Iconeum]

So far klick’s iso looks good. Something deep down in my jellys tells me to keep a keen eye on them tho

Something feels off about datisi slightly too, could be that she’d ride or die for pancakes

If tchill flips green then billy could be scum. I don’t think the two can ever be scum together. The level of distancing without daychat seems impossible for the two to achieve.

Like i understand I could be wrong & i understand that it is D1 & page 7 but i got pretty strong feelings about this. & in the case that Tchill flips green then we can go billy tomorrow.

We should also run close to deadline so scum has more time to interact with each other. That could help for later if tchill isn’t actually scum. It could also help to find his partner if he is.

VOTE: Emperor

This entire sequence is so filled with fence-sitting, setting up mislynches and more fencesitting it's just scum.

[Iconeum]

Nippleflips is holding a door for scum!klick open while
shading datisi while
preparing for his actual scumread tchill to flip green while
already setting up the next scumread/lynch in billy for when tchill flips green while
already setting up a world where tchill is flipping green opposed to a world where his scumread flips red

This is scum folks

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Emperor

Sorry for a lack of write up, on phone and at work. Internet on laptop has been down all weekend and is getting fixed today so should have more content as soon as back on laptop and not at work.

Icon brings up some good points. Hence the vote.

it's the gifs, right?

[Iconeum]

Almost50 replaces Robbnva

I can't believe this game isn't over yet!! You have Billy Pilgrim & Kop, both obviously REDS, and then their main rivals nowadays are the CITIZENS! Can any of you get a clue?

Can we like not do this thing we do every single game for at least the first day phase?

[Iconeum]

UNVOTE:

I have no real interest in lynching the gif master himself because, well, gifs

Spoiler:

Solid townread in Klick

VOTE: kop

terrible ISO, even worse sheep

@Nippleflips

[Iconeum]

Tbf I'm probably grasping at straws a bit, I've drank a bit too much tonight lol. But this game is stalling and needs to go somewhere

That's the whole point tbh, RVS is pointless but it's used as a starting point to get into actual game talk. I try to do my best to find something, anything, to work with from RVS. Though talking about it in this meta way probably invalidates a fair bit of that.

Someone come chat with me, I'm town and I feel like I can make myself fairly obvious town in this state lmao

These posts scream town to me

[Iconeum]

Good day to you all.

So far getting positive vibes from Icon, Klick and Pilgrim. Somewhat negative vibe from Datisi.

I generally like to keep my reads and reasoning close to my chest early on, but something needs doing here. Does anyone have any slight pings as of yet?

Positive vibes on me, negative on Datisi.

Just reading up now...

As of the start of page 7, I'm feeling pretty good about Flippy, Klick and Billy. Iconeum seemed Townie based on his start, but I may have to revisit that slot at some point, Tchill's contribution at the end of page 6 seems decent.

Klick's 151 is either townie or confident scum work. I'm leaning towards the former atm.

Can you talk to me about exactly what makes you reconsider your town ping on me between your first and second read?

And in case you were wondering about somewhat negative early Datisi vibe, it was because, by comparison to Icon, she seemed rather stilted. She appeared to be accustomed to a similar opening style, and yet it felt like she was holding back a little.

What is your read on Datisi and me now?
Who are your scumreads?

[Iconeum]

I'm especially interested in why you were townreading me when I was early-game shitposting, but withdraw that read once I got a bit more serious about things?

[Iconeum]

Fair enough

so who wants to be lynched first this game?

[Iconeum]

Your datisi scumread comes from early game holding back? Any update on that?

[Iconeum]

I think scums talking about how waffles are better than pancakes

what the fuck is wrong with you

Hmm, I read through Datisi ISO and I can see where you are coming from.

Yo Datisi I know ur lurking around here somewhere

Come and do stuff, like put your vote where it's usefull so I can get a read on you

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Datisi

[Iconeum]

oh lurking are we?

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

You've been kinda pressuring both Billy and NippleFlips, but I don't feel you actually sorting. Ur not voting their either, so I don't know what your plan is here. Could easily be you are scum trying to appear busy without committing to anything yet

[Iconeum]

Post menacing gifs all you want, it's true.

Come and do stuff, like put your vote where it's usefull so I can get a read on you

I take this that you don't have a read on me yet?

[Iconeum]

Do you think I should be townreading you?

[Iconeum]

why are you basing your entire read on me solely on how much gifs i post? i think there's plenty other stuff to talk about

[Iconeum]

VOTE: kop

can we pile up here please? 2 posts for the duration of this game isn't phenomenal, maybe we can squeeze his thoughts out of him

[Iconeum]

VOTE: kop

can we pile up here please? 2 posts for the duration of this game isn't phenomenal, maybe we can squeeze his thoughts out of him

Has Datisi’s catch-up affected your read on her?

My early game and most of D1 play revolves around activity. I pressure people into saying stuff/doing things when I feel they haven't done so. Some say that's easily fakes as scum, which is true, but I think it's a good strategy that gives town information to work with later in the game.

After I called Datisi out, all of a sudden we have a readslist and Luca engaging with Datisi over it. It hasn't exactly shifted my read to better or worse but I'm confident it will help us in the long run.

[Iconeum]

VOTE: kop

can we pile up here please? 2 posts for the duration of this game isn't phenomenal, maybe we can squeeze his thoughts out of him

Has Datisi’s catch-up affected your read on her?

I'm very curious to see her respond to your questioning

[Iconeum]

Datisi you are working on those 'devoid of life' quotes you promised, right?

[Iconeum]

Yes, I'm going through his ISO. I'm struggling how to put my thoughts into words though. Give me a moment.

You put up a readslist pretty quickly. If you mention someone has an iso that is 'devoid of life' i'd expect certain posts to have pinged you for such a remark.

Just quote them so we can see what you mean.

[Iconeum]

which posts came across as fake?

[Iconeum]

Incidentally, Flippy's reaction to the same incident looked pretty genuine, which is why I've put him around the null level. I actually dislike such tests as it causes me to doubt myself; such reactions can look so effective, yet be so easily faked by a good player

Would you otherwise be SRing him?

pedit: strong desire to put him at L-1...

So after the one post where you nulled Luca, this is your only interaction with him. Hardly an interaction town would make with someone they think is faking their posts, right?

[Iconeum]

Why pressure Billy (my solid townread) and Nippleflips (not a bad choice, but your motivation was lacking), and NOT the slot you think was 'faking' it or who's post are 'devoid of life'?

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

Datisi you are capable of much better reads then that when ur town

Town!you doesn't just read those posts and thinks 'hey, he's using excuses to post less, this means he is position himself as town leader!'

[Iconeum]

I've marked in red the parts that are pinging me. It simply seems as if he's trying to position himself in a "town-leadrer, voice of reason" position and to appear much more busy/credible than he is. Also note that these posts came after I nulled Luca.

There are multiple instances (you even marked them red) where he says he is busy and his reads are a work in progress (which they should be?)
From this you make a story that says 'he's positioning himself as town leader' that doesn't make sense

You also said you think his posts are devoid of life, which is ok to say but I disagree. You change your story to 'his posting seems fake' which is not a lesser degree of 'devoid of life', but something else entirely. You kinda had to change, because you know you can't sell his posts as empty.

VOTE: Datisi

[Iconeum]

Luca

-

Their posts seem... fake? I can't explain it well, but I just feel their posts are so devoid of life, like they're cold and calculated.

It could be just their playstyle, but it's giving me bad vibes.

Of course they should be a work in progress. But the way he keeps pointing it out.

Also I called them "fake" efore I called them "devoid of life".

Hmm indeed. You use that 'devoid of life' in a different way then I had in my mind.

Datisi am I reading you wrong here?

[Iconeum]

I think there's a decent chance all 3 of us are town here

[Iconeum]

VOTE: kop

[Iconeum]

I don't need to pocket you. I could just push all of this previous and be in a cozy little tunnel if I wanted to.

[Iconeum]

it's L-2

[Iconeum]

haha joke it was L-1

that was hammer

sue me

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

Why didn't you count for yourself?

Ofcourse real lol

[Iconeum]

Do you mind him being lynched?

[Iconeum]

Would I?

Seriously though, it's a good

ish

lynch

[Iconeum]

Nah

[Iconeum]

I need to do something to catch up to Nippleflips ya know. It even produced some good content

anyone still doesn't believe Billy is town?

[Iconeum]

I don't get what just happened except that I now hate Icon.

[Iconeum]

oh god the gif only game needs to happen

[Iconeum]

I was bored and wanted to joke around. Reaction fishing in the meanwhile.

I've done and said all I wanted to say and now it's a waiting game until people start to wake up or have access to computers. Might as well have some fun, eh.

[Iconeum]

Tbf I'm probably grasping at straws a bit, I've drank a bit too much tonight lol. But this game is stalling and needs to go somewhere

That's the whole point tbh, RVS is pointless but it's used as a starting point to get into actual game talk. I try to do my best to find something, anything, to work with from RVS. Though talking about it in this meta way probably invalidates a fair bit of that.

Someone come chat with me, I'm town and I feel like I can make myself fairly obvious town in this state lmao

These posts scream town to me

How do they scream town? They're NAI and contain almost no good content.

I disagree with this. It reads a lot like town, maybe we are looking for different things.

@luca

Datisi and icon are both nitpicking rn and they both pushed the inactive slot. The least productive thing they could have done. When did they do this?

When datisi was being pressured more than she has been the entire game so far.

Ehm, I was like the dude who actually pushed Datisi tho.

VOTE: kop

What the hell icon... A little AtE and datisi is town again?

That is a good point. The end of that interaction felt bad. Like not complete? Cos my feelings for datisi got worse by that point. Why did you change your vote icon?

Damn. But the waffle block...

I felt equally terrible about leaving Datisi be for now.

I see where tchill is coming from with his analysis, but I don't agree with him that this was a low risk look productive play from Icon. This entire gamestate has been convoluted and confused. There's been very little voting activity. The one time that Icon had cased previously some folks went over to Nips. I don't know that there's scum motivation to take that risk in the current gamestate.

'Not a lot of voting activity' did you even read the last couple pages?

Icon's motivation for Datisi:

My questioning of her is genuine. I think there's a lot of scum equity in Datisi, and her catchup post is just all scum. However, I'm a sucker for the ladies and I have a history with Datisi that makes me reconsider/hold back/use the soft gloves on her.

I thought that if I gave a bit of breathing room she would either continue to slip or start town spewing so I could better sort her.
In any case I have very little interest in letting a full slot get to D2 with TWO posts in ISO. That's bad for us.

Did I stop pressuring Datisi? Yes. Do I think Datisi is town? No.

I hope this answers all of your questions, if not, shoot.

With the inactive slot probably being replaced I feel fine with voting elsewhere

VOTE: Datisi

[Iconeum]

L-1 Datisi sweetheart

Claim

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

I think the catchup was really scummy, her readslist doesn't make a lot of sense and is very surface level. These are the reasons I pushed. I also strongly feel we should not be overlooking inactive slots, because they hurt town more in the late game then a scummy D1 slot.

My main issue reading those posts was 'devoid of life', while I thought the posts contained at least decent content and were definitely not empty.
When she reworded to 'reading fake' I thought OK, I could kinda see that.

I left her some room and went off to push out the inactive slot (which you'd be surprised at how often they actually start posting all of a sudden, so it's definitely not a waste of time).

[Iconeum]

Datisi has the most scum equity and should be the D1 lynch as it stands now, but I'd rather see more of Kop slot before that happens.

That's about as clear as I can make my thoughts rn

[Iconeum]

Do either have you have any thoughts regarding Almost50?

[Iconeum]

There's something of a 1.591,97% chance A50 and me will start scumreading each other and get into an ugly 1v1, after which it turns out both of us are town.

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

A50 is playing, sorting, doing his business. I don't think there's much to discuss about this slot at this time.

[Iconeum]

You don't seem to care that much?

First reaction to L-1 and you just go 'oh ok i'll write up final thoughts' like your lynch is set in stone?

[Iconeum]

Datisi if ur scum you should probably self vote

[Iconeum]

What do you think of your wagon? Care to dissect it?

[Iconeum]

I'm misrepping you when I say that? Really?

In your readslist you use the term 'devoid of life', later you say

@Datisi:It seemed like you were expecting scum to be discussing something more specific (

I also wasn’t aware of the no day chat

) so I was wondering what your thoughts were.

Huh. You didn't read all the game rules? And when going through my ISO later on, you didn't mention it?

pedit: yes, I would say so. Also I realize now "devoid of life" might have been too harsh, but I'll stick with fake.

I read this as you changing your explanation. It's not a misrep.

The quote you made of me, was me explaining my thoughts

at that time

as people requested I did.

[Iconeum]

Honestly, I'm not feeling too well about Icon right now. He started pushing me, and once seeing that I really had no idea what I'm doing, decided to drop it, since he could probably easily manipulate me into following him. But then realized others still want me to hang, so he had no choice but to join in.

If you think I was scum for pushing you and then dropping it, why did you follow me onto Kop?

[Iconeum]

I thought we've established that I said "fake" before I said "devoid of life". Misrep much?

We established this

after

our discussion.

[Iconeum]

Yes, and you brought it up again after we've established that

Because I was asked about my read at that time prior to us establishing that?

[Iconeum]

Still distrusting Kop, Icon and Luca the most

Only you were townreading me previously? So why the 'still'?

[Iconeum]

Town pings so far from Klick and Icon (as much as he hurts me)
Everyone else is null so far

What are peoples reads?

townlean - {icon, klick}
townlean by ignorance of setup - {emperor, billy}
null - {everyone else}

Something feels off about datisi slightly too, could be that she’d ride or die for pancakes

love ya too bud

I'd argue scum!Icon needs a sheep more than he needs a mislynch candidate right now, but alas. I'll bite for now.
VOTE: Kop
Also I think this is L-2, but I've lost count, so, pls no lolhammers k thx.

Even in that last quote you are saying i'm probably not scum just for the way i'm handling your slot.

[Iconeum]

Still distrusting Kop, Icon and Luca the most

Only you were townreading me previously? So why the 'still'?

'Still' distrusting implies you were doing so previously, which you were not

[Iconeum]

I didn't know voting for me means "OK, I could kinda see that." Wild.

Are you purposefully misreading my posts or what? I was explaining the reason for my UNVOTE on you, not the VOTE.

[Iconeum]

If you were explaining your UNVOTE, why the fuck wouldn't you say "I thought Datisi was rewording devoid of life but that was actually not the case as I realized and I decided to unvote her"?

that's what i said

[Iconeum]

If it was solely on that, you would've been lower. Though it was implied that everything else was in place

This post as well. Translated this reads as 'your play is town but I think your useage of gifs is too much and reads as scummy so i have you as null'.

[Iconeum]

Yeah. null.

because of 'gif usage'.

The important part is you were townreading everything else but 'Ico posting this many gifs takes the read lower'

[Iconeum]

@Icon, you didn't? You said "when she reworded it"?

I'm honestly confused in this discussion right now.

[Iconeum]

It's not that difficult.

I scumread your catch up post for reasons. We discussed them. You pointed out correctly that you used the word 'fake' prior to 'devoid of life'. Part of my read was that I thought you switched between those 2, which you didn't. After that was established, I didn't drop my scumread, but I thought it was opportune to push inactivity first because we are probably not gonna get to that late in the day.

[Iconeum]

I don't understand what you are going on about?

What I just wrote explains this?

[Iconeum]

I am playing a normal game in the normal queue
Wow

[Iconeum]

I'm having trouble coming around to scum!Icon in this interaction. That said, I feel like this wagon built up pretty quickly. Datisi, if you're town, do you think scum is on or off the wagon?

I already asked for a wagon analysis by Datisi, it's a good question. That whole discussion we had is (I think) based on a misunderstanding of words.

[Iconeum]

I am playing a normal game in the normal queueWow

Allow me to bring you up to speed this game

There's discussion that is pointing towards scum!Datisi, but all of this is fluff surrounding the gif wars between Nippleflips and myself which is the mainstay of this game currently.

Also, actual footage of Datisi right now:

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

VOTE: DaTitsi

VOTE: datisi

I'm not usually one to joke vote names because some mods get annoyed, and apparently I already have a target on my back with this one (I'm joking) but datits is too good to pass up.

LETS LYNCH THIS ANIMAL HELLO???????????

[Iconeum]

Dati can you post your thoughts on your wagon? Scum on or off? Who? Why?

[Iconeum]

You have no opinion on anyone but me?

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

Oh lawd. I have given my readslist yesterday. If that's what you interpret as "no opinion" then idk.

Not asking for a readslist

[Iconeum]

You weren't at L-1 yesterday either

[Iconeum]

I haven’t played Mafia for ages but I can’t ever remember seeing a specified townbloc - usually there comes a point where you naturally start trying to work with the people you strongly believe are Town - it’s rarely something that needs highlighting in of itself.

VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
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VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight

[Iconeum]

True, but my opinion hasn't changed much.

I mean, it's not that hard for town to give their thoughts on wagon. Scum benefit most from dodging this question so ur not really helping your case if ur town.

[Iconeum]

having shit arguments yesterday means nothing. being wrong means nothing, really.

If we all didnt wanna risk scum 'using' anything we say, this would be a pretty stupid game.

[Iconeum]

Looking over Datisi's ISO - it's full of game theory chat and passive questioning - this is where my slightly below null read originates from. The only real point of interest is 99 - Would scum do such a 'test'? Looking back at it, it felt a bit unnecessary of Datisi because Billy's answer to Klick's original question already provided the 'townslip'. I think I'm leaning towards this being an act from scum who are at a loss of what to do, so choose to do something that appears to be useful Town work, with the additional benefit of getting a Townie onside (which, if this scenario is accurate, would have been successful given Pilgrims TR of Datisi).

This is still very much a work in progress, but my reads are something like this at the moment:

Tchill
Klick
Pilgrim, Icon, Flippy,
Datisi

Incidentally, Flippy's reaction to the same incident looked pretty genuine, which is why I've put him around the null level. I actually dislike such tests as it causes me to doubt myself; such reactions can look so effective, yet be so easily faked by a good player

VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
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VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
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VOTE: Luca Blight
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VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight

I'll just wait until you get to the good stuff

[Iconeum]

having shit arguments yesterday means nothing.

Ah yes, except I'm at L-1 now.

not because you had shit arguments

because you had shit motivation

[Iconeum]

Trying to powerwolf-save your buddy Ali?

[Iconeum]

I could literally post at least double this, all of which I townread due to sorting, looking for reads, reconsiderations, probing, etc. All solid town stuff.

Spoiler:

I don’t believe so - this is my first mafia game for ages.

I only ask cos you said something about my meta

Yes, sometimes I look at the meta of certain players that I feel conflicted about. I find it interesting that you’ve been so much more active in this game than most others you’ve been in. Has this been a conscious change in play style?

Incidentally, Flippy's reaction to the same incident looked pretty genuine, which is why I've put him around the null level. I actually dislike such tests as it causes me to doubt myself; such reactions can look so effective, yet be so easily faked by a good player

Would you otherwise be SRing him?

pedit: strong desire to put him at L-1...

Yes, before I read back over that incident I was going to put Flippy next to you at the bottom, but the ‘townslip’ made me feel unsure of myself.

So far getting positive vibes from Icon, Klick and Pilgrim. Somewhat negative vibe from Datisi.

care to expand a little bit with specifics? Cuz I honestly had no vibes at all from any of the posts I read so far (posts before this one I'm quoting)

I expanded on the Pilgrim vibes in 57. I felt positively about Icon early on mainly due to the fact he seemed to be posting without thinking too much (I’m aware some players can do this as scum, but it’s a half-decent starting point). The vibes about Klick were mainly due to the ‘drunken’ posting. Again, this could be a clever scum move but I felt it was more likely to come from a Townie.

And in case you were wondering about somewhat negative early Datisi vibe, it was because, by comparison to Icon, she seemed rather stilted. She appeared to be accustomed to a similar opening style, and yet it felt like she was holding back a little.

[Iconeum]

I'll just wait until you get to the good stuff

ok icon im pretty much caught up
what were you refering here that would make Luca not scum?

I'm also kinda interested in your opinion on Icon/Datisi from the last 5? ish pages

Datisi is at L-1, you should probably take a stance on the lead wagon if ur caught up

[Iconeum]

wow you can come up with 8/46 posts

and how many did you quote? 2? 3?/48

[Iconeum]

Ali, I have great respect for you as a player so if you think I (and the rest of the wagon) think we are wrong, disprove it please

[Iconeum]

Ali you've read the game yes?

Datisi wa being silent, I called her out to post something, she posted a (not so great) readslist and is now being pushed for the list and for her reactions to it. You call it a bad wagon, but have failed to point what is so awfull about it.

[Iconeum]

Datisi if you actually scumread me for my progression there you would never ever as town have followed me onto Kop there

[Iconeum]

Ali you've read the game yes?

Datisi wa being silent, I called her out to post something, she posted a (not so great) readslist and is now being pushed for the list and for her reactions to it. You call it a bad wagon, but have failed to point what is so awfull about it.

You said I wasn't pushed for the readslist though, but for the motivation?

yep

[Iconeum]

Icon so how do you start from 369 and 371 to end on 490

already discussed this

[Iconeum]

Icon so how do you start from 369 and 371 to end on 490

already discussed this

[Iconeum]

I've already explained that I pushed Datisi, why I backed off when I did it, and why I hopped back on

[Iconeum]

If you truly want to push me over this, it's not gonna end well I can already promise you this.

Especially Ali, if you choose to progress down this path instead of talking about the actual current discussions.

[Iconeum]

I've already explained that I pushed Datisi, why I backed off when I did it, and why I hopped back on

quote it for me?

Just reread the last part of my ISO

I know the timing is bad, but I'm leaving now (as I do every single day at this time, so don't even try to pin this on me :p)

I'm back tomorrow

[Iconeum]

If you truly want to push me over this, it's not gonna end well I can already promise you this.

Especially Ali, if you choose to progress down this path instead of talking about the actual current discussions.

I'm trying to figure out the game????????

Me 2. And I'm trying to sort you as well

[Iconeum]

Alisae - either you're playing some convoluted long con or you're Town, you had a perfect opportunity to jump onto my wagon
Billy, Klick, A50
Tchill
---
Emperor - Icon is also around here somewhere but I don't know what to make of him rn
---
Luca

I agree with you on Ali here. If I hadn't called you out and pushed you, would you be townreading me more?

Ali, I have great respect for you as a player so if you think I (and the rest of the wagon) think we are wrong, disprove it please

also dude
where does this respect come from???????
I'm not all that amazing (I am fun tho) and I have a greater reputation as a mod then a player.

From past game.

And your Datisi read doesn’t make sense to me; I would expect a townie in your position to have at least some suspicion of that slot, yet you seem to have zero.

Also agree with this. More on this later.

Spoiler: Ali's 636

========
Scum
========

Luca - His whole ISO sucks. Nothing in there is actually substanial at all. All of his reads come across as making stuff up on the fly (a lot of times when he is talking about a read, he gives himself room for said read to go either way). He's not really taking any risks and is in general playing really safe. I really want to see Luca go after something instead of just do nothing. Because a lot of what his ISO is nothing. And anything that like, remotely looks like analysis is really surface level stuff.
54 is just a gut scummy start mostly because I don't like the fact he has to feel like he has to have a stance first thing.
His shade in 85 is bad and comes across as scummy.
The Klick stance in 214 just sucks because the way he presents it, it really seems like it could go either way depending on what happens.
224 kind of just sucks. I'm not buying the "scum who is at a loss of what to do" narative at all because when I was reading that, I was generally liking that interaction with Billy.
318 is bad because its him just saying that Klick is town over and over again. The individual points aren't anything thats new. Also in the way its presented itself, I dislike this because he's just saying the samething over and over again. Like, he's trying to look like he's solving, but nothing in that post is actually adding anything new to the game. Its just non-stop praise and I don't like it.
Also apparently, accoriding to you, 325 contains content but it doesn't? Like, that can be faked.
488 is opportunistic. The narative being built here sucks. The vote is just scum.

Icon - I like Datisi so I don't like how Icon is pushing it. I hate how I'm immediately attacked in 593 while I'm catching up. I also kinda feel like Icon is definitely trying to control the game in a way I really don't like. Like, the threat in 618 kinda comes across as "how dare you question my authority." I state a scumread on Luca and that I'm not completely buying the Datisi wagon and I'm being attacked for it because its "not current" like????? Also, I'm really not buying how his confidence level goes from "maybe we're all town" to "I have this super confident read on Datisi. I'm using words to make it look like I WAS uncertain to make it look like I'm trying to solve, but I actually just had this really confident scumread the whole time hahahaha." Not to mention what the original fuss was over, is completely irrelevant. "Devoid of Life" and "Fake" who cares they both mean the samething. It seemed just really semantic to me.

OK. Now that I know what pings you about Luca, why do you think Icon is scum rather than town making a bad push?

P.S. I am extra careful with icon because we do tend to hard tunnel each other as town .. both of us. So beare with me on this one, please.

My Icon read is mostly based on the fact that while I was catching up, I felt like he was threatening me instead of trying to figure out my motivations in a less threatening way. If I didn’t feel like I was being threatened, then I would have probably just said that the read was PoE or just wait a day or 2 later where the read would

eventually

sort itself out.

Ali, I was reading you while you were catching up, and from the very first few posts I had a feeling you were gonna step in and protect Datisi. I just knew it. They way you handled the current gamestate (focusing on Luca rather then the actual current wagon) didn't feel right to me, and you said 'i'm caught up' without ever even touching on Datisi. I was mildly annoyed by this, and I started calling you out.

When you then started shifting perspectives and onto a scumread from me, I tend to overreact but also because I saw it coming from a mile away. You think I'm trying to control town? Well, maybe I am. I'm that kind of player. Especially in games where I feel I'm

really

into, I tend to try and control gamestate. Also I think I do this way more often as town then as scum, because of the confidence it takes.

My main issue is how easily you brushed the Datisi wagon aside, and I strongly felt that it could easily be just you/Datisi for scumteam.
However, I'm working really hard on my tunneling problems that I have and I'm open to anyone's suggestions so let's do this

[Iconeum]

How does everyone feel about Nippleflips?

I didn't scumread him previously, but the longer this day goes on the more obvious his sidelining becomes.

From my experience in mislynches (and being mislynched), scum often tends to be exactly where this dude is: participating without actually discussing

[Iconeum]

I don't share Ali's scumread on Luca

[Iconeum]

Right now i've got an 'all or nothing' read on Ali. It's either Ali/Datisi or town!Ali.
I'm completely biased because of the way Ali handled the Datisi affair.

But there are a lot of worlds where this comes from town!Ali so i'm not touching that today.

I still think Datisi is the correct lynch however. Don't think I want to lynch outside of (Datisi/Nippleflips) today because I share the sentiment by Luca.

[Iconeum]

this rebuttal sucks vote this shit

it doesn't and your case sucks

[Iconeum]

Like seriously
If you’re actually town
Why would you give a fuck about post 85
Its so insignificant in the grand scheme of things that I could make up any kind of bullshit I want about any post that was super early in the game and he would be furious about it
Like, don’t you think town here would think “Okay, maybe its not so important and I’ll just move on”
Instead, it gives scum!Luca an opportunity to make a really big deal about something that isn’t really a big deal at all

I'd make a big deal out of it too. You call him out for shading in that post, and there's literally nothing there. He asks you to explain it and you are dodging/refusing to go into it. Like, part of your case on him is literally a lie on your part, of shading in itself, or just blatant misrep. Take your pick.

it's not insignificant

[Iconeum]

Most of the people on Datisi wagon (and we literally can't all be scum) seem to think there's enough to lynch Datisi over.
You haven't exactly tried to convince us it's a bad case, even though you have stated your reason why you think Dat is town.

Other then trying to force-feed your Luca read upon this game, there's very little effort to dig deeper into why Datisi was being wagoned, not the motivation behind players on the Datisi wagon (something Datisi is refusing to look into herself).

[Iconeum]

You can literally think it's a poor case, but questioning people's motives for joining a case is often a lot more worth then an actual case.

Deliberately putting out a 'bad' case on someone is even a way of scumhunting (trying to see who follows you on and for what reasons).

[Iconeum]

I kind of still have my scumread on Icon tbh
I kind of don’t think his Datisi read is natural at this point

[Iconeum]

Ali I think you came into this game with the intention of helping Datisi and steering away from her lynch, into a scumread of me.

There, my honest thoughts.

[Iconeum]

If a game is developing towards the lynch of player x, it's only natural that a player catching up devotes time and attention to that. Especially with player x being at L-1. You saying you don't have to do that, or do it later and 'plenty of time' is just not natural.

[Iconeum]

Datisi, we've been over this already.
I called you out, you responded with a readslist. I didn't like it and I pressured you. When we reached the conclusion of our discussion, I wanted to pressure the inactive slot so it doesnt go to waste. There's rarely time to push inactives during late day, so it was then or not at all. When it became clear that more people wanted to push Datisi, and that the slot was going to get replaced anyway, I saw no reason to continue pressuring there.

During all of this I never lost my scumread of Datisi, but it became less sure. Hence my remark 'could be town'. That's not the same as 'townread'.
What exactly feels so bad about this to you?

[Iconeum]

Ali I think you came into this game with the intention of helping Datisi and steering away from her lynch, into a scumread of me.

There, my honest thoughts.

Who is Datisi’s partner
Hint: Don’t say its me

Additionally
Who is scum if me and Datisi are town

I'm actually playing with the idea that you could be scum defending town!datisi. However, as I said, I think there's a lot of times when you play like this as town, and that scum!you idea is biased because you are defending my scumread.

As I said, Nippleflips seems to be floating beneath the radar for the most of second part of the day so far. I don't have good scumreads outside of Datisi so if i'm going to look elsewhere it's there.

[Iconeum]

Also, pre-flip associatives and especially D1 is not a real thing. Though my pressuring of Kop is to force possible asso's later in the game.

[Iconeum]

Billy/Luca/Klick are townreads

A50/Ali I hope I will be able to sort later in the game, but I think there's a good chance town

So PoE brings me to Datisi (+my actual scumread)/Nippleflips (very little gamesolving intent)/Tchill (I need to reread him I can't remember a single thing he said or did this game)

[Iconeum]

Can we talk about the Nipplegifs?

[Iconeum]

VOTE: datisi

Neeed I say why

?!?!

I think not!!!

When I was asking Datisi about motivation behind the votes on her wagon, I was looking for stuff like this. If Datisi is town, this is the kind of scum hop-on we need to be looking out for.

[Iconeum]

Even though that was only like the second (?) vote, scum would like to park early enough so I could see this coming from scum

[Iconeum]

We've been over this, but I'm not buying what you're selling. "When it became clear that more people wanted to push Datisi" sounds opportunistic as hell. You say your SR became "less sure". Is it still less sure? Back to the original? Even stronger?

You couldn't afford my stuff anyway.



'Diverting attention' is a bit harsh, especially after you chose to start with something entirely different then the main wagon of the moment, no?

It was opportunistic. I was pushing Datisi, I felt like I couldn't do much more there so poked elsewhere. When the wagon gained steam I saw an opportunity to put more stress on Datisi. Do you think opportunism only comes from scum?

I think Datisi is a good lynch today. I don't have a scumread that is stronger then her, but I have a pool that I'm willing to pressure or even lynch in today.

[Iconeum]

Can we talk about the Nipplegifs?

I mean
I won't say no, my read on flippynips is out there.
But I think we need tchill, klick, and flippygifs to start posting.

I read your townreasoning for Nipplegifs, and don't necesarilly disagree with what you wrote. But I think his general ISO has a lack of gamesolving/pushing intent, and a LOT of fluff.

[Iconeum]

You wanna compare Luca's vote on Datisi to Nipplegifs? OK

(for some reason the quotes are messed up in the spoiler, but it should be readable either way

Behold the sorting/questioning between Luca and Datisi prior to Luca's vote there. I read this as a natural town-motivated scumread that developped

Spoiler:

And in case you were wondering about somewhat negative early Datisi vibe, it was because, by comparison to Icon, she seemed rather stilted. She appeared to be accustomed to a similar opening style, and yet it felt like she was holding back a little.

At this point it’s still early given we’ve heard almost nothing from Kop and I haven’t yet got a read on Almost50. From the players who have been active from the start, I would consider lynching Datisi or Flippy, with a preference for a Datisi Lynch.

VOTE: kop

can we pile up here please? 2 posts for the duration of this game isn't phenomenal, maybe we can squeeze his thoughts out of him

Has Datisi’s catch-up affected your read on her?

@Datisi: It seems odd then that you preferred a Tchill Lynch over a Luca Lynch earlier in the day if I’ve been giving you bad vibes the whole time.

This was on page 6:

Slight preference to vote for Tchill over Luca, but neither are pinging me as scum yet.

So I wasn’t pinging her as scum and she preferred to Lynch Tchill, yet now she is saying I’ve been giving her bad vibes and she was waiting to see if I would change....doesn’t quite add up.

@Datisi:It seemed like you were expecting scum to be discussing something more specific (I also wasn’t aware of the no day chat) so I was wondering what your thoughts were.

Also Datisi, are you saying my posts have become faker/more devoid of life since you gave that opinion on page 6?

Busy atm so can’t keep up with the live chat, so bear with me.

@Datisi:It seemed like you were expecting scum to be discussing something more specific (

I also wasn’t aware of the no day chat

) so I was wondering what your thoughts were.

Huh. You didn't read all the game rules? And when going through my ISO later on, you didn't mention it?

pedit: yes, I would say so. Also I realize now "devoid of life" might have been too harsh, but I'll stick with fake.

I actually did read the game rules but I forgot about it.

What should I have mentioned?

I realize that "devoid of life" was a wrong way to put it, and I apologize if I did come across as too harsh.

Spoiler: marked in red

I’m very busy this weekend but will try and catch-up every now and then.

Catching up presently.

Just reading up now...

As of the start of page 7, I'm feeling pretty good about Flippy, Klick and Billy. Iconeum seemed Townie based on his start,

but I may have to revisit that slot at some point

, Tchill's contribution at the end of page 6 seems decent.

Klick's 151 is either townie or confident scum work. I'm leaning towards the former atm.

Tchili mid page 8 is either showing genuine Townie emotion or is a skilled scum player - it reminds me of my own frustration in past games.

Just skimmed the last couple of pages - gonna get myself more comfortable for some deeper reading. Right now I'm not really scumreading any of the active players, which is pretty rare for me.

The only one that falls slightly below the null line is probably Datisi based on her content, or lack thereof. Hopefully we get some replacements in soon.

Gonna read back again now.

I also agree with the 'trying to look Town' bit regarding the topic of whether we should use the full day or cut it short.

Also, as a side point, I never understand why, as a Townie, you would tell scum what you're looking out for (in this case, specifically the interactions between possible scum partners). This isn't necessarily AI in of itself as I see this kind of thing all the time, but it's just something I feel is counter-productive.

Looking over Datisi's ISO - it's full of game theory chat and passive questioning - this is where my slightly below null read originates from. The only real point of interest is 99 - Would scum do such a 'test'? Looking back at it, it felt a bit unnecessary of Datisi because Billy's answer to Klick's original question already provided the 'townslip'. I think I'm leaning towards this being an act from scum who are at a loss of what to do, so choose to do something that appears to be useful Town work, with the additional benefit of getting a Townie onside (which, if this scenario is accurate, would have been successful given Pilgrims TR of Datisi).

This is still very much a work in progress,

but my reads are something like this at the moment:

Tchill
Klick
Pilgrim, Icon, Flippy,
Datisi

Incidentally, Flippy's reaction to the same incident looked pretty genuine, which is why I've put him around the null level. I actually dislike such tests as it causes me to doubt myself; such reactions can look so effective, yet be so easily faked by a good player

So far getting positive vibes from Icon, Klick and Pilgrim. Somewhat negative vibe from Datisi.

care to expand a little bit with specifics? Cuz I honestly had no vibes at all from any of the posts I read so far (posts before this one I'm quoting)

I expanded on the Pilgrim vibes in 57. I felt positively about Icon early on mainly due to the fact he seemed to be posting without thinking too much

(I’m aware some players can do this as scum, but it’s a half-decent starting point)

. The vibes about Klick were mainly due to the ‘drunken’ posting.

Again, this could be a clever scum move but I felt it was more likely to come from a Townie.

Looking after my kid at the moment so hard for me to fully check back,

but I think I’ve covered most of the above already. I had a very slight townread on you based on the opening. By the time I made my catch-up post you hadn’t posted for like three days, nor had your ‘serious’ work at that point done much to give me a read on you either way, so I had you as null. Recently I’ve agreed with your points of view on Nippy (or rather you agreed with mine) and on Klick, plus I’ve seen some positive game advancing work from you, so I have you as a town-lean. I haven’t Iso’d you yet but that’s where i currently stand. The rest of your questions I believe I’ve covered already if you look back.

I've marked in red the parts that are pinging me. It simply seems as if he's trying to position himself in a "town-leadrer, voice of reason" position and to appear much more busy/credible than he is. Also note that these posts came after I nulled Luca.

pedit: as I said, I was willing to give him more time. I'm still not certain in this, but you've forced me to out my thoughts, so whatever.

pedit2: Billy and Emperor had single posts that pinged me more, and I was willing to jump on those to see what they mean. Luca has been slowly pinging me across the game.

It feels here like you’ve just zoomed in on the least important parts of my posts and disregarded all the necessary stuff. Do you have anything to say about the actual content of my work? The 224 and 325 examples are particularly laughable for how you ignore all the actual information and highlight the only part that fits your narrative.

Iso'ing Icon.

I can see a fair bit of Town-motivation behind a lot of his work. The only only thing I don't get is what changed his mind on Datisi at around the 371 mark? His questioning of Datisi felt genuine, but I don't get what caused him to ease up on it.

VOTE: Datisi

The more I look at that reads list of hers the more I feel like it isn't genuine. I feel like it was always her intention to jump on the Kop wagon eventually but she was concerned about picking the easy target, so she stuck a half-hearted vote on me instead and then allowed herself to be

talked into

joining the easy wagon.

[Iconeum]

'Diverting attention' is a bit harsh, especially after you chose to start with something entirely different then the main wagon of the moment, no?

I started by placing a vote on Luca, but off you go.

?

[Iconeum]

If you compare NippleGiffies vote to Luca's, you can CLEARLY see Luca has been developping this read over the course of the game.
Flips just posts fluff and votes, while not participating yet in the actual discussion about it (but if I look back it feels like a lot more time has passed then actually is so yeah)

[Iconeum]

792. I started off by commenting on Luca and putting a vote there.

Ali voted Luca several hundred posts earlier, so I don't know what you are going on about here.

[Iconeum]

792. I started off by commenting on Luca and putting a vote there.

Ali voted Luca several hundred posts earlier, so I don't know what you are going on about here.

I read back, I swear to god I thought Ali made that post

[Iconeum]

i think i am going to continue my rejuv run instead of play this game

Ur probably right about waiting for input from the other 3/4 of the players

[Iconeum]

Actual footage of current gamestate

[Iconeum]

I can't seem to find an anime gif to tell you that ur gifs sucks
i'm sad

[Iconeum]

Ali, why you run away after showing you why Luca's vote is so much better then Nipplegifs? Don't you wanna talk about that?

[Iconeum]

you lie

[Iconeum]

Luca has multiple posts running up to his vote, questioning and sorting Datisi to come to a scumread.

Nipples went 'lez do dis'

[Iconeum]

You wanna compare Luca's vote on Datisi to Nipplegifs? OK

(for some reason the quotes are messed up in the spoiler, but it should be readable either way

Behold the sorting/questioning between Luca and Datisi prior to Luca's vote there. I read this as a natural town-motivated scumread that developped

Spoiler:

And in case you were wondering about somewhat negative early Datisi vibe, it was because, by comparison to Icon, she seemed rather stilted. She appeared to be accustomed to a similar opening style, and yet it felt like she was holding back a little.

At this point it’s still early given we’ve heard almost nothing from Kop and I haven’t yet got a read on Almost50. From the players who have been active from the start, I would consider lynching Datisi or Flippy, with a preference for a Datisi Lynch.

VOTE: kop

can we pile up here please? 2 posts for the duration of this game isn't phenomenal, maybe we can squeeze his thoughts out of him

Has Datisi’s catch-up affected your read on her?

@Datisi: It seems odd then that you preferred a Tchill Lynch over a Luca Lynch earlier in the day if I’ve been giving you bad vibes the whole time.

This was on page 6:

Slight preference to vote for Tchill over Luca, but neither are pinging me as scum yet.

So I wasn’t pinging her as scum and she preferred to Lynch Tchill, yet now she is saying I’ve been giving her bad vibes and she was waiting to see if I would change....doesn’t quite add up.

@Datisi:It seemed like you were expecting scum to be discussing something more specific (I also wasn’t aware of the no day chat) so I was wondering what your thoughts were.

Also Datisi, are you saying my posts have become faker/more devoid of life since you gave that opinion on page 6?

Busy atm so can’t keep up with the live chat, so bear with me.

@Datisi:It seemed like you were expecting scum to be discussing something more specific (

I also wasn’t aware of the no day chat

) so I was wondering what your thoughts were.

Huh. You didn't read all the game rules? And when going through my ISO later on, you didn't mention it?

pedit: yes, I would say so. Also I realize now "devoid of life" might have been too harsh, but I'll stick with fake.

I actually did read the game rules but I forgot about it.

What should I have mentioned?

I realize that "devoid of life" was a wrong way to put it, and I apologize if I did come across as too harsh.

Spoiler: marked in red

I’m very busy this weekend but will try and catch-up every now and then.

Catching up presently.

Just reading up now...

As of the start of page 7, I'm feeling pretty good about Flippy, Klick and Billy. Iconeum seemed Townie based on his start,

but I may have to revisit that slot at some point

, Tchill's contribution at the end of page 6 seems decent.

Klick's 151 is either townie or confident scum work. I'm leaning towards the former atm.

Tchili mid page 8 is either showing genuine Townie emotion or is a skilled scum player - it reminds me of my own frustration in past games.

Just skimmed the last couple of pages - gonna get myself more comfortable for some deeper reading. Right now I'm not really scumreading any of the active players, which is pretty rare for me.

The only one that falls slightly below the null line is probably Datisi based on her content, or lack thereof. Hopefully we get some replacements in soon.

Gonna read back again now.

I also agree with the 'trying to look Town' bit regarding the topic of whether we should use the full day or cut it short.

Also, as a side point, I never understand why, as a Townie, you would tell scum what you're looking out for (in this case, specifically the interactions between possible scum partners). This isn't necessarily AI in of itself as I see this kind of thing all the time, but it's just something I feel is counter-productive.

Looking over Datisi's ISO - it's full of game theory chat and passive questioning - this is where my slightly below null read originates from. The only real point of interest is 99 - Would scum do such a 'test'? Looking back at it, it felt a bit unnecessary of Datisi because Billy's answer to Klick's original question already provided the 'townslip'. I think I'm leaning towards this being an act from scum who are at a loss of what to do, so choose to do something that appears to be useful Town work, with the additional benefit of getting a Townie onside (which, if this scenario is accurate, would have been successful given Pilgrims TR of Datisi).

This is still very much a work in progress,

but my reads are something like this at the moment:

Tchill
Klick
Pilgrim, Icon, Flippy,
Datisi

Incidentally, Flippy's reaction to the same incident looked pretty genuine, which is why I've put him around the null level. I actually dislike such tests as it causes me to doubt myself; such reactions can look so effective, yet be so easily faked by a good player

So far getting positive vibes from Icon, Klick and Pilgrim. Somewhat negative vibe from Datisi.

care to expand a little bit with specifics? Cuz I honestly had no vibes at all from any of the posts I read so far (posts before this one I'm quoting)

I expanded on the Pilgrim vibes in 57. I felt positively about Icon early on mainly due to the fact he seemed to be posting without thinking too much

(I’m aware some players can do this as scum, but it’s a half-decent starting point)

. The vibes about Klick were mainly due to the ‘drunken’ posting.

Again, this could be a clever scum move but I felt it was more likely to come from a Townie.

Looking after my kid at the moment so hard for me to fully check back,

but I think I’ve covered most of the above already. I had a very slight townread on you based on the opening. By the time I made my catch-up post you hadn’t posted for like three days, nor had your ‘serious’ work at that point done much to give me a read on you either way, so I had you as null. Recently I’ve agreed with your points of view on Nippy (or rather you agreed with mine) and on Klick, plus I’ve seen some positive game advancing work from you, so I have you as a town-lean. I haven’t Iso’d you yet but that’s where i currently stand. The rest of your questions I believe I’ve covered already if you look back.

I've marked in red the parts that are pinging me. It simply seems as if he's trying to position himself in a "town-leadrer, voice of reason" position and to appear much more busy/credible than he is. Also note that these posts came after I nulled Luca.

pedit: as I said, I was willing to give him more time. I'm still not certain in this, but you've forced me to out my thoughts, so whatever.

pedit2: Billy and Emperor had single posts that pinged me more, and I was willing to jump on those to see what they mean. Luca has been slowly pinging me across the game.

It feels here like you’ve just zoomed in on the least important parts of my posts and disregarded all the necessary stuff. Do you have anything to say about the actual content of my work? The 224 and 325 examples are particularly laughable for how you ignore all the actual information and highlight the only part that fits your narrative.

Iso'ing Icon.

I can see a fair bit of Town-motivation behind a lot of his work. The only only thing I don't get is what changed his mind on Datisi at around the 371 mark? His questioning of Datisi felt genuine, but I don't get what caused him to ease up on it.

VOTE: Datisi

The more I look at that reads list of hers the more I feel like it isn't genuine. I feel like it was always her intention to jump on the Kop wagon eventually but she was concerned about picking the easy target, so she stuck a half-hearted vote on me instead and then allowed herself to be

talked into

joining the easy wagon.

I MANAGED TO FIX IT THANKS TO DATISI

[Iconeum]

Luca has multiple posts running up to his vote, questioning and sorting Datisi to come to a scumread.

Nipples went 'lez do dis'

Yeah you just described why Luca's vote more scum then Nipples good job

[Iconeum]

Sure town can do that

but Luca's progression is also what a town does when looking to sort so...

[Iconeum]

its not

[Iconeum]

yeah it was that weird game

don't remember specifically if it was mikan

but fuck multiball

you were a lot more screamy that game to prove your point (you were scum) and i don't see that here

[Iconeum]

Datisi how are you reading Ali? Put it in a vacuum, pretend you are conftown cop cleared and have to Judge Ali here and now.

[Iconeum]

yeah it was that weird game

don't remember specifically if it was mikan

but fuck multiball

you were a lot more screamy that game to prove your point (you were scum) and i don't see that here

it was definitely mikan and I don’t take multiball seriously
Also that was kinda a roleplaying alt except I’m bad at sticking to gimmicks like that

I still remember how tough you were to fight, and me still remembering means it left an impression.

[Iconeum]

Datisi, how pressured did you feel to make a readslist after I called you out?

[Iconeum]

It's the lack of vote despite Luca scumreading Datisi? Ali is this what you mean as well?

[Iconeum]

I do the same thing as town sometimes tho. Sort someone, build a read and end up scumreading them voting there 'overdue'

[Iconeum]

Remember, at this time you still weren’t that big of a scumread; it was only after this episode (after I had time to digest what had occurred) that that was the case.[/quote]

before I was in the game Luca had around 46 posts
he has made 50+ posts since then
most of those consists of him continuing to do nothing and me fucking with him

Activity is NAI
Obviously you will be more active when engaged upon

Icon what's your tchill read?

town

I like the fact that there's meaning behind the Luca stance in the "wording" of his reads.

Of the 2 you definitely have more solid foundation with your Luca read imo (even though I do have him as one of my stronger tr's atm)

Have you reread the entire game? Specifically the first 15 pages?

I remember wagon formation specifically having an impact on my SR's early. At least the SR's I've been pushing as of late.

Datisi and Billy.

If Luca

The interaction between datisi and icon has left a terrible taste in my mouth with both of them.

If we lynch Luca and he flips town I will be extremely annoyed... Plus the idea that datisi AND iconeum will probably both still be in play at the beginning of D2 isn't a pleasant one to me. If one or both are town they've already proven they don't care voting with players they just believed were scum. That type makes for great scum TOOLS imo.

[Iconeum]

*If luca is such a TR to you, why are you not defending your read then?

I'm not sure what you mean by that last quote but I called Datisi out why she was so willing to vote with her scumread (me) at the time

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Alisae

[Iconeum]

Ali you invited me to your dance a while ago. Invitation accepted. Lets go.





You think you can fucking shade me like this? I don't care if you are playing the douche deliberately or not, ur dead.

[Iconeum]

like the timing of Luca's vote is so fucking awful
CAN WE LYNCH HIM ALREADY

I literally do that as town more then I do it as scum. Because as scum you are much more aware of these things and you want to make it look good.

[Iconeum]

You wanna know what's unnatural? You coming into this game with a tunnel on Luca even before you caught up.

[Iconeum]

It's the lack of vote despite Luca scumreading Datisi? Ali is this what you mean as well?

It's that coupled with the overall fence sitting. Early on he's making reads, but he's leaving himself ways out of them. It's like he's looking for someone else to sign off. It's like he doesn't want to be out on his own. I get that we were all confused in the early game, but it came off that he didn't want to be pinned down to anything. Like if you asked for clarification he could easily revise it. When Ali had clipped those earlier posts of his it was fresh in my mind, so seeing the way he joined the Datisi wagon when he had been shading and shading and scum reading and then it was a wagon and he could join, it felt scummy.

omg this is literally how i was reading the game when i was reading it

dam
these are some good posts dude

You want to save your analysis until you have time to do it properly, just like I did, so surely you can relate to my situation after all.

If this ain't the most pockety bullshit I've ever seen

Datisi, if you thought that quote was pocketing bullshit, who do you feel about these? I know it's normal to townread the player(s) who are defending you, but what are your thoughts here?

[Iconeum]

Lucas's early game was way better than anyone else's from my perspective.

talk to me about it?
When I read the game I found that Luca didn't really do anything significant or substantial like at all

What was substantially GOOD about the other players?

So far I've seen icon and datisi vote every which way a wagon was.

I want evidence of this. Because the way I see it, I fucking pushed the Datisi wagon. Like, it wouldn't even be there if it wasn't for me. Same goes for Kop.

[Iconeum]

Here I'll do it myself.

Icon votes (RVS not counting):

227

I case and vote Emperor. This was the second vote for Nipples at that time, after Tchill.

320

My first push on the inactive slot Kop. This clearly shows I always had the intention of pushing that.
This is the second vote, after A50.

331

Here I started calling out Datisi, felt like the slot was being a bit inactive and was again second, after Tchill.

344

I go back to Kop after having engaged with Datisi, I was happy that we now had content to work with. So I go do what I do every game D1, push and poke for content.

In 366 I go back on Datisi, but in between these votes I never stopped engaging and questioning/sorting Datisi. It's not that strange of a hop-back as you are trying to make it appear.

372 I go back to Kop. This shows just how much trouble I have making up my mind about Datisi.

In 490 I put my vote back on Datisi AFTER I got confirmation that Kop was being replaced and it was futile to pressure there.

If you are saying these are all sheep votes/following the popular wagons, it's a misrep.

[Iconeum]

Iconeum bruh
Do you

really

want to do this?
Like, really?
Do you really think this is in your best interest?

You pushed hard against Datisi wagon without bothering to explain why it was town, until you were pushed to do so. You came into this game with a clear tunnel on Luca, before you caught up. You are already making associatives D1 pre flip. You are unwilling to consider anything else. You are being a douche.
You are being manipulative and pockety towards both Datisi and Billy, with an attempt to do the same with Nipplegifs.

Do I think this is in my best interest? Most likely not.
Do I think it's in the best interest for town to push against you? Absofuckinglutely

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

Problemsolving 101

Lynch Alisae

[Iconeum]

Why the hell do you unvote me, when my wagon is just getting momentum again, and vote Ali, who has no votes on them?

Because fuck the way Ali is playing.

[Iconeum]

And all the other shit I posted

[Iconeum]

quality pagetop right there

[Iconeum]

Also, you keep saying how I have the most scum equity and how I need to be the Day 1 lynch. Why the hell do you unvote me, when my wagon is just getting momentum again, and vote Ali, who has no votes on them?

Let's talk about this. Why the hell WOULD I unvote and revote you so many times if I am scum? If I'm scum and I want you lynched, i push hard. It wouldn't be a far stretch for scum!Icon to be tunneling you at any point. If you are town and think i'm scum, what is my motivation to move away 'just when the wagon was getting momentum again'?

Wouldn't that be a bit counterproductive to my mission then?

[Iconeum]

Could it be I'm genuinly doubting what do you with you, and am willing to look/push elsewhere today?

[Iconeum]

You can call me indecisive and vote hopping if you like, but those aren't scum traits.

[Iconeum]

Alisae's ketchup analysis

565 immediately pushes against someone voting Datisi
574 it took until post 85 (Luca) to start the tunnel.

I haven’t played Mafia for ages but I can’t ever remember seeing a specified townbloc - usually there comes a point where you naturally start trying to work with the people you strongly believe are Town - it’s rarely something that needs highlighting in of itself.

This appears to be a 50x repeat vote worthy offensive post because of? Reasons? Luca explains his thoughts that he thinks a townblock should start naturally instead of forced. I don't see the scum motivation in this post but apparently Ali does.

584 again the 50x vote against Luca, again without a single word of explanation. Let's see

Looking over Datisi's ISO - it's full of game theory chat and passive questioning - this is where my slightly below null read originates from. The only real point of interest is 99 - Would scum do such a 'test'? Looking back at it, it felt a bit unnecessary of Datisi because Billy's answer to Klick's original question already provided the 'townslip'. I think I'm leaning towards this being an act from scum who are at a loss of what to do, so choose to do something that appears to be useful Town work, with the additional benefit of getting a Townie onside (which, if this scenario is accurate, would have been successful given Pilgrims TR of Datisi).

This is still very much a work in progress, but my reads are something like this at the moment:

Tchill
Klick
Pilgrim, Icon, Flippy,
Datisi

Incidentally, Flippy's reaction to the same incident looked pretty genuine, which is why I've put him around the null level. I actually dislike such tests as it causes me to doubt myself; such reactions can look so effective, yet be so easily faked by a good player

Oh, could it be a Luca post directed against Datisi? Big surprise.
Luca rightfully so calls out Datisi for having a bad ISO (something she doesn't even really counter because she knows she hasn't had any good reads yet). Puts up an early read list and calls it a 'work in progress' AS IT SHOULD BE TO ANYONE AT THIS STAGE OF THE GAME.
He 'could' have voted Datisi here, but didn't. This is being put forth as a scumclaim, and I say I don't vote there as town either 100% of the time.

If only Ali would explain the scumread that would help, right?

591 another 50x vote against Luca, again NO FUCKING EXPLANATION. Luca gives a Klick review, there's literally nothing wrong with this.

592 begins pocketing Datisi for 'having a good read' while Datisi herself thinks she hasn't had one yet (perfectly fine if you are town btw I don't mean that as a bad thing).
For the record, that catchup post from Datisi is what the game is scumreading her for, but Ali thinks it conftows her. And nobody is making an issue of this but me.

594 is another bullshit callout against Luca, nothing else but 'bruuuh'. Luca's post isn't a scum one. It's calling out for more relevant talk and content. You know, the stuff town needs to win the game.

595 'Ali is all caught up' and has mentioned the wagon on Datisi exactly 0 times. It was a big thing, most players were working on it one way or another. Apparently it was more important to naked vote a million times and say 'bruuuh'. That was the FULL EXTENT of Luca push.

I call Ali out and in 599 the opinion is nothing more then 'Datisi wagon is trash'.

608 Luca makes a vote on Datisi with a solid explanation, but is further shaded by Ali.

636 finally is more extensive, but alas made up.

'Luca - His whole ISO sucks. Nothing in there is actually substanial at all. All of his reads come across as making stuff up on the fly (a lot of times when he is talking about a read, he gives himself room for said read to go either way). He's not really taking any risks and is in general playing really safe. I really want to see Luca go after something instead of just do nothing. Because a lot of what his ISO is nothing. And anything that like, remotely looks like analysis is really surface level stuff.
54 is just a gut scummy start mostly because I don't like the fact he has to feel like he has to have a stance first thing.'

Did anyone think Luca was shading/not taking a stance? I sure didn't. Because he was.

After this there is a TON of bullshit posts directed at Luca that contain little more then 'waah waah scum is crying' or worse.

I seriously don't feel like Ali is serious about this case he has on Luca, and it feels like the ketchup was 'steered' onto a Luca scumread from the getgo.

And because I don't think scumbuddy Ali comes in protecting scumbuddy Datisi like that, I'm having serious doubts about Datisi and would rather pressure Ali at this point.

[Iconeum]

I hate walls just as much as the next guy, but if you are gonna read 1 then please

It shows the Ali progression on Luca and just what is being scumread by Ali.

[Iconeum]

Could it be I'm genuinly doubting what do you with you, and am willing to look/push elsewhere today?

Then if you think that I could be Town, wouldn't you point out which posts made you think so/the thought process behind it?

Unfortunately, it's the same posts that make me scumread you. It's a matter of interpretation and finding your motivation for posting.
What I read previously as a 'bad catchup' could indeed be a confused townie trying to put out effort when called upon. It felt forced and shallow, but if a town doesn't have actual reads yet then it will put something like that out.

My mind is going like this: 'does that shallow catchup come from Town! or Scum'Datisi'

And I am changing my mind about it daily

[Iconeum]

Not only that, but the way Ali came in and how Flippy voted you makes me question the wagon

[Iconeum]

Alright, here's where I am right now: (most to least town)

Billy

- I feel like he's playing like classic Town!Billy. Plus, I think scum!Billy would've tried to pocket me (rather than downgrading his TR), especially as my lynch is starting to get more and more likely.

Klick

- Still having the same vibes from him as in the beginning.

A50

- Granted, we've been in the game together for only a short while, so this is subject to change, but he seems towny so far. Plus I can feel being confused about reads.

Tchill

- He feels genuine, at least enough for D1.

Icon

- I know posting gifs and fooling around is his style, but he seems to be almost pushing it.

Emperor

- I don't see why such activity couldn't be coming from scum who's purposefully trying to have such a playstyle.

Luca

- Their posts seem... fake? I can't explain it well, but I just feel their posts are so devoid of life, like they're cold and calculated. It could be just their playstyle, but it's giving me bad vibes.

Kop

- I mean, yeah.

While I'm fine with voting Kop here, they feel like low-hanging fruit, so I'm gonna VOTE: Luca

I liked your Billy read.

I understand the Klick read.

A50 fair enough.

Tchill feels fency. Like a scum!Datisi can't call everyone town, so Tchill gets a read that is easily turned around later without looking suspicious

Icon. You awknowledge my behaviour as normal, you say nothing about my intent or other (actual) content, but decide to downgrade your read of me because of gifs. Feels icky.

Emperor. While I agree with the read, there is also 0 intent from you to push this slot for content. It's fine to have bad reads, but you are not persuing getting better ones. That's not town motivated.

Luca - we've already extensively covered this one.

Kop. Can't say this read isn't shallow, right?

The way you say you'd be fine with voting Kop (explanation: 'yeah') but end up voting Luca (which is perfectly normal being your scumread) feels weird. Like an overexplanation to an action only scum would bother making.

[Iconeum]

You say you don't think the team is Ali/Datisi. Fine. But this makes is seem like you want to push Ali today, and if they flip Town, go "oh well Datisi was scum all along lol". Because I have a feeling lynching Ali today then me tomorrow is gonna require much less scum effort than the other way around.

I can see you'd think this. But the same goes to anyone making pre-flip associations.

But why don't you feel the same way about Ali pushing Luca, and if that flips town he'd pressure me next? Same thing.

[Iconeum]

You say you don't think the team is Ali/Datisi. Fine. But this makes is seem like you want to push Ali today

The more this game develops, the more I see an Alisae with a gameplan. I don't have that with you. I'm afraid I've been pushing a lost townie into making 'bad' posts and then scumreading them for it.

Ali however is just bullying Luca into a lynch at this point, and I really don't like how he's going about it. So yeah i'd much rather push there right now.

[Iconeum]

Kop. Can't say this read isn't shallow, right?

Kop had a whooping total of 2 posts at the time, and others had allready called them out for it. There really wasn't much I could've added that wouldn't be repeating from before.

But why don't you feel the same way about Ali pushing Luca, and if that flips town he'd pressure me next? Same thing.

Because you weren't the default lynch for today. If Luca flipped Town today, sure Ali would go after you, but how many would actually be willing to follow?
While a lot have already expressed that they want me dead, and if Ali flipped Town today (hell, even if they flipped scum) tell me I wouldn't be the default lynch again tomorrow.

You say you don't think the team is Ali/Datisi. Fine. But this makes is seem like you want to push Ali today

The more this game develops, the more I see an Alisae with a gameplan. I don't have that with you. I'm afraid I've been pushing a lost townie into making 'bad' posts and then scumreading them for it.

Ali however is just bullying Luca into a lynch at this point, and I really don't like how he's going about it. So yeah i'd much rather push there right now.

Okay, let's say Ali flips today. Then what happens tomorrow?

I don't know.

[Iconeum]

That's the thing.

If we lynch Datisi today, you either flip town or scum. If you are scum, then I would go after Ali today for the way he protected you. If you flip town, I'd still go after Ali for the way he protected you and the unfounded case on Luca so I guess that's why I switched votes

[Iconeum]

And once again, you scumread me but why would I, as scum, be sticking my neck out like this going against a powerplayer when I could take the expected path and tunnel you to death without drawing unnecesarry attention to myself?

[Iconeum]

Let me ask you this then, Datisi.

If you get the Luca lynch today, what happens tomorrow?

[Iconeum]

I thought you didn't think we were buddies?

I'm doubting what I said.

[Iconeum]

I'm trying to figure out what's happening.

Do you feel I'm working an agenda or am I doing the same thing?

[Iconeum]

It's not about being able to fake it or not. What do I as scum have to gain from moving away from you when you say yourself 'momentum was coming back'?

[Iconeum]

Datisi, if I'm scum I NK Alisae close to 212% of the time for being a powerplayer alone.

[Iconeum]

I don't go against him in game, I NK him.

[Iconeum]

WIFOM that all you want, you know it's true.

[Iconeum]

The ability to say "scum!me wouldn't do that".

Being able to say that grants me nothing.

[Iconeum]

Sigh. Ok I tried. I really did. If you are too stubborn to even think I could possibly be town here then fuck it.

[Iconeum]

what legitimate question?