BTE: Boon Wars - Revenge of the Jingle

[Nute Krazy]

We are here.

[Nute Krazy]

Love the sig this Id has.

[Nute Krazy]

Our sig is "HGRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!"

I wanted you all to know this

One of my favorite star wars quotes. I have it as a ringtone!

[Nute Krazy]

TROWN can gain AN ADVANTAGE if we MIMIC EACH OTHER!

[Nute Krazy]

@Padme -- that survey is a horrible idea, as is anything that would link this game to the other two. (Same answers here has >0 potential to link the hydra to the other game)

[Nute Krazy]

[Nute Krazy]

Wow Jingle, that's a pretty messed up tire!

[Nute Krazy]

As amusing as the impressions were, they're completely getting in the way of playing the game. I doubt that avoiding revealing ourselves is so critical that it's worth it to clam up completely, so let's drop the acts a bit and just play the game.

I agree as this is what I've been struggling with. I really don't want to give the Jingle any hint at our identities. BUT it seems like pretty important information for them, so I don't like you just saying it isn't that big of a deal. Like "hey its no biggie, lets just talk normally so I can figure out who's who and get a scum win" is what I hear from your post. VOTE: DEB

I agree with the idea in this post. Not so sure it's scum indicative for DEB but it could be.

[Nute Krazy]

Reads like contrived justification for jumping onto a wagon.

Somewhat agree with this.

[Nute Krazy]

Mace can be scum as well.

Any particular reason?

[Nute Krazy]

Town not posting is also a scum advantage. This shouldn't be a reason to avoid giving content.

Lack of things to comment about mostly.

[Nute Krazy]

@MOD VC please!

[Nute Krazy]

Lots of prods needed too.

[Nute Krazy]

VOTE: Characellor Palpatine
We're at a stage where we need some big wagons.

[Nute Krazy]

We're at a stage where we need some big wagons.

we do. now talk to me about padme voting deb when she baezda for voting deb when padme herself said deb is scum the last time she posted before that.

You might have double typed part of the sentence but yes I saw your previous post on the subject. Padme voted Baezda, after Baezda voted Darth EB (?), when Padme had previously said Darth EB was scummy and voted there. Yes, that's weird as heck. It's a naked vote which means we don't know a specific reason (if there even is one).

[Nute Krazy]

I don't see anything AI from Mace. I find reads on that slot to be suspicious.

[Nute Krazy]

Im interested in pressuring this

VOTE: Padme

Why the jump off one of the bigger wagons to a smaller one? While I agree Padme is somewhat scummy, we're at the point in the game where bigger wagons are better. (It's not even the wagon I'm on, but the point still stands)

[Nute Krazy]

Im interested in pressuring this

VOTE: Padme

Why the jump off one of the bigger wagons to a smaller one? While I agree Padme is somewhat scummy, we're at the point in the game where bigger wagons are better. (It's not even the wagon I'm on, but the point still stands)

I'd rather vote someone who is somewhat scummy than vote someone for the sake of creating a wagon.

Your vote post didn't indicate that Padme was scummy, only that you wanted to pressure.
Did you think the other options were towny? If so, why? If not, why a lower wagon?

[Nute Krazy]

I hard claim vanilla, see what you’ve made me done?

The scum can take the freebie to narrow down the PR hunt, that’s what you deserve.

Insert lennyface

A joke this is?

[Nute Krazy]

Why is Padme still alive?

Slow game is slow?

[Nute Krazy]

I thought Padme was scummy for 46. My reply to it didn't generate much which was disappointing, but then the whole game is disappointing so far.
I don't like the way that Padme has handled the wagon either.
VOTE: Padme

[Nute Krazy]

It's pretty funny.

[Nute Krazy]

@Padme -- that survey is a horrible idea, as is anything that would link this game to the other two. (Same answers here has >0 potential to link the hydra to the other game)

Evidence that I thought 46 was scummy right from the start.
Eat rope.

[Nute Krazy]

If something is a joke (it wasn't) then say it's a fucking joke.
Eat more rope.

[Nute Krazy]

I also love how "hide your identity" gets twisted into "don't post".
Scum want people to give up their identity so they can gain whatever the advantage is.
Actually revealing your identity in this game is something I put on the same level as self voting as town.

[Nute Krazy]

What's the result of a NL?
The scum are the ones impeding us getting to a lynch.

[Nute Krazy]

Im interested in pressuring this

VOTE: Padme

Why the jump off one of the bigger wagons to a smaller one? While I agree Padme is somewhat scummy, we're at the point in the game where bigger wagons are better. (It's not even the wagon I'm on, but the point still stands)

I'd rather vote someone who is somewhat scummy than vote someone for the sake of creating a wagon.

Your vote post didn't indicate that Padme was scummy, only that you wanted to pressure.
Did you think the other options were towny? If so, why? If not, why a lower wagon?

I don't remember seeing an answer to this.
Deliberately splitting wagons with what was just a couple days to go at the time is a scum move.
Right or wrong, town absolutely must lynch. It's mountainous. Does nobody read the mechanics?

[Nute Krazy]

Oh boy
You are going to get crucified for that suggestion.

I don't know why.
I'm really surprised Boon added time. If he hadn't we probably would have NL'd.

[Nute Krazy]

Padme is my policy venge.

[Nute Krazy]

Someone is getting blacklisted by somebody.

[Nute Krazy]

Man, I love Boon games for flavor and mechanics, but the darth of votecounts sucks a big one.

[Nute Krazy]

It's not like vengeful is part of a role PM or anything.
Not knowing it means not reading the thread. Hardly something you can base anything on.

[Nute Krazy]

Tell me why scum!me wants to pressure people to make wagons, any wagon, with 2 days left, when it's a better move for scum to just NL and take away the town's kill for the day. I should be obvtown for that alone. Does nobody understand even basic logic?

[Nute Krazy]

Stop posting and maybe you can live. The policy stands until that happens.

[Nute Krazy]

If you lynch me, I'm policy venging Padme. I said that already. I'm also blacklisting the main. I still think the slot is scum, and we can't award people for flipping their shit regardless.

If you shut the fuck up, then I'll consider looking at whether someone else is scum.

[Nute Krazy]

like he shut the fuck up for 10 minutes and you didn't say a word so I don't really believe THAT's your hangup

Scuse me for trying to find my prescription refill (that someone may have thrown away thinking it was an empty bag) so I can take today's dose.

[Nute Krazy]

There's almost certainly some scumfucks on the biggest wagon here, deadline was approaching and scum needed to pile on to something easy. Padme is basically cleared, this isn't the high info gamestate where town catches scum easily, so the biggest wagon is not on scum here.

In a game where everyone is putatively a hydra, there should be 5x this many posts.
As I already pointed out (and several people didn't know) a

NL is better for scum than a mislynch.

When you know 100% of mislynches result in vengekills, the math is clear.

Baezda and Nute both have been encouraging fear/paranoia about identities getting outed, which is scummy because town just needs to fuckin post right now. It's not that hard,

pick someone else each time you post to act like

, and if that's too hard sometimes then sometimes you can pick yourself. But there's like no chance in my mind that scum get to auto kill everyone they figure out or something that strong - just play the game!

Excuse me for pointing this out but

I'm one of the people who suggested posting like someone else

. I jumped on Padme for

posting something that helps scum find out who is who

. If I were scum, and Padme town, why would I point out something that helps me? It would be far better to let a few sheep fall for it, post their (identifiable) lists of Star Wars preferences, take that info to get whatever benefit scum gets, and laugh all the way to a win?
That was not fear and paranoia pushing, at least not on my part. I shot down something that I think was a scum intelligence operation. Nowhere did I say not to post. Well, I asked Padme to stop just now because it's impossible for someone who actually thinks about what they post to keep up when new pages are appearing faster than you can read them. But for the general case I'm on record for being upset that people weren't posting.

[Nute Krazy]

VOTE: Darth
Impress me

Tytitus or Easy Baker?

<psa>
To the mod, and others who mod. People often don't look back at their old posts. Editing in a question like this may never get results. It's better to quote it to the end of the thread so it appears as new.
</psa>

That said, I don't like the way this wasn't resolved.

[Nute Krazy]

I townread Arist2D2.

This seemed too easy. Not that Arist2D2 was scummy at that point. It feels too early to make a call to me.

[Nute Krazy]

I haven't forgotten about this sequence. It bugged me then, and I brought it up. I haven't reached the current point in this ISO so I don't know yet whether my question was ever resolved. But for reference here it is yet again.

As amusing as the impressions were, they're completely getting in the way of playing the game. I doubt that avoiding revealing ourselves is so critical that it's worth it to clam up completely, so let's drop the acts a bit and just play the game.

I agree as this is what I've been struggling with. I really don't want to give the Jingle any hint at our identities. BUT it seems like pretty important information for them, so I don't like you just saying it isn't that big of a deal. Like "hey its no biggie, lets just talk normally so I can figure out who's who and get a scum win" is what I hear from your post. VOTE: DEB

Your post reads weird.

You begin with an acknowledgment that Darth Easy Baker brought up a valid concern. Why do you then jump to the conclusion that his proposed solution comes from scum trying to figure out people’s identities?

I thought this was a pretty good question, and the vote before it was good. I'm not a fan of throwing a vote and then giving the justification a few posts later but that's a style thing.

Im interested in pressuring this

VOTE: Padme

So the way I remember it, there were several wagons at the 2-3 numbers. Grievous moves from Baezda (an expressed scumread) to Padme (for pressure) at a point in the game where spreading out the votes is bad for town.

[Nute Krazy]

Im interested in pressuring this

VOTE: Padme

Good luck, I’ll mention you when I feel pressured

There is a valid concern for you to be addressing. Just because I didn't state them in my post doesn't mean they don't exist.

Mysterious reasons. Let's remember this to see if said reasons were ever expressed.

[Nute Krazy]

Also multiple people have said Padme is scummy. There's no reason why we can't make a bigger wagon there instead.

Who are these multiple people? And while this may or may not be true, your reason was not given.

[Nute Krazy]

UNVOTE:
I now strongly townread Padme

Uh oh, it's someone who gets pissed at being voted. Gotta run!

Town who think someone is scummy don't run at the first sign of trouble.

[Nute Krazy]

OK, there's one.
Padme, your ire appears to be misplaced.
I never did see a satisfactory reason for Grievous to vote Padme in the first place, nor was there a strong reason to not vote the other top wagon at the time.
If Frozen is scum, then the top wagon they refused to join at the time might be scum too.
Frozen scum implies Padme town, since you don't start a wagon on your partner when so many other obvious opportunities are there.

Padme can still be scum. And I'm not ready yet to reward bad behavior. But I want to make it clear that I am open to seeing that the slot could be town.

[Nute Krazy]

VOTE: Characellor Palpatine
We're at a stage where we need some big wagons.

The timestamp of this post is Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:48 pm

[Nute Krazy]

Game start post was Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:58 pm
128 posts, more than 8 days later!
That's the wagon that got derailed, if Frozen's vote on Padme was a redirect.

Yeah, I could copy/paste this stuff into notepad or something, but it's fun to reveal my thought processes by posting it real time.

If others stopped posting on my behalf, you have my thanks and apology.
If not, well then eh... just shows the game has very very weird activity patterns.

[Nute Krazy]

Can someone explain the votes on us to us please. We don't see the point, especially since we are inactive at this point.

Wagons do not lead to posts.

I'd buy this being inactive scum btw. The information from lynching it sucks, but a scum lynch is a scum lynch.

[Nute Krazy]

What's the result of a NL?
The scum are the ones impeding us getting to a lynch.

omg. call me picky. call me fake but i cannot imagine scum being so dumb as to suggest not lynching in a mountainous setup. like really what is the point? we have no investigations to get more information overnight. we literally have no other means to gain information aside from the lynch and wagonomics. my point is scum will be too frightened to come up with this suggestion in the first place because they know better.

Nowhere have I suggested that scum would openly try to NL.
It's simpler to just not be here at all. All they have to do is not be active, if there aren't even enough players in the thread to get majority.
I feel like you're misunderstanding on purpose.

[Nute Krazy]

You're probably right about the point of the post.
I should remember that rhetorical devices are lost on some of the population, so they get misinterpreted as serious questions.

[Nute Krazy]

OH WAIT I'M VENGEFUL?

Lynch me i don't give a fuck

oh gawd. he finally gets it.

Yes, and unfortunately there is nothing more dangerous than an ego with power.

[Nute Krazy]

errr werent you the one who suggested nl'ing not long ago?

"what is the effect of a NL" is sarcastically slapping people upside the head with a fish to ask them how they can possibly see derailing wagons as towny and trying to lead wagons as scummy. Not suggesting an actual NL. Geez, are people really this dense?

[Nute Krazy]

Caught up -- sorry, it didn't seem like you were going to see the real meaning.

[Nute Krazy]

Dangers of posting based on what's currently on the screen.

[Nute Krazy]

Please be a little less useless. And be quick about it.
That's for the 50% or more who have been useless.

[Nute Krazy]

Was that intended to be an unvote?
We could just lynch Frozen.

[Nute Krazy]

I'm reasonably certain the wagon that Frozen was actively avoiding was Palpatine, and I think I'd be willing to go back to wagoning there too.

[Nute Krazy]

Was that intended to be an unvote?
We could just lynch Frozen.

why are you proposing to lynch the most obvious TROWN in the entire game?

I guess we have a different definition? Certainly not townie to me.

[Nute Krazy]

And the game dies off again, nice.
VOTE: Palpatine

For the record, I'm still against rewarding bad behavior. Throwing a tantrum doesn't make someone town. I do think this is more likely to be scum though.

[Nute Krazy]

when i saw mace was the kill i thought they did something very right or very wrong. but then i went back and saw they said they had no scum reads. peculiar.

Mace didn't give a lot of explicit reads but there were some opinions.

[Nute Krazy]

low info kill in a low info gamestate and that's pretty much it.

This gives me an idea -- if the purpose was to make it low info then we can look at lower info people as possible scum.

VOTE: Frozen Grievous
I think that point I made earlier leads in the direction of the Padme wagon being a diversion attempt from the beginning.

[Nute Krazy]

Let's try to actually post upon arrival, more than just a hi.

[Nute Krazy]

You do know that scum under pressure usually make an attempt to look townier to get out of the noose.
I don't really see the point of delaying anything post hammer. If you have something to say then say it.

[Nute Krazy]

I’m still waiting for a reasoning on why I was pushed by him.

It’s been 4 days and I still don’t know why I had to address a ghost concern.

Because you were being an arrogant twat

But also WHAT IS THIS

Looks like revisionism to me. Grievous was on Padme's wagon from the beginning and didn't really say anything about why at the time.

[Nute Krazy]

That's an interesting approach to the topic of resistance. Usually people use resistance to push a lynch there because they think the resistance is coming from scum protecting their own.

[Nute Krazy]

That's an interesting approach to the topic of resistance. Usually people use resistance to push a lynch there because they think the resistance is coming from scum protecting their own.

you have to consider the who and the how. tytitus and arist are voting rcepo for a valid reason. do you disagree?
shiro is on a vanity wagon. is this the way to save a scum p? non-voters include us, grievous themselves and rcepo who is the competing wagon. it could be argued that rcepo and grievous are scum together thus not voting eachother but it still doesnt look a good way for 2 scums to defend eachother. that leaves obi and deb. do you think either or both are scum with grievous?

in short we think grievous is town here. what we are debating is whether to accept their lynch and trust them with the vengekill or go for rcepo. we think rcepo plus one already on grievous wagon is the likely solution.

TyTitus vote on RCEPO has a valid reason, though somewhat weak. I assume Arist2d2 reason is the same but did not look.
I'd have to look on the rest of what you said.

The main point of my question is about use of the term resistance. Lack of support / lots of defense is how I'd normally expect town to be spoken about. It isn't a hugely important point

3 days isn't much time, and I'm not comfortable with overall read quality right now. But I gotta go for now.

[Nute Krazy]

I got some time to read Baezda. I can get on board with that.
VOTE: Baezda

[Nute Krazy]

VOTE: Irrelph Organa
Seemed to know that none of the D2 wagons was on scum.
Was pushing really hard on flavor being AI.
Too cavalier an attitude toward townreads.

[Nute Krazy]

Why push for killing an absent slot instead of requesting replacement

Because the rules forbid you from doing so.

Player A requesting Player B to replace out (A talking to B) is clearly included.
Player A suggesting to the mod that an absent Player B is due to be replaced (by game rule) I would not expect to be a problem. If we can't remind a mod of the game rules then the site rule is broken IMO.

Kenobi's question is wrong-headed for a different reason. The real question is, why push a kill

early game

on the absent over a kill on someone who is present and scummy?

I don't wanna have to do work and go back to find out who was advocating for killing absent slot(s). Might have to, because zero info deaths are in scum's interest more than town's. Aside from the edge case where town needs numbers to be reduced to be able to amass a lynch, which we don't seem to be seeing here.

[Nute Krazy]

There's a world where Irrelph is scum and he was active during my lynch not to push for a counterwagon and express how town I am, but to make me shoot Nute by pointing scummy things about him. Sure.

Push for a counterwagon to whom?

[Nute Krazy]

I get your frustration, Arist. But you have 3 non-voters on the wagon, 4 if someone doubts my alignment still.

I want to get off-wagon scum first and then look for bussers.

Which wagon is this comment referring to? Actually, I wonder if wagon here is referring to two different wagons?

[Nute Krazy]

Hey Padme, I'm looking at Annie's ISO and don't get how you think it points to DEB?

Yeah it's 15p lol I have a bad memory sometimes. It's most likely 4 by a lot based on reads but it could be 3 possibly IF the inactive power is awful.

Is this making a leap that the active / inactive thing is the scum power?
Awful in the sense of being a bad thing for town which means a great power for scum?

[Nute Krazy]

Arist gets moved down after finishing my reread. If I were to vote right now that's probably where it would be.

Please elaborate.

[Nute Krazy]

I'm going to be annoying and say I had a townread on Irrelph for good reasons, but I don't remember why

Were they the person who was trying to put a lot of stock on flavor? That's probably why

Yeah I felt the same way.

Why would emphasis on flavor be a town thing?
I'd attribute it more to scum who wants to shade an entire class of people.

[Nute Krazy]

Stilted, descriptive manner of posting; not much nuance or deliberation in their reads; their reactions to things like Irrelph pushing for flavor = alignment and Vorkuta's slip read more like agenda pushing than genuine attempts to figure things out.

Interesting, I don't see it as stilted at all. What I do see would help scum to point it out, so I won't.

I read it as genuine frustration that someone with such low impact has skated through the game and he's pushing people without any reasoning behind it. On a closer look, his argument with Irrelph could actually be TvT depending on how Irrelph handles the slot.

I initially thought this was answering my question, mostly because I focused on the first sentence. It took a 2nd reading to see that it was more likely a response to 881.

[Nute Krazy]

Upon re-checking, other than the vote, the things that Nute has done today are pretty bad and I'm disappointed with the stuff he latched on to. I'll spend some time on actually evaluating Nute without my bias towards him.

This mystifies me completely. Especially "latching on to". Asking questions is latching?

[Nute Krazy]

When someone is the top wagon and they describe another wagon as a counterwagon, that means something.
Is this what you don't like being questioned? I'm not one of those Jedi mind readers, but if I were it would be my best guess.

Pedit: this was written about 10 posts ago btw.

[Nute Krazy]

Upon re-checking, other than the vote, the things that Nute has done today are pretty bad and I'm disappointed with the stuff he latched on to. I'll spend some time on actually evaluating Nute without my bias towards him.

This mystifies me completely. Especially "latching on to". Asking questions is latching?

Your questions serve no purpose towards solving and it looks like you're asking questions with the intent of looking like you're trying to help town while not doing anything.

Just because you don't understand my purpose does not give you the right to say it doesn't have one.

[Nute Krazy]

They saw a bad guy flip scum. This isn't rocket science.

Actually, they first brought it up in 311, way before Palpatine flipped.

That btw is part of the reason it's more likely to come from scum than town. Not a lot more likely granted, it's

possible

it's just dumb town.
Scum who successfully push the idea risk losing 1 to gain who knows how many mislynches.
Especially if the 1st scum flip is a bad guy.
If a bad guy flips town first then the (now known to be at least one) scum bad guy is safer, after the 'bad guy = scum' theory is discarded.

I personally think that flavor and roles are both randomized and there is no connection.

[Nute Krazy]

There's a world where Irrelph is scum and he was active during my lynch not to push for a counterwagon and express how town I am, but to make me shoot Nute by pointing scummy things about him. Sure.

Push for a counterwagon to whom?

You're suggesting that scum!Organa went out of his way to save town!you by pushing for a

counterwagon

.
Counterwagons are counters to scum.
You know damn well what that implies.
People sometimes slip their true feelings this way.
Yes, that does mean that I do not consider you conf!town. You're still in the town bucket.

If you were trying to say that Organa is town because of this, you turn right around and say he's scum later so I'm now confused.
Trying to say I'm scummy for asking about this is Krazy.
It's possible that I'm misreading your entire intent with the post, which is

why I asked the question

.
If you have a town response (uh, yeah I guess counterwagon isn't quite the right term here) then it gets rid of the suspicion the comment caused.

[Nute Krazy]

Scum who successfully push the idea risk losing 1 to gain who knows how many mislynches.

One.

Even if they believed they could actually convince people of that theory, it's debunked after a single target flips town.

And that target is going to be pissed at getting wagoned on such a stupid theory, so guess who they might take it out on with their vengekill?

If a bad guy flips town first then the (now known to be at least one) scum bad guy is safer, after the 'bad guy = scum' theory is discarded.

Fallacy fallacy. If an argument in favor of X is disproven, that doesn't provide evidence in favor of not-X.

Whether the logic is correct or not is immaterial, because the average MS player couldn't find logic if it were glowing right in front of them.
Actually that's an exaggeration, but at times it feels that way.
What matters is the sheep of the wifom. And how people will townread the person making the illogical leap because scum wouldn't be stupid.

[Nute Krazy]

Counterwagons are counters to scum

2nd top wagon, there, then.

There, that's settled.
Now help me understand if you were trying to rule out Organa as scum with that.
I actually do believe the second part of it, that the real goal was trying to get you to venge me.

[Nute Krazy]

I was arguing that Organa could've been scum that wanted me to shoot you instead.

Tacking on the ',sure' acted as a sarcasm trigger for me, in conjunction with the bad terminology.
So it turns out we agree in our interpretation of that event?
I'd need to look back at Organa approach to Palpatine.

[Nute Krazy]

RCE-PO, IRRELPH ORGANA, DARTH EASY BAKER, OBI-SOMETH KENOBI.

Here's my PoE, discuss.

I have a fairly soft but definite reason to think at least one of the reasons for scumreading Kenobi may be unfounded.
That's a pretty vague thing I know, but it's vague on purpose.

Agree on Organa.
RCEPO is being almost too obviously anti-town, unless I'm incorrect on Kenobi, which doesn't necessarily equal scum but might as well be.
Pretty undecided on Darth EB.
Wouldn't be surprised if a mutual TR is deepscum. Nary a clue which one atm.

Pedit: eh?

[Nute Krazy]

lol how did I know I would get you to scumread me just by expressing my scumread on you

This does seem to be a thing.

[Nute Krazy]

Kinda leaning toward Irrelph Organa's continued push on the flavor as being an attempt to be too scummy to be scum.
As in, just scum trying to act not scum.
I can't see a town motivation for that position at all.

[Nute Krazy]

Both were objectively scummy to me, and I was quite surprised that both flipped town.
I'm actually kinda suspicious of anyone who would say either one was obvtown.

[Nute Krazy]

Both were objectively scummy to me, and I was quite surprised that both flipped town.
I'm actually kinda suspicious of anyone who would say either one was obvtown.

I really want to hear more about how you don't believe anyone in this game can find a read on someone after 60 posts and a scumflip. Does your other head also have this suspicion?

Let's not provide scum any assistance with identifications.

Townread, sure. Obvtown in a secret hydra game where you

should

have no meta to work with? On players whose behavior was explicitly scummy? Sure, in retrospect they weren't scum and so my reads were wrong.

Perhaps you're hung up on "suspicious" when the operative word is "kinda". On a scale of 10=conftown 1=confscum, a "kinda" modifier to me is like subtracting 1. A given individual might already be an 8 in that scale, and "kinda suspicious" would make them a 7. That's still town, but with my confidence shaken a bit. Quite a bit less likely to blindly sheep. More willing to look at the possibility that they might not be what they seem.

I do find it interesting that you choose to approach it that way.

[Nute Krazy]

Only one head is even present.

[Nute Krazy]

I have no clue who you are, don't care to know.

[Nute Krazy]

Has never posted.
Shade is bullshit as a tell btw.

[Nute Krazy]

Are you fishing for identity here?
I'm playing exactly like I play every town game, with the exception of not being able to use meta at all.

[Nute Krazy]

Nute are all arguing against finding scum on the wagon

This is incorrect. I'm not saying anything about on / off wagon.

[Nute Krazy]

I commented about how FG and Baezda were not obvtown. That has absolutely nothing to do with wagon composition.

[Nute Krazy]

I saw something which I thought was incorrect, and commented on it.
You are assuming the purpose of the comment is something different than what the actual purpose was.
The subsequent conversation relates to that wrong assumption about purpose.

To make this even more clear:
I have not looked at end of day wagon composition nor the events that led to it. I'd be happy to do so, but that hasn't been my focus.

[Nute Krazy]

Wagon
Frozen Grievous [7]: Anniecan Boonrunner, Padme Almostdala, Baezda, Irreleph Organa, Darth Tytitus, Darth Easy Baker, RCEPO,
Baezda [4]: Shirobacca, Frozen Grievous, Ki-Adi-Joandi, Nute Krazy,
RCEP0 [1]: Arist2D2,

Not Voting [1]: Obi-Someth Kenobi,

Reads in wagon order
Flipped town: Flipped town, townread, flipped town, scumread, ?, ?, scumread
Flipped town: townread, flipped town, townread, town
scumread: ?

not voting: ?

Player list / reads
Padme Almostdala medium-strong town
RCE-P0 scum (weak activity)
Obi-Someth Kenobi unknown
Arist-2D2 unknown
Irrelph Organa medium scum by behavior
Nute Krazy town
Shirobacca medium-strong town
Ki-Adi-Joandi medium town
Darth TyTitus unknown
Darth Easy Baker unknown

To-do list: Figure out the unknowns. If they're still unknown by this point in a game it can only mean one of two things -- either they have not been memorable enough compared to amount of activity, or they have done both scummy and towny things and I can't decide which thoughts are stronger.

[Nute Krazy]

We've been down the empty threats path before with me and Padme. Let's cool the jets a bit.

[Nute Krazy]

Upgrade Kenobi to weak town. I had noticed something in an iso earlier but forgot about it.

[Nute Krazy]

I didn’t know ftr.

[Nute Krazy]

VOTE: RCEPO

Prods?

[Nute Krazy]

Don't know how you get Padme as anti-informational.

I can't give specifics on Kenobi. There is a slim chance that scum being able to identify the slot is a game changer. Though we're getting down to the point that POE may be enough.

My guess on RCEPO being Creature/LUV was right, but sadly it wasn't an example of non-posting -> scum.

The wagon data is helpful, thanks.

[Nute Krazy]

You forgot to green Irrelph in the 2.3 votecount. That VC requires one of the Darths to be scum, or no scum were on either of the lead wagons. If we accept the town block.

[Nute Krazy]

So basically scum still win on a mislynch in a lylo situation despite the venge, as long as they don't miss the kill submission deadline. 4:3->3:2->2:2.
Whether it actually is lylo or not, we don't know. But might as well treat it as such.

If it's 5:2, a mislynch and misvenge loses, 5:2->3:2->2.2.
Mislynch but scum venge gives 5:2->4:1->3:1 mylo
5:2 with a NL gives 5:2->4:2 mislynch/misvenge loses, mislynch+scum venge 3:1->2:1 lylo

Actually, 2:1 with the stated rule means mislynch+scum venge => town win with 1 survivor. So it's more complicated than it seems.

What we still don't know is what triggers an inactive and what happens in that case.
My head officially hurts.

[Nute Krazy]

I think what I posted on Kenobi may have been misinterpreted.
SRing Kenobi via lack of activity or terseness of posting would be invalidated if the ID is correct. The main had a reason to be absent, and being terse is NAI for that player.
SR's based on reasons unrelated to those two factors are things I'd be willing to look at.
It's also possible that the ID is just wrong.

[Nute Krazy]

@Arist, that was the initial basis of the townlean, the read has developed since then.

I'll get to this properly tomorrow, had a long day.

This would be so much easier to understand if it had quoted something.

[Nute Krazy]

Making a hard poe based on on/off wagon would be a good move by scum if it were an all town wagon.
It's also good scumhunting to think that it's extremely unlikely to be all town.

In the balance I don't think the wookie is scum because their posting is very well rounded and cohesive when not talking about on/off wagon and FG being obvtown.
It looks more like town obsessed with a theory being right than scum trying to manipulate others into accepting the theory.

If I were going to peg someone for floating a theory and trying to manipulate based on it, I would point to whomever it was that was pushing canon bad guys being scum. A team of 1 bad character and several good ones would sacrifice at most one member by pushing that as a theory, in hopes to gain enough mislynches and confusion to finish town before the ruse was revealed.

[Nute Krazy]

Tinfoil: IF IT'S TRUE that scum can kill whomever they can guess correct, then DEB being scum explains why they were able to "guess" Mace was FB.

I had a big post written to poke holes in this but maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say.

Are you trying to say that knowing who was online and posting at the start of the game could have given an advantage at being able to identify the teams here?

Forcing scum to call their shot in order to be able to kill seems pretty limiting. Even borderline unwinnable with a really bad draw.

[Nute Krazy]

I wasn't asked, but I think that all of the hydras started off with the "hide my online status" setting turned on.

[Nute Krazy]

If that's the case then my reason for wanting to ignore Kenobi's activity is no longer valid.

[Nute Krazy]

I think I've already outed that my partner is absent.
I'm curious to know if my posting is distinctive when relatively anonymous. What's your guess?

I forgot to update my notes on the Obi-someth and Darth EB reveals. With the Krazy/Bins slugfest I now have the whole list aside from knowing who is posting for Arist2d2. It doesn't help me a bit other than to know that the townier looking slots are within that player's scumrange.

[Nute Krazy]

The first one especially gave you away. The second only confirmed it in my mind.

Hint: At that point Insomina had already claimed and Ali had been NK'd.

I would have thought those specific quotes were only useful for POE in terms of finding out which people hadn't posted on their mains.
So I'm thinking earlier posting would be the identifying stuff...

I'm prepping for an almost 4000 mile road trip over about 10 days. I do have another driver for part of that and of course there are the stops along the way, but it's gonna be sparse posting.

[Nute Krazy]

Then you're not reading my posts.

[Nute Krazy]

Nute Krazy
Ki-Adi-Joandi
Shirobacca
Darth TyTitus

Arist2D2
Darth Easy Baker
Obi Someth Kenobi

[Nute Krazy]

tho i think the d1 wagon and NKs spew me town somewhat

Have you commented on this before?

[Nute Krazy]

I have arrived in my daughter’s college town after 2+ days of driving/sleeping/eating and not much else.
I have seen the hammer opportunity, willing, but will allow Darth EB the opportunity to check in.

[Nute Krazy]

VOTE: obi someth kenobi

[Nute Krazy]

Alright, how much time until deadline?

I had a major cpu reboot. Beep.