Mini Normal 2095 - Game Over!

[Tchill13]

Also, I'm confused.

@mod - The post 25 vote count has emperor voting for tchill, but I don't see that vote until post 27. Did you edit the vote count post to account for the updated votes? If so when would you edit the post and when would you not edit the post?

The votecount was edited to reflect Emperor's vote because the votecount was edited into the post after Emperor's vote was made.

Mod is already plotting against me cool.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: DaTitsi

VOTE: datisi

I'm not usually one to joke vote names because some mods get annoyed, and apparently I already have a target on my back with this one (I'm joking) but datits is too good to pass up.

[Tchill13]

Not as scummy as the pilgrims that eventually lead to the native Indians being wiped out by plagues.

The name Billy may even be more scummy than that though.

[Tchill13]

Good day to you all.

So far getting positive vibes from Icon, Klick and Pilgrim. Somewhat negative vibe from Datisi.

I generally like to keep my reads and reasoning close to my chest early on, but something needs doing here. Does anyone have any slight pings as of yet?

why positive vibes on billy?

specifically, i read him and he comes off as purposefully ignorant. what do you see differently here?

[Tchill13]

You know what is a more solid foundation than random content? Non-random content.
You could easily have a pre-designed list of things to discuss during RVS regardless of your alignment. It's much harder to fake actual content as scum.

Not how the opening of the game works. You just have to let it ride as frustrating as it maybe. Some ppl force this phase to be over quickly and to some players they can interpret scummy behavior from that

[Tchill13]

@tchill -"purposefully ignorant?". Aside from me saying I don't really understand what's going on in RVS, where else was I purposefully ignorant?

@tchill and Luca - I legitimately struggle with how to discuss my experience. Because I do think it's relevant. I also don't want to overplay it, because then I agree it looks like someone is trying to build in a preloaded excuse for bad play. Now that being said, I think inexperience is relevant as a lens to interpret newer players' play. E.g. if a read requires some level of experience to make, then a newer player will probably need that worked out for them or the read/tell isn't going to make any sense. In my first newbie game I had a level of confidence in my read that wasn't appropriate. When I'm looking at newer players, I now understand that what I perceive as the active newbies typical overconfidence is usually a result of the pressure that other players are putting on them to fit in and look town. After my first game where I made numerous comments about how bad I was playing, I had another town player tell me how scummy that looked. So that I cut out. And in this game I only mentioned that this was my fourth game in response to a question about my experience level.

So I legitimately don't know how to approach this. I'm playing more games (in particular games outside the newbie sub-forum) to get more experience, but until I get that experience, I'm gonna be inexperienced. If it felt like I was using that as a crutch in RVS then I guess that's fair. But RVS to me doesn't really give me much. Cases I can analyze. RVS feels sort of performative.

Now I'm not a tonal reader but there's something about your early posts that seem like you don't want to come off highly intelligent about the game.

Luca said he seen it, and I believe him because he also backed his standing while agreeing with me.

[Tchill13]

Not even gonna ask about why there's a town block because there's no reason for one to be there this early.

Due to the approach a handful of ppl have early game my read reasons maybe a little complex.

[Tchill13]

UNVOTE:

I'm happy with a starting townblock of myself/Icon/Billy.

So klick probably isn't scum. That's a courageous move declaring a town block early game when they could just coast.

[Tchill13]

Iconeum slot seems fine. I'm willing to town lean there atm.

Luca is the one I'm willing to work with the most atm.

Billy is still a scum lean.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Billy pilgrim

[Tchill13]

Not in one rvs post I can't explain the scum motivation.

But I do see a pattern of "willful ignorance" and not trying to solve much.

The "I'm new or not sure what's going on" vibe is something he's trying to portray imo.

[Tchill13]

Do you town read him mostly because of one post?

[Tchill13]

Well I am trying to make a read. Billy's play is the one thing that stands out. I'm not gonna go through his past games BUT, if he has a history of this I'll let it go for now. Not gonna automatically hand out a TR though.

[Tchill13]

If tchill flips green then billy could be scum. I don’t think the two can ever be scum together. The level of distancing without daychat seems impossible for the two to achieve.

feel like ive played with you b4. im capable of a lot as scum imo as far as interactions with other scummates goes.

[Tchill13]

Well. This is where i am

Waffle Block
Billy & I

Town
Icon for now.

Null
Everyone besides icon

As of rn i’m Good if we push Tchilly or Luca

I’ve been waiting since D1 for this Tchill wagon to take off

HURT: Tchilly

I’m not buying the billy thing. He’s got a D1 pass from me. Rn it feels like Tchill is trying to take attention away from himself & nit pick on a newbie

I’m still here for a Tchill kill

you've made one informational post about why im scum, which came after you pushed me for no reason, but im scum because im ignoring you after i explained why the "easy mislynch" seems like he's being overly ignorant?

makes sense.

[Tchill13]

I’m not buying the billy thing. He’s got a D1 pass from me. Rn it feels like Tchill is trying to take attention away from himself & nit pick on a newbie

VOTE: Tchill

He knows why

Seriously, what's up with this?

It went from RVS—> I’m getting scum vibes—> hes actively ignoring me & my push on him to make sure the attention goes to someone easily mislynchable

Like i understand I could be wrong & i understand that it is D1 & page 7 but i got pretty strong feelings about this. & in the case that Tchill flips green then we can go billy tomorrow.

didnt even have time to respond after the info as to why im scum.

your white knighting billy atm and then pushing for his lynch tomorrow if i flip green today.

VOTE: emperor flippynips

[Tchill13]

am i scum because i ignored a push that had no mmeaning in RVS?

@flippynips

[Tchill13]

billy has 2 "passes", one from kicks and one from flippynips, because he comes off as a newbie.

I'm scum because i'm alarmed how much he comes off as a newbie because im aware that sometimes leads to early TR's, as it has here.

I do not KNOW billy is scum. I'm simply aware that it seems like he's pushing the newbie card a liiiiitle too much for my liking.

[Tchill13]

We should also run close to deadline so scum has more time to interact with each other. That could help for later if tchill isn’t actually scum. It could also help to find his partner if he is.

Strong disagree here. Making people wait until the last possible moment to end the day is just gonna create apathy and stall the game

you're not gonna get a lot of info of a lynch is already agreed upon and you just wait out the day phases.

Flippy looks fake af here. Now he looks like he's trying to show "why" he's town.

pushing for a long d1, white knighting the newish player, looking busy by pushing me with no real reason "even though he claimed he had one" which i've debunked.

Flippy could still be town with bad instincts in this particular situation, but I need answers from flippy atm. Top priority.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Tchill

He knows why

Did you explain it to him in PT? Is that how he knows?

In making the claim that Billy could be scum, you would need a plausible explanation as to why he would make this post as scum The main reason I townread him is because I believe this post comes from town far more often than it comes from scum.

Can you explain what you think his scum motivation is there, Tchill?

viewtopic.php?t=80327&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
This game shows precedent for Billy acting this way as town. He's already discussed the fact that he was scumread for this before. What's different in his behavior here that makes you think it's an act?

And yeah, as I said before, I townread him because he didn't seem to be aware that scum don't have daytalk in this game. In order to think he's scum, you'd need to think he purposefully faked that. And that doesn't seem to be in line with his personality imo.

I’m not buying the billy thing. He’s got a D1 pass from me. Rn it feels like Tchill is trying to take attention away from himself & nit pick on a newbie

I wanted to wait a bit, but yeah I'm getting the same vibes from my own interaction with Tchill. A lot of what he gave me was surface-level in a way that felt disingenuous.

VOTE: Tchill13

you asked me to explain an RVS posts which is almost impossible to do.

I told you im not one to use players past games to clear them, mainly because they're easily manipulable.

I haven't been pushed with reason yet, other than flippy which i just spoke upon, so there's no reason to be worried about attention.

i did give you surface lvl content because nothing regarding billy has been enough to "nail" him as scum. We're not even at pg 10 yet.

[Tchill13]

am i scum because i ignored a push that had no mmeaning in RVS?

@flippynips

I said what my thought process was with my you. Up until it seemed like you were trying to change focus it was the vibe i was getting from you.

why would i want to change focus if there wasnt a threatening wagon on me and there were no real reason for the votes.

Am i paranoid scum early d1 because of 2-3 rvs votes? How reasonable is that claim?

[Tchill13]

he's not a town lean for you but billy has a d1 pass? interesting.

[Tchill13]

We should also run close to deadline so scum has more time to interact with each other. That could help for later if tchill isn’t actually scum. It could also help to find his partner if he is.

Strong disagree here. Making people wait until the last possible moment to end the day is just gonna create apathy and stall the game

So you don’t think its a good idea to extend the time scum has to interact in front of us (or not interact at all) to help give us more clues to who they are?

the intent of this post is to show himself as town and increminate datisisi if she answeres incorrectly.

loaded questions aren't exactly a town agenda. Town should be asking questions that are open minded.

scum on the other t=hand need to implicate other players so loaded questions help push that along.

[Tchill13]

Overall he’s null, I’m pretty sure he’ll be easier to read a little later. You’re best sorted out now. So yeah billy isn’t who i want to push right now

ok, so you finally provided info for why im scum then said im ignoring attention and projecting it on billy before i had a chance to respond to your sole reason for pushing me.

Should i have been alarmed enough by 2 rvs votes to acknowledge your rvs push of me?

Should i have read billy has town for his newbie vibes or am i scum for disagreeing on you on billy?

[Tchill13]

flippy you need to chill and stop projecting me as scum on a biased pov.

im fine with having attention on me so early because 9 times out of 10 theres no reason for it...Because it's too early.

so now the move is to prop me up as great scum to get me lynched early? you could just drop the push after i pointed out the flaws.

don't pick your hill to die on this early.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Tchill

He knows why

VOTE: Tchill

He knows why

Did you explain it to him in PT? Is that how he knows?

Yah. I told him to play it off cool when he gets here tho

Well. This is where i am

Waffle Block
Billy & I

Town
Icon for now.

Null
Everyone besides icon

As of rn i’m Good if we push Tchilly or Luca

I’ve been waiting since D1 for this Tchill wagon to take off

I’ve been waiting since D1 for this Tchill wagon to take off

Any reason why? I voted him for the Tyrion joke. Anything specifically that's pinging you? I thought the purposeful ignorance was a bit of a stretch, but it didn't seem disingenuine.

Not really. Just don’t trust him yet. & I know he’s good at deep wolfing

I mainly just want a wagon going. Ideally on the peoples i said.

HURT: Tchilly

I’m not buying the billy thing. He’s got a D1 pass from me. Rn it feels like Tchill is trying to take attention away from himself & nit pick on a newbie

not one point before you're last post here do you provide a reason for why im scum. This means there's not really anything for me to respond to from this push. You then explain im scum for ignoring you. I have reason to ignore your push because i have nothing to respond to.

Where did i misrep you? Please, I'd like to know.

Was i supposed to respond to the accusation that i'm a deepwolf? You didn't provide reason for that either.

[Tchill13]

I’m not buying the billy thing. He’s got a D1 pass from me. Rn it feels like Tchill is trying to take attention away from himself & nit pick on a newbie

billy has 2 "passes", one from kicks and one from flippynips, because he comes off as a newbie.

I'm scum because i'm alarmed how much he comes off as a newbie because im aware that sometimes leads to early TR's, as it has here.

I do not KNOW billy is scum. I'm simply aware that it seems like he's pushing the newbie card a liiiiitle too much for my liking.

Billy doesn’t come off like that to me i can see how someone would think that. He’s not pushing it as hard as i think you’re implying. & its not like its been used as a cop out in my opinion.

& i never said i think hes town cos i was getting weird vibes from him too. But i get worse from you so he's got a

D1

. Unless you know something changes in 9 days

you never said billy was town but he's got a d1 pass from you?

Why are you handing out passes to players you don't even feel confident enough about to say they're town?

[Tchill13]

was going to unvote but im fighting you too hard on pushing me for no reason after acting like you had one.

convenient.

[Tchill13]

appreciate you giving an answer after pushing me in a dishonest manner.

jury is still out on you but im not one to tunnel.

[Tchill13]

Nippleflips is holding a door for scum!klick open while
shading datisi while
preparing for his actual scumread tchill to flip green while
already setting up the next scumread/lynch in billy for when tchill flips green while
already setting up a world where tchill is flipping green opposed to a world where his scumread flips red

This is scum folks

UNVOTE:

Now... Let me ask you this. Where's the SCUM motivation in all of it?

What flippynips has done is something wrong town could be doing. Wrong town with a playful attitude.

Now, flip could vee well be scum. How STUPID and AWFUL would his play be d1 though? Look at that pole kf garbage that you've rightfully pointed out.

Scum would be rewarded more for playing like datisi is, as Luca pointed out, rather than doing what emperor flippynips has done.

And see flippynips gets no town cred for extending the truce to me because I had him cornered and it was obvious that he was gonna end up in a tunnel v tunnel had he not offered the olive branch.

I have to separate scum motivation and poor town play from flippy atm.

Flippy blindly pushing me "just because" while giving bully a D1 pass "just because" while setting up a next lynch "if tchill flips green" is atrocious d1 scum play and surely... SURELY scum would be a little more careful. That's pretty reckless stuff.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: datisi

[Tchill13]

@icon— what are your reads looking like?

Not sure yet. Luca I like. Emporere flippynips and Billy I'm skeptical about.

Datisi is probably scum.

[Tchill13]

klick is a town lean huh?

[Tchill13]

Let me ask. Is klick getting tr's because it's unlikely he's done what he's done as scum this early?

Ik I removed my vote on that same reasoning with flippy. I don't agree with that perspective on klick though.

Mainly because it's very surface lvl with klick and I felt flippynips issues were more complex.

[Tchill13]

Tbf I'm probably grasping at straws a bit, I've drank a bit too much tonight lol. But this game is stalling and needs to go somewhere

That's the whole point tbh, RVS is pointless but it's used as a starting point to get into actual game talk. I try to do my best to find something, anything, to work with from RVS. Though talking about it in this meta way probably invalidates a fair bit of that.

Someone come chat with me, I'm town and I feel like I can make myself fairly obvious town in this state lmao

These posts scream town to me

How do they scream town? They're NAI and contain almost no good content.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: kop

can we pile up here please? 2 posts for the duration of this game isn't phenomenal, maybe we can squeeze his thoughts out of him

Man, that datisi push was so aggressive and violent... And short.

You do realize piling votes on players with no activity does absolutely nothing right?

Looks like a weak reason to hope off datisi real quick.

[Tchill13]

I've marked in red the parts that are pinging me. It simply seems as if he's trying to position himself in a "town-leadrer, voice of reason" position and to appear much more busy/credible than he is. Also note that these posts came after I nulled Luca.

There are multiple instances (you even marked them red) where he says he is busy and his reads are a work in progress (which they should be?)
From this you make a story that says 'he's positioning himself as town leader' that doesn't make sense

You also said you think his posts are devoid of life, which is ok to say but I disagree. You change your story to 'his posting seems fake' which is not a lesser degree of 'devoid of life', but something else entirely. You kinda had to change, because you know you can't sell his posts as empty.

VOTE: Datisi

This is good to see.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: kop

What the hell icon... A little AtE and datisi is town again?

[Tchill13]

Oh my lord we actually had someone do a fake a hammer. My eyes rolled back so far in my head I can't read the rest of the thread...

Anyone voting kop is not accomplishing anything atm. If he's gonna be replaced he's gonna be replaced.

A kop vote looks like somebody that's wanting to stop momentum of what's going on atm.

We had a lot of pressure on datisi. Then 3 kop votes appeared. I disagree with that. We should go back to pressuring datisi.

[Tchill13]

Luca

A50
Billy
Flippynips
Klick
Icon
Datisi

[Tchill13]

If I'm assuming that datisi and iconeum are scum.

Then it's not a surprise to see a quick push on the inactive slot.

Some scum want to keep slots like that around for lylo.

Kop and icon seem like the type of scum that would just want a lynch to get by, without necessarily playing for the endgame.

[Tchill13]

@luca

Datisi and icon are both nitpicking rn and they both pushed the inactive slot. The least productive thing they could have done. When did they do this?

When datisi was being pressured more than she has been the entire game so far.

[Tchill13]

It'd be harder to get steam on Luca than kop atm.

Hence the shading while pushing kop.

[Tchill13]

Does 366 matter if he votes a guy that only made 2 posts the entire game 4 posts later? No.

366 does not matter because his immediate vote switch shows he's not serious about the vote. Actions speak louder than words.

[Tchill13]

Datisi and icon. My apologies.

[Tchill13]

Pushing someone with no votes on them and pushing someone with 3 votes on them are 2 completely different things in terms of how dangerous those actions are.

One isn't dangerous at all and could be half hearted. The other could lead to a lynch.

[Tchill13]

Does 366 matter if he votes a guy that only made 2 posts the entire game 4 posts later? No.

366 does not matter because his immediate vote switch shows he's not serious about the vote. Actions speak louder than words.

Thought it mattered since you commented it's "good to see".

Icon was the first person to call me out for lurking though? Why does he do that, then go straight back to town!Datisi after what you feel is a weak defense?

It was good to see but the quick vote change I hadn't come upon yet immediately redacted the intention of 366 to begin with. I didn't know he was about to vote switch again immediately.

I think I had voted you, he was 2nd... Why does he call you out for lurking with obviously no real intent to build a push against you?

He immediately votes the inactive slot WITH the person he just called out.

Shows that his push wasn't too genuine imo.

[Tchill13]

I'd rather not get caught up in semantics so I'll say this.

Votes at the beginning of the wagon and votes in the middle of the wagon mean separate things in terms of the validity and danger o them imo. Because it's easy to vote someone early. A "put your money where your mouth is perspective" I guess.

[Tchill13]

And the only thing I've seen you do worth noting is become active once pushed. Then push the inactive slot WITH the guy that called you a lurker. Very odd to me. Your reads don't have much depth to them.

I'm fine stating datisi and kop are definitely top priorities atm.

[Tchill13]

Another error. That's annoying ik. Sorry.

[Tchill13]

I declare bankruptcy

Oh wait a minute, wrong website.

I declare replacement requestment of kop

[Tchill13]

Ay yo Billy, how's that read on me looking rn?

If you like you can have a dialog with me... Who's scum other than kop and why? Who's your top 2 town reads and why?

[Tchill13]

Fuck sake, I remember why I stopped playing this game now.

(this post isn't intended to cause anyone any harm or be intentionally hurtful)

I almost replaced out when I saw alisae replace in.

I hope you keep playing. Just ignore the tunneling and vomit posting.

Datisi/billy/alisae is your wagon atm which isn't great imo.

Datisi should definitely be the d1 lynch here. I haven't caught up on the vomit posting as I've been sick myself.

[Tchill13]

I'd like to know why there are votes on Luca. Specifically from Billy and datisi.

If someone tells me to go back and read I'm not going to do that due to the large number of posts I've missed.

If you refuse to tell me still, that's understandable, but I'm not going to go back and read.

[Tchill13]

I like the fact that there's meaning behind the Luca stance in the "wording" of his reads.

Of the 2 you definitely have more solid foundation with your Luca read imo (even though I do have him as one of my stronger tr's atm)

Have you reread the entire game? Specifically the first 15 pages?

I remember wagon formation specifically having an impact on my SR's early. At least the SR's I've been pushing as of late.

Datisi and Billy.

[Tchill13]

Ah yes it was because datisi was pressured and the kop wagon formed as soon as datisi's wagon grew to a size where it could have been pushed through.

And datisi and Billy went from pushing one another to voting WITH each other in the blink of an eye.

And now they're voting WITH each other again.

And I BET alisae, you've given more foundation to a Luca SR than either Billy or datisi has.

[Tchill13]

792 855 901 925
Luca's posts are either quoted or very close to mine

Have you only really pressed ppl as scum that have pushed you as scum this game?

The only 2 I can remember are Billy and Luca.

[Tchill13]

Iirc Billy actually misunderstood one of my posts and was later corrected. Plus he started SRing Luca himself

That's fine. I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if Alisae has brought THE MOST to the table in terms of a Luca SR.

[Tchill13]

I mean you pushed Billy after he pushed you.

You pushed Luca after he pushed you.

And it is a very large coincidence. Not as large as a kop wagon growing out of nowhere when steam was picking up on the datisi wagon though.

[Tchill13]

Tchill why do u TR Luca?

I'm about to lay back down. I'll get to this though. It's early game reasons I'll have to look it up, sorry.

[Tchill13]

Lucas's early game was way better than anyone else's from my perspective.

Datisi came alive when pushed.

Flippynips was a weird mixture of nonsensical posting and pushing me with no real reason (flippy admitted this)

Billy came off as trying to be perceived as ignorant.

Klick mentioned starting a town block.

Kop was MIA.

Luca was the ONLY player that seemed like I'd have any luck working with in the first 10 pages of the game and while I do agree alisae mentioning the "fence sitting" of Luca sounds good in theory if you'll go back and look at luca's iso he's only hard SR'd datisi and has only voted... Datisi.

[Tchill13]

The interaction between datisi and icon has left a terrible taste in my mouth with both of them.

If we lynch Luca and he flips town I will be extremely annoyed... Plus the idea that datisi AND iconeum will probably both still be in play at the beginning of D2 isn't a pleasant one to me. If one or both are town they've already proven they don't care voting with players they just believed were scum. That type makes for great scum TOOLS imo.

[Tchill13]

Lucas's early game was way better than anyone else's from my perspective.

talk to me about it?
When I read the game I found that Luca didn't really do anything significant or substantial like at all

I subscribe to the school of thought that you don't have to have the game figured out early. Sometimes you just let it come to you. It's very difficult to disrupt the flow of RVS and out of comparison alone like I mentioned Luca was the only player that didn't make me... Alarmed so to speak.

Now I'm not one to try and catch scum D1 based off gut or feeling. That maybe a confidence issue or it maybe that observing the entire play list, weighing the pros and cons in terms of level headedness, ability to be manipulated by scum, who I would want in lylo if I were scum in a given game... Works better for me in the early game.

Icon and datisi are players if be trying to get to lylo if I were scum here.

I don't see how you can debate in a hypothetical where icon, Datisi, and Luca were all town.

Luca would be the most destructive to scum throughout an entire game.

There's also actual scum motivation in voting WITH someone who just pressured you to get a lynch through as datisi voted WITH icon to get at the time an inactive slots lynched push through.

[Tchill13]

Lucas's early game was way better than anyone else's from my perspective.

talk to me about it?
When I read the game I found that Luca didn't really do anything significant or substantial like at all

What was substantially GOOD about the other players?

So far I've seen icon and datisi vote every which way a wagon was.

[Tchill13]

And if you say "they're intentions were in the right place" that's not gonna hold up.

I noticed you said I was "just wrong" but not manipulative in your early read of me. That's fine I have no pride about my early game. I'd like to know where the others (not me or Luca) were particularly correct though.

[Tchill13]

But I had a reason for ignoring you.

I wanted to see how you'd react to me NOT reacting to you, and see how other people would react to that...

We can both do that lol.

You came off just excited to play, with no real reason for posting. I'm glad you're happy to play lol just wasn't a lot of reasoning in your posting.

[Tchill13]

Oh, I thought you were talking about me SR Icon.

When did I push Billy? I've been consistently TRing him this game.

It WAS icon. Not Billy. Apologies for another name slip up.

[Tchill13]

@luca

Why has your datisi read disappeared? Why Are you needing a better place to put it and why are you becoming paranoid about me?

@alisae

You never "returned serve" on my explanations for town Luca.

[Tchill13]

like Flippynips just seems really consensus and I'm not sure I'm too happy about that

The lynch should still be datisi.

What has flippynips done to change that?

[Tchill13]

@alisae

What have the "other" done correctly early game? Because you said I was "just wrong" In your early reads of players.

I'd specifically like to know what datisi/Icon/Billy were doing correctly.

[Tchill13]

Luca's recent posting is actually something that doesn't make me scream "kill it"
its like not bad and I can see myself being wrong there

Your stance on Luca changes as soon as luca takes a vote off datisi and puts it somewhere else.

[Tchill13]

Too many vote changes/weird push then vote WITH moments centered around datisi.

She needs to go.

[Tchill13]

@Tchill

The interaction between datisi and icon has left a terrible taste in my mouth with both of them.

If we lynch Luca and he flips town I will be extremely annoyed... Plus the idea that datisi AND iconeum will probably both still be in play at the beginning of D2 isn't a pleasant one to me. If one or both are town they've already proven they don't care voting with players they just believed were scum. That type makes for great scum TOOLS imo.

Thats cool.
I'm probably going to re-evaluate Datisi if Luca flips town.
Luca's vote and the speed of the actual wagon kind of just was too much for me

--

Lucas's early game was way better than anyone else's from my perspective.

talk to me about it?
When I read the game I found that Luca didn't really do anything significant or substantial like at all

I subscribe to the school of thought that you don't have to have the game figured out early. Sometimes you just let it come to you. It's very difficult to disrupt the flow of RVS and out of comparison alone like I mentioned Luca was the only player that didn't make me... Alarmed so to speak.

Now I'm not one to try and catch scum D1 based off gut or feeling. That maybe a confidence issue or it maybe that observing the entire play list, weighing the pros and cons in terms of level headedness, ability to be manipulated by scum, who I would want in lylo if I were scum in a given game... Works better for me in the early game.

Icon and datisi are players if be trying to get to lylo if I were scum here.

I don't see how you can debate in a hypothetical where icon, Datisi, and Luca were all town.

Luca would be the most destructive to scum throughout an entire game.

There's also actual scum motivation in voting WITH someone who just pressured you to get a lynch through as datisi voted WITH icon to get at the time an inactive slots lynched push through.

I want to point out that, the desire to be right is important. You don't HAVE to be right, actually being right isn't important as long as you WANT to be right.
Also it feels good to be right.
So when you're saying that you don't really want to worry making sure your D1 solve is ACTUALLY right, thats fine as long as you are showing that you want to be right.
Again, you don't have to BE right, just want to be right.

Lucas's early game was way better than anyone else's from my perspective.

talk to me about it?
When I read the game I found that Luca didn't really do anything significant or substantial like at all

What was substantially GOOD about the other players?

So far I've seen icon and datisi vote every which way a wagon was.

I actually didn't really read Icon's posts early. I figured if he was scum, he would be at his best then, and if he's town, we'll he's going to be at his best anyways, so I don't think I would have gotten anything out of his earlier posts, but a lot more out of his later posts and his interaction with Datisi.
I think Klick's early game is really good. I definitely feel like he was solving and I was able to see that every step of the way. I'm still seeing this desire to try to figure out people's motivations with his recent posting.
Billy just comes across as really town to me. He just, does.
Flippy is also someone who had an early game that I find it hard to actually focus on. But I think his response to the Kop wagon is good enough? I will say, it definitely leaves more to be desired.
When it comes to A50, I'm sold on him not really knowing what to do, I can see it happening completely, and I don't think that he would be like this if he was scum? I don't see why he would be, there's so much going on its easy to take any side, and I can see him being lost with a bunch of townreads and not really knowing where to go with them.
Datisi I'll agree with there, kinda does come across as how you're describing her, but I really don't think thats scum indicative. I feel like in her hunting and how she's reaching those answers come from a place where she wants to try and figure out motivations and also work with people she trusts. I can see why you think she's voting every which way, but I don't think thats scum indicative here.

--

And if you say "they're intentions were in the right place" that's not gonna hold up.

I noticed you said I was "just wrong" but not manipulative in your early read of me. That's fine I have no pride about my early game. I'd like to know where the others (not me or Luca) were particularly correct though.

I refered to you as "just wrong" because one thing you were saying about Datisi was that she was "pushing" kop and I really don't see how her vote was like a push and more like "I am going to work with Iconeum here"

anyhow I kind of hope that this helps?

So 2 ppl are "just town" due to meta or gut (Billy and flippy) ... You didn't even read icon. Klick was "putting effort in the right place". A50 is town because of a lack of stances? Datisi is town because of WHY she's trying to solve things?

Didn't alarm you at all datisi and icon voted together after pushing each other? That wasn't odd at all?

[Tchill13]

@luca

Why has your datisi read disappeared? Why Are you needing a better place to put it and why are you becoming paranoid about me?

@alisae

You never "returned serve" on my explanations for town Luca.

It’s just a feeling I’m getting; it’s actually been building for a while now but the gamestate felt so rigid that I was perhaps reluctant to listen to it. I will try and explain it when I have time.

I haven’t read too deeply the recent pages, but something Icon said about you townreading me yet not really defending me planted the thought in my mind. Also the fact you’ve been so quiet recently ( along with a few others). Activity is obviously NAI because there could be any number of reasons for it, but I can’t help but feel paranoid when certain players go missing during important stages in the game. Flippy in particular has completely stepped out of the firing line. I also jus get the sense that you’re a really good player and someone who could have me fooled. I haven’t ISO’d you yet but these are just my views as of this very moment.

I've been quite because of a stomach bug that wouldn't allow me to sit up straight lol.

You actually pocketed me as scum last time we played together. To the extent that I still remember your name after a year lol.

I don't really have to defend you, but I have. Pointing out your levelheadedness and the fact you're the only one that's not doing anything rash. You've been consistent in your reads.

From the 1v1 I did with flippy I feel pretty good about that slot. I couldn't discern "scum motivation" from "bad town play" in all his interactions with me which leaves me to believe he's town.

You could argue the truce is scum motivated but town actually WANT to stay alive also.

Not sure how a townie immediately votes with someone they believe to be scum to try and push through an inactive slot though... Aka datisi.

[Tchill13]

So 2 ppl are "just town" due to meta or gut (Billy and flippy) ... You didn't even read icon. Klick was "putting effort in the right place". A50 is town because of a lack of stances? Datisi is town because of WHY she's trying to solve things?

Didn't alarm you at all datisi and icon voted together after pushing each other? That wasn't odd at all?

no meta on Billy or Flippy
I didn't read Icon because I thought he would get progressively easier to read the deeper into the game we were
A50 Townreads everyone in a way that I find believable

I'm not OK with Billy or flippy getting a clear from you due to gut and no reasoning you can build a foundation on.

Not reading icon at all is fun. He's part of the reason I'm pushing datisi so hard. At least read with the intent to know what's going on. Not necessarily the same effort to SOLVE but you get my point.

A50 I have to catch up on. He didn't get active until I got sick.

[Tchill13]

@alisae

What have the "other" done correctly early game? Because you said I was "just wrong" In your early reads of players.

I'd specifically like to know what datisi/Icon/Billy were doing correctly.

icon didn't read
Datisi was trying to figure out the game
Billy just seemed to be really town

--

Luca's recent posting is actually something that doesn't make me scream "kill it"
its like not bad and I can see myself being wrong there

Your stance on Luca changes as soon as luca takes a vote off datisi and puts it somewhere else.

I suggested flippynips and then Luca takes his vote off???????????
see, I said you're wrong because your mindset here is votes not what people are saying

That's interesting. The votes and saying part. Voting is the only action ppl have rn. So in inclined to give voting the most respect of any content I see.

People can say whatever they want. Actions speak louder than words. I'll check up on the Luca unvote though.

[Tchill13]

Didn't alarm you at all datisi and icon voted together after pushing each other? That wasn't odd at all?

@peanut gallery, specificly Klick
Does this bother you at all?
I'm not sure if I'm overeacting but the insistance of pushing this is
bothering me?

I'm not sure what to think of it because I feel like this is something scum pushes but I could definitely see this being posted by town!tchill

It's due to the timing. Specifically because datisi was in danger of being lynched. Then votes with the person that pushed her. Votes an inactive slot and pushes for the inactive to be lynched before a replaceme in.

Yes I very much believe datisi is scum. I'd also love to hear how there's no scum motivation in that breakdown.

[Tchill13]

@alisae

Yes everyone can say what they want.

I put SUCH an emphasis on d1 votes because there no actions to go back and look upon.

If you think you should play d1 the way you should play the rest of the game I just disagree with that idea entirely. Considering how abnormal d1 is compared to the rest of the game.

[Tchill13]

Putting someone at L-2 isn't pushing for someone to be lynched?

Lol OK.

[Tchill13]

Then the fuck is putting someone at L-1?

It's pushing a lynch.

[Tchill13]

If you think you should play d1 the way you should play the rest of the game I just disagree with that idea entirely. Considering how abnormal d1 is compared to the rest of the game.

I actually play the game very different once flips start popping up and in general people start to slip up while town just keeps playing the game.
But like, going to the extent to say that what people are saying D1 doesn’t matter at all just because they can say anything they want??????? Yeah I’m not so sure about that dude

It's matters what they say obviously. That's not what I'm getting at... Never mind. I'm just dropping that conversation entirely.

My, game theory shit when discussed with others just leads in circles on this site. Just keeping it to myself.

[Tchill13]

Putting someone at L-2 isn't pushing for someone to be lynched?

Lol OK.

I really don’t think the intent there was to lynch

Hard to sell me on they're just forming a read by putting someone at L-2.

[Tchill13]

I'm gonna go back and reread the interaction that made me believe datisi is scum.

At quick glance it looked like it went datisi/kop/datisi because of vote counts... It alarmed me enough to put actual time in it.

[Tchill13]

@alisae I actually wouldn't mind a game theory conversation post game. Ik you're one of the more successful players here.

Also, exactly. Why even vote the inactive slot if you don't have intent to lynch.

It's more than likely because you intend to EVADE the lynch. Datisi was in the most danger of being lynched. Scum could have seemingly pushed through a datisi lynch and just been fine. Something happened and a kop lynch grew...

Wonder why.

[Tchill13]

Is this 3 replacements? We're not even at D2...

[Tchill13]

please lynch datisi and end the day

[Tchill13]

Flippynips is not scum. His d1 has been too poor and lacks any real thought process from the perspective of a scum agenda.

[Tchill13]

so like, claim?

You're pushing for 2 claims to be had d1? Cool.

[Tchill13]

Idiocracy runs this coocoo nest.

[Tchill13]

Alisae AND datisi can't be alive going into d3.

[Tchill13]

Datisi could have been looking to lynch the MIA scummate for town cred earlier in the day phase when she was getting pushed hard then voted WITH icon. Both players went from pushing each other to voting with the each other in the blink of an eye

Datisi should have been the lynch. If flippy is a PR Shame on the townies that voted them.

[Tchill13]

I'm gonna replace out if you keep vomit posting and using this temperament.

[Tchill13]

You do it as town so you can get away with it as scum. Anything that doesn't contribute to town is done for that purpose.

[Tchill13]

I'm just salty town is being lynched.

I'm much saltier about the player base and the way some ppl manipulate this site and hold back as town so scum games are easier for them.

[Tchill13]

Actually my scumgame is very different from my towngame
I expose myself in other ways that are out of my control

But sure dude
Whatever you say

Everyone, literally everyone says this lol.

[Tchill13]

Well I was about to come out of the gates pushing Alisae hard due to her Luca tunnel then hammer of flippy.

Luca is a hard tr for me atm.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: klick

I think I got a nice TR on datisi as well.

I reread the entire game. It definitely changed some things.

[Tchill13]

I played a pretty lazy d1 and definitely wasn't on top of the nitty-gritty details.

When yall voted kop the kop wagon only got 2 votes total.

Alisae single handedly dismantled your wagon which eventually grew into the flippynips wagon.

I'm very surprised Alisae was town. I'm glad she was the nk though because I'm not sure I would have been able to see her as town.

She's a strong town player and I hate to see her go. Would have been rough for me to try and figure that out though. Not sure I could have.

[Tchill13]

Here's to hoping this isn't a gambit.

[Tchill13]

Klick and icon are actually my biggest scum reads atm.

Uzi still had to be sorted along with A50.

Datisi and Luca town.

[Tchill13]

I played a pretty lazy d1 and definitely wasn't on top of the nitty-gritty details.

When yall voted kop the kop wagon only got 2 votes total.

Alisae single handedly dismantled your wagon which eventually grew into the flippynips wagon.

I'm very surprised Alisae was town. I'm glad she was the nk though because I'm not sure I would have been able to see her as town.

She's a strong town player and I hate to see her go. Would have been rough for me to try and figure that out though. Not sure I could have.

the datisi wagon got 2 votes total, then kop got ran up to L-1, THEN Datisi got ran up to L-1, THEN Alisae dismantled that and eventually the flippynips wagon grew. SHEESH. So sorry for messing that up so much.

anyway datisi i thought your wagon was larger b4 the kop wagon grew, it wasn't, which is the main reason i hard SR'd you. You're not town for reasons i'll delve into later. I'll explain my luca tr later also. I just want to see who pushes what first.

[Tchill13]

I really need to reassess my reads entirely, though I still feel pretty confident of Icon being Town unless he has me utterly fooled.

I can’t help but think scum have tried to set me up by killing Alisae, but I have to say I’m relieved I won’t have to deal with their BS for another day.

I’m naturally feeling a bit suspicious of uzi given in his catch-up he seemed to hold no suspicion of Flippy, which was something I couldn’t relate to and found odd even before the flip. I will read back in a few hours to reassess .

dude you gotta stop only assessing things ONLY in terms of how they pertain to you..

Whats your read on me now that flippy is town?

why is icon SO town?

[Tchill13]

not bad. I agree. Need to sort A50 and i'd have to lean scum there opposed to town atm.

[Tchill13]

well now klick can full claim.

[Tchill13]

It's already shaping up to be a D2 lynch pool of A50, Klick and Uzi; I think there is a very good chance of there being 2 scum among these three players. I'm going to ISO Uzi next.

i need to understand why icon isn't in there.

[Tchill13]

Aslo luca why is datisi town?

Why am I town?

[Tchill13]

you will be answered in due time as well icon. Just as I will from luca.

[Tchill13]

It's already shaping up to be a D2 lynch pool of A50, Klick and Uzi; I think there is a very good chance of there being 2 scum among these three players. I'm going to ISO Uzi next.

i need to understand why icon isn't in there.

why would i be in a lynch pool?

you were on kop, datisis and flippynips when they were all L-1 last day phase.

[Tchill13]

Datisi, if I'm scum I NK Alisae close to 212% of the time for being a powerplayer alone.

lol

[Tchill13]

I don't go against him in game, I NK him.

WIFOM that all you want, you know it's true.

LMAO

[Tchill13]

I've said what i'd do and then did it as scum b4, its not impossible that you're doing the same, it's also not very hard to pull off.

I want luca to state his reads before i go into exactly why i believe he's town.

so i should just ignore the fact that you were wagon happy d1?

[Tchill13]

i dont scum read you solely for alisae being dead but thx for summing it up for the group.

[Tchill13]

There's also no way I'm supporting a Luca lynch today with both Datisi and Ali on it

the big fight you're referring to is me vs Tchilly

you've really not read the last 20-30 pages have you

Me/Ali/Luca/Datisi is more closely to what I was referring

you were on the lynch that included datisi and alisae (yes ali was the hammer, but you still voted with datisi)

you also fought with those 3 as a group and ended up lynching someone with the help of those 3, 2 if you don't include ali.

you spent a majority of d1 fighting with a conf townie in ali. You spent a majority of d1 on wagons that were on L-1.

you specifically mention killing ali if you were scum here and she were town... then she's NK'd. (you can fight me on this but the WIFOM won't work here, it's obvious you believe it's in your best interest to kill ali regardless if your scum and she's town.)

Why WOULDN'T you be in a lynch pool?

[Tchill13]

and why are you so eager to 1v1? first ali for her LUCA sr... now me? Aggressive much?

[Tchill13]

and why are you so eager to 1v1? first ali for her LUCA sr... now me? Aggressive much?

trying to sort you

You have a scumread on Datisi and me, do you think we are scum together?

I've changed my mind about Datisi. I actually lean town there.

You provided good answers in your rebuttle though. I do believe most of the player base kills ali n1. Especially if you and luca are town. It eliminates a good player AND incriminates you or luca.

I think you "argued" with ali for the right reasons in the moment. Just because she flipped town doesn't change that.

I basically just wanted to see what you'd say.

you being on all the wagons worried me but I do feel better about you.

[Tchill13]

Well i feel good about luca town but time will tell and i'll explain when he's done. either way I'll be confident with that slot soon.

Datisi i messed up on. I didn't correctly assess the wagon growths which is why i thought she was scum. Rereading and seeing how she handled pressure overall made me feel better about her... And when a strong town player does flip I DO take their reads into consideration. Ali dismantled her wagon and while i couldn't find substantial reasons for ali believing datisi was town thats still worth noting.

A50 and Lil Uzi didn't give much contnet, neither had a vote laid down at the time of lynch. THIS is why I was so annoyed at lynch. These 2 really were never forced to take a stance.

Klick is scummy AF. 40 posts d1, little to no content that meant anything, Luca highlighted that he took a very nuetral stance when wagons were switching up and has now outed you while soft claiming himself.

Klick is a great place to start looking for scum.

[Tchill13]

I propose a massclaim. If enough people agree to one, I'm fine to start.

on d2? Datisis has already claimed VT. 2 other VT's have died. 7 ppl left 1 is VT. 6 players that we dont know about. if we have 2 scum then thats 4 slots scum dont know about and you want to eliminate that advantage for town on a day where if we mislynch we go to MYLO?

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Iconeum
Really not buying that.

Icon earlier with me you did assume that most of the player base would kill Ali.

Why risk that when we had several low content slots to sort? LUV and A50, hell even klick.

[Tchill13]

Your responses read like you thought I was a Tracker or a Watcher or something similar and limped into an Alisae investigation as a result.

PEdit: Icon claimed Cop in the middle of D1 - I didn't 'out' him.

then why isn't icon dead?

Can you point me to that claim please?

[Tchill13]

I feel that datisi is town, I do not know that.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: icon

I do not consent to masscclaim.

I do want to know why icon targeted ali over 3 slots with low content when he even stated ali would more than likely die n1 if she were town.

[Tchill13]

and do not lynch icon for a while please. Even if he's obviously the lynch i do have stuff id like to ask/say.

[Tchill13]

Icon earlier with me you did assume that most of the player base would kill Ali.Why risk that when we had several low content slots to sort? LUV and A50, hell even klick.

In hindsight it's a bad call on my part

With Ali pushing strong against Luca and me, and me having claimed cop, I thought there was a decent chance Ali would be alive.
The benefit would be to have confirmation of what is the loudest and most interesting slot in this game.

Imagine a D2 where both Datisi and Ali are alive?
There's also something of an ease of mind that I could come into D2 and just know what's up with Ali.

damn it dude why did you even claim cop d1? for shits and giggles?

You realize you have to die today because of the fact that your invest died (Extremely convenient) you've already admitted that your invest had the highest likelihood of dying if she were town.

YOU DIDNT DIE (Extremely convenient)

and mainly because you claimed d1 and didnt even BOTHER to crumb your n1 target, or you would have already pointed that out.

[Tchill13]

how is asking for a massclaim at this point anything less then seeing if it's opportune and possible to kill the claimed cop?

why not just kill the cop? Really gonna risk being guiltied just to get Ali out of the game?

[Tchill13]

did you even crumb your target?

[Tchill13]

Hell yeah klick.

And I would suggest crumbing from now on based on the fact alone that crumbing isn't near as stupid as claiming cop day one.

You've gotta be the lynch unless I can clear you with that "dumb town" stuff I used for flippynips.

And I'm not sure I have two of those in me in the same game.

[Tchill13]

ok full disclosure

town loyal mailman

i get to send a message to a player every night
town gets the message
scum doesn't

if i was NK'd (fully expecting to be), Ali would get a message with information
the message was worded in a way that is undoubtebly coming from me and he would be able to prove so in game

if ali is scum then it was a waste upon my NK

Why the hell wouldn't you crumb with a LOYAL role.

Seriously dude I don't understand. Crumbing is "beneath" you but fake claiming cop d1 isn't?

What a destructive mindset to try and eat the nk while investigating Ali. That doesn't even MAKE SENSE.

Especially considering you could crumb your invest, if you die because of your loyal modifier scum simply can't avoid being outed.

If you die and there's only one death town have to take into consideration that you were the scum nk even if they find your crumb.

So both scenarios leave town with more to work with than "ah screw it if Ali is scum town will never find out anyway because I'll either die to my modifier or be night killed"

In no way shape or form can you POSSIBLY even think you're going to help us with that plan.

What you've provided isn't a plan to help town. It's an excuse to cover up that you're scum.

Unless I missed something?

[Tchill13]

okay sure kill me

So you're mad at me for following a legitimate line of thinking?

I shouldn't kill you just because scum shouldn't claim cop d1?

TOWN SHOULD NOT CLAIM COP DAY ONE. HOW ABOUT THAT?

Sheesh. Sick and tired of this solo gambit shit. And then they (the player lying for no reason) get fed up when I don't want to put up with their crap. This gets SO damn old... It's why I quit this site for a year.

Explain yourself. Explain what part of my like of thinking about you not being able to help town AT ALL with your plan is wrong.

[Tchill13]

if you truthfully think i am going to claim COP of all things as SCUM, you don't know what you are doing

You're an idiot for claiming cop day one. You are projecting said idiocy onto other players for not understanding how STUPID you're being.

The rest of town bears the burden of having to realize someone can't POSSIBLY be stupid enough to claim cop d1 as scum.

And then you get fed up with them when they don't react how you like. What a dumb way to validate your play dude. You're not alone though. So many other ppl do it here too.

[Tchill13]

If I claim loyal mailman, there's gonna be extremely little doubt that it is in fact true. Claiming cop at that time with the pressure I was under would at least convince some that it could be a fake claim that could make the difference in my survival

So you're goal, was to claim something that was met with hesitancy? While you were under pressure?

[Tchill13]

Right. Satisfied with the fact that TOWN-Loyal-Mailman!Icon has zero reason to claim Cop D1. The reasoning we've finally gotten from Icon has come far too late to be his legitimate reasoning at the time - he would have given it ages ago in this questioning.

Tchill is town because he didn't notice Icon's claim at all - it would have been a talking point in their PT if they were buddies.

Oh my lord I feel like I'm at the little kids table at Thanksgiving if you're gonna tr me with that reasoning lol. Of course I'm throwing a tantrum atm like I'mat that table too. Fair is fair I guess.

[Tchill13]

my goal was to mess up Ali's thinking

Throw away any trust you might build with other players just to better understand one?

So damn selfish. You've now put everyone in a predicament where they have to weigh your survival and your plan (that wouldn't give town ANY info at all) against the stupidity of scum claiming cop d1.

Do you know how frustrating a position that is to be in?

[Tchill13]

Tchill I think we use very different methods of scumhunting, but I think they're equally valid. That isn't to say either of them are perfect! But I think we do things differently and that's okay, probably good even.
I've had a lot of trouble gelling with your line of thinking all game, but I'm just gonna give it a pass as you doing things your way.

I have issues sorting town that don't post much. I'm definitely a unique player here. Ppl tend to hate my play more often than agree with it. I do believe diversity in play style is good though as long as there's an open mindedness and willingness to work together.

[Tchill13]

Do you know how frustrating a position that is to be in?

Have you read the game D1? Were you reading it at the time it was happening or close to it?

THAT was frustrating.

Please don't use your own points of frustration to justify solo play in the future.

You've put me in a very, very difficult position.

It's funny now that you're asking me to view you from the same perspective I looked at flippynips to clear him.

Well buddy you lynched flippynips. Why should I give you that same approach?

I specifically SCREAMED that scum would be too dumb to play as flippynips as.

Now you're asking me to clear you on the same like of thinking when you refused to even attempt that thought process with flippynips.

[Tchill13]

how is asking for a massclaim at this point anything less then seeing if it's opportune and possible to kill the claimed cop?

why not just kill the cop? Really gonna risk being guiltied just to get Ali out of the game?

I AIN'T EVEN about to speak about "right call" lol... Like "the right thing to do" is throw everything out the window so you can better understand ONE DAMN PLAYER lol... I'll never understand.

Look you don't give off a self centered vibe. If you did it'd be much easier for me to clear you as town here. Egotistical players tend to make shit plays such as this as town more often than the players that are shy or are generally just more adept to working with others.

I'm actually thinking that you're probably town here and I'm pretty damn disgusted that I'm having to lean that way.

I'll have to go back and read the interaction again. My goodness is there a lot of power in "scum don't claim cop d1"... But there's just as much power in "scum kill claimed cop d1"... Except for the fact that there's the threat of the protective. And that is the ONLY REASON I MIGHT end up town reading you... I have to reread the claim though, which I'll do tomorrow.

[Tchill13]

What are you talking about with regards to Nipples?

Nippleflips played such a SHIT day 1 if he were scum that I simply believed he was town because of it.

I can never convince others someo is town when I use my "bad town play not scum agenda" reasoning though. So it's a fault on my end somewhere.

But basically you're saying "I CAN'T be scum scum don't claim cop day one"

You're saying that to clear yourself as town because it's such a BAD idea d1 for scum to do they'll never do it.

Now apply that reasoning to flippynips entire day one. His entire day one was so bad from a scums perspective that there's no way he's ever scum there. That's HOW I town read him.

And then ppl (datisi, you and Luca ) started grouping me and flippynips as scum simply because he was having a bad d1 and I was still defending him even though he pushed me.

It's like you 3 in particular couldn't view flippynips from the perspective I viewed him.

You're very capable of it. You're trying to clear yourself with the same like of thinking I cleared flippynips with at this very moment.

There's a breakdown, a disconnect between when I try to explain it on behalf of flippynips and when you try to explain it on your behalf though.

I'm infatuated with this because my "bad town" reads are my most consistently correct reads but they're also the ones I fail to talk ppl into the most. I'm trying to figure out where I'm going wrong... Sorry about the long post. It's just extremely intriguing to me.

[Tchill13]

Town!Icon answers my question immediately and with a consistent answer

wrong assumption

@klick

Dude if icon gets lynched I honestly won't even be mad. I definitely understand it. I'm just saying that when ego gets involved it tends to derail the "town react to x this way" theory. While I agree with you... that theory is never correct 100 percent of the time. The only times I ever see it go wrong are when players are playing selfishly... And look what we have here.

But by all means continue to push icon. I'm not gonna stop you. I suggested all plays like icon made should be policied at one point. I still believe that.

I just want to see what A50 and LUV have to offer.

Because I'm still only sure about Luca.

[Tchill13]

See I need a new name for it. You just immediately got offended at the "bad play". As I'm sure flippynips did. It's not intended for that. I'm not saying I'm better than anyone by saying "their day was shit" I'm simply saying they played it in a manner that let me know they were town, but not because they were towny... And you're trying to get me to clear you on the fact that scum wouldn't claim cop d1, which is essentially the same thing. You just immediately missed the point of my entire Long post because you noticed I was comparing you to "bad play" and immediately that's all you cared about. That's what I'm saying it's very intriguing how ppl react to this but frustrating because I can't get them to understand what I'm trying to say.

Anyways...

You've forced yourself to be read on one play and one play alone. Because you're still alive after claiming cop d1, but scum would be too stupid to claim cop d1.

So don't put this on me. It's your own damn fault.

[Tchill13]

I swear klick I'll respond first thing tomorrow but I have to go to sleep. It's 4:30 am here haha.

[Tchill13]

Icon should target LUV.

We lynch A50.

[Tchill13]

In order to assume Icon is town you have to have a scumteam that chooses to kill Alisae over a claimed Cop. The options for that are slim, methinks.

Yeah but sometimes scum get scared that a protective is on the only claim d1. So of course Ali is the next option.

Hell it might be a good idea to mass claim atm considering the predicament icon has caused.

[Tchill13]

Anyway, my reads are evolving all the time. Right now I’m feeling Klick is possibly Town based on the recent developments. The reads I haven’t fully covered I will cover tomorrow. Right now, I think A50 is the most likely to be scum.

VOTE: Almost50

Klick, when Luca is done with his reads I'll discuss his slot with you.

[Tchill13]

UNVOTE:

[Tchill13]

What rubse the wrong way about icon is his responses to my pressure of him before the cop claim, was brought up.

Those responses don't look like they'd come from a claimed PR.

Icon also looked like he had no intentions of bringing up the fact that he was a cop... Or letting us know what happened.

He didn't present info until pressure.

I'm still back and forth here. I just unvoted to make sure the day doesn't end anytime soon.

[Tchill13]

Well this is uneventful.

[Tchill13]

Yeah I believe I'm still wanting to see your breakdowns of me and icon still. Similar to the ones you've already posted.

[Tchill13]

counterproposal to town steering my power

make a list of 2 players from which i choose

that way scum can't both kill me and fake a message if i target them
that way scum can't kill my target and continue to wifom the crap out of me
that way if scum is in the 2 they can't fake a message (unless the bracket is both scum but rip then)

or we could just lynch you.

Haven't decided yet.

I mean whats more convenient? You being alive after d1 cop claim or scum killing the person you investigated?

[Tchill13]

Icon
Datisi
Tchill, Klick
Uzi
A50

That's kind of where I'm at right now. Hopefully we're gonna get some content soon from the likes of Datisi, Uzi and A50.

Icon is your highest town read?

You lumped together me and flippy as scum d1 because of PoE. You're doing the same d2 with A50 and uzi atm.

Not exactly impressed with your breakdowns of players that have actually provided content.

[Tchill13]

OK because icon is "loyal" and not "weak" he's not even an investigative. Dude is NOT worth keeping around.

[Tchill13]

Datisi is scared to death to take a stance.

How tf am I a deep wolf? Is that what ppl call players their specifically paranoid about?

[Tchill13]

Also on Luca.

I wanted to lock town him. He was the FIRST person to suggest a "tchill flippynips" scum team. He highlighted that me and flippynips both fell short of a town read due to PoE. THEN he makes a case we're both scum together, which is convenient enough for him considering we're both scum leans due to PoE.

I seen this as "pre confirmation bias" that's how a town!Luca got to this scum team.

Now the key is it does not bode well for scum to suggest a scum team d1 when they don't have to. Tchill/flippynips loses traction when flippynips flips town.

Luca could have easily just pushed flippynips as scum.

So the fact that he was the FIRST to suggest that team and the fact that I can see how he talked himself into it with pre confirmation bias... I think he's town.

His play today I've not been a fan of. He's mostly ONLY developing reads on other players due to his interactions with them. Very scummy imo.

But I'm pretty confident about my initial read. I ultimately think Luca is town.

[Tchill13]

I am scared to death because the only player I was semi-sure in calling a TR ended up being the NK!

I don't know what's going on in this fucking game is my main point.

Alisae dismantled your wagon. That is the ONLY towny thing she should have done from your perspective.

She tunneled Luca then hammered flippy as she said the scum team was probably luca/LUV I believe.

I'm just not sure how Ali is you're only conf read, and town at that.

Why the hell am I scum here after the flippynips flip? I was the only person saying they were town. I just seen the guy from a different perspective. Do I get no credit for that? Or am I scum because there's no way I should have known he was town?

I believe you're not town reading me due to paranoia specifically. If that's not correct then have a dialog with me.

[Tchill13]

The longer A50/LUV doesn't post the more I think town wins this game if we lynch in this order:

A50/LUV/(icon or klick)

I'm willing to stand firm on my Luca read.

I'm willing to trust Ali on her datisi read after my town lean there.

[Tchill13]

I realize I didn't format the post well. From TL to SL, it would go Tchill-Luca-A50-LUV-Klick with Icon somewhere in the middle because I still wanna try to figure out if there's any worth in his NA.

I didn't say conf, I said semi-sure.

I do not think you're scum rn. I'm just saying that in this game, I am way less certain in both my SRs and my TRs.

OK that's understandable. I believe scum is in A50/LUV. first of all if they're BOTH scum... Unlikely, but they have no incentive to insert themselves. The active players are chasing each other in circles atm and nobody is certain or confident of anything.

If ONE of them are scum, then there's still no reason to insert themself AS LONG AS they're scum buddy isn't in danger.

Now this icon debacle is a DREAM for the scum team especially if icon is town and the team is in (A50/LUV/KLICK) those 3 have not been pressured AT ALL this game. Tomorrow is Lylo on a mislynch and we have 3 slots coasting. THAT is why you don't feel good about any reads datisi.

Now I have 3 active players and 3 inactive players. The odds of both scum being in either group exclusively is slim. If so I'd lean A50/LUV. Not because I have no idea what's going on but because I can reasonably come up with ways to TR datisi/Luca/Icon specifically. Icon being the weakest.

If one scum is in each group (more likely) I'd lean (A50/LUV) /Icon.

If icon is scum there's no reason their buddy would insert themselves into the conversation regardless. He would then have to a take a stance on his buddies claim which he'd like to avoid at all cost.

[Tchill13]

@Luca I got a few things wrong and I'm not following the game... That hurts man. That hurts... It's actually a staple of my play. I do this all the time. Extremely annoying ik but this is my first game back in a year.

STOP TRYING TO SIT ON THE FENCE ON MY SLOT. EITHER SCUM READ ME OR TOWN READ ME. TAKE A STANCE.

you're most in depth breakdowns come from interactions you have with others. Regardless of whether not you do the WHOLE iso or not.

You were very quick to lean town on icon after his claim. A claim that involves: claiming cop d1 and not dying. Sending a note to the player icon believes most likely to die if they're town. (this action DOES NOT determine Alisae's alignment btw)

And the way I'm forming my, endgame here. I have no way to push you out of the blue. I obviously believe scum is in (A50/LUV/Icon/klick)

Hell, I'm going great lengths to town clear you. I NEED 2 townies I can trust in. Alisae is a good player. She scum read you hard. I have to have a reason to disagree with her, a town Alisae, while also having a reason to agree with her on datisi.

[Tchill13]

I mean look what I'm stuck with atm.

Datisi is not confident in her reads.

Luca only hard town reads icon, is very fence sitty on everyone else.

Klicks ONLY involvement worth noting is pressing icon about his claim.

A50 is MIA.

LUV is MIA.

My only sure town read in Flippynips died.

Alisae I was going to semi tunnel... And I would have been wrong to do so.

This is NOT great working conditions for someone who'd like to oh I don't know maybe LYNCH SCUM...

[Tchill13]

I left out the guy that did the shit fake claim lololol...

@MOD can we please get some prods.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: almost50

[Tchill13]

Your icon read is because you don't think scum would claim cop d1. Then you just chalk It up to that and go along.

You don't sit on it too much at all.

Why, do you trust me the least? Idc what stances you take as long as you take them. Whether they benefit me or not doesn't matter.

[Tchill13]

You're a player that takes every little detail into account. I can see it in your breakdowns. That's fantastic, I love the effort, but I don't play that way and we're gonna bump heads because I'm not exactly the type to stay on top of every little detail.

I can't tell you how many times I've open voted someone on d3 that died n1.

I always have the general idea of what I'm doing but the details such as names and other things do tend to get away from me.

[Tchill13]

Ooh. Why is luv in not lynch territory?

[Tchill13]

Shame. Should probably just lynch you then.

[Tchill13]

The one thing giving me reservations about Icon being scum is that there are enough people who gave such little indication of Icon's claim yesterday that there might be a scumteam out there that just completely missed it.

Doubt it was missed. This site is quite quirky when it comes to famous folk aka Alisae.

IF icon is town. Scum were scared icon would be protected so they killed Alisae. Hell, they might have wanted to kill Alisae anyways due to her fame.

[Tchill13]

So Billy is just town because of tone huh?

[Tchill13]

A50, at the moment I'm between you/Icon/Luca as likely scum, and you're mostly on the list because nothing your slot has done has given me any reason to think it's town.

This is good. So what for think about my town case of Luca? Where you puts me and flippy as scum due to poe. He then talks himself into a flippy/tchill scum team.

I don't see why he'd suggest a scum team when he could just push flippy and be fine.

I also don't know how much credit to give him on THIS (the main reason I TR him) because he's still leaning scum on me. He trusts me the least atm and I'm still not sure why.

I think my argument for town Luca would hold more weight if he had opened the day TR'ing me.

Yes its convenient my lock towing of Luca depends on him TR'ing me. If you keep my point in mind though I think it's understandable why I believe he should have opened the day TR'ing me.

He still scum reads me. I'm not sure how to react to that in terms of what scum would do here after pushing a team and one of them flips town. So they go ahead and continue to push the other as scum? Then why even mention the pairing as a team?

If I KNEW icon was town then Luca is probably my next bet at scum among the active slots.

Klick has managed to obtain a TR from me.

[Tchill13]

Where Luca puts me. Not you.

[Tchill13]

OK that's fine. I really do apologize for not staying on top of everything, ik that's frustrating. I just wanted to know exactly where I stood with you.

I need 2 town reads I'm confident in by the end of the day. It's hard to get 1 atm.

[Tchill13]

Shame. Should probably just lynch you then.

I'm not gonna fight it back all that hard. I am totally lost and can't say one player has more equity to be scum over another in this game state, and if we're/I'm resigned to the loss then it doesn't really matter whether I get lynched. I still would rather try lynching someone else just in case we are lucky and we hit scum though.

What an odd time to take such a defeated tone. I understand that you may not have a clue what's up but you haven't even tried to discern much at all. Why not? If you're town you realize that alone is hurting other town players in a game where people are begging to be able to read players better.

I'm very much looking forward to your catch up and seeing if you can see a thing or two I have my eye on atm but I don't want to discuss rn.

[Tchill13]

I feel that datisi is town, I do not know that.

I’m still not understanding why you think Datisi is town.

Why do you think datisi is scum?

Are you giving Alisae any credit at all for her reads?

[Tchill13]

Well Alisae probably wasn't correct about everything.

I have more to judge when it comes to Luca. I thought my reasoning behind town Luca was fine.

I'm not gonna 100 percent blindly follow Ali but I'm not gonna ignore her altogether also.

[Tchill13]

I mean I don't want you sheeping anyone. I want you sorting because I have absolutely no idea what your alignment is. So if you could just do things I'd be happy.

[Tchill13]

I don't believe we should mass claim given a protective may still be out there.

[Tchill13]

A50 why do you assume I'm constantly mislynched early based off one game? That doesn't happen terribly often I don't think?

[Tchill13]

Its very odd to me that ppl are very cut and dry on icon. They're not even hesitating on that slot much at all.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Lil uzi Vert

He seems like he's saying a lot but he's not actually saying much at all after you read through it.

[Tchill13]

But hey let's not pressure uzi AT ALL because Billy passed some basic "test" and looked towny.

[Tchill13]

We can continue this discussion post game but you literally only mentioned one game I played the whole d1 and got lynched lol.

I don't use alts. Ever. You'll never see me as an Alt.

[Tchill13]

A50, Luca, icon has the strongest scum reads is something I'd agree with.

He's pushing hard for icon to be lynched. Scums best case scenario if icon is town is for him to be in lylo and push him to be the lynch. His slot will have the most questions regarding it.

Icon WILL NOT be night killed tonight by scum if he isn't lynched and is town.

Icon can't even clear people. He's not an investigative. If he can I'm missing that point entirely.

IF klick were to be scum then I'd feel good about LUV being scum with him. That's not something I'm willing to bet the game on rn however.

[Tchill13]

And if someone says icon can find scum based on someone's inability to read his note...

That means I have to TRUST icon. A player that fake claimed for no reason other than to manipulate Alisae, ONE PLAYER, early...

I have absolutely no reason to trust icon.

[Tchill13]

We let LUV and datisi interact a bit more. Then I'll get to my proposition.

[Tchill13]

The more datisi just lurks the scummier she's getting.

[Tchill13]

TR'ing luca at the time.

I believe my reasoning on tr luca makes sense but his play today, and overall, leans scum. I'm solely TR'ing luca because he pushed me and flippy as scum d1. Of course that may not be a great reason to TR him.

[Tchill13]

thats a good point.

I'd have to trust a cop who lived through 2 night phases in lylo.

[Tchill13]

At the beginning of day one you were the only player that was playing in a manner that wasn't crazy imo.

You have progressively gotten worse as the game went on.

I'm trying to give time to let other people participate but...

[Tchill13]

VOTE: iconeum

Dude was on every wagon that reached L-1.

Dude claimed cop when he didn't have to. Some say scum wouldn't claim dop d1. Well I say scum also wouldn't be on every L-1 wagon unless he's just that aggressive... He could be.

Alisae's last read was a luca/Icon scum team.

He used his action on the player most likely to be killed if town.

If icon is still alive next day phase he will automatically be my lynch. I'm not gonna risk scum skating by on a fake claim to a victory like that. That's on town if scum win by, fake claiming cop d1.

[Tchill13]

Haha. Looks like I'm the only one here OK with assuming responsibility.

Or playing at all for that matter.

You can easily replace out if you feel the game is over already or don't intend to play in lylo.

[Tchill13]

I belive that is L-1 too. Any quick hammer is a scum claim

Somebody quick hammer. I'll hard tr you in lylo.

[Tchill13]

Why would I be wrong? And if there's enough reason for you to believe I maybe wrong why are you voting the only claimed PR as we might be heading into lylo?

[Tchill13]

I'll tell you rn if icon flips town and you're still on the board A50 your primary suspect number one

[Tchill13]

Dude you have no idea what's going on this game and that's literally the only thing you've been consistently vocal about the entire game.

Why is icon you're strongest tr?

You started out fine and I agreed with what you were pushing early d1. As lore reads and pushes have been made I've disagreed with you more and more.

More effort does not equal better

Early datisi lurked. Billy I thought was TRYING to be ignorant. You seemed like one of the only candidates that I'd be able to work with. You've consistently slid in a direction opposite of that.

You had me and flippy as scum by POE. you then made a scum team of me and flippy to back up your POE reads.

I was CORRECT about flippy. That gets no consideration whatsoever. You haven't even discussed my credibility when it comes to my correct read on flippy. Maybe at least consider my opinion a little more strongly than you did d1 UNLESS you have an explanation as to why I was correct about flippy but shouldn't be given any credit on that read.

You're literally willing to let icon walk to lylo and WHY? You KNOW scum will keep him alive if he's actually town to cause confusion.

You're the ONLY person that strongly TRs icon I believe.

If icon is scum I'm coming for you.

[Tchill13]

Yes Luca is my go to lylo lynch that wins me the game when A50 and LUV haven't even participated.

Get the hell out of here dude. The game doesn't revolve around you.

Why would I set you up as a lynch when datisi, A50 and LUV haven't even played hardly at all?

Nobody hard tr's anyone. Nobody was voting together until the recent icon wagon.

But YES I'm hanging my win on YOU in lylo. Town is so discombobulated atm I could win the game in much easier ways than that if I were scum.

[Tchill13]

I just said if icon flips town it's A50.

If he flips scum it's you.

You don't read as much as I do.

There's a great chance this game is just active town chasing active town.

But we can't lynch datisi/LUV and A50 before endgame.

I refuse to be part of a game that let's a claim like icons get to endgame.

And nobody knows shit when it comes to this game dude. I'm just saying you definitely don't know shit just like I definitely don't know shit. I knew flippy wasn't scum though. I'm sure your tchill scum read will be right. 2nd times the charm.

[Tchill13]

UNVOTE:

OK I'm down for mass claim. Klick is making sense.

@icon. Idc if you're VLA or not. You made a fucking terrible, anti town, selfish egotistical play just because Alisae was in the game.

Luca is never gonna stop pushing me. That's fine.

I'm just locking in icon/Luca/klick as town for the rest of this day phase.

Idc if I'm wrong anymore. That fear is the only thing keeping me from locking you 3 anyways.

I've never went back and forth in a single game on 2 slots like I have Luca and icon but my gut tells me they're town.

My head tells me they're extremely frustrating and I hope they're scum but that's almost never the case here.

Town are always more frustrating than scum.

I'd like A50 then LUV to be the first 2 claims.

[Tchill13]

Luca clearly did some weird shit d1 I don't think scum would do.

Icon clearly did some weird shit d1 I don't think scum would do.

FLIPPYNIPS clearly did some weird shit day one I don't think scum would do.

Let's just keep that ball rolling and see how far it goes I guess.

[Tchill13]

Uzi is going before me.

A50/uzi/you/me/klick would be my preferred order.

[Tchill13]

To turn this into a pissing contest or not...

Idk yet.

[Tchill13]

We could just lynch obv scum luv. Dude hasn't done a thing.

And Billy being hard tr is so weak it hurts.

[Tchill13]

You're next buddy.

[Tchill13]

Luv/luca/me.

[Tchill13]

Oh Idk... You could be wrong about one of the players that are active. Like you were about flippy.

I've played pretty shit honestly. It comes from frustration more so than anything else. Lot of misreps. Like I said Luca icon was alis last scum team when it was Luca luv.

All I'm saying is when town is this confused it's usually due to active town chasing active town.

I'd bet the game 1 scum is in A50/LUV.

Then 1 scum in probably datisi/klick.

That is my 100 percent unbiased read of the game.

Any other shit I've given out has had ample amounts of frustration in it.

Icon isn't gonna claim cop d1.

Luca isn't gonna push a scum TEAM d1 when he could have just pushed flippy

(obviously this is from my perspective)

Datisi cooouuuld be scum here. There's scum motivation in laying back, letting others do the work and approaching afterwards.

Klick cooouuuld be scum here, but that read is mainly due to his lack of activity compared to others. Not his Content. I like his content.

It goes


Icon

Luca (by a smidgen)
Klick
Datisi

LUV

A50

That's it. I'm done flip flopping. I'm actually almost done caring at all because of the lack of activity. Luv responded to the prod with like one post lol. What a joke.

A50 came in with some appeal to emotion defeated attitude. That's why I'd lynch him first.

But I'd bet the game that scum was in A50/LUV.

Sorry for the frustration and the attitude at times. What Icon did is really why I left the site for a year. 1st game back and it's happening again. Pointless lies.

The only thing as frustrating as that is ppl who don't play and that's obviously happening as well.

Lots of frustration that seeped into my game play. Anyway those are my completely 100 percent objective gut/logic reads.