Open 80 - Double Day Mafia (Game Over!)

[forbiddanlight]

Nothing like a pressure vote to start the day off. Might be a bit fast paced for this forum...but I'll vote

voodoo

until they show up.

[forbiddanlight]

Yeah, that's kinda odd. Still waiting for the random person I chose to speak up

And also, I want to see tiny white text reposted in epic proportions as stated in the rules.

[/quote]

[forbiddanlight]

Note, that could have gone better if I hadn't failed my tags .

Yeah, well done with that...

VOTECOUNT

Gimbo - 3 (armlx, Corinthian, dcorbe)
Joubert - 1 (ShadowGirl)
Firestarter - 1 (LaptopGun)
dcorbe - 1 (Gimbo)
CF Riot - 1 (SpyreX)
forbiddanlight - 1 (Firestarter)

Not Voting - Joubert, killa seven, Lquiz, forbiddanlight, CF Riot, Voodo, Manito, Bogre

16 alive, 9 to lynch.

Expect a count at the top of each page.

-Mod

[forbiddanlight]

Nothing like a pressure vote to start the day off. Might be a bit fast paced for this forum...but I'll vote

voodoo

until they show up.

Ah, sorry about that. I guess I had to bold the vote part too.

vote voodoo

[forbiddanlight]

So, wow, how is it that I end up voting for what appears to be the only person who hasn't posted yet? (I could be wrong) Um...I know these games are a lot slower than I'm used to but there has to be some reason here :S.

[forbiddanlight]

Ok!

*darkens room, putting on an intensely bright light in CF's face*

What...is your name?

What..is your favorite color?!

And...what is the airspeed...of an unladen swallow!?!?


Alright, alright, getting serious, I actually agree slightly with gimbo that the "good townie" approach is somewhat suspicious, but I wouldn't put at much credence in a comment like that D1 so much as other days. However, I do want to see what Gimbo asks, if anything.

[forbiddanlight]

Ok, part of it is getting used to a different forum. In the other forums I play in, a lot of random voting starts with calling out known inactives. When they show up, you vote another inactive. Now, I'm not sure how inactive is measured on these forums, but it's been at least 3 days, if not longer since the game started. I think I'm probably still thinking far too fast for this forum, but hope to slow down enough to keep up, so to speak. The point of that statement was to say "Hi, show up, dammit, so I can figure out something else to do". It wasn't PRECISELY a random vote, as it was focused on a group of people, the ones who hadn't spoken up by the time I posted. I'm just surprised that Voodoo still hasn't posted in what feels like forever to me. I understand the feeling I'm posting just to post, but to be honest, I was trying to hopefully spur this guy into talking eventually.

[forbiddanlight]

Yeah, understandable. That was phrased weird anyway. I meant I understood why people are feeling I'm doing that. But anyway, how often is D1 not a mislynch anyway? Someone's gonna get boned here. We can only hope it's scum.

[forbiddanlight]

Works for me. Different playstyles here than I'm used to. So, fine.

retract vote from voodo

. Now...I really have no idea who to vote. I will put out there that while it's no where near clearage, I am leaning more town on gimbo and Bogre for avoiding jumping on me with votes for what seemed like posting for the sake of posting, instead pointing out the error and letting others draw their conclusions. I am sure a mislynch on me would be easy because I'm still finding my way. They avoided that option, giving me a chance to defend myself. Now maybe this is typical in this forum, but that's odd for scum where I play because usually if they can push a mislynch without seeming very out of line, they will. I'm still not sure where to vote right now, because no one seems to be really scummy, if at all scummy. So for now, I'm not voting, but will when I feel someone is worth it.

[forbiddanlight]

I was kinda afraid that would happen. At this point, I'm beginning to not really feel this game. I

vote forbiddanlight

. I of course know I'm town, but I'm really not helping the town that much right now. If something or someone comes up that makes me change my mind, I will switch off myself, but for now, I'm fine dying today.

[forbiddanlight]

The only reason I'd hold off a vote on him at this point is that I can't see a newbie to the forum pulling a gambit like that.

Looks more like frustrated townie.

Her, by the way. And I stand by my vote. I'm currently the scummiest looking person out there. Hence that dictates my vote.

[forbiddanlight]

No we don't, as far as I can tell. I realize what I'm doing.

[forbiddanlight]

And yes, I know that a fool is a person who's goal in the game is to get lynched, and thusly win.

[forbiddanlight]

Is it? I'd rather see a few more opinions before I go to far with that logic.

[forbiddanlight]

I soft claimed? Actually, no, I wasn't implying I had a role at all. Since it was clearly a colossal failure I'll explain my reasoning. I wanted to test a tactic. Vote myself under the pretense of giving up, and see if any scum took the bait of. It backfired, causing people to think I was more town but frustrated, stupid, misguided, or all of the above. However, my little experiment did reveal a few interesting facts about killa seven. I think an

FoS Killa Seven

is a good idea here. He definitely gave a more scummy read than the rest of you in response to what I did. I apologize for not continuing the tatic longer, but it didn't seem to be getting anywhere.

[forbiddanlight]

Oh yeah,

Unvote forbiddanlight

[forbiddanlight]

Well, I personally think that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard today. Have the words Occam's Razor ever been spoken to you? While I was self voting with most people not thinking I was executing some stupid plan, they all were pretty sure I was town, but misguided. If I were scum, that'd be perfect, throw a few woe is me posts here and there, and see how the day goes. However, by revealing the plan, I of course cast doubt on myself, but I chose to do so since it made more sense to do so when it became clear that none of the scum seemed stupid enough to jump into it except with the possible exception of Killa Seven, who I think I will actually be voting.

vote Killa Seven

Seriously, there are easier ways to attract over agressive townies that don't involve as much chance of my death. I gambled, and have yet to see if I won. And we don't lie? If a lie catches scum, I think it's warranted. The whole game is about lying and subterfuge. As town, you lie less, but you still lie regardless. I mean, are you telling me that when directly asked, no one has ever lied about a town aligned role? (as an example, of course). Town does NOT equal saint. It equals someone who is determined to catch scum through any means possible.

[forbiddanlight]

sarnath'ed?

[forbiddanlight]

Ah, ok, so basically ninja'd in most other forums. Thanks for the clarification.

[forbiddanlight]

I soft claimed? Actually, no, I wasn't implying I had a role at all. Since it was clearly a colossal failure I'll explain my reasoning. I wanted to test a tactic. Vote myself under the pretense of giving up, and see if any scum took the bait of. It backfired, causing people to think I was more town but frustrated, stupid, misguided, or all of the above. However, my little experiment did reveal a few interesting facts about killa seven. I think an

FoS Killa Seven

is a good idea here. He definitely gave a more scummy read than the rest of you in response to what I did. I apologize for not continuing the tatic longer, but it didn't seem to be getting anywhere.

This actually makes me feel pretty sketchy about you.

Truth. Now you try and make an excuse for poor play? That is anti-town. Townies accept their mistakes and move on, not try and lie to come up with reasons. I -seriously- doubt you were self-voting as a tactic.

Well, doubt what you will. I'm sticking by it cause it's true. That was my intent in doing that, and it failed. I'm not going to lie about that part, since there is no point. The only point in lying about why I was self voting when I actually did it was to execute the plan. I mean, the only thing you have is my word, and in this game you don't trust anyone's words (except your scumbuddies if you have them). So, it's immaterial whether you doubt if I had an actual plan or not. I know that that was my plan, and I'm sticking to it with my vote on Killa seven for pushing my action.

[forbiddanlight]

Tell me, have you ever heard of a series called Spies?

[forbiddanlight]

Spies was a very intensive version of mafia, having gone through 5 seasons. I participated in the fifth. To boot, I was scum. Now, you want pressure? Try handling not one thread, but a FORUM dedicated to this game, special AIM names specifically for the game (to prevent meta reads and such. Everyone goes in fresh), and basically and order to run wild? Lynch/Night Kill cycles of approximately 5 days, with 33 players in this case (though a couple special events prevented this from taking forever, such as a rapidfire lynching round that had 5 lynches all told), constant involvement due to the AIM factor, and more information to process then is really humanly possible. Add this to the fact that the spies (the mafia) were put into groups that didn't know each other and slowly met each other as the game went on, finally meeting everyone by the 6th lynch/NK cycle. Now, I handled that pressure, though I did die rather early because of a few mistakes I made (it was my first time being scum), but even if death I was strategizing. I am not a quitter, nor easily given to pressure. I realize that much of this post is probably unnecessary, and people will say I'm posting just to post, but I am PERSONALLY insulted when you say I am a quitter unable to handle pressure.

Addressing the actual meat of how I'm supposedly lying about me coming up with this plan, I'm not, to put it simply. I actually thought I was being clever, and am now being informed I wasn't. My mistake. My vote still stands because it wouldn't surprise me if you did accidentally or intentionally fall into the trap. If the people want a lynch em both, I'm willing to settle for that, since there is a high liklihood one of us is scum.

[forbiddanlight]

Please do. And I knew people would argue that. I was just pissed at being told I am a quitter. I got emotional, it happens. I honestly think that you are too quick to think both of us are town. I personally believe one of us is scum, and that's where my vote stands, since I know my alignment.

[forbiddanlight]

I've asserted I'm town several times. I was rather under the impression no matter what I said someone would make a case for it. Null tell. Nice try though.

[forbiddanlight]

I actually did state I've played mafia before around here somewhere, just not mafia here, which is slightly different.

[forbiddanlight]

As for the first question, it was me getting emotional, because I'm under a bit of RL stress, and tend to be moody sometimes, and dislike being told I'm a quitter who cracks under pressure. As for your other question, my only vote intention was inactives because that's usually how I played D1 in other games. After that, I took a step back, looked at the game, kinda didn't feel anything that stuck out, so tried to MAKE something that stuck out to see what results I got. I'm not OMGUSing K7, I actually think he might be scum and actually fell into my trap, and is trying to play it off. I SUPPOSE it might be possible he's overzealous town, but intuitively, I don't like it. I REALLY don't like it, hence my vote. And yeah, I knew she was referring to the jester, which would make sense if my goal were to get lynched to vote myself and try to seem scummy. But that's not the case, I'm just not having a good D1 .

[forbiddanlight]

Only if I'm right. If I am wrong, then the trap was incredibly stupid and will set the town back. However, I'm willing to bet on being right. Hence why I'm voting killa seven. If I'm wrong, we can still recover, since it IS D1. If I'm right though, we only stand to gain by having caught scum. Therefore, I see it as an overall positive action for the town.

[forbiddanlight]

from what your saying, first your saying i was having a bad day so i voted my self, then your saying you had a plan all along. to me it seems like you really wanted to quit and voted yourself and then later retracted and pretended it was all a master plan.

Way to convolute things killer. I said I had a bad day to your comment about me being a quitter. If I wanted to quit, I'd ask for a replacement. It actually WAS a plan, whether you believe me or not. And if I end up lynched, I would like "It was a plan, dammit" placed on my gravestone, considering that's what I've been saying all day.

[forbiddanlight]

ok, let's play

Covering my bolded points:
1.) Why say you look scummy instead of doing something about it if you are town?

That was still in the plan phase, trying to seem like I honestly wanted to die

2.) You say to attract over agrssive TOWNIES. I think this is a scumslip.

Context. The context was I was supposedly trying to get over agressive townies. I was pointing out there are lots easier ways to do this. Call it a slip if you like. You're wrong

3.a) Why mention this? It just stands out oddly.
3.b) Pushing your action? I thought the point WAS for you to find scum.

Just tongue in cheek implying my attacker might be scum . Wasn't meant in any serious light. As for b, that's what I meant, he pushed the action by falling in the trap as possible scum

4.a) Why, in the name of zeus, would he intentionally fall into this trap? The only way he could do it intentioanlly is if he KNEW it was a trap..which points to you being scum with him.
4.b) Why not just say you think he's scum instead of implying one of you is for this?

As for intentionally falling into a trap, if you think something is a trap, you can intentionally fall into it. You don't have to KNOW it's a trap. As for WHY someone would do that? Easy, they are scum and think that by attacking the very notion it was a trap after "falling" into it, they get an easy town lynch...OH WAIT! That's what's happening! As for the high liklihood part, that was also context of a lynch em both. From someone else's POV, both of us really don't look good (or at least at the time). I've heard cases on both of us these last few pages.

5.) Again, Why not just say you think he's scum.

As for that, it was phrasing. It sounded more dramatic to say "one of us is scum". I still guarantee if I had said "I know I'm town, and Killa is scum to me", I would have gotten crap for that. Null tell.

6.) Of course you're going to assert you're town. Why bring it up?

Once again, context. Gimbo was trying to say I was saying one of us is scum rather than I'm town he's scum in another "scumslip". I had already asserted I was town, there was no point in doing it again, and again, I liked the dramatic sound of the way I phrased it.

At this point, why not use the heat some? Setup a gambit where maybe you get to coast along AND even if you're hung you put suspicion on someone else. If Killer is town, like I'm thinking, then it hurts the scum losing a player but almost guarantees a mislynch in the future.

This is STUPID! No scum is worth one regular townie D1 from the scum's point of view. Seriously, if I WERE scum, and Killa were townie, his death would be WELL worth mine. If perhaps there were roles this game, I'd give you this point, but it's mostly vanilla. This is just bad logic.

Now, I'll deal with the other accusations, though I think they are all pretty similar

P.S. what really bothers me about forbid is that she tried to play the oh-poor-me-i'm-a-noob in the beginning, leading me to think that she is mostly likely a noob-townie, but halfway thru, now she's telling us its a plan, so basically she was screwing with town the whole first part of D1

As SpyreX pointed out, I never SAID I was a noobie. I implied several times I played elsewhere, just not here. I also never said that relating to my plan. It was merely the idea that an unknown player votes herself, and sees who jumps on it trying to catch scum. I'd like to think it worked, but even if Killa IS scum I'm not likely to live to see it.



So, does anyone ELSE have accusations? That's my defense up there, by the way. I don't think I can really say anymore than that is what it is? I agree I've played a relatively scummy game so far. I also think I've caught a scum, and they've just done VERY well at reversing that between my stupidity and they or their buddy's manipulations. I reserve an I told you so for when Killa flips scum. I also would like you to at LEAST consider killa when I flip town.

[forbiddanlight]

While your defense is logical Forbiddan, playing that way, especially for someone claiming to be experienced from other games either in or out of these forums, is as has already been said, extremely erratic. I guess I'm still not convinced that your motives are entirely clean...you've played in a way that gives us all good reason to suspect you (hell, you even say yourself that you've been playing scummy) - but you just don't lie and manipulate like that when you're town - it just doesn't make sense... My vote still stands for now...I'm still not convinced of innocence.

That's all understandable. I tend to be a bit odd for the first couple days. This was just a really bad odd this time. I understand keeping your vote where it is...really, all I have left is the truth, which is what I'm sticking to now.

You realize that the same logic you're trying to use in portion 2 would apply to portion 1. IF K7 was scum (which, although I am leaning heavily towards town could be), why would he put himself in a position where he would get 1 whole townie before he got lynched? Why not let a townie start this show and then move on.

Didn't notice that, I suppose you have a point. Then my logic for using the word intentionally was bad. Sorry about that

In fact, lets look at this as if I was your scum partner:
You gave yourself some heat, there's no power roles to check you out for sure so you are going to probably be a day 1 lynch. Setup this gambit with a townie. I am going to attack you, just enough, so that when you flip scum I can stay under the radar and coast along letting townies kill each other. Of course, even though you ARE scum, some people are going to sill wonder about K7 and you bussing each other to clear one. So, you've given me some cred and a good target a little later.

I guess that plan might work out. Except I'll flip town. If anything, the only scum benefit is that killa will look good regardless just because of how bad I look. I really can't refute this idea. Hell, I may have to use that sometime.

If he's scum AND you aren't I'll put your I told you so in my sig. Wink

Good, I'll expect it.

[forbiddanlight]

Actually, the intentionally scummy part...wasn't intentional. That was the big flaw which pretty much required me to abandon it. It was the self vote that was the plan. Right now, I still feel like K7 is scum. So, that's where my vote is.

[forbiddanlight]

I love how you just manipulated what I said to mean something completely different. I'm lying? Well what the fuck do you think YOU'RE doing!? The intentional part was me acting like I was quitting. I was NOT intentionally trying to look scummy, and when it became apparent I WAS looking scummy, the plan had to be abandoned. Right now, I'm at the full truth, and

FoS Firestarter

for using a bullshit justification by intentionally misreading everything I say to make me look more scum. I'm still with K7 on my vote, but if I magically live through this day, I'm going to be watching you like a damned hawk, Firestarter.

[forbiddanlight]

Well, whatever. I had a plan, it failed, and you all will lynch a townie over it. Hope when I flip you all decide to take a better look at K7. Or lose. That might be entertaining, but that's just me being vindictive after getting rather pissed off at a rather annoying series of life events. Have fun lynching townies guys.

[forbiddanlight]

Ok. My feelings? Killa is scum and I screwed up monumentally in trying to use the slight amount of light on me to catch scum, because no one believes he is. Firestarter isn't looking good either since he's actually basically taking things I say out of context to justify my lynch, where as most of you have actually stuck to facts at least in voting me. Corinthian seems to be doing a similar thing, but I feel less that he's scum and more that that is how he tends to attack people in game. I favor town on Corinthian. Unfortunately, I can't really help my play style, which tends to be erratic early on but comes together as the game goes on.

Also, at this stage, I'm pretty much convinced I'm going to die part by mafia manipulation, a BIG part because of my play, and finally, because we've reached the point where self fufilling prophecy will override everything I say. No matter what I do, it's going to look scummy now, because you all are sold on me being scum. I can only hope the next half of the day is more fruitful for you guys...yanno, like actually catching scum.

[forbiddanlight]

You REALLY are making things look worse than they are. I still believe you are intentionally doing this, not that you HAVE to. I'm lying was clearly rhetorical, and right now I'm at the full truth was...OMG, the full truth. I pretty much have nothing to lie about at this point. The only lying I did was in the context of my plan, and since that's been revealed, everything I've been saying from there is the truth.

[forbiddanlight]

You should dislike it. You are helping the scum reach their goal of killing all the townies with a mislynch D1.0. So, dislike it all you like. I'm townie, I know it, and no one believes me. I've posted my attempt at defence, no one liked that. You all are dead set on me being scum. Please facepalm when I flip townie. And when killa flips scum, I wanna see that sig .

[forbiddanlight]

Ok, first, I can't fine AfE in the wiki, so can you tell me what that means? And second, alright, I'll try to give you my reads. I've done it a couple times but you were right, those were in a very OMGUS context.


killa seven - "Don't vote yourself and hunt scum" then "vote:forbiddanlight". Trying to "Call my bluff". Yet for some reason, you believe HE had a plan after he got called out on bad play, but you think I'M just reaching. Even if he's attacking me, that's scummy behavior. More of the same throughout this whole issue. He is where my vote is, of course.

Firestarter - Doesn't see anything warranting an FoS on either me OR Killa!? We both were reasonably scummy at that point. Further justification by "not wanting to throw FoS's around". An FoS is not a vote. It runs very little danger while getting your thoughts out there. I don't like this.THEN he misinterprets EVERYTHING I say to make the wagon on me look even more desirable? Hell, I'm half tempted to switch my vote here now. I realize it seems OMGUS, but seriously, take a look at how he's attacking me. So, he's second most scummy to me.

CF Riot- Votes K7, but says I'm making myself scummier and scummier by each post. So switch vote to me, or explain why K7 is still scummier, beyond what you've already pointed out. Third Scummiest, actually, but it's slightly weak, but stronger than the other reads below this


dcorbe - ignores the early stages of my self vote plan, and doesn't weigh in on the current debate now. But, hasn't posted anything around here. It's mostly the fact that he says something completely unrelated to the self vote thing, as if he's purposely trying to avoid being drawn in. Again, weak, but my fourth most scummiest read


Manito - Too agreeable with what everyone else says. I don't like that. Buuut...I really don't have anything else on him. I'll put him at fifth scummiest.

LaptopGun - No weigh in on the killa vs. forbiddan thing. He did the whole "something odd" with the random votes, but is no where to be found after that. This is my WEAKEST scum read but I still feel he could be scum. Fifth most scummiest read.


ShadowGirl -Also not weighing in, but I think she said she had IRL troubles. I want to hear what she has to say soon. Not even scummy, just I wanna hear what she has to say.

I think that covers everyone who caught my attention. Bogre just seems to be the type that will hardline to force a defense so he can examine it. Corinthian makes me feel slightly uneasy, but it feels like he's trying for find inconsistancies, much like a police officer would. Gimbo seems to be a bit too forgiving, but hey, I'll take what I can get. SpyreX, I rather liked his analysis post, as well as Joubert's. Speaking of which, I want a follow up on Joubert's inquisition. In fact, I like analysis posts in general because it gets a lot of thoughts out there and can shed light on inconsistancies. And, I have nothing so far on you, FL, except that you genuinely want to keep an open mind and let me defend myself. I of course see this as a plus. So, that's what you wanted, I hope it helps when people realize I'm telling the truth, whether by my lynch or an improvement in my play.

.

[forbiddanlight]

And what does that have to do with your absence? Am I missing something here?

[forbiddanlight]

Alright. I'm really interested in seeing what you have to say. There's a lot of odd around for you to take flights of fancy with .

[forbiddanlight]

I've addressed that, FL. I didn't WANT to look scummy. I just fucked up and did look scummy in the process, hence abandoning the plan since I was only going to get townies on me after that. Killa however not only was drawn in, but the WAY he voted seemed scummy. Upon analyzing it now, we both did look scummy, so my plan was even more of an epic failure. And now, here we are .

[forbiddanlight]

Yeah, nice spin Firestarter. Bogre and Corinthian have both attacked me a lot. K7 isn't even attacking me anymore. Quite frankly, ANY accusations I make are going to make it look like I'm attacking someone attacking me because guess where the evidence is? In how people attack me!

[forbiddanlight]

You say in your last post (quoted at the top of this post) that Bogre & Corinthian are attacking you, yet in your synopsis post above, you havent given either a special one liner, like the rest, yet you seem to be saying that they are attacking you more than Killa!!
I find that very strange indeed....

So, wait, I'm scum for supposedly only OMGUSing people...but then, when I say that some of my attackers are town, that's evidence for me being scum too? I'm...not sure I follow, Firestarter.

And for the Killa mention, you have him at the top of your list on the last page, yet your now saying he isn't attacking you any more???
I think thats because he hasn't posted since your synopsis post... and you only posted that today!!!! (today, being where I am located)

I phrased that badly. He's no longer actively attacking me, though he was attacking me, hence why I said that. To be honest, he seems to just throw in the occasional "Yeah, you look scummy" and doesn't even try to back it up as much as everyone else has been backing their votes. I still think he's pretty much definite scum, even though that's possibly my own falling to self fulfilling prophecy. Really, thinking on it...I actually feel evidentially better about a

unvote, vote Firestarter

than I do about Killa. I feel emotionally that Killa is scum though, as well as somewhat evidentially with the fact he hasn't seemed to back himself up much, if at all. So, that's where I stand.

[forbiddanlight]

One problem with that theory Fire. I'm gonna flip town. And once AGAIN you twist my words

And Ive checked back through K7's recent posts, and I dont see him throwing votes around, his last few posts were aimed at you, like most other players.

I never SAID he was throwing votes around, what I said what he was directing a lot of the same "you look scummy" at me. And about my vote, both of you are likely scum in my eyes, it's just that I honestly feel the evidence supports voting you better than the evidence supports killa.

[forbiddanlight]

I would very much like a concise post from you based on your recent change of votes from Killa to me....

Don't be an idiot. I've been saying why the whole time. You twist my words to make the case look worse on me. You are obviously attempting to manipulate this into a lynch. I've only said that and cited examples in my past 5 or so posts! As for what Killa's doing?

lol i figured youd cop out and say, "i was baiting scum" ive seen this done before, your not fooling me. dont play the poor me im under pressure, vote = myself i dont want to play anymore then try to turn me into scum for voting a quiter who cant handle pressure.

from what your saying, first your saying i was having a bad day so i voted my self, then your saying you had a plan all along. to me it seems like you really wanted to quit and voted yourself and then later retracted and pretended it was all a master plan.

(reiterating the same thing for the most part, and others had said it already)

Ok, there were 3 posts from him after my whole plan, buuuut, the third one is just mentioning something in reference to what I said. I screwed up thinking he said the same thing more than twice. Honestly, when you are being attacked by everyone, you sometimes screw up your counts. Either way, there's even more the fact I still find him scummy even though he hasn't recently attacked me. And he's definate scum, sure. But there's no chance I'll pull a lynch on him. You making an utter ass of yourself by twisting every single thing I say to a scum motivation is a lynchable offense. There's a DIFFERENCE between presenting facts in a manner that is relatively unbiased and drawing a scum tell from it (like pretty much most of my other attackers), and presenting fallacies by twisting sentences, taking them out of context, and all over trying to make a case look worse to push the lynch faster so no one looks elsewhere. Nice try, but I'm PRETTY sure on you too, not as sure as I am on Killa, but you've definitely given your share of scumminess.

[forbiddanlight]

Really? I thought the above was pretty concise. Let me spell it out. You are twisting my words, and are denying it. Thusly, I see an evidential case on you. Hence my vote. What more do you want?

[forbiddanlight]

I apologize for calling you an utter ass and an idiot, however. That was uncalled for.

[forbiddanlight]

As for why I reacted so badly? Well, I AM being lynched here, and I AM a townie...sooo, ya know, I kinda am trying to catch scum. Scum have more reason to twist words to make a case better than townies do.

[forbiddanlight]

For once I agree with you Firestarter. A step back would be wise. I might very well be being unfair to Firestarter because I know what I mean, and seeing it misconstrued rather annoys me. Now, I am by no means saying Firestarter has CONVINCED me that he wasn't trying to twist my words, but for now, I'll

Unvote Firestarter, FoS:Firestarter, FoS: Killa Seven[/b (if I haven't already)]. I'm not going to revote killa yet either, since I think I've trapped myself into a line of though, which is a bad idea for scumhunting. You end up just seeing everything as more "evidence" to confirm your belief and ignore actual evidence.

As for your post, I think you were twisting words AFTER you mentioned the alternative. I was fine with the idea that I might be trying to draw in an overaggressive townie. It makes sense to think that, since to be fair, given the scumminess of my posts. What I was against was how everything I said seemed to have a Firestarter response taking what I say, making it mean something completely different, to bolster the case on me. So, I'm going to do an open minded reread (which I should have done awhile ago but rather wanted to be right so I convinced myself I was right)

[forbiddanlight]

Ok, my analysis, also

unvote Firestarter, FoS Firestarter, FoS Killa Seven

(the tag didn't take)


armlx: At page two, seems to have expected a couple of responses, re LTG and CF Riot regarding the wagons. Points out my post is scummy. Points out K7 as scummy for voting me with a caution that makes him seem like he thinks I'm town. Points out dcorbe is way behind. Argues with K7 about voting me. Feels really bad about me with my "I had a plan" post. Brings up LAL about my plan, which most people do think is a lie...got sarnath'ed bottom of page 6 about how I could have coasted as scum with the self vote on me. Armix states that Firestarter puts too much importance in his vote. Says it's an appeal to emotion when I claim I'm town. Votes forbiddanlight. Claims erratic play is the sign of a liar. Armix points out a lot of my defense as "You are wrong b/c I am town". I guess it could be construed that way. I don't think so, but yeah. Argues that lynching a bad town player is not the best move. States rarely voting on FL 2's part is only helpful as scum. Says common sense trumps gut unless gut has logic.

Joubert: By page 2, has a vote on dcorbe for "obvious reasons". Comes back Page 7, having NEVER explained those obvious reasons, with a big analysis post on the game. Also questions me. Responds to LTG's responses to his questions. Dislikes LTG's responses for acting odd.

killa seven - Page 3 states a dislike of random voting, and thusly doesn't do it. Gets confused by the meta talking about a cop. Votes me with a statement implying he thinks I'm town. Claims it was a bluff to see if I "really wanted to play this game". This is about as bad as my claim it was a plan, I personally think. Argues pity is for the weak. Claims that he knew I'd "cop out" and claim I was baiting scum. Twists what I was saying to show an "inconsistancy".

FaerieLord -replaces in, questions me about the game, and who I find scummy, after analyzing key posts. I might just be a bad player, he seems to think. Pulls a Corinthian on me with his question about how my plan was to look scummy. Also apparently rarely votes.

SpyreX - analyzes constantly it seems. Seems rather against what LTG did, buut doesn't vote him. Also calls out my vote mention. Needs a reread to figure out what scum vibes he feels. Page 5 also points out that you can catch scum D1. Also points out the fallacy of voting inactives. Points out my post is scummy. Self vote confuses him. Wonders if there is a jester. Points out dcorbe is way behind. FoS' killer for voting me while thinking I'm town. Wants to reread again claiming someone has scum vibes. (didn't he say that earlier?). Posts that Firestarter's FoS is kinda OMGUS and not even committal. Thinks that me and K7 are likely both town and the scum are laughing at this exchange. Does a reread. SpyreX also dislikes my wording, as well as my certainty. MEgaposts analysis, votes me claiming that you can't WIFOM yourself out of a good lead. Claims my case is a lot worse than K7s, also points out holes in my logic. Wants my thoughts on who is scum. Finds FL 2 non-commital, doesn't see my lynch as solid and wants to hear other cases.

forbiddanlight - Page 1&2, Voted an inactive, keeps bringing it up...yeah. Page four, more bellyaching about inactive. Fluff post on page 4. Page four begins to look a little bad for me since my posts feel like posting for the sake of posting, and also include a fallacy that scum usually isn't caught D1. Page 5 involves a scummy post that dismisses Gimbo and Bogre's attacks on me, not committing to anyone being scum, and overall just posting for the sake of posting. To be fair, I kinda agree with that assessment, though I didn't mean to do that. Votes self at this point, saying she gives up. Claims to look scummy. Claims to know what a Jester is. Claims to have had this clever plan, which was ruined by the fact she looks scummy. (wow, I never realized how ridiculous that looked until I reread that. I mean, it was true, but I understand others POVs a bit better now). Tries to explain her reasoning, votes K7, points out she could have coasted with her self vote with people assuming she was misguided townie rather than dangerously execute a plan. Posts some long tirade about spies and how she can handle pressure (to be honest, this was also rather pointless, and brought on by emotion) I claim that I've asserted I'm town several times. Also that no matter what I said someone would call it out. Claims to have asserted she's played mafia before (those posts have been cited). Answers Joubert's questions. Claims intuition on K7, claims RL for emotionalness. Claims the trap is for the good of the town. Corrects Killa. Answers posts from SpyreX and Gimbo. Answers Spyrex's posts. Right now the defense is pretty much "I had a plan, it failed, K7 is scum, so you shouldn't vote me". Posts thoughts on who she thinks is scum, as well as appealing to emotion with such comments as "Hope you find scum next half of the day". Claims Firestarter is twisting her posts. Smartass comment to Bogre about how they are lynching town. Posts who she thinks is scum, in descending order. Claims another spin job on her words by firestarter, votes firestarter.

Gimbo - defends himself against Page 1 wagon, votes Dcorbe on an ongoing game joke. Points out CF Riot might be overeager to look townie. Points out my post is scummy, cuts me slack for being "new". States town should never be fine dying. Encourages the game as one of lying...though apparently LAL is rather alive and well. Continues advising me that scumminess != scum all the time. Tells K7 to get off my case, because I basically soft claimed (?? Did we ever get an explanation for this?) Gimbo dislikes my wording "One of us is scum". Tries to say I pulled a noob tell. Votes me, claiming I was pretending to be a poor noob. Unvotes, claims my play is erratic (it is :S).

Firestarter - Unvotes me Page Six after a Page one random vote on me. Doesn't think either me or Killa's actions warrant and FoS. That seems rather non committal :S. Feels possibly both K7 and I are townie at this point, won't let FoS' or votes be dictated by Corinthian, citing his post count. FoS' CFR for what he said about the FoS. Doesn't really feel the need to vote anyone at this point. The first word twist about how I say "I didn't intentionally look scummy", and he makes it say "Oh, so you WERE planning on quitting?" Continuing into a diatribe about how bad I look, how K7 is likely town, voting me. Claims my plan was a lie, and not thought out (I agree with the latter, but it was a plan). Another word twist, where I say "I'm lying?" In a sarcastic way to point out his hypocracy, and then uses the "I'm at the full truth" comment to imply I'm contradicting myself. Claims forbiddanlight rates scumminess based on the level of attack on her. Changes what Corinthian meant to him saying I'm town, not what he actually said of it not making me town. Claims he's not twisting words, but providing alternatives.

CF Riot - Page 1 dislike of random voting, page 2 advising Gimbo because of his wagon reaction. Also feels from previous experience that even a weak case needs credence (say one based on random votes), but not random voting is not scummy. I guess that works :S. Also wants to "appear" townie. Gimbo is right that that's a little odd. Is willing to have the spotlight on him because he figures it'll clear him. Votes K7 (for voting someone that he thought was town), FoS' Firestarter (for being non committal with even FoS'), doesn't say much about me at all. Finds me scummy, K7 scummier.

Corinthian - does that "cop interview" style questioning about random voting. Corrects my assumption that D1 is a crap shoot. Plays both sides of the issue stating that killa's vote was stupid, but agrees with his basic idea. Comes back in Page 7 to start questioning me. Asking about my plan. Continues pushing me, with a vote this time. Agrees with forbiddan's posts relating to word twisting by firestarter, claims firestarter might be distancing.

LaptopGun - Questions the wagon and counter wagon, gets called out by armix for pointing this out in random voting phase, page 3 justifies by a meta read that should imply he is given to flights of fancy with odd things :S. Further explains what conclusions he can draw from the random voting. Says SpyreX is voice of reason. Meta comments at the bottom of page 4. Unvotes, finally addressing the issue at hand page 6, finds Killa's actions scummy. Points out that both me and Killa were likely gambling for something. Comes back Page 9 with quotes from another game that just ended to justify his absence...oook. Then thinks forbiddanlight is scummy, also states it's her reactions, NOT her initial self vote. Answers Joubert.

ShadowGirl - Page 2 mostly jokes around, fluff posts something about her joke...Comes in to say her access has been bad. OK...

dcorbe - seems interested in meta reads, is on the Gimbo wagon, FoS's Shadowgirl for joking and such. To be honest, I can see this slightly. Jumps in talking about a...meta discussion? Erm...way past that I think. But a good way to ignore the current drama...noted.

Manito - "I agree with this post" behavior, FoS' Killa. Another "I agree with this post"...but proposes the theory both K7 and I are scum and that my plan was to get an over aggressive townie, and this plan failed so K7 puts pressure on my so I can back out...meh, too risky in my eyes, but ok. More "I agree with this post" page 7. Votes me, answers Spyrex, agrees with SpyreX. Agrees my play is erratic, and that my play doesn't seem very town.

Bogre- Jumps in Page 3 with a vote on LTG, claiming he is trying to look town with weak reasoning. Understandable, and actually makes me feel better about my later view that he finds scum by aggressively attacking them with votes rather than sitting around with discussion. Jackals them, rather. Moves on to me for "putting onus on my vote". Relents the attack slight because I'm a newbie. Tells me to unvote and hunt scum. Accuses me of lying with my plan, agreeing with armix. Hasn't voted me as of page 7, but is definitely leaning my way, though initial thoughts were frustrated townie. Dislikes a comment I made about how the town was lynching townies.

Voodo - IS NOT AROUND! Waiting on replacement for him

Argh, I'm done, all of the rest is page 10. I have to go to bed. Tomorrow, I'll reread this analysis and make my vote. I meant to do it tonight but this took too long.

ALL IN ALL YOU'RE JUST A...

forbiddanlight - 5 (killa seven, armlx, SpyreX, Manito, Corinthian)
killa seven - 1 (CF Riot)
LaptopGun - 1 (Bogre)
Gimbo - 1 (dcorbe)
Joubert - 1 (ShadowGirl)

Not Voting - FaerieLord, Voodo, LaptopGun, Joubert, Gimbo, Firestarter, forbiddanlight

18 alive, 9 to lynch.

-Mod

[forbiddanlight]

There were going to be opinions...but I had to go to bed. I'm about to EBWOP my opinions in now. I'm sorry about that.

[forbiddanlight]

armlx: At page two, seems to have expected a couple of responses, re LTG and CF Riot regarding the wagons. Points out my post is scummy. Points out K7 as scummy for voting me with a caution that makes him seem like he thinks I'm town. Points out dcorbe is way behind. Argues with K7 about voting me. Feels really bad about me with my "I had a plan" post. Brings up LAL about my plan, which most people do think is a lie...got sarnath'ed bottom of page 6 about how I could have coasted as scum with the self vote on me. Armix states that Firestarter puts too much importance in his vote. Says it's an appeal to emotion when I claim I'm town. Votes forbiddanlight. Claims erratic play is the sign of a liar. Armix points out a lot of my defense as "You are wrong b/c I am town". I guess it could be construed that way. I don't think so, but yeah. Argues that lynching a bad town player is not the best move. States rarely voting on FL 2's part is only helpful as scum. Says common sense trumps gut unless gut has logic.

Feelings? I'm leaning town. He's played a fairly consistent game, and a relatively observant one. It's only D1, but I'll be surprised if he's scum.

Joubert: By page 2, has a vote on dcorbe for "obvious reasons". Comes back Page 7, having NEVER explained those obvious reasons, with a big analysis post on the game. Also questions me. Responds to LTG's responses to his questions. Dislikes LTG's responses for acting odd.

Feelings: I really don't like his disappearance, and I'm not sure if he explained that. Also, the obvious reasons during the random vote phase never came to light. But, his actions upon his return seemed reasonably townie, if a bit too open minded, possibly giving me too much room. However, since I'm town, that just makes me think he tends to be slow to vote. Sooo...I'll say town on this one.

killa seven - Page 3 states a dislike of random voting, and thusly doesn't do it. Gets confused by the meta talking about a cop. Votes me with a statement implying he thinks I'm town. Claims it was a bluff to see if I "really wanted to play this game". This is about as bad as my claim it was a plan, I personally think. Argues pity is for the weak. Claims that he knew I'd "cop out" and claim I was baiting scum. Twists what I was saying to show an "inconsistancy".

Feelings: Ah yes, K7. I don't like what I see. I mean, I tried rereading with an open mind...but I really don't like what I see. His only saving grace is I've managed to look scummier somehow. I'm not going to say definite scum like I was, but I am definitely leaning scummy on him.

FaerieLord -replaces in, questions me about the game, and who I find scummy, after analyzing key posts. I might just be a bad player, he seems to think. Pulls a Corinthian on me with his question about how my plan was to look scummy. Also apparently rarely votes.

Feelings: There isn't a lot here considering he replaced in page 9. Also decided to give me a chance to defend myself. Also asked me a couple of questions I already answered. The rarely votes thing bugs me, a lot. Also the reluctance to reveal his other suspicions until the K7/FL debate ran through. I want to say town, but I don't like what he's done so far. I wouldn't say he's scum yet, but I'm VERY slightly leaning that way.

SpyreX - analyzes constantly it seems. Seems rather against what LTG did, buut doesn't vote him. Also calls out my vote mention. Needs a reread to figure out what scum vibes he feels. Page 5 also points out that you can catch scum D1. Also points out the fallacy of voting inactives. Points out my post is scummy. Self vote confuses him. Wonders if there is a jester. Points out dcorbe is way behind. FoS' killer for voting me while thinking I'm town. Wants to reread again claiming someone has scum vibes. (didn't he say that earlier?). Posts that Firestarter's FoS is kinda OMGUS and not even committal. Thinks that me and K7 are likely both town and the scum are laughing at this exchange. Does a reread. SpyreX also dislikes my wording, as well as my certainty. MEgaposts analysis, votes me claiming that you can't WIFOM yourself out of a good lead. Claims my case is a lot worse than K7s, also points out holes in my logic. Wants my thoughts on who is scum. Finds FL 2 non-commital, doesn't see my lynch as solid and wants to hear other cases.

(by the way, let me quote the FL isn't a solid lynch comment...and then realize I completely misread it. Sorry Spyrex, I misread this:

Ok... what?

If you've got cases, share them.
Have opinions. Town needs voices, not lemmings.

If you dont think the lynch on Forbid is solid, stand up and go for it.

This post reeks so much of noncommittal I dont even know where to begin.

Relevant portion bolded. Please strike that "Doesn't think the forbiddan lynch is solid" due to misread.

Feelings: Well, there is definitely something to the more you post, the more likely you are to slip up if you are scum. SpyreX seems to have been playing as if he has nothing to slip up about, posting relatively large posts, challenging a lot of views. I like it, and am leaning town.

forbiddanlight - Page 1&2, Voted an inactive, keeps bringing it up...yeah. Page four, more bellyaching about inactive. Fluff post on page 4. Page four begins to look a little bad for me since my posts feel like posting for the sake of posting, and also include a fallacy that scum usually isn't caught D1. Page 5 involves a scummy post that dismisses Gimbo and Bogre's attacks on me, not committing to anyone being scum, and overall just posting for the sake of posting. To be fair, I kinda agree with that assessment, though I didn't mean to do that. Votes self at this point, saying she gives up. Claims to look scummy. Claims to know what a Jester is. Claims to have had this clever plan, which was ruined by the fact she looks scummy. (wow, I never realized how ridiculous that looked until I reread that. I mean, it was true, but I understand others POVs a bit better now). Tries to explain her reasoning, votes K7, points out she could have coasted with her self vote with people assuming she was misguided townie rather than dangerously execute a plan. Posts some long tirade about spies and how she can handle pressure (to be honest, this was also rather pointless, and brought on by emotion) I claim that I've asserted I'm town several times. Also that no matter what I said someone would call it out. Claims to have asserted she's played mafia before (those posts have been cited). Answers Joubert's questions. Claims intuition on K7, claims RL for emotionalness. Claims the trap is for the good of the town. Corrects Killa. Answers posts from SpyreX and Gimbo. Answers Spyrex's posts. Right now the defense is pretty much "I had a plan, it failed, K7 is scum, so you shouldn't vote me". Posts thoughts on who she thinks is scum, as well as appealing to emotion with such comments as "Hope you find scum next half of the day". Claims Firestarter is twisting her posts. Smartass comment to Bogre about how they are lynching town. Posts who she thinks is scum, in descending order. Claims another spin job on her words by firestarter, votes firestarter.

Feelings: OMG what the hell was I doing this game? Seriously, rereading this, I'm not surprised I'm being voted. Hell, if I weren't me, I'd be voting me for this stuff. The only problem is the fact I am me and know I'm town. I screwed up the plan, yes. I got way too certain on Killa. In fact, the only thing I really see here is my observations on Firestarter, which could still be wrong. However, I kinda feel a couple of those posts really were a bit of messing with what I said on purpose. Ugh...the only reason I can say I'm town is because I have my role PM, because my actions this game sure as hell don't reflect it. I'm sorry about leading us this far into a mislynch, and I hope I can fix it before it happens.

Gimbo - defends himself against Page 1 wagon, votes Dcorbe on an ongoing game joke. Points out CF Riot might be overeager to look townie. Points out my post is scummy, cuts me slack for being "new". States town should never be fine dying. Encourages the game as one of lying...though apparently LAL is rather alive and well. Continues advising me that scumminess != scum all the time. Tells K7 to get off my case, because I basically soft claimed (?? Did we ever get an explanation for this?) Gimbo dislikes my wording "One of us is scum". Tries to say I pulled a noob tell. Votes me, claiming I was pretending to be a poor noob. Unvotes, claims my play is erratic (it is :S).

Feelings: I'm really not sure what to feel. I dislike that soft claim comment that never got explained. Not sure how I feel about being advised, because in a way that protects scum in some cases because they get encouraged to change their behavior, and thusly get away with it when they do...but I appreciate the advice as town, and it helps prevent mislynches. I perfectly understand the dislike of wording, and the erratic play. But...given what I've seen so far, I lean town.

Firestarter - Unvotes me Page Six after a Page one random vote on me. Doesn't think either me or Killa's actions warrant and FoS. That seems rather non committal :S. Feels possibly both K7 and I are townie at this point, won't let FoS' or votes be dictated by Corinthian, citing his post count. FoS' CFR for what he said about the FoS. Doesn't really feel the need to vote anyone at this point. The first word twist about how I say "I didn't intentionally look scummy", and he makes it say "Oh, so you WERE planning on quitting?" Continuing into a diatribe about how bad I look, how K7 is likely town, voting me. Claims my plan was a lie, and not thought out (I agree with the latter, but it was a plan). Another word twist, where I say "I'm lying?" In a sarcastic way to point out his hypocracy, and then uses the "I'm at the full truth" comment to imply I'm contradicting myself. Claims forbiddanlight rates scumminess based on the level of attack on her. Changes what Corinthian meant to him saying I'm town, not what he actually said of it not making me town. Claims he's not twisting words, but providing alternatives.

Feelings: No bones about it, I hate the percieved word twisting. I also dislike the early non committal ness...however, I'm open to him being right that both K7 and I are town, and thus no FoS should be used. But then again, you have to consider FoS is kinda a measure of scumminess (I think). Whereas scumminess does not always equal scum, if you have a lot of FoS, you are likely doing something wrong, whether you are town or scum. Especially given FoS isn't even a real vote, I think both K7 and I warranted an FoS at that time. It doesn't look good really, so I'm going to give a scummy read on it, with the provision that part of it is from bias due to what I saw as word twisting. If you take that out there's no real case.

CF Riot - Page 1 dislike of random voting, page 2 advising Gimbo because of his wagon reaction. Also feels from previous experience that even a weak case needs credence (say one based on random votes), but not random voting is not scummy. I guess that works :S. Also wants to "appear" townie. Gimbo is right that that's a little odd. Is willing to have the spotlight on him because he figures it'll clear him. Votes K7 (for voting someone that he thought was town), FoS' Firestarter (for being non committal with even FoS'), doesn't say much about me at all. Finds me scummy, K7 scummier.

Feelings: Ok, wants the spotlight on him, but that never got followed up on. It should have been. I think anything like that always needs to be called. I apologize for joking about it if that got the situation forgotten about. Don't like the appearing townie. Also the first to vote K7 (and only one other than me too), and FoS' Firestarter on the noncommittal ness. To be honest, what I dislike is that he didn't even really mention me at first til I started posting a lot of the stuff that got me in this mess. He focuses more on K7. In fact, if I were scum I'd say his voting pattern made him one of my partners. The trouble is I'm not scum...but I wonder...if I were to flip town, it might look slightly better for people voting in a similar pattern to me...something to consider. Also, I'd like to see him come back and weigh in on current events. In the end, I actually lean a little scum on this.

Corinthian - does that "cop interview" style questioning about random voting. Corrects my assumption that D1 is a crap shoot. Plays both sides of the issue stating that killa's vote was stupid, but agrees with his basic idea. Comes back in Page 7 to start questioning me. Asking about my plan. Continues pushing me, with a vote this time. Agrees with forbiddan's posts relating to word twisting by firestarter, claims firestarter might be distancing.

I like how he does things. The way he asks questions forces contradictions out in the open. The only trouble is it does a slight word twist every so often. I don't like that, but as long as one rectifies it, he seems to move on. I'm leaning town.

LaptopGun - Questions the wagon and counter wagon, gets called out by armix for pointing this out in random voting phase, page 3 justifies by a meta read that should imply he is given to flights of fancy with odd things :S. Further explains what conclusions he can draw from the random voting. Says SpyreX is voice of reason. Meta comments at the bottom of page 4. Unvotes, finally addressing the issue at hand page 6, finds Killa's actions scummy. Points out that both me and Killa were likely gambling for something. Comes back Page 9 with quotes from another game that just ended to justify his absence...oook. Then thinks forbiddanlight is scummy, also states it's her reactions, NOT her initial self vote. Answers Joubert.

I really don't like someone absent for so much, also missing any commentary on the initial start of the FL/K7 debate. The posting of the other game seemed a little irrelevant, but armix said he's cool, so I'll take his word for it. The thing I don't like is the way he phrases things seems a bit like someone trying to sound like their actively analyzing, but really kinda fluffing it. I'm not sure what to make of it, but I also lean slightly scum here.

ShadowGirl - Page 2 mostly jokes around, fluff posts something about her joke...Comes in to say her access has been bad. OK...

Feelings: Not enough Shadowgirl. I want to see some SUBSTANCE. Otherwise, I can't make a read.

dcorbe - seems interested in meta reads, is on the Gimbo wagon, FoS's Shadowgirl for joking and such. To be honest, I can see this slightly. Jumps in talking about a...meta discussion? Erm...way past that I think. But a good way to ignore the current drama...noted.

I don't like how he missed the initial discussion about the K7/FL thing by mentioning a meta discussion...and then hasn't appeared since. I think he's lurking...has anyone seen him post elsewhere? Either way, I'm leaning a little scummy here too...when a big thing like this happens, we need everyone's opinion.

Manito - "I agree with this post" behavior, FoS' Killa. Another "I agree with this post"...but proposes the theory both K7 and I are scum and that my plan was to get an over aggressive townie, and this plan failed so K7 puts pressure on my so I can back out...meh, too risky in my eyes, but ok. More "I agree with this post" page 7. Votes me, answers Spyrex, agrees with SpyreX. Agrees my play is erratic, and that my play doesn't seem very town.

Feelings: He agrees way too much. But he does have a few original thoughts (such as the K7/FL scum gambit theory). I'd like to see him agree less...he could be hiding. But, I have a slight town read on him, say 60:40 town:scum.

Bogre- Jumps in Page 3 with a vote on LTG, claiming he is trying to look town with weak reasoning. Understandable, and actually makes me feel better about my later view that he finds scum by aggressively attacking them with votes rather than sitting around with discussion. Jackals them, rather. Moves on to me for "putting onus on my vote". Relents the attack slight because I'm a newbie. Tells me to unvote and hunt scum. Accuses me of lying with my plan, agreeing with armix. Hasn't voted me as of page 7, but is definitely leaning my way, though initial thoughts were frustrated townie. Dislikes a comment I made about how the town was lynching townies.

Feelings: To be honest, he jackals. That's both a good way to hide as scum and a good way to catch scum. He hasn't voted me yet, which is odd given how much he seems to suspect me, but he could be one who is quick to attack but slow to vote. He seems to be slightly worried about mislynch...so I lean townie on this one.

Voodo - IS NOT AROUND! Waiting on replacement for him

Has been replaced by Knights, and I look forward to seeing his analysis. A fresh view always helps.

Alright, there we go, I actually got to post feelings this time.

[forbiddanlight]

Alright, to be honest, I really don't like what CF Riot did. Despite what I've looked like, he persists with killa. There's also that little tinfoil hat theory I had about looking similar to a townie to have the high ground the next day. I of course, reserve the right to change my mind, but for now,

vote CF Riot

. I'm sorry, but I don't see how you can vote K7 over me looking over my actions. I'm glad you didn't, but it does make me wary.

[forbiddanlight]

I don't know. It's just that after rereading everything I've said and everything Killa has said, I really don't like how he stuck with Killa. Now, should he come back with an explanation, and possibly a new take on things, then I'll probably get off him. But for now, I feel REALLY uneasy about CF, which seems weird, I know, but it kinda feels that way to me.

[forbiddanlight]

Well, you ARE wrong about forbid, but if I die, and it catches scum, it's fine. My thoughts are out there, that's one of the most important things a mislynchee can do. I can only hope you find the scum with the help of my analysis or something.

[forbiddanlight]

I'd do it, but I think the hammer might be someone to look at as well. So, anyway, here's the problem with your analysis...I didn't say anything about random votes. I didn't even get into that conversation about them. I ended up in a coversation about inactives, so I have no idea what you were reading. And to be honest, I'm admitting I look scummy. I screwed up horribly as a town player. My only saving grace is the fact we got a lot of discussion going, and that you are going to have a lot to discuss tomorrow when I flip town. So, I hope you catch scum soon. And if K7 is scum, SpyreX, you do owe me a sig .

[forbiddanlight]

They were talking about me, and armix sucks at gender pronouns.

[forbiddanlight]

Also, it's not a hammer yet. I only have 6 votes now. I need 9 to be lynched. I need 3 more votes...where are you getting your numbers, armix?

[forbiddanlight]

Explains it. Well, either way, I think pretty much everything is out there. If I'm going to die, I'm going to die. If I'm not going to die, then who is? Where is this discussion going?

[forbiddanlight]

Well, when I flip town we'll see whatcha say .

REMEMBER WHEN YOU CAME OVER TO MY HOUSE FOR DINNER?

forbiddanlight - 6 (killa seven, armlx, SpyreX, Manito, Corinthian, Knight of Cydonia)
killa seven - 1 (CF Riot)
LaptopGun - 1 (Bogre)
Gimbo - 1 (dcorbe)
Joubert - 1 (ShadowGirl)
CF Riot - 1 (forbiddanlight)

Not Voting - FaerieLord, LaptopGun, Joubert, Gimbo, Firestarter

16 alive, 9 to lynch.

-Mod

[forbiddanlight]

Now now, aren't policy lynches overall bad for the town? The last thing that you want to do when I flip is completely ignore any of the feelings I had. Even when I die, I guarantee my thoughts have caught something right.

[forbiddanlight]

But, the way he phrases it, he states my play makes me a good lynch as town or scum. As far as I can tell, not caring whether your target is town or scum because of bad play is a policy lynch. Now, he's perfectly fine voting me for my actions, I agree, but saying he'd be just as happy if I were lynched as town, then we get in iffy territory.

[forbiddanlight]

Which is why I don't worry as much about what he's saying. His vote is warranted, but I figured I'd point out the part where he's stating that he'd be happy to see me go even as town. That's NOT good, at all. But either way, I can't make much of it since my play has been horrid this game, so I just point it out so that it might be examined later.

[forbiddanlight]

Quite frankly, m'dear,

if you are town, I'd be almost as happy to see you go.

You're doing nothing by playing this way other than helping the Mafia.

Um...bolded part...your bolded part of my quote says exactly this...I think you are stretching.

[forbiddanlight]

Ah, L-1, and a new fight develops. I'm still dead, but that's probably going to end up noteworthy as well. Just saying .

[forbiddanlight]

Now now, no need for personal attacks, man with the completely unoriginal name after a relatively alright song that you probably first heard on Guitar Hero anyway.

[forbiddanlight]

Most retarded townie ever is what I was referring to. And really, I just felt like being a bitch in that last comment. I'm about to die, and there's nothing I can do about it. The least I can do is put what I've observed out there when (oh god, she's gonna say it again) I flip town.

[forbiddanlight]

Haven't you fregging noticed I've been fighting tooth and nail this whole game? What have the past freggin 6 pages been? I'm telling you the damned truth, I'm putting my suspicions out there. No one WANTS to believe me, and everyone dismisses my defenses. So you know, really, what's the point of expending the effort that no one will listen to, when I have other games going that I can actually do something in? You say I'm "giving up"...well maybe I wouldn't give up if you all weren't so damn close minded about the plan facet!

[forbiddanlight]

Well, I have an offer. If you guys want to start D1.5, I could hammer myself. However, I do want you all to consider everything I've said that was in actual analysis if I do this. I'm going to flip town, so there's no reason NOT to do this. It's just I figure you probably want to get past this relatively narrow K7/forbiddanlight thing soon. With my death that'll happen. I just want your word you'll consider the thoughts I put out there, even if you think I'm a "retarded townie"

[forbiddanlight]

Well, tell that to the other 8 people voting for me. Honestly, I think that people need to listen to what I said in my analysis. While they are turning deaf ears towards me, that's not gonna happen. If they continue to turn deaf ears towards it because I'm just a "retarded townie", then we still have made no progress and I die in vain. I'm bargaining by giving myself up for the sake of the town at least hearing my thoughts, and possibly reaching a conclusion that leads to scum lynched. That's the only real benefit I can see for my death and flip, so I'm willing to bring it on because I do want the town to win despite by bad play.

[forbiddanlight]

Well, what else can I say? The whole problem is that the attack on me is based off the it wasn't a plan thing and the fact that I accused someone of being scum for taking advantage of my self vote. The problem is overall the plan was a failure. I was hoping to see a bit more action, but no one was willing to touch it except killa. I disagree with a lot of what he said. I agree I shouldn't have said he was definitely scum, that was more me appealing to emotion to get him dead because I strongly believed it at the time. What I don't like is the fact that he really hasn't been around except for a few token posts as I pointed out.
Unfortunately, I'm not even sure WHAT to make of your current behavior firestarter. You seemed to be trying hard to twist my posts earlier, but now you are somewhat defending me. If you wanted to push my mislynch, you could hammer me now. I am feeling significantly less sure about your scumminess, which wasn't too sure already.
As for defense which I ended up getting off of, as I said, my only defense is insistance it was a plan, which no one buys. I mean, how can I prove it was a plan? I tried answering the other accusations on me in an earlier post. I think I've been very cooperative in answering questions people have asked me. I honestly have no idea what else I can say. Everyone is ignoring whatever defense I put up so certain that I wasn't planning anything and I'm trying to cover up bad play. So as I said to KoC, what's the point? I have no idea what you people want from me, so in the end, the only benefit I see from my death, as I said, is my flip, and the analysis I posted so far. If people don't agree with it, fine, but I still want to see people looking at it, considering it, pointing out where it's wrong if it is, pointing out where I have a point if I do have one. No one seems to have addressed it except in a perfunctory way.

I will admit I gave the scum a gift with my play this game. I did horribly because I was thrown off by a lot of factors. I'm trying to improve now, but I can only do so much. I at least, will not hammer myself til you've decided what you are going to do firestarter. But I'm pretty sure that you won't stop everyone. I'm likely dead soon. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a scum prepared to hammer me, because they don't even HAVE to jump on my wagon. There could be as little as one scum on my wagon, possibly none (though I doubt it). I actually trust most of the people on my wagon more than the people off it, as paradoxical as that seems.

This post meandered a lot, but I tried to seperate it into parts for easier reading. Whether it helps or not, I hope something happens to guide us in the right direction soon.

[forbiddanlight]

Haha, well, I'm not sure I'll have to. There are probably a couple players willing to do the favor for me. I've stated the terms for why I'd self hammer, if that's what you all want. If you don't, then I won't, and we'll see how long I last at L-1.

[forbiddanlight]

Ok, Im seeing a contradiction in this part of your post, you start it off with unfortunately, then end it with Im less scum in your eyes, can you clarify..

I hate being wrong, which is what I'm being led to believe. It's unfortunate in my eyes. Things are easier when they are clear cut .

The Fact remains that most people have posted thoughts on your exchange/plan with K7 already, what you should do now is look to where you think scum is, and try to build a case. Its also in towns interest to keep our townies alive, you (if town) arent doing yourself any good with a defeatist attitude.

Well, I've already stated who I thought looks scummy, but that's all kinda changed, and I have to do another reread...but not another super analysis post yet. I agree the defeatist attitude isn't good defence, but I do kinda feel hopeless since there really doesn't seem to be a way out.

Ok, first off, if I believed genuinly that you were scum after our exchange, I would not have removed my vote from you, it would still be there. If I see that I can put pressure on a player when they do look scummy from several posts, and you did look scummy after several posts, I will apply pressure to see ones reactions. To me, your reactions weren't absolutely brilliant, but they did not reek of scum either, regardless of some of the token posts that have been made in between, suggested.
BTW, Im not trying to stop players from voting you, Im merely asking for a thourough look through the posts that were made since the FL/K7 exchange flared up.

I can understand that. Well, at least SOMEONE realizes I'm trying, even if I'm not doing well. A thorough look at this is really the best I can ask for. If someone could do that and take me a little bit away from the L-1 thing, that'd be nice .

K7, since your around, any chance of some thoughts on FL now?
That pretty much goes for everyone else whos lurking/reading and not contributing.

Kinda noticed that myself. I don't like how his posts are more rhetoric than actual analysis. (Course, some may accuse me of that @_@)

[forbiddanlight]

So, that's how that is. The hammer. Interesting feeling. Enjoy D 1.5 after you see my flip.

Oh, and BAH, go townies.

[forbiddanlight]

Ah, so, the final result of the game I debuted in. Scum win. Wow, that kinda sucks. But, I've HOPEFULLY improved a bit from this...debacle, lol.

And guess Spyrex DOESN'T owe me an I told you so. FREAKING K7! WHY COULDN'T YOU BE SCUM.

[forbiddanlight]

Yeah, K7 gets LVP for me... but forbiddan, jesus, what a debut. Seriously.

Well, what can I say. But now I has a hatred for stupid gambits and like lynching people who try them .