Open 80 - Double Day Mafia (Game Over!)

Firestarter · Post Post #22 (isolation #0) » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:23 am

Gimbo wrote:fuck you dcorbe, your sorry ass is getting chopped in 607 and you take it out on me in this game.

corinthian and armlz, what the fuck?

Vote:dcorbe
because i hate fat businessmen

Ooooh.... Over reaction much????

VOTE: forbiddanlight

Interesting nick, obviously scum dont like the light, and hide in the shadows....

Firestarter · Post Post #53 (isolation #1) » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:07 am

LaptopGun wrote:Random voting certainly gives plenty of info and I'm always curious if voting isn't so random.

Really, then share what you've found so far, coz I must be missing it....

I don't read too much into the random voting tbh at the start, you can take from it what you will, but to make any clear assumptions at that point would be laughable.

In my only completed game Ive played so far, I made a link with random voters that seemed a bit odd....

It turned out only 1 was scum, and the other 2 were town.
Lesson learned for yours truly.

Firestarter · Post Post #132 (isolation #2) » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:47 am

Nah, Im not having that Killa.....

The fact that FL is applying pressure from herself early doors strikes me as a misguided townie, but only just.

While Im here...

UNVOTE

Firestarter · Post Post #137 (isolation #3) » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:55 am

forbiddanlight wrote:I soft claimed? Actually, no, I wasn't implying I had a role at all. Since it was clearly a colossal failure I'll explain my reasoning. I wanted to test a tactic. Vote myself under the pretense of giving up, and see if any scum took the bait of. It backfired, causing people to think I was more town but frustrated, stupid, misguided, or all of the above. However, my little experiment did reveal a few interesting facts about killa seven. I think an
FoS Killa Seven
is a good idea here. He definitely gave a more scummy read than the rest of you in response to what I did. I apologize for not continuing the tatic longer, but it didn't seem to be getting anywhere.

I agree that killa's actions could be considered scummy, but thats only on the pretense that you are indeed town...

The alternative to this, and its something thats 50:50 regardless of your ploy, is that you are scum trying to attract an over-aggressive townie.

I dont see enough here to warrant a Fos to either you or Killa here....

Firestarter · Post Post #152 (isolation #4) » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:11 am

CF Riot wrote:Firestarter who does deserve a FoS from you? Recapping what's gone on, I noticed you have only 4 posts, one being a joke vote. I don't agree with your theory on reads in the random phase, but that post really didn't have much significance either. That was some major action for day one going on between K7 and FL, and you don't have a vote OR a FoS?
FoS Firestarter

And unless Im mistaken, you have 8 posts, so....

I wont be pressured into throwing Fos's around, nor votes at this stage by you or anyone.
I will however, vote/fos when my suspicions heighten.
At this stage I prefer to see how this exchange draws out.

Yes, you could argue that both players in the recent episode were acting scummy in certain degrees, but acting scummy does not entirely add up to "being scum".
____________________________________________________________
Your post fos'ing me, however, makes interesting reading...
Do you get the scent of townie blood up for a D1 lynch???

The more conversation on D1 the better for town, theres no need to rush through a lynch CFR....

Firestarter · Post Post #154 (isolation #5) » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:31 am

Maybe I should, but the only way I can do that is to vote someone, and if Im to vote someone for the sake of voting someone, then I need to explain it....
I dont currently have an explanation for voting anyone, as the only exchange of note has been between K7 & FL, and Ive given my thoughts on that.

However, CF7 has heightened my suspicion somewhat with his nonsense pressure fos.

Not worthy of a vote at this junction, but certianly a

FoS: CF7

Firestarter · Post Post #170 (isolation #6) » Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:02 am

CF Riot wrote: Firestarter did you call me CF7?

Thats correct, I did, a typo on my behalf...

..for clarification,

FoS

CFR

Firestarter · Post Post #192 (isolation #7) » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:46 am

forbiddanlight wrote:
Actually, the intentionally scummy part...wasn't intentional.
That was the big flaw which pretty much required me to abandon it. It was the self vote that was the plan. Right now, I still feel like K7 is scum. So, that's where my vote is.

So now your saying you weren't being intentional?????

That would mean you were quitting the game, which is it???

Having read through the posts again at how this developed, I feel you were going to quit the game, and your self pity was obvious after you started to name yourself as the scummiest player. I think that when some questions were asked of you, you panicked, and bizzarely made yourself a good target for town at that point.
This was too rushed as far as plans go, and if you were indeed scumhunting, I'd imagine you would have held off until your "Plan" had more substance to it. You cannot be certain that Killa is scum, just because he wanted you out, he was calling your bluff, and Ive no reason to see it any differently atm
At this junction, you grasped the nearest thing to you, by stating it was a plan.. I dont buy this...
You have lied, stated that you would lie as town or scum, and lied some more.. This is NOT good for Town. Full Stop.

The more this conversation goes on, the more weaker your position is, I, at this point see Killa as town, only just, as what he did can be taken as scum hunting, thats the way I see it at the moment...

Im liking your wagon more & more and my vote is being placed here...

VOTE: Forbiddenlight

Firestarter · Post Post #198 (isolation #8) » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:32 am

forbiddanlight wrote:I love how you just manipulated what I said to mean something completely different. I'm lying? Well what the fuck do you think YOU'RE doing!? The intentional part was me acting like I was quitting. I was NOT intentionally trying to look scummy, and when it became apparent I WAS looking scummy, the plan had to be abandoned. Right now, I'm at the full truth, and
FoS Firestarter
for using a bullshit justification by intentionally misreading everything I say to make me look more scum. I'm still with K7 on my vote, but if I magically live through this day, I'm going to be watching you like a damned hawk, Firestarter.

Hang on.....

Ok, digested...

First of all, your coming across quite angry at the moment, and the basis of this game is analysing posts made by others, breaking them down, and trying to find what they stand for.

Of course you'll think my synopsis is bullshit, its you under the axe, but to say that I intentionally misinterpreted your words/posts is actually quite funny.....

Would you expect me to believe everything everyone says???

No, I would however, tend NOT to vote for someone who seems townish in their behaviour, or is a confirmed townie, or either with a solid case.....
You are NOT acting townish, a confirmed townie nor represent a solid case, so I hope you can see where Im going with this atm....

Plainly, you are the scummiest player right now, your posts have been very sketchy, and you'll have me believe that "your plan" was what it was....

Im sorry, but I can only go on with whats put in front of me, and tbh, its not good on your side. Jesus, youve even admitted yourself that you looked scummy, after the "plan" went awry.

AND, you posted the "well, one of us is scum" post, which I found slightly disturbing.. And now, your telling us that its only the truth you have on the table?????

forbiddanlight wrote:I love how you just manipulated what I said to mean something completely different. I'm lying?

Quite the contradiction, dont ya think? Above you ask the question,

Im Lying?

... directed at me, responding over previous posts...
Then you proceed to tell us your at

"Full truth!!!

forbiddanlight wrote:
Right now, I'm at the full truth

Firestarter · Post Post #227 (isolation #9) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:04 am

Welcome Faerie, but in this game your my FL 2...

FaerieLord wrote:53: Firestart (/) Please...pulling theories after one complete game...is bad!

Apologies, I cant help having only completed 1 game...

But I see why you would consider it bad I suppose...

FaerieLord wrote:I'm having trouble what to obey right now...

Common Sense or Gut.

Its very possible that FL1 is just playing "bad", and has landed in the shit. However, she has pointed to the fact that she has played Mafia before, elsewhere if Im not mistaken. So the possibilty of her playing as "bad game townie" isn't really washing with me, alot due to her defences she's offered, or lack of it. For the most part she has attacked the people who have attacked her most....
Killa first, as he attacked first..
Me, because I attacked next..
And other players on a decreasing scale based on

how much they have attacked her/not attacked her....

Pretty OMGUS if you ask me, and no base to her attacks otherwise.
_____________________________________________________________

On another note,
We have 2 FL's in game now, maybe address them a 1 & 2, based on who has been here longer, for clarification.

Firestarter · Post Post #229 (isolation #10) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:49 am

forbiddanlight wrote:Yeah, nice spin Firestarter. Bogre and Corinthian have both attacked me a lot. K7 isn't even attacking me anymore. Quite frankly, ANY accusations I make are going to make it look like I'm attacking someone attacking me because guess where the evidence is? In how people attack me!

Then point to the evidence, rather than saying "stop attacking me"....

Also, you keep calling me out for lying, when the fact is that altough you have said that it was a plan initially to uncover the scum, the alternative is the reverse.....
Scum trying to frame a townie....

Im not lying, like you keep saying I am, Im merely pointing to FACT....

And as a result of my alternative, youve gone pretty weak at the knees, and are blindly throwing accusations around, such as me lying....

forbiddanlight wrote:Ok, first, I can't fine AfE in the wiki, so can you tell me what that means? And second, alright, I'll try to give you my reads. I've done it a couple times but you were right, those were in a very OMGUS context.

killa seven - "Don't vote yourself and hunt scum" then "vote:forbiddanlight". Trying to "Call my bluff". Yet for some reason, you believe HE had a plan after he got called out on bad play, but you think I'M just reaching. Even if he's attacking me, that's scummy behavior. More of the same throughout this whole issue. He is where my vote is, of course.

Firestarter - Doesn't see anything warranting an FoS on either me OR Killa!? We both were reasonably scummy at that point. Further justification by "not wanting to throw FoS's around". An FoS is not a vote. It runs very little danger while getting your thoughts out there. I don't like this.THEN he misinterprets EVERYTHING I say to make the wagon on me look even more desirable? Hell, I'm half tempted to switch my vote here now. I realize it seems OMGUS, but seriously, take a look at how he's attacking me. So, he's second most scummy to me.

CF Riot- Votes K7, but says I'm making myself scummier and scummier by each post. So switch vote to me, or explain why K7 is still scummier, beyond what you've already pointed out. Third Scummiest, actually, but it's slightly weak, but stronger than the other reads below this

dcorbe - ignores the early stages of my self vote plan, and doesn't weigh in on the current debate now. But, hasn't posted anything around here. It's mostly the fact that he says something completely unrelated to the self vote thing, as if he's purposely trying to avoid being drawn in. Again, weak, but my fourth most scummiest read

Manito - Too agreeable with what everyone else says. I don't like that. Buuut...I really don't have anything else on him. I'll put him at fifth scummiest.

LaptopGun - No weigh in on the killa vs. forbiddan thing. He did the whole "something odd" with the random votes, but is no where to be found after that. This is my WEAKEST scum read but I still feel he could be scum. Fifth most scummiest read.

ShadowGirl -Also not weighing in, but I think she said she had IRL troubles. I want to hear what she has to say soon. Not even scummy, just I wanna hear what she has to say.

I think that covers everyone who caught my attention. Bogre just seems to be the type that will hardline to force a defense so he can examine it. Corinthian makes me feel slightly uneasy, but it feels like he's trying for find inconsistancies, much like a police officer would. Gimbo seems to be a bit too forgiving, but hey, I'll take what I can get. SpyreX, I rather liked his analysis post, as well as Joubert's. Speaking of which, I want a follow up on Joubert's inquisition. In fact, I like analysis posts in general because it gets a lot of thoughts out there and can shed light on inconsistancies. And, I have nothing so far on you, FL, except that you genuinely want to keep an open mind and let me defend myself. I of course see this as a plus. So, that's what you wanted, I hope it helps when people realize I'm telling the truth, whether by my lynch or an improvement in my play.

.

You say in your last post (quoted at the top of this post) that Bogre & Corinthian are attacking you, yet in your synopsis post above, you havent given either a special one liner, like the rest, yet you seem to be saying that they are attacking you more than Killa!!
I find that very strange indeed....

And for the Killa mention, you have him at the top of your list on the last page, yet your now saying he isn't attacking you any more???
I think thats because he hasn't posted since your synopsis post... and you only posted that today!!!! (today, being where I am located)

Im very comfortable where my vote lays right now.

Firestarter · Post Post #231 (isolation #11) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:02 am

Corinthian wrote:Agree with forbid on the last two posts.

She's right, I've sniped her arguments, but she repeatedly called me probable town.

starting to think there is something to her repeated accusations that firestarter is twisting her words.

Also, she's right that most of what people are talking about right now is her case and whether or not it's scummy.

Doesn't make her town, but does make it look like firestarter might be trying hard to distance himself.

So basically you think that FL1 is ok because she reckons your town??
And that I might be scum beacuse she thinks so also??
Dont be so naive....

BTW, what do you think Im trying to distance myself from per say???

___________________________________________________________________

May I also add that if we were to take posts the way that the posters wanted them to be percieved, we would get nowhere, and we'd be all thinking that everyone is Town....
So, FL using the word twist may seem clever, but that is not the case when I pointed to the Alternative of her ploy.... Which was her being scum trying to frame an over aggressive townie....
It is not lying, nor twisting words, as FL has so eloquently put it, it is however a possibilty that was 50:50 at the time of my posting it, was it not???
That ratio, to me, is fairly lopsided at her being scum now, after what has been posted by her since then....

If you want to argue the point that this is not a possibilty, and strengthened tenfold since it was initially suggested by FL1's posting style, then I would suggest again that you should stop being naive.

Firestarter · Post Post #233 (isolation #12) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:10 am

May I ask why you have placed your vote on me, rather than leaving it where you believe scum to be???

And Ive checked back through K7's recent posts, and I dont see him throwing votes around, his last few posts were aimed at you, like most other players.

It helps to quote posts....

Firestarter · Post Post #234 (isolation #13) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:15 am

forbiddanlight wrote: So, wait, I'm scum for supposedly only OMGUSing people...but then, when I say that some of my attackers are town, that's evidence for me being scum too? I'm...not sure I follow, Firestarter.

You saying that some of your attackers are not scum is full of WIFOM....
Again, there are alternatives to that, like them being fellow scum, them being town and leaving a breadcrumb for their lynch..

Do you follow now???

Firestarter · Post Post #236 (isolation #14) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:39 am

forbiddanlight wrote:I phrased that badly. He's no longer actively attacking me, though he was attacking me, hence why I said that. To be honest, he seems to just throw in the occasional "Yeah, you look scummy" and doesn't even try to back it up as much as everyone else has been backing their votes. I still think he's pretty much definite scum, even though that's possibly my own falling to self fulfilling prophecy. Really, thinking on it...I actually feel evidentially better about a
unvote, vote Firestarter
than I do about Killa. I feel emotionally that Killa is scum though, as well as somewhat evidentially with the fact he hasn't seemed to back himself up much, if at all. So, that's where I stand.

My choice of wording was wrong, you did not say vote....
But you did say he throws in the occasional "yeah" here & there...
Please, quote them for me, full posts...
But you have contradicted yourself something fierce in that post, first you say your

definite that Killa is scum

, then you move your vote to me...
Are you also definite about me being scum?

forbiddanlight wrote:And about my vote, both of you are likely scum in my eyes, it's just that I honestly feel the evidence supports voting you better than the evidence supports killa.

Firestarter wrote:
May I ask why you have placed your vote on me,
rather than leaving it where you believe scum to be???

I would very much like a concise post from you based on your recent change of votes from Killa to me....

And I wont settle for this again....

forbiddanlight wrote:I actually feel evidentially better about a
unvote, vote Firestarter
than I do about Killa. I feel emotionally that Killa is scum though, as well as somewhat evidentially with the fact he hasn't seemed to back himself up much, if at all. So, that's where I stand.

Firestarter · Post Post #238 (isolation #15) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:35 pm

Yeah, Ive given off scuminess by twisting your words..... ok...

See my last few posts if you need clarification as to what I actually was doing......
Giving alternatives.
The fact you have reacted so badly, imo, is the reason I think of you as scum.

BTW, lets not get personal here, Im pretty sure your no idiot, and I can assure you that I aint an idiot either....

Now, am I gonna get a concise post from you or not?
Its the 2nd time you have evaded my request...

Firestarter · Post Post #244 (isolation #16) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:23 pm

forbiddanlight wrote:I apologize for calling you an utter ass and an idiot, however. That was uncalled for.

Apology accepted.

forbiddanlight wrote:Really? I thought the above was pretty concise. Let me spell it out. You are twisting my words, and are denying it. Thusly, I see an evidential case on you. Hence my vote. What more do you want?

I think the below quote needs to be read again, its very relevant to whats going on here.

Firestarter wrote: May I also add that if we were to take posts the way that the posters wanted them to be percieved, we would get nowhere, and we'd be all thinking that everyone is Town....
So, FL using the word twist may seem clever, but that is not the case when I pointed to the Alternative of her ploy.... Which was her being scum trying to frame an over aggressive townie....
It is not lying, nor twisting words, as FL has so eloquently put it, it is however a possibilty that was 50:50 at the time of my posting it, was it not???

_____________________________________________________________

FL, please read my earlier post quoted above, and tell me what you make of it.

Now use this in relation to what has happened since then.

I am no more twisting your words than you would have yourself believe, and your continued shabby posting in reply does not help you.

However, your activity is fairly high, and the absence of most of the other players in this game has been noted.

If you are not scum, and its by no means clear cut at this moment based on your posts alone, then scum are watching this exchange rubbing their hands in anticipation of a mislynch.
This is another alternative town must consider here.

At this moment however, Im downgrading my vote,

UNVOTE

, to a

FoS

= FL

I would like to hear the rest of the players views here.

Firestarter · Post Post #247 (isolation #17) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:38 pm

Gimbo wrote:2 possibilities

1) forbid is a genius and she's doing a damn good job of scumhunting for town

2) forbid is screwing up town and taking it in the wrong direction

however, neither options are indications of her alignment. A scum could be either 1 or 2.

Therefore, we have two options

1) lynch forbid, to find out what the hell's going on and even if she's town and i rescind what i said be4 that a town should never be killed; if it helps town gain essential info. then it could be beneficial.

2) drop this whole case and from the discussion that's been made, everyone makes in-depth analysis unrelated to the whole forbid-K7 fiasco, which most likely isn't doing much.

any other ideas?

1. We cannot dismiss the possibility that Forbid is scum trying to entice an over-aggressive townie.

2. We cannot dismiss that both could be scum playing with a gambit.

3. Theres also the possibilty of both being town. And that Forbid just got it horribly wrong.

I would prefer if we discussed what has taken place in relation to the K7/Forbid case, and the recent exchange from Forbid & myself, side by side with any other discussions about other suspects.

Firestarter · Post Post #313 (isolation #18) » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:34 am

KoC, you may have been a bit harsh there
And Im personally not into the personal attck thingy, so that should stop as its going nowhere from 1st post onwards....
_______________________________________

FL, The whole basis of you being almost lynched at this time, is the exchange between you & K7. My problem was the extremely quick turnaround from Im quitting, to it was a plan.... If it was a plan, and this is a personal pov, I would want substantially more evidence that someone was scum, rather than just "He was the first to attack me, and therefore he must be scum" post. That has been the single biggest problem Ive had with you. Add this to the lots of posts saying, "It was a plan" and "What till I flip Town" does not help you at all.

However, I take the point on board that you have been actively responding to the posts from all and sundry regarding your allignment. Your activity level is quite high, and altough that alone does not remove suspicion, it has been taken into consideration, hence my removal of my vote from you.
And you commented on my leaving a FoS on you after I removed it, it was left there purely that I wanted to see you building cases, and trying for a proper defence....
Im not seeing that atm...

@ all players....
Im not convinced that FL is scum, Im more convinced shes played a bad game so far, and tbh, this wagon looks like a mislynch to me.... BUT...
Mislynch in the way that the reasons for lynching FL is not enough, imo.
Killa has hardly been around since voting FL, and other players seem content in sitting back, casting a vote with a token post, and let it go from there.

There is no need to rush a lynch through at this time, there is no deadline from what Im aware of (Does not go back to check for deadline). And discussion for a longer period is inherently better for town, we will simply gather more info to work with.

I will be going back through the pages this evening (Hopefully) and post some summaries on whats there.

I would ask all to refrain from hammering FL at this moment, that includes you FL, and take time to have a reread.

Firestarter · Post Post #317 (isolation #19) » Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:39 am

forbiddanlight wrote: Unfortunately, I'm not even sure WHAT to make of your current behavior firestarter. You seemed to be trying hard to twist my posts earlier, but now you are somewhat defending me. If you wanted to push my mislynch, you could hammer me now. I am feeling significantly less sure about your scumminess, which wasn't too sure already.

Ok, Im seeing a contradiction in this part of your post, you start it off with unfortunately, then end it with Im less scum in your eyes, can you clarify..

forbiddanlight wrote:So as I said to KoC, what's the point? I have no idea what you people want from me, so in the end, the only benefit I see from my death, as I said, is my flip, and the analysis I posted so far. If people don't agree with it, fine, but I still want to see people looking at it, considering it, pointing out where it's wrong if it is, pointing out where I have a point if I do have one. No one seems to have addressed it except in a perfunctory way.

The Fact remains that most people have posted thoughts on your exchange/plan with K7 already, what you should do now is look to where you think scum is, and try to build a case. Its also in towns interest to keep our townies alive, you (if town) arent doing yourself any good with a defeatist attitude.

forbiddanlight wrote:I at least, will not hammer myself til you've decided what you are going to do firestarter. But I'm pretty sure that you won't stop everyone. I'm likely dead soon. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a scum prepared to hammer me, because they don't even HAVE to jump on my wagon. There could be as little as one scum on my wagon, possibly none (though I doubt it). I actually trust most of the people on my wagon more than the people off it, as paradoxical as that seems.

Ok, first off, if I believed genuinly that you were scum after our exchange, I would not have removed my vote from you, it would still be there. If I see that I can put pressure on a player when they do look scummy from several posts, and you did look scummy after several posts, I will apply pressure to see ones reactions. To me, your reactions weren't absolutely brilliant, but they did not reek of scum either, regardless of some of the token posts that have been made in between, suggested.
BTW, Im not trying to stop players from voting you, Im merely asking for a thourough look through the posts that were made since the FL/K7 exchange flared up.

killa seven wrote:ive allready stated what i think of self voting if your town.
so dont self hammer, thanks. unless your scum

K7, since your around, any chance of some thoughts on FL now?
That pretty much goes for everyone else whos lurking/reading and not contributing.

Firestarter · Post Post #329 (isolation #20) » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:31 am

killa seven wrote:ive allready stated what i think of self voting if your town.
so dont self hammer, thanks. unless your scum

Gimbo wrote:Ok....curiosity is really getting the best of me and its not often that I get to hammer.

let's find out forbid, shall we?

saw, wrench, screwdriver and HAMMER!
Vote:forbiddanlight
, reveal yourself!

Gimbo wrote:shit

3 quotes that have my blood boiling.....

Killa, you come out of the woodwork just before FL is hammered, coincidence??? I dont know, but you were also called out by me in a previous post to that, me thinks lurking/reading was going on without as much as a comment on developments.

FoS: K7

Gimbo, your posts really reek of scum...
First you seem to give the reasoning that you were gonna hammer "because you never did it before" and then afterwards you say "shit".....

Thats Bollocks, and is scumbag play on so many levels. I mean, to come into thread after contributing hardly anything in a while, you lay a hammer down without as much as reason.....

You didn't add any reasoning after I asked for people not to hammer without having a reread, I'd have expected Scum to do what you did, and its exactly what I think you are, after your recent 2 posts.

VOTE: GIMBO

_____________________________________________________

Firestarter · Post Post #333 (isolation #21) » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:54 am

If your suggesting that Im pissed because

YOU

hammered before me, then I'd consider that laughable...

I could have hammered at some point today, but I didn't because I got town vibes from FL through our exchange. It might do you some to actually go back & check through that now.

However, and whether you do bother to back & check through, its too late to amend anything youve posted today.
Instead you opted for the hammer with a quite ridiculous reason...

Gimbo wrote:u're pissed cuz i was the hammer vote and fl is town, its not my fault! had she flip scum, you'd be thanking me rite now

On the contrary, if you had of posted sensible reasoning, and then hammered that would be quite different to what you actually did.
I doubt it very much we'd be having this discussion right now.

As for claiming its not your fault becuse FL is dead...
If you were town, you would not have placed that hammer when you did, there was no rush, no deadline, no limit to think.
Im not having "its not my fault"... I believe you to be scum, end of...

Firestarter · Post Post #334 (isolation #22) » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:58 am

SpyreX wrote:KoC,

I might have worded that poorly. Not because they didn't vote, but BEFORE then I had suspicions on them all and, oddly enough, none of them also voted. I thought that was interesting enough to warrant mention.

I guess Im included in that bunch, considering I retracted my vote after my exchange with FL....
Ill look forward to hearing your earlier suspicions.

@SpyreX

What do make of GIMBO's posts prior to and after FL's death, 319 & 324?

Firestarter · Post Post #337 (isolation #23) » Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:37 am

Gimbo wrote:ok, what I do not understand is how a post with the sole word 'shit' after fl flipped town and I was the hammer vote suddenly make me scummy to firestarter

Did you ignore the part where I said.. "posts" prior to and after FL's death?

I dont like your response at all...

Firestarter · Post Post #339 (isolation #24) » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:03 pm

Gimbo wrote:don't worry, neither do I ;]

WTF?

Firestarter · Post Post #360 (isolation #25) » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:49 am

Gimbo wrote:Manito: what really bothers me is that you seem to agree way too much, in fact, like FL mentioned, right after SyreX voted FL, you went in and placed a vote on FL too. This isn't the first time because I know a few pages back you did that too (too lazy to dig up), so
Vote:Manito
, I would like a PbPA from you instead of just agreeing with people, thnx.

FoS: LaptopGun, Firestarter
for not voting at all and then after fl flipped town, comes in and starts criticizing everyone when they didn't even vote themselves.

P.S. KoC, are you calling me stupid? fuck you.

Critisicing everyone????
Not voting???

More shabiness on your behalf Im afraid, and the lack of a case is very OMGUS....

Im very happy with my vote where it is.

Firestarter · Post Post #370 (isolation #26) » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:36 am

Personally, I feel that gimbo should have been modkilled.

My vote is staying right where it is.

Sorry LF, but there was just too much of a big deal in replacing Gimbo after his mouthing off out of thread.

I firmly believe you/Gimbo to be scum.

If he was town, which I did not believe to be the case anyway, there wouldn't have been the rush to remove him from thread, more a warning, as the mafia would have already known who town are.

But if he was scum, he's compromised their position big time.
Gimbo's "apology" reeks of, "I knew you were town, but I seen my chance to get rid of you"
Along with his no reasoning before the hammer, and his token "Shit" post afterwards.

The removing of him confirms to me that he/you was/is scum.

CONFIRM VOTE: GIMBO/LlamaFluff

Firestarter · Post Post #372 (isolation #27) » Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:40 pm

SpyreX wrote: So, saying his removal means he was scum is just..wrong.

I dont see it that way, Im afraid...

Add this to the BS that Gimbo posted around FL's lynch, and it makes sense to me.

And Im not critising the Mod, so dont make it sound like I am.

Firestarter · Post Post #373 (isolation #28) » Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:43 pm

SpyreX wrote:Its not like because of his alignment it was treated differently.

Hmmmm.... and what do you know of Gimbo's alignment?

Firestarter · Post Post #397 (isolation #29) » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:28 am

Connectivity will be low for the next 2 days guys, Ill try to get on at some point during this time.

Firestarter · Post Post #417 (isolation #30) » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:17 pm

Ok, Im back a re-read is due.

Ill post my thoughts shortly.

Firestarter · Post Post #450 (isolation #31) » Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:26 pm

Firestarter wrote:Connectivity will be low for the next 2 days guys, Ill try to get on at some point during this time.

Guys, apologies for not getting thoughts posted here..

But tomorrow I plan to give this as much attention as my other games.

Reading glasses on the ready..

LOOOOOOOOVIN' YOU...

FaerieLord - 4 (SpyreX, Manito, Knight of Cydonia, Corinthian)
killa seven - 2 (CF Riot, LaptopGun)
Manito - 1 (FaerieLord)
LlamaFluff - 1 (Firestarter)
Firestarter - 1 (armlx)
Corinthian - 1 (LlamaFluff)

Not Voting - Joubert, killa seven, ShadowGirl, dcorbe, Bogre

15 alive, 8 to lynch.

-Mod

Firestarter · Post Post #469 (isolation #32) » Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:53 am

Okay, since my last post of meaning in 373, the following are my thoughts on what has happened since...

Page 15

LTG seems to think that voting K7 for no other reason than to make him active seems a good idea. Says he would be the most ineffective lurker in the history of the game, and a poor mafia goon to boot. Gives thoughts on Manito/FL, Gimbo/LF and Firestarter.

Thoughts

Not alot to work on in this page, but throws up a theory that the Manito/FL argument reminds him of the K7/Forbidden debate. Does this imply that a townie is about to be lynched? Im not so sure at this point.

Page 16

K7 is first to post, and reitierates the same reasons Firestarter has for voting Gimbo/LF after the FL lynch. States he needs to look back on the case becuase he thought the wagon came and went too fast. Spyrex in 376 claims that the Firestarter a point in the case on Gimbo/LF is "Bad."

At this point, to avoid confusion, I will refer to the old Gimbo case, as Llamafluff's old case...

LF PBPA. Joubert in 379 lists 7 quotes and one-liner answers follow to each. Spyrex replies to Jouberts post with significantly more words, but in the form of questions. LF completes PBPA and plegdes to build a case and post it soon. Manito instantly states he hates "these long PBPA" posts, and asks for substance and posting on what you see, even after LF states he will build his case, then post it. FL states that "derailing the Forbidden lynch would have been a bad idea", and that he was not going to stop it, even tough he didn't actually help with it with a vote. Disagrees with Manito about the LF PBPA post. Post 384 sees LF make a case on Manito, the main reasoning being that Manito sat on the fence over the Forbidden lynch, and had his vote placed there. LF Votes Manito. Post 385 sees Manito reply to LF and argues the case against him. KOC quotes another player improperly,

Its good to tag a quote for reference

. Joubert asks Spyrex how to make a half case into a full case. Spyrex obliges with an answer, and points to a Joubert post stating that a half post begs for another player to pick up the baton. LF builds a case on Corinthian in 392, and HOS's him. LF builds a case on KOC, and Fos's him. LTG Votes for K7 in 394 wanting to root out an inactive. CFR posts thoughts on LF, Townie vibe and clean slate.... K7, scummy posts but townish vibe... Firestarter, disagrees with 90% of posts, and thought town, but 2 posts make him think FS is scum... Sides with FL in the Manito/FL exchange... Picks KOC as a new suspect.

Thoughts

One post from K7 after the previous page, and nowhere to be seen afterwards. And he only posted the exact reasonings whi I had a vote placed on Gimbo/LF. I get the distinct impression he's waiting for a slip up from a town member to jump on.. His style of play up to before he accused Forbidden of being scum and voting her, is very very similar to the way he's playing now. Very quiet, posting when he has to, and imo, waiting for the chance to jump on someone. I like LF's case on Manito here, its very strong at this point, and picks up on a few things I didnt... namely the fence sitting and having the vote on Forbidden. I also do not like FL's posts on this page, simliar to Manito, he was fence-sitting, yet had his vote on FL, and done nothing in the way of trying to look elsewhere. At this point, Im torn between K7 and Manito, with a

FoS

on FL.
I'd also like to point out that LF has done nothing wrong since replacing in, but that cannot take from earlier suspicion of Gimbo with his posts around, and after Forbiddens lynch. However, several players have commented on Gimbo's playstyle in other games, a luxury I do not have, and will

UNVOTE

at this point.

Page 17

armlx starts here re-affirming that he likes his vote on Firestarter, while acknowledging that KoC is a good suspect. Spyrex gives reasons as to why he thinks Manito is town, one of them is because he "believes Manito." But right after that, he points to them as being shenanigans??? Questions everyone who has no votes placed anywhere as to why have none placed anywhere. LF unvotes Manito, then votes KoC, seemingly wanting KoC to answer the case LF put up for him. LTG questions LF's change of vote. Manito posts a palyer synopsis on most players, then one-liners for some he had no time to read up on. LF replies to LTG, stating that KoC is above Manito on his scum-radar now. FL reiterates that Forbidden had to be lynched, even though he had no vote there. KoC questions LF's decision to upgrade him ahead of Manito, and points to the fact that LF did not do the same with Corinthian. armlx makes 2 posts on this page with very little content, also agrees with LF's posts on KoC. Spyrex attacks FL again on the point that he did nothing in the way of preventing the Forbidden lynch, nor helped in the lynch, also states that he "Does not care that other players consider him scummy." LTG questions K7's activity, and FoS's armlx from a meta seemingly. LF one-line answers some quotes from Manito, and states that he's played in games where the person he replaced, Gimbo, acted scummy, but turned out to be town, also maintains pressure on KoC. FL responds to Spyrex post, and states that "If we hadn't lynched forbiddan we would still be discussing her." In response to not voting elsewhere, FL responds the reason he didn't, was because the Forbidden lynch would lose traction. KoC responds to LF's questions, but puts off answering CFR questions due to a lack of time. KoC also calls out Corinthian for not responding to LF's inital questions. In the very next post, 422, Corinthian appears, and votes FL, but does not answer above mentioned questions from LF. Spyrex questions FL's reasons for not voting Forbidden, for not voting anyone else he suspects, and accuses FL of being scummy for not posting anything directly linked to the lynch, whether supporting it, or turning his attention elsewhere. Joubert with a random post.

Thoughts

armlx, states that he likes the vote he placed on me, and recognises that KoC is another good bet based on LF's case. To this point, armlx has posted 4 times since Forbiddens lynch, the first was a suspicion of me and CFR on page 16, then a vote on me and a promise for posting his case on me... that has not been forthcoming, and Im beggining to think that armlx is playing the same strategy as K7, lurking, and popping in once in a while to point at someone, make a statement, and to generally try to look active... Im not buying it, and I surprised that no-one else had picked up on this until 418 by LTG, and his FoS of armlx. As for Spyrex's reasons as to why he believes Manito is town, as far as Im concerned, you need to do alot better to change anybody mind who has suspicions of Manito at this point. Sofar, Spyrex has posted mainly good posts up till this post, but his 403 is weak, and bad. Dont state you believe someone is town, purely from just believing them.. it wont wash. Maybe its nothing, but straight after you listed your reasoning for believing Manito is town, you call it a "Shenanigans."???? Since replacing, LF had not posted anything from a personal viewpoint, just PBPA, but I consider his pursuit of KoC unfair, and inconsistent, seeing as KoC was below Corinthian in his earlier case building, but did not go after Corinthian with the same vigour.

This is purely Meta, but LF is similar in the other games Im in with him, he makes a case, and very soon after, drops it for someone else. Seeing as those beforesaid games have not been completed, I cannot give any other meta reading from him.

In saying that, I dont like this strategy... LF had made 3 cases, and he chose to go after the 3rd on his list, KoC. Why not go after who you think are more scummier? The instance here would be to point out Spyrex's continued attack on FL. The main reasons are beacuse of his fence-sitting, and I tend to go with this. Regardless of the fact that I removed my vote from Forbidden before the hammer, I was coming around to the idea that Forbidden was town. However, I put pressure on, and placed my vote. You can make from this what you will, but I believed that Forbidden was more & more town. Couple this with the very low activity from practically everyone else in the game at that time, then you could forgive me for any tunnel-vision, as there was nothing else to work on. Spyrex also mentions that that he doesn't care if anyone else considers him scummy through his pursuit of FL. All I can say to this is acting scummy does not = Scum. More to the point, Spyrec is staying through to what he believes, and in fact is doing the complete opposite of what FL failed to do at the time of Forbiddens lynch, and thats speaking out and posting thoughts.
LF also states that he's seen Gimbo play scummy in other games and actually be town... Im not gonna buy this either, as a meta can be useful, but in this context, it only serves to hide scummy play that would be the norm. Remember, LF is replacing Gimbo afterall, and I find this post scummy. Corinthian only made an appearance at the end of this page after being called out by KoC, and really should have answer the questions that were asked of him by LF, considering the heat KoC has taken for not answering them.

Page 18

Spyrex seemingly ridicules Jouberts random post, claiming it to be content-less and vote-less, which it was. armlx posts in response to FL and LTG, he states that ignoring Forbidden would have been an option before she was lynched, in order to look elsewhere for scum. FL in 428 argues armlx point of ignoring a problem, rather than solving it. Spyrex posts that FL just contradicted himself. armlx then states that solving the Forbiddden problem would be easy, just assume she's town and just ignore her. LF responds to Koc's answers, and places a vote on Corinthian for the same reason as KoC's vote. Corinthian responds to LF vote on him, claiming there were no questions in LF's post/case. LF points to the fact that it was a

Case

and points made towards Corinthian. CFR posts in 436, that he is working on a reply to all questions asked. Spyrex admits to tunnel-vision, and asks for Joubert to place a vote/comment. FL admits he could have voted/changed arguments around Forbidden lynch, but questions armlx post of simply ignoring Forbidden at said time of lynch. FL states that he "rarely votes." KOC points to the fact that FL did not vote for Forbidden, but instantly voted for Manito after Forbidden is lynched. KOC says the vote on Manito was placed with far less evidence that the evidnce provided for Forbiddens lynch. Sprex again attacks the "fence-sitting" nature of FL around the Forbidden lynch. Fl again concedes that the Forbidden lynch was needed. Sprex becomes very vocal in 446 about Fl's recent posts. LTG questions Fl on not agreeing that he was at some points scummy. CFR posts in 448 regarding earlier questions posed to him, and gives synopsis of some players, leaves vote on K7. LF states that a lynching of either Manito, Koc or Corinthian would be better than FL.

Thoughts

Spyrex calls on Joubert to post more content/vote/anything, and going by his recent pursuit of FL, I'd have imagined more composition on Joubert, after he didn't actually reply to Spyrex. Inconsistent with your previous pages playstyle, but nothing major, as Joubert has ultimately contributed little in this game so far. That in itself, is slightly worrying, after all, there is so much going on that its easy for him to stay below the radar, and not be picked upon. Ignoring a problem Does

NOT

make it go away, as armlx suggested. The fact that you are saying this after attacking FL for indeciveness is illogical, as you could be accussed for doing exactly the same thing/thinking the same thing as FL is being accussed of. I did not like that post one bit, and reeks of scum trying to strenghten a case on another player, who by deduction, would be town. Spyrex rightly states that FL had contradicted himself when he pointed out that armlx was in fact doing the same thing as FL. This, imo, does not take away from the fact that armlx actually posted the content that lead to this discussion. In opposition to my page 17 thoughts by myself, LF did do what I, and initially KoC suggested he should do, and thats be consistent with his playstyle. LF is coming across towny at this point due to his consistency and scum-hunting. In relation to the FL debate, there is a case that he purely sat back and watched while Forbidden was lynched, and as Forbidden was a townie, it was an ideal opportunity to lynch another townie D1.5, and hence turn it into a coup for scum. I personally believe that this is a possibility, but... Like the mislynch of Forbidden, FL's activity level and answering of questions is commendable, and is townie like in comparison to others such as Corinthian, K7, dcorbe and bogre. It would seem that the strongest case is being made against FL at this moment, but I have reservations about him being scum. I cannot put my finger on it entirely, but I think a lesson must be learned in the circumstances of the Forbidden lynch. This remionds me of the Forbidden lynch, and tbh, it would not be good for town to lose another member before scums first NK.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

VOTE: armlx

This is armlx's post right after Forbidden is lynched...

armlx wrote:I'm currently leaning CF Riot or Firestarter, rereading is needed tho.

His next post...

armlx wrote:Yeah,
Vote Firestarter
. Full case soon, but the major thing I saw was the distancing from the lynch towards the end.

And his next...

armlx wrote:
I can second this.

Still liking my Firestarter vote, but this is another good avenue.

I'd very much like to hear your "Case" armlx.
Let me post some facts for you however....
You have not once significantly contributed in any of your posts in this game whatsoever...
All you have done is post at max, 2/3 lines in each post.
Most of the time, its someone elses thinking, and the rest its correcting someone/adding filler.
And before I see your case on me, here are other facts...
This is a post from you...
Post 344

armlx wrote:Yeah,
Vote Firestarter
. Full case soon, but the major thing I saw was the distancing from the lynch towards the end.

I removed my vote in 244 in regards to Forbidden.

(Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:38 am Page 10.)

I call for no hammer, and ask for all to reread.

(Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:34 pm, Post subject: 313)

Sat, Jul 05, 2008, 7:19 pm, Post subject: 319

>> Gimbo Hammers.

Thats 175 posts before Forbidden is lynched, and almost 3 days.

You, and others had the chance to remove your votes, yet did not.

So your "token post" does not wash.

Im looking forward to seeing your first real contribution to the game armlx, particularly the case you promised in post 334.

Firestarter · Post Post #470 (isolation #33) » Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:03 am

Guys, I might have mentioned this in my previous post... seriously, I cant spot it...

But when quoting, its really helpful to have the name of the actual quoter attached...

Firestarter · Post Post #481 (isolation #34) » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:19 am

armlx wrote:
armlx (it's taken you this long to actually put a Firestarter case together? Huh. And a null-tell is no defence. It's just a null-tell.)
Null-tell is a defense when the accusation is that the behavior is a scum tell.

armlx (it's taken you this long to actually put a Firestarter case together? Huh. And a null-tell is no defence. It's just a null-tell.)
I'm lazy, this game sorta fell low on my interest list out of the number I am in. As I said, coming today or tomorrow.

Lazy is another defence when being scum....
i.e.,

Posting little, on every 2nd page, just to show your there, I think its all a stage....

Firestarter · Post Post #490 (isolation #35) » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:28 am

Bogre wrote:
VOTE: Laptopgun

You just have to read his sig to see what he's up to......

Seriously, in all this time, thats the best you can come up with????

Firestarter · Post Post #503 (isolation #36) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:34 am

armlx, your posted as promised, but I dont feel the commitment there Im afraid, especially after your initial first sentence in your first analysis post...

"I lose interest"

First off, ask to be replaced if your not interested...

Now, your play has been scumlike all the way through this game, are you seriously trying to tell me and everyone else that you were interested at any point in the game????

Because you sure as hell aint done anything different with your posting here, 1 or 2 per real day, every 2nd page, and after you threw your vote on FL, which, BTW, was never explained, I'd imagine because you were not called out on it like I have done, you then try to do the same with me.

Ive pointed that out, and youve been given no choice but to respond to this.

To me, your lying, if you werent interested, you probably wouldn't have bothered with your posts on me.... Which fits nicely with a scum trying to lie low and post as infrequently as you have.

Its very easy for you to pick which posts I made that you can turn scummy with some clever wording, twisting words and what not. But nothing you have mentioned is solid, you also have no real evidence of me being scum, unlike what I have on you.

I also laid in another post facts that you have ignored/twisted, such as when I removed my vote of FL, and the posts Ive asked for others to reread/not hammer.

Facts are facts, and what Ive mentioned above, and in my analysis post of you, HAS happened....
What you have mentioned is your interpretation of what you think has happened....

Your interpretation = Scum interpretation.

Firestarter · Post Post #511 (isolation #37) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:19 am

SpyreX wrote:I am still very comfortable with my FL lynch, however this new avenue already promises to be interesting.

Firestarter, your first analysis of arm honestly feels like an OMGUS.

The arguments of not being interested, yet posting because he's scum, really dont make sense.

Arm has been very detached from this game but I haven't got a scumvibe from him, at all. He's one of the few.

You, however, have been higher profile for me and this last set of reasoning doesn't help it any.

As an aside, Bogre's vote with nothing behind it bothers me even more than this. Joubert falling off the face of the earth again also is fairly annoying.

Vote stays, though.

If armlx had done to someone else, what he had done to me, then I would still have picked up on it. The fact that it is me, would make it seem Omgusy, TBH, I think the fact that armlx has NOT said my vote was Omgusy could mean theres validity in the actual case?

Maybe its a good idea to try and make this case without it as much as an OMGUS as you think Spyrex.....

___________________________________________________________

Ok, if I made myself unclear about armlx not being "interested", then here's his post....

armlx wrote: Meh, more don't take Mountainous games as I generally lose interest in them.

Before the end of page 4, armlx posted about another game, and random voting... nothing worthwhile, but thats expected in the "random stage."

But since the semi-serious stage and up to when I voted him, nothing much of any use has been gathered, at least in the way of use for townies....

Here are alot of his posts before and after Forbidden was lynched...
Up to when I posted my vote on him...

armlx wrote:5 hours without posts isn't that bad.

Nothing of use... filler

armlx wrote:
You hadn't replaced into the game yet. This was day 2. Justin never claimed, he just acted what I considered out of character. I was horrifyingly wrong though with crazy ideas. It's a cautionary tale for meta-attacks, but that was largely because my case was much stronger in my mind. And of course he was hiding something... he was just a cop.
No, I reread all that. I thought you attacks then were valid, or I would have tried to get you lynched.

Nothing of use... filler.

armlx wrote:
killa seven wrote:im confused about the cop investigation talk, is that this game? i thought this was day one....
There also aren't cops in this game.

Nothing of use... filler.

armlx wrote:Lurkers are for the mod to sort out, and if they continue to lurk without wanting to be replaced then its the players problem.

Nothing of use... filler... Again

armlx wrote:
forbiddanlight wrote:Works for me. Different playstyles here than I'm used to. So, fine.
retract vote from voodo
. Now...I really have no idea who to vote. I will put out there that while it's no where near clearage, I am leaning more town on gimbo and Bogre for avoiding jumping on me with votes for what seemed like posting for the sake of posting, instead pointing out the error and letting others draw their conclusions. I am sure a mislynch on me would be easy because I'm still finding my way. They avoided that option, giving me a chance to defend myself. Now maybe this is typical in this forum, but that's odd for scum where I play because usually if they can push a mislynch without seeming very out of line, they will. I'm still not sure where to vote right now, because no one seems to be really scummy, if at all scummy. So for now, I'm not voting, but will when I feel someone is worth it.
This post seems pretty scummy. Non-commital, dismissing of attacks as easy targeting, no defense.

Now it starts to get fun....
With armlx' answer here, he is also guilty of said >> Non-commital.

armlx wrote:What meta discussion dcorbe? Its over. Comments on things are good btw.

Yet no comment from armlx....?

armlx wrote:
town should never vote for himself or herself, ask to be replaced.
Doesn't mean they don't.

Nothing of use... filler.

armlx wrote:
killa seven wrote:pity is for the weak.
Not mislynching is for the winners.

Nothing of use... whatsoever...

armlx wrote:
Gimbo wrote:K7, unvote now, forbid basically soft-claimed, get off her case already.
I lol'ed. Soft claim in a Mountainous game.

You lol'd, yet did nothing else with this post...

armlx wrote:
forbiddanlight wrote:I soft claimed? Actually, no, I wasn't implying I had a role at all. Since it was clearly a colossal failure I'll explain my reasoning. I wanted to test a tactic. Vote myself under the pretense of giving up, and see if any scum took the bait of. It backfired, causing people to think I was more town but frustrated, stupid, misguided, or all of the above. However, my little experiment did reveal a few interesting facts about killa seven. I think an
FoS Killa Seven
is a good idea here. He definitely gave a more scummy read than the rest of you in response to what I did. I apologize for not continuing the tatic longer, but it didn't seem to be getting anywhere.
This actually makes me feel pretty sketchy about you.

Here is the start of some posts that really get to me..
Non-commital, and making statements for someone else to pick up on.
No FoS' or votes from armlx in any of these type posts where he seems to be suspicious...
Suspicious...

armlx wrote:
I'm with Armlx on this one, and to quote the old addage - LAL.
Meh, this isn't really a LAL scenario unless you think he is lying about his self vote being a trap. Which I sorta do.

Major contradiction here, he says

"This isn't really a LAL scenario"

and then states

"unless you think he is lying about his self vote being a trap. Which I sorta do."

"Which I sorta do" after he says it "isn't a Lal scenario"???

armlx wrote:
manito wrote: you either get the suspicion thrown off yourself early with the move (as mafia, this would keep you safer from an early lynch) OR you get the suspicion thrown on someone else who comes after you.
I was sarnath'ed.

Nothing useful/filler

armlx wrote:
I wont be pressured into throwing Fos's around, nor votes at this stage by you or anyone.
You think your vote is much more dangerous then it actually is. You should change this.

Again, this seems he has suspicions, but it also seems hes willing to let someone else take up the baton.
No FoS, no vote again.

armlx wrote:Yeah, I'm really not buying forbiddanlight's play so far.

Unvote, Vote forbiddanlight

No case, and no promise to make one afterwards...

armlx wrote:Lynching someone you think is town but just a bad player is not the best move FL.
And stop doing that promoting a lynch but not voting people thing. It just makes you look scummy every time.

As opposed to voting someone

without

a case?

armlx wrote:
2) Get used to it. By now you should know that I rarely vote. But since this is nightless, it looks like I will have to.
FL, this only benefits you in games you are scum, and even then you will still get default lynched or vigged for it a good amount regardless of alignment. If you stop doing it, it will be better for you in the long run.

This again, is another post that seems armlx' suspicions has been raised...
But, yet again, no FoS, no vote. And no follow up.
"Let someone else take this from where Ive left it..."

armlx wrote:
killa seven wrote:
vote forbiddanlight

please dont vote yourself and hunt scum thanks.
So your post implies you think he is town, yet you vote for him?

I dont see where K7 implies he thinks Forbidden is town in that post.....
Please explain...

armlx wrote:
I kinda see your point but your play is becoming confusing and erratic
This is usually a sign of someone who is lying about their motives.

Another breadcrumb for someone else to pick up here, and again, no Fos, no vote, no follow up...

And here's 1 beauty I missed out on my first re-reading....

armlx wrote:Your analysis is a summary. You post practically no opinions or interpretations of players actions. This is a bad thing.

Apart from the case you've posted on me armlx, you are the single most guiltiest player of the crime you suggest in that quote...
By your own logic, you look really really really bad....

Ah, I didn't include this one either I believe....

armlx wrote:Someone mind hammering fl? His going back on all his actions reeks of scumminess.

This post came when Forbidden had only 6 votes on her, it took 9 to hammer.
armlx seems desperate for this lynch to go through, and practically begs for someone to hammer her.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Ignoring my first analysis of armlx, and this one, I have pretty much nothing else to go on here....

Seriously, your non commital, your filler posts, suggesting one thing and not following them up, your votes on Forbidden and me without as much as a sniff of a case to go with them, your PBPA analysis of me, only after I called you out with my vote on you....

I seriously get the distinct smell of anti-town from you....

CONFIRM VOTE: ARMLX

Firestarter · Post Post #517 (isolation #38) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:38 am

Firestarter wrote:

armlx wrote:
You hadn't replaced into the game yet. This was day 2. Justin never claimed, he just acted what I considered out of character. I was horrifyingly wrong though with crazy ideas. It's a cautionary tale for meta-attacks, but that was largely because my case was much stronger in my mind. And of course he was hiding something... he was just a cop.
No, I reread all that. I thought you attacks then were valid, or I would have tried to get you lynched.
Nothing of use... filler.
How is that line of discussion regarding LTG's early suspicion filler? Do you even know the context of it, or are you just saying it is?

Yes, the context was that of another game, you said it yourself, and its printed on page 1, there is no cop, therefore making that conversation irrelevant. More to what my point actually was, it did not help this game.
_______________________________________________________

In relation to the last part of your post.

armlx wrote:I also see you have yet to respond to ANYTHING I said in the PBPA.

It was a PBPA, your interpretation.
All you have done is given thoughts, like I have in mine.
At the time that you actually placed your vote on me, your core reasoning was that I apparantly "Distanced myself" from the Forbidden lynch.. See the quote from me below.

Firestarter wrote: I removed my vote in 244 in regards to Forbidden.
(Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:38 am Page 10.)

I call for no hammer, and ask for all to reread.
(Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:34 pm, Post subject: 313)

Sat, Jul 05, 2008, 7:19 pm, Post subject: 319
>> Gimbo Hammers.

Thats 175 posts before Forbidden is lynched, and almost 3 days.

You, and others had the chance to remove your votes, yet did not.

I have no problem answering questions from you armlx....
But your statements, and indeed mine, in both PBPA's, are something the rest of town need to read and digest.

Firestarter · Post Post #518 (isolation #39) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:44 am

Joubert wrote:Isn't tunnel vision usually a Townish tell?

SpyreX wrote:As an aside, Bogre's vote with nothing behind it bothers me even more than this. Joubert falling off the face of the earth again also is fairly annoying.
Calmos, I
DID
fall off the face of the Earth, I had to get back on...

By the way, KoC, there's a superb function in the forums to prevent formatting errors. It's called "Preview".

I'd say Firestarter's long post is more annoying than merely empty. It's like a huge silo with a coffee cup at the bottom. We should focus on the coffee cup. Firestater, you said Armlx is "non-commital", just like the accusation in the quoted text, but it looks like being "commital" in your point of view only means voting. And the follwing comments show exactly what I say. No vote, no FoS. Can you confirm on this and/or explain?

Im not sure what you mean by this...

"And the follwing comments show exactly what I say. No vote, no FoS. Can you confirm on this and/or explain?"

Ill try to explain from what I can gather..

If I have a suspicion, or 2 or 3, I'd at least

FoS

someone because of the said suspicions.
But not once, through the many times that armlx posted what does look like suspcions, did he post a

FoS

of anyone.
The first commital, so to speak, was the vote on Forbidden..
The second, the vote on me..
Both without reasoning.
But Im not solely basing my case on armlx with these points, there are more, which Ive already stated.

Firestarter · Post Post #521 (isolation #40) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:59 am

armlx wrote:
But your statements, and indeed mine, in both PBPA's, are something the rest of town need to read and digest.
No, accusations are things for players to refute.

Im not scum.... Accusation refuted.

At this point, I would like to hear our new player

thought

on developments, as well as everyone elses outside of armlx/KoC/LTG/Firestarter.

Firestarter · Post Post #523 (isolation #41) » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:08 am

Knight of Cydonia wrote:Firestarter, armlx, are you deliberately ignoring me? Admitting you would have hammered someone you thought to be town... come on. What more do you want?

KoC, Im not ignoring you, I just dont think FL is scum at this point.

See my analysis post when I hopped back into thread.

Regardless, Ive got my own suspect. And tbh, the evidence on armlx is much more damning from my POV.

Firestarter · Post Post #596 (isolation #42) » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:10 am

@ Mod: Can you please fix who is in the game at this moment on P1, wasn't Voodo replaced?

armlx wrote:
Im not scum.... Accusation refuted.

Deliberately avoiding the issue at hand is not an out here. More logic plz.

Likely answer armlx, but I was not avoiding any issues. I made my point after you questioned me about not refuting accusations.

Ok..

Unvote

Im getting the same feeling that I got from Forbidden, only on a much stronger level from armlx. Im also satiated with your responses to my points, queries, and ultimately my case.
You are almost 300% more active then you were before, and looking into cases.
____________________________________________________________________

Ok,

Vote: Killa7

I dont like your lurking for the fact that you are coming out when called on, its not a case of flaking in this game, your reading, and not contributing.

Minimal posts, bad posts at that (particularly your last one)...
Come out from your hiding place...

Firestarter · Post Post #603 (isolation #43) » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:05 am

armlx wrote:....

Firestarter is unreal obv scum. Just unvoting me there for no reason, not actually responding to points brought up against him....

No reason??

Did you actually read the post, I unvoted for more or less the same reason I unvoted Forbidden....

Why would you be so intent on me retaining my vote on you?
____________________________________________________________

My vote on K7 is exactly the reason that Spyrex has just posted... More content, after all, it brought you out of the woodwork, armlx!

Firestarter · Post Post #609 (isolation #44) » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:57 pm

Ive stated in a previous post that I get townie vibes from you, after our exchange.
The fact I went after you was because of your low activity, yes, you were posting, but alot of it was one-liners, and being led by other players thoughts, thats the feeling I got at the time.
Now you are more active, you have at least built a case, albeit against me.
You are also posting more about other players too.

Let me clear this up once more, even tough I have posted on this several times.

I unvoted Forbidden because I did not beleive she was scum after our exchange, similar to whats happened after the armlx vote by me.
At the time I was arguing with Forbidden, there was at most, 3/4/ active players?
There was no input from anyone else, and after I realised that my thoughts of Forbidden had changed, I asked for more players for input/thoughts/re-reads.

During one of my re-reads, I noticed armlx' posts throughout the pages, and I wanted a response from him. I got it, and I got a town read from him, hence the unvote.

Now, as for K7.. Looking back, I'd imagine

at least

one scum was on the Forbidden wagon, and K7's post where he threw the vote down looks scummy given all thats happened.
It looks very opportunistic and I now want a response from him.

@CFR...
In response to your post about armlx/me, Ive outlined my reasoning why I built such a case, at the time, armlx was everything I described in that post.
The fact he has changed his playstyle does not change that fact from earlier.
Post 469, was a runthrough with my afterthoughts added.

Firestarter · Post Post #611 (isolation #45) » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:34 pm

@K7, Im not the only one asking for you to do anything, if the above vote count is right, you have 3 votes on you.
It makes sense that you've only responded to the voter on you that has the most interest in them atm, me.
So now, your gonna ask questions... *Wonderment...*

But you have only posted when called out, and at that, with little or next to nothing of help for town. You have not contributed significantly up to this point either. No cases, no thoughts... But serious lurking.

Forbidden flipped Town, and you were on that wagon, I dont believe it was purely town-driven, do you?

Add to the fact that you went into hiding after your vote, then it rings alarm bells.

Firestarter · Post Post #612 (isolation #46) » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:03 am

@Mod:-

Actually, looking at the vote count above, it doesn't appear to be right, Ive taken my vote from armlx.....

¬_¬

-Mod

Firestarter · Post Post #617 (isolation #47) » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:20 am

armlx wrote:I still see no responses to my case Firestarter.....

Firestarter wrote:Ive stated in a previous post that I get townie vibes from you, after our exchange.
The fact I went after you was because of your low activity, yes, you were posting, but alot of it was one-liners, and being led by other players thoughts, thats the feeling I got at the time.
Now you are more active, you have at least built a case, albeit against me.
You are also posting more about other players too.

Let me clear this up once more, even tough I have posted on this several times.

I unvoted Forbidden because I did not beleive she was scum after our exchange, similar to whats happened after the armlx vote by me.
At the time I was arguing with Forbidden, there was at most, 3/4/ active players?
There was no input from anyone else, and after I realised that my thoughts of Forbidden had changed, I asked for more players for input/thoughts/re-reads.

During one of my re-reads, I noticed armlx' posts throughout the pages, and I wanted a response from him. I got it, and I got a town read from him, hence the unvote.

Now, as for K7.. Looking back, I'd imagine
at least
one scum was on the Forbidden wagon, and K7's post where he threw the vote down looks scummy given all thats happened.
It looks very opportunistic and I now want a response from him.

@CFR...
In response to your post about armlx/me, Ive outlined my reasoning why I built such a case, at the time, armlx was everything I described in that post.
The fact he has changed his playstyle does not change that fact from earlier.
Post 469, was a runthrough with my afterthoughts added.

Ive tried to clear this up, or hadn't you noticed...?

armlx, Im happy to answer any questions from you, shoot.

Firestarter · Post Post #618 (isolation #48) » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:37 am

@armlx >>> By my reckoning, youve "pointed" out in 3 different posts that Ive not argued your case against me.....
Please stop asking me to answer your post, when your incapable of doing it yourself.....

LaptopGun wrote:
UNVOTE
I'll get back to killa7 at some point as he has been pretty much the poster child for lurking. Problem is, armlx has the gall to do all this and more

Now I need
Vote: armlx
I absolutely hate how you are dancing around people's questions when you are here. I feel you have only answered one question in day 2 completely, and that was my comment about the meta read. While you were and are right that your play as a serial killer would not be a very strong indicator of mafia, and I won't get into a WIFOM argument over why could be in your best interest to prove it, you are nonetheless being a little gadfly of a lurker. You pop up when there is an interesting opening then leave. Or you say enough to seem to be there. I like how you turn to a non-commital "null tell" to defend FL. And what prey-tell is your criteria for deciding it's a good or bad lynch anyway?

I may not be Oman and follow "Lynch All Lurkers" above everything, but this is just terrible. And you're not the only one either.

armlx wrote:
I absolutely hate how you are dancing around people's questions when you are here.
Are there questions I haven't answered?

Actual Fire case and rebuttal coming in the next 24 hours.

The original post was aimed at you armlx, and by your own philosphy, you best answer this before you try to throw any questions at me...
Theres an analogy there somewhere.. I think the words "Pot" & "Kettle" are contained in it.
__________________________________

Again, Im happy to answer any questions you have of me...
But at least indicate they are such with an "?" at the end...

Firestarter · Post Post #620 (isolation #49) » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:07 am

killa seven wrote:*face palm*

I know you said you dont do large posts, but thats ridiculous....

Is this what we should expect from you K7?

If you've something to say, say it... rather than that tripe....

BTW, are you read-up yet?

Firestarter · Post Post #621 (isolation #50) » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:03 pm

killa seven wrote:*face palm*

I know you said you dont do large posts, but thats ridiculous....

Is this what we should expect from you K7?

If you've something to say, say it... rather than that tripe....

BTW, are you read-up yet?

Firestarter · Post Post #624 (isolation #51) » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:12 am

armlx.... pose your questions in a concise post, and Ill happily answer.

Firestarter · Post Post #640 (isolation #52) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:45 am

Ive explained this in several posts Ive made, including a post with dates & times before your PBPA... in relation to your case, which is based on so called "distancing" from the forbidden lynch.

If theres anything else you need answering other than that, feel free to ask me questions if you have any.

Your pursuit on me over your thoughts on me is getting rather annoying, what is your case?

Please post it next time, this is the third time Ive asked you to do this, but keep reffering me back to something Ive already answered.

Firestarter · Post Post #643 (isolation #53) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:16 am

armlx wrote: 1: Calls Gimbo out for over reaction, which is not a good thing (over reaction != scum tell), but it was the random stage so w/e.

2: Kinda contradictory, argues against random voting when he did. Meh.

3: Cites fl as misguided townie.

4: He starts spouting off you could be scum arguments against fl's actions, but he thinks fl is town? Doesn't add up.

No, incorrect, I gave alternatives.

5: This is a good one. Refuses to really vote (BAD)

I did not refuse to vote. Its better if you were to post the actual conversation instead of one of my posts.

Do you get the scent of townie blood up for a D1 lynch???

This was quoted by another player as being a good post...

Nice attack here on CF Riot, not sure what this falls under but its not good.....

The more conversation on D1 the better for town, theres no need to rush through a lynch CFR....

Fence sit???? I was the only active player that was scumhunting, I was far from fence sitting.

Misrep. of CF's point that you should do something rather then fence sit.

6: OMGUS's CF Riot.

8: Complete 180 on fl. Odd considering fl's behavior falls under his description of fl as town (misguided townie)

This is explained in numerous posts throughout the thread since.

9:
You are NOT acting townish, a confirmed townie nor represent a solid case, so I hope you can see where Im going with this atm....
Direct contradiction.
Plainly, you are the scummiest player right now, your posts have been very sketchy, and you'll have me believe that "your plan" was what it was....

How is this a contradiction, please explain....

Another.

9: Valid point about fl being OMGUSy.

10:
Then point to the evidence, rather than saying "stop attacking me"....
This is kinda odd, as I don't think this is what fl was doing at all.

What was FL doing then?

11:
You say in your last post (quoted at the top of this post) that Bogre & Corinthian are attacking you, yet in your synopsis post above, you havent given either a special one liner, like the rest, yet you seem to be saying that they are attacking you more than Killa!!
I find that very strange indeed....

And for the Killa mention, you have him at the top of your list on the last page, yet your now saying he isn't attacking you any more???
This is pretty wrong. Just because someone is attacking you doesn't mean you have a read on them, and her reasons to attack K7 were outside of the current attacks.

I think this logic was lost by armlx, after I attacked him..!!! As he is contradicting himself by calling me scum, after I attacked him.

12:
So basically you think that FL1 is ok because she reckons your town??
And that I might be scum beacuse she thinks so also??
Dont be so naive....
Misrep. The quote even said she wasn't necessarily town, and agreeing with someone's case isn't bad.

The qoute this point came from read "He even called me town throughout", I haven't gone back to quote it word for word, but this accurate.

So, FL using the word twist may seem clever, but that is not the case when I pointed to the Alternative of her ploy.... Which was her being scum trying to frame an over aggressive townie....
It is not lying, nor twisting words, as FL has so eloquently put it, it is however a possibilty that was 50:50 at the time of my posting it, was it not???
That ratio, to me, is fairly lopsided at her being scum now, after what has been posted by her since then....
The twist thing is valid, except I'm not sure that was what fl was trying to say you were twisting.

Again, what do you think FL was getting act??? Dont just say it isn't, and not use reasoning with it.
This is the 2nd instance of this in your PBPA

Also, bringing false probabilities into the discussion isn't good. 50/50 is false for town/scum. Just because there are 2 options does not mean they are equal. The chance of fl being scum laying a trap was fairly large, but 50/50.... not so much.

False probabiliteis???? I dont think so. Are you saying that the alternative I brought to the table is a false probability?
If so, why???

13:
Quote:
May I ask why you have placed your vote on me, rather than leaving it where you believe scum to be???

And Ive checked back through K7's recent posts, and I dont see him throwing votes around, his last few posts were aimed at you, like most other players.

It helps to quote posts....

Except fl just said she felt you were more scummy.... Also deflection to K7.

Its easy to pick posts that you can in turn "twist" armlx.
This post replied to several.
And this post of yours just sucks.

14:
Quote:
You saying that some of your attackers are not scum is full of WIFOM....
Again, there are alternatives to that, like them being fellow scum, them being town and leaving a breadcrumb for their lynch..

Do you follow now???

Attacking someone for stating opinions = no.

Again, its good to point out alternatives... I dont believe anything anyone says unless Im convinced they are town.
At this point, youve attacked me for stating alternatives... twice.
And they were valid ones.
If you think otherwise, your gonna need more than your "pop-in, Im here" posts....

15:
Firestarter wrote:
forbiddanlight wrote:
I phrased that badly. He's no longer actively attacking me, though he was attacking me, hence why I said that. To be honest, he seems to just throw in the occasional "Yeah, you look scummy" and doesn't even try to back it up as much as everyone else has been backing their votes. I still think he's pretty much definite scum, even though that's possibly my own falling to self fulfilling prophecy. Really, thinking on it...I actually feel evidentially better about a unvote, vote Firestarter than I do about Killa. I feel emotionally that Killa is scum though, as well as somewhat evidentially with the fact he hasn't seemed to back himself up much, if at all. So, that's where I stand.

My choice of wording was wrong, you did not say vote....
But you did say he throws in the occasional "yeah" here & there...
Please, quote them for me, full posts...
But you have contradicted yourself something fierce in that post, first you say your definite that Killa is scum, then you move your vote to me...
Are you also definite about me being scum?

forbiddanlight wrote:
And about my vote, both of you are likely scum in my eyes, it's just that I honestly feel the evidence supports voting you better than the evidence supports killa.

Firestarter wrote:
May I ask why you have placed your vote on me, rather than leaving it where you believe scum to be???

I would very much like a concise post from you based on your recent change of votes from Killa to me....

And I wont settle for this again....
forbiddanlight wrote:
I actually feel evidentially better about a unvote, vote Firestarter than I do about Killa. I feel emotionally that Killa is scum though, as well as somewhat evidentially with the fact he hasn't seemed to back himself up much, if at all. So, that's where I stand.

That's a pretty menial attack here.

What exactly am I to respond to here?

16:
Firestarter wrote:Yeah, Ive given off scuminess by twisting your words..... ok...

See my last few posts if you need clarification as to what I actually was doing......
Giving alternatives.
The fact you have reacted so badly, imo, is the reason I think of you as scum.

BTW, lets not get personal here, Im pretty sure your no idiot, and I can assure you that I aint an idiot either....

Now, am I gonna get a concise post from you or not?
Its the 2nd time you have evaded my request...
He wants a concise post with all the evidence? Also, notice the change back to aggressor.

2 obvious thoughts, whats your point???

In summary, Firestarter spends this whole portion alternating between attacks on fl's opinions, saying she has given none, then buddying back up to divert suspicion from himself.

No, Incorrect, I attacked for responses, I got responses and was satiated with them.

17: This is an odd one. He just backs off fl for activity reasons and spreads fear of a mislynch. I don't know what to think of this post.

Yes, correct, I did fear for a mislynch... your point?

18: This is a good post, just one that feels like he should have made it several posts earlier before he started attacking fl.

19: Pretty waffling stance on fl.

...

20: More waffling, and a semantic jab at fl's post.

...

21: Valid post, barring knowledge of k7 and gimbo's metas. k7 and gimbo were doing dumb things, but they always do.

*Token addition in a PBPA of a good point....

22: Stated town vibes contradicts his FOS, I really think Firestarter saw the writing on the wall and just abandoned ship to distance himself from the lynch.

Didn't the lynchee do exactly the same thing afterwards...
i.e., FOS me... whats your take on this?

23-25: valid posts.

26: Just straight up invalidates Gimbo's point with no proof. I am noticing this trend in his responses to me as well.

Please elaborate... post quote, etc, etc...

27-29: False logic on the replacement issue (if he was town, he wouldn't have had to have been replaced is not true in any way shape or form)

False logic???
Im starting to see a pattern develop myself... You claiming there is false logic attached to my posts, yet all you say is.. "False logic"....
I made an observation, went and found the actual post that Gimbo made, and made my thoughts clear.

31-32: Same will post later thing he is attacking me for.

33: Attacks me for not posting much, and not removing my vote from fl. The later is exactly the kind of thing I was expecting him to set up by his late unvote and sorta trying to stall the wagon.

So, after initially saying your interest in this game waned, you say that you were waiting for a slip-up somewhere from someone??
Reeks of scum....

My responses are bolded for clarification.

There are questions for you to answer here armlx..

Firestarter · Post Post #646 (isolation #54) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:35 am

Wow!!

Sprex, where does it say we are at deadline???

I dont see it, unless your pointing to LF's hypthetical post????

Firestarter · Post Post #661 (isolation #55) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:51 am

1. You call it fence sitting, I call it weighing up what’s put in front of me.

2. I did not refuse to vote, I said I would not be pressurised into voting, not when I unsure of who.

3. What’s your point? You call it a nice attack on CF, then for an unknown reason, say its not good..
All you say is its not good, I cant respond to that... sorry.

4. Au contraire, I did vote for Forbidden...

5. No, read up.

6. Your trying to make a point, yet did not back it up... On this occasion, you need to cite posts.

7. That’s a matter of interpretation.

8 . Nor do you.

9. My point was made to who I was addressing, you have the issue, so its up to you to make the point, not me.

10. You have not showed anything to be untrue. If you want to counter something in my posts, then do it with rationale, and reasoning.

11. You failed to respond to my request for you to prove that my alternatives are "false"...

12. It did suck, and still does.

13. Noted?? WTF....

14. Any questions that gather info are not menial, especially when only 1 player is scum hunting.

15. Its not impossible... You can link parts of your concise post back to other posts. A concise post, for me, is one the length of which I’m responding to, or the one I previously responded in.

16. We are guaranteed that Scum will agree, but half the game... I don’t think so. Your attack on me is wishy washy, period.

17. Chaos??? I didn't see that, I seen votes being placed on Forbidden afterwards, and those who already placed them, not removing them.. Pretty chaotic, eh?

18. You call it waffling, but don’t point to anything. Nothing to be responded to here.

19. *Token post... I’m not going to go into this, its a completely separate convo, it would take way too much time, and quite frankly I’ve better things to do here.

20. Your "take" is noted.

21. I posted in relation to your PBPA, before & after, you choose to ignore those posts.

22. Again, with what Gimbo posted, I thought an alternative action may have been better.

23. That works 50/50, for both scum & town.....

Firestarter · Post Post #662 (isolation #56) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:58 am

On the whole K7 thing, he is severly anti-town at this moment, and has been since he laid down his first vote, onwards.

Of the 3 Ive quizzed so far, Forbidden, armlx, and himself, he hasn't even bothered to respond, not just to me however.
ATM, there is alot going on in this thread, with several players targeting several other players, its very easy for K7 to lie low and hope the interest generated in him dies down today...

Ive got my vote placed on him at the moment, and its staying there too.

Firestarter · Post Post #664 (isolation #57) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:21 am

I dont like that either.... apologies...

But they are numbered in line with armlx' last post.

Firestarter · Post Post #674 (isolation #58) » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:47 pm

LaptopGun wrote:
killa seven wrote:^ that statement was scummy in itself.
lets lynch killa if hes scum ill listen to whatever u have to say? wtf?
and what makes u think me and coron would be partners because we both have lurked? yea buddy great analysis.

killa seven wrote:koc attacking me for lurking while his buddy FL is layin low going unnoticed is severly noted.
Killa 7 makes 2 good comments in a very short amount of time? Wow.

1st post = Yes...
2nd = Nope..

killa seven wrote:koc attacking me for lurking while his buddy FL is layin low going unnoticed is severly noted.

FL is far from going unnoticed.... If you are paying attention, you'd know that.
Why dont you bother actually doing something then... eh?

Firestarter · Post Post #686 (isolation #59) » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:10 am

In response to CFR...
{I base my acronyms of peoples names with the first letter of words that could be independant together... In your case, you have 2 initials leading, CF, convenient, and the word at the end starts with an R.. simple really.. C..F..R..}

What Im getting from you CFR, is seemingly an attack for attacking people.

You mention that in my response to armlx, I mention "reeks of scum"....

Acting scummy does not always = Scum.
As the case was proven with Forbidden.

Im looking for reactions from players as I target them, and I will either pursue them/not pursue them based on that, at this moment, K7 is a good target for me, and Im at a 75% read of him being scum right now.

Ive stated that I believe that armlx is more townish.
Ill also add that his repeated pursuit of me, after Ive provided countless posts for him to digest, does seem like a townish characteristic at this point.
Tunnel vision can be attributed to town in most cases, imo.
I would like to see armlx post more on other players as well, however.

My case on K7 is based on his flakiness and his repeated unwillingness to contribute in a townlike manor.. i.e., scumhunt/post any sort of PBPA's/defend himself from allegations/Placing the vote on Forbidden/not applying pressure/actively lurking...

Firestarter · Post Post #692 (isolation #60) » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:00 am

armlx wrote:
Firestarter wrote:1. You call it fence sitting, I call it weighing up what’s put in front of me.

What you call it does not change what it is

This is interpretation, your interpretation.

2. I did not refuse to vote, I said I would not be pressurised into voting, not when I unsure of who.

Very well, I will leave it up to others to see if they think it was fence sitting or analysis

3. What’s your point? You call it a nice attack on CF, then for an unknown reason, say its not good..
All you say is its not good, I cant respond to that... sorry.

Sarcasm is a key concept to understand. I'm not sure what kind of false logic that attack falls under, but my point is it is one.

...???

4. Au contraire, I did vote for Forbidden...

Not immediately, after several posts of waffling.

After a lot of questioning, again it falls under interpretation... your interpretation.

5. No, read up.

I find this in contradiction with your next statement

Of course you do...

6. Your trying to make a point, yet did not back it up... On this occasion, you need to cite posts.

Your posts before where you said fl was a misguided townie

Like when you asked me to go look for your PBPA on me, the same applied to your earlier question.
Not a contradiction at all, just asking of you, the same you asked of me.

7. That’s a matter of interpretation.

Which of fl's actions were you interpreting as such?

In response to the "180" I did with FL, I got a town read from her after my initial questioning & pressurising her.
This I’ve made clear numerous times, over & over again.

8 . Nor do you.

So, because I say you don't have to have a read on someone attacking you, because I have one on you that is a contradiction?

Not necessarily, but I know you have a wrong read at present.

9. My point was made to who I was addressing, you have the issue, so its up to you to make the point, not me.

When I ask you to clarify your point, your response should not be NO U!

You did not make a point worth addressing, but if you would like to make any previous point clearer here, Ill answer it.

10. You have not showed anything to be untrue. If you want to counter something in my posts, then do it with rationale, and reasoning.

Please show me where fl said you were twisting that statement.

Which statement?

11. You failed to respond to my request for you to prove that my alternatives are "false"...

I did. The odds of a random player being scum are NOT 50/50, end of story.

You are avoiding my question here... You have not unproven what I said, you are trying to disprove what you think I said.
The odds of someone, random or not, after a statement is made in the random stage is 50/50 of being what the OP says, and this coming after a play that the majority of players found to be scummy, including you.
Would you have me and the rest believe, now, well after Forbiddens lynch and after you also voted for her, that you believed she wasn't scum? Because I don’t understand where your going with this point.. Its reaching, big time.

12. It did suck, and still does.

In your manners, please prove why it sucks.

Because of the alleged "deflection".. I was responding to several in the same post.

13. Noted?? WTF....

It means I am pointing out you did it

Of course you are...

14. Any questions that gather info are not menial, especially when only 1 player is scum hunting.

When they shift suspicion onto someone for an insignificant action they are menial

So you consider it ok for one player to scum hunt, then vote that person as they see them scummy at one point, then anyone else who adds their vote afterwards are OK? Including you?
That insignificant action, as you put it, drew your vote to boot..
The fact I was the one attacking Forbidden at the time, makes it very easy for you to point this out..
It would be quite different if I were, say, to do what you and others did, and that was weigh in with a post with nothing else of notable content in that said post. Again, your attacking me for scum hunting...

15. Its not impossible... You can link parts of your concise post back to other posts. A concise post, for me, is one the length of which I’m responding to, or the one I previously responded in.

Ok.....

...

16. We are guaranteed that Scum will agree, but half the game... I don’t think so. Your attack on me is wishy washy, period.

The joke is half the game lynched fl, there by finding her responses inadequate. Scum won't necessarily agree even. And MY attack is wishy washy? I voted for you at the start of D2, noted suspicion, built the case, and am arguing it. You seem to flip flop on my alignment every other post

Incorrect... I wanted pressure on you, so I applied it. The fact you’ve come out so strongly since, has been town like in my eyes.

Where have I flip-flopped. This is inaccurate.

17. Chaos??? I didn't see that, I seen votes being placed on Forbidden afterwards, and those who already placed them, not removing them.. Pretty chaotic, eh?

Just because it didn't happen in this case because no one listened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen often. When one strong proponent of a lynch hops of the wagon all of the sudden they often falter and cause random other wagons that lead to sub par lynches

Ok, so now your saying it didn't happen.. Why state it did then?
And, Ill repeat this just for you, because your conveniently ignoring facts here..
I did not suddenly jump of the wagon, it was 3days before Forbidden was lynched, I even asked for the rest to consider Forbiddens lynch as being a mislynch... Nobody took notice. Nobody removed their votes.
And Gimbo stupidly hammered.
I outlined a post just for before you made your first PBPA of me, I suggest you go back, read it, and then try to tell me I hopped of the wagon suddenly, or indeed, just before Forbidden lynch.

This, again, is inaccurate.

18. You call it waffling, but don’t point to anything. Nothing to be responded to here.

I point to the fact that you keep going "fl could be town, but this is all scummy" or visa versa.

Now your attacking me for posting what my thoughts were.. OK.

19. *Token post... I’m not going to go into this, its a completely separate convo, it would take way too much time, and quite frankly I’ve better things to do here.

No, please, I have time to listen

Irrelevant at this point.

20. Your "take" is noted.

What is your take on fl's actions then? Also the contradiction with your previous attack of my "noted" is noted

My take is outlined in the various posts before my attack, during my attack, during my transgression, and after Forbiddens lynch. I like to post my thoughts during all of these actions.

21. I posted in relation to your PBPA, before & after, you choose to ignore those posts.

I believe I have responded to all your posts after my PBPA. If I haven't, please point them out

What questions remain after I’m finished responding here will suffice.

22. Again, with what Gimbo posted, I thought an alternative action may have been better.

Please clarify what you mean here

In the post out of thread, Gimbo made another post directed at Forbidden in a game I was also in.
The post read.. "Sorry for lynching you *smiley, etc, etc."
But the mod of this game, was a player in that other game, and posted immediately afterwards, stating Gimbo was to be replaced. I thought that if Gimbo was town, he would not have had to replaced, maybe warned. But the fact he was replaced immediately gave me the distinct impression that Gimbo was scum.
In that case, I thought it would have been wiser for the Mod to modkill Gimbo, rather than have a replacement come in.
I was also on the verge of asking the MOd to be replaced at one point, because I thought that the info I posted in the end, would have spoiled the game, as I believed that what Gimbo posted, harmed elements of this thread, and ultimately the game.

23. That works 50/50, for both scum & town.....

Then why are you trying to pin it as a scum tell on me if it is in fact a null tell?

Its a direct contradiction with what you have done most of D1.. and thats lurk, post here & there.
To me, that is a scum tell, as opposed to someone scum hunting and posting their thoughts on a regular basis.

Firestarter · Post Post #698 (isolation #61) » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:42 pm

killa seven wrote:KOC, just beacuase you and FL have been arguing and voting eachother doesnt mean you arent buddies, ive seen scum attack eachother when pressure gets on one scum member, then they quickly hop off and pursue someone else furiously then later say hey we possibly cant be buddies look how we been arguing.

Any chance of that "Little bit more of K7" gonna happen..... anytime soon...
..at all?

Everytime you "stop by", you leave scummier...

You pop by, state something thats a million miles from what you should be doing, like defending yourself, refuting allegations, building cases...
I think you know where Im going with this...

To me, your

blatant anti-town behaviour

is, well.. blatant...

Im not to bothered about what you claim to see where, using that as an excuse is ridiculous..
All it is, is a reason for you to post, a pathetic reason to post at that...
____________________________________________________

@Llamafluff...

Ive seen your case on Corin, and I agree with alot of it, but primarily at this moment, my focus is on K7...
Whats your overview of K7's behaviour?
__________________________________

@armlx...

You say you've seen K7 do this elsewhere? It means jackshit to me atm...
Whats your stance on K7 right now, considering the case on him..
One more question..
Its obvious Im one of your targets...
But who's next in line for you?
__________________________________

@CFR...

Whats your overview of K7's behaviour?
Who is your top 3 picks for scum?
__________________________________

@Manito..

Whats your overview of K7's behaviour?
Who is your top 3 picks for scum?
__________________________________

@Corinthian..

Whats your overview of K7's behaviour?
Who is your top 3 picks for scum?
__________________________________

I'd like for everyone who has not voiced, or has been less vocal about K7 as they have been of others, opinions on K7's behaviour at this time..

Firestarter · Post Post #700 (isolation #62) » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:09 pm

EBWOP...

@Joubert, Bogre [or replacement}, Blacknight...

Whats your overview of K7's behaviour?
Who is your top 3 picks for scum?
_____________________________________________________

@CFR...
I have suspects, those on the Forbidden lynch...
I intend to gain info from them all, but at this moment, K7 is looking real good for me at this time..

Also @ CFR...
Whats your overview of K7's behaviour?
Who is your top 3 picks for scum?

Just in case you missed it first time around....
Thanks for the vote, BTW...

Right after Ive asked all players to give their 3 picks as scum and before they did!!!... Strange...

And you never did say why?
Voting me while not your top suspect, and indeed while only 1 vote is on me, is really suspicious, you know that?

I'd like to think your not trying to start a BW on the back of someone else's argument, considering the main proponent of that, armlx, has not indicated where he stands at this moment after the mountainous amount of questions Ive answered...

*Afterthought...

armlx & mountainous in the same sentence... Who'd have thought it!!

YOU AND ME BABY AIN'T NOTHING BUT MAMMALS

killa seven - 4 (TheSweatpantsNinja, Firestarter, Knight of Cydonia, SpyreX)
FaerieLord - 2 (Manito, Corinthian)
Manito - 2 (FaerieLord, LlamaFluff)
Firestarter - 2 (armlx, CF Riot)
armlx - 1 (LaptopGun)
LaptopGun - 1 (Bogre)

Not Voting - Joubert, killa seven, BlckKnght

15, 8.

-Mod

Firestarter · Post Post #707 (isolation #63) » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:25 pm

Firestarter wrote:
Firestarter wrote: __________________________________

@CFR...

Whats your overview of K7's behaviour?
Who is your top 3 picks for scum?
__________________________________

@Manito..

Whats your overview of K7's behaviour?
Who is your top 3 picks for scum?
__________________________________

@Corinthian..

Whats your overview of K7's behaviour?
Who is your top 3 picks for scum?
__________________________________

@Joubert, Bogre [or replacement}, Blacknight...

Whats your overview of K7's behaviour?
Who is your top 3 picks for scum?
_____________________________________________________

Firestarter · Post Post #722 (isolation #64) » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:16 am

Still waiting for the lurkers to answer my questions....

armlx wrote:
Corinthian wrote:
LG wrote: are you going to say most mafia players don't vote very often to begin with
In my experience on other sites, most of the time when there are still many players left, and multiple wagons, mafia players won't set themselves as the only vote against another player. Especially, you don't see scum starting wagons against other scum. Usually.
It definitely happens here.

You trying to tell us something...?

Firestarter · Post Post #725 (isolation #65) » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:45 am

armlx wrote:
Firestarter wrote:Still waiting for the lurkers to answer my questions....

armlx wrote:
Corinthian wrote:
LG wrote: are you going to say most mafia players don't vote very often to begin with
In my experience on other sites, most of the time when there are still many players left, and multiple wagons, mafia players won't set themselves as the only vote against another player. Especially, you don't see scum starting wagons against other scum. Usually.
It definitely happens here.
You trying to tell us something...?
Yawn, that was the exact post I expected you to make. Plz try again.

I guess you have it all worked out then....

...AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR

killa seven - 4 (TheSweatpantsNinja, Firestarter, Knight of Cydonia, SpyreX)
FaerieLord - 2 (Manito, Corinthian)
Manito - 2 (FaerieLord, LlamaFluff)
Firestarter - 2 (armlx, CF Riot)
armlx - 1 (LaptopGun)
LaptopGun - 1 (Bogre)

Not Voting - Joubert, killa seven, BlckKnght

15 alive, 8 to lynch.

-Flea

Firestarter · Post Post #734 (isolation #66) » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:49 am

armlx wrote:
I guess you have it all worked out then.... Rolling Eyes
What can I say, I see all the plays.

Where were you D1, eh???

Oh, thats right, voting Forbidden....

___________________________________________________________

But I do agree that this is BS, and WIFOM to boot...
___________________________________________________________

Now.. LTG.. You believe Im Town, yet you stick your

FoS

on me?
You also seem to have an inner argument with yourself as to what to believe with your last post....

I get the impression your Vote will fall on me soon, after the lead of your FoS...

After you called me town....

Right....

____________________________________________________________

Now, as for "hearing" me in a different manner, Im not sure exactly what you mean, please elaborate.

As for stating that occurences that armlx has brought up, they were 50/50.. I have not seen this disputed as of yet..
If someone has, then please show me!

____________________________________________________________

Ive attacked 4 different people this game....

K7...

I believe that K7 is scum at this time, due to the manner in which he is behaving in this game.

1. He sticks a vote on Forbidden as soon as I mention an ulterior motive for Forbiddens gambit.
2. Lack of scum hunting.
3. Lurking.
4. His failure to reply to any questions from anyone.
5. When he does show his face, his content is little.
I would invite anyone reading this to isolate K7's posts and take read of them..

I understand that because K7 has not been up to much in this thread, that people are overlooking him because of a lack of info from his lynch in D3. To me, thats bollox...
The evidence is there, and truly, Towns wants & needs are to lynch Scum.

armlx....

His posts were far and few between in D1. They contained no reasoning, but did contain promises of such, that never appeared, until I called him out on it. This is Fact.
Is it a coincidence that he is on full turbo now, after sitting D1 pretty much out and placing his vote on Forbidden?
Im not sure, because his play in D2 seems very townish, but it can also be comparable to a scumbag seeing an opportuntiy to lynch me.
I now see armlx in a different light than I did after our early exchanges in D2..
As for a read on him.. its 60/40 scum for me.

Gimbo...

As soon as he hammered Forbidden, I placed my vote on him for what remain 2 of the scummiest posts in this game, whichever way you look at it. The fact LF has replaced has, imo, saved Gimbo from lynching. That debate died a death too early as far as Im concerned.
But as LF was a replacement, he didn't get the heat those 2 posts from Gimbo deserved. Although LF has seemed townie to me since replacing, Gimbo has left a horrible sensation of "I got away with it", especially after his remark out of thread.

Ill make my point again, LF seems town to me, but GIMBO acted like a real dirtbag around the Forbidden lynch.

Forbidden...

She messed with a silly gambit, I was the only active player along with her at the time, I pressurised her, I got a town read from her.
I find it strange that people who voted her out after little or no scumhunting, and did not listen to what I said, i.e. remove their vote, and think the lynch over as I suggested.

Those same people have seen an opportunity to remove another town player from the game, for doing as town do.. Question, pressurise, and have the balls to remove their vote...

Am I the only one who finds this strange?

I urge town to read this thoroughly, everything is based on fact.

At this time...

1. K7.
2. armlx.

Firestarter · Post Post #740 (isolation #67) » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:15 pm

armlx wrote:Firestarter, are you ever gonna stop flip flopping on me? This scum - > bad townie when they make the case back - > scum read charade is the EXACT same thing you did D1.

Yup, I like to speak out loud..

Firestarter · Post Post #759 (isolation #68) » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:57 pm

QUICK NOTE

Outta town for a couple of days.
Ill post thoughts when back.
Possibly Monday.

Firestarter · Post Post #803 (isolation #69) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:52 am

armlx wrote:
Meta is bullcrap, especially with someone as... well, from what I'm seeing, batcrap-crazy as K7.
His actions are only crazy compared to a normal person. Compared to his own, they are quite logical right now.

And your gonna use this on the assumption that he's town, yeah???

Your forgetting the fact, that he could be using his meta as a scumbag too...
Forgetting or ignoring...

The fact is, in this thread, he is acting like scum, your ongoing belief that this is his meta says that you would also believe he is scum if you had no meta-read on him...

Based on this thread alone, BM, what are your thoughts on K7's play?

And do you think his play in this thread is less scummy than mine?

Firestarter · Post Post #805 (isolation #70) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:00 am

armlx wrote:Who do you want to respond to your last post Firestarter? Who is BM?

Its fairly obvious by looking at who I quoted who I was addressing....

The BM is from another game... apologies...

Now, in case you didn't cop it, its at you armlx....

Firestarter · Post Post #807 (isolation #71) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:06 am

Your calling his meta evidence???

Rubbish....

Firestarter · Post Post #809 (isolation #72) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:11 am

Save me the lecture... please..

Question, since we're talking about meta's...

Have you read my only previous completed game?

Firestarter · Post Post #811 (isolation #73) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:14 am

TBH, Im not really concerned if they do, but your viewing K7 as not being scum, citing his "meta" as evidence...

Firestarter · Post Post #813 (isolation #74) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:24 am

My point is fairly obvious armlx....

I dont consider meta's as "evidence" to anyones alignment in a different game, but you clearly do....

You didn't answer the following question correctly, BTW..

And do you think his play in

this thread

is less scummy than mine?

Firestarter · Post Post #815 (isolation #75) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:53 am

Again, your avoiding my question....

I asked about his behaviour in this thread, independent of any other.....

Firestarter · Post Post #817 (isolation #76) » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:29 pm

CF Riot wrote:Ok this has stopped being helpful discussion and is now bickering. FS refuses to see meta as relevant, there's no point in giving him reasons why it is. He just doesn't care. Armlx uses meta when he plays, so there's no point telling him not to for this one case because this is how he works. You disagree, just drop it.

CFR......

I dont see Meta as evidence that someone in a different game is of 1 alignment or the other... Very correct, and thank you for your observation...

What you have failed to observe is the point I was trying to make with armlx...

He is refusing point blank to answer a question Ive very clearly made...
Yet you dont mention this in your last post..

He is also basing his read on K7 with a Meta, yet both you and he have ignore my point through our recent exchange....
That is, has armlx read my only previously completed game??

If he had, he may have a different read on me, and I invite you to do so too CFR, seeing as you place some interest in Meta's with your dismissing remark about me not thinking they are relevant.

Im trying to make a point here, yet everytime I do, you, CFR, try to play it down, and change topic....

@armlx...

My question still stands about K7's behaviour in

THIS THREAD ONLY?

It seems you are unable to answer this without referring to his meta, yet you think Im scum without mine...

Firestarter · Post Post #848 (isolation #77) » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:52 am

Ok, Ive seen enough to change my vote.

At Least K7 is posting now

, but my suspicion of him is still extremely high....

UNVOTE: VOTE: CORINTHIAN...

I will keep my extremely keen

FoS

on

K7

for now, as even though he is posting, hes not doing enough to alleviate the pressure on him...

Firestarter · Post Post #863 (isolation #78) » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:34 am

CF Riot wrote:FS if you think Arm is dodging your questions it's not my responsibility to bust him for it. I don't think he was, but like I said it's your squabble not mine. I've never meta'd anyone in my life. I haven't even completed any games on this site either, so I'm the last person that needs to be making opinions based on how someone "usually" acts. I'd like to note that you're saying you don't like meta and want Armlx to disregard it for K7, but you're
asking
him to use it on you. ???

No, thats incorrect...

Ill be consistent with my play and not bother with meta's...

However, armlx is not being consistent if he is willing to clear K7 on his meta, and think Im scum without reading my previously completed game...

In any case, Im not bothered if he does or not....

_________________________________________________________

Im gonna echo Spyrex' post about meta's, they seem to be determining how this game is filled....

If we were to go on meta's, we'd only need 1 post each.

I prefer to play each game on its own merits, and not that of others.

Yes, they may help, but to clear/suspect anyone because of their meta is ludicrous....

Firestarter · Post Post #864 (isolation #79) » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:35 am

EBWOP...

Yes, they may help, but to clear/suspect anyone because of their meta is ludicrous....

Thats worded wrong....

To clear anyone on their meta is ludicrous, whereas suspecting someone from their meta has its merits.

Firestarter · Post Post #868 (isolation #80) » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:41 pm

armlx wrote:
However, armlx is not being consistent if he is willing to clear K7 on his meta, and think Im scum without reading my previously completed game...
K7 is an example of an EXTREME meta that vastly changes what is and isn't scummy behavior for him. Yours is CLEARLY not and to figure out what your specific scum/town tells are takes a lot larger sample size then 1 game, or even the 5 or so I have on K7.

If we were to go on meta's, we'd only need 1 post each.
False.

Ok, I see what your getting at with the first part of your post, but it still SHOULD NOT be a viable means to clear a player in a different game.
You see K7's meta as a viable reason to clear him, I dont buy it.

The 2nd part to your post...
Dont take what I said about a game having one post by every player serious, of course after each player picks the one person they believe to be scum based on their meta, a concensus would need to be reached, etc, etc, etc...
The point Im making is that there would be no point in playing this, if all anyone ever went on was someone's meta.

CF Riot wrote:
Firestarter wrote:No, thats incorrect...
Incorrect how?

Firestarter wrote:That is, has armlx read my only previously completed game??
If he had, he may have a different read on me
, and I invite you to do so too CFR, seeing as you place some interest in Meta's with your dismissing remark about me not thinking they are relevant.
You ARE asking him to meta you, with the reasoning that you hope it will change his mind about you. You ARE apparently at least a little bothered by whether he uses it.

Im not bothered by the fact my meta isn't being used by armlx, Im bothered that he's willing to clear K7 on his.

Do you agree with armlx regarding K7?

SpyreX wrote:I know we've went over this before, but if your meta is "being scummy" then your meta is worthless and can not be used as a shield.

What if I decided to never post more than one line and always throw the hammer down if I had the option. That -could- be a meta, but if it was I would be justified in getting killed for it a million times.

QFT...

Firestarter · Post Post #870 (isolation #81) » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:49 pm

If you feel it necessary, fire away.

Let me guess, you think Im scum based on that... surprise!

TBH, this meta-dance is wearing quite thin.

Firestarter · Post Post #872 (isolation #82) » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:10 pm

Oh, really?

_____________________

[Note the visible line Im drawing under this...]

Firestarter · Post Post #877 (isolation #83) » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:09 pm

armlx wrote:
Firestarter wrote:Oh, really?

_____________________

[Note the visible line Im drawing under this...]
Does this mean something? Show me where in that game you did the things I am attacking you for here, which could imply that they are not scummy behaviors by your meta.

Why?
What will you hope to prove?
Are you really gonna base every assumption on a player, or try to strengthen what "you already think" based on a meta?

If you think something in another game will help you improve a lynch/push, by all means, post away... But your quite literally barking up the wrong tree on this.

How many games have you played here???

Im sure that any one player can go back and check all of your games, and if they want, contrive play to match whats happening here, or find opposite play when you were town....

I, am not going to bother....

Firestarter · Post Post #882 (isolation #84) » Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:55 am

armlx wrote:
What will you hope to prove?
Are you really gonna base every assumption on a player, or try to strengthen what "you already think" based on a meta?
Simple. What I am doing with K7's meta to protect him is pointing out how the things he is doing right now aren't necessarily things that he does more often as scum. If you can prove that, the tells no longer apply and can be ignored in an attack as null tells.

They are only null tells if you believe 100% that the accused is town.. You cannot possibly know this if you are town, and given K7's play, he is more scummier than town.
A Meta is not 100%, and I'd prefer if you didn't jump to "protect him" as you say, it seems every attack on him has you following with your comments...

...protecting him
.. I dont like this.

How many games have you played here???
Somewhere between 50 and 100.

Ok

Im sure that any one player can go back and check all of your games, and if they want, contrive play to match whats happening here, or find opposite play when you were town....
If they do that, I simply site games Y and Z where they are wrong.

As can anyone attacking K7, they can cite games where he hasn been scum and played like this... if he has.

My point is interpretation, you interpret K7's play in this thread as town based on other games, 5 games wasn't it, have you actually looked at the games you did not play in involving K7?
Theres also the idea he has seen you were in the game, done a meta on you, and seen that you "do" metas on players, and has adapted his playstyle to that of a townie in other games he played with you...
This is equally possible to him being town based on a meta...
Its interpretation, and I dont like how you are so lenient on 1 player because of it.
The fact remains K7 has acted very scummy in this thread as opposed to others... No amount of meta can change this.

Firestarter · Post Post #889 (isolation #85) » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:16 am

armlx wrote: You don't have to believe someone is town for something to be a null tell.
If you come in on page 50 and start citing someone who has done numerous scummy things all game as being scummy for "random voting", its fair to say that is a null tell.

Im agreed on this point, but its not the case with K7 in here.

The reason for every attack having my comments is because I have yet to see an attack that is not disrupted by his meta.

But the whole point of my attacks are to gauge the named player, your input, although welcome in parts, stops input from the named player from being posted.

As can anyone attacking K7, they can cite games where he hasn been scum and played like this... if he has.

_________________________________________________________

I am merely interpreting it as not scummy enough to lynch, not town or scum necessarily, which means that a lynch on him is essentially random aka poor idea right now.

Not random, its that you dont believe in the reasons given from the players voting/suspecting him.

It very much falls on the interpretation of different players views.

However, Im liking the Corinthian wagon alot more at this point.

Firestarter · Post Post #917 (isolation #86) » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:19 am

armlx wrote:Full Corin eval coming tonight/tomorrow, 3rd priority thing among games.
armlx wrote:mlx"]Corin analysis coming tonight.

Isn't it strange that of all the times youve promised to post anything on anyone, you have failed to do so, except when I attacked you... you posted on me...

More empty promises from you...

Whats your reasons that you dont see Corin scummy?

Firestarter · Post Post #933 (isolation #87) » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:25 am

armlx wrote:You are reading WAY too much into the things people are saying in jest.

Says armlx, who reads WAY too much into peoples meta's....

Seriously, do you actually want to lynch anyone???

Why do you feel it necessary to defend everyone who gets posed a question/attacked, etc, etc..?

Let them answer for themselves, otherwise we get nowhere....

Firestarter · Post Post #936 (isolation #88) » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:49 pm

armlx wrote:
When one mafia goes down, the other ones would probably want to make sure neither of themselves come under scrutiny.
I get what you are trying to say, but aren't the mafia ALWAYS trying to do that?

So, in your opinion, armlx, how do those rats try to avoid scrutiny?

Firestarter · Post Post #943 (isolation #89) » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:21 am

armlx wrote:
So, in your opinion, armlx, how do those rats try to avoid scrutiny?
Don't act in a manner that isn't pro-town, unless doing so is possible to work around and puts their group significantly closer to a win.

So, is everyone playing here, apart from me in your eyes, acting pro-town?

Firestarter · Post Post #945 (isolation #90) » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:24 am

I agree.... 100%

So who, from the ones you think are pretending, is high on your list?

Of course, with the exception of me!

Firestarter · Post Post #948 (isolation #91) » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:25 pm

armlx wrote:
So who, from the ones you think are pretending, is high on your list?
I still stand by my earlier comment on this matter.

So that would be me, the lurkers and CFR???

Am I correct?

Firestarter · Post Post #952 (isolation #92) » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:35 am

armlx wrote:
So that would be me, the lurkers and CFR???
Exactly.

I dont believe Ive seen anything in the way of lurkers or CFR from you...

Firestarter · Post Post #956 (isolation #93) » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:26 pm

LaptopGun wrote:Firestarter, I mean you said something a mafia player would want to happen. Seems like a slipup to me. That in my mind says you are mafia.

@ LTG...

What is this post in relation to?

Firestarter · Post Post #962 (isolation #94) » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:02 am

armlx wrote:
I dont believe Ive seen anything in the way of lurkers or CFR from you...
They are pretty far down the list of scuminess compared to you.

Well, of course...

Firestarter · Post Post #977 (isolation #95) » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:46 am

CF Riot wrote:
StrangerCoug wrote:We're still split on killa seven vs. Corinthian right now, and I agree that both are scummy. I ask everybody in this game: Which of those two do you feel is scummier: K7 or Corin?
Don't either/or the town. I think KoC and FS both look far scummier than either of these people. If you held me down and forced me to pick between those two I'd vote Corin, but as the majority of the town is either split between them or unconvinced of both, I say we drop them today and find someone more people like.

If I remember right, more than a few people said FS was suspicious but none of them had a vote on him. We're all frustrated about the current wagons being stuck in stasis and FS continues to look scummy to me, so why don't we try him on for size today and pick up on K7 and Corin tomorrow after we see what the mafia does?

Also, if that plan doesn't fly, if it comes down to a lurker vote I'm throwing one at Joubert.

I find myself repeating myself again when it comes to you CFR....

When someone else looks like their gonna be lynched, you pop up, and suggest me for a lynch... everytime... without fail... scuppering progress on lynching 1 of 2 lurkers, 1 of 2 who have contributed very little other than token posts here and there... and 1 of 2 that are by far scummier than anyone else.

Have you even looked at the other guys who happen to have the most votes right now?

Firestarter · Post Post #979 (isolation #96) » Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:36 pm

@ LTG once more...

Firestarter wrote:
LaptopGun wrote:Firestarter, I mean you said something a mafia player would want to happen. Seems like a slipup to me. That in my mind says you are mafia.
@ LTG...

What is this post in relation to?

?

Firestarter · Post Post #985 (isolation #97) » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:05 am

CF Riot wrote: @FS: Who looks like they're about to be lynched? K7 and Corin have both been around these numbers for a while and not many people look like they're about to sway. Are you asking if I've looked at those two, or if I've looked at the other people on the vote count after them? I've given an opinion on both K7 and Corin if that's what you're asking.

Either K7 or Corin... as stated above, there are alot of votes on both of them. My vote is on Corin at the moment, that wont change unless we are almost at deadline, and if there is a better chance of K7 being lynched, and my vote is required to do so, I will, as I get scum reads from both of them, just more from Corin right now.

As for asking everyone to remove me, who BTW, has had to deal with the same shit over & over again regarding the "No Lynch" post, is ridiculous, considering alot of players find 2 players more scummy than me...

In relation to the no lynch post, and what I was reffering to afterwards, saying it was a bad move then....
At the time, I was very very noobish, and did not see so much crap coming from what I did. Im playing in multiple games now, and am only beginning to see the mechanics to MS.

Yes, it was a bad move by me, because of the said crap that followed me afterwards, and still does.

But the main proponents of the hunt on me.. have been lynched, and Ive helped in that... ZS & SG.

Apart from the no lynch post, I dont see why you have a vote on me.

Firestarter · Post Post #1007 (isolation #98) » Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:52 am

The List wrote: armlx -> Firestarter, CF Riot, K7
Joubert
killa seven
FaerieLord -> Corin, Manito, Firestarter
SpyreX -> FaerieLord, Firestarter, K7
LlamaFluff -> Corin, Manito, KoC

Firestarter -> Corin, K7, Manito

CF Riot
Corinthian - K7, FaerieLord, Firestarter
LaptopGun -> armlx, Corin, Joubert/KoC
Knight of Cydonia
TheSweatpantsNinja -> Corin, Firestarter, K7
orangepenguin -> killa7, FaerieLord, KoC/Corin
Manito
StrangerCoug -> Corinthian, killa seven, FaerieLord

I would have had armlx in 3rd place a week back, but there are other fish to fry before him, imo.

Oh, and apologies on my last post, tooooo many people are in the same games as me

Firestarter · Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:20 am

Apologies for not being present lately, Ive had alot of work in RL to contend with, will hope to get back on track in 48 hours..

Firestarter · Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:04 pm

Can we have an updated "list" please?

Firestarter · Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:13 am

SpyreX wrote: At this point, voting for anyone but the two of them is exactly the same as not-voting - I'd much rather see us push this through to a real lynch instead of a deadline one.

QFT..

We can garner info from votes

And I also see merit in LF looking for the quadruple set to contribute...

Firestarter · Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:17 am

CF Riot wrote:What info could you gain from a real lynch that you couldn't from a deadline lynch? And now that you've brought it up yourself Spyre, I've been wondering, why
are
you voting your number 3 pick, instead of maybe FS? Corin only has 6 votes at this point, and there are that many people who would like FS lynched as well. I'm proposing the theory that some of the people putting FS on their 3 pick list are doing it for show, and are scum. They don't actually want him lynched, but rather would like to say they want him lynched to avoid suspicion from people like Arm and I.

And now I see as I write this, Arm is of the opposite opinion. (sigh)

1. Why the sigh at the end?
2. Are you gonna place a vote on one of the 2 lynch leaders?
3. If not, why not, given that a vote will gain info?

Firestarter · Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:19 pm

CF Riot wrote:
I wouldn't gain any info if I voted for one of them, so I'm not going to. I don't think anyone else would, but even if they did it'd leave me at a disadvantage so it's still a reason not to.
Far more importantly than those side reasons, I think neither of them is scum.

@ CFR..

Please explain the bolded part, its highly contradictory and does not make sense to me...

Firestarter · Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:44 am

SpyreX wrote: The only way this outcome is going to be absolutely bad is if they BOTH are town and tomorrow we do the exact same thing and end up lynching the other. Otherwise, as long as we learn from this and be more proactive then we wont run into the issue again.

QFT...

There have been too many passengers in tis game, tbh.
A small minority have been scumhunting while others have simply coat-tailed arguments.

Regardless of the outcome today, town must work harder.

This, however, does not take from the fact that both Corin ^ K7 have exhibited more scum vibes than anyone else...

After all, they would not be in the position they are in if they did not.

@CFR..
I seen your replies, they make sense to an extent.
I would, however, prefer to see you commit a vote on one of the, at this time, certain lynchees.

That goes for pretty much everyone else who has votes elsewhere.

Firestarter · Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:57 pm

CF Riot wrote:
Firestarter wrote:@CFR..I would, however, prefer to see you commit a vote on one of the, at this time, certain lynchees.
No.

Voting = Lynches...
Lynches = Information.

Your non-commital to either offers the rest of us no info from you, have you simply forgotten that there is a deadline approaching?

As it stands 11 players have votes on either Corin or K7.

Are they all scum?
Are they all wrong?
Or do they simply have a say in who should be lynched from the scummiest 2 players?

All you have done today, CFR, is try to get me lynched..... you have been on the coat-tail of BM since he replaced in, echoing, and posting right after him...
Thats what it looks like to me.

Why do you continue to be unable to look past me, since the majority of players here have done, even BM?

BTW, what info could town/scum retrieve from you if you placed a vote on either player that would leave you at a disadvantage, considering 11 other players have votes there, and all {assuming all are town} would be at that same "disadvantage"?

Firestarter · Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:48 am

Again, apologies for the wrong name... it was armlx I was reffering to...

Ok, I see where you stand here CFR.

But you not voting for one of them can/will leave you at a disadvantage also.

Firestarter · Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:02 am

I also need a reread, and I will be taking a deeper look into why LTG has been NK'd..
Who may have attacked him, but more importantly, those who distanced themselves from him.

That will come soon.

Firestarter · Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:25 am

Knight of Cydonia wrote:
Also, saying that you were in favour of a town lynch is really scummy
- at least I wanted to lynch because I thought she was scum.

@ KOC..

The bolded part, direct us to where FL said/meant/otherwise that..

Firestarter · Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:17 am

Yeah, Ill have content soon, just sorting through RL at the moment

Firestarter · Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:01 am

In case anyone hasn't seen my sig, Im gone for a while, I cannot commit to games, and I require replacing.

As for this game...

Pfft.. Armlx & CF have done well to get me where I am at the moment...

But I'd seriously be considering one of those, if I was present at the moment, that is,

after I flip town.

Best of luck to my fellow townies, your being lead around the block on this!!!

Firestarter · Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:12 am

While Im here, letting all & sundry know Ill be gone indefinitly, I may as well laugh at your 2nd "I told you so post""......

Your becoming a real expert at this stage

BTW armlx....

How is my letting town know who to look at after Im lynched, OMGUS???
I mean, for it to be OMGUS, I'd have to flip town first, right??

Hmmmm... Town take note!

Instead, Ill let my replacement, if not dead already with your scum propaganda beforehand, decide where to place that vote.

But hey, your the expert, and I'd imagine this character will be killed off before the replacement gets to page 3!!

Best of luck guys!!!

Firestarter · Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:11 am

As stated, Im back.....

Will post later this evening..

Me needs a re-read!

Firestarter · Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:42 am

Firestarter wrote:Pfft.. Armlx & CF have done well to get me where I am at the moment...
But I'd seriously be considering one of those, if I was present at the moment, that is, after I flip town.
Best of luck to my fellow townies, your being lead around the block on this!!!

armlx wrote:
Yeah, thats about what I thought. Appeal to emotion up the wazoo (the townie part, not the leaving part), OMGUS, etc.

Firestarter wrote:BTW armlx....

How is my letting town know who to look at after Im lynched, OMGUS???
I mean, for it to be OMGUS, I'd have to flip town first, right??

armlx wrote:No, its you trying to look town pre-lynch to convince people to swap to an alternative wagon.
Happens a LOT.

Looking back, I cant let go of this exchange before I left earlier....

@ armlx...

how on earth was I trying to get people to change their vote just BEFORE I left the game???
Its a lame reply, and something no-one picked up on...

The 2 bolded quotes stick out for me after you initially poked fun at my suspicious players in the game, you being one of them...

You say Im OMGUS'ing, yet I took my vote from whoever it was on at the time, and did not place it on either you or "the also mentioned" CFR....

I stated who I thought was suspicious as my parting gift, as at that stage, it seemed I was likely to be lynched. A dead townie's past posts can be quite useful!

I based my reply to you on me being lynched... and you saying it was OMGUS, is to me, a freudian slip.
IMO, you based your "OMGUS" post on me being lynched also, and you KNOWING Im gonna flip town

Both your replies are very generalised......

"Yeah, thats about what I thought. Appeal to emotion up the wazoo (the townie part, not the leaving part), OMGUS, etc."
"No, its you trying to look town pre-lynch to convince people to swap to an alternative wagon. Happens a LOT."

The 2 posts are lazy, generic of a situation, and an awful attempt to brush off a very valid point I made...

VOTE: armlx

At this moment, Im thinking at least 2 of 3 from armlx, CFR & SC being scum.

Firestarter · Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:32 pm

armlx wrote:

I really dont see what a PBPA of K7 will accomplish or why it is necessarily going to play a factor in your decision of who you will be voting for.
This. A vote track would be good though.

The 2 posts are lazy, generic of a situation, and an awful attempt to brush off a very valid point I made...
Which valid point? The 100% OMGUS one? The appeal to emotion? What I said is definitely a valid analysis of your post.

100% OMGUS.. I dont think so..

CFR has blindly tried to get me lynched for god knows how long now, and has generally ignored everyone else.

You have supplemented this with your posts, basically both of you stating that "your happy" with where your votes are.

Its a horrible thing to say, but Im gonna say it regardless....

I know what alignment I am, and both your pursuit to see me lynched is one track, singleminded scuminess...

Apart from some scatter posting here & there, neither of you have relented in the pursuit to lynch me... yet no one else sees it.
But you both have scrutinised the others for not sticking a vote on me, not seeing your case..

On the same note, neither of you have realistically looked at anyone else... I dont recall seeing FoS's, nor votes, but I will stand corrected if there was.

Its simple logic really...

I may ahve stood out as an easy target earlier on, and scum made a decision to lynch me... I really feel that at least one, if not both of you are scum. I also have a sneaky suspicion about SC being scum also.

SC has been rather reluctant to do anything over the last few pages, and although you've both lighlty questioned him, I see this as at least one of you bussing him.

As for my so called "OMGUS"...
I really cant see why you would even consider this, as I was out of this game some time back. I simply added what I was thinking before leaving this game.

The fact Im now here is because scum could not succesfully get town to lynch me...

BTW, what reasons do you have for voting me anyway,

I'd like a recap from those who have done...

Firestarter · Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:35 pm

So, CFR, your gonna push my wagon without a case, on a hunch.. so to speak?

Yet youve posted a case on KoC.....

You can kinda see where Im going with this, cant ya...

What you have consistently done throughout this game is ask others if they found me scummy, if they find any others more scummier than me, and why they haven't voted for me based on answers to those questions....

Yet all you have is a hunch!!!!!

I clearly chose the wrong one of my 2 suspects to place a vote on right now, and your last post gives me enough vindication to do this...

UNVOTE...
VOTE: CF Riot

If the best you can come up with for lynching me after 56 pages is a hunch, then you deserve to be lynhced. You've hounded me all game long.....with nothing!!

Firestarter · Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:14 am

I take it then, you haven't even bothered reading my reasoning for voting CFR then....

OMGUS is such an awful post to make, except in circumstances when the voter doesn't actually back it up with any reasoning...

Knight of Cydonia wrote: Any qualms I might have had before just evaporated like pee on hot tarmac at midday.

Is that because Ive also got you as a possibility with one of the 2 Ive voted for since coming back?

Regardless, youve had a vote on me for a while now....
BTW, what qualms did you have beforehand KOC?

Firestarter · Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:53 am

Knight of Cydonia wrote:Prior to that, I would have unvoted you if there was a chance of a K7 lynch, Firestarter. Now I'm willing to have you both lynched.

Prior to "that" you had your vote on me, your not gonna get a K7 lynch with a vote on me, then or now...

So, what were you waiting for, someone else to make the case?

Firestarter · Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:35 am

In all fairness, in that game, as well as the others I was involved in, including this one.. I wasn't around too much to participate anyways.

Regardless, I still feel CFR is scum.....

Im looking at armlx, Koc, or SG as a possible partner or 2... depending on how many scum we have left.

I also have a horrible sensation that K7 is getting away with doing nothing, and falling further under his meta to avoid scrutiny...
But for that very reason, he is drawing no thunder...

Firestarter · Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:36 am

Indeed, I meant SC..

Although my list may be noteworthy for the fact that those players are voting me, the other fact, thats clear to me, is that the others aren't as scummy as the players Ive mentioned.

As for asking me why I'd connect you with KoC, its not as easy as saying I think you may be a pair... Its a distinct possibility for me....

Your voting pattern is..

K7
Forbiddenlight
K7
Firestarter
Firestarter

Yet, its very attainable that you've posted more content, case building wise, on KoC...... yet, I didn't even see a FoS to his name from you....

Now look at the case on me, or as admitted by you...

NO CASE

....

At a push, I would say you've bussed KoC thus far...

In fact, there is one post of yours, containing 1 particular line, bolded in orange, that you think Koc & I are scum....

Again.... you built a case on KoC, did not on me, yet are voting for me...

I think your scum, and KoC may well be a scum buddy...

Firestarter · Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:53 am

CF Riot wrote:I don't mechanically lay out FoSes like they're a pre-vote requirement. I think a huge orange banner would mean a little more than telling everyone I'm pointing an imaginary finger at somebody.

I did not ask for you to FoS anyone, the lack of any is worth noting, however.

Question, if I was lynched and flipped town, would you still pursue KoC?
If KoC was lynched town would you still pursue me?

I dont intend to play games with you, Ill make decisions when decisions need to be made. And Ill base it on what I see.

And since you're throwing so much crap at me about not having a case on you, do you have a case on anyone? Arm's is the only one I remember, yet you said you dropped it because you thought he was town. Although I didn't lay out my own opinions of all your posts, I've read the posts between you and Arm when he made his case, and your responses come off with you looking very scummy. You try for a very long time to ignore the case, then when you did respond almost none of your counter-points refuted what Arm had said. I also had a hunch that you were waiting out the first part of this day to see how everyone else would act before you gave any opinions, that way you could align with the majority and not stand out. That seemed like what you would do after being on the fl lynch and the Corin lynch. You blamed this on RL, so it sort of took that argument from me because I don't know if it was or not.

First of all, do you honestly think I'd quit all the games Im in, just to use it as foothold in 1 game? Seriously??
Secondly, you say my responses are scummy in my exchange with armlx... Which responses would they be?
Im not telepathic, and I imagine neither are the rest of the players.....
And yes, I have a case on you.

----
SC explain to me why 1425 is so interesting. And before you all go off thinking I'm just voting FS for no reason at all, saying I didn't make a case on him does not mean one does not exist.

BUT you have voted for me without any reasons, except the "I think he's scum, he's looked scummy, what do you all think of FS, does he look any scummier than so & so..."

The fact does remain that you've hunted for my lynch for as long as I can remember in this game.... without as much as compiling a case....
You have repeatedly asked other players what they think of me, why they're not voting me, who else would they consider as scummy as me...
But you have the gall to omit a case, or give any reasons yourself....

You have coat tailed other peoples arguments, and have seen a chance to get rid of a townie....
Which you've pushed extremely hard since your first vote on me...

If you still think its OMGUS... then good for you...

Firestarter · Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:58 pm

Think to yourself. When did I say I suspected you?

How many people were voting with me when I started pushing your lynch? If I was pushing an easy lynch, there are much easier alternatives.

Now, when did you begin to suspect me? Who are your other top suspects? Give me one reason you have for voting me that has nothing to do with you, and I won't say OMGUS.

Hmmm... the bolded part...sounds eerily familiar, doesn't it...

If FS flips town, I'm going to be severely peeved that I went through all this trouble now.

Peeved, and hugely under suspicion...

OK.. No matter what I say, anywhere.. it will be considered OMGUS...

Because Im attacking a player(s), who has/have votes on me...

The fact, as Ive already stated, is that I do not find the others as scummy as you... Nor do you consider those same players scummier than me...

BTW, it would help why you consider posts scummy, rather than linking to them, again, I'd like to re-iterate, that were not telepathic CFR... Linking to posts DOES NOT constitute a case imo..

My case on you right now is in 1426 & 1427...

@ SC.. what info on me do you have...

OMGUS

???
And your last post makes no sense at all... You say your unsure of who's scum, yet you change your vote to me at the drop of a hat, or at CFR's will....

Firestarter · Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:01 pm

EBWOP >>>>

* 1426 & 1447

Firestarter · Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:19 pm

StrangerCoug wrote:
Firestarter wrote:@ SC.. what info on me do you have...
OMGUS
???
What are your cases on the people you suspect?

If you look hard enough, you can find an answer to that question in my previous post...

Now, answer my question please..

Firestarter · Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:40 am

CF Riot wrote:
Riot wrote:Give me one reason you have for voting me that has nothing to do with you, and I won't say OMGUS.
Firestarter wrote:OK.. No matter what I say, anywhere.. it will be considered OMGUS...
This is fail. You can't give a reason because you don't have one.

Ive given reasons, and they've been considered OMGUS... so its far from fail, because the only crap reasons anyone has on me is OMGUS....

CF Riot wrote:
Firestarter wrote:
Riot wrote:How many people were voting with me when I started pushing your lynch? If I was pushing an easy lynch, there are much easier alternatives.
Hmmm... the bolded part...sounds eerily familiar, doesn't it...
Explain.

Do I really need to? Ok, Ill simplifiy it for you...
How many people are voting you?
Wouldn't it be easier for me to vote KoC right now, considering how many people are at the moment?
Yet you dont see anything familiar?

CF Riot wrote:
Firestarter wrote:The fact, as Ive already stated, is that I do not find the others as scummy as you... Nor do you consider those same players scummier than me...
But you have no reason to find me scummy at all. What is the point of the second sentence?

Well, who else are you looking at???
KoC, Sc to a degree???
More or less the same Los as me...

CF Riot wrote:
Firestarter wrote:BTW, it would help
[if you explained]
why you consider posts scummy, rather than linking to them.
They are in the posts I linked of my responses. The way you switched your vote from armlx to K7 right after posting a case against arm is scummy because you abandon it for no reason and then try not to respond to his case against you. The way you hopped from K7 to Corin when momentum was changing between them was scummy too.

Way to go.... did I actually do anything different from what Ive been doing all game when voting Corin??? I would have backed either a K7 or Corin lynch at that time, it turned out to be Corin..
And it wasn't just a case of hopping from one to the other... the K7 lynch was going nowhere, and I believe there was a deadline, was there not?? I simply used my vote on one of 2 I wanted lynched at that time, as I stated in posts before the lynch...
As for you, your non-commital to anyone at that time is far more noteworthy...
You even said yourself that you would not place a vote at that time because it

"would leave you at a disadvantage

"...

CF Riot wrote:
Firestarter wrote:My case on you right now is in 1426 & 1447...
Then you have no case. 26 is just saying you think I'm busing KoC (alignment yet unknown) because I posted a case on him but am voting you. Not a scum tell. 47, all you are saying there is I'm pushing your lynch without a good reason so I'm scum. That is the definition of OMGUS, and I already gave you my reasons for voting you.

So, me saying that you are bussing Koc, and believing that you are voting me for no other reason than a hunch (see previous CFR posts - Ill find it if anyone wants me to) is not a case????

Its far stronger than your case on me...

Firestarter · Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:09 am

CF Riot wrote:FS I'm about done arguing with you. I've proven I have more than a hunch on you. It's supra weak to use bussing KoC as a tell
because you don't know if KoC is scum or not.
Me staying off the Corin/K7 duel will only be scummy if K7 is proven scum. Your logic is so screwed it is hard to explain why it is wrong.

@ the bolded part...

You seem pretty darn sure I dont know if KoC is scum or not...

Slip up much?

Firestarter · Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:12 pm

armlx wrote:
But you arent voting remember, meta made you unvote
Notice the "was". That said, the meta has only made him go down the list, not disappear.

So, who's top of your list now?

Firestarter · Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:40 am

Firestarter · Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:58 pm

CF Riot wrote:
Firestarter wrote:KoC.
Hmm? What happened to Armlx?

Nothing.... he's still up there... but not as much as you...

As for KoC, Ive tied him to you, its a natural 2nd pick now.

Firestarter · Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:51 am

Firestarter wrote: Nothing.... he's still up there... but not as much as you...

As for KoC, Ive tied him to you, its a natural 2nd pick now.

Firestarter · Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:53 am

Im skilled scum now?

And Im not for bargaining with others either...
I never struck a deal with CFR about your lynching....

You also say Im the most OMGUSY person here...
Does that implicitly imply Im scum if it is the case?

Why is it, that when anyone tries to justify voting for me, they reply with..
"I think he's the most OMGUS player.."...

No case... just OMGUS?

An easy lynch will occur, thats all, and the rest of town should be pushing these players with votes as to what their cases are..

So far, with CFR, all he has done is provided links... Useless.

Now KoC, with his OMGUS rant...

Firestarter · Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:55 am

as Ive said, if it was OMGUS, fair enough...

But I have tied CFR to KoC, its what I beleive...

Speaking about what I believe....

Some are saying Im only going on feeling, this is correct..
But aren't all town players going on feeling?

I mean, I cant be confident of being right, nor can the rest of town, yet KoC states in his last post that Im only going on feeling...

KoC, what are you going on???

Firestarter · Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:15 am

Because it wasn't OMGUS on my part, but Ive said this till I was blue in the face.

If others want to call it OMGUS, then fair enough...

Firestarter · Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:20 pm

Yup.... KoC likes his flavour of the day alright.... switching to "lynchables" when he can...

Im not gonna get a CFR lynch today, but Im happy to help lynch his buddy.

UNVOTE..
VOTE: Knight of Cydonia.

@ Manito...
1-10, how scummy do you think Koc has been, given your last statement....
And..
Are you saying that armlx has been

just

as scummy as Koc?
If so.. whats your case?

Firestarter · Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:52 am

SpyreX wrote:Well, that honestly isn't that surprising. However, lets take a look at the votes.

Vote: FS

FoS: Orange Penguin

Wanted to know who'd be a good scumpartner for FS? Hint, its you.

If you were Town, I would say your being very blaise about this whole voting thing, Spyrex.....

You had a vote on me for some time, and as soon as the hammer presents itself, you do not hesitate to drop it... Not even waiting for a claim..

Now, thats basing it on you being town.

But there was a game I played with you recently, Ill find it and post a link, where the last thing you'd have done was drop the hammer like that....
Its against a town meta I have from you... Big time.

From the hammer, to your first post, post-hammer, and through the meta-read, you are behaving somewhat disgustingly scummy.

VOTE: Spyrex

Firestarter · Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:12 am

@ Spyrex...

Yes, the call for a claim is misguided considering theres only town & scum.

But when KoC had the 2nd from lynch vote, it was mentioned in the post as..
(b)lynch minus one(/b) if Im not mistaken.

On my limited time on MS that usually signifies that the lynchee should speak out, and make a last plea for survival...
In a game with LF, I was one from lynch, and was left room for a plea...
I succesfully negotiated that hurdle, and caught scum, and was town.

Im not basing any meta on JUST you laying a hammer down...
In the other game, you were much more methodical in your approach to votes/lynches, in this game, you are the oppposite, regardless of the type of game it is.

As for meta, it wasn't something I was prepared to look at early on in my time on MS, but everyone seems to be using it...
I may have been a bit naive when I said I wasn't one for meta, but Ive played a game with you, and I can see benefits of it.

The first benefit has to do with you Spyrex, and your very noticeable difference in playstyle in this game to the other.

You play for the hammer, and your subsequent post after KoC was revealed as town is really scummy in my eyes, and dare I say it, one of the MOST scummy plays in this game to date.
Didn't you say something along the lines of

"Im not surprised"

, referring to KoC's alignment????
Thats real scummy....

And now you've gone and hopped on the 2nd most popular wagon pre-lynch...

Not only that, but you've been very clever with your appearances into the thread, I would say you've done enough to go unnoticed however...
Again, this is in direct contradiction to the last game I played with you, you posted alot more frequently, and alot more constructively....

BTW, the hammer you speak of in that game, Polygamist mafia, that you dropped, you told all and sundry that you would be doing that if the hammer was there, about 24 hours prior to doing so...
What you did here, again, is completely different to what your stating...
It simply was NOT the same thing.

@ CFR...
My theory of you bussing Koc was wrong....
But my problem at the time, was that you failed to see any scuminess/failed to act on KoC... He was being scum-tastic at times.

Ive now a new target I wish to pursue however.. you can now sleep peaceful at night knowing this..... For now.

Firestarter · Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:07 pm

armlx wrote:I think SpyreX wins here given the OMGUS.

Vote FS

Christ... here we go again....

Firestarter · Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:41 am

SpyreX wrote:Now, you mention that I said I wasn't surprised. I wasn't. It was obvious that wagon came on too fast from too many directions with no new reasons for the lynch for me to think it was a sure-fire scumhit. However, was KoC scummy? Sure was. Would KoC being alive have helped? Only as a body, but more as a perfect distraction for the scum on later days - we still have some eggs we can break for this omlete and I have no problem nailing scummy players.

So, with days left before the deadline, you went ahead and hammered someone you would not have been surprised to flip town...

Why would you do that seeing as the first 3 hits were town, and now find ourselves meandering closer to a scum win???

Firestarter · Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:25 pm

SpyreX wrote:Now, if you got lynched and come up town I WOULD be surprised. Or, if armlx or CFR came up scum. Those would be honestly surprising developments to me. KoC being town? Not so much.

In retrospect, your hammer is exactly what scum would do, progress and see through the double day, take town down, Nightkill, Voila!!

Im not buying this "turbolynch" if Im honest, the hallmarks of scum are written all over it, and even more so after 2 of your posts, post-lynch, said you weren't surprised that KoC was town..

The reasoning your offering why you would hammer someone you obviously thought of as more town than scum at the time you hammered doesn't stand up with me.

_______________________________________________________

And armlx.. please try harder...

armlx wrote:
FS, SC, FL. Same as yesterday.

I support SpyreX's hammer 100%.

Firestarter · Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:19 pm

armlx wrote:
And armlx.. please try harder...
I don't get it. You assume because I haven't changed my mind, I haven't looked?

I haven't assumed anything, because your posts are devoid of anything to make assumptions from...

But if you HAVE looked, than alternate information other than your norm would be appreciated... by all.

1600 - THIS. IS. FIVE AND A THIRD TIMES MORE EFFECTIVE THAN SPARTA

SpyreX - 3 (Firestarter, orangepenguin, StrangerCoug)
Firestarter - 2 (SpyreX, armlx)
Manito - 1 (LlamaFluff)
FaerieLord - 1 (Manito)
StrangerCoug - 1 (TheSweatpantsNinja)

Not voting - Joubert, killa seven, FaerieLord, CF Riot

12 alive, 7 to lynch.

-Mod

Firestarter · Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:54 am

@ Spyrex..

Given your last post, why are you not voting K7 then?

He is as useful as an underwater hairdryer right now, and given how you reasoned the lynch of KoC, I cant see why your vote is anywhere but on K7...

Firestarter · Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:56 am

EBWOP..

When I say your last post, I meant the one before the one you posted at the same time I posted mine...

Firestarter · Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:36 am

A Power Jump on KoC's wagon...
You have gotta be kidding me with that statement..
Coming from the Power-Hammerer yourself.

I feel your getting a bit desperate now Spyrex with that last post.

Everyone look at Firestarter, see how Omgusy he is, etc, etc....

To be honest, since you recieved your first vote in this game, you have prepped up 500%....

Is it mere coincidence that your posting after KoC's lynch has shot up several levels...?
Is it simply that your no longer in the comfort zone you were in up to this day?

Is it simply, that I may be onto something?

I know youv'e posted in one post that your "enthusiasm" for this game has perked since, surprisingly enough, your first vote!!
No need to make mention of this however, its duly noted.

Firestarter · Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:40 am

SpyreX wrote:Why am I not voting K7? Because, although I want him dead for his play - I've been more certain of your scumminess since forever. There's a decent chance he's lurker scum, however, due to your play and your waspish and unfounded OMGUS attacks
on my vote on you
you have been a much better candidate.

Aw, hope I didn't hurt that proud ego Spyrex...

This is no different to what others have tried to get me lynched for, why do you

NOW

feel it so necessary to shout it out at the top of your lungs, when you didn't exhibit the same while I voted others, apparently for the same reason?

Firestarter · Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:18 am

TheSweatpantsNinja wrote:
fs wrote: A Power Jump on KoC's wagon...
You have gotta be kidding me with that statement..
Coming from the Power-Hammerer yourself.
In your opinion, what is the difference in scumminess between spyrex's hammer and you putting KoC at L-1?

You'd be better off asking the actual player who placed KoC at -1.....

It wasn't me...

Firestarter · Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:26 am

Right now... I have 2 main suspects...

1. Spyrex
2. K7

Spyrex has been getting very emotional since his first vote was placed on his shoulders, and has increasingly got involved in the game since...
Before, he was very happy to go with the flow, and post what can be deemed necessary at certain times.
His hammer, the way he did it, and his subsequent posts all bother me..
Not to mention his instant eturn to the 2nd favoured votee, me, right after KoC's lynching.
Ive also given way to my thinking on Meta simply because I didn't have enough gametime in MS to understand that it has benefits.
I see a clear difference in the approach Spyrex has made to this game than the last I played with him.

K7, IMO, its ridiculous he's gotten so far in this game....
He has done barely enough to be described as a player here.
Lurking scum is afoot... big time.

Firestarter · Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:43 pm

@ armlx..

Why, in your opinion do the lynches fail?

Firestarter · Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:05 am

armlx wrote:Both times people kept being bitches and not wanting to lynch FS, and the game stangated until someone changed their mind.

If Im not mistaken armlx....

Your vote was the catalyst for the last lynch....

@ OP..
After the vote on me, I can safely tell you now... to stop listening to the majority...

At anyone else wanting to listen... namely town..

I may seem OMGUSy, and I can see why you would think this..
But scum have directed/been major players on the lynches in this game.

Step back & ask yourself this...
Who was the main proponents of the lynches, who really "made" them happen.. either indirectly, or directly...

I have a sneaky suspicion that LF might... just might be scum, and is playing a clever game.
After all, in the early dasy of this game, he was the most vocal, and had the most influence in the game then...

This changed however, after armlx initially responded to my voting/case on him.

Since then, he, Spyrex and CFR buddied up big time.

CFR....?
Either its a clever scum ploy to distance himself from the before mentioned other 2, or he is finally seeing that armlx & Spyrex' influence over the past few days have been very damaging for town...
Im thinking its the latter right now...

The fact is that 4 townies are dead.... and this directly stems, no matter which way you look at it, from the influence of scum.

IMO, Spyrex is showing alot of bravado now after my last post, and trying to come across as townlike as possible, saying lynch me, then firestarter...
The fact remains, at this moment, that Spyrex is in no danger of being lynched, and he knows this.
Is it purely coincidence that before the hammer of KoC, that Spyrex only made fleeting appearances in the thread, gained a vote for his scum-tastic hammer, and is now probably the biggest poster in the game since the 2nd half day dawned???
I dont think it is...

Scum see a chance to take another townie before night... ultimately me, and see it as OMGUS as you like, my flip, if it happens, will see 6 townies down, with all scum alive....
The chance for a town win will be down to pretty much zero if K7 IS town as I foresee him the next lynch target after the next night.

At the moment, I think he's been pretty damn scummy in the game, just getting by, but if armlx meta read of him is accurate, then he could be just a very antisocial townie..

And to answer a question from Spyrex...
Yes, I think Im on to something... YOU.

Firestarter · Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:44 am

OP... nothing is inevitable here..

My lynching was ineveitbale before KoC... inevitable before Corinthian..

Ill tell you the way I see it here..

My lynching is probably gonna happen, but not before scum can lynch others first.

Most people have me as either their top pick or 2nd pick for scum, and scum see me as the "insurance" lynch.

I gaurantee that if Corin or KoC were not nearing a lynch, then I'd have been done in earlier in this game.

There is only 1 thing thats ineveitable from where Im sitting, lynch me, and it's another townie down the river... Face down!

I cant understand why no-one, (Townies), have not questioned the influence on the game so far earlier, including me, but its taken 4 townies to bite the bullet before Ive done.

Theres 4 townies dead already for petes sake....
This has to be questioned at some stage..

And if my lynch provides more food for thought, so be it..

Firestarter · Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:00 am

armlx wrote:
Why, in your opinion do the lynches fail?
Your scum buddies don't join.

You might actually be onto something there armlx...
All you need to do now is narrow down who didn't vote for me at the time of both other lynches...

Tell ya what, Ill do it for ya..

Players NOT voting Firestarter before KoC lynch.... Im excluding the dead townies here...

FaerieLord
Joubert
TSPN
Manito
Llamafluff
K7
OP
armlx
SC
Spyrex

Players NOT voting Firestarter before Corinthian lynch.. again excluding dead townie..

FaerieLord
Joubert
TSPN
Manito
Llamafluff
K7
OP
armlx
SC
Spyrex

Players who failed to vote FOR Firestarter before both lynches of a townie occured...

FaerieLord
Joubert
TSPN
Manito
Llamafluff
K7
OP
armlx
SC
Spyrex

Ok armlx... wheres my scumbuddy/ies?

Firestarter · Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:17 pm

Your patronising posts offer little in the way of a case Spyrex..
All I hear from you is OMGUS.....

Newsflash...
Most of you guys get to post before me, as where Im at, timezones DO play a part when I post. Im basing this on most of the players Ive played with are usually American..

Currently, its 2:14am where I am, and during the day I work, so its after work I get to post after dealing with RL..

Its not an excuse, its a fact..
And my attacks would seem unfortunate for me, timing wise...

But make of that what you will..

I guess thats fairly OMGUSy of me?

Firestarter · Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:20 pm

@ OP..

That post was aimed at armlx.
I have no idea what he was getting at when he posted the quote I included in that post I made..
So I offered a little info..

Firestarter · Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:36 am

I could read what you posted Spyrex, but I know what I done through the game tnx...

And Im not gonna bother refuting anything you may have harvested from my posts, I simply couldn't care less at this stage.
Ive refuted them individually as they came.. no need to do it all again.

Well, it seems you've gotten the majority who've posted so far to switch to me, well done... Your influence really is superb...

But your influence will leave town down 6 men.....

Im off to Cannes tomorrow, and it might do the trick to have me lynched by then, as Ill be away for a few days...

You can progress through to the next day with scum unscathed....

Yes, scum WILL have taken NO hits after the next night brightens to day!!

Anyways, Ive posted alot, and enough for the rest of town to look through after Ive gone... as opposed to others who feel they can sit, post infrequently, and get away generally without doing anything...

Best of luck town, your gonna need it for the rest of the game!

Firestarter · Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:57 am

No further comment necessary boys...

My lynch should spice things up for ya all

Next up should be one calling the shots.. armlx, Spyrex, CFR, LF..

All 4 have been dominant at some stage, directing the game...

Where did it all go wrong, eh?

LF, hammer away

Firestarter · Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:17 pm

"BAH... c'mon town, you know what to do"

Firestarter · Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:03 am

Firestarter wrote:Gimbo, your posts really reek of scum...
First you seem to give the reasoning that you were gonna hammer "because you never did it before" and then afterwards you say "shit".....

Thats Bollocks, and is scumbag play on so many levels. I mean, to come into thread after contributing hardly anything in a while, you lay a hammer down without as much as reason.....

You didn't add any reasoning after I asked for people not to hammer without having a reread, I'd have expected Scum to do what you did, and its exactly what I think you are, after your recent 2 posts.

VOTE: GIMBO

Everyone forgot this, Gimbo was scummy to the nth degree, that he was replaced by LF saved this character..... But I tried to hold on as long as I could..
Alas, no-one else would take up the baton.

___________________

armlx, I was onto as soon as D1 completed...
His sudden change in attitude to the game sent the alrm bells off for me!!

And again, no one offered to look at one of my last posts calling for the extreme scrutiny of the players calling the shots in the game thus far....

Firestarter wrote:Next up should be one calling the shots.. armlx, Spyrex, CFR, LF..

All 4 have been dominant at some stage, directing the game...

Good game...

But town made it way too easy for scum here...

Spyrex, you seriously need to stop trusting players as much as you did in that game....

You clinged to an idea, lynching me, and others, built cases... scum joined and it became inevitible.
While I was reading the progress of this game while I was a dead townie, I couldn't help but laugh at the amount of times you said I was scummy through the game....
I'd ask you to go back and read some of the cases I presented now, particularly on your "buddie" armlx....
Its quite relevant!!!

Im generally very aggressive in my games, possibly to my detriment, but hey... thats me!!

For me, Spyrex was scums best ally in that game!!!!!

Anyways, good game Mod, tnx!!