Micro 887: the coaLITion [game over]

[Alchemist21]

this game is the summation of everything I dislike about mafia and it doesn't help that the most universally healed slot is my top scumread.

Why are you scumreading EP?

[RC most awesomest]

I was referring to Spangled, not EP.

I'm not going to talk to or about EP, you can ask NSG for her read.

[Alchemist21]

Ok why do you think Spangled is scum?

[RC most awesomest]

He says things that scum would say in the manner that scum says them.

[NC 39]

In Skitter’s game, scum!Sky made it a point of objecting to be added to any coalition, in case it failed. The other scum in that game, Urist, I think it was, did make a coalition with him in it but then pretty much flaked afterwards.

isn't that massively anti-town? townie's are confirmed non-scum to themselves so why sacrifice a chance of winning the game D1 for fear of being scumread for being on a failed coalition? tell me he was scumread for that please

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=79751&start=750

It’s been awhile. I recall it being referenced as scum indicative in spec thread.

[NC 39]

I promise if it fails I won’t immediately point fingers at your slot because I know how you feel about people lynching you just based on your reputation as a strong scum player.

it's not about my feelings, it's about the fact that it's objectively wrong to do so

the only way that feelings come into play is how everyone ~feels~ about the prospect of losing to me

it's not some kind of personal fucking favor to me to treat me like an actual player in a game of mafia

I promise if it fails I won’t immediately point fingers at your slot because I know how you feel about people lynching you just based on your reputation as a strong scum player.

Hello? That was Alchemist who posted that, not me.

[NC 39]

[...]
RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.

I was hoping you'd have a bit more to substantiate the read at this point, as scum!nsg could very easily post more. What's your read on the RC head*?

*Note - I find it hard to read hydras. Is it better practice to split the read by head and consolidate later, or approach the read in a holistic manner from the outset?

Well, if it helps at all, scum!RC was vehemently opposed to being in the coalition in Gameshow.

I know Maria was as well but she’s kind of weird in that way.

If it weren’t for nsg, I’d probably be waiting a bit longer to include them in my coalition but nsg seems really townie to me. I can’t speak for Alchemist but my read is based on a lot more than post volume. I would check out nsg’s scumgames. That’s what I did before I added them.

[NC 39]

HURT: spangled

removing from our heal list, will discuss it with nsg later.

Fine.

HURT: NC 39, Gamma Emerald

???

[Gamma Emerald]

for my part i'm just going to treat EP like a nonparticipant in the game and hope that we win via coalition not including them regardless of their alignment.

Ew
I feel semi confident I can read EP

[Gamma Emerald]

He says things that scum would say in the manner that scum says them.

Elaborate? Firstly that's rather vague and second I dont really agree with that read or logic rn.

[RC most awesomest]

He says things that scum would say in the manner that scum says them.

Elaborate? Firstly that's rather vague and second I dont really agree with that read or logic rn.

why do you townread spangled? is it just this question?

-nsg

[NC 39]

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority.

Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-08 18:00:00)

[NC 39]

nancy

, clem, where are youuuuuuuu

-nsg

Was this directed to me specifically or my hydra?

I also would like to understand why Espresso is your strongest sr and why you’re tr LUV?

I’m currently tl Espresso and null on LUV, so what am I missing?

for my part i'm just going to treat EP like a nonparticipant in the game and hope that we win via coalition not including them regardless of their alignment.

I don’t understand either yours or RC’s reads on Espresso.

[Gamma Emerald]

He says things that scum would say in the manner that scum says them.

Elaborate? Firstly that's rather vague and second I dont really agree with that read or logic rn.

why do you townread spangled? is it just this question?

-nsg

More that I think his sorting is towny

[EspressoPatronum]

for my part i'm just going to treat EP like a nonparticipant in the game and hope that we win via coalition not including them regardless of their alignment.

Why? This makes no sense unless it's out of spite for my read.

I promise if it fails I won’t immediately point fingers at your slot because I know how you feel about people lynching you just based on your reputation as a strong scum player.

it's not about my feelings, it's about the fact that it's objectively wrong to do so

the only way that feelings come into play is how everyone ~feels~ about the prospect of losing to me

it's not some kind of personal fucking favor to me to treat me like an actual player in a game of mafia

I'm treating you exactly like I treated Formerfish in the Purge game. I have a small understanding of your town game and have concluded you're not playing within that normal style.

Look at it from the other point of view:
I'd like to think that at this point, I have a reputation of posting a lot and asking a lot of questions. It'd completely fair and valid for someone to question my alignment of me I played a game and did not play within my usual behaviour. There might be a valid reason for my change of behaviour, but that doesn't take away from the validity of someone else calling attention to it.

As stated earlier, my read of you has nothing to do with your scum game and everything to do with your town game.

[RC most awesomest]

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority.

Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-08 18:00:00)

SKY

why would you run this game with seven day deadlines???

More that I think his sorting is towny

could you give specific examples of what sorting you're looking at, perhaps?

I'm treating you exactly like I treated Formerfish in the Purge game.

I have a small understanding of your town game and have concluded you're not playing within that normal style.

perhaps you should try to expand that understanding of RC's "normal style"? radiantcowbells is the top poster on the entire website by a margin of over

eight thousand

posts.

i was about to begin a statement by saying that i understand where your read is coming from, but on reflection i'm not actually sure that i do. near as i can tell, you're scumreading RC because he's behaving differently than in games you've played with him where he was town. understandable – my question is, to what extent have you factored in the fact that he is playing in a hydra with me, and to what end do you believe any perceived differences in his play would further some scum agenda?

your application of meta seems misguided to me. you also don't seem to have much of an interest in sorting me. when you said "scum!nsg could very easily post more", was that actually backed up by any sort of knowledge regarding me and my habits? or was it a simple dismissal of a meta-based behavioral tell with the reasoning that "it's not hard to just do X or not do Y"?

-nsg

[NC 39]

Spoiler:

HEAL: Alchemist, RC most awesomest, NC 39, Gamma Emerald, EspressoPatronum

That’s myself plus the 3 slots I believe to be the strongest slots coming into the game plus Espresso since I liked their entrance.

I think the Coalition should be the 5 strongest/Towniest players not just for the obvious reasons of the D1 wincon but also as a weak investigational tool if it fails - if the Coalition fails we know there’s a deep wolf in a group where we might not otherwise suspect scum to be.

Can we do the ‘try and win by Coalition’ thing first, and

then

the ‘use-information-on-a-fail’ thing afterwards,

if

we fail, not just the ‘let’s-find-out-if-there’s-a-deepwolf’ thing straight up?

this looks like fun

HEAL: Hectic, NC 39, Spangled, Alchemist, Espresso

VOTE: RC most awesomest

i can provide a few walls later if people doubt these reads

can I, without giving a long winded explanation of why these kinds of posts even made ironically throw me off and make me dislike the game, ask everyone who wants to win as town to not do this

A-fucking-men!

this is pretty yuck.

What about it?

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

weakest entrance thus far imo

Dude, he did two things: greet the thread as he literally almost always does, and agreed with someone who disagreed with you... OMGUS, or just a lack of willingness to meta someone? A combination, perchance?

him greeting the thread in null. Why do you feel like sticking up for the guy?

Aye, ‘tis null. Exactly. But Hectic, to me, was making out that it was scummy... and I disagreed... and told him so...
I imagine you try and call people out on things you disagree with — I like to do that too.

[/color]HEAL: Gamma

The Gamma v LUV disagreement looks genuine + Gamma came out of it looking more town.

HEAL: Spangled

Liking Spangled's posting style thus far. I'm not yet certain if the wide coalition read on Spangled is a good or bad thing, but I'm treating it as a good thing for now.

I’ve seen UTRs be scum, but the biggest, most-AI thing is (in my limited experience) why they end up being UTRed. I don’t know how many people here know emps, but he’s been UTRed up until around EoD2 as scum before, mostly due to tone, and a sheer number of posts, most of which were actually pretty contentless, but seemed helpful.
Townreads everyone agrees on win games, though, especially this one.

Also, about the Gamma v LUV thing, I think Gamma came out of it

somewhat

towny, but what did you think about LUV? Did you agree with Gamma on his defensiveness?

@nsg, these posts read townie to me.

[Skygazer]

VC 1.05 Coalitions: EspressoPatronum (4): EspressoPatronum, Gamma Emerald, Hectic, Spangled Hectic (3): EspressoPatronum, Hectic, Spangled Alchemist21 (3): Alchemist21, EspressoPatronum, RC most awesomest NC 39 (2): NC 39, RC most awesomest Gamma Emerald (2): Gamma Emerald, Spangled RC most awesomest (1): RC most awesomest Clemency (0): Lil Uzi Vert (0): Spangled (0): Lynch: Lil Uzi Vert (2): Hectic, Gamma Emerald Not Voting (7): RC most awesomest, EspressoPatronum, NC 39, Clemency, Lil Uzi Vert, Spangled, Alchemist21 With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-08 18:00:00).

[RC most awesomest]

EP transparently has no interest in engaging with our slot outside of calling us scum
whether that makes them scum is yet to be determined.

also... why are the deadlines 7 days...

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

weakest entrance thus far imo

Dude, he did two things: greet the thread as he literally almost always does, and agreed with someone who disagreed with you... OMGUS, or just a lack of willingness to meta someone? A combination, perchance?

I like this entrance, the questioning feels organic.

Could you maybe try playing the game and stop following the solve the setup philosophy?

Okay this feels like an overreaction

Same thing goes for you.

Actually how though.
VOTE: LUV
Don't recall you being this defensive.

Why is defensive scum-indicative, necessarily? Never actually had someone explain this to me.

This questioning feels objective which I'd say is towny. I think scum would try to steer things in X or Y direction.

Hey, Hectic, what made you decide on that specific coalition to vote for?
Why me, why NC 39, etc.?

I feel like prodding at townreads (if that's what it was) in this way is towny.

Could you maybe try playing the game and stop following the solve the setup philosophy?

Okay this feels like an overreaction

Same thing goes for you.

Actually how though.
VOTE: LUV
Don't recall you being this defensive.

Why is defensive scum-indicative, necessarily? Never actually had someone explain this to me.

At least as I see it, scum are more concern about keeping themselves alive so they respond to pressure more defensively.

Fair enough; makes sense. Really not sure it’s enough to call LUV scum over, but you do you, I guess.

Do you have any reads yet Gamma?

Seems motivated in driving the discussion.

so since i like Espresso and

Spangled

so far:

y?


HEAL: NC 39

HURT: Spangeled

Making a nice and pointed statement there.

@Gamma
Was people adding themselves to their own coalitions helpful and/or useful in that D1 town-win game?

Shows investment in figuring out setup strategies. This is towny imo because scum would probably already have a plan.

@Alchemist
Got any reads yet?

@Clemency
Any reads yet?

I like the desire to pull reads out of players.

[Gamma Emerald]

A couple other things
@Alchemist: you said you wanted to wait to replace me + NC 39 instead of just taking us out. What changed your mind and why?
Also, NC 39 feels off to me.

[RC most awesomest]

I don't agree and I don't know what to cite besides I'm better than you.

[RC most awesomest]

Just so we're clear, EP isn't policy. He's taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me. Try to discredit me, call me scum while avoiding engagement and discrediting townreads on me. The NSG engagement is even worse, she has a clearly established meta of efforting less as scum and there's even a hydra game of the two of us where we were scum where she literally posted once, and he's handwaving that as well. It's not an honest interaction with my slot: either his approach to this game was clearly defined before game as prevent RChydra from being in the coalition at all costs or he is scum.

It's hard for me to figure out which one is correct so I'm instead choosing to just bucket him as a non-coalition player and hope to win the game without dealing with him.

[Spangled]

Just so we're clear, EP isn't policy. He's taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me. Try to discredit me, call me scum while avoiding engagement and discrediting townreads on me. The NSG engagement is even worse, she has a clearly established meta of efforting less as scum and there's even a hydra game of the two of us where we were scum where she literally posted once, and he's handwaving that as well. It's not an honest interaction with my slot: either his approach to this game was clearly defined before game as prevent RChydra from being in the coalition at all costs or he is scum.

It's hard for me to figure out which one is correct so I'm instead choosing to just bucket him as a non-coalition player and hope to win the game without dealing with him.

I don’t think he’s trying not to engage with you as hard as you think; if you give him time and ask him good, pointed questions, rather than deciding as the be-all and end-all on page 7 that he’s probably scum choosing to ignore larger meta in favour of his own experience of your meta — which people are going to naturally default to, especially if they haven’t actually properly meta’d you — we won’t get any kind of consensus on him for a long time, and it will probably be impossible to do so.

[Spangled]

@LUV
Any reads yet?