Micro 887: the coaLITion [game over]

[Skygazer]

VC 1.12 Coalitions: Hectic (5): EspressoPatronum, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest, Spangled EspressoPatronum (5): EspressoPatronum, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest, Spangled NC 39 (4): EspressoPatronum, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest Alchemist21 (3): Alchemist21, EspressoPatronum, RC most awesomest Gamma Emerald (2): Gamma Emerald, RC most awesomest RC most awesomest (2): RC most awesomest, Alchemist21 YOUAREGREAT (0): Lil Uzi Vert (0): Spangled (0): Lynch: Lil Uzi Vert (2): Gamma Emerald, EspressoPatronum Spangled (1): RC most awesomest Alchemist21 (1): Hectic EspressoPatronum (1): Lil Uzi Vert Hectic (1): YOUAREGREAT Not Voting (3): NC 39, Spangled, Alchemist21 With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-12 18:00:00).

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean look at how much time I had to put in to get a simple explanation for why a PoE list was structured how it was. Like I feel if I had to describe that hydra's play in one word it would be "defensive". They don't seem to handle any sort of pushing/pressure at all.

[Gamma Emerald]

Thanks for breaking my flow Sky

[EspressoPatronum]

I have a busy few days approaching. I'll still be keeping up and posting, but I won't be as active as normal.

@ me if I miss a question or anything like that.

[Spangled]

I mean look at how much time I had to put in to get a simple explanation for why a PoE list was structured how it was. Like I feel if I had to describe that hydra's play in one word it would be "defensive". They don't seem to handle any sort of pushing/pressure at all.

To me, that exchange there looked more like a natural abrasiveness combined with some frustration; you two were doing some weird talking past each other there, and I feel like there were misunderstandings by both sides.

Any other examples of how their play has been defensive?

[Spangled]

@EP
What’s your take on LUV, post-NC 39’s observation about how consensus seems to be that LUV is scum?

[NC 39]

I mean look at how much time I had to put in to get a simple explanation for why a PoE list was structured how it was. Like I feel if I had to describe that hydra's play in one word it would be "defensive". They don't seem to handle any sort of pushing/pressure at all.

I’m finding responding to your posts, extremely frustrating, because you seem to be misreading some of my posts, even when I keep explaining them to you, repeatedly. I’m still trying to determine if that’s an actual misunderstanding on your part or intentional.

Like the list thing for example. I made it clear it was a list in tiers, from towniest reads to least towniest and I had to explain it to you more than once - after I had already and clearly explained it to Great.

So, it’s hard not to be tilted, when I get asked to explain the same exact thing more than once.

[Gamma Emerald]

You're explaining things yes, but not in a way that makes sense. Maybe I just have a stick up my ass though, but I do think you've been defensive with Alchemist and some others

[Spangled]

@Hectic
Are you comfortable with your coalition right now?

[Gamma Emerald]

I am collecting all the posts I find defensive from NC39 and I'd like to withdraw my accusation of trying to tie me with them

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler:

nancy

, clem, where are youuuuuuuu

-nsg

Was this directed to me specifically or my hydra?

I also would like to understand why Espresso is your strongest sr and why you’re tr LUV?

I’m currently tl Espresso and null on LUV, so what am I missing?

If I did change it I would just take out NC

y?

HURT: spangled

removing from our heal list, will discuss it with nsg later.

Fine.

HURT: NC 39, Gamma Emerald

???

LUV is still scum.

RC is town.

HURT: LUV

HEAL: RC

not a big fan of Gamma randomly trying to apply pressure to me.

Don't like how Alchem is ignoring me as I think that often comes from scum.

And still, dislike Spangled.

but thats too many scum reads. So I'm wrong on 2 of those 4.

HEAL: RC most awesomest, Hectic, EspressoPatronum, NC 39 is a rock-solid coalition but I'm hesitant to add Clemency as some of his posts pinged me earlier.

So basically, who are the other town between Clem, Gamma, Alchem, and Spangled and I guess LUV in case I'm wrong but I don't think I am?

Okay. You don't think you responding to a question directed at me and reacting with blank (undetailed) abjection to Alchemist saying your and my slot weren't towny enough for a coalition looked a little off to me? And like Spangled has a point, your suspicion of me is pretty weak itself.

I always ask ppl that are scum reading me why they are scum reading me regardless of alignment. We've also played a bunch together. Are you telling me that I've never once asked anyone that was scum reading me why they were scum reading me? And just in general, why is that a bad question? Should we just all be throwing out reads without reasons given? Why didn't

YOU

care that Achlem was reading you wrong? Or was he not?

And like Spangled has a point, your suspicion of me is pretty weak itself.

that's really really not what he said though.

I agree that those are fairly weak accusations, but you can’t really back up a read that seems to be completely gut.

He's saying that

YOUR

accusations are weak but defended them as gut despite that a buddying accusation is in fact not a gut accusation. Maybe one could argue that the "NC feels off" is a gut accusation but you are claiming you felt this way b/c I asked Aclem was he was not townreading me.

Well as it is, it looks like it's completely arbitrary. How am I supposed to read arbitrary read list divisions?

Why? Because you disagree with it?

These are the posts I find defensive from NC 39. It's less than I expected, and I think that's mostly because I had my head up my ass regarding my own interactions with them.

[Spangled]

Spoiler:

nancy

, clem, where are youuuuuuuu

-nsg

Was this directed to me specifically or my hydra?

I also would like to understand why Espresso is your strongest sr and why you’re tr LUV?

I’m currently tl Espresso and null on LUV, so what am I missing?

If I did change it I would just take out NC

y?

HURT: spangled

removing from our heal list, will discuss it with nsg later.

Fine.

HURT: NC 39, Gamma Emerald

???

LUV is still scum.

RC is town.

HURT: LUV

HEAL: RC

not a big fan of Gamma randomly trying to apply pressure to me.

Don't like how Alchem is ignoring me as I think that often comes from scum.

And still, dislike Spangled.

but thats too many scum reads. So I'm wrong on 2 of those 4.

HEAL: RC most awesomest, Hectic, EspressoPatronum, NC 39 is a rock-solid coalition but I'm hesitant to add Clemency as some of his posts pinged me earlier.

So basically, who are the other town between Clem, Gamma, Alchem, and Spangled and I guess LUV in case I'm wrong but I don't think I am?

Okay. You don't think you responding to a question directed at me and reacting with blank (undetailed) abjection to Alchemist saying your and my slot weren't towny enough for a coalition looked a little off to me? And like Spangled has a point, your suspicion of me is pretty weak itself.

I always ask ppl that are scum reading me why they are scum reading me regardless of alignment. We've also played a bunch together. Are you telling me that I've never once asked anyone that was scum reading me why they were scum reading me? And just in general, why is that a bad question? Should we just all be throwing out reads without reasons given? Why didn't

YOU

care that Achlem was reading you wrong? Or was he not?

And like Spangled has a point, your suspicion of me is pretty weak itself.

that's really really not what he said though.

I agree that those are fairly weak accusations, but you can’t really back up a read that seems to be completely gut.

He's saying that

YOUR

accusations are weak but defended them as gut despite that a buddying accusation is in fact not a gut accusation. Maybe one could argue that the "NC feels off" is a gut accusation but you are claiming you felt this way b/c I asked Aclem was he was not townreading me.

Well as it is, it looks like it's completely arbitrary. How am I supposed to read arbitrary read list divisions?

Why? Because you disagree with it?

These are the posts I find defensive from NC 39. It's less than I expected, and I think that's mostly because I had my head up my ass regarding my own interactions with them.

I find it telling that those posts are all from Nero (I think); I feel like what you’re perceiving as defensiveness is personality-based and more of a general abrasiveness.
Has your read changed on them, after (I’m assuming) skimming their ISO?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah. I'd say I have them closer to null. And the hero thing makes sense because we have definitely clashed in the past. Maybe I'll just try to read Nancy exclusively.

[NC 39]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

nancy

, clem, where are youuuuuuuu

-nsg

Was this directed to me specifically or my hydra?

I also would like to understand why Espresso is your strongest sr and why you’re tr LUV?

I’m currently tl Espresso and null on LUV, so what am I missing?

If I did change it I would just take out NC

y?

HURT: spangled

removing from our heal list, will discuss it with nsg later.

Fine.

HURT: NC 39, Gamma Emerald

???

LUV is still scum.

RC is town.

HURT: LUV

HEAL: RC

not a big fan of Gamma randomly trying to apply pressure to me.

Don't like how Alchem is ignoring me as I think that often comes from scum.

And still, dislike Spangled.

but thats too many scum reads. So I'm wrong on 2 of those 4.

HEAL: RC most awesomest, Hectic, EspressoPatronum, NC 39 is a rock-solid coalition but I'm hesitant to add Clemency as some of his posts pinged me earlier.

So basically, who are the other town between Clem, Gamma, Alchem, and Spangled and I guess LUV in case I'm wrong but I don't think I am?

Okay. You don't think you responding to a question directed at me and reacting with blank (undetailed) abjection to Alchemist saying your and my slot weren't towny enough for a coalition looked a little off to me? And like Spangled has a point, your suspicion of me is pretty weak itself.

[=spoiler]

I always ask ppl that are scum reading me why they are scum reading me regardless of alignment. We've also played a bunch together. Are you telling me that I've never once asked anyone that was scum reading me why they were scum reading me? And just in general, why is that a bad question? Should we just all be throwing out reads without reasons given? Why didn't

YOU

care that Achlem was reading you wrong? Or was he not?

And like Spangled has a point, your suspicion of me is pretty weak itself.

that's really really not what he said though.

I agree that those are fairly weak accusations, but you can’t really back up a read that seems to be completely gut.

He's saying that

YOUR

accusations are weak but defended them as gut despite that a buddying accusation is in fact not a gut accusation. Maybe one could argue that the "NC feels off" is a gut accusation but you are claiming you felt this way b/c I asked Aclem was he was not townreading me.

Well as it is, it looks like it's completely arbitrary. How am I supposed to read arbitrary read list divisions?

Why? Because you disagree with it?

[m
These are the posts I find defensive from NC 39. It's less than I expected, and I think that's mostly because I had my head up my ass regarding my own interactions with them.

I find it telling that those posts are all from Nero (I think); I feel like what you’re perceiving as defensiveness is personality-based and more of a general abrasiveness.
Has your read changed on them, after (I’m assuming) skimming their ISO?

Some were mine but the more abrasive posts, were all Nero. Wrt to 116 - I was particularly surprised at that one. Nsg referenced me by name but I wasn’t sure if she actually meant me specifically or my hydra. Nero’s abrasiveness is actually town indicative for him. In the two games I played with scum!Nero, he was more laid back.

[NC 39]

I’ve thought a lot about RCMA’s Oversoul case as to why they’re sr Spangled but it just seems more and more improbable to me that he’s actually scum faking all that. He’s posting so much but still apparently so effectively hiding a scum agenda? If so, I’m totally not seeing it.

HEAL: Spangled

@RCMA, I was hesitant on adding him because you were sr him but I really think he’s obvtown in this game. I urge you to read his scumgames and realize how differently he’s playing here.

[Spangled]

I’m townreading Gamma’s willingness to read NC 39 again.
I’m townreading NC 39’s willingness to read me despite RC’s read on me, but this comes with more reservations since I could be sort of... ‘anti-OMGUSing’, — where you townread someone because they correctly read you, I guess — maybe...

I’m getting more paranoid about EP and GREAT, but both have been pretty towny so far — I guess I just need some activity to sort of... refresh my townreads, I guess? I don’t really know what I mean here, but I think I’ve captured the gist.

[Spangled]

For LUV, Alch, and Hectic, I’d be fairly comfortable lynching/excluding from coalition in there, although I think I’d like Alch most so far... Not really any particular thing, just a lack of a towny

tone

, kinda the same thing with LUV but, unlike LUV, Alch seems like there hasn’t been a consensus-thing going on, which is the thing that holds me back from lynching them, at least today.

I have to admit, Hectic’s kind of faded from my mind, but the thing about that un-hectic playstyle and how he tried to cover for it by ‘channeling JK Rowling’, but hasn’t done similar for a while is kind of worrying to me. So I’d be comfortable lynching there, too.

My biggest concern with my reads is that I seem to be TRing the active people and PoEing the inactive people, and it seems unlikely that scum are all in the inactive people...


Just realised that RC was absent from my previous post, but they’re pretty conf!town by nsg’s scum!meta, I feel... Although how they’re fading away from the thread worries me, I have to admit.

[Skygazer]

Lil Uzi Vert has been prodded.

[NC 39]

I’m townreading Gamma’s willingness to read NC 39 again.
I’m townreading NC 39’s willingness to read me despite RC’s read on me, but this comes with more reservations since I could be sort of... ‘anti-OMGUSing’, — where you townread someone because they correctly read you, I guess — maybe...

I’m getting more paranoid about EP and GREAT, but both have been pretty towny so far — I guess I just need some activity to sort of... refresh my townreads, I guess? I don’t really know what I mean here, but I think I’ve captured the gist.

I didn’t know that Gamma and Nero had such a contentious history but this wouldn’t be the first time he misread me, because of my hydra partner. He sr me in DnD because Math was obsessively death tunneling obvtown Kokichi.

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbh I'd been feeling like we were getting on better huh I just proved myself wrong. And I think Nancy makes a good comment about this happening before

[Alchemist21]

The more it went on the more it seemed to me that NC 39/Gamma interaction was T/S. Gamma being willing to reconsider makes them look better but at this point I think I’m pretty confident in calling NC 39 Town.

HEAL: NC 39

[Alchemist21]

I’m also warming up to Spangled. They’ll probably end up as my 5th Coalition vote.

[Hectic]

so i ISOed Espresso and i'm still happy with him the coalition actually

the initial attack/1v1 on RC seems like a bold thing for scum to do, and the cautious kind of tone i was getting from him all game is just his playstyle i think

still like Great

my read on Alchemist at that point was entirely based on the content/reads he'd provided so far being less substantial than others in the game, i couldn't actually pinpoint anything scummy he's done

the more i think about it, the more LUV's recent posts look like a desperate LAMIST attempt by scum to be added in the coalition/not lynched. Like he's complaining about the time extension but then going inactive? he wouldn't have used like the 2 or 3 days we had left if the extension hadn't been granted then

if people want me to paint an Alchemist!scum that i don't actually believe, i can do that though

[Hectic]

I don’t even know if throwing around lynch votes will be useful until the Coalition is decided on since we can’t lynch before the Coalition is decided.

why can't we do both at the same time? gives us less time to find someone to lynch. he disagreed but now he's voting for me?

I promise if it fails I won’t immediately point fingers at your slot because I know how you feel about people lynching you just based on your reputation as a strong scum player.

appeasing RC, why does he need to post this?

If I did change it I would just take out NC and Gamma. I’d rather wait until having names to replace them with before taking them out though.

RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.

like really how good is this meta read? it's based on the sample size of exactly ONE other RCMA game as far as i can tell where NSG was inactive, and RC was active when they were scum there. this seems like an easy excuse to start buddying the RCMA slot, especially given RC's hostility at Espresso at the time

[...]
RC reads was talked about earlier and it’s based on NSG actually posting.

I was hoping you'd have a bit more to substantiate the read at this point, as scum!nsg could very easily post more. What's your read on the RC head*?

*Note - I find it hard to read hydras. Is it better practice to split the read by head and consolidate later, or approach the read in a holistic manner from the outset?

12 seemed like a typical TownRC post to me but not definitely.

Most people go by reading individual heads if they knows one of the heads well.

read with no explanation

His whole thought process on EP feels like Town RC.

2nd part has been answered in an earlier post.

read with no explanation, nice and easy to townread RC based on stuff like "feels like town RC i've played with before"

Hectic do you still believe what you said about applying pressure with your votes? Do you think your LUV vote is still good?

priming himself to scumread me after no matter how i answer this question

But do you agree with the thought process?

No. I have EP as Town.

another read with no explanation

I have to say you’ve been pinging me this whole game. What makes Spangled a good vote in your eyes? How come you seemingly forgot about voting for anyone else this whole time?

look at that last question: there's no way to answer it other than "yeah, i forgot", he's painting the narrative that i'm lying with that "seemingly forgot"

You’ve asked me exactly one thing and in the very next post Gamma pointed out your question had been answered already.

fair point I guess although you were plenty of capable of expanding on why you didn't have a town read on us and we are close to DL so isn't about time to start sharing your view of the gamestate?

How do I expand on a nullread? I can’t.

explain why he doesn't townread or scumread the slot? loves dodging actually explaining his reads

It was mainly his tone at first. It sounded like he was constructing his posts to sound good; formal is too strong of a word for what his tone was but it didn’t seem casual and relaxed to me. Looking at his completed Newbie game though it seems that’s just the way they post but I still couldn’t shake the vibe and since he was the one who initially advocated for pressure votes it makes me wonder why we haven’t seen much of him actually doing that.

so he saw my tone is NAI, or even town-indicative since he looked through a newbie game where i was town, so he's essentially scumreading me because i forgot to change my vote and that's it? again with painting this narrative thing that i didn't forget. like why would i express an opinion like that as scum early in the game and then just leave it?

I could probably have a good read on NC 39 if I knew which head made which posts.

Lul, gonna be honest, i didn't realise NC 39 was a hydra until i read this

Alchemist: i see, thanks. what do you think of so many people townreading Spangled? do you agree/disagree?

I was actually a little surprised at how many were Townreading them when I checked the VC. They’re null to me.

Do you have any kind of read on me now?
What about Hectic?

You’re still null to me. I don’t trust your self-meta to pin you down as Town. It might help me if you tell me why you think Great is Towny. I don’t want Great in the Coalition and I have a reason for it but I want to hear your reason for including them first.

Hectic’s still a scumread.

woah, actually explains his reads. i'm not trying to misrep btw, i know he does explain SOME other reads in his other posts, i'm obviously going to point out cases where he doesn't though. no expansion on his scumread for me because he doesn't actually have anything substantial other than the "forgetting to vote" thing

The more it went on the more it seemed to me that NC 39/Gamma interaction was T/S. Gamma being willing to reconsider makes them look better but at this point I think I’m pretty confident in calling NC 39 Town.

HEAL: NC 39

nice appeasement and excuse to putting NC 39 in a coalition, like why does it read as T/S?

I’m also warming up to Spangled. They’ll probably end up as my 5th Coalition vote.

some more appeasement, getting his coalitionbloc together without actually providing explanation for his top coalition reads


that's all, think i've convinced myself a little with that actually lol

[Alchemist21]

Lmao.

“If Alchemist is Townreading anyone it’s appeasement you guys.”

Fuck outta here with that bs. You’re coming up with any reason to scumread me because you don’t like that I’m scumreading you.