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I would like it to read:In post 47, tris wrote:
What do you want to change?In post 38, Inferno390 wrote:Sorry Oka, there’s a few things I’d like to change about your proposal before it goes through.
"There shall be oneand only onecurrency, the coin. All current players upon passage of this proposal shallstartbe givenwith 100 coins and the government shallstartbe givenwith 1000 coins in reserve. No new coins may be createdwithout the influence of a party with the ability to make such coinsunless there is given consent by a supermajority."
And then I would like to add the clause:
"All players joining the game for the first time receive 100 coins."
VOTE: P005: Yea
P006:
A Motion is a action that can only be made by a specific player who possesses the capability to do so. The ability to perform a Motion is only given by a rule that states as such. Motions shall begin numbering at M001 and count up by each ordinal number. A Motion may be passed by absolute majority. A Motion's clause always consists of a thing that will happen when it is passed, i.e., "X will occur." Motions cannot change the rules in any way. When a motion passes, the effect stated immediately occurs.
P007:
Players will take turn in order of the player list, starting with player one and passing in descending order. Should a player not submit a proposal or motion turn within 24 hours, the player forfeits his turn and play passes to the next player. The turn is immediately passed when a player submits any number of proposals or motions. Once the last player on the player list has taken his turn, the turn cycles back to the first player.
P008: Players are ordered in the player list according to the order that they joined.
P009: Players may only make 1 proposal to add or remove a single rule OR 2 separate proposals to amend or transmute a single rule on their turn. In addition, on their turn they may perform any number of motions on their turn.
P010: All players have the ability to perform a Motions so as they may ignore any turn restrictions placed on them by other rules. They may do this in conjunction with making proposals, and in conjunction may submit more proposals that the stated limits by any rules. However, should the motion fail, a number of those proposals, chosen by the player who submitted them, must become void and cannot come into effect, so that the player's turn falls under the restriction placed on them by any other rules.
P011: Any player may vote or change their vote at any time."Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL
“Does anyone know if Inferno is prone to going of on huge tangents of twisted logic regarding basically alignment neutral posting? Asking for a friend ...”—MagnaofIllusion
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VOTE: P006 Nay
Unnecessary. All rules already require a supermajority to pass.
VOTE: P007 Nay
Too vague. An executive branch does us no good if we don't know what it does or who's in it. We need to define the executive branch before with enact it.
p-edit yah I will"Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL
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Retracting all motions made in post 51, then:
P008:
A Motion is a action that can only be made by a specific player who possesses the capability to do so. The ability to perform a Motion is only given by a rule that states as such. Motions shall begin numbering at M001 and count up by each ordinal number. A Motion may be passed by absolute majority. A Motion's clause always consists of a thing that will happen when it is passed, i.e., "X will occur." Motions cannot change the rules in any way. When a motion passes, the effect stated immediately occurs.
P009:
Players will take turn in order of the player list, starting with player one and passing in descending order. Should a player not submit a proposal or motion turn within 24 hours, the player forfeits his turn and play passes to the next player. The turn is immediately passed when a player submits any number of proposals or motions. Once the last player on the player list has taken his turn, the turn cycles back to the first player.
P008: Players are ordered in the player list according to the order that they joined.
P010: Players may only make 1 proposal to add or remove a single rule OR 2 separate proposals to amend or transmute a single rule on their turn. In addition, on their turn they may perform any number of motions on their turn.
P011: All players have the ability to perform a Motions so as they may ignore any turn restrictions placed on them by other rules. They may do this in conjunction with making proposals, and in conjunction may submit more proposals that the stated limits by any rules. However, should the motion fail, a number of those proposals, chosen by the player who submitted them, must become void and cannot come into effect, so that the player's turn falls under the restriction placed on them by any other rules.
P012: Any player may vote or change their vote at any time.
P013: Amend R104 to state: "No-one may edit or delete any post on the the game thread, with the exception of the initial post, which may be edited to display important information at the discretion of the moderator,or in the sole case to adjust proposal numbers so they are in accordance with the numbers of other proposals in this thread, so as to avoid confusion."Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL
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This is what post 55 should look like. Sorry guys.In post 54, Inferno390 wrote:Retracting all motions made in post 51, then:
P008:
A Motion is a action that can only be made by a specific player who possesses the capability to do so. The ability to perform a Motion is only given by a rule that states as such. Motions shall begin numbering at M001 and count up by each ordinal number. A Motion may be passed by absolute majority. A Motion's clause always consists of a thing that will happen when it is passed, i.e., "X will occur." Motions cannot change the rules in any way. When a motion passes, the effect stated immediately occurs.
P009:
Players will take turn in order of the player list, starting with player one and passing in descending order. Should a player not submit a proposal or motion turn within 24 hours, the player forfeits his turn and play passes to the next player. The turn is immediately passed when a player submits any number of proposals or motions. Once the last player on the player list has taken his turn, the turn cycles back to the first player.
P010: Players are ordered in the player list according to the order that they joined.
P011: Players may only make 1 proposal to add or remove a single rule OR 2 separate proposals to amend or transmute a single rule on their turn. In addition, on their turn they may perform any number of motions on their turn.
P012: All players have the ability to perform a Motions so as they may ignore any turn restrictions placed on them by other rules. They may do this in conjunction with making proposals, and in conjunction may submit more proposals that the stated limits by any rules. However, should the motion fail, a number of those proposals, chosen by the player who submitted them, must become void and cannot come into effect, so that the player's turn falls under the restriction placed on them by any other rules.
P013: Any player may vote or change their vote at any time.
P014: Amend R104 to state: "No-one may edit or delete any post on the the game thread, with the exception of the initial post, which may be edited to display important information at the discretion of the moderator,or in the sole case to adjust proposal numbers so they are in accordance with the numbers of other proposals in this thread, so as to avoid confusion."
Also:
P015: A player may retract his proposal at any time. When this occurs it does not go into effect and cannot be voted on any longer."Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL
“Does anyone know if Inferno is prone to going of on huge tangents of twisted logic regarding basically alignment neutral posting? Asking for a friend ...”—MagnaofIllusion
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Just finished updating the wiki for y'all. DO we want votecounts for each of the proposals or not?"Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL
“Does anyone know if Inferno is prone to going of on huge tangents of twisted logic regarding basically alignment neutral posting? Asking for a friend ...”—MagnaofIllusion
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Good afternoon fellow lawmakers. It is with great privilege that I come before you to offer my opinion on your disastrous bills that are running our great nation into the ground and humbly offer up a few of my own to save us from inevitable destruction. I will chronologically address anything I believe is worth my time before proposing my own bills.
I will spoiler all quotes to try to make this a little bit shorter.
Spoiler:
I would be honored to form a party with you, my friend.
Spoiler:
Government is all about bureaucracy, my friend. I would graciously volunteer to count by hand the number, if it meant making this thread a better place. And for new players, it would not be a barrier, but a motivation. Handouts have never worked and never will. You must earn respect and wealth. Trust me, you would find no member more enthusiastic then the new players among us if they were given an opportunity to earn votes in this manner.
Spoiler:
Never have truer words been spoken.
The credit is yours, my friend. Without you, I know not what we would do.Spoiler:
Never in my long life have I seen a more useless bill brought to the floor of this chamber. What is winning? You can't answer this question objectively and that is why this bill is so bad. It serves to do and add nothing, except clutter our sacred rule set with nonsense. There is no rule prohibiting winning, therefore it is already acceptable. We need not waste our time with this vague nonsense.Spoiler:
I love the innovation and enthusiasm, representative. An executive is undeniably important in this game. But as I just stated, I will never support hollow meaningless bills. You have a fantastic idea, but you must construct a more in depth and detailed bill that gives our executive the power to oversee this game. What good is an executive that can do nothing and that we have no means by which to elect?Spoiler:
Thank you for your post, my friend. You clearly put a large amount of thought into such motions. We need more representatives like you.Spoiler:
I fully support a currency, but there are issues with this current bill. For one, I believe we should take the utmost care in phrasing our rules to make sense. As such, I cannot support a bill using inadequate grammar such as 'be given with'. I also do not support a bill that limits the creation of other currencies. Needlessly restricting ourselves to one fiat currency this early in the game is begging for an autocracy. This is why I will be proposing my own currency in due time.
I also love the addition of motions, but I cannot pass an unclear bill. I think the specific bill you are passing needs to be self-explanatory. Stating that only certain players are able to create motions and not giving a clear definition of who that is within the specific bill is a big mistake. What happens if one bill passes and the other doesn't? We'd be left with a mess of a law on our hands.
I'm not inherently opposed to any of these bills regarding motions, turns, etc. But I need them to be grouped together, I feel like the current way they are arranged is sloppy lawmaking.
Regarding bill 008, I believe alphabetical order would make more sense and make the player list easier to navigate should we receive a large number of players. I'm not inherently opposed to this though.
I fully support everyone's right to change their vote prior to the passage of a rule.
I personally support individuals rights to edit their post, but I understand how and why that could be problematic. I'm not sure which way I will vote on this bill.Spoiler:
I am also unsure about allowing players to retract proposals. I do adamantly believe we should use gender-inclusive language in our bills. I would request this be reworded before I consider a vote in affirmation.
Thank you for your dedication to updating the wiki, representative. Votecounts would be helpful, if it is not too much trouble.Spoiler:
Apologies in advance for the double post I'm about to make- Aronis
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I decided to put all my votes in a separate post. While I am fully aware this is wasteful, I do think it would be easier to count if they're listed next to each other.
VOTE: NO P001
VOTE: NO P003
VOTE: NO P005
VOTE: YES P013- Aronis
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Representatives, I present to you my first bill proposal. I think it offers many great benefits for our society and I urge you to pass it. I am spoilering it because it is kind of long.
Spoiler: P016
I think a currency would be really helpful and I think this is the currency to do it. I am willing to modify this bill as needed to get it passed. I don't have to be the chair, I just didn't want to stick Inferno/skitter with added responsibility if they don't want it. I'm also willing to change salary/allowance amounts if they are perceived as too high/low.
Obviously I VOTE: YES P016- skitter30
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VOTE: yea p003
VOTE: yea p004
VOTE: yea p007ShowHiatus once more.
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VOTE: yea p0013
i feel like 510 charletons is a very large number; like to the point that 5 charleton fine for an infraction will mean rather little in comparision
i like the notion of charletons; i just think the amounts need some work
going to do vcs nowShowHiatus once more.
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
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VOTE: yes to p013
P017, Proxy Voting
You may give your vote for specified proposals to another active player using the HEAL: playername and proposal tags. You may also remove this right using the HURT: playername and proposal tags. You may not delegate your one vote to multiple different players. Players you have delegated your vote to may give their votes and your votes to another delegated player.- Inferno390
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So just to be aware, I myself cannot amend this proposal as far as I'm aware. These are just suggestions. I did miss a couple of grammar things, but those can be ironed out before it is passed.In post 57, Aronis wrote: I fully support a currency, but there are issues with this current bill. For one, I believe we should take the utmost care in phrasing our rules to make sense. As such, I cannot support a bill using inadequate grammar such as 'be given with'. I also do not support a bill that limits the creation of other currencies. Needlessly restricting ourselves to one fiat currency this early in the game is begging for an autocracy. This is why I will be proposing my own currency in due time.
I'm not sure why motions aren't self explanatory. A player can only perform a motion if a rule says they can. All other motions are invalid. I'm not sure what you mean by "one bill passes and the other doesn't" either. This is all wrapped up in one proposal and doesn't function off of any other function. Obviously if you don't want motions, you don't want rules that create them either.In post 57, Aronis wrote: I also love the addition of motions, but I cannot pass an unclear bill. I think the specific bill you are passing needs to be self-explanatory. Stating that only certain players are able to create motions and not giving a clear definition of who that is within the specific bill is a big mistake. What happens if one bill passes and the other doesn't? We'd be left with a mess of a law on our hands.
I'm not inherently opposed to any of these bills regarding motions, turns, etc. But I need them to be grouped together, I feel like the current way they are arranged is sloppy lawmaking.
that's why it's only specifically to clear up proposal numbers.In post 57, Aronis wrote: I personally support individuals rights to edit their post, but I understand how and why that could be problematic. I'm not sure which way I will vote on this bill.
This can be reworded to their.In post 57, Aronis wrote: I am also unsure about allowing players to retract proposals. I do adamantly believe we should use gender-inclusive language in our bills. I would request this be reworded before I consider a vote in affirmation.
VOTE: Nay P016
This is far too complicated for trying to get the ball rolling on the game. We don't need this right now, and it clearly has some flaws. I'd rather get all the details of the game ironed out before we start adding new mechanics.
P018: A player who creates a proposal controls that proposal. The controlling player may alter their proposal at any time before it is passed. Players may not alter the proposals they do not control, but they met suggest changes that can be adopted by the controlling player.
This hasn't been addressed in the rules yet, so I think it should be.
Once we have the main rules hammered down, I have an idea for commitees that I'm going propose. But let's get all our I's dotted first."Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL
“Does anyone know if Inferno is prone to going of on huge tangents of twisted logic regarding basically alignment neutral posting? Asking for a friend ...”—MagnaofIllusion
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VOTE: Nay P017"Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL
“Does anyone know if Inferno is prone to going of on huge tangents of twisted logic regarding basically alignment neutral posting? Asking for a friend ...”—MagnaofIllusion
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True. I will alter P018 to add: "Whenever an alteration is made to a proposal, the new form of that proposal must be posted in the thread and all votes on it are reset, except for the controlling player's vote."
Also, for P015:
A player may retract their proposal at any time. When this occurs it does not go into effect and cannot be voted on any longer.
VC is currently:
P003: 5 Yea, 1 Nay
P005: 3 Yea, 2 Nay
P001: 2 Nay
P007: 3 Yea, 1 Nay
P006: 1 Yea, 1 Nay
P008: 1 Yea
P009: 1 Yea
P010: 1 Yea
P011: 1 Yea
P012: 1 Yea
P013: 3 Yea
P014: 1 Yea
P015: 1 Yea
P016: 1 Yea, 2 Nay
P017: 1 Nay
P018: 1 Yea
P003 passes. I'll add those amendments and add the VC to the wiki."Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL
“Does anyone know if Inferno is prone to going of on huge tangents of twisted logic regarding basically alignment neutral posting? Asking for a friend ...”—MagnaofIllusion
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Forgot to add your auto Yea to P017, Oka. The Wiki does have the proper vote count as far as I'm aware because I caught it., but i can't go back to edit it here."Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL
“Does anyone know if Inferno is prone to going of on huge tangents of twisted logic regarding basically alignment neutral posting? Asking for a friend ...”—MagnaofIllusion
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oh i just updated the wiki with a vc too, didn't see urs till afterShowHiatus once more.
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Nah that works
Having one for just a general feel of where all proposals stands is good alongside one that tells who's voting what on individual ones."Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL
“Does anyone know if Inferno is prone to going of on huge tangents of twisted logic regarding basically alignment neutral posting? Asking for a friend ...”—MagnaofIllusion
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Wow this blew up fast.
VOTE: P001: Nay
It bans other currencies, which could concievably become a problem.
VOTE: P008: Yea
I imagine this would be used for one-time effects, which distinguish motions from normal proposals.
VOTE: P009: Nay
This doesn't forbid players from making proposals during other people's turns, which appears to be the intent.
VOTE: P010: Yea
This is simple but might become useful at some point. No obvious drawbacks.
VOTE: P011: Nay
Ah, I see. This supports P009. I don't really like the idea of restricting proposals in this way, though.
VOTE: P012: Nay
This relies on P011, which I'm against.
VOTE: P013: Yea [hammer]
lol how did we miss this.
VOTE: P014: Yea
Again, beneficial procedurally, and no obvious drawbacks.
VOTE: P015: Nay
I feel like this could turn in to a bad Nomic version of hammertesting.
VOTE: P016: Nay
510 at first, but you only lose 5 for breaking the rules, and you get 51 per week? You can afford to break the rules daily and still turn a profit.
VOTE: P017: Nay
I have a different idea for implementing a similar system, outlined in my next non-voting focused post.
VOTE: P0018: Yea
The resetting of votes makes this reasonable.ShowTown: 6-5
Scum: 2-1
3p: 0-1
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P0019: Any group of players may, at any time, declare themselves a COALITION. The CHAIR of said coalition must post the name of the coalition in the thread, as well as all players who are part of it. All listed players must confirm that they are part of this coalition. Once they do, the coalition is official, and can determine its own rules and regulations to be followed by its members. The chair of a coalition may exercise any ex officio right granted to him by a proposal.
P0020: If permitted, either conditionally or otherwise, by the rules of his coalition, the chair of a coalition may exercise some or all of the votes delegated by members of his coalition. If the chair does so, the players whose votes are delegated are treated as if they themselves had voted in the standard way. Any vote delegated to a chair may be changed by the delegating player at will.
Commentary:
This allows official groups to form, and lets people give their votes to other people. The player can even change their vote if they disagree with the chair's decision.ShowTown: 6-5
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It makes future modifications possible, such as other rights for chairs. It achieves a similar goal as yours (maybe even the same if someone created a coalition where the only rule was identical to your proposition), but allows for more generalization.In post 73, OkaPoka wrote:point of recognizing groups officially?ShowTown: 6-5
Scum: 2-1
3p: 0-1
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