Micro 887: the coaLITion [game over]

[EspressoPatronum]

@EP
What’s your take on LUV, post-NC 39’s observation about how consensus seems to be that LUV is scum?

NC raises an interesting point, but I'm not comfortable enough with it to put LUV in my coalition.

First, I want active people in my coalition so I have a better chance at correctly sorting them. Putting LUV in because of inactivity and everyone else's behaviour seems backwards.

Second, all of my previous thoughts on LUV still apply. If we consider LUV's universal scum read ("USR") as a town factor in reading him, I'm still left with:

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

LUV, for

two

three

four reasons:
1. The lurking
2. I didn't like his early posts
3. I don't like his recent posts
4. I don't like the OMGUS vote

To expand:

1. My experience thus far has scum lurks surprisingly often. I even advocate for lurker policy lynches in most of my games bcz of how often I've seen scum skate by under the radar by lurking.

2. He wasn't helpful early. Telling us to ignore the mechanics of the game was anti-town. His early RC tr looks like he was trying to avoid attention. Alchemist gave a meta reason for his read, but I recall LUV leaving the TR without any reasons.

3. I disagreed with most of his catch-up posts. I also think that anyone touting a 'low activity' meta for town is doing a disservice to everyone else playing.

4. He again provided no reasons for what he was doing. I'm not even sure if OMGUS is scum indicative, but it's not a good look either way.

[EspressoPatronum]

I'm not as sure about my Gamma read anymore. I'll revisit it tonight.

@Gamma, if you get the chance today, could you link me some of your scum games?

[Spangled]

HEAL: Spangled, EspressoPatronum, RC most awesomest, YOUAREGREAT, NC 39
I am going to be so bloody paranoid if this fails, and it’s absolutely open to change, but for now this feels pretty decent.

[EspressoPatronum]

I'm not as sure about my Gamma read anymore. I'll revisit it tonight.

@Gamma, if you get the chance today, could you link me some of your scum games?

Nvm. I thought for a moment that maybe Gamma doesn't post very much as scum (he was a middle poster in nsg's coalition game), but I don't think that's right. He was top 3 in posts as scum in Pokemon Fusion U-Pick.

[Gamma Emerald]

Lmao.

“If Alchemist is Townreading anyone it’s appeasement you guys.”

Fuck outta here with that bs. You’re coming up with any reason to scumread me because you don’t like that I’m scumreading you.

if people want me to paint an Alchemist!scum that i don't actually believe, i can do that though

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not as sure about my Gamma read anymore. I'll revisit it tonight.

@Gamma, if you get the chance today, could you link me some of your scum games?

Still want this?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

sky give extension

-nsg

This plz
The short deadline kinda makes forming a decent coalition hard. Even if we just get an extended D1 deadline I'll be happy

The bitching about the deadline is annoying. The coalition is not isn’t the be all end all. I’d be pissed as scum right now if Sky granted this.

LUV is still scum.

RC is town.

HURT: LUV

HEAL: RC

not a big fan of Gamma randomly trying to apply pressure to me.

Don't like how Alchem is ignoring me as I think that often comes from scum.

And still, dislike Spangled.

but thats too many scum reads. So I'm wrong on 2 of those 4.

HEAL: RC most awesomest, Hectic, EspressoPatronum, NC 39 is a rock-solid coalition but I'm hesitant to add Clemency as some of his posts pinged me earlier.

So basically, who are the other town between Clem, Gamma, Alchem, and Spangled and I guess LUV in case I'm wrong but I don't think I am?

Nancy you can’t read me and Nero you always scum read me. I’m not scum here and I think if I was I would probably be a lot more active and playing like EP.

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

LUV can you elaborate on your EP read?

The poor reasoning.

Lurking isn’t AI. I know there are many players like EP who think it is but until he can tell me how I’m manipulating the game state in my favor by intentional doing it, that point is basically invalid. I’d argue that it’s obvious I’m town lurking here because I do not care that people notice. I mean I’ve been prodded like 3 times already. I’d also argue that it’s obvious because a simple glance at my other ongoing games would show that my lurking here is out of disinterest and laziness. There is also real life constraints and play style quirks that he’s failing to acknowledge as well.

When I signed up for this game I didn’t think there was going to be an insane amount of focus on winning Day 1. I actually thought we would just scum hunt normally and once we have decided on a lynch together, put the towniest people in a coalition and hope for the best. I don’t think having this belief or approach makes me scum.

He calls my reads weak but never attempts to ask me about them. Not once did he ask me to expand.

[Alchemist21]

Lmao.

“If Alchemist is Townreading anyone it’s appeasement you guys.”

Fuck outta here with that bs. You’re coming up with any reason to scumread me because you don’t like that I’m scumreading you.

if people want me to paint an Alchemist!scum that i don't actually believe, i can do that though

Last line in his post has him saying he’s convincing himself. He’s going OMGUS here.

Also, that was a really Towny post from LUV imo. I don’t agree with his EP read but his defense is in-line with the posts he’s made since his entrance and I think that really is the sentiment disengaged Town would have here.

[EspressoPatronum]

[..]
Lurking isn’t AI. I know there are many players like EP who think it is but until he can tell me how I’m manipulating the game state in my favor by intentional doing it, that point is basically invalid. [...]

You said the same thing in Ruby Mafia about my lurker post. Plot twist - 2 of the 4 lurkers in that game were scum! Not ALL lurkers are mafia, but I would say there's a greater than random chance of lurkers being scum.

As stated to you in Ruby Mafia, the scum team doesn't have just 1 objective. Some manipulate the game state while others try to make it to the end game. Lurker is a means of achieving the latter.

[..]
He calls my reads weak but never attempts to ask me about them. Not once did he ask me to expand.

Or you could be proactive and expand on your reads without being asked.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Didn’t town end up winning that game?

[EspressoPatronum]

@Alch who's your fifth btw? I did a quick check and I think you're at Alch, RCMA, NC and EP.

@Spangled can you tell me more about your GREAT addition? Who would you consider swapping for the 5th position + who are you deadset on not including?

@RCMA what does your updated coalition look like?

@Hectic if you were forced to not include yourself in the coalition, who would you pick?

[EspressoPatronum]

Didn’t town end up winning that game?

Yeah, we clutched it out on mechanics.

One of the lurkers subbed out + we caught the other one bcz of his lurking and a few other things.

[EspressoPatronum]

I'm not as sure about my Gamma read anymore. I'll revisit it tonight.

@Gamma, if you get the chance today, could you link me some of your scum games?

Still want this?

Yes plz.

I tried doing it myself, but you've played a ton of games + I didn't feel like sifting through all of them. I called it quits after like 4 games

[Alchemist21]

Alch who's your fifth btw? I did a quick check and I think you're at Alch, RCMA, NC and EP.

I don’t have an official 5th yet. It’s going to be either Spangled or Luv.

[Spangled]

So I’ve been thinking about this, and around his Alch case, Hectic goes ‘oh I actually don’t scumread him despite voting him, but I’ll scumcase him anyway’.
Makes a pretty rubbish, OMGUS-y case — it raised some occasional okay points, but it has a shadow of ‘townreads without reasons are scum!appeasement’ all over it, which really makes no sense.
‘Oh, I scumread them now, actually, look at that; how nicely have I backed up my previous action without explaining it’.

This looks like an attempt to gain towncred by ‘reconsidering’ your read on someone; notice the interesting timing — I had just stated that I townread how Gamma and NC 39 were re-reading (reconsidering) some of their reads and then Hectic tries to cash in on it, just after.

This is t/s, I think. Could be s/s, but I sort of doubt that, especially with Alch’s incredulous-sounding reaction in his responding post — although I can see it being scum theater, but I’m quite doubtful on that — although a Hectic scumflip should not clear Alch, and a Hectic townflip should not conf!town Alch, far from it. I’m leaning scum being Hectic, here, and thus I will VOTE: Hectic

I do feel a bit paranoid on him, and I feel like Hectic has displayed at least a little bit of basic towniness for a while — like his analysis of EP just before his rubbish case — so I could be persuaded elsewhere if people have reasons; I’m not going to lock Hectic as scum and deathtunnel (although I am comfortable leaving my vote there, for sure), but I’d love a defence from you, Hectic, especially about that case on Alch — because by and large, it sucked.

[Spangled]

@Spangled can you tell me more about your GREAT addition? Who would you consider swapping for the 5th position + who are you deadset on not including?

I did a GREAT towncase a bit ago; it’s here; I’m not going to quote it because it was a bit of a wallpost, but it sums up my thoughts on how towny GREAT has been so far.

Um, I didn’t really order that coalition in any particular order besides the order in which I remembered people — but as to who I’m deadset on not including, that’d be Alch and Hectic, pretty much.

People I’d consider swapping — I’ll be bluntly honest, you and NC 39 could both go, for Gamma potentially and

maybe

for LUV; I quite liked 481, because we have had a pretty insane amount of focus on getting the right coalition, and people win 9p mountainous. That’s the truth; they do it. Sometimes even without scumlynches D1
I know it’s incredible, but it happens.

[Spangled]

@mod
Sorry if you know this already (and you probably do7, but I think RCMA needs a prod

.

[Spangled]

The more it went on the more it seemed to me that NC 39/Gamma interaction was T/S. Gamma being willing to reconsider makes them look better but at this point I think I’m pretty confident in calling NC 39 Town.

HEAL: NC 39

Can you talk about this, Alchemist?
You say that NC 39/Gamma is t/s, but then that Gamma is looking better, but then that NC 39 is town? I don’t know about you, but that seems like a contradiction in terms. Am I missing something here?

[Spangled]

@LUV
Got any scumreads besides EP? Maybe sort of an idea of what coalition you might make?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I wish I could tell who has been mostly posting from the NC 39 hydra because I would have more of a read of my own there. I definitely don’t want them in though because I’ve been feeling the same way you and Great have been about them.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Gamma could be scum but I’m not sure if I’m just annoyed at him still voting me.

[NC 39]

@Spangled, if you’re now tr LUV and since I was the one who first expressed concern over all of the sr on him, I really don’t understand your recent thought process on this.

Also @LUV are you planning on creating a coalition yourself and if so, who would you put into it.

I am not at all rigid wrt to my coalition choices but with the deadline close approaching, we need no less than 5 people to be in sync on 5 players.

I really don’t understand how you’re so solid on GREAT.

As for Gamma, ISO’d a few of their scumgames and I didn’t see this kind of re-evaluation in any of them. His play has been extremely baffling to me but that did read sincere to me, so I honestly don’t know what to think about it.

I really hope that RCMA aren’t repping out, we really need their input, so it’s so close to the deadline and it doesn’t look like we’re any closer to a consensus.

I know and am willing to change my coalition picks, in order to get it passed, because rn, it’s not looking like it’s even happening.

[NC 39]

I wish I could tell who has been mostly posting from the NC 39 hydra because I would have more of a read of my own there. I definitely don’t want them in though because I’ve been feeling the same way you and Great have been about them.

Which is what exactly?

This is Nancy btw.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I have had a kind of weird scum-gut-read for a while on NC 39 because of occasionally abrasive interaction with me, but I looked over both my and their ISO and I’m pretty sure that I have been equally at fault in my abrasiveness — see my previous post for an example, actually, now that I think about it — toward them, and I feel like it’s a kind of semi-instinctive OMGUS that I should

probably

ignore.

not a fan of this post. so far, NC's gameplay feels like it's a lot of style over substance. he outs a lot of reads and fronts confidently but i don't really get the impression there's much of a genuine thought process behind his play. i like his pressure on alchemist, but it feels like he's too eager to catch him in a "gotcha" moment.

same with him writing off gamma's sr on him as "weak accusations". it feels like his default mode is defensive and afraid

[NC 39]

VC 1.12 Coalitions: Hectic (5): EspressoPatronum, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest, Spangled EspressoPatronum (5): EspressoPatronum, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest, Spangled NC 39 (4): EspressoPatronum, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest Alchemist21 (3): Alchemist21, EspressoPatronum, RC most awesomest Gamma Emerald (2): Gamma Emerald, RC most awesomest RC most awesomest (2): RC most awesomest, Alchemist21 YOUAREGREAT (0): Lil Uzi Vert (0): Spangled (0): Lynch: Lil Uzi Vert (2): Gamma Emerald, EspressoPatronum Spangled (1): RC most awesomest Alchemist21 (1): Hectic EspressoPatronum (1): Lil Uzi Vert Hectic (1): YOUAREGREAT Not Voting (3): NC 39, Spangled, Alchemist21 With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-12 18:00:00).

Serious question @LUV. You were the one who complained about the extension and with a little over 3 days to go, you arbitrarily shade us w/o giving any reasons, yet don’t propose your own coalition and this is concerning since RCMA correctly pointed out the extreme importance of the mechanic you are - for God knows what reasons - so dismissive of.